Drama Queens - Number 23 • EP418 Part 1 with James Lafferty

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Ladies and gentlemen, your Tree Hill Ravens star basketball player, number 23… Nathan Scott!  James and the Drama Queens discuss Nathan’s character evolution and what it was like for James, starting on OTH at just 17 years old, but being Nathan Scott to the world. Plus, James tackles your burning questions!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. queens ladies it's the only boy that i think kissed all of us on the show honestly i can't think of anyone else that had that pleasure um i think you're right what a gentleman here he is we're talking

about you james what's going on yes good to see you too you look great we were just making the point that you're the only boy in the history of the show that kissed all three of us. Really? Mm-hmm. Interesting. Because Lucas never kissed Haley. Is there like empirical evidence to back this up?

We have a tally going? Listen, we've got a fan army. We've watched so, so many episodes. That's where it is. Yeah. Kudos to y'all as well for, you know, getting this far into the whole show and everything. Like, I was watching the episode last night and it's not lost on me how many episodes it

takes just to get here, let alone how many you have ahead of you. Well, wait, how many times have you seen episodes since you wrapped? I mean, I can't imagine you sat there and watched SoapNet, you know? I did. That's your guilty pleasure. James at home with a mac and cheese. Watch the whole episode to One Trio. Damn it, you got me.

Yeah. No, I think the last time I watched a full episode was probably around the time we were doing the um crowdfunding campaign um and you guys helped us out and came and watched episodes with us um you know that was and that was a trip i mean even back then i mean that was 2018 i think or maybe even 2017 so that was that was a long time ago now um and so you know watching it last night it's even further away further in the rear view um no recollection of shooting those scenes uh really i think that the standout. I mean, there was a couple of scenes that I definitely remembered, but for the most part, yeah, for the most part, I was like really, I'm glad that the episode had a recap at the beginning because I really had no idea what was going on. Yeah, the recaps are helpful. Okay, wait, I have a question because we talk about this a lot on the show that there are certain episodes where similarly to what you just said, we're all going, we did what? I don't remember that. No idea. And there's these scenes that you're not only going, oh, I remember filming that, but it's, It's like you get, you get like a, it's like a muscle memory, you know, that feeling like in your core.

Were there, were there scenes from 418 that you felt that way about? Or were you just surprised by the whole thing? Yeah, yeah, there was one. It was the, well, I guess it was like the last scene for Nathan and Haley where I think it kicked, did it kick off the CODA where, you know, Nathan is giving a little press conference at high school. and that scene I remember well yeah everything leading up to it like not a lot of yeah don't really remember shooting that stuff

but for whatever reason I remember that scene probably because it took some some preparation it was like a little bit of a monologue a little bit of a monologue it was huge I mean I don't know I just remember being like going into that day feeling a little bit and it's rare that this happened feeling a little

little bit of what Nathan must have been feeling being like, oh, man, I really don't want this dream to be over for him, you know, like he's going to Duke. At that time, I was watching a lot of college basketball. I loved Duke. It was like so cool that Nathan was going to Duke or, you know, that prospect was there. And, and, you know, I remember being like really impressed with, with what he was doing and owning up to it. It was cool to see sort of like shades of the adult that he might become. But at the same time, I remember just being like, I hope he can, I hope he can get this opportunity back you know um so so yeah that that one that one stood out as something that i definitely remembered i have no recollection of standing at your side shooting that scene none whatsoever do you think

you were just standing there like writing a song in your head or something probably i just drifted off it's one of the funniest things about about doing this show is is watching back and being like so surprised at the things that i remember and the things that i don't things that you think would be so monumental and I have no recollection and then others that I'm like why that scene is such a nothing scene why do I still smell the sheets in the wallpaper you know like what the heck yeah well widen out for a little bit like what do you remember James of you know the nine years you spent on the show what are some of the first episodes that float back for you I think it was probably around this season seasons one through three for whatever reason are are really a blur for me I don't

know why. Because you were a child, your frontal lobe was still forming. Yeah. You were little. I was still, yeah, I was still learning to catch the experiences and turn them into memories. Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's what it was. I mean, I think around season four, you know, I remember the final episode of season four really well, the state championship game and all that.

