Drama Queens - Number 23 • EP418 Part 2 with James Lafferty

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

The Drama Queens break down “The Runaway Found” episode with James…and he doesn’t hold back!   James reveals his real opinion of the storylines, what he would have done differently if he was in charge and what it was like working with his on screen son!  A recap of the episode is amazing in itself, but the breakdown from Hilarie, Sophia, Joy and James – is One Tree Hill Heaven.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Season four, episode 18, the runaway found.

Finally, a positive title. Air date May 16, 2007. James Lafferty is here, ladies and gentlemen. We are so excited to have him. My Nathan. We were just joking. We always joke about how the titles of these episodes have been so depressing the last little while. You brought us the sunshine, James.

Thank you. Yes, you're welcome. My pleasure. Synopsis, Nathan fears for his future as past mistakes come back to haunt him and Haley. Lucas hears a shocking confession after making contact with a mysterious witness to Keith's murder. Brooke rekindles her friendship with Peyton after crossing paths with Chase. That sounds so ominous, but you guys literally did just like bump into each other in a parking lot. But in this synopsis, it makes it sound so dark.

That's what I was thinking. It really does. That was one scene. Yeah. It was like a literal blip on the radar. Nothing important happened to there at all. So much important stuff happened with Dan and he's not even in the synopsis. Oh my God. We have a lot to talk about. That's weird. Yeah. We have a lot to talk about. Barry to lead there, I guess. This episode to me felt like somebody sat in a room and they wrote down on little strips of paper, all the things that they needed to get through storylines. They just needed to tie up and finish and then threw them in a hat and then just pulled them out one of the time. pasted it to a board. Taped them to the paper like a ransom note. Oh, yeah, exactly. It was so all over the place.

My favorite episodes are when it's two totally different TV shows happening in the same episode. Like, whatever you and James were doing, you two had this, like, loving, beautiful storyline about communication. And Peyton was going to a prison under circumstances that have never existed in our judicial system ever. Like, can you imagine any prison on the planet? a teenage girl, just like, walk down the hall. On the cell block. I was like, why are they not in the little visitor windows with the phones? This is not allowed.

And the guy just shut the door and let you go in. Right. He locked her in. Shut the door, but... Locked her in with all the inmates. I can't. Some serious dramatic effect going on there, for sure. Was that at a real prison or did they build that?

No. We went to a real prison one time. Yeah, the prison right next to the airport. Remember we would land and there's the prison right there? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Welcome to Wilmington. Yeah. There's like a sewage treatment plant in a prison.

Yeah. And then... Hollywood East. But no, they built that on set, right? I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, here's my question, though. When we get into this discussion of, like, all these weird storylines that don't match up,

did you always read the entire script or did you do what Antoine did and just look at your stuff? Like, is all the girls shit a surprise? Dude, I will never forget when Antoine told us all that he doesn't read the scripts, just being like, that is so awesome for some reason. And I don't know why. But I was, I'm way too much of a scary cat to not read the scripts. Like, I got to read it all. I got to know exactly what's going on just in case. Like, my character is supposed to be aware of it or supposed to inform anything.

Like, I just had that drilled into me. So I always read the scripts. Sweet. Yeah. And then I never watched the show. that's the thing. So by the time I hadn't read this script and then shot it, I was like, I feel like I already know what happens. So why? Why am I going to watch it? Wait, so you never watched the show? I think I did like the first season or, but after the first

season, no, I didn't. I've never liked watching myself that much. And, and again, like I just, it was so weird. I just, for some reason, I just felt like I knew what happens. I did know what happen. And so I just wasn't that compelled to see how it turned out. I just felt like I know it turned out great. People like it. So it's probably why Antoine did see all the episodes of the show because he never knew what was going to happen. Yeah. He was a surprise. Yeah. He's like, what's going on this week. He would, yeah, he would come to set and be like, man, that was crazy. That was crazy what y'all did. Hey, y'all are good actors. You guys should do this for a living. But he says that all the time. Oh, funny. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Well, we've got Whitey right away kind of dealing with this press conference. Did you believe the idea that this high school point shaving would have solicited a huge media presence at Tree Hill High School? You know, at the time, I don't, I was so watching it this time, yes. I was like, wait, what's going on here? But I was so like plugged into basketball at the time that I knew. that every level of basketball from high school up has its own ecosystem of like I'm sure betting but also you know rumors and news and you know high school students are being like recruited and so they're getting like scores and like this is a five-star recruit this is a three-star recruit

and then it's big business where they go to college right so it's like that sort of you know there's write-ups on great players in slam magazine like when when they're you know juniors in high school and so that that kind of and so you know at the time I was like you know this is the story we're telling we're telling the story of a kid who's going to go to you know a national contender possibly be in the NBA yeah there would a hundred percent be media coverage around that I didn't even know slam magazine was the thing James I just learned something I was just thinking the same thing yeah as soon as you said that I looked across the zoom squares and I was like he is telling a story in the three

We of us are going, uh-huh. Well, no, but here's what I love, though. Here's what I love, though. Whoever wrote this episode, who shall remain nameless, definitely knew that part of the story had probably read Slam magazine. Research that part, the prison part, not so much. We didn't Google that. Not so much.

