Drama Queens - Proms & Villains • EP416 (part one) with Matt Barr

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Psycho Derek has returned once again. Luckily this time, it’s merely in the form of the man who portrayed him, Matt Barr! Thankfully he’s not like Derek at all!  In a silver lining, Hilarie explains how fans have come forward to share how these episodes helped them in real life.  All that plus, a secret set reveal you didn’t know about and… is there a future collaboration for Matt and Sophia?!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Welcome back to part two of this prom party.

We're still dressed up. We're still dressed up. Listen, we've kept our crowns on. We're really leaning in. Episode 416, you call it madness, but I call it love, the original air date, May 2nd, 2007. It will be an unforgettable prom at Tree Hill High when Lucas discovers who was in the hallway when Keith was killed. Meanwhile, Peyton's decision to skip the prom. leads to dire consequences.

Nathan and Haley vow to be romantic teenagers, while Dan tries to win Karen's affections, and the witness to his murder closes in. This episode was directed by our favorite Tom Wright, and we have another one of our favorites here for part two. Matt Barr, aka Psychoderic, who if you were with us on tour, you learned, is the sweetest man off screen to compliment a terror on screen.

We call him sweet Matt. Hi, honey. Hi, guys. Thanks for having me back. I scare everyone off, I guess. We love you. We love having you here. Right. Yeah. You are the nightmare fuel for every teenage girl in America that watch this shit, Matt. Like, honestly. Yeah, I think I was like in China once and someone said that to me. And I thought, wow, that really made it across the ocean, didn't it? Yeah. Wow. Because you're such, you're a handsome dude and you're sweet. And there is nothing about you that screams red flag. So then when, when this all unfolds and you are horrendous in this basement?

Yeah. I mean, you're so unhinged. I just rewatched it. It's actually creepier than I even remember it. You know, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, I don't remember any kind of trauma in my childhood, but man, it's, it, I did go dark, didn't I? You in this episode are the reason that, like, when I'm home alone at night, I don't want to look out the windows.

Like, I'm so scared that a face like Psycho Derek's face is going to be on. on the other side of the glass. And every, we were sitting here watching the episode and we were just every other second, we were like, oh, God, oh, no, no, oh, ah, just yelling at the screen. How does a person who is as kind as you are? I mean, listen, you're an actor. Our job is to embody people, good, bad, ugly, everything in between. Right.

How did you figure out how to make this person, a person that you could inhabit? And was it uncomfortable to do on set? Like, what's your world? Because it was really hard for us to watch. I think, you know, I mean, you guys know this as actors, like, I think sometimes the further the departure, sometimes the easier it is to kind of take that leap. You know, playing yourself is kind of scary. and, you know, it's just to be organic on camera.

So I think sometimes those kind of radical choices are easier just to, like I said, just to like, you know, base jump off the cliff. And so if you go for it, but I, I, um. So many actors overdo it. Like there's, there's, you know what I mean? Like you, you manage to make it so realistic and believable, which is what makes it so scary. Well, also, it feels like a real psychotic break, Matt.

Like it, it doesn't. feel like mustache twirling. It feels like this is a boy who suffered some pretty horrific abuse and is now inflicting it on someone else. And you made it real in a way that I think elevates the fear factor. Were there movies? Because, you know, I remember them telling us. They're like, this is your shot, kids.

You're doing a horror film this week. Were there movies that you watched where you're like, this is a bad guy that I can, you know, use as a model for what I'm going to turn Ian into. Right. Yeah. And I'm trying to remember what it was during that time, but I remember thinking all that great villains sort of whatever they're doing, they think there's a nobility to it, you know? And so, you know, and like I said, whether it's pain, wherever that motivation comes from, maybe it's trauma or pain, you know, like, I thought if we grounded Derek and it's like, he really needed this. And, you know, he was this, this obsession for Peyton was grounded in some

kind of for him real thing. And so the audience, like you said, it becomes real. It's not the mustache twirling villain. It's like a really, it's a very sick young man. And I'm not that to sympathize with him, but I think that the more you ground, that that's almost an interesting part for a minute if you're thinking like, man, I always feel bad for how,

how you have to. As an actor, how can you play your character the most effectively and that's to care the most about your character. You have to care, that you have to defend your character to the death, like, care the most about them more than anybody else. And even if your character is a intense psychopath, you have to know why. You have to believe that really deep down there's a reason and they deserve it and there's something good and, you know, because that's real. That's what happens to humans. You know, not characters.