That was, that was really, really fun and kind of a monumental experience. in my life to be able to play in NC State's gym and, you know, everyone was out there. We all, like, traveled to go, you know, stay out there for a couple days. And it was just a really, really awesome experience. And then after that, you know, ironically, I guess once, like, the characters made the jump into adulthood, maybe I was doing the same. And I just remember a lot more from those years. Right.

Yeah. I remember you started, like, coming out more in town during those years. like you either you turn 21 or you had a really good fake idea at that point but like all of a sudden like life was imitating art we were all moving as a pack in town in a you know in a different way yeah yeah 100% I think I came out of my shell a little bit as as time went on and just got a little bit more comfortable in my own skin you know it definitely helped to not have to that was the thing about going out in Wilmington is like I couldn't really roll around with a fake ID because it was a small town and we were on one tree hill so that was kind of pointless so I had to

like pick my spots from like 18 to 21 I had like there's like a few places that would let me in back door yes a small town it's hard to get away with stuff yeah yeah but then but then once I turn 21 I could go wherever wherever you guys went so it was a lot easier yeah I wonder too like that that that you were experiencing going from being a literal teenager to an adult as we all were doing that on the show like I mean we were playing teens but you literally started as a teen um I wonder about it because talking about how the first couple seasons are a blur we've spoken a lot um and I always wonder I'm like do they know like when we when we shower you or any of the other guys with compliments on this show I'm like does everyone just tweet our quotes at them like do they have any idea so just

in case they don't. We've talked so much about watching Nathan's evolution and especially like you, you in this season begin having this like deeper sort of stoic like poignance to your performance. And I wonder, do you think it was because you said it? Do you think it was because Nathan is finding himself in a way where we're starting to foreshadow the man that he grows into? Or were the storylines just that poignant for you, you know, thinking about this kid settling down and getting ready to be a dad? Like, was it a little life-imitating art? Or was it really just that you were getting so much good stuff off the page that it made it extra special for you as an actor? Yeah, yeah, probably the latter there. I think around this season, if I remember

correctly you know there was like things were getting pretty real uh for nathan you know um i mean you know there there were the there were the storylines where you know i'm about to get kneecapped by rick fox you know which is like a little out there did you love that james dude i was so stoked about that i mean it was rick fox go on i was a real belakers fan um but you know and that stuff was that stuff was great in itself you know um but i i really i really gravitated towards I think being able to have those moments, like at the end of episode 418, where, you know, there's a tough decision to make. And you actually see Nathan making a good decision. And, you know, over time, he's making more and more good decisions.

And so, you know, yeah, I took that seriously. And I thought it was great. And I think in a way I was, I was, you know, learning from it as well, you know, those lessons and things. But it just felt really good to be able to play that. character that made that evolution and see it come to fruition in those ways. You know, it's like, yeah, sure, you want to see him go to Duke. But, you know, even at 21, I understood that the bigger thing here, the more important thing here was that he was doing the right thing. And so, you know, that sunk in. That resonated with me. There's something, we've gotten this

question and all of us have answered it and a lot of our guests have answered it. But we haven't had a chance to talk with you. Can you just tell us a little bit about how you got started on this show, like what your audition process was like and how this whole job came about for you? Yeah. How much time do we have? Yeah, yeah. Plenty of time, honey. Plenty of time in the world. Yeah, yeah. So I was like 17. I had done a few projects. I had done a couple pilots and things. you know, I was a senior in high school and I wasn't, I wasn't too stoked on continuing

acting. I'd been doing it since I was like six, seven years old and I really loved it, but you know, it's tough. There's a lot of rejection. And I wasn't an adult yet. I didn't really know how to deal with that rejection. I was just sort of tired of it by the time I was 17. And so yeah, then one day this script came like through the pipeline or whatever. It was mail. to me by UPS or however it happened back. We used to get hard copies. Back when it was called Ravens. Oh my God. Yeah, it was called Ravens.

And I remember reading it and just being like, all right, I got to like give this one a shot. This one's special and just like, you know, I was such a, I just love basketball so much and I have a brother and I love the, I grew up in a small

town. There was so much about it that resonated. So I went and read for Lucas. I didn't get Lucas. And then I went and read for Nathan. And I went through a series of auditions for Nathan. At a certain point in the audition process, it got through to me through like back channels that like I wasn't. I was like, I was too nice.

