Drama Queens - Oh The Things You Don’t Know ᐧ EP606

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

There’s some behind-the-scenes juice you probably didn't pick up on in this episode. While Lucas was beginning his book tour, Nathan was back on the court and Brooke was faced with a life-changing proposition…The cast was sneaking off during breaks, Hilarie was genuinely giddy about a co-star and it was harder than usual to leave the set. Plus, it’s unanimous…the girls say one person in particular won the episode. Find out who and why!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Queens.

You guys, I'm back. Welcome to that. I know you guys recorded episodes before we broke for the new year, but this is our first recording back, you know, from break. What did you guys do? Everybody put a break? Yeah. Good break. What did you do?

Well, I did zero. I stayed home with my family, but the ghost of Christmas past came to see me on the very last day of break. And I get this text message, and it's Venice Leone, our script supervisor, Mike Leone, and his wife, who was all of our eye doctor, they had a five-year-old little girl, season one of One Tree Hill. And I connected with this child in such a deep way. And I wasn't obsessed with her, but I was because she was so free and, like, she just said whatever she thought. And I thought she was such a cool kid. I used to go to her dance recitals. And I was obsessed with this child.

And I remember taking her to see Mama Mia in the movie theater and promising her that one day when she grew up and moved to New York City, we would be grown-up friends. And so she lives in New York City now. And I got a text message that she was driving through, coming back from a ski trip, and wanted to come by the farm. And this child is like, all grown up now. And she's the most beautiful woman. And she just sat with me at my kitchen table. And Jeff and my children, it was like they were walking. watching lightning strikes because it was just two of, we have the same birthday. We're both

July 1st babies. And they were like, whoever that girl is, you two were in love. And just, I was so happy to see her. And it was really nice to have that memory of Win Tree Hill and like have my daughter who's five and think about, you know, the lifelong relationships that we created while we were down there. Oh, Venice, what a treat. I loved it. So, so cool. I loved it. So yeah, that's my New Year's. What'd you guys do?

Did you get crazy? Light fireworks? Oh, no. I should have lit some fireworks. I'm such a Fourth of July firework lighter, not New Year's for some reason. I went to California and just saw my sister and brother and family and all the kids just ran around and piled on top of each other. And we walked the dog and we opened up presents early in the morning and made French toast and did the whole like, that's what Christmas is for. It's for the kids.

you know so it was really really nice yeah yeah loved it yeah yeah I just I took my I took my parents um up to wine country and my my best friend from London came out and I I always do a bit of like an orphan Christmas so yeah my all my friends who don't go see family or who don't have family anymore or whatever it is you know kind of pile in and so you can mother them you know it's like it's really really sweet so it was like you know jack my my friend who's here from the uk we went up to the ranch first and then sammy came and like every day there were more and more people coming so by christmas we had this full house and then we sort of have this tradition where like once my parents leave after the holiday then extra people come and pile into the room they've been

staying in so it's like this sort of revolving door of friends and loved ones and family members and And, you know, just like a lot of food and lawn games and, like, play horseshoes and get the archery set out and sit by the pond and look at the birds. She loves an activity. I love an activity. Can we just sit here? And she's like, we can sit here, but also throw lawn darts. I also, like, I really did lean in on a lot of the classic holiday movies, which felt fun. Oh, yeah.

So it's like, do you want to build a fire and watch Home Alone? Or do you want to go, you know, out in the backyard and pretend we're in the hunger games? It's really choose your own adventure. It's a role-playing. You should do larping with all your friends, Sophia. I think that would be, yeah. You have all the props for it. I do.

I have those. You have swords. I mean, between the three of us and all the random shit in our garages, I'm sure we would be excellent at that. I don't know that it's where I want to invest my time, but never see. we're on a journey of discovery aren't we here we go listen our new year's resolution more larping please uh so i kicked off my new year i kicked off my morning by catching up on all the episodes you guys have watched um so it was a very depressing morning wow season six is so heavy i don't know how four episodes in a row of death and trauma i don't know how you guys at home

do this it was um are you guys okay Are you too okay? We were not okay sometimes. It was tough. There were some rough moments. It's dark. Well, I feel like we're on, like there's a path that this episode is on. It feels like things are lightning up.

Or maybe people are just like becoming okay. But this was episode six, choosing my own way of life. Air date October 13th, 2008. Somebody give us the synopsis. Well, Lucas begins his book tour and is joining. by a familiar face. Nathan is given an opportunity to play basketball again in a new way, which forces him to question his health, and Haley tries to help a student in need. Brooke considers a life-changing proposition while Peyton and Mick have a confrontation

over his identity. This episode was directed by the lovely Clark Mathis, and I agree. It does feel like we're getting out of the darkness of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, this whole episode felt like. people reaching for where they belong and people finding where they belong. Everybody sort of had their arms out or they were coming back home, which is nice after so much struggle and wandering over the last few episodes. What do we start with? So Lucas is going to go on book tour.