That's what happens to us. Right. I really like the, I like the fact that you're willing, you know, you're right. it's an intense example, but when you really compare someone like a Derek to some of the worst historical villains, and then you as an actor say, even if this character I've been asked to play is this evil, how do I solely as the person who has to inhabit him, how do I humanize him? How do I give him a motivation? And that's what I think is really jarring about watching it. you know, to everyone else's point, it doesn't feel like mustache twirling.

It doesn't feel like a caricature. You managed to ground something real in him. And it's interesting that you use the word need. Like, he needs this. Right. You gave it a reality, which I think is why it feels so scary. It's almost easier to dismiss a boogeyman. It's a lot harder to dismiss, you know, you think about all these crazy stories.

as we watch on Dateline, like it's harder to dismiss the hockey coach who you find out has been like murdering kids. You're like, oh, but that's a real thing. Like the scary person who you, who feels larger than life, it's easier for your mind to go, well, that's not really going to happen. Right. And you brought something into this character that made it feel so real that I think it's why it's haunted all of us for so long. So as an actor, well done. Yes. Do you have interactions with people that you feel that like are, are that sort of like the real life villain and are there, do you know what I mean? Like what are the, what are the things that you draw out that you're like, oh yeah, this is a real. No, I mean, I've had to talk to killers on the phone and people you know have done horrible things and you just have to talk to them on the phone because that's your job. And sometimes you talk to them in real life. It's it really freaks me out. Have you discovered anything in terms of like this They're so normal.

They're so normal. Yeah, that's what I mean, right? Like it seems totally normal. Like the hockey coach, like you're saying, so yeah. They're so normal. And the thing that I think that was really effective about your performance, Matt, that I probably didn't notice in the moment, but I'm noticing now as a viewer with hindsight, the way Derek centers Peyton and his concern for her, the speech that he gives to Peyton. in the basement where he's like, you were going to sleep with Lucas tonight, honey, and I just could not let you make that mistake.

Like, he has been fucking with you, and I can't let you do that. In his brain, this is all an act of love. I am going to save you from making a decision that's going to hurt you. And that was the part for me as a viewer where I was like, ugh, gross. Like, yeah. Is it about, I think he was watching you. Brooke fight in the yard too, right? He's like, you know, your best friend betrayed you, which was, which was valid, you know.

Yeah. And that's it, right? That's where you see the break is a person who would say, I can't believe this person did that to you. We hate her. You know, you even see it with Rachel. I love Shelly. I've always hated Shelly.

But she turns with mouth, you know, when he tells her in the last episode that they're not going to prom together. It is a very normal turn. that in the mind of someone who's having an episode of mental illness or who's had a psychotic break goes from you don't like Brooke, I don't like Brooke to Brooke broke your heart, let's gutter like a fish. And you're like, oh dear. We're no longer on a plane of reality. And it's it's inspiring to Hillary's point, watching it now in hindsight, because you were able to toggle between normal human. an emotion and psychotic response in a way that, as you said, yes, he's the villain. Yes, we're all terrified of him. And weirdly now, maybe it's just because we all, you know, produce direct, like, I look at you as an actor and I'm like, you made me sympathize with him, kind of though. I want him to go to jail forever. But this poor baby, what happened to him?

What happened to him to make him this way? Yeah. It's gnarly. So I want to hear from you, because we're going to gush about you for, you know, another 30 minutes after you leave. I love doing this podcast. Yeah, this is just the best. This is great. This is a MAPR hour. Yeah.

Listen, anytime you need to be going to tell you. I mean, we thought they had killed you. And so for all of you at home, the fact that they brought Derek back or Ian or whatever the fuck your character's name is. Right, right. The fact that they brought you back is a testament to how lovely you. were because nobody else would have been brought back, but they bent over backwards to figure out a way to keep you for longer. Did you know about that during your first chunk of time on the show? I didn't. I don't think that was planned. I don't know if I don't think Mark or I'm not sure

the writers. As far as I know, maybe y'all know you definitely knew more than I did probably, but I don't remember that. I remember that kind of being a one-off thing, those first four episodes and then forget when that call came, but I remember Harry and they were going to kind of pull Brooke and Peyton apart and that this sort of served a purpose to you know um you know unite you guys again in a very exciting way um but i'm glad and i thought um like you said it like you said there there's a way they grounded if if you when you first heard this pitch for the season it would sound kind of ridiculous i think you know because tree hill is a very real place and yeah some things are sensationalized because it's a television show but it's a very grounded show and then

It probably sounded, it still does sound ridiculous, but I think we made it, we made it a real kind of, I don't know, a real, a real drama and a, you know, and a real town. You made it a real experience. Yeah. You know, it's not just a story that people were watching. We all felt the experience of terror as a unit. Have you done like a horror film before? How had you practiced this? You know, it's funny, I haven't.

