Drama Queens - Pillow Talk • Ep 906

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

This episode takes bed hopping to a whole new level! That post-coital scene with Chase prompts a conversation about comforters, bed buddies, and bed sheets! Find out whether the queens would even consider sitting in their friends (soiled!?) bed linens. Meanwhile, the girls pick apart the holes in the kidnapping plot line, and Rob reveals why he had to give direction on the set when he wasn’t even the director! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Who wants to do it? Who's jumping in the pool first? We got a lot to talk about in this episode. We sure do. Welcome back, everyone. Hi, friends. Hey, hi. All right, so we're on season nine, episode six, catastrophe and the cure, which aired February 15th, 2012.

Okay, here's the synopsis. Dan enlists Julian. Well, rather Julian asks to help out with Dan's search for Nathan. Mouth, also assisting Dan, fills Clay in about Nathan as Haley explains Nathan's disappearance to Jamie. Brooke gets an idea of how to bring patrons to an empty Karen's cafe, creating quite a kerfuffle. And Chris Keller confronts Chase about Tara. And several puns were missed in this episode. We'll get to them.

And it was directed by our very dear friend, Mr. James. James Lafferty and written by Roger Grant. This synopsis is funny because it's each line is like one scene in the episode. Yeah. I guess Julian and Dan is technically two scenes. Mouth with Clay is one scene. Haley explaining to, I mean, a lot more happens the episode. Like this kind of covers it, but as we were reading, I'm going like, this is eight scenes.

Yeah. It feels like a very surface description. Like someone at Hulu was in a rush. And was like, I don't know, this, this. Yeah. Skip. Skip. Okay. Dan and Julian skip. Yeah. Yeah. There's just so much. There's so much happening in this episode. There's just a lot to cover. I actually have never, I don't think I've watched an episode of our show where I was like, how are we going to get through all of this in an hour? Yeah. Did you guys have the same reaction or were you not as worried? I guess I wasn't as worried. There were things I really liked. about the episode, I think what's hard for me, and look, I think everyone's doing a really beautiful job with the crisis, but it just, like we get into this room, I mean, let's get into it,

we get into this room, and it feels, it almost feels like a camp version of itself. Yeah. And I'm like, really, like even, thank God they wrote that line. You know, Roger Grant wrote, line for James to say where he's like over a basketball player because this really feels silly it's just so silly this feels like dan scott going for a heart transplant in mexico but just the crazies dialed down like two or three notches but then it's also not two scenes it's it's the universe we're going to live in for most of the season and it's i feel so conflicted because the device is so great for everyone involved. Even the misdirect joy with you and I.

Like Brooke running to Haley's to be like, I know why you're mad at me, I'm so sorry. And then learning what happened, it's like it's giving us the moment of comedic relief we need. It's giving everybody shock and fear and watching everyone, the Quinn and Haley stuff, the clay finding out with mouth.

Like seeing Dan show up, seeing Julian kind of get right-sided by, oh, I should not be so self-indulgent. There are real scary problems that happen to people. Like, I love the device of it. And then you've got these guys quoting Shakespeare in a basement. And I'm like, this is so dumb. So both?

It's the dumbest. I agree with you. The device is great for the show and for the storytelling. But once we have to live in the world of the device itself, it is so camp. It's like the fact that, yeah, They're quoting. I wish. It's overwritten only because he has to fill up time.

Here is my question. These Eastern European gangsters were hired by some Eastern European gangster kingpin, who, by the way, dumbest line of the episode is when Nathan goes, this is insane over a baseball, basketball player, that's insane. And the guy goes, no, no, insane is crossing a man who pays his players in cash from a suitcase chain to his wrist. Okay, that's not a flex, man. that's just that's the boss never has the thing handcuffed to his wrist that's right no okay so here's my question though that's literal evidence in public it would never happen

never it's okay so that's bad but there is a transgression they this kingpin gets word that some american agent is sniffing around one of his best players this is all happening in the cuts of eastern europe yes here's my issue why doesn't he kidnap nathan in Eastern Europe on his home turf because here's what I get curious is that he goes, you know what's a better idea? I'm going to buy plane tickets for three for sure convicts with a criminal record from this area. I'm going to have them just wing it in a town they've never been to, finding a warehouse, kidnapping a guy, getting a getaway vehicle without licenses.

I just don't understand why the kidnapping didn't happen in Eastern Europe. No one does. And there was no warning. there was no like hey heads up get out of here this is not the player this ain't the player you want you better you better bounce or something bad's going to happen to you none of that he's just all of a sudden back home in tree hill where it's so small everybody could find him eventually yeah it's like what these four guys were on his flight and just followed him outside how did they know where to go and then to your point rob it's like it it jumps the shark in a way because what it assumes in that

level of camp is like, oh, every member of organized crime just shoots people all day, every day, totally NBD. Murder is a big deal, whether you are like an aboveboard citizen or a criminal. It's a really big fucking deal. And the idea that they're like, yeah, we're just going to follow you home and shoot you as soon as our phone rings. Not even by the way, getting the order when the cell phone rings, you got to die. It's like, it makes no sense. I never. Did you, hear at any other point in the episode anyone say when the phone rings he dies like so at least we were sitting there waiting the whole time with bathed breath like i hope the phone doesn't ring i hope the phone doesn't ring no it just suddenly rings like any other normal phone and we're like okay