Honestly, it all runs together for me at this point, so I have to consult my notes. I know, you poor thing. I don't know. What did Lucas say to Lindsay? I was upset about that. I was like, Lucas, you a nerd. Why not you just tell that girl

what's going on before you're in a business meeting? I mean, come on. Give her a heads up before she has to look you in the eye. Jesus. So sweaty about it. Also, I loved, by the way,

even though it was the last episode, the fact that she said, I really wish you would have done this on the phone. Yes. Yeah. And what part of you thought that she wanted to be in the room

with you and experience that those, all those emotions with you, you jackass? No. But you know what I will say is that's one of those like you just kind of can't wins because I get why he's like I should be I should be an adult and I should go have a conversation with her about this right and you know not chicken out and do it over the phone and then she's like you should have done it over the phone and it's like no no matter what it was going to be bad yeah that's true yeah but you know what I love about that whole storyline is that at the top of this episode my first note is I love the way you admit as Peyton that you are jealous of Lindsay like you sit there and you have like this little moment and you're kind of embarrassed but you're also just going to say it and you're like yeah I'm jealous what I'm like what do you

want for me and I just loved it I loved the way you played it and it just felt so familiar between you two and I think you really see the the six years that we've spent watching these characters find their way back to each other like I don't know it just it felt so sunken in in your relationship in a way that was fragile and funny, and I really liked it. I mean, it's weird to have to go on an intimate business trip with the person that you were just, like, all of that is so uncomfortable. And in my mind, I'm trying to think, like,

is that how book tours really work? Like, is there a world in which his editor would go on that trip with him and not just, like, you know. A PR person, a rap. His book agent. Yeah, book agent. somebody else i don't know that your editor goes on those trips but uh i love for the purpose of storytelling that we had to live in that world and that peyton you know was okay with it like what's

the worst he's gonna gonna do sleep with lindsay he's already done that what's i gonna do love her and want to marry her already done it but it's a great excuse to bring mouth back yeah and that's the best. That was fun. It really is. And mouth storyline, I had, this was one of those things. Obviously, none of us were there for those scenes. I'd forgotten about it. And it just, every single thing that Lee did in this episode made me laugh so hard. Even the way he shows up to the signing and goes, oh, oh. His comedy, like, you know, you just got a mouthful. Every, everything he did made me do a spit tape laughing it was great that kid that took a picture with him was hilarious too yeah yeah mouth just hasn't he hasn't like had anything front and center for a while you know

because he's had seasons where he really was just rolling with a comedy and it's been a minute it's so great like refreshing i forgot that i missed it so much in the week of quentin's death i loved Lucas being okay with this book not doing well you know like for Lucas who had this whole fight with Peyton like you couldn't be with me because my you didn't think I could do it remember all that emphasis he was placing on the success of his book and how wrapped up his identity was and all of that

no one gives a shit about the comment and he's like okay all right you know what not a problem I'm just going to go home to my girlfriend. What I like about it too, though, is that he says it's the best thing I've ever written because it brought us back together.

Oh, yeah. Because truly sometimes the quote-unquote failure is the exact lesson you needed. It's the journey you needed. It's the experience you needed. You know, the things that don't work in the way we thought they might

teach us sometimes even more. than the things that work out exactly as planned. Absolutely. And I think there's real profundity in being able to say the point of this wasn't that the book was a success. The point of this was that I found my way back to the right person. I'm good and to be ready to move on. Yeah.

We need that. We need that lesson. And I do think, especially, you know, you think back to when the episode aired, you know, was 2008, I think it's important to see a man own that. Like, he's having a, he's having an intimate realization. He's having an emotional experience in his life. And, you know, so often I think we as women get looked at as, you know, the leaders on emotional lessons and empathy and all the things. You know, we look to the Glennons and the Brene Browns and, you know, the Dr. Tamas and the list goes on and on. But like, I like a man being like, oh, yeah, my book failed, but I got love.

I'm good. Yeah. I just like failure on these tree hill kids because so much of it is like, we're the best at everything. And I love a failure. It's such real life to fail. I was thinking that too, watching all the slam ball stuff, thinking about how lovely it is to have the time with a character to go through the arc of someone who has made pretty dramatic mistakes in life to the point where he lost a career he'd been building up his entire life, lost it in one bad choice. And then another bad choice and then lost his health for a long time and even further lost his ability to even play if there was ever a possibility. And then to be offered, it's just the way that life is. Like then something else. Another offer comes in. It's not what he

expected like you're saying so if it's not the way he thought things were going to turn out but here's another opportunity watching haley encourage him to to move into this new space i i like seeing us struggle and find plan b's and plan c and plan d and plan e i think it's beautiful and it's real life it just is one of those things reminding me like oh there's the magic of our show again that's what it is well and that's the magic in real life too perspective is ever Because Nathan could have, you're right, Joy, this is such an important parallel to what Lucas is doing, because he could have been so pissed that no one would let him try out. And that could have been the focus, all the negative stuff. But there's all these other little doors opening up. And that if you're awake to it, if you are open to it, they're always opening. You know, and the weirder they are, the better fucking slam ball. How much money? did they pay our show to be the commercial for slam ball oh my gosh they built a whole gym the whole slam ball what's wrong with me it's not a gym it's a what is it stadium it's a bounce house about yeah it's