Not so much. Right, right. And I guess it would have helped for some context there as well, just to, like, let us know, just to remind people who are not in the know that, like, this is a big, this would be a huge, would be and is a big deal. um like maybe this happened to somebody else you know in the past or you know another player you know this is a perfect example or whatever but but yeah but i mean i you know i haven't watched as much basketball lately or you know i don't read slam magazine anymore so um like watching it this time

i was like hang on what the hell happened here like what's going on but but yeah i think i think it tracks i don't know about having the press conference like in like a common area of the school that just seems like that's more of a budget issue than a reality issue it's actually really interesting that you say that though that there is there is I mean duh there's a whole ecosystem for this it's one of the biggest sports in the world but that feels like there would have been such a cool opportunity when Nathan went to see Dan to talk about his fears and talk about the fact that there were investigators around that would have been such a cool opportunity for Dan to tell Nathan a story that would have clued in the audience that didn't

subscribe to Slam Magazine about how serious this was, you know? He's like, Nathan, let me show you this issue of Slam magazine. Yes, yes. In the summer of 1992. He pulls out a shoebox. Yeah, yeah. With shoebox. We do a lot of theorizing.

Dan had his own stuff going on, didn't he? This was a huge episode for Paul. Yeah, what a great performance I think him and Matt Barr they like saved this episode of their performances to me that was beautiful. Well, I just want to know

what was happening in the ecosystem of our show that not only did we have the Matt Bar horror storyline but now we have like all these horror storylines converging. Like you've got a teenage girl

being gaslit by her mother and Dan Scott pointing a gun in a store and like I know. Like everything's a horror film except for you too. It's the same thing, except for us always. But it was the same thing over again.

So, like, now we're watching a crazy man hold two women hostage again. Yeah. Like two episodes later. It's really interesting because in the beginning, when you go to see him, James, and you are talking about what's happening and, you know, you're a boy who's afraid, talking to his dad. And I wrote down what he said. He said, stay cool, deny everything.

Pray no one ever uncovers the truth. And you know he's talking about himself. He's telling you what he's been doing since he shot Keith. and he's starting to lose it. Like he looks like he's going to cry. Joy, do you remember? You were like, what is going on in Paul's eyes? It's so interesting.

And it opens in this space where you're like, whoa, we're really going to get inside what Dan's going through. And then he holds these women hostage and makes it all about Karen was supposed to be mine. And I'm like, wait a second. We're in weird like male possessiveness over women, like their trophies. He shot somebody. Like it just went completely off the rails. That's where I feel like it got pulled out of a hat. And they were just like, he'll say this.

But then he handed them this little weird rag doll at the end. I was so confused. What was with the doll? I don't know. Paul did such a great job because that's one of those things when you're handed material that you just read and you're like, what the hell is this? How am I supposed to make sense out of this? And there's really only one way to do it.

And that's to commit fully and just go all the way in. You're just going to look stupid otherwise. So he really committed. Yeah, but I feel like he also played the nuance really well too, you know, like that scene where he like goes into the house with Abby and her mom is is kind of like, you know, you're watching and you're like, this is this is fucked up, but he did such he did such a great job of like walking this line of of being dominant to get what he wants in that moment, but also being like, like, you're like afraid, you know, and sort of like he was like begging and. and demanding at the same time, which is not an easy thing to do. And especially when you're like depicting a situation like that where you are so clearly the aggressor, I thought he just did a really good job of walking the line between like dangerous and desperate in this episode. Yep.

It's weird. It's weird to see someone with that big of a body, right? And you're literally watching Paul do everything he can. and not to manhandle those women who are trying to push him out. And it's this strange kind of like Terminator walk where he doesn't have to push them down on the couch. He doesn't have to do anything physical with the women.

It's just like a pheromone that's like making people recoil from him. It's scary. He like fills up the doorway. You open the door and it's all dan. Completely. Wow. And he's just holding this brown paper bag.

bag. Mm-hmm. What's in the bag, Dan? What's in the bag? It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I've got thoughts. Oh, okay. What are your thoughts? Here's what struck me, because I watched this episode separately from you guys. And James, just so you know, we talk about all the things going on behind the scenes. as well as what was going on camera. And so everyone knows that the end of season four was a particularly weird time for me with our boss. Last week we watched the Honeygrove episode

and I was like, I was hiding in a hotel room with James half the time stealing the walkie-talkies from the AD department. Just like hide now. But in this episode, I can tell that I'm like not doing well. I'm super broken out. I'm super stressed. I'm not super checked into my performance.

And you've got two storylines. where women are confronting men who have assaulted them saying, I'm going to tell you can't do this to me anymore and the men are pushing back. Ian Banks, the bad guy named after my boyfriend at the time.