I was not hard enough like to be this guy. But they liked me. And by the way, this is like me and my mom. Like my mom's with me in Los Angeles as I'm like auditioning for this thing. And I think it was actually my mom. And it was like, look, if you want this, you got to go to your acting coach. You got to take a session and, like, take this seriously. If you're going to do it, like, do it right.

So I went to my acting coach and we worked it the night before the test. I think I tested like five times. Jesus. Whoa. Really? Yeah, yeah. It was like five different appointments over a few days. It was like...

Did you have chemistry tests with that? Or was it just your... It was just like me and one other actor, like going into a room on the Warner Brothers lot. And, like, just reading for the same five people, like, over and over again over the course of, like, two days. Did they give you notes every time? It was like, go home and try it, like, work on it this way and then come back and do it differently. I don't think so. Five times.

How does that work? You know what? They were doing the asshole test. They were doing the total test to see which kid was going to flake first. You didn't flake, Lafferty. Is that why they do that? Is that honestly? Think about our job, though.

You've got to do the same thing over and over again. There's a level of endurance that you have to have in television that you don't have to have in film. Like pushing someone to their breaking point. Yeah, you got to want it too. Yeah, you wanted it. I wonder if there was anything going on with those executives in the room who were like, we got to hire someone who's a really convincing asshole.

Let's make sure in real life he's not a dick. Because if he is, it's going to be a nightmare. You know, like, I feel. like there's a little bit of that too. Like we're actively asking people to come in here and be awful, you know, season one, episode one, Nathan Scott. So maybe we should just keep bringing him in here and see if they're actually nice. They hazed you, bro. I feel like all those reasons are valid. Like now that you've mentioned all those reasons, I'm like, it's probably a good thing they brought me in five times to make sure I could do the job. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I think

the last step to the process was Brian Robbins having me and this other actor go to his house and play him one-on-one in his backyard. Wait, so the guy that you were up against? Yeah, yeah. Who was really awesome,

really, really awesome, by the way. His name is Riley, and he's just like, he's older than me. And he was, I think he was like, I don't know, he must have been like in his early 20s at the time, but he was just like, You couldn't ask for a better actor to be testing against when you're like a teenager.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It was more of like us too, just sort of like we didn't feel like we were going after the same project. It just sort of felt like we were both there just like in it sort of together, which I thought was really cool. And he could ball for sure. And I was not playing very hard. And Brian Robbins, like, I think he scored a couple points on me. And he pulled me aside and he was like, if you want this job, you're going to have to play.

I was like, okay. And so I started playing and it went, it went better for me after that. And then, yeah, and then it was just like, go home and wait to find out if you got the job. And, yeah, the rest is history. So did you have any idea at that point, you know you've got to go work it to kind of get in the headspace? You know you've got a ball hard. Did you have any idea past who Nathan was in the pilot? did they give you any inkling of who he would become,

that he would have this sort of, you know, generational fork in the road and he could either become his dad or go the opposite way. Did you know he was going to get married in high school? Like, did they tell you anything? Or was it all a surprise once the show got picked up? I didn't really, yeah, it was all kind of a surprise, to be honest. And I didn't think about it that much. Like, I don't remember being that concerned with it.

um because i was like just kind of i was having so much fun playing this asshole of a kid i was like he makes a great villain so if i got to be the villain you know i was kind of fine with it i wasn't look i wasn't thinking things through quite as much back then again i was so young i was just kind of stoked to be there um but i remember getting like you know some assurances here and there that like you know this is not this is not who this character is like this character isn't going to like end up dead in a ditch somewhere as he gets his come up. And, you know, there's like an evolution for this character. And just thinking like, cool, great.

Wow. Right. I mean, when we went out to shoot the pilot, you were still in school. And you were the only one of us that was still in school. And so I remember talking about like, what are you going to do for prom? What are you going to do for graduation? because it was all, like, it hadn't happened for you yet. And the rest of us were 20, 21, looking at it in the rearview mirror.