literally a bounce house they built it on our stages they never built a real basketball court we did real basketball for years and they refused to build a court but they're like slam ball hold hold let's do this i i had such a visceral memory watching them out there, you know, James and Joe and Jackson, and going, oh my God, I remember the day Brendan Kirsch, our basketball coordinator, revealed the slam ball court on a stage, and we all were like, wait, we have a court now? Like, what's my own? And like, once they did the walk around and they had to set up, like, we all just played. And I remember being on the those trampolines with Jackson and like, you know, friends at home, obviously, you know,

like none of us is tall. We're not Joe Mangonello or James Lafferty. Like, we've never dunked. But like on a trampoline, I was like, oh my God, is this what you guys feel like when you dunk a basketball? This is sick. Like, it was so fun to get out there and play. And it added, like, a whole element of silliness to the middle of season six. Like, we, wanted to stay at work. It was like, go in a recess. You'd be like, we have 20 minutes. Can we go play on the slam ball court? It was just so fun. And so it was, there was something sweet about watching what you're saying, Joy, this newness that comes in an unexpected way, like this idea that, yes, you can have what you want, but it might not look like what you thought it was going to look

like. Yeah. And it's so, it's so sweet. And then underneath I realized I was also having that like a sweet memory of pure play and how often do you get that as an adult you don't really and it really made me nostalgic for that well apparently we do at your house with an archery and the toys once a camp counselor always a camp counselor i want everybody to play you are getting a trampoline next aren't you absolutely not all those people that have trampolines in their front yard no i will not dig the whole too many people too many people break their arms too they They stress me out. Yeah, no, no, no, it's not for me.

I'm good. Do you get caught in the springs anymore, or did they fix that? I think that was when we were kids. I think they fixed it now. Girl, I don't like bouncing. It is a feeling I don't like. I hate bouncing. I don't, my body wasn't made for it.

Got long, brittle bones. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story.

along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies.

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister condition? conspiracy. Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you just said something that actually is another theme of this episode, which is people getting what they want, but it may not look like what they thought it would. I think that's the phrase you used. But that's happening with Peyton. That's happening with Lucas. It happens with Nathan. It's happening with...

Brooke and Sam. Yeah, that was it. Brooke and Sam. And Brooke and Millie, too, even just like recapturing your childhood and all the things that you wanted and dreamed of. it's kind of happening with Dan and Deb in a weird way too, individually and together. Like the piece that they're discovering and Dan's finding a way to maybe become a better person actually maybe for the first time ever, but it definitely doesn't come with anyone else's support. It's just so interesting. I think there's something really beautiful about that

theme for everyone and particularly with this sort of culmination of the experience with Peyton and Mick because even in that first scene where I love the humor of the way you admit that you're jealous of Lindsay but you follow it with some real honesty about how this Mick thing is really getting under your skin it's making you crazy and of course it is you know you you know but you don't know you can't understand his motivation and what i love is that your version of this theme is getting the answer you needed but what it really does is it just leads you back to your dad like that phone call with you and larry at the end is so sweet and your your birth dad doesn't look like what you thought it was going to look like it's

it's not necessarily this sort of fairy tale moment, but it does answer a lot of questions for you. It tells you a lot about who you are, the connection to music and the extra information you get to find out about Ellie. It's all so special. It's not a fairy tale, but it is magical, I think. Do you remember? I remember every second of that story.

Because you guys know, John Doe is just the guy for me. I loved John Doe. And so today when I sat and I watched all these episodes catching up, like it was heavy, but it was also the entirety of the Mick Wolf arc all in one sitting. Yeah. And guys, I loved him. I loved him. This was such a shit year. Season 6 sucked because I'd like, the one life raft I'd had during the filming of the show was that I was dating the producer's son.

And in season six, I wasn't anymore. So now not only am I like in situations that I'm pissed about or I'm uncomfortable with, but now I don't even have like a place to go and vent that. I'm just entirely on my own and six. And so this this man shows up to play like a mentor to me. And in real life, he was just the most magical creature. And so it's weird to watch because I can see how giddy Peyton is. And that's like me being genuinely giddy over this man who was the biggest gentleman, you know, just like made me feel like he really liked me without any motive, without any like weirdness. Yeah. He made me feel like I was a cool person to be around. Enjoyed your company. I just can never talk about him enough, loved him. And with all of this mixed stuff, it feels like Peyton, she knows there's a present under the tree.

She knows that she can't unwrap it, but she knows that there's a nugget of something that's just hers there. And the weight is kind of excruciating. And then the unveiling of the present, you know, that sobriety trip that she finds. And you think it's mix, right? and we find out that it's not. Everything looks so different. And then it becomes such a meaningful gift to her that it was her mother's sobriety

that he is gifting back to her. I just loved every inch of that storyline. Me too. You broke my heart too. Your performance was really, really beautiful. Yeah. It was so authentic and dropped in. It was great. Hey, thanks.