They used my boyfriend's name. Are you serious? That's right. It was, yeah. He's like, you're a tease. You asked for this. You were a tease. You asked for this. Abby tells Dan, I'm going to tell

and is very quickly put in her place. you are not, right? And they hired Sean Young, who had been a very, very successful young actress who had the world at her feet and who very publicly had her part reduced in Wall Street because she had conflict with Oliver Stone, who had been replaced in other movies because she was outspoken, and who had been dragged through the mud publicly for speaking out against her bosses. And to me, it felt like a really deliberate casting because this is too small of a part for her. There's no reason why they shouldn't have cast a local actress except to have kind of this example of like, this is what happens when you're a pain in the ass. And I was a pain in

the ass. Yeah, they were firing a warning shot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she was, I mean, it's she's pretty much run out was this her only episode i think so i mean i don't know that we see abby again yeah they leave lucas goes at the end of the episode and their house is empty but abby doesn't abby come back i feel like alison came back i don't know she was a great actress do you remember she was so good in the classroom james yeah no i remember the uh was that season three or season two season three yeah i remember being struck by how good she was and she was she was super young right like like at that time wasn't she like she's little she's like 14 or 15 or something yeah yeah yeah but i remember being like man she's she's a beast like she was really had this crazy you know

emotional reservoir and was just really like locked in as well i remember he being super focused super locked in and um that's not an easy thing to do show up on a set like that as a kid and um just make mince meat out of those scenes, you know? Yeah, I mean, especially if, like, there's so much pressure. Like, that was a huge episode for anyone to come in. We talked to Colin a lot about coming in for the school shooting episode and just having to perform, because the weight of it is so much more than just like, you know,

a typical episode of television. You've got to carry the emotional weight of a nation of viewers. And so she doesn't get let off the ropes. Now she's got to do it this many episodes later. What did you guys think about the fact that her mom was like gaslighting her and saying your name's not Abby, is it? Oh, no, no. She was trying to prove that she was trying to prove to Lucas

that Abby's gone crazy, that all she can ever do is just shake her head. So she was trying to like put a chink in the armor of him thinking that she had confirmed his theory. Yeah. I wrote down. I said, is the mom coaching her to do this to keep her safe? Because the mayor's the murderer. I mean, it's like literally in my notes. And then two pages later, Abby is pretending. Yeah. So this, that just goes to show the folks at home, we literally don't remember what we did. No. But so strange. So strange. Yeah. That they came in and never came back. That's it. That's their last, both of their last episode. That is wild. Because it really did feel like a jumping off point more than anything else, I feel like, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. But that idea that the mom, not that it makes it right, by the way, I imagine it would be very traumatizing were this real for a teenager to have her parent treating them that way. But this idea that you're so terrified that the, you know, the guy in charge of your town got away with murder. He murdered his sibling. Yeah. So you think I cannot let him kill my kid. I can't let this come down on my kid.

My kid who goes to school with this guy's kids. Yeah. And so maybe. I mean, there's obviously the behind-the-scenes stuff, which you brought up, Hill, but I feel like the way they probably pitched it in the writer's room was, there's just so much fear that as soon as Abby said it, they're running out of town. Yeah. Right. Or it's like, yeah, it's her way of protecting her.

Like, it's best to just not touch this at all and stay away from it because it's too dangerous kind of thing. I don't know. It feels like a spicy lifetime movie, like those rip from the headline movies about moms that make their kids be sick. What is that? Munchausen syndrome? Munchausen? Yeah.

You're in a wheelchair now, Abby. Deal with it. Oh, God. This whole episode actually was kind of a cheesy TV movie, wasn't it? Except for you to. Like the point, no, but the point shaving, that's its own movie. Like basketball star shaves points. What's going to happen?

Will his brother take the fall? You know, and then you guys with your home to the prison thing? Yeah, I mean, this was definitely around the time in the show when things started moving at this pace, right? Like, I mean, there was always things that happened that were a little bit out there sometimes, but I feel like they started happening more often around this time, right? We were really water skiing toward that shark at this point. We're moving towards it.

We're going to jump. They had started making fun of us on the soup, right? And rather than be offended by it, I feel like our bosses saw an opportunity. to lean into it and say, great, any press is good press. Let's really make them talk about us. But let's talk about how as actors that made us feel. Like, James, do you remember our show being on the soup and being made fun of? I do.

Yeah, yeah. When was that? Yes, Syke made fun of us too. They did. Syke made fun of us all the time. Yeah, I, it's interesting because I always felt like there was, the way that our fans there was like two worlds like our show made like an impact in two very different ways with two very different groups of people it was like the industry kind of saw our show one way and then fans um saw our show another way like we were not yeah if that makes sense like so it wouldn't ever really like a surprise to me that a show like the soup would make fun of us and when they did make fun of us I thought they kind of nailed it like It was funny.

You're like, all right, that's true. And I didn't hate being on the soup. I thought it was like, it's sort of like a, you know, a little badge of water in a way. But I also always had the, I guess I just, yeah, I got satisfaction out of knowing that it, you know, people still, people dug it. There were people out there who did like it and were taking those twists and turns with us. And, you know, I'm not really sure how we did that, like how we struck. that, walk that line, struck that tone. It's something original to our show, at least, you know?