Yeah, I don't, I wonder where that. Still. Like I said, I think there's a way where you just like, you know, it's easier to take a leap. It's sort of just a far departure from yourself. Because like, like, you know, you guys know me. I really, you know, I'm, I mean, I remember when my little brother was born as a kid, I hated him because I had to share a bunk bed. So I think I was channeling that, like, bunk bed.

Like, like, Anthony Hopkins playing lecker's like it was all about the little brother and the bunk bed thing. Interesting. Yeah, it is, it is funny, isn't it? It's like once you find a way in, it's almost like, Yeah. Everyone always talks about a bottleneck, like in traffic, how everything squeezes and then it's a mess. But finding a way into a character is kind of like the reverse. It's like you have to go in the skinny end of the funnel. And once you find the opening, it just opens on the other end.

Yes. And that's so interesting. Thank you. It's. That's true, Sophia, yeah. But to hear you say the thing about, oh, yeah, I remember Anthony Hopkins, Hannibal Lecter, he had the thing with the brother and you go, done. And that's the opening. You're right. And then you get to make up everything on the other side of it once you find a little nugget of reality. Right. It's also not lost on me, if I may, because I'm sure people at home are like, we know you love Matt, but this is weird that you guys are gushing about Derek. Like, I think it has helped us process the intensity of this episode and, you know, the violence.

And the episode is essentially every nightmare, anyone who ever grew up watching, like, you know, Law and Order SVU or or Dateline or any of these things has ever had. Or it just was a kid in the 80s. Oh, yeah. You know, it's such a fear and I think we I think we cling to the positive that we

gleaned from it, which is our friendship with you because if we really look at what was happening to this teenage girl and then, you know, by association her friend, it's so dark and it's so scary and it's hard to know what to say about that. So

I guess that's a really roundabout way of saying thank you for being you and not some actual creep who came to play this part because if you had been a creepy dude we would have been broken forever forever well like we're all the same boat like I'm not an advocate for violence and I don't even I don't even love watching a lot of movies and things that are like hardcore that way it kind of like hurts my soul a bit you know even even though it's fiction right but I if you were to frame our our storyline in this show about kind of the resilience that you guys had I mean I always thought there was sort of a positive message around you know how your characters grew and changed because that's

what that's what stories are about you know with this kind of villain role that I played I don't know I've had a surprising I've had a surprising number of young women come up and let me know that they had been sexually assaulted and that the aftermath of this storyline and the girls coming together to process it was incredibly helpful for them. And that was really kind of confusing for me because we didn't have social media when this episode came out.

There was no instant feedback. So to hear that feedback years later, it's not that I ever felt shame about this storyline, but it's because it is sexual assault and it's treated in a way that's very, like horror movie of the week, kind of. I felt nervous about it. But the feedback I've gotten is that it was

helpful. And I think being able to articulate feelings for the fan base and give them words and give them a reference and like something to point to is an important part of our job. And so you helped you by being such a bad guy, helped some women process what the aftermath can be, you know, how you can keep going. You know what you just made me realize, too, Hill, is that so much of the trauma that Peyton experiences hasn't been witnessed before. And because, like, she's gone through so much alone and has hidden. And it's actually really interesting that this whole Derek storyline, you know, with you coming in, Matt, and then Ernest being real Derek,

and being a witness for Peyton, and then on prom night, you know, Brooke winding up in the basement and then being able to talk about it, it almost strikes me that it's the Derek story. storyline that illuminates for viewers that you can only process trauma by opening it up, by getting help, by speaking to someone. Whether it's a professional or a friend, you know, obviously we talk a lot on this podcast about how we're proponents of mental health care and therapy, but I had never thought about it that way until you said that, that we get to really have an experience with Peyton

where she is processing a trauma instead of doing what so many shows do, case of the week, it's all over. We wrap it up with a bow and then we never talk about it again. And that's really profound. I was, I was thought that we made it too. I always thought that was part

of the profound message of it. And you know, that little quote, like the strength of the wolf is the pack, the strength of the pack is the wolf. And how you said, we don't do this in life. It's like we need each other and we're better together, especially your best friend,

like, you know, your characterism. I always like framing it that way. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with you, who with...

Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Bethany Frankel. We are reliving the best moments from all the seasons of the Real Housewives on my new

podcast, Rewives. From the table flips of New Jersey to the craziest hills of Beverly, no city will be spared. And I'm joined by my most fabulous celebrity friends that you will never expect to help me break down the drama. Kristen Chenoweth, Tori Spelling, Jerry Springer, Snooki, even Emmy winner Elizabeth Moss. The list goes on and on. So let's whip it up and mention it all because you can binge episodes of Rewives right now with so much more to come. Listen to Rewives on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Matt, have you had a chance to play a lot of villains since then? I feel like, I feel like for the first 10 years of my life, I played villains. I feel like you did a lot, right? Yeah. Did you, like, what did you learn about, because of the empathy you have to have for your character? And, like, how, I guess what have you learned about people and how has that affected your daily interactions with, I don't know, just people who feel like villains to you in your life? You know, I've always thought, like, I'm not a very judgmental person. And I, because I think we're all, like you said, we're all human.

We all come in this world. We're all kind of beautiful, right? Perfect creatures that in some way are conditioned or we're, I mean, granted, we do have to own responsibility. I'm not saying we don't, but I do think that everyone's human and we all bleed. And so I think, you know, it forces you to want to see the humanity in people. And maybe just compassion is a good word, right? Understanding.

Again, there's consequences and people have to own it. But I remember, yeah, I remember having a friend when I was young once got killed in a car wreck by a driver who was drinking. And it was like that, that young man made a bad mistake. But, you know, he wasn't a horrible human. This is not going to be a bit of Derek, but I think like, you know, he was probably a beautiful human in a lot of ways that made a very, very bad decision. I just thought, you know, people can't be judged by this one, I don't know, kind of singular. framework. I don't know if I went on the rear, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's that the idea that I always come back to is you're so much more than the worst thing you've ever done. Right. And I think

within that framework, it's really interesting to, you know, as, as Deb encourages Haley to in this episode, it's really interesting to find grace for people and the mistakes they've made along the way and the versions of themselves they've, you know, tried on and then moved on from as they evolve. That's natural life. That's humanity. We grow. Nobody's perfect. And if you are, you've never gone outside. I don't know what to say. But, you know, I also think it's really interesting to figure out how to extend that kind of grace to people and yourself and figure out how to create boundaries as an individual and as a society to say like, yeah, but if you cross so far outside the boundary, consequences have to change. Speaking of like real life implications of this

stuff, right? I'm friends with the guy that lives in Peyton Sawyer's house. Okay. And he had a baby when we were filming the show. And that baby is now like a senior in high school. She might be, going to college, but she's been in high school for the last few years. And they had no idea what we filmed in this episode because that basement set was built on stage. We didn't shoot that in the house. That's right. It doesn't have a basement. It doesn't even like have a basement. I don't think it has a basement at all. Doesn't it have an attic? It's not like houses in Wilmington have like crawl spaces. A lot of historic houses. It rains too much there. You can't have basement. Yeah, So they knew that, like, we did some stuff on the stairway because I think there were some dings in the woodwork.

You know, they were like, oh, because they leave. They go stay in a hotel when we film this stuff. So when this episode came out and they saw what happened in their quote unquote home, they were like horrified. They're just like, what is this? And so as their daughter grows up and knows that she lives in the Payton's hair house and starts watching, the show is like what the hell are you talking about fans used to creep around the house to go and see in the basement window which i think right i don't even know if that's real what do you remember about that basement set because it was they built that like overnight it was insane and so detailed

they did you know what i had a moment watching you guys in that first scene before i come in and you have all the lights set up? And I was like, okay, I know this is creepy as shit, but those lights are gorgeous. I just had like one moment where I was like, wow, the lighting department really made something, if this wasn't so gross, it would be romantic. Yeah. I remember trying to make sure I had all my lines down. I think we shot a lot of that in like a day or two, right? So it was just like nonstop. It was doing a play. You had so much to say. It was. And you were prepped, man. It was like a play. Wasn't that fun? I just remember. I remember of that too like is as as a dark as those scenes were like you just have to kind like

said play as an actor and i had so much fun with you to it and um yeah i get self-conscious about it because to your point you and i had fun when sof came down to the party we had fun like the three of us were having a really good time doing something so heightened and weird that it right as we're talking about it as grown-ups it makes me nervous that we're dismissing the subject matter but um Right. I think that's the only way you get through it, though, isn't it? Like, those are long hours and really intense emotions.