who is it whatever and then suddenly it's like oh the phone rang it time to die but then the guy doesn't shoot him okay so he's the one that's standing there going like i've got two wives and a million children six kids right and he's like i'm ready to shoot you okay okay big man but then comes in the other guy who legitimately was a lot scarier to me than the other guy. Fully agree. Yep. But he was so realistic and scary that I didn't understand why he was just standing there threatening like the phone is ringing. It's time to kill him. That guy would have walked in the room and just shot him in the forehead immediately. 100%. I didn't understand why they didn't have like, okay, he can be sitting there having an argument with the guy and then with the Shakespeare guy

and then say, no, that's it. And then go to reach for his gun. Shakespeare turns around, shoots him in front of everybody and then turns around to Nathan and says, we talked about it. I'm going to ransom you instead. Like, it would have been action. It would have been exciting. So many things would have been happening. But this weird, like, I'm just standing here threatening to kill you any second now. And by the way, to your point, there's no person who's going to risk a murder charge without warning. And like just to close that loop, it would have been so easy when Clay says he told me he was going to go off the beaten path. He didn't like any of these players to mouth to be like it made me nervous.

And the next time I texted him, he said, yeah, didn't go well. They're not thrilled. I'm here. Yeah. But I found someone promising anything to suggest maybe they did threaten him. And he was like, buzz off. Which I don't know why Nathan would have done, but it also could have been a mistake. Like maybe they left a message with Clay.

But Clay has all this other drama going on. life he forgot and didn't relay the message to Nathan. They don't have a receptionist because they're an upstart. So it's on the voicemail at the office. That's right. And so now it's Clay's fault that Nathan is missing. Like at least rope clay in a little bit. Also the quite possibly the weirdest flex in the history of One Tree Hill is Nathan going, hey, come on, guys, I have a wife in kids. And then with the emotional maturity of a six year old, he's clearly the worst bad guy because He has facial hair, and this is the CW, goes, so what? I have two wives and six kids.

I'm like, what kind of pissing match did we just walk into between what? That was odd, but here's what they should have done, in my opinion. Everyone's American. And what we find out is the Eastern European Kingpin, he just hired a couple guys on the ground who have no emotional investment and are just cold. Yes. Yeah. Like our park drug dealer would have been fine to bring him back.

him would have been, yes. Why not? Why not? Okay. But the idea that he, he, like, if you just think of, if you walk through the logistics that this kingpin was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, send in someone to find out his itinerary. And then Jake and Joe, fly to America. Get your driver's license. Steak out a warehouse. Like, it's just crazy town. It's crazy. But by the way, this is part of it. You got to think through these things a little better because they want it to happen in Tree Hill because they want to see. say he came home and no one knows what happened. So we can think maybe it was Dan. And as we all know, getting to the end of the season, we want to give Dan Scott his Night and Shining Armour moment. So it has to happen on the ground. So people can hop in the car and do the thing. And we can know why in the flash forward Chris Keller said to Dan,

Chris Keller doesn't like this. So to your point, Rob, just hire some dudes that are on the Eastern Seaboard of America. Local dudes. They could have been New Yorkers. They could have had a Bronx accent. It seemed like they're from the Sopranos, drove down to a treadmill. Yep. Not that hard.

Okay, also, who is the guy in the coma and this woman that lets these two strangers into her home when he flashes a DGA card with a busted up face and the mayor who's clearly famous in tree? Like, who are these people? The fact that they go on a tour that I agree with you, Joy, this, I laughed out loud at this part. that she just goes, hey, you know what? It's nighttime. You're two grown men I've never met. And one of you looks like you've been brutalized.

Come on in. Yes, clearly Fight Club. Come into my house. Yeah. That the next scene we see is that they are unattended, which that's what you would do, in the room of a man on life support. Yeah. Like, what is this woman?

And then the woman comes back like, I thought I recognized you. No urgency? Here's your book. She literally has his book in her house. house. He's that famous in Tree Hill. Yeah. And he shows up at her door. She doesn't recognize him. To your point of no urgency, her next line is, my husband was blackmailing you. If the guy your husband was blackmailing, showed up at your house in the middle of the night with a doo-doo looks like he got hit in the face with a crowbar. Yeah. Wouldn't you be panicked? Even if you didn't know he was the guy your husband was blackmailing, if you know your husband is the type of person, two blackmail people and two thugs show up at your house. Yeah.

I'm like, what? But who are they? Do we know who they are? Yes. Well, I mean, it's explained in this episode, but we haven't seen them prior. Yes. So Dan is explaining to Julian when he's obviously looking for some purpose and goes to see him in the trailer that he's rented him at the stages. Yeah.

Dan is talking about how he's making a list of all of his enemies. And Rachel's on the list. And back when he was with Rachel, he wrote a book and he cheated the system and he got a guy he was in prison with to buy him into being a bestseller on day one of public. and so the guy that he was in prison with wanted interest and then when Dan got his he says to Julian when he got his talk show the guy wanted more money because he threatened to out him for having lied about his book and so he kept having to pay the guy and when the guy when the talk show got canceled the guy he was paying from prison was very unhappy and maybe he had something to do with it but we never saw any of this in the season with Rachel we never saw any of this in the season with

We never saw any of this. And by the way, the craziest part of it is, the guy was in prison with Dan. How did the guy get out of prison? How long has he been out of prison? Now he's on life support. Like, it's such, it's such thinly laid brick. It doesn't work. It may look different, but native culture is very,

Very Alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore. explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am a huge fan of murder mysteries. I read them a lot. I have done since high school. And one common theme in many not great murder mysteries is when they don't give you all the information.