Again, it was like another person and I didn't want to leave. Yeah. Yeah. I only wish that somehow Peyton had like brought up, hey, you know that you have another son too, right? Like there's this Derek fella that saved my life once. You should talk to him too, dude.

That conversation didn't happen. Yeah. Bum out. Bum out. Whatever. John Doe used to stay after work with all of the crew members and I because we had a band. And he would play with us.

And we would all geek out so hard because he's such a big deal musician. Yeah. And we were all like, cool, do you want to play House of the Rising Sun, John Doe? A bunch of nerds. Oh, it's so sweet. Whatever. I was texting with him today. He's still my sweetie.

Aw. Such a stud. Yeah, he was great. But that said, now we've got Dan. A bunch of shoddy dads in this episode. The thing I think I liked most. It is really interesting watching Dan try to redeem himself because obviously we can all understand that, look,

you're so much more than the sum of your mistakes and there's more to you than the worst thing you've ever done. But the worst thing Dan's ever done, like, how do you forgive it? And I thought that scene between Paul and James in the hallway when Nathan walks in and asks him if, you know, he's reminiscing. And you get to hold that for Nathan and Lucas, who Dan is is unforgivable, and for Jamie, Dan is a hero.

And what do you do with that? You know, Nathan says, I don't know where that leaves us. But it's so true. It's like, you know, you can be the hero. to so many people and the villain to someone else you how do you hold space for all of these realities and and this one is so extreme obviously because hello it's one trail it's a teen drama like yeah it's not like well you hurt this person and this other person you rescued it's like no you literally saved one person's life and murdered another didn't he literally just he literally

killed another person like Jesus it's so intense but you know it's um it's a really big question to hang in the air. You know, what do you, what do you do with this? When it's so extreme, when it's so evil and also, you're so thankful for this person. Like, without Dan, Jamie and Haley and Deb might all be dead. Like, you know, it's so complicated. And I like that they just let it sit there. And I like that it was dark in the hallway.

It all felt a little surreal and magical. and sad. The first time Dan actually seems remorseful in a way that is not selfish to me. For the first time ever, I've seen him appear remorseful, not because I feel bad because I can't have my way. It was like, this is bad. This whole thing is bad. and I've done something bad to you.

Like he was seeing for the first time how his actions have affected other people. Yeah, but he's also still doing weird shit. Like, send and Deb all those roses. And like, there's still Dan Scott in there. Yeah, but like nobody changes overnight. I mean, it's like if it takes you one bad decision after another slowly to get you into a place where you turn into a,

monster is it one right decision after another to walk you out of it yeah i don't know i don't know either it was interesting to me though he is in this different space he does and i and look i think a near-death experience i think nearly losing someone or losing someone you love can shift your whole world i've i've certainly experienced both and it is it's seismic it's like an earthquake like nothing is the same. But it is interesting that he is having this experience and everyone around him is like, no, we've set our boundaries with you. And he sends Deb these flowers and there's something sort of poetic for her that she is too little too late, getting what she needed and deserved from Dan and is like, no, absolutely not. And in the moment where she, she holds up her boundary,

the present situation that, you know, doesn't look like she thought it was going to look like. I'm sure she didn't think one of Nathan's friends was going to become her boyfriend. And here is this sweet man, oh my God, obsessed. Here is this sweet man. The minute she literally throws Dan in the trash, here's a guy at her door with flowers for no reason other than he thinks she deserves them. And it's like, what a, what an. energetic shift for her, you know? Yes.

I just love the skills keeps asking, like, why is no one taking this seriously? I know. And I hate it for him because he says, I don't even know what episode it's in, but he says at some point my last serious relationship with, was Bevin. And I'm like, what are they doing? He's a good looking, successful man. What do you mean in our little time jump? He didn't have, like, a couple hot serious relationships.

I hate that they have this huge gap in blondes for Antoine. But I can, if he is so inexperienced in dating, I love that they have it so serious for him. That they, you know, to him, this is going somewhere potentially. He is comfortable. Yeah. I mean, I like it for Deb, too. She's younger than us.

The comedy of her watching. them play basketball. You're doing great, honey. And thanks. I yelped. So good. That was so funny. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think if I would be mad if my parent was dating my friend. I don't know. Yeah, it'd be really strange. I don't think I'd be mad. It would just be really weird. Yeah, I don't think I would love it. But what if it was actually more fun? Do you know what I mean? Like, think, hmm, think hangouts.

Just like, I was going to invite you anyway. Here you are. Yeah, but the thing is, with your friend, like, you talk about stuff. And, like, I don't want to know stuff about my parent. Everybody in Tree Hill already knows Deb's stuff, man. She has spent decades just sharing stuff. If anything, Antoine Skills is going to help her lock it back down. Like, maybe just bring it down enough.

She's not on the apps anymore, is she? No, I don't think so. See? Things are looking up. I don't think so. Now she's not bringing clowns over to the house. Yeah. You know?

She is such good comedic relief in this, because even when they see Dan at the Riverwalk, you know, she just, which she's really getting good at is being apathetic and just diffusing the situation instead of letting it affect anyone anymore. She's not letting it affect skills. She's not letting it affect Jamie.