You kind of have to mess with yourself in that way. You have to find a way out. Like, I've never been on a set where dirtier jokes are told than SVU because you need a break. Right. Like, everybody there has, like, slapstick comedy down, like, nowhere I've ever been. It's so fun to work there. And it has to be because the subject matter is so dark that if you only focus on subject matter, you'll die. And I think that this episode was a lot like that for us.

Like, Hill, when you talk about how fun it was, I remember part of what was so much fun with you guys, you know, coming down to the basement was that this entire episode essentially was stunt choreography. So even though the subject matter was horrible, the three of us were dancing all day. Like, we were doing choreography. We were doing moves and things.

And so, and like when we would get something right, like, Hillary, when you had to like slap me and then punch me like when we landed that punch we all were like oh yeah everybody was like screaming like it looked so good and and so it gave us it did it gave us some levity and i think all the physicality was what kind of protected our brains from the the mental and emotional side of the subject matter getting too intense to embody because that's a gnarly place to be for three days at 17 hours a day you know that's too much for a little human let me ask you let me let's you I would have asked you this back then if I had been a smarter actor years ago.

But like, because you guys are doing that show every day of the week for, for years. And so when you're, that scene's kind of a departure and tone, you could say, from a lot of stuff. So do you approach it, do you approach it differently? Or is it feel like just another Tuesday where you're, you're an actor going in? It felt totally. No. No. It felt totally different. And we had worked with Tom Wright, this director, on other episodes that weren't this. You know, so this felt. totally totally different and I was excited because Peyton got to do that like

psycho turn with Derek but I'm telling you Matt we're watching those scenes back and I'm like Matt not made out like I have zero yeah yeah blocked it out though I bit him and I'm made him that's right listen I'm sorry I'm sorry I think I think I think I probably thought it was like a, like, this is a psycho choice. This is a crazy. I loved that Peyton took that turn in the episode. It was so satisfying. Yeah.

And then I think right after that when you, it's like, Derek looks so betrayed by you, you know? Like, and he's talking about grounding it. He was just like, how could you do this to me? I, you know, I trusted. That speech, oh, Peyton. Like, you're so disappointed. There was a moment there where you saw like the psycho, Peyton and the psycho Derek, and it felt very like natural born killers. And it was like, well, it'd be a spin-off.

Like, is this the thing that breaks Peyton Sawyer finally? And she just becomes his, you know, bride of Frankenstein. That could have been a fun little twist. That's right. For a moment, yeah, for a little bit of that arc there was, they were like well-matched fighters in the ring, you know? Yeah. Both with their, when they were on the offensive in their own ways, you know. Because for whatever set off your character, Peyton certainly had a whole basket of crap that could have set her off as well.

It is feasible that they both could go dark. Um, because that stuff was fun. Like I remember, I remember getting to do that and thinking like, like, Peyton's never gonna get an opportunity to do that again. Like let's enjoy this sandwich because it's the only thing to do it. yeah yeah you do you kind of yeah you're right i'm never thinking like i'm i may never work again after this because everyone's gonna hate but um it is like i said it does sound kind of morbid but

like it just was so it's like it's like playful you're it's opera 10 right and like from action to cut you you kind of lose yourself in it because like someone said like a horror movie if you're making one it's ridiculous because it's like a tennis ball or a fake monster but you have that so for those for those you know that two minute take you are 100% this is real you know so yeah yeah and we had to make some dorky things real okay so like when Peyton goes and hides in her bedroom and puts on the boxing gloves and then proceeds to like baby punch Derek until he head butts her we're sitting here cringing because we're like who gets up out of being tied in their basement and puts on boxing gloves

I loved it Only then to have you like But then the cheer camp line is just Oh yeah It's so funny And coming down The stairs The bottom of that pyramid

Like they're so in it We had to take it so so seriously But I buy it though I totally buy it In a total moment of panic And you just You say the first thing that comes to your mind That's improv

That's like and we do that in life You know when you're pushed to your furthest limit sometimes it's just like there's the boxing gloves i know how to use those i'm gonna back to use them i'm gonna put my gloves on all nine one don't be crazy yeah who's going for the phone you know you know what lines always stuck on me i've always wanted to like like incept it in other roles throughout my whole career which is they always lunge because i i get and then like my face and it's like ah i just it's kind of perfect you know they always Perfect. Well, it was the one moment of, of acknowledged camp in the scene. You know, like, scary movie did that so well, where Anna Ferris would be like, oh, no, I guess I'll go up the stairs, not out the front door. You know, like, they would acknowledge how ridiculous horror movies were. And I liked that we, in a grounded way, acknowledged, like, he's going to wake up. They always wake up. But it was, we had earned it at that moment, you know?