Yeah. And I don't know if it's the reason that we didn't find a bigger audience or it's part of the reason why we just have the audience that we do. Like, it's so hard to know. Yeah. But what the impact of all that really was. But I just tried to take it in stride, I guess. Well, and I think to your point, that sort of mix, that seesaw, it is fun to watch.

watch heightened drama. Yeah. It's fun. It's engaging. We enjoy it. It's, you know, a similar version to your point earlier. It's why people like horror movies. But we also had so much heart.

We had that, we had those realities. We had, you know, I wrote down something about how in that first scene when the two of you are at the river court, Nathan and Haley, around the picnic table. Oh, so cute. Oh, my God. and you're like just expressing all your fears to your person and it's so like it's just so poignant i i made a note about the apparent pain on your face and then when you go to the to do your press conference and you actively choose not to be dan and you give this composed

speech but it's clearly so poignant you get to see growth and yeah most kids aren't dealing with point shaving because of gambling in a high school like the container is ridiculous but what you guys put in it is very real and even even the brook and patent in this episode you know the container of a psychoderic oh god yeah insane but friends showing up for each other after somebody gets assaulted and saying that guy fuck his shame it never matters what you're wearing you didn't do anything wrong you are not a tease that is his problem and we're going to fight back, that is something that almost every group of female friends I know has had to do at one point or another in their lives. And it's real. And I think those are the things, to your

point, James. Like, that's what I think the fans click into is, is what was made real inside of a TV. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good point. I mean, I mean, just to run with that a little bit. Like I, I watch, uh, Alex and I watch Firefly Lane on Netflix. Have you guys seen that? Yeah. Yeah. Catherine Hegel show. Um, and I remember like, as, as I was watching it, like, I, I remember thinking like, oh man, this is like, this kind of reminds me of like one tree hill in some ways. Um, and, you know, it feels a little bit soapy, but I just, I stuck, I stuck with it. And by the end of the show. I like, obviously, now I like love the show and I can't wait for the rest of it to come out and stuff. You're so cute. But I think I realized like watching the show like, oh, this is why

this is why soap works is because they take you to these like crazy extreme ends sometimes where you're like, okay, what am I doing here? But yeah, but they trick you like they get you. They get you to believe it for that second. And when they get you to believe it and then something like you were saying, Sophia, like something like really organic and like relatable comes from it then you're just like it's like you've been at like a like you've just been watching a magician do his thing for an hour and suddenly you're like um this guy's like the coolest person in the world like this guy like we're kind of conditioning the audience to do what we do when we have to have a reaction and there's just a sea stand in a tennis ball in that way like we're we're teaching the

audience is buying something that is clearly not real but because the emotion behind it and the people that are there feel connected to reality, they go there with us. Yeah. It's a totally different way of storytelling, but like it does work if done right, I guess. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you also feel that we were kind of doing tag team wrestling?

Because a group of us would get to do something really earnest and heartfelt, while the other group had to like get into the ring and do the slapstick body slam like crazy shit you're always trading places there's not one single episode where we're all just like steady like there's a hitching the giddy up always who yeah who was your your most mischievous partner you know you've got good stuff with chat in this episode that i want to talk about obviously Obviously, you enjoy, had 27 years worth of marital strife at a conquer. Marital strife. Yeah, but you also had, you had Brett Claywell, you had Tyler Hilton, you had Robert Buckley

after I was gone. Like, who are the people that when you read the script, you were like, uh-oh, we're going to get this in trouble? Oh, man. Well, definitely, you know, Tim. I mean, I ended up in like a Girl Scout costume with Tim very early on. But then as a show went on, yeah, I mean, Chris Keller.

Like, every time Chris Keller came to town, it was like... You guys were magic together. I feel like all of us were like praying that our characters would bounce off of him while he was there for how long he was going to be there, you know? So fun. He was so great and such an amazing energy and just like, like the guy is, is so just magnetic on screen, like no matter, no matter what he's doing. I mean, I can't, he just gets away with, his character gets away with murder because he's

so friggin charming. Yeah. And I think, um, I, I love that stuff. I loved, you know, because, because then I could go as low as I wanted. I could just be like baseline. I didn't have to do anything when he was around. Perfect straight man. That was it was like, it was the straight.

It was the straight. It was the abbot and Costello of it all with the, with the, with two of you on camera always. It was the straight man and the funny man, but it worked so well because you both lean in so hard to your role. Yeah. It's so fun to know that you're in a funny scene, but not have the pressure of having to be funny. Oh, God. Yeah. This is going to be funny because he's funny. But when the two of you did that episode where you were in Nathan's hatchback and the tape got stuck and played that ridiculous song over and over again, like, I need you to know that the three of us watching that episode, we're like, we want this to be a movie. Where is this movie?

Like, these two need to have their own ridiculous like slapstick adventure that lasts a full two hours. Like, we need it as audience members, we need it. Oh, that's awesome. You should just play firefighters or something. Do a firefighter comedy.

