Drama Queens - Quentin ᐧ EP603 with Robbie Jones

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

We find out why Quentin was killed off (warning: the reason may make you just as mad as when it happened.) Sophia experiences a roller coaster of emotions as she both ugly cried and cringed in the rewatch. Plus, James Lafferty’s creative input, a special moment with Dawnn Lewis and a cast member real life skinny dipping?!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. You could be the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens. Queen's

Hey everybody Season 6 episode 3 Get Cape Where Cape Fly episode air date September 15th 2008 guys we have the inimitable Robbie Jones

here with us again back by popular demand you loved him in the Q&A you wanted more and we got more for you we brought him in this is a really big episode all about Quentin's

passing in the aftermath of that and we just would love to talk. Now, the strikes over with you more, Robbie, also about Quentin. Would you like to read the synopsis, Robbie? Okay. Let's see. What happened was I actually started to watch the episode. Did you also burst into tears immediately or no? It was close. I was, no joke. I was like, I started watching in like the very first, you know, literally the very first 45 seconds, you're like, oh man, this is hitting me. It's hit me. How did they do that? uh season six episode three get cape where cape fly air date september 15 2008 g whiz that's a long time ago

Lucas returns from Las Vegas and learns of a tragic death of Quentin fields as Nathan and Haley struggle to find a way to help Jamie understand the death of Quentin who was a close friend of theirs Lucas skills Nathan Haley and Peyton go to visit Quinn's mom and give their sympathies. Sammy meets Quinn's brother, Andre. Oh, Liz Freelander wrote, I mean, directed this. Man. That's why it's so good.

That checks out. She's great. She has such a skill for allowing us to be. And, you know, Robbie, we've talked about, it's also, hold on, I just have to say. It's so exciting to have you here and actually be able to talk about the show. Because for the whole strike, we haven't been able to talk about this with any of our friends. So, hi, I'm so glad you're our first post-strike friend to actually be able to talk about their work.

Yes. Well, thank you. I'm so honored to be here again. And this is beautiful. And I was feeling so weird the last time we were talking, not being able to, like, directly address anything. And I was like, man, there's so much to talk about, but we can't even talk about it. It's great.

Being like that job we did one time in an undisclosed place that we shan't discuss. Right. It's crazy. But, like, this is such a special episode. and it's so emotional and I think so much of it is because of the way that Liz shot it and allowed all of the scenes to breathe. I have a note. I like that they're letting us sit with it, the grief, the shock. It's patient. Yes. The episode is patient with our feelings about your character's passing. Yeah. And in a show this big with this many

characters so often it's like bam, bam, bam, bam, you know, you're just like running from scene to scene. And to really just sit on people's faces as they're feeling and processing, I just found such, like, relief in it. It kind of felt like a deep breath that they let us really be with our sadness. Yeah, Liz is great with that. There's a dance with the camera that some directors really understand. And they know how to get it out of their camera people, too, where it's not just choppy, cut, cut, cut. Sometimes that works. But, man, she really, her way of communication on set with the actors, with the crew and the camera guys, even with the producers who are giving her notes in real time as everything flows, she has such a, it's like a dance

watching her work and it comes through on screen. So she really was so perfect for this episode. Yeah, she was awesome. I wasn't there, but I got a chance to work with her a lot. I feel like over the seasons that I was there. And I felt like she was, she was one of my favorites. So, yeah, She's great. Robbie, did you watch this episode before, like when the show was airing in 2008? Or were you kind of like, man, I'm off the show. I don't want to know. No, I definitely watched.