And so it was great to have your energy there because you were still pumped about that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Did you just feel like you never left high school for, I mean, 15 years? Still feels like that, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't it? Yeah, no. I mean, I call, I think, yeah, I call.

yeah, I called and asked my prom date out from Wilmington because I could, I was like, I missed that time to like ask your prom date out. I was like, well, I got to make some phone calls, man. But, but yeah, it was, it was, I guess it was, yeah, it was strange. But the thing about like the show was we shot on a college campus and like everyone was a little bit older, even like, you know, background were a little bit older. Like, we weren't really surrounded by a high school kid. So, you know, and then when we're like shooting on a high school set and the classroom scenes trip me out a little bit. Like, I didn't like the classroom scenes

because I was, I didn't want to be in class, period. I don't like to be in class. But the rest of it was separated enough from reality that I didn't really feel like I was, uh, I was stuck in high school for too long. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember the day when we got the red pages that Nathan and Haley were getting married? I do remember that. I do, because I remember the red pages and being like, what the hell is going on?

I've never seen red pages. Well, our trailers were attached. Because we were in so many scenes together, obviously, that whenever you, for those of you listening, they tend to put actors in, they're called a double banger and it's one side one side is one actor and the other side is the other actor and um they will put you in with people that you usually work with a lot so um james

and i had shared a double banger and um yeah i remember like busting out of my trailer door and you happened to be walking out too this and i just remember being like do what did you see this this is crazy yeah very did you know it was coming no no no i had no i had no idea. I had no idea it was coming. Um, again, I remember having like a delayed reaction. I think I remember being like, because, you know, from, I feel like the makeup trailer is like the nerve center of the whole set, right? And so it's like, hey quarters. Like I process, especially at the time, I really process things as they happen. I sort of like learned to react to things based on how

other people reacted to them. And so like, I remember going into the makeup trailer and being like, oh, shit, this is a big deal, I guess. Like, this is, whoa. Like, people are really freaking out. They worked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny. I guess that's why they're red pages.

But also, like, from a, from a boy's point of view, you know, you've got this narrative of, like, high school romance. And for the girls, it's very romanticized. It's like, Nathan sweeps her off her feet and says all the right things and all of that. Like, as a boy, you get a storyline where, your teenage boy character now has to be married in high school. Like, what's your take on that? Did you know any married people in high school?

I don't know. No, I didn't. But I did grow up in a small town. And to me, it wasn't like, I don't, yeah, to me, it wouldn't have been that far removed. It wouldn't that crazy of a thing to do because. knew plenty of people that got married like the year after high school was out, you know? Yeah. I mean, it was still pretty wild.

I think at the time, were our characters like sophomores or juniors or something? Juniors. Junior's. Oh, my God. I mean, that was like, that was definitely, you know, extraordinary. 16 and married. You guys, that's three years out from where my son is. Like, if, oh, wow.

Oh, God. Gross. Three, oh, wow. yeah yeah yeah and from a modern perspective yeah I mean the further and further away we get from it I like I don't even know if that story would track today you know like I don't even know how many people it was it was pretty pretty outrageous when it happened back then but I think now it just be like what you know but but yeah I mean I was I just thought it was an exciting step because I don't think I necessarily like knew that it was going to go well you know like I I certainly didn't know that it was going to be, you know, the characters would be married throughout the duration of the show. And so, like, I feel like to me, it was just kind of like, okay, well, let's see where, see where this goes. Like, I don't know if this is a cautionary tale or it has a happy ending, you know? Like, you know what struck me watching you guys

play those scenes in this episode today. And it is interesting. Like, we have such good hindsight now, right? You look back and you go, well, these are the things I weren't thinking about. And These are the questions I'd ask today. And, oh, my God, we were all a bunch of idiots. How did we survive? But I was watching you to do those scenes talking about the point shaving in your future and getting ready for a kid and all the things. And I think one of the things I realize as an adult who's had to, you know, do the work, we talk so much about therapy on this show. As adults who have had to, like, go and do the work and learn things and to learn to communicate really well, especially.