She's not letting it affect Nathan. It's just, hey, this is not even an issue. We're good. Excellent modeling of lovingly detached. Hands off. Except that hand on the butt walking away. What? You know what was so weird about that is as they were walking away, and Dan was talking

about how it hurt, I was like, they wouldn't go so far as to have skills grab her butt in front of Dan, right? And as I'm thinking this, it cuts back, and he's got to. And I went, oh, yeah, okay, we really went for it. We really went for it. Paul's reactions were great, too. They were so subtle and... Yeah.

He had a good haircut in this episode. He looked great in this episode. He really did. I loved this haircut on him. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing

for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit.

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sense? sinister conspiracy. Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I have to say, I think one of the things I enjoyed watching him do the most in this episode

was be, he was like a jolly scrooge and maybe I'm, maybe that's the metaphor I'm coming up with because it was just the holidays. But him sort of stomping out the childhood magic, but also like just undoing ridiculous lies. Like, no, you don't get a wish for every Brussels sprout you eat. Like, because it wasn't like telling a kid, Sanchez. is not real. It wasn't like some horrible thing. It was just, it was so funny to me. It felt like he was just like stepping on glitter a little bit, and I liked it. The grown-ups lie thing. And when it came right out of that scene where Peyton finds Mick drunk

on the coffee table, or on the pool table. And I loved that. It was like, Mick is clearly lying to her and being like a huge asshole. And it cuts right to Dan being like, grown-ups lie, kid. What do you want? Yeah. You know? I like that heredity. Yeah. I like that both Peyton and Mick were really mean to each other in that scene.

She comes in so judgy with such a bad temper and he meets her with such a bad temper. And it was like, oh, you two are related. This is genetic. It was fun. It was fun watching them together. But then what else is genetic? We've got Victoria and Brooke. Yeah, exactly.

How did you feel about this about like, is this when you first started skydiving, Sophie? when Brooke started talking about wanting to do this? Yeah, it's so funny because there were so many things on that list that are like things from my list. And I was like, oh, wow, I forget that our lives and our dreams and all of our conversations were mined for content for our show. But the thing I love is that Brooke is her number one go-to is like, okay, well, what are we going to do for work? What are we going to do about this empty story? Oh, you have ideas, okay, pitch him to me. She's always ready to work, to show up for the job.

And it gave me this really weird feeling where I was like, oh, man, I am like that. Like, I think we all, we were raised to be like that. You know, we did. We were so lucky, obviously, to do this job for as long as we did. But when your first job lasts for this long, you also get cultured to do the job in the exact way it happens on that. set and so there were a lot of things we didn't know we're bad or inappropriate until we got older yeah and there's something i've had to really sort of examine in this season about what it is

to be a performer you can be a you know a theater performer a visual performer performance athlete like whatever the thing is where you have to show up and put your body and your brain on the line it can really culture you out of knowing what you need or feeling your feelings because you're like I'm part of this team and here I go and for my crew and it was it gave me this weird like deep in my bones feeling of recognition to watch the scene and it gave me really nostalgic sweetness for all of what we've been able to do as as groups of friends what we did for each other then what we've done for each other since we started this podcast like these sort of circles of healing and Millie really represents that she's like well yeah before

you can fix the work stuff, it's about your heart. Like, you have to heal your soul before you can heal your company. And I was like, wow, I didn't realize that that sort of cycle was always going to remain true through life. But like, that's what we all decided to do together in 2020. And I love that in Brooke Davis's world, when her mother was the person who always said no, no, you can't dream that, no, you can't do that. No, that's not practical, because we've all had our own versions of those in our real life. Millie, like you both have at times for me, like some of my other best friends have at times for me, was the one who was like, don't let anybody tell you no.

And by the way, while she's being rude and telling you know, I'm just going to keep this list for you and remind you of all the things you've said you wanted to do when it's time. And I was like, wow, we do that. The listening is so important. The fact that you had no idea that she was listening. No. Oh, that reaction you gave. for when you realized that she had been listening the whole time. Yeah.

A little tear was so beautiful. And she's the one. You know, she's the one who says welcome to someday. Yeah. I was like, that's where it comes from. And it just, I don't know, it really, it felt so special for the arc of this character that I have loved for so long and that I loved to play for so long. And it felt really true across these decades.

for all of us as women then, for all of us as women now, I was like, shit, this is one of those moments where I go, I get why people say there's magic in this show, because that, like, I see myself in this person. And I know how many people have watched this show and seen themselves in that scene as well. Yeah. Yeah, you want to be both people in that scene. You want to be the friend that's able to show up and have listened all those years and show up with the magical moment. And you want to be the recipient of it as well. Yeah. But then Haley shows up and she's actually the person that can facilitate one of those lifelong goals. This whole, this whole coercion with Sam where it's like, Sam, you're in a car, baby.