Yeah. Hey everyone, it's Dean Ungler. And Kailen Miller Keys. And Jared Haven, I'm here. I'm here too, guys. Hosts of the new podcast, Help We Suck at Being Newlyweds. Because I guess we just don't suck at dating anymore. No.

I mean, you're newlyweds. I am not a newlywed anymore. Yeah. I'm curious if I sucked at being a newlywed. I don't think so. I mean, I made it to the altar. And I am so happy to be joining you guys. I can't wait to talk about relationships, marriage,

and just everything in between. It's about time we have someone smart to join this podcast. It's too long between us. This young lady's a broadcast journalism major. She knows what she's doing. I'm so excited to be hosting a podcast with my soon-to-be wife

and, of course, my best friend, Jared. How's it going to make you feel working together now? You guys live together, we're together, going to get married? Yeah, it'll be interesting. You think you're going to get tired of each other? Absolutely, yes. Be sure to listen to help.

We suck at being newlyweds on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first thing. native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Hey dudes, I'm David Lashir. And I'm Christine Taylor, and we host the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called. If you all are nostalgic for the 90s, we just wanted to make sure you didn't miss amazing guests, like the Brady Bunch cast reunion, the white squall cast reunion with Jeff Bridges. We've got Ben Stiller. We've got the lead singer of Counting Crows, Adam Duritz, Jerry O'Connell. We also had a Hey Dude cast reunion. So come join us on Hey Dude the 90s called. We have so many more great guests coming up.

So please come back and join us. Listen to Hey Dude the 90s called on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I also just love hearing you say you thought you might never work again because people would hate you so much because all you do is work and you're like zooming into us from one of your Cowboys shows. Where are you? What are you working on? Tell the people where they can find sweet Matt, because psychoderic is gone. It's funny. I'm in my uncle's like Western Room, so you think I'm on my set. But yes, I've been in Santa Fe doing a show Walker Independence, which I'm loving. It's a prequel to the Walker, Texas Ranger story and takes place in, you know, the late 1800s and this kind of small emerging town called Independence, Texas, and these kind of colorful, Ecclactic characters and diverse characters, which is pretty cool that live there. And I play an outlaw.

Yeah, you do. Yeah. Robert. There he is. Eight year old me is very, very happy to go to work every day. I love it. You were so good in Hatfield-McCoy's, and I remember watching it with my husband and being like, I know him.

And my husband would be like, you don't know him. And I'm like, no, seriously, like, I know him. And we had like a very intimate storyline together. and we're friends and he was like okay good story i would just love for him to watch this at some point because yeah like what you proved yourself as a cowboy in that and now i mean you're just living every boy's dream right now just on a horse being i know i feel like you were born for westerns yeah i remember i remember doing a scene in hatfields and i'm like riding through a little ravine with Kevin Costner and a bunch of guys and the director says cut and he runs over.

He's like, Matt, you're just grinning. Like, you're, you know, like your brother was just murdered. What are you doing? And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm just so happy right now. I'm having the best time. I'll stop. You're like, it's not a conscious choice, I promise.

Sorry, Kevin. Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, no, I do. I mean, I guess, you know, every Texan looks to be a cowboy. So it's pretty fun to live you. I mean, you guys, you pursued your dream. and do what you love.

You got to use that little slice of Texas in this episode because when Derek reveals that he's the one that called Peyton, pretending. Oh, yeah. I forgot that. I forgot that. That's right. That was creepy, bro.

Yeah. Foreshadowing. You're right. Yeah. For like six episodes, we've been like, oh, well, that's cleared up. Yeah. Hey, you want a funny little tidbit? Here's something for all the viewers.

Like, remember when at the end of episode, I, whenever I appear at the door to take you to prom and I just punch, right? I remember, like, I hit the mat box. And for those people I don't know, it's like this little metal. They, they, that goes around the camera. It's like a little thin metal thing. And I, so I hit my head. It was no big deal, but it kind of bled.

But, like, to this day, I had this scar right here. And, am you serious? I hadn't thought about that. And I was watching that scene. I was like, that's when I got that scar right here. Oh, that's funny. Like, Hillary. And I ran into the camera.

cut my face oh god yeah i remember like trying to stop bleeding and stuff yeah i was like that's right you were so sweet because you're like a guest star so you're like no i don't want to hold camera and we're like mad it's okay you're like no your face is bleeding baby no this is it i'm i'm gonna use it let's use it make an art i love the duality of you know that last episode 415 begins with Peyton punching brook that's like the beginning part of the episode right ends with psychoderic Peyton and those bookends were really effective. It was, right. Yeah, it's a violence, man.