I had to see what was going to happen. I tell people, so this is the funny part, right? So for years and years and years and years and years, when I would run into people who love the show, the first thing they would say to me nine times out of nine I would say nine times out of ten almost 100% of the time it's the very first thing they say to me

is go oh my gosh I cried so much when you died yeah nine times out pretty much 90% of that and I'd be like you know what the crazy part is I cried too and they always are like

no way and I'm like yeah and I knew it was coming. It was really that movie. So, like, when I did see the episode, it was like, oh, man, this is, you know, it really did all that. And to see how they made Quentin's life affect everyone else's life on the show. That was like, I thought that was pretty brilliant. And I thought it worked really, really well. And, you know, it was crazy. It was crazy. And it was crazy. sad and it was heartfelt and to see my little brother and my mama and all that stuff and it was crazy it was really it's heartbreaking can we rewind a little bit to because now that we get to talk to you about quentin about your character and being on the show um you know you said in our Q&A that you were

it was your first acting gig yes what what was it like beyond you know I know you said you we all had fun on set and that was really cool but we couldn't talk too much about it but now that you can did it was there any particular you're such a hard worker was there any kind

of research you had to do or any kind did it all feel just really natural and came very easily was what was the experience moving to Wilmington like for you

can you just sort of give us the lay of the land well I guess I'll start at the beginning I get the audition it was like you know it comes across

and you're like oh wow this is perfect this is perfect young basketball player got a main streak, all this stuff. So I go and I work the material with my acting class at the time. And I'm just like, ooh, this is going to be cool. It's kind of perfect. You know, I'm a basketball

player. I'm still playing basketball at the time. Going for the meeting, have a great meeting, feel like I did everything I wanted to do. Boom. Ooh, killed it. Ugh. Did the callback. And it all is going fantastic. And you can just tell. It's happening in the room. Like, it's happening. So I'll leave there. Get a call. for my manager, and he's like, hey, they want to see you play basketball. Can you come to the Warner Ranch? And I was like, I got this in the bag. I was like, it's a rap.

Done. Because I'm not even an actor at the time. You know what I mean? I'm a basketball player. I'm like, oh, this is going to, please, when? What time? So I go, I go to the range. They throw me a basketball.

They have a little basketball hoop set up in the back. And I'm just dunking and doing all kind of stuff. And literally, it was like 45 seconds. They're like, oh, that'll be enough. Thank you. No, that's fine. Come on. Can we get you to come on?

They're like, you're good. Believe me, you're good. And then immediately it was like, sell, sell, sell. This is why this is going to be great. You know, you're going to be awesome, blah, blah. And I was just like playing it super cool. Like, oh, okay, well, I hope it works out. And in my mind, I was like,

this is crazy this is happening I love that you had the wherewithal to play it cool yeah super like I don't have that I love that you have that first time out the gate it felt like it was like a college

recruiting trip or something you're gonna love Wilmington Robbie blah blah blah this is gonna be whatever so I get the job and fast forward the first day on set we know about that

we talked about that mind blowing amazing experience and then it just got better and better and better and better and more fun and more fun and to answer your question like I gave you the long version it just felt so natural to me because I had been some version of Q years ago when I was playing in high school and playing in college and playing professionally and I met Q before I had met guys like Q I had met you know I mean so that wasn't me but I definitely could tap into that because I had been around guys like that my whole life. But you weren't intimidated. That's what was so interesting, especially for somebody who is, it's their first gig.

A lot of people show up on sets, especially on a show that's doing really well. And they, the fact that you just let out your charisma on 11, like just let it out. There was no, you could tell that was happening so comfortably. And it was shocking.

I think a lot of people hold back or they're trying to craft it or, you know, they're working on it so hard. see all the footprints of the rehearsal all around their performance. And you were just so free. Why? How did you do that? I think it was, honestly, I felt like from the beginning, I felt like this character was going to be what I made it, if that makes sense. Like, I felt like they knew what they wanted, but I feel like if I gave them what I can bring, they would they would get on they would they would hop on the the train you know what I mean because I felt like

this character could be more than what it's written for and originally originally it was like a three to five episode arc and so it was like how do I make this guy pop off the page pop off the thing and that was kind of just like the fun part because everybody around me the creative juices were just like yeah do that do that no no what was that thing you just did do more of that you know i mean like i felt that and i told you um paul he was amazing he just was like he's such an actor's director he loved and he just he just was like he just poured into me and gave me the confidence and the energy to just like keep doing more of the stuff that felt natural for me that is so unusual for actors i think on tv shows at at a young age to come in and

not just because we're all so afraid we're never going to get another job it's like you go in you just want to do exactly what they want so that they hire you again and then they say good things about you so you move on to the next job to be able to come in at your first gig and rather than just play nice and give them exactly what they want you you were you were nice you were great but like you went way above and beyond and just took risks and then they paid off it's so exciting that's what it is that's what we're doing right why are you acting if you're not willing to do that or in an environment where they're fostering that it's so exciting it was a blessing that I think Paul was a real blessing because he was my first director.