you know, if you were raised in an environment where that wasn't modeled for you. One of the things I love watching Nathan and Haley do is communicate so well. What you guys modeled in terms of the way that you would share and be vulnerable and learn that there was safety and that vulnerability with your partner. I was like, God, they are better at this than a lot of people, R-age. Yeah. It's so cool. Like, you guys got to go on this journey. and I think it's seeing that kind of communication and that love between two people

that's probably why all the fans are so diehard because it is inspiring. Like what's crazy about that though is that it's so easy to do on camera, well especially like an actor like you, James, or somebody that you know you feel really comfortable with who's honest and good and like, you know, you can connect with. But it's it's so weird how it's so easy to do that on camera. and then in real life, when the stakes are actually high and real and your emotions for real, your heart for real is on the line. All the walls go up, everything shuts down.

I'm like, oh, I don't know how to do that. Never practice that before in my whole life. Yeah. Suddenly you're like, words are things for talking. They're just gone. It does really help when you have someone else writing the right words for you in that situation. I think like, yeah. Wouldn't that be fun?

Every time you have an argument with your partner, you're just like, can we call in our writer's room, please. You just like, tie this up for us. To that end, though, James, we've been doing this show and we've said over and over again that this is our therapy. Like, doing this podcast and looking back at this chunk of time in our life has been our therapy. But you created your own content, which feels kind of therapeutic as an outside observer,

the show that you and Stephen created. Like, tell our listeners about that, but also, I mean, I would love to know if it's been cathartic to kind of poke fun and analyze what our experience was through a creative process. Yeah. Well, no, thank you for bringing that up. And thank you for the question. I mean, it's like, the show is called Everyone is Doing Great. So really excited about that.

I love that show. I really genuinely love it. It's so good. Thank you, Joy. Yeah, it's been, it's been a really fun road. And, you know, it's an independent television show. So we pull it together with our little filmmaker family. And, you know, our friends and loved ones are in it and, you know, helping to make it happen.

And we did the same thing the second season. But it's basically about three actors that were on like a vampire diaries type show, which was like, you know, a mega success. And then they come off the show and, you know, it's like a late coming of age. It's like they were in this period of arrested development while they were on this show. they weren't really forced to they weren't really facing the real world and then they come out of the show and they're in their 30s and their you know life has not really turned out the way that they thought it was going to um and it's about them sort of dealing with those things in very very different ways but always being pulled back together um by this like shared history like they're the only ones that know the experience that they went through on that show and so those roots will always be there and they'll always be like pulling and it's it's really raw and and you know supposed to be funny supposed to make you laugh and feel good at the same time it's like very dry and awkward and it's just meant to just poke fun at all those little moments in life that we might feel horrifying at the time but you know when you

look back at it you know you might it might be a really funny story eventually right I mean it is so funny would you rip for real life like What was, when you left one tree hill and you're like, that's it, I'm done, starting this new chapter, but I got to make fun of this in my new show. Like, what was your, what was your punchline? What was the thing you had to hit? There was, I think it was, I think it was mostly like the, for my character, it was the, I guess like an expectation. that like life's just going to work out and that you know you can wait for good things to come to you that was something that I sort of that was a mindset that I had for a while coming out of the show was just like I mean it worked out for nine years why isn't it going to work out like what's a big deal

what's everybody's so worried about you know five years later you're like okay I'm bored like I'm really bored we got to get something going in It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who has.

with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare. and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's what you do so great on everyone is doing great, which I loved is that you take an experience that's so singular.

There's very few people who have the experience that we all had growing up as teenagers in early 20s on a TV show that lasted for so long and impacted our young life in that way. but you made it relatable so you're taking the same experience that seems so kind of bizarre that almost nobody has had this experience but when you watch the show you're still getting moments of lessons like what you're talking about in a really fun way where everybody no matter what career you're in can relate to the idea of like oh yeah you just have to like oh it worked out here so i guess i just wait and then you're like i'm still waiting oh wait i'm still waiting oh you've got take the bowl by the horns and get out there no thanks that's that's exactly what we We wanted people to, we wanted people to be able to grab onto it and we wanted it to have, you know, we wanted it to be relatable.