The author doesn't know how to give you all the information basically ahead of time and tell you everything, you just don't know how to put it together. The best ones are made up of where you sit down and you have all the puzzles. pieces, you just can't quite figure out how to put them together until, until the end. Yeah. This storyline reminds me of that where it's just like, oh, by the way, this completely side character that I never discussed and never alluded to and never even told you that your main character happened to live in another country and met this person in their past. And they're telling me on page 240, I'm just like, I never would have had a shot to figure this out.

Why are you wasting my time? And to your point, when it's not central to the story, whether you were taking notes, whether you were grabbing your lunch out of the fridge, if you can miss the linchpin of the story in 47 seconds, it's not a good pin. I don't, I'm going to, I'm going to push back on that one. Oh. Usual suspects. We got 10 seconds of Kevin Spacey's gate and his walk changing at the end of the movie. To be fair, that continues on, though. But there were clues if you go back and watch the movie again, you're like, oh, all the

breadcrumbs were there. Like the whole package of information was there. I just couldn't put it all together because there was like one piece missing. Like, okay, one big chunk is missing and that's what you have to find. But when there's like 10 chunks missing and suddenly at the end the author or the writer or whatever is just going, oh, yeah, well, and I guess this happened and maybe this. And they had the secret brother and they've got to see. And you're just like, what?

Yeah. Strike what I said from the record. You're right. So if I agree with you, I would argue, though, that the bigger problem I had with it, to me, the bigger issue is, so this guy agrees to buy 10,000 copies of Dan's book. Yeah. Dan becomes a bestseller. It's obviously successful enough to warrant him getting a talk show. Yeah.

I don't think that man has any sort of actual leverage. Because by that point, if he goes, I'll out you that I bought 10,000 books. Who cares? I have a talk show. Dan could just go, I guess he was a big fan. Like it, to me, also, Dan, Dan is Dan. You think he's going to get pushed around by that guy? No.

With that little piece of blackmail, it's, it's no. But here, here's why the scene actually, though, I love it. You ready? You got your tinfoil hats nearby? Okay. Putting him on. Dan is doing too much. I am more convinced than ever that he is behind this.

And here's why. Sharks, I'm coming to you to invest in my fan theory of Dan Scott. actually being the perpetrator of Nathan's kidnapping. And what I have for you today is this. Why does he go to Julian to rent a trailer? For three, he didn't ask for a favor for free. For $3,000 a month, you could have a really nice hotel room. You could have a whole entire house on a hill with no neighbors.

Yeah. It is odd that he goes to someone so centrally involved in this core group of friends to rent out a tiny trailer. for a lot of money. It's high visibility. And then he ropes, well, Julian asked to, but he allows Julian to become part of what I think is an absolute fake witch hunt. He knows this guy has nothing to do with it. This is just a fool's errand demonstrating to Julian how hard he's working to figuring this out. And trying to gain trust in town with people. Now he's got Quinn's trust. Now he's got Mouth's trust. Now he's got Julian's trust.

Why did he need to go back to Haley and be like, you would just talk to you? If he was really just committed, go away and do your Liam Neeson and taken business, buy yourself quietly, and then just come back with it done. Everything he was doing to me felt a bit performative. Interesting. And to your point, this is $3,000 a month for a trailer on a soundstage lot in 2012. Yeah. Like $3,000 a month could rent you a house in 2025. You know what I mean?

It strikes me For a guy who's lost everything Who supposedly has not a dime left to his name Needed to stay in his son and daughter-in-law's house Where's all this money coming from? Well, he did say he has $65,000 And insurance money he got from burning his cafe Oh, right, he told the cops that

But here's the deal. Okay, rather than spend $3,000 on two legal pads and a crappy small trailer, spend $3,000 on two private investigators in a hotel room. Yep. It's fishy, gang. It's fishy.

I literally recorded this. This is Dan in the police station, this line. Is it what I think about it? Oh, yeah. I lit the dealership fire, almost bringing myself to death in the process, just so I'd have an excuse to murder my own brother. And serve a full term in jail.

Get released. Get a third-ruled heart train. plant. Then went to book, start my own motivational talk show, give it my newfound fortune. I moved to a remote daughter just so I could burn it down and collect the $65,000 insurance policy and get rid of my son. I'm moving with his family who hates me. Thanks, you caught me. It's so good. It's so good. What is he defending in that? What I'm kidding. Okay, so he's, I don't understand how that is relevant to Nathan's kidnapping because he actually did all of those things, correct? Right. He did.

But that's what's so interesting is Dan's, what I wrote down is the absurdity of Dan's story is actually his best offense. Because when he lists it out loud, it sounds insane. And so, of course, the cop is like, right, that sounds insane. But we know it's true. And then that he has the nerve to be like, what's it take to be a cop and tree hill these days, a pencil? he just emasculates this poor man in such an intense way and then buttons the scene with charge me or release me

and then we're done and then shows up at Haley's house and goes I would never hurt my family Dan is all over the place but it is calculated he is he is manic and in this episode specifically he dialed his bitchiness up to a 12 because he is just burning people front, right, and center. I mean, he rips on Julian. Granted, though, they have a really nice moment

in the car, which I loved. I agree. That was a wonderful scene between Julian and Dan after they go to visit the man on life support and the wife who clearly is hammered or not all there. But he says to Mouth, poor Mouth.