And to have him be the guy who kind of laid the standard for me, like, no, this is how you're supposed to do it. I was like, oh, cool, I'm going to keep doing it. And it'll be different directors, but it was like, you already messed up and let Paul tell me what I'm supposed to do. I already got permission from dad. No, it's fine. No, it's fine. Paul told me I'm good. So I'm going to keep doing this thing.

You know what I mean? And to have someone you can trust like that, give you, kind of give you the keys to the castle your first time out of the gate. Like, I would imagine that that experience with him, because he is such an actor's director and he is, I mean, God, you know, six seasons in for us, such an incredible team captain. And, yeah, that you got to show up and work with him, it is striking to think about how freeing that probably was. And I would imagine that having had that initial experience on that first episode, you just go, oh, I want more of this. I want to keep feeling like this. For sure.

And that's the best of it. Like you were saying, Joy, like, what are we doing this for if not that feeling? When you get to be on set and feel joyful and happy and love the people that you're around and be creative and be laughing and be playing and be in your body, like we had that together so often on our show. I think that since then, like, I mean, God, I know what it's like to not have that at all and to be like, what is happening here? This is so scary. And then to also like get on a set where you go, it's back. Like, this is the feeling I want. This feels free. This feels fun. Like, you know, I had that on the last show I did Good Sam and I had that on my play in London this summer. Like, just groups of people where I was like, I can't wait to get back to set. I can't wait to get back to the theater. Like, what a gift. that is when we have those moments together. Yeah. Wow.

Is it weird now? Because, I mean, you read the synopsis. Like, I know it's weird for all of us that this episode aired in 2008. Like, what is time? It's fake. Is it weird? You know, I'm like, what are you talking about? I came up because of it.

Did you know that? I believe it is a lie. Like, what is it so weird to look back on it now and feel those feelings again? Because what I will tell you is this episode, is so visceral for me. Like, of the 187 episodes of this show that I made, this is top three experiences for me.

And, like, God, we got to the funeral and I was like, here it comes. I could smell the leaves on the ground. I remembered, I knew what was coming in the slow-mo when Jamie took the cape out. I knew what it would feel like to grab his little hand. Like, it's sense memory in my body.

It affected me so much. And do you have that? Like, does it take you right back there? Or does it feel like it was, you know, 15 years ago? Me? Mm-hmm. Well, I, the parts of the episodes that I saw, like I said, I wasn't actually there on set for this episode.

So to watch it, like I said, it just grabs your heart and breaks it because I know, better than anyone the arc of Quentin Fields and kind of where I always believed he was going and to have that cut short and then to see how it affected everybody on the show

and to know that in real life outside of the show it was being cut short it was kind of like a whatever multifaceted layered thing for me to know that like I'm watching the end of this all it was it hit me

heavy it was heavy you know and to know like okay this is this is it for for quentin fields but this is also it for Robbie Jones on one tree hill um so it was like oh this is man get it together Jones get it together man like this is not real but it just like you said there's a visceral feeling even though I wasn't even there just to watch a funeral of your character and to feel it on so many levels. Like, this is the death of Quentin Fields, but then also the death of Robbie on the show. It's like, wow. When you watch the show

on any other episode that you were on, though, does it ever take you back? Like, are there moments that you've had on the show that did take you back when you watch it? And you're like, oh, I can smell, like, what's Sophie is saying? Sophia's saying, like, you can smell the leaves. I can, you know, feel that. What were your, what are,

give me, like, top two. What are your memories on being on that show, like, BTS? So there was some stuff that me and James did out at the river court that we shot a lot out there. And I felt like there were just moments where you're just like in such a zone that it just brings you all back. As soon as you're watching it, you're just like, oh, man, I was zoning out that day. And then some of the stuff that we shot in Laney High School. That's why it's always so crazy when we go back there and do, you know, the stuff with the charity stuff. It's like, oh, man, it just brings it all back.