Yeah. I like the scenes between Haley and Sam. Yeah, me too. I mean, Haley put herself out there with Quentin and investing in a child that's not your own is a gamble. Mm-hmm. And to see her do it again so openly is nice. Because it would be really easy for her to be like, you know what, I'm going to create a boundary.

Yeah. I'm not going to get into my students' personal lives. That hurt. That hurt. I don't like it. Well, and you know what I liked about that too. Sometimes, and I know we've talked about this, sometimes when we have to do exposition on the show

when there's been a time jump or whatever, the lines feel clunky. I actually wrote a note about how I loved the way they talked about. the time jump on that walk-and-talk with Haley and Nathan when you and James are walking through the quad. It feels sweet. Yeah, it's like it's an easy. The energy of it is easy and almost like, you know, it's a throwaway. We're not like hitting the nail over the head too hard. But we make it clear that you've had a moment. You're dressed. I literally wrote like, oh my God, Joy looks so grown up. Yeah. Like, you know, you've put on this nice outfit. You're coming back to school. It's been two weeks.

And Nathan's there with you And he's walking you in So you don't have to go in alone And then there's this nostalgia for high school Like you didn't know you could cut through shop class And he tells you you're a nerd I loved that It just feels hopeful and sweet

And like yeah, it's cute It's romantic It reminds us of you guys in high school And then the jolt of Sam being in the car You just don't see it coming Yeah And it all felt like authentic and real it was such a real way to find this yeah it wasn't overly dramatized it didn't feel

soapy it it felt really present and and yeah maybe maybe it is to your point Hillary it's like she's had just enough time to not react out of fear but instead to go like oh this is my chance to dive back into what I'm good at I am going to keep showing up I am I am I am going to reclaim all the good things that I know how to do instead of be afraid or stay away any longer, you know? Yeah, I think everybody has something or things inside of them that really lights them up. And everybody can't do everything for everyone in the world. You know, we all have like these pockets of areas where we have passion for something

that we're really, and we have the capability, it's like somehow we have the capability to fulfill the needs for whatever the space is where the passion is, right? And I think that's true about Haley here, about caring for the students and where some other people might have needed to just set up a boundary like you're saying Hill and go, I'm not going to get involved in the lives of my students anymore. It's just too much. I can't bring it home. But this is her zone. It's like what she was born to do is help help these kids. She's always had a pass. She's a tutoring in high school. She was always looking out for people. She's from this family of kids that are all looking out for each other. And it's just her zone. And I often think, too, specifically in the areas

in our life where we excel and are really gifted, the most, I don't know if attack is the right word, but the most opposition. We meet the most resistance and often will get pushed down so far where we have to question, like, do I really want to keep going and keep doing this? And I like seeing that Haley is still just getting back up and going. And like, she's not going to take no for an answer. This is who she is. This is what she needs, what she wants to give, how she's able to serve. And she's doing it. And I'm happy. She's a producer. I mean, the thing about producing that we all know is that it's really just about matching things. It's just a matching game. It's like this matches with this. And this skill set matches with this. Yeah, it's really.

And Haley does that as an artist. We saw her do it with Chris Keller. It was like, you're terrible, but our voices match. And she's able to do that with Mia. And so to be able, once you start doing that in one capacity in your life, it kind of bleeds over into everything else. And so watching her produce this relationship between Sam and Brooke and just know, like, this is going to be a hit. I like this. It's so good.

And you know what I like, too, is that none of it's so easily won. I liked that they didn't just make it. Haley pitches Brooke this idea, and Brooke goes great. Yeah, tie it up with a bow. Yeah, we really got to sort of back and forth about what felt hard, what didn't feel right. You say, given what Jamie's just been through, I can't bring a teenager into this house. I say, given what's going on in my life, I can't take in a teen. Like, I don't even, I don't know what my job is.

That was so funny, by the way. You were like, she's so young. She's so old. She's so old. I loved that. That was really cute. I loved it. I know. They really did give, they gave me some stuff I really enjoyed playing in this episode.

Do I look 35 to you? Oh, my God. Do I look? You know, but it is so funny. Like, the, we managed to do this balance in this storyline somehow. of a lot of humor and a lot of heart. And I really enjoyed that you would see these little moments kind of creep in. You know, the way Haley talks to Brooke about Jamie, the way Peyton talks to Brooke about her dad.

Oh, I loved that scene. Any couch scenes are our sweet spot. It's like, I just, I don't even think Peyton's that physically comfortable with Lucas. We lay in bed together And kind of big spoon, little spoon But when Brooke and Peyton are on a sofa Shit is just tangled and comfortable Yes

We're fully spiderwebbed Either I'm snotting on my own self Or you are like I love those scenes Because that's what that's what women do I mean that's what I do in my close relationships Just snot on my loved ones And then make cookies Oh, Brookies!

I love that this is where they came from. I forgot that Brookies were based on Brooks' obsession with Martha Stewart, which just kills me because I am obsessed with Martha Stewart. That's really funny. Yeah, it was like, remember second grade? You found out how much money Martha Stewart was making and decided to launch a baking business. Like, it is just, it's so funny. And we get to reminisce about what a good dad Larry was. Well, and so for Peyton to draw that parallel between Larry and Brooke, I think is really important, because those are the two constants in her life.