Let's just always. But first of all, Mouth walks into the trailer. And his first line is, Mouth, is that you in there? Yeah. Rude. And then as he's leaving, God bless him. All he's trying to do is help out and be a team player and get Nathan home.

And all he's getting is roasted because he's on the way out he goes, hey, is there anything else I can do to help out? And Dan goes, yeah, go easy on the carbs. I hated that. I hated that. Why? It's so stupid. It's so mean. It's such low-hanging fruit.

I will say this, though, to Clay's credit, he is like the, the. One of the few people who didn't even acknowledge it. Yes, that's true. You may be losing your mind, but you are a decent man. Speaking of Clay, why wasn't Clay also kidnapped? Don't you guys run the agency together? Because he didn't go to Europe. Nathan went in his place.

If they were thorough, they should have kidnapped us both. Yeah. Then what if there's a secretary, they got to kidnap her too. You know what I mean? Then it just gets a party. Yeah, double murders, a little more complicated to write off than a, one guy in a warehouse, I guess. Yeah.

Speaking of mouth, I would be remiss if I didn't draw attention to yet again, what is this, the fourth episode in a row where they are trying to equate storylines that are in no universe near each other. Mouth at, Jerry has said, listen, you can't work on this outwardly. But if you want to work on it after hours, I'm not going to say anything. Yeah, you do you. So it's nighttime, clearly. and Mouth is at his computer working feverishly to try to find some clues, right?

First of all, it's hilarious because Jerry walks in with an entire large pizza and goes, thought you might be hungry. Okay? Yeah, well, incongruous. Maybe there's only a couple slices left. I'm willing to overlook that. But then there's a close-up shot of Mouth investigating on his computer. And he goes from looking into his friend's disappearance who may be.

be dead. Everyone's worried. And then he looks over to the large pizza as if these are the two challenges I am facing right now. I love the stuff you notice, Rob. It's that's so good. That's very well said. Like we can't try to equate these things. Nope. Nope. It's so silly. One of your best friends has been kidnapped and might be dead. But equally stressful is the large pizza sitting next to you. Should I eat those carbs it's so stupid it's so stupid and the weird thing is it that whole situation starts I think really well for Jerry and Mouth you see their history he he's like I'm so sorry you know because Mouth got that news on the air and had to read it he wasn't prepared Jerry feels terrible and then we go back to is it or isn't it a dig about his weight like

it just feels like nobody's thinking about how real people with real relationships talk to each other. That's the thing. Nobody's thinking about how real, like how things would happen in real life. Even the slight adjustments of like what we were talking about with the scene where he was threatening to shoot Nathan or with the pizza scene. Like, okay, mouths at the computer and all of a sudden he just gets up, grabs the pizza, shoves it in a garbage and then sits backs down. Then you know, like, okay, the smell of it's been in his face. He doesn't want to think about it. He's getting it out of the way. he's focused on his friend.

Yes. This is like these tiny little adjustments that would have just... Little things. They made it easy. And what's weird to me is, is there are great scenes in this episode that do work.

Like, Millie not knowing what to do for her friends in this situation. So just being with Brooke and being like, okay, we had to do this terrible story on the news. I'm so sorry. I have an idea for how we can fix it. I can work on it.

Guess what I tweeted it? So did I? Like, there in cahoots in a really sweet way. I mentioned this earlier. I love the misdirect for you and I thinking you're mad at me and then being like, oh my God. And then saying to Millie, I can't tell her about the cafe. This is so stupid, but also it's really bad. And I have to fix it because I can't fix the other thing. Like some of the things they give to some of us felt so human even. And it's a tiny seen. So it doesn't, I'm not saying we have to make a meal of things, but even Quinn's logic

with you about, listen, I understand why you don't trust him, but he's a good person to have in your corner in a crisis. He knows people. And for her, that's a plus. And for you, that's a minus. Certain things are really tracking. Yeah. And then there's this stuff that just doesn't. And I think in a way, what doesn't track is almost more irritating to us because we're like, no, no, you did that really well. And you did this other thing pretty well. And this scene was great. So why, like, it almost feels like they got halfway through a polish and then didn't finish it. It's like whack-a-mole. Like, I just don't understand what's happening. Rob, how are you feeling about the clay stuff? I, okay, well, first off, before we even go there, I want to say, I've realized that

I think Quinn was criminally underdeveloped. Having seen how good Chantel is as this character and now three seasons in seeing how she for the most part solely exists to be there for other people she's helping Clay with his mess she's helping haley like she's just there to like support and react and and i just found myself this episode going oh we we we dropped the ball not giving her her own storyline that she's the center of and other people orbit around because to that it's sort of like becoming a purse you know like the love interest on a show where it's like you're you're around but you don't really have your own identity and I just this episode realized I really wish Quinn had more of her own identity

because she's so damn good in the role and I just I want I would love to see more is all yeah the queen of it is getting better for me largely just because of Logan yeah he Pierce is so freaking cute and i had so much fun shooting with him he was hilarious so we we buddyed up and then it became quickly apparent that he listened to absolutely no one but me so our our our on set producers would tell the director um just go through buckley like and so he would if you would start to get a little wild and you know the director would come over and be like hey maybe could you ask him to do you know give a little something and it was so cute he was sort of like my little, my little sidekick, my little minion was like, oh, this is so great. And what's cool

about this episode is when I found out they were going to have actual comics in a scene, I said, hey, is it, can I pick the comics? And I said, yeah. So the comic you see was actually illustrated by a buddy of mine, Jim Lee, who's an absolutely icon in the comic world. He's now, I think, like, creative chief officer of, like, a DC or something. He's huge now. But it was so cool. I got to be like, hey, buddy, I'm going to Easter egg your work. It's like, it's his most famous, like, uncanny X-Men.