Just like dudes be a dudes on a ladder. That will be fun. I love that idea. Yeah. Love. Fine. One's afraid of heights and one's not. There you go. That's the show. perfect but your partner in this episode is your brother right and i love love love this conflict that you

have with lucas because it's so real you have been giving marching orders by your dad just to shut up right and you tell lucas don't touch it don't touch the thing don't touch it and what does he do he's got to go be a martyr with white he'll be a hero so lucas well haley showed up haley didn't help much either She was the one that was sort of like needling the, which is actually, I thought so interesting that Haley, the girl had grew up with such, you know, good parenting and strong morals and values and was like, no, you got to always do the right thing. When push comes to shove, she's the one who gets a little waffily and Nathan's the one who decides the kid who grows up without any of that's being set. In fact, the opposite example is set for him. And he's the one who has to make that decision and does it with flying colors. I thought that was really. interesting kind of telling I guess very very human of us yeah I mean it was yeah I thought that was interesting as well like Haley's role in this whole in this whole thing I mean she's obviously it's kind of funny like I I got this feeling of like seeing Haley you know pregnant with like this thing that means more than all of it and like talking about this stuff I

I kind of felt for Haley like, are you not annoyed with these guys yet? You got way bigger fish to fry here, right? But yeah, I thought you did a great job. And I really like Haley and the relationship between Haley and Lucas and Nathan. You know, like I always thought that was such an interesting dynamic because like Haley and Lucas are so, that's like so. part like it's like the DNA of the show like i remember that relationship so well from the pilot episode you know being so cool and so um but i don't know how often we went back to it and it was cool to see that in this episode like i'm glad i got an episode where i got to see that that dynamic

between you guys because it was really great you know what's cool is like nathan and lucas are brothers but they don't they didn't grow up as brothers they don't know how to be siblings but haley grew up with Lucas as a sibling and so Haley and her relationship with Nathan gets to teach the boys how do we siblings with each other? Like you are absolutely their usher into that relationship. Yeah. And it's cool that you could have that sibling conversation joy. You could have it with Lucas and then explain Lucas to Nathan because you see that the immediate reaction is conflict. It's like that motherfucker, yeah, yeah. But Haley also gets to, she gets to qualify things for them. I was taken aback.

It was another thing I jotted down. When you look at Nathan and say, he is your best friend and your brother. And I was like, oh, my God, are they best friends? They are now. It's just this wild moment where you qualify, you know, in a scene that wasn't as well written as that one, you would have been doing exposition about like, how far are you two have come in your relationship, Wong-Wong. That was no time for that in this episode.

Exactly. But it was this really simple declarative statement, but it was a big deal because you put words to it. And we've seen it for a long time. But I don't know that we've heard anyone say that before. And it's striking. And it is very cool that she gets to be, you know, she's the connective tissue for these two. And then the three of them really build what you were saying, James, that relationship. Yeah, this is the season for Haley of she's definitely like the connective tissue.

a lot of storylines, I feel like she's entering into this season of like where I did a lot of bouncing around of explaining things and making people understand each other and trying to keep everything like the float. She's literally being everyone's mom because none of us have parents. Yeah, exactly. Which is fitting because, you know, she's about to be a mom. Exactly. But anyway, I loved Nathan's choice. I thought it was really cool that he got up there and, you know, made the right choice in spite of everything that was on the line. How often are you three in scenes together in this show? Like I noticed that there's like some really good stuff with with you guys at the end,

which is there's just such an ease between you three like in these characters. It was really cool to see that. It was like perfect representation of what the show stands for right there in that scene with you three. But like does that happen? I can't remember. Like does that happen quite often or was that like a- It did, but it's petered out a little bit over the line. last season. But we've also

really ebbs and flows. Yeah. Yeah. But I did love that very similarly in the triangle with Haley, Nathan and Lucas, the triangle of the female friendships between us is so special. And

whether you get, you know, moments of Brooke and Haley having time, Peyton and Haley having time, Brooke and Rachel or Peyton and Brooke, like, we have a lot of great female duos, but when the three of us are together, it does feel special and it's cool that you see that James like when when Haley comes in and we get the you know dun-dun-dun-tah like who's in but then it's but then it's the three of us and it's

it's that iconic scene like the thing that probably gets shared with me the most is brook's warrior speech and and the three of us sitting in that bed these young girls who've been through so much together and they're choosing to take what's happened to them and celebrate their strength. It is kind of this iconic moment. And I do think there is something really special about when the three of us get to be together. Yeah.

Absolutely, there is. Yeah. Is there anybody who didn't live in that apartment at some point? Like, I'm so pumped. Mouth? Yeah. I was going to say Mouth. Didn't live.

The Mouth is the only person. In the apartment. God, that apartment set. That apartment. You knew. Did we even still have that in season five? No. Did they go away?

I don't know. Surely no. Right? I forgot that we moved in together in that apartment. Zero recollection. Yeah. Last week I was like, wait, what? Is that going to happen?