We didn't want it to be entourage. We wanted it to just be a story about like people, which is, you know, whatever. Yeah. We've, because everybody's been asked to do things that are embarrassing and I mean, oh my God, that's seen where Stephen has to do that audition. He has to like make out on the floor for an audition. Like, please tell me that was a real. Did that really happen? Well, and those were the other things that inspired us to do it.

You know, like there was like a broad sort of like. meta stuff that was like oh this is like the emotional reason for doing this but then there was just like the years and years of stories that we had yeah from this industry and situations that we found ourselves in um and and that was one of them that actually like that didn't happen that way to to Stephen but he had an experience that was similar in an audition and it was just like the greatest story that we ever had and we're like how is this not on camera somewhere how is somebody not already done this like we kind of i feel like the show wouldn't have have happened if it wasn't for him having that experience.

Oh my gosh. Oh, that's funny. Are you so scared of our old audition tapes coming to light one day? Because I think about auditions like that where we would have to pretend there was a monster or we would have. Oh. Yeah. Or pretend you had a gun. Oh, God. And like roll around on the floor like a Charlie's angel. Do you remember the horror film they did that all took place on the ski lift and you had to sit in a chair in the audition and like pretend that wolves were trying to bite your feet? Because Daniel and I were in that audition together. It's just like, I feel like Kaletti auditioned for that one too. But like that sense of absurdity,

someday's going to bite us in the ass, you guys. It's going to happen. Well, I hope it happens to all of us at once so that at least it's like we can all laugh about it together. That would be so special. How committed we are. I think that's why the show and what you guys have done with it, it gives me that feeling of like, oh, like what I don't know how to verse. verbalize that but when you just go oh god and it feels funny but also you can barf it's just so

intense yes exactly where you're like what is happening to me because it it is there's so much about what we do that is ridiculous and that's universal and a friend of mine is a writer and she wrote a really specific TV show and she said the best advice she ever got from her mentor is that the unique is universal and you guys have taken this very unique situation that very few people understand and like the nine years we all spent together and then you've put this comedic lens on it and it does I don't know why it just feels so universal everybody I know who's watched the show is like oh man that one got me or did you see that episode like who that stressed me out like it's just it's so funny so that's off cute it's really that's awesome that's I mean that's

exactly what we were going for I think I don't know I mean you you all have creative ventures sometimes like you're just you're inspired to go into something and you don't always know exactly what it is but you just know that you're like you're just compelled to do it and i guess because it's like trying something's trying to come out of you um and by the time we got to the end of that first season we had watched the episodes over and over and over again you know it was always we were always really concerned by the fact that it was industry adjacent or whatever and we just we didn't want it to feel too inside baseball um yeah but i remember after when the show was about about to come out being like I guess just realizing like okay we just made a show about life

like we just made a show about starting over at the end of the day and and hopefully people will see that so so I'm really yeah thank you guys how many of those did you direct are you guys are you guys taking turns directing that or are you on deck the whole time um the first season it was uh Stephen and I um I directed most of the episodes um and then Stephen directed one uh and then this season we really handed the like Steven's directing one of our producers Michelle Lang is directing another producer Johnny Durango is directing took my hands off the wheel there because you know acting and directing at the same time is always a challenge but with this we do a lot of it's it's kind of improv based we do the show based on like really

detailed outline so we we have a script but it's not really in script format um and and i think that we try to just encourage actors to like it's like you're reading the page of a novel and you're like okay here's all the information that i'm getting across but really it's like i'm i got to see the story in my head and i got to i got to tell the story the way that i would so oh my god james that's like the perfect hybrid of laguna beach and one tree hill you know what i mean because they would hand those kids outlines and be like and go you know yeah That's amazing. I mean, you know, Stephen, you know, we had that discussion while, you know, we were sort of like coming up with the format.

And this is not a totally original format, you know, like there are other filmmakers that do this and do it really, really well. And we were inspired by them. But, but, you know, I remember Stephen saying, you know, early on, like, this is like not far off from what Moody Beach was, you know, like. Wow. It's real. And so, yeah. And actually, our director of photographer. for the second season,

Gareth Cox, he's a director of photography for this show called Ciesta Key on MTV. My husband is obsessed with Ciasda Key. Obsessed. Oh, I love it.