Like some of the stuff that even you were there, Joy, the stuff that, like, when you came to practice that day, we're running around playing, and I got the cast on and all that stuff, it's just like, oh, man, I remember that was right here. That was right there. And, like, even this past weekend when we were there, I was doing a meet and greet. And these two young ladies, they really love the show. And they were like, can you do that thing that you did with Jamie, the little dance routine? And I was like, you know that happened like right there, like on the floor, like right there. So like we totally like redid it and had some fun with it. But it's like, it all comes back to you just like boom.

Like it's a really, really kind of cool experience to watch these shows back years later and then just go, whoa, I feel all that. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for like hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose. and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi.

Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why. Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Well, we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacist. Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it? didn't make. Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Did you know that he was going to die? Did they tell you right away that this was the plan for Quentin? Or was this a surprise? Like, did you get the script and find out? Did your agent call you? How did this go down? You don't really want to know, Dee. I really do.

Yes. We've been trying to figure it out. This is, what I'm going to give you is the real, real. Are you ready? What, the real real? This is just between us, of course. Okay. And everybody else is to turn to a man.

So this, this all unfolded because my series regular deal fell apart. Damn it. What? I got an offer at the end of that season, be a series regular and it was not a good offer and my manager at the time was supposed to because this was my first gig we were going to use this series regular let me rewind two steps I was on set filming my first movie while this offer came in and this in this first movie It was like some momentum had started building.

I got the Montreal gig, and then I booked this movie with Forrest Whitaker. He just won the Oscar for Last King of Scotland. And this was his first movie after that. Everybody wanted this role. So I got this role in this film Hurricane Season. I'm in New Orleans filming this movie. And this is while we're on hiatus, just so the people at home know. Yeah.

So we got the offer. And it was like, oh, snap. Awesome. Let's use this to leverage. average agent. Let's get an agent now. We got an offer. Let's get this agent on board.

Let's meet with some agencies. Get them to negotiate this thing up to where we want to do. My manager, he did his own thing. He went rogue. Needless to say, we split waves after this whole thing. And then our EP called me and was like, hey, Rob. So we've been going back and forth.

with your manager and looking like this isn't going to happen because it got to one of those you know, take it or leave it situations but so here's the deal Rob I got this I got this idea

that we're going to kill Q and hey just understand it's not because of you we love you we wanted you but I have an idea of how this could really affect the whole show and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I literally was like, that's kind of brilliant. And I understand

and as much as I hate that this is happening, you've made a successful show. You're over 100 episodes in. I cannot question any decision you're making, no matter how much it affects me and the way I feel like is negative. I appreciate the opportunity. Love you, appreciate it. And he's like, we're going to bring you back some. And I was like, how are you going to do that? And he was like, I'll let you know later, but we're going to keep bringing you back a little bit. I was like, all right. We like ghosts on Wentry Hill. And that was that.

We had a nice long conversation about how he's going to kill my character. Wow. I was in my hotel room shooting another movie in between filming days. And I was heartbroken. Did that get into your head when you went back to work on the film set the next day? I was just so upset with my manager at the time. I just had to like flush it all down and compartmentalize. yeah but had no one you really have to separate yeah yeah but had no idea how our the whole

situation behind the scenes was all faulty it wasn't all it wasn't right on both on both sides it was it was messy but it turned out to be the biggest massive blessing that it could have ever been and it was it was it was supposed to happen like that and it's it's paid dividends a million times over, but that's the real deal. It was a series regular deal went wrong. And then it was like, option two is kill Q. It was never, it was never like, this is what we're going to do. He was supposed to be around. Add it to the list. Added to the list. It's so hard. Of all the ways we've been wronged, we got robbed of Brooke and Uncle Cooper. We got robbed to the robbery inventory. Damn it. Q was supposed to be around, guys. It was supposed to be around. You know what