There's a lot of violence in these episodes. You got, you know, again, I just thought you, y'all's, y'all's kind of fight like confrontation scenes in the front yard were, those were really well done. Those were just really, really wonderful scenes. I hadn't watched those in years. Oh my God. Well, so yeah, when's the last time you revisited any of this? Well, I think I mentioned, I saw you guys.

engaged and so I was showing she was looking up scenes she's like you know what have you been in and I was like well some people remember me from this show and so she was like what so it's fun watching her watch psycho Derek kind of like boom I'm here so but that's such a weird feeling when you see your partner in a role like I was pregnant with our son before I watched my husband in the watchman and he's a bad man yeah He's like a rapist and hits women and does terrible things. And I'm sitting there pregnant with our child. Like, who is this person?

Oh, my God. You see a face that you love. And then you're just like, oh, God, this is atrocious. Was she a little reserved with you? Was she reserved with you after watching you as Psycho Derek? Was she a little quiet at dinner that night? She was a little bit quiet. Yeah, I think we might have.

Yeah. I think he stayed on her side of the best. for a couple nights. Yeah. But, yeah, man. But yeah, no, it's because, yeah, you know, as your families have grown and you guys have gotten married to things, I mean, what do your communities feel about one tree? That's kind of a broad question, but like, this is such a big part of culture, and it

traveled the world. And so what's it been like to you? It's weird. Well, Hillary and I laugh, because our husbands have never seen the show. Never. And Tyler Hilton sent one of his, like, merch hats to us. It's this embroidered hat that says I've never seen One Tree Hill. And one day, Grant grabbed a hat to, like, go out for a run.

And he comes home from Griffith Park, and he was, like, training for a race. He'd done, like, 10 miles. And he walks in the door, and he goes, I ran around the whole park wearing this hat. And he was, like, so embarrassed. And I was like, but you have never seen it. So it would be fine if somebody saw you wearing that hat. Right, right. It's kind of hilarious.

It's weird that a new generation is into it. And as my, Joy and I have kids that are in middle school, like, as our kids get older and more of their friends are aware of it, or it just is something that like enters their conversations, this is the kind of subject matter that I'm like, oh, God, I just never thought about being a parent when we filmed this stuff. Like, when my son sees me bite your face, like, that's going to be a weird day. yeah do your kids do kids in dust at school like what like Maria I think is too I don't know she's the kids that are watching TV or not watching Wentree Hill at 11 and 12 right now I think they're you know people who are picking it up for a little bit older right yeah yeah it's my region there are some young ones but they have like older siblings they have like a 17 year old sibling that has introduced them to it and it's more of just a novelty like that lady is at the supermarket yeah right she's an actress right but I don't think think they know yet no they haven't watched it you know over the years is how many how many men have come up to me that were you know you guys get this all the time so you know my my wife a girlfriend started one tree hill and then we and it's my favorite show you know we watched all seasons and we did it over weeks and we were obsessed so it's pretty cool so you still get recognized from the show

all the time yeah you know i was i was there for just such a moment in time with with you guys but It's amazing how that, how that's, you know, I've been all over the world on several continents and people talk about it, you know. Yeah. Well, to that point. I don't imagine what it's like for you guys. We know that we're eventually going to find out some Derek backstory as a means of softening

some of his behavior. Not that that's right. You know, bad guys are bad guys. And we don't need to validate sexual assault. But I think that you were so beloved by the cast and crew of this show that they wanted to humanize Derek in a way so that when you did go away, it wasn't just

da-da-da-da. Right. If you could have played any other male character on our show that was around for much longer, like if we've done to keep you for longer, is there a role that you're like, I could have done that? I would have been

into that. Oh, man, what would I want to do? That's a great question. I always, I was always jealous of, well, I I wanted, I wanted Lee Norse's sweet, endearing charm. Yeah. Mouth is like, you know, you'll love Mouth forever. I think you, who gives the note?

I think Antoine told him in one of these episodes, he's like, he's like, you know, on my tombstone, there's going to be, you know, like friend. And he's like, it's going to be a full funeral because everyone loves you or something like that. Yeah. I love, I love that line. I wanted Antoine's swag. Yeah.

He's so cool. In the world, it's like, I need my kids to, like, hang out with him and be like, this is confident. I don't know. That's a good question. You would have been a Rivercourt boy then. That's your vibe. Yeah. How was that, by the way, when you guys all got together with, there was a basketball game I saw?