Yeah, that's the one, right? It's basically Laguna Beach in the Florida Keys. Dude, JDM is a big fan of CESA Key. That's awesome. I love how much he loves

trashy reality show. Oh, God. I love it so much. Can you believe he's never watched ours? James, speaking of funny storylines, obviously we make a lot of fun of ourselves on this podcast, and your character has been through some wild adventures,

whether you're doing shit with Chris Keller or you're getting beat up by Rick Fox. Or the Russian mafia. Yeah, like what were the storylines for you that you look back on now as a grown-up and you're just like, oh, God. Yeah, I mean, was there anything you ever went in And you were like, really, really? Like, is there any way we can change them?

Yeah, I mean, there was a couple. You know, even some of the wilder stuff we did, you know, like the Rick Fox of it all or like, you know, being, you know, held hostage by Serbian gangsters. Like there was always something fun to find in there. And honestly, it always tested me the most. Like I found it much easier to, you know, you know play um you know an emotional scene with you joy then i did you know having to get emotional

and scenes like that because i'd never done like an action movie i'd never done a horror movie or anything like that like i'd never conjured up those emotions from a situation that you know is absurd on set right yeah you got like your challenge is to really make that real like it's it's not hard to make something real with you joy but it's hard to make something real you know with other situations. And so I always felt like going into those, I was nervous, but at the same time, it was like, all right, how are we going to do this? Like, how we got to make the audience believe this? And so, yeah. Well, and for our friends at home, one of the things when you reference why some of that stuff can be hard, you know, to your point, if you guys are shooting a scene as Nathan

and Haley, you're in close quarters, you're looking at each other, you get to react to what she's doing, she gets to react to what you're doing. One of the things people don't know, about, you know, the Rick Fox storyline, for example, is they'll do the crash, but they only do the crash in the wide shots, because there's one vehicle. And so you'll be on camera and you're close-up, and

they'll be like, someone's running by with a tennis ball on a C-stand for your eyeline, and then they go, and boom! And you're supposed to react, like, you're watching your wife get hit by a car, but there's nothing happening. And it's so insane. So the challenge to create

realism, you know, How big is your imagination? It's wild. Yeah, seriously. Yeah, that's the biggest challenge, I feel like. And then, you know, like, to use that as an example, you have the crash, which you're supposed to react to, and then they go around and they cover every single actor who's there reacting to it.

And then two hours later, you're still reacting to the crash that happened, you know, earlier in the day or whatever. It could be six hours later. And you're like, I'm still supposed to be working. Or you have no idea what the crash is going to look like. They just sort of give you an idea of it. But then you see the stunt that they do later and you're like, I would have had a way bigger reaction or way less, you know, I would have a way smaller reaction.

Yeah. Always great when they shoot the action last. God. So they're like, okay, react to the thing that's going to happen. And you're like, but I haven't seen it yet. You just have to make it up. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story. story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern

world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister? conspiracy. Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

James, we solicited for questions for this episode And we solicit for questions for all of our guests We've never had an avalanche like this before So we are going to do some rapid fire fan questions Oh boy Good idea Yeah, let's feel like you can just blow through them But I want to start

I peruse these I have a question that I need to ask Okay Listen, you always had strong little brother energy for me because I met you as like a child. But Marissa would love to know about your thoughts on your hair in season four.

Because when you showed up with long hair, that was the first time I was like, oh my God, James is like hot. James is like dangerous. Excellent hair. Dangerous, Lafferty. I have a note here. Hair question mark.

What? No question mark. No question mark. Hair exclamation point. Yeah. Loved it. wait is that what we're calling this episode hair exclamation point it was like suddenly i don't know what that was you know what i think it was it was i think they were growing my hair i was growing my hair

in anticipation for season five yeah when they were going to flash back and forth between when um i had like what was it they needed to show you know they needed to show that there was like a difference in the timelines and so oh and i was like i had really long hair because I had fall, you know, I was like in a wheelchair and I was not taking care of myself. And so, yeah, they, they decided that it was going to be easier. Oh, God. They didn't want to wig me because a wig would look fake. So they needed me to grow my hair out long enough so that they could attach extensions to it.