But super cute that Brooke, like, repainted the whole bedroom. I didn't, I forgot that. I got a little tear. I was like, she painted it red. Like, it was iconic and totally caught me off. it caught me off guard too that's what's funny it's such a poignant moment and it is one that until i saw it in front of my face i forgot we had done yeah did they redo the bathroom in your apartment though because y'all had some goofy tile in that apartment that whole apartment set was problematic you know what

i was struck by how not aspirational the sets were you know what i mean like like and i kind of like like I'm kind of into it because I felt like when I see like Nathan and Haley's apartment or you know your apartment like some of these sets I'm like this but this you know you watch like sitcoms and other shows and stuff and everybody

no matter what job they have is living in like a massive like 2,000 square foot like exposed brick loft right like the friends apartment and you're like perfectly decorated is going on

on. Yeah. But like I feel like our sets were like they pretty closely reflected, at least in the beginning, like where people live. Like where, you know, like what what a first apartment would actually look like. And what furniture would be in it and. Yeah. And like, yeah, yeah, what furniture would be in it. And like maybe you're you don't have time or money to like decorate right away or like paint the walls and stuff. Or maybe you got some like you said, maybe you got some funky time. from the last person that lived there or something. But like, that part of it felt pretty real to me. You know, not aesthetically pleasing, but, you know, interesting that they let us do that. James, there's like one episode where all of a sudden there's just this like wall of bubbles that you've put in the apartment to surprise. Sophia just choked on her coffee.

Oh, my God. I just almost spit coffee out of my nose. A wall of bubbles? It like wasn't an aquarium. It was just a wall that like had bubbles floating up. Like a feature wall? Yes. It was solely for the purpose of a transition scene.

Yeah. Because there was, somebody had brought it in to our apartment for a transition moment in a scene. From a prom or what was it? I got it. When you guys are supposed to go on your honeymoon to London and then the car crash happens and you don't get to go. You go back to the apartment finally. And Nathan had this big surprise waiting for Haley. And he turned the whole apartment into London, except it's like giant artwork of red telephone

booths and big weird red chairs and then there's a bubble wall next to the mural of the London Bridge and it only exists so Nathan can have a drowning flashback. That's right. So ridiculous. You guys, it is burned into my brain. Oh, that's hilarious. Whatever happened to that storyline? Wait a second.

Where did it go? Where did it go? You were having all of these like flashes and, you know, after the limo went off the bridge. Yeah. This sweet boy with so much PTSD and everyone's just like. you're a basketball star you're fine he's fine oh and it just kind of it just didn't really go anywhere no i'm trying to remember no james your character had PTSD for basically a whole season and it was you know attempted suicides multiple times i mean there was some really dark stuff in there

it was gnarly do you ever have people come up and talk to you about that because i have people come up to me and talk to me about sexual assault all the time based on the you know crazy psychederic stuff And you don't think about that when you're filming it, but then when we start going to conventions and stuff like that, I don't know if you've ever had anyone kind of put those puzzle pieces together. Not in like a specific way with a specific thing, I think, that helped. I mean, I've had, you know, I've had people tell me that the show got them through, you know, a really tough time in their life and things like that.

But I don't think I've ever had anybody say like this thing that your character, went through in particular helped me get through this particular thing. I'm not sure that I've had that, but certainly, you know, have had people tell me that, you know, the show was, was there for them, you know, while they're like stuck in a hospital for, you know, months or something like that. Like that to me, I feel like is that that's the thing that makes me the most happy is when, you know, it's like we, I feel like we made something that was actually, because I had that for myself.

Like, there are shows that I will go to because I need to be comforted, you know? Firefly Lane. And in the fact that, like, we made something like that. Now Firefly Lane. Yeah. So I just feel like it's really cool to be a part of something that is that for someone. Yeah. Yes, too.

It's one of the greatest. It is very special. Honors about being a part of this show for sure. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her. story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Now that Nathan seems to kind of be on the other side of that darkness and you guys are prepping for a kid, as we, you know, wrap up the high school years, what was your mindset knowing that you were going to have to work with like a baby? And I say it like it's disgusting. With a baby. Oh, that's a lot for like any actor, but especially a young actor who doesn't have a lot of experience with babies. You know, did you grow up babysitting?

no no no okay i still don't have a lot of like experience with babies like i'm still very uncomfortable holding a baby because i think it's gonna break it you know like it's it's i don't have like if there's it's so at the time yeah i remember um being yeah not not so much like scared of working i like i like kids i like babies and stuff but i just don't like i don't like i don't know how to be around them and i'm also i'm really bad with kids as well like i'm so lucky that like that's not true you were so great with jackson yeah but jackson's like different you know like jackson was so extraverted and so chill and so funny and like he just wanted to play but like i struggle with kids who are shy because i'm shy so if like if there's a kid who's shy i think that they can see like they

i'm just like they don't like me like that kid knows i'm a bad person i'm just going to stay away So I was afraid that I would be like have some really awkward relationship with like the kid that's supposed to say. You're just paranoid. You're going to have a staring contest for five years looking at each other, just like, what are you going to do? Yep. And I did have to learn, you know, like with Jackson, I feel like I was talking to him like he was a kid for a little bit. And, you know, he was like, too, you know, I was talking to me like that. Nobody's talked to me like that since I was three, man.