How cool was that? Yeah, there was a convention in Wilmington. And those things are so nice because it's like, I don't know that any other show gets the opportunity to go back to the place that they filmed and be. with all of their casting crew because a lot of the crew shows up as well and be with the fan base in the places where we filmed like that's a really rare experience yeah it's trippy man sometimes you feel like you're at your own funeral when you're at a convention because everyone's like you meant so much to me and you're like i'm still here i'm still kicking y'all y'all might have that see i remember being a moment in to film another

show years later for like you know a year let's say and i'm just mirror like Like, it felt like the ghost of like, I was like, oh, my God, this is where this is the court and this is the house. And, you know, I think those where you lived, Hillary, it was like, oh, yeah, I remember all these memories. They're really, they're very special, you know, so it's cool. What are some dreams as an actor for you, like, in the future when you look at types of characters you want to play or projects you want to be a part of? What excites you? That's a great, that's such a great question. I love true stories and I love reading.

You know, just different different types of nonfiction, you know, I love periods or rather civil war, you know, I love, I love World War II, you know, different stories. So I'm like a uniform. But my biggest dream is I always have loved, you know, this might be surprised to people, but like, like I love, I love romance movies. I love like rom-coms. Oh my God, yeah, yeah. Like great love stories. Like I want to do. I want to do. another great love story about, you know, you know, you are so Nicholas Sparks. I can't. I can't. My God. You need to shoot a movie here in the Outer Banks and sweep someone up in some, you know, dune grass. I will go do a rom-com with you any time. I spent my entire holiday break just jamming through the Julia Roberts and Hugh Grant catalog. I am brimming with rom-com energy right now. Sophia, and we don't make them like that. Or I think we need to. No. And why? They're the best movies. I know. And I think like everyone loves them and they're just inspiring. And it's the opposite of, yeah, tying someone up in the basement. We just all want some happiness. This is going to sound so inappropriate. But I'm a big girl. Like, I'm a tall girl. And no one ever, um, I'm not an easy girl to pick up and see Derek like, like put his arm around Peyton's waist and pick her up. right the chair there is a part of that where i was like oh god just like applied in a romantic setting hot applied in a piece that not not i want you to take the skill set you have and apply it

to a hot scenario yeah that's right into it very into it yeah that's right oh my gosh matt thank you so much my chie grant with a beer yeah yes all right we're going to find joy's friends with Nicholas Sparks. Joy, you've got to find the right Nicholas Sparks book for Matt to be the lead man. So we could do some romance. Matt, thank you. You're such a pleasure. You're such a joy. Do you want to spin a wheel with us?

Yeah. Okay, great. Let's do it. We like to do superlatives. So we do a most likely to every week and we spin a wheel and we find out who is the most likely to take all of their and your secrets to the grave. Ooh.

We have to pick. Yeah. Is it amongst all of us or who you're? No, it's just anybody from the show. So any cast member, like real person and then any character. We pick one of each. So most likely to take your secrets to the grave. Hmm.

Hmm. I feel like. I mean, Hillary, I tell you all my secrets. Yeah. Like I love in this episode, episode, Mouth has told Shelly, like, you know, just like an episode ago, he's like, I'm not going to tell anybody we had sex. I'm never telling anybody we had sex. And then in this episode, he tells Rachel, like right away. We're like, Mouth, you weren't supposed to do

that, man. Um, I think the character that would take your secrets to the grave, well, we've got this little creepy cell phone situation with Allison Skagliotti in the hallway. She's been keeping some secrets. Oh, my goodness. What do you think, Matt? Who's going to keep your secrets? I would say you, Hillary. I think you would write and die with those secrets. I can neither confirm nor deny. Because if I confirm, just going to sit on everything.

I'll write a book about that when we're really old. Like, that was the big complaint when I put out rural diaries. People are like, there's nothing about one tree hill in here. And I'm like, yeah, because I have to keep that shit a secret. kids you're like we have a thing called a pact yeah right you guys I love it perfect uh Matt okay well you let me know when you're visiting your fiance in New York and we'll go we'll go start some rumors people will be like psychotech alive oh my god we must let's go stir up some trouble let's break the internet that'd be great let's do it I love

I thank you guys great to see you Matt great to see you honey yay yay all right I love you guys. All right, bye, darling. Bye, y'all. Have a good one. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.

Or email us at Drama Queen's at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Dramatic for the right team. Drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.