So it was a very cool thing when I watched a scene going like, oh, yeah, this was great. And then in real life, Chantelle and I took Pierce to his first comic shop ever and bought him his first comics. And it was such, so that was a really fun time. Yeah. And I just find the storyline infinitely more interesting than me wandering off and screaming at Quinn. I was a little confused by the timeline of, so I was mentally present when I decided I was going to leave. I packed my bags.

I said goodbye to Logan, but then did I immediately enter the fugue state on the walkout? Okay. It seems like with the suitcase, when the suitcase dropped. I don't know. So what do you think? As a viewer, what it felt like to me was you weren't yourself in the scene with Logan at the door. And then when we watch you talking to the doctor about it and Quinn is with you. And you don't remember being outside. You obviously, you're completely gone when she finds you. And I loved getting to see that for you guys because we got to see inside the moment for you and we got to see her realize that you really are gone that this that a fugue state

really means nobody's home and it was a short moment but I thought really impactful and and what it gave me was oh the stress of knowing about Nathan made him say I got a pack I got to go I got to go help and it and it was already causing that dissociative episode to start and Logan catches you at the beginning of it and you can't really communicate with him. And then by the time you're in the street, you're like gone. I felt like I was watching you fade out rather than like it just happens in an instant. And I really liked that. So if that wasn't a conscious choice, I think you communicated something really beautifully

in the sort of transitions between those scenes, for sure. I like that explanation. Let's go with that because I was just confused. Because if Clay is, has the wherewithal to realize, no, I need to go look for my friend and there's urgency, why, why doesn't he call Quinn or a taxi? Yeah. The fact that he's like, I'm going to leave on foot and just walk is odd to me. But I like what you're saying, though, because if that is the case, then common sense is not prevailing. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. It feels like if you think about what it is to you. panic to be in your room and panicked and to be packing, I think by the time you get those bags shut, you're already halfway out of your brain. I know where the Logan thing is heading, but I don't remember how long it takes us to get there, so I'm... I know, me too.

I don't remember either. I'm eager. How about the Chris Keller, Chase, and Tara of it all? He had one of the best lines, Chris Keller, that is. where when he shows up after Chase and Tara have had, of course, another marathon lovemaking session, we know because they say, you should burn the sheets. No, you should bronze the sheets. Yeah.

He shows up. She's in the shower. And, of course, Chase wants to get rid of him. And Chris Keller says, bail on her or take me with you, I make dudes look so much better. I love that self-awareness from Chris Keller. Yeah. It's great. Meanwhile, in that scene, he sits on Chase's bed with his boots on.

His boots on the sheets of the bed. He deserves to be cheated on. But also, to sit in the sheets, you know your friend just had sex on me. I didn't even think of that. Come on. The whole thing, he just doesn't care. It also really makes me laugh because the awkwardness of Chase being, like, oh my God, what do I do?

And the nervousness as an audience member because I found myself not wanting him to get caught, but also really wanting him to get caught. Yeah. And I was like, if you get caught, you're not going to be able to apologize for being such an ass, man. Like, what are you doing?

And it, the whole thing was just so good. And it was funny to me that the way that Chase figures out how to save himself is to try to be like Chris Keller. She doesn't know me. She's lucky. let her stay. Let's bail. She'll figure out how to get out of here. Yeah, yeah.

He's just throwing the duchiest things a man could say about a woman in rapid succession trying to get this man out of his bed. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to. become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation battles. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This brings up an interesting topic here.

Bedsheets. okay would you go into your friend's bed totally yeah in what context i'm just i'm just wondering where the line is right like at what point because if you don't know how often someone washes their sheets like is there and where does the ick factor come in in terms of going into someone's bed i mean i don't know like it wouldn't bother me i'm like you know we're hanging out watching a movie and we just start and we crash like i don't it doesn't happen a lot but i could be i could see myself at a girlfriend's house and having that happen. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. No, it doesn't really throw me. I wouldn't get into an acquaintances bed. No. That's a hard line. But any of my closest friends,

and I mean, also, we're all old enough. I think we know each other's cleanliness habits. Like, all of my friends are as OCD as me. So I'm not worried about it. But, you know, there's also weird things like, okay, let's say we all were out on a tour. Like we did a few years ago with the show, right? Yeah. Like, if we were all in the same hotel, and Rob, we all came to your room to watch a movie, I wouldn't get into your hotel bed, but I would sit on your hotel bed. For sure. You know? Yeah. Completely. But it's like, that's also an interesting thing is to realize yeah, getting into someone's bed, like under their covers, that's got to be one of your best, best, best friends. You know what it is for, because I agree with you. Let's say the line as a

queens then because for me it's like you know sometimes it's just like I I don't want to if someone's gross I almost just don't want to know about it and I feel like it's much easier for dudes to be like I wash my bed sheets once a month what's the big deal I would rather just not know so this is what I'm saying like I think I would just not do the bed because I don't want to get close to your sheets and go oh yeah like if there's crumbs in your bed it's going to be hard for me to unsee that yes yes because I'm I'm like who I like very clean, tidy ship, and I just wouldn't want to find out that my friend is some closet case grossy. No.