Like he's like five Yeah Kids are great at telling you that though They'll let you know Oh yeah Oh yeah he told me my He told me oh dude The funniest thing ever

I guess this is a next season story But I picked him up one time And was like What's up man? He was like Ooh Your breath Oh no

Oh my gosh I'll go get him in Yeah kids are hard They're hard. I told Joy and Hillary this, but I don't, James, I don't know if you remember because I, I do recall Lisa and I both being pretty horrified. So we may have come to set saying this, but there was a day because, you know, kids have different hours. They are not at work all the time that we are. And we were having one of those days, you know, you said this earlier, the hair makeup trailer is like the hub of the whole show.

And Lisa and I were getting ready to do a scene. And so I'd gone through makeup and I was in. in hair. And she'd gone through hair and she was in makeup. And Jackson comes in to get ready for the scene and he looks at Lisa and he goes, what happened to you? And she goes, what? And he goes, you look weird. And she just said, oh, well, I don't have any makeup on yet. You know, we're getting ready. And he goes, yeah, you look better with makeup on. Stop! He's shaking his head and walked down to the other end of the trailer and we were like, oh, the honesty of children. Oh, God, it hurts. it was so like and the whole place just fell out like i thought tim was going to fall down laughing

it's like what are you going to do they just tell you what you think what they think exactly yeah they it's and he was a perfect representation of that because he was like and he's such a good kid he just had a heart of gold and and so no matter what he said it was just it was funny james how old were you when you did your first like job like how old were you on set when you were first starting? I was, I think the first time I was on set, I was like six, six years old. Yeah.

I think you and I were like the only child actors on our show. Everybody else had started later in life. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So did that affect kind of, like, do you feel like that made you protective of him? Because you'd been in that space before? Yeah.

Yeah, I think it made me look back at my childhood a little differently, you know? Like, I definitely felt like just drawn to him because I just feel it was impossible not to be drawn to Jackson. But I do remember thinking like, this kid's working a lot, you know. And then I remember thinking like, did I do that? Like, did I work a lot when I was a kid? Like, I don't know, it just kind of makes you, gives you a little bit of a bird's eye view of the whole thing. And, but I think for the most part, you know, like I really recognized in him, like, why I fell in love with sets as a kid. And why I've always felt like the most home, like home the most on a set because he's like, he engaged so much with everyone.

Like he really, like that set was a playground. for him. And even if he was working a lot, I always felt like he, he really was having a good time. And there wasn't any place he would rather be. Um, because he had so many friends there, you know, like, and he really, he was a type of kid who was really curious. And everyone would give, even though we were on a, you know, we're on a TV set, like time is money. But there was never a time where like, we never had, um, like not enough time for Jackson. You know what I being like script supervisor production assistant director like if you wanted to talk to you if you had a question like you're going to spend time with him and and so I feel like um you know that

seeing that I was like oh well yeah no wonder I'm no wonder I'm still here because it's it's pretty cool to be on set when you're a kid under the right circumstances right um you know it can go very very wrong very easy for it to go wrong but I feel like he had a safe space for him you had a safe grace yeah well and you know what's cool you're making me realize i remember when in the later seasons we all started directing i don't know if it was like i envision it as being like a water cooler conversation we didn't have a water cooler but you know what i remember all of us talking about how we've been doing this job for so long but then directing episodes it it it reignites the whole thing and it makes everything new again and i don't think i had considered it until you just said it

I think Jackson showing up in season five was the first version of that. He made the whole set new again for everybody. And we were like, whoa, this is really cool. Yeah, seeing it through his eyes. A hundred percent that happened. It's special when you get that in a long-running job. When you get things that make it feel brand new again years in. Like, that's really, really special.

Yes. With the directing part of it, James, like when you watch an episode like this one, like 4-18 back, now that you've directed so much. What stands out to you? Like, what would you have done differently in a situation like this? Oh, like with this particular episode? Yeah. I don't know if I would have done anything differently.

I think what really stood out to me was, you know, that our show had a specific style, you know. But there were certain things. And I don't want to say like formulaic, it's not formulaic in a bad way. But by this time in the show, we had a formula, right? Well, it's a familiarity that the audience relies on. So you can't stray too far from it on purpose. Yeah, yeah. And there's like a rhythm.

And there's certain things that happen that sort of, there's certain things that happen technically that signal what's about to happen for you. So like as we're getting into, you know, the CODA is a thing that has been around for a while. And I think our show did really well. But, like, there were certain things that happened, like, to get us into the CODA. Like, you know you're coming, you're getting close to the CODA when you start to see, like, a couple crane shots and stuff. And, you know, it's not just the end of a crane shot because they cut it for time. It's like, okay, now we're slowing things down a bit.

Now we're going to sort of, you know, I guess we're going to sort of hypnotize you a little bit and, like, roll you into, like, a sense of something as we go into, you know, then we'll cue the. the music and then you're just like floating away with us as we cut between characters. So stuff like that, yeah, it was cool to see that because, you know, I think that stuff was like pretty consistent throughout the entire life of the show. And so I recognized a lot of it in this episode. And David Jackson, I remember being a really good dude. I liked him a lot. I liked his energy.