But I think everyone holds Larry in such high esteem. And so for Brooke to see herself as a potential Larry, there's a lot of self-worth in that that isn't career-based. And that's what we're getting over and over again in this episode, too. It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. Yeah, that was it. That was with Lucas and with mouth coming home. And with Nathan, yeah.

And I think there's something for everybody in this episode, they're realizing like, well, what else is there? And I think there's also something very special about Peyton being able to share about Mick and what it's teaching her about Larry reminds Brooke of who she can be. And there's something about sharing with Brooke that reminds Peyton about. how lucky she has been to have these the parents that she had and and in a way even though they're having the same conversation they're both getting exactly what they need individually as women from the from the lesson in it and it's cool to watch that happen to both of us

on screen at the same time yeah like i liked watching myself realize that if as brook i get to be like Larry, whoa, could I be that for Sam? And I loved watching you telling me about Mick and Larry and being like, I don't need Mick to be the fantasy dad because I already have the best dad. Like, it was so neat to watch realizations hit two people at the same time, even though the realizations were totally different. It's a really smart tie-in by that writer's room. Man, they really, they locked that one in. It's good. They really did. I just wish we saw Larry. Where the fuck is Larry? I know. Why can't we have him? I want him to answer that phone. Love that guy. Yeah, but you know that was somebody in business affairs being like, that scene is two eighths

of a page. We shan't be paying a guest star fee for that. And it's like, but maybe you could because it would have just been better. Oh, man, in a perfect world, I just want all my parents in one place. Yeah, man. Perfect. What did we miss? I love how famous mouth has become. And Luke isn't jealous of it. I'm really enjoying Lucas this season, I have to say, and I felt it again in this episode. Like he, there's just a groundedness. I don't know what it is. What is it? Well, I wonder if it's because Lucas's storyline is less performative. You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't have to be the superstar or like the star-crossed lover. Like, it's not, he just gets to be a guy learning stuff about himself. I feel like, I don't know if you've had a season in your life.

Like this where like you just get the shit kicked out of you and you just kind of go, you know what? I'm just going to take a break. And you just kind of like coast through the next, I don't know, six months a year, like whatever. And you're just going, yeah, I'm just going to listen and I'll just be around and I just don't really have the energy to dive into a lot of stuff right now. Like I'm beat. And I think Lucas has kind of had his ass kicked in a lot of ways. He's been going through a lot and up and down and just trying to figure out. Like now he's got this woman that he loves.

It's finally locked in. Yeah, his book didn't do well. But he's kind of like, all right. Fine. I don't have the energy. I just want to be here and be around the people I love. Yeah. And he says the right things.

Like when Peyton calls him, I like how Lucas talks to her. He's just like, tell me what's going on. It's just everything's, for all the games that he's still playing with Lindsay, like, oh, I forgot to tell you. Yeah. With Peyton, they are just. they just say what they think now and it's really it feels safe

and maybe that's what it is I feel like Lucas feels safe that's it yes safety is the most attractive thing on a person for sure yeah it sure is

and I think that's what enables that really gorgeous scene between Lucas and mouth at the airport like they're finishing each other's sentences almost like a couple because they're having the same

realizations that that whole thing dream job or dream girl dream girl no contest like they're volleying the words back and forth like a tennis match and it's so fun because you see these two men going we actually have everything we want let's let's just go get it yeah it is it's a safety it's a settledness that feels it's it's like grounded it's more grown up he's just he's growing up our lucas is he's such a big boy It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn SageBurn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes

conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yes, that's right. Lock her up.

Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Tara wants to know what do you think each of your characters brings to their friendships with the other, for example. Who is Haley for Payton and who is Haley for Brooke? Oh, gosh. Haley. How long do we have? Go. She specifically named you. I don't know. I feel like it'd be easier for me to say what maybe Peyton and Brooke are for Haley rather than to... Yeah, then let's do that. Yeah. I guess I feel like there's a sense of playfulness in Brooke that Haley needs in her life, that she's holding on to so much responsibility and the lightheartedness in their friendship is really fun to watch. I think Haley was, you know, was always drawn to that with Brooke, the not taking things too seriously and the irreverence and sort of just, hey, life's messy. Come on, let's be a mess.

And Haley's like, oh, God, I don't know how to be a mess. This is not natural for me. And with Peyton, I mean, she's the woman, she's the girl and the woman that her best friend growing up fell in love with. And so she knows there's such a depth there. You know, the literary prowess, the deep desire. I think it's maybe a little harder for Brooke to have the deep conversations because she's trying to hold up a facade of so many things in a lot of ways.

And it feels like Peyton, for some reason, although even though I know she's been angry a lot in the course of this show. and hostile is also. Hostel is a great word. But she cracks pretty easy, and I think it's like for some reason her and Peyton have an easy way of communicating and it's like there's a safe, a safe zone. I'm talking too much.