Yeah. No. Thanks for taking that detail with me. Keep the boundaries. Yeah, no problem. You know what I thought you were going to say when you asked that question? I thought you were going to be like, are you a top sheet or a comforter only person? That's where I thought you were.

Oh. Let's go there too. What are you? In my current sleeping situation, I am a comforter only. Whoa. I'm totally top sheet. I need a top sheet. So you're top sheet and comforter.

Yes. Me too. I think that's normal, by the way. I'm just, I'm going through a season, guys. I'm embracing it. It's different. Give it a shot. Also, it's summer.

You could have a great, like, linen blend, you know, super soft comforter and just want to feel that on your skin. I don't know. That was the impetus was I was just getting a bit too hot at nighttime. And it was waking me up and I thought maybe we streamline the operation. Okay. Not to be my mind. grandmother, but have you ever switched to a summer weight comforter in the summer? No.

Game changer. Game changer. And you're in the Pacific Northwest, so you really get some climate shifts and seasons. A summer wait comforter will change your life. It's like that to me is luxury. Like a light quilt. Oh, a waffled quilt perhaps? A little waffle, yeah.

I bet you people at home are like, how the fuck did we go from kidnapping? to quotes. Like, what is wrong with you guys? And speaking of jarring segways, how about the resolution to the fight between Chris and Chase? Wait, before we go there. Hold on. Hold on. Because we have to talk about the resolution, sorry, the revelation when Brooke and Chris are in the cafe. It's so good. And I forgot. You guys, I didn't know it was me. I was surprised by my own scene. Sophia, you were so great. And Tyler, Tyler is like, he's, you know, I was just talking before we started about how I'm helping out with the school play. And it's amazing how some of the kids walk in and they don't have any experience.

Like there was one kid that walked in and he was a football player and just was like, I don't know. They told me there were auditions and somebody told me I should come try out. So he starts reading and we're all just like, oh my God, oh my God, you're amazing. Wait, what? This is so surprising. And I feel like the fact that Tyler doesn't have a ton of acting experience at this point. And he's, other than our show and a couple movies, but he's not, he still considers himself to be primarily a musician, that he could come in and have the ability to walk through every

single one of the emotional experiences he had in the span of those eight seconds. And we felt it all and it was realistic and not over the top. And it just made me love Tyler even more. It was such a fun scene. And it was funny because, I didn't see it coming when he walks up and I decide to give him his lunch for free I know exactly what's happening

and you know you can kind of I remember making the choice like I have to choke this down you know like a really grassy smoothie just like this is disgusting but like I gotta do it because Brooke can't stand Chris Keller

so that I was like God I remember this Oh the look you give him in the cafe over your shoulder I laughed at myself when Millie and I are talking and I go, that, Tara, and just raise my voice so they both can hear me. And then you realize I literally don't know. You don't know. Like, I don't know. I'm throwing that at Stephen and Tyler thinks I'm throwing that at him.

And then he gets up to the thing. And the humor of Brooke and Chris's high school interaction is playing. So the oopsie of her revealing a thing that she didn't know was a secret, I just went, oh, God, oh, God, oh, God. It was me. It was me. And it's the introduction of Chris's first storyline of his own. Yes.

All the times that he's been on the show, he's serving other, he's interfering, really, with other people's storylines. Yeah, he's like a little chaos goblin. Yes. This is the first time. It was like that moment right there turned. Chris Keller from a side character into a main character. He's got his own storyline right now that he has to deal with. That's great. And he crushed it. Cushed it. And then he takes him outside

to kick him. Side kicking him in the, I don't even know, the upper thigh. No, he kicks him in like it's like this. It's like kicking him in this part of the shoulder with the leg. He like comes around. It's like he's trying to do a roundhouse, but his jeans are too tight. And he's, he just gets him with his steel toe in like the meaty part of the upper thigh and it is he doesn't want to hurt his hands his guitar playing he doesn't want to hurt his guitar pain I would have punched you but I didn't want to hurt my guitar hands but consider yourself punched punched and chase says I deserve whatever whatever that was yes it's so funny to watch them and and to have the confrontation be in front of every one.

and I forgot that when Tara gets called out, I pop up like a little gopher over her shoulder because finally there's some vindication for us and you're not there to see it, but I'm going to get her. And then they go outside and you think they're going to have this knock down dragout and they both just feel terrible. And I love that the immediate resolution is, well, we're going to stay friends and she's out. It's great. Yeah. It also felt like very, quintessential guise of just how fast they can move on and then be like, oh, look, a different shiny thing. Let's go investigate together. And they're at a strip club and the beef has been squashed. Yeah. And Chase is paying. I bumped on this on their, it is so very stereotypical machismo.

It feels like, okay, when the women on our show have found out that they're interested in the same guy, let alone or slept the same guy, their lives are destroyed. Their friendship is marred for it takes months or sometimes seasons to get over. And then we've got this where these guys clearly just see her as an object that's totally replaceable. I mean. And then to feel better about themselves, they go find a place where they can objectify more women.

Yeah. The whole thing was just like, okay, so men are worth destroying your life over and women are just totally replaceable and objects. Yeah. Men are the center of your universe and women are essentially like. go bricks. Cool. Yes.

And the one thing I would say in defense of this is that I don't, this is the way I took it. This wasn't a generalization of how men view women. This was a mea colpa from Chase to Chris Keller.