I liked the way he ran a set. And so, you know, at the time, you know, I wasn't looking at David Jackson. I wasn't thinking about David Jackson's, like, visual choices or directorial choices. I was just thinking about, like, my experience with him personally on the set. But it was cool to watch what he was doing as a director, you know, this time around. Yeah. Did you, when you look for things to direct now, what kind of projects excite you? I love stuff that doesn't take itself too seriously.

I love stuff that's a little tongue-in-cheek, dramedy, you know. I've always just been really taken with the Adam McKays and the David O. Russell's of the world where I think David O. Russell's is probably the best example because he can, like that guy can tear my, you know, his movies can tear my heart out and make me laugh hysterically at the same time. And there's something about that seesaw that I really love and gravitate towards. So, yeah. So cool. I'm so glad we got you to come on this show, James. Yeah. It's been a pleasure, guys. Yeah. Is there anything you have coming up that you want to talk about before we spin our wheel and all that?

Besides everyone is doing great, which we talked about in our last chat. But is there anything else you want to? Yeah, I got a film coming out here. I don't know if it's coming out soon. It's called Red Right Hand. some producers from our show Ian and Nash and Nelms they directed that film

Alex and I are both in it so that's fun and we are I want to give too much away but we're playing we get to do a departure from what we usually do so yeah really excited about that but other than that I'm just like

we're just editing season two we'll be doing that for the next like seven months in this in this room actually I love how collaborative you and your wife are, you know? And coming up in our industry, I didn't have industry parents. You didn't have industry parents. Like, there was no example for how you're supposed to formulate a relationship that makes sense with the hours we work and with, like, the weirdness of our job.

And so finding someone you can collaborate with is vital. And I love that you guys are doing all these projects together. She's cool, James. Oh, yeah, she's amazing. She's amazing. Thanks for saying that. I think it's definitely, I mean, it's the only way to survive in this industry, too, I think. Like, if you're going to be in this industry and have a partner in this industry that has, like, the same job as you, like, I feel like it's probably pretty easy for it to get competitive.

Like, you got to go the other way. You got to just, like, lift each other up and help each other out and work together. I feel like it's the only way. I can't imagine doing it any other way, you know. Well, it's really special, and it's like, it is, to Hillary's point, it's very inspiring. Because, you know, especially for all of us when we talk about the things that we share in those nine years, like, getting kind of yanked out of your life for 10 months a year can be really disruptive. And to see the way that you guys are literally building your life around being able to make sure you can be in places together is awesome.

And you guys are making such cool shit. So it's fun to root for you, you know, as our friend who is happy and also to root for the things that you two as partners are making. That's all really, really cool. And, you know. Thanks. I'm definitely a lucky guy for sure. Oh, yeah.

And I want to say, you know, on behalf of the three of us, I know it was like, you know, cats in a bag trying to get all four of our schedules to line up to get you on this show. Like, the fans kept being like, Wednesday coming. And we were like, we've literally been working. on it for a year. Like, we've literally been trying so hard. And the fact that you were able to kind of scissor out this time for us this morning and make sure you could be here was really absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. No, I mean, you guys have always been there for me and for us. And, you know, I really appreciate that. And I'm really happy for all of you and the podcast.

Like, it's such a success and people love it. And it's really cool to, you know, you're not just doing this, you know, all, we feel the rest of us from the show, we feel it as well, you know, like we're, you know, I feel the love from the show through your guys's show and, um, you've really brought it back around in a way that I never knew was possible. And, uh, that's, that's really awesome. So thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks, bud. Baby, we got to spin a wheel. That's how you become an official drama queen. We have to spin a wheel together. Oh, we spin a wheel. We spin a wheel. We spin it's most likely to, like a year, book most likely too. So this week, our superlative, you have to pick one of our actor friends,

but also a character. So, this is perfect for today's conversation. Who's most likely to babysit your kids? Who's the most likely to babysit your kids? You know who has babysat my kids? Antoine. When George was a baby, she would not sleep. She just absolutely would not sleep. And Antoine and I were doing a movie together, and I watched him pick her up, put her in one arm, like, hold her in this real weird way, and she was out in like two minutes. And I was just like, what? Yeah, he has skills, literally. Literally. Well, knowing that, I feel like that'd be a pretty safe choice. But, you know, I think I'm going to go with Barbara. If she could give my kid like an ounce of the juju that her kids have,

then I feel like my kid would be fine. You know, like her, what she's done with her family and their whole crew, man, that's so cool. They're awesome. And I mean, Barbara is just, she's a hero to me. So. Oh, she'll cry if she hears you said that, James. She loves you so much.

She's amazing. What character? Haley, I'd say. She's got, she's good. Yeah, I guess so, right? Or Karen, or Karen. Yeah, yeah, Karen would be great. Like, not Rachel.

Not Rachel. Like, not Rachel. Not Rachel. Not Rachel. There are a few definite nose. Sweet. All right. Well, next week we have episode 419, and we are barreling towards graduation.

We're almost out of the high school years. James, I'm so glad that you could come and be a part of high school with us. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama Queen, Drama Queen.

It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.