And then that way they could go back and forth between. Is that what they did in season five? You had extensions? Yeah, I had extensions. And then they, and then they, um, then they cut my. my hair, my actual head hair into tiny, tiny little pieces and they put in a little tray with some glue on it. And then they took a paint brush and then they painted the glue hair on my face. That's how I had that big beard. It was awesome. It's so insane. So I was like they're like

three hours early every day. They have the extensions and then they get that glue on the face. Why didn't you just grow? Oh, because they had to go back and forth so they couldn't. Yeah. And I also couldn't grow a beard. Oh, you couldn't? No, I mean, I could maybe grow like, it wouldn't have been a fun beard to see on TV for sure. That's so funny. It was a hit. Okay, if you could have chosen to direct the pilot or the finale, which one? The pilot, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think the pilot because, yeah, I don't know. It's okay. It's rapid fire. You don't have to explain yourself. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Oh, sorry, lightning. Just knocking them out. Were there any storylines that the writers pitched to you for Nathan that then didn't wind up happening that you wished you'd gotten to film? No, I don't think so. There was talk of Nathan like making it to the NBA, but I don't think the NBA would really let us do what we needed to do to make that storyline happen. That would have been cool, but it didn't happen.

And so I guess maybe that, maybe that counts. Yeah. Did you keep anything from set? I kept some, I kept the signature sneakers that Nathan had in season, at the beginning of season five, when he was like, when it was all good and he got his contract and his shoe deal and stuff. So I, yeah, I kept those. What other character besides Nathan would you want to play?

Whitey. Aw. I was watching the episode last night. I was like, God, I love this guy. Like, I love Barry and I love Whitey. Did you ever go drinking with Whitey? I did, yeah, yeah, a couple of times. We didn't run in the same circles.

But I definitely saw him out, you know, and we'd have beer with him for sure. Oh, that's so fun. Okay, that's a perfect segue into Will's question. Whitey was an important coach and figure in Nathan's life. Who has been a similar coach or figure in your life? Ooh, good question. Yeah, I guess, you know, My acting coach, Andrew McGarion, was a big, you know, influence on me.

And especially as a young person in this industry, just taught me a lot of foundational stuff about, you know, acting, but also about how to be a professional. So, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, he nailed that. Yeah, I mean. For sure. James, everyone in our industry working at the age that we were working at, up in one way or another and you are one of the few unicorns that never f*** up you never

f*** up no no that's not true i mean every i was young you know like i i was not i was certainly certainly not perfect but um but i i had i i definitely had um you know i you always had a good head on your shoulders yeah you know good family i've been really really fortunate in life so i think that that helped and you know people like Andrew helped and then you know there was good influences on the show as well like you know um you'll never forget Craig Sheffert telling me to save my money like that stuck with me it really did he had a great explanation for it and he didn't tell me in like a condescending way or in a way that you know made me feel like I didn't know anything he was he was genuinely trying to help me and at the time he probably thought like this

kid's never going to hear a word I'm saying but I heard it like loud and clear so getting that advice from Craig from this perspective that you're in today we have a last kind of maybe a perfect last fan question is what advice would you give Nathan today about life oh man I feel like I should be getting advice from Nathan not giving it to him or or give advice to a young version of yourself even that works too right right it's like yeah anything i could say to nathan i feel like he already kind of knew but i feel like i would say or maybe remind him or remind anyone that like anything anything worth doing is going to probably be pretty hard and and it's going to take a lot of time and dedication um but you can definitely do it um and just try to just just just try

not to lose yourself along the way, you know, just no matter how hard it gets and no matter how you know, I guess how much it feels like you're not going to get there sometimes. Just try to be kind to yourself and be kind to others. And you'll get there. Like, it'll happen and it might happen in a way that you don't expect, but it's going to happen. Well, James, that's like the perfect sentiment for this episode. Hey, listen, we're so excited that we have you because everyone's been asking you for like years now. Yes. We just watched 418.

Would you stay and do a recap episode of 418 with us? Oh, absolutely. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, let's rock it out. All right, kids. We'll see you next week with 418. Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school Drama girl All about them high school queens We'll take you for a ride

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It may look different But native culture is alive My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist. rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.