And that is how Chris Keller, that is his attention span and what works. So to me, it was just emblematic of how what Chris wanted and what Chris needed. And Chase was like,

great. I will fund it. Let's, go because I owe you. Because you know what, Nathan and Clay would never do that. No. Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. I do think that matters. I agree with you also, Joy. I think because we have the context of our whole show and, you know, the people who ran it. They were like, really. But what I, what I will say is because Stephen and Tyler are both so charming. They de-ick the thing in a way that I think a lot of other actors wouldn't have been able to. And they

managed to keep it light somehow. But it's really interesting that you say that. I won't go into like too much detail because I would blow up someone's spot. But many years ago. Say names. No, I wouldn't. But it's like it's a story, you know, we tell not for the public, but one of my best friends did sleep with a guy I was dating many years ago. And when we figured out the sort of central nature of his communication, shall I say, with her. We both were like, oh, that guy. And we were solid. It never affected our friendship. And I think the root of it is the honesty. Like, how do you communicate? When you discover something, how quickly do you communicate it? Oh, it's totally possible. It's just what we're so used to seeing on our show in particular that I was like, oh, here we go again.

Well, and what I will say is the reason I'm sharing it is what we never saw on our show was this scenario between any of the girls who were like, oh my God, I know this thing now and I need to tell you. Yeah. And then the girls could be okay. The writers really leaned into, women will betray each other to win a man. And that makes it feel icky. You know, like the whole Peyton Brooke and Lucas Love Triangle was such a mess because they lied about it for so. Yeah. You know?

And I think that's part of maybe why we bump on it is we're like, oh. Well, it was all throughout the show. Nanny Carey was obsessed with Nathan. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We had the obsession of Emmanuel Vosges. Yes, with Jake. Yeah, with Jake. And there was just a Renee with Nathan.

It was a continual pattern of women being obsessed over. over men and destroying their lives. It's almost like there was a man in charge of our show who wanted women to be obsessed with him. It's almost like that. Almost. Almost like that. Also, this kind of goes back to what I was saying.

They had two central characters that they got to blank slate starting in season seven. That's right. Yeah. And what ended up happening, Clay got tons of storyline. And Quinn's storyline was largely just being in Clay's orbit and reacting and supporting. Well, and by the way, Clay's storyline included a woman who was so obsessed with him,

she tried to murder his girlfriend. Yeah. And another woman who's so obsessed with him that in spite of the fact that it's super unhealthy for her to be in this relationship, but she's still, like, I mean, you know, we love Quinn. I love Quinn and Clay, but, you know, we've talked about these moments that we've seen where you're just like, oh, like, give him a day. Does he have to have? Do you guys think, oh, sorry.

I was just going to say it's to Chantelle's credit, really. Just going back a little bit to what you were saying before, Rob, that she still manages to be so great and so convincing in this part that's largely underwritten. And you can really tell particularly because after she left our show, she has gone on to work nonstop in spectacular roles on spectacular shows because her talent is undeniable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and one of the things that's interesting to me about it is, I wonder why it was something that felt like, how do I want to phrase this? I wonder why it was something that happened with her character so specifically, sort of toward the end of eight and through nine. And we've talked about it with yours too, that there have been seasons where Haley is basically helping everyone else keep it together. And I don't know if, because there was almost. a sort of like purity component in like the James family that you guys both wound up having to play that role at some point or another in the show. You know, I'm curious about that if they

were tracking that. I'm curious also if, because we did get a lot of feedback, right, that like the characters on our show all had the most insane success. Oh, yeah. Who's a rock star, a record label owner, a fashion designer, an NBA player, all from the same, a bestselling author. Like, it's so crazy. And I wonder if the writers kind of felt like they shot themselves in the foot, making Quinn a photographer, like a big deal magazine photographer. And then it was like, you've done it again. Yeah. And how does she do that job in this small town? And then they kind of boxed her in in a way. I wonder if it's a little of that. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, because also, if to be a successful photographer, that would be her on location at different places.

All the time. So it would be a storyline that would be constantly taking her from a production side. That would be more because every time it's a new location. And also, it wouldn't be interwoven with the characters as much because she wouldn't, she wouldn't be around. And it's a hard, it's a hard profession for viewers around the world to relate to. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I don't know. I wonder if that, I wonder if that's kind of why she got a little. boxed in and then because you guys established such good on-screen chemistry it was like oh watching the way she feels about what's happening to clay is so interesting that they weren't paying attention to the fact that they weren't giving her anything else to do but worry about clay going back to what you're just saying though I mean are there many relatable character professions on the show well no but that that's it oh okay I was I thought you're saying that there were quite a few

relatable and she was one of the ones that wasn't saying they kind of all had extraordinary job Yeah. I mean, at least at this point, we're running a cafe. Like, that's pretty normal. Now familiar hosting a morning show. Tuan is off in Hollywood, giving people lessons on stunt or sports training. Yeah, everybody's got some extraordinary job. Yeah. Strange. Two quick, small things I liked. I loved the opening with Mouth and Milly. And I think Lee's first line is something to be effective. like now that now that we've heard from a man who collects records in his parents' basement

let's see what else is going on in local news I'm like that's a perfect line and then I also love the exchange when Dan first gets to Julian's studio and he's like I'll pay $3,000 a month and Julian laughs he's like I have zero customers

and he's like I'll pay you $2,000 a month and then Julian says something like I want to hang out something and then goes And he asks him what do you need all that for? Yes. Yeah, and he goes, I'll pay you $3,000 a month to not ask me those questions. It was so great. And I liked their scene in the car. I really liked their scene in the car.