I think is hard, and I will say on the heels of our strike, because we've, you know, Joy and Hillary and I have really tried to talk to the listeners and to the fans about like what the industry looks like. You know, I think the strike has been really illuminating because we've had so many people message us to be like, wow, we had no idea what you guys were fighting for. We had no idea what your union did. And we thought like all the actors just got paid all the money. Like, we didn't really know that most people are struggling in your industry, actors, crew, you know, the list goes on. And I think it's really powerful when we can kind of like remove the veil of illusion, right?

And I think something that a lot of people don't know and it leans into like, well, why didn't somebody say something? If it was a Me Too situation, if there was, you know, violence in the workplace or misbehavior or whatever, I think it's really powerful when we can tell stories like, about how very often young kids become collateral damage of grown-up egos. Like, we had a bunch of grown-ups who didn't want to pay you fairly, and by the way, that's ridiculous. Like, this show was making a fortune for a lot of people,

not us, unfortunately, but a lot of people. And people were tuning in for you, too, by the way. Yes. Like, you were really popular. They could have paid you fair wages, and they didn't want to. And suddenly, like, a young, unbearably talented person, becomes collateral damage because you have a grown-up manager who's got an ego and doesn't want to lose. And we've got grown-up executives who have egos and don't want to give in.

And like, it's heavy to be the kid who suffers for the faults of people old enough to be our parents, right? And nobody's telling us that, by the way. We're just bearing it, walking around going, I don't know what happened. Maybe I wasn't good enough. Maybe this, maybe that. And it just has nothing to do with us. We're doing the best we could do. Yeah. So I guess I just want to say thank you for being honest about it because I think a lot of people have been through versions of the story you just told. And I mean, I know I have. My God. And like, it is helpful to know that there are these practices at play in this space we work in. And I do think the more we kind of share with each other like you know the losses and the wins the better like my god you know me me and

the girls like we tell each we people are always like well you don't talk about like you know money or politics or whatever added to the list we're like hey what'd you get on that show should we talk what does your contract look like what provisions are you getting because i want to go argue like we share everything you have to now you have to that's so smart by the way you know oh yeah it's like It's how we protect each other. And I don't know. I'm just really grateful when people are willing to be like, you want to know what really happened, I'll tell you.

Yeah, exactly. I love that self, actually. It's such a powerful way also of eliminating the stereotype of jealousy and that constant, like, keeping a secret and I don't want to know, what do you have in this? It's just, let's just open up the floor. Let's open it all up. There's no reason to be unreasonable about whoever's where in their career. What's a reasonable thing about where you are on the list of, you know,

earning based on your overseas market or what you know what those are all things that are very real numbers it's totally reasonable to talk about those things and we shouldn't have to button everything up because we're afraid of each other when we could be so much more powerful together yeah we just got to give each other the cheat codes yeah totally you know I think it's important and something it's interesting talking about that I I saw a cheat code happening in this episode And, Robbie, I don't know if you know this, but obviously you had such a heavy storyline, Quentin and the whole Scott family. So you, you know, we were all hanging out on set every day, but you were doing most of your on-camera

work with Joy and James and Jackson. And, of course, Antoine and Chad. And there was such a cool thing that, like, I got so excited about watching this episode back because this was the first season that James started directing on our show. and he got so passionate about it I remember he was like starting to shadow the producers and starting to shadow Paul and all that stuff and when Nathan knocked on Brooke's door

I had this like immediate sense memory moment like I was saying earlier I had forgotten this until I saw the scene James went and advocated to the writers that like in all the connecting Nathan was doing with Quentin we were missing the Nathan and Brooke being like essentially the same characters in high school.