I'm taking up time. Go. I hope any of that made sense. No, of course that made sense. I think for Peyton, Haley is a muse, right? Like having someone who's so talented that can do. all the things that you can't do. Like, Payton can't play music, but she loves it.

Payton can't get up in front of a group and sing, but, like, being a part of that world is her dream. And so having a collaborator in Haley, having a person that she can cheerlead for, I love. People talk shit about cheerleaders. They're devalued within the school ecosystem because it's, you know, whatever. There is no other club in any school. that is all about centering other people. Cheerleaders know how to center other people.

And so Peyton gets to center Haley in a way. Yeah, she's a stoker. She's like a fire stoker. I love that. I think it's a fun, I mean, she encourages Haley like, yeah, go date Nathan. Yeah, go out on tour. Yeah, come out of retirement and do this album.

Having someone that you can believe in is an important thing. And then having that person be a person of value. and substance, makes it really safe to believe in them. You know, Haley's never going to let Peyton down. And then I would say for Brooke, that balance of frivolity but also earnestness, there's a secret keeping sisterhood there where it's like, hey, we've been the ones whispering in a corner since we were in second grade, you know, like you know that I'm a baby, but no one else can know that I'm a baby.

And Brooks' ability to pull Peyton out of dark places. I think that it, you know, we joke about it being a love story, but there is a yin and yang there that works in relationships and friendships and it's, you know, you have to be with your match, not your double. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I, and that's something that I really identify with.

like in terms of the character, you know, and I think Brooke and Peyton because of the years of their friendship have been that for each other. There really is like a seesaw or a yin and yang. And it's really interesting because the length of all of our friendships have shown me that reflecting on these relationships on camera has shown me things where I'm like, God, they really did capture certain things. Like as much as our characters are our characters, they captured certain things about us as women really well. Yeah, yeah. And I was catching up with my girlfriend from my job in Chicago,

and she was like, yeah, that's you. Like, I was pregnant and moving, and you came over every night after a 16-hour day and unpacked my house for me until it was done. I was like, oh, yeah, I did that. I forgot. Yeah. And there's something about that.

Like, it encapsulates who we are in our lives and what we did on camera, like that Brooke and Peyton could get each other through the loss of parents, whether it be a death or abandonment, that we could do it by, you know, laughing and building igloos and baking cookies or, you know, showing up just to lay and cry. Yeah. To tell those secrets and to be able to do both. And what I think I've realized is that they were always, you know, the yin and yang.

They were tweedledy and tweedledum. They were the siblings for their whole lives. even though they weren't actually siblings. And what I've come to realize through watching the six seasons of the show so far is that Brooke and Haley find that, almost like steps siblings do. Like your parents get married and suddenly you live with another teenager. Yeah, because we were thrust together. Yeah, it's like Brooke and Haley in the beginning are like,

I don't have anything in common with you. Yeah, like, why are we together right now? And then it's like, oh, wait, we actually have so much in common. We do it differently. but we want to help everyone. We want to put everybody first. We were searching for our identities and often like making sure everyone else has what they need.

Yeah, they're both really loyal too, by the way. And like didn't, you know, I just made me think of that when you said that just now. That Haley, her whole family is just dispersed. Like who's there for her loyally except for Brooke who's always showing up? And it's like there is a ferocious loyalty here. and I almost wonder if kind of like magnets, like at first they hit on the wrong sides

and they go the other way and then they're like, oh, we fit together this way and we actually fit really, really well. Yeah. And in a way, I feel like it's this, it's this like mirror, mirrored energy of relationship. One is new and one is old, but really what we come back to is this like, it's a sisterhood. It's a, it's a, I can tell you anything. And I know I, that you will take care of me. And I know you will also call me out when I need it.

And I know you will understand my motivation when I fail. And you will cheer me on when I succeed. And like, there's something, again, I think it's why we always come back to this phrase. It's like, it's why the three of us are doing this. It's the women. It's like our friendships really are the love story. Yeah. And it's really cool.

It's cool to see. That was a good question, Tara. Sorry we flipped it on its head, but it felt better that one. Hopefully you enjoyed it. Spin in the wheel. What do we got? Let's spin this wheel. Most likely to...

Oh, Lord. Leave their luggage on a plane. Oh, boy. Who is that Scatterbrand? It would never be me. It would never be me. I could never. But who could?

Character, you would? You would? You leave luggage on a plane? A thousand percent I could leave luggage on a plane. Are you kidding me? I am always daydreaming. It's lucky that I get off planes with my electronics intact most of the time. Somewhere in Atlanta are my earbuds, but who knows? Oh, boy.

Yeah. Okay. All right. I don't know. Which character? That feels like Rachel. That feels like Rachel in the Dan Scott era, you know, being like, I have a jet. someone gets my luggage for me yeah that's right i'll sign it i'll go sign on that it's good i love it

hey what do we have um next episode season six episode seven messing with the kid sounds like we're getting ready for we're getting ready to rumble okay sounds fun i can't wait when we're slam ball yeah all right we'll see you guys later hi hey thanks for listening don't forget to leave us a review you can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.Harendh. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl.

Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could treat the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop.

Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of 10, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.