Yes. There was kind of nobody else that could have said those things to Julian. And it's, again, that thing in the seesaw with Dan where we love, we hate, we love, we hate. It's like sometimes he's just the perfect mentor, even though he's also the worst example of a human. And it's very confusing. But I enjoy the moments. And I think I liked the whole episode for Julian in particular after our conversation last week when we were talking about, you know, why would you risk yourself when you have a family at home? And then also, what is it like to be in such emotional turmoil and trauma that you're essentially, you know, emotionally cutting or getting physically punched in the face? and we did the back and forth, the three of us,

and then I loved that that was Brooke and Julian's argument at the top of the episode. Yeah, that was great. You know, like, you need to come back. I need a co-parent. Get your shit together, and he's like, all I'm doing is thinking about my family. And you see, you see that they're both suffering

and they both have the absolute right to feel the way that they're feeling. And I was like, God, we really were tapped into something trying to figure it out last week. And it felt kind of cool to see that. And last week's conversation really just made me feel for both characters in this position. Yeah. It's cool.

Oh, boy. I don't know what's going to happen next. We've got Nathan's bought himself a little bit more time. We've never given a razzie on this show. We always do our honorable mention. Go on. I really. have to say that

the gangster saying I learned English from Shakespeare. It gets my Raz. Sorry writers. I'm on board with that. I was like, okay, enough. Enough. Yeah. We don't need a backstory. We don't need a Shakespearean shooter.

We're good. No. They did the most when it would have been so much more impactful if they had done the least. Yes. Yeah. That part. Well done. Honorable mention to that observation, Robert Buckley. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something. we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges,

we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world. Influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jenna asks, which character who left the show but didn't die do you wish would have come back in the final season and how would you have liked them worked into the storyline? Greenberg. This is a tough one for me to answer. because I don't really know the show. Oh, my goodness. The only one I know is Q because I love Robbie as a human being.

And I do remember watching his arc on the show. But he died. So I guess I don't really have an answer for this one. God, Greenberg is a great answer, Joy. I was going to say, well, obviously, it would have been really special to have Peyton and Lucas come back. It's weird. It's so weird.

To wrap up a series without them. Yeah. And Barbara. Did Moira come back? I can't remember. I don't remember. I don't think so. But wait, wait, wait.

Isn't there, there is a, there is a scene or a series of scenes in this episode, right, between Chad and Chantel? I mean, not this episode. Sorry, this season. Doesn't he come back? He does, because he used my trailer. There was a time period where I was, I had left for something, and he came back for a couple days of shooting, and he used my trailer.

And when I came back, there was Christmas lights hung up in the trailer. and a note that was like, thought you might like these. I was like, who the hell did this? And it was Chad. Oh, my God, that is so funny. How bizarre. I do not remember this. But what makes me sad about it is I wish they had come back in a better way.

And, you know, given the fact that he who shan't be named, who was in charge of our show, was such a ding-dong to women. Like, it also makes me sad that we didn't get them back together. Yeah. I know it's true. You have to, Joy, you have to read what our producer just said. Come on, it's so good. We're all laughing because of something in the chat. So Joy, why don't you please illuminate the audience?

Okay, producer says chat does come back for one episode. And then the next text message is, it's scenes with you, Joy. I love the one tree homenesia we all have. It's so fun. It's really great. Sorry, I don't remember. All right, gang. Oh, let's spin a wheel.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, boy. So Dan's going to save the day. Or he's going to pretend to save the day. I pretend to save the day. I'm so curious. I really wish I remembered what we discover. This also makes me glad that Dan dies because I'm at the point now where, oh.

What the shit, Joy, are you kidding me? Eventually he died. I mean, you know, like. I know that? Well, there's this whole flat, fast forward, like, into the future that's later on in the show. He's, and it's late. Don't worry about it. It's not, no.

It's not like what you think. No, worrying is happening. The train's left the station. No, it's not what you think. How could it not be what I think? Because it's not, I promise you, it's not what you think. Because if you think something obvious, you should know by the insanity of season nine that it won't be that. Fine.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to give you a heart attack. Well. It's happened. My tummy is upset. We were starting to spin a wheel and the wheel never stopped spinning. Have we given up on the wheel? Do we have one?

I think we just blew up the wheel. I can just make, oh, there we go. Oh, most likely to steal a friend's baby name. Oh my God, Sicilian dead to me. You're right. Tara. Tara. Nailed it.

Great one. Yes. Sicilian dead to me. Sicilian dead to me. I would never. forgive. That's dark. Susicine dead to me. Okay, friends.

That should be the title of this episode, Sicilian Dead to Me. By the way, I saw that Never Wear Flip Flops to a Showdown was the previous episode's title. So thank you, producers. I think this one should be dead. Was it Sicilian Dead to Me? Cecilian Dead to Me. Love that. Yeah.

It's like an extra, like, you know, big Italian family thing. Like, you're dead to me means something. But when somebody says, you are Sicilian Dead to Me. to me. It's like, yeah. Oh, no, this shit's real. This is, yeah, yeah. This is going to pass down to your generations. When a sorority goes, I'm mad at you versus I'm literally mad at you. It's like, whoa, she added the literally, okay. We're really in it now. Next episode, season nine, episode seven, last known surroundings. We'll see you next week. See you. Bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at

Drama Queen's O-T-Harendh. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.