We were missing them connect as grownups about their journey and like he pitched that. He did. I didn't know that. Yes, he pitched that. He was like,

I think we're really missing an opportunity and with this character having gone through this thing like this violence, I think it's weird that this man who's been in her life

all this time who's the only person who knows her journey with toxic parents and whatever isn't going to talk to her about it and he was right.

It is such a good scene and it, I just was like, oh my God, I remember now he went and like argued that, I mean, not argued, had this great idea and they loved it and they put it in the episode and I was like, whoa, he was directing before he was even directing. Yeah. And like, that's a cheat code. Like having the confidence as an actor six years into a job to be like, hey, if this was like my real life with my real friends who I've been working with for six years, I would immediately go check on this person. Why aren't we doing that on camera? And they put it in the show. That boy deserves a writing credit. So good. Wait, okay,

let's talk about that scene, though, because I loved, one of my notes here is everyone's acting like Brooke is acting normal. Yeah. And it's really strange to me. And it's, I was so glad to see Nathan walk in. And even though he didn't acknowledge flat out, hey, you're being weird. Like this is beyond And just, you fell down the stairs and you had a weird couple of days. You clearly didn't fall down the stairs what's going on. Yeah, yeah. But he did, he was preserving her pride and privacy and all those things that she was clearly wanting to hold on to. But also letting her know, hey, I'm here for you in a very real and important way beyond a suggestion of therapy, which was nice, but still like, but still just not, which not noticing what's really going on.

Beyond like, here's your apartment key. and there's other, you know, really big deal things happening besides you falling down the stairs, Brooke, you know, beyond, he just dropped into a level of acknowledging that there was something deeper going on. And I appreciated that. I did too. And I liked that he didn't. He was really gentle, but he didn't, like Nathan doesn't let Brooke get away with it. When she says, I'm fine, really. His response is, that sounds like something I'd say. And then he goes into this whole thing, like, yes, we've experienced a loss, but it doesn't mean your problems are any less important. And then he reminds her, like, because there's that freeze of I don't know what to share. So he keeps sharing. He reminds her of their similar roads, their same cliques in high school, the parents that

were like children, we were these bad versions of ourselves, and look who we've become. And I know how hard it is. And I don't want you to isolate. I want you to come talk to me. Like, I'm an ally here for you. And I think there's something so important, interestingly, because Brooke has had this terrible relationship with her parents and they haven't been there for her. And Nathan has had this terrible relationship with Dan, but like Deb is finally showing up.

In a way, now that he has a mom who's showing up for him, he's able to show up for Brooke as the dad he is as Jamie's dad but he like I felt like he was being my father figure in this scene and it was so kind and like she's just never Brooks never had that yeah and it and it's a really interesting

thing to be in a in a moment in these characters lives where like the kids are now the parents and you get to be both I just loved it and I was like oh my God I completely forgot that the whole reason we had this scene is because James was like, hey, writers, you're really missing an important connection here. And they did it.

It's like so cool. I like the theme of that you were just, I think you started to get there, but it's that life moves on. Like everything keeps going. That's, you know, thinking about the way that Brooke is grieving and the way Nathan's talking to her. Yeah, everything moves on, but you're still important. Your problem here really matters. The way that watching Quentin's mother and family grieve and in this way of like being present in the moment, patient with their own grief, but also the acknowledgement of life moving on, that's how she had the ability to speak so much life and love into these six people standing in front of her in a moment when it should have been all about her. and she had that grace

to be able to turn it around and give it to them. Even the Dan and and Tori sorry Dan and Carrie stuff which part of me wishes they would have paused on that

until this episode was over because it just, it really does feel so disjointed. But even that, there was this element of it all life just keeps moving on and Haley in the classroom That is my favorite, that's my favorite Haley teacher moment ever.

Yes. The writing was really good. Oh. It was really good. It just hit the nail on the head. Life moves on and what's it all for and think about something bigger than the moment you're in, but be in the moment you're in. Oh, God, it's so complex. Right before we come into that big share for you with all the students, all these students that are grieving your loss,

like what do we do our friend is gone this person we looked to right before you give them essentially the the cheat code the like bigger meaning of it all uh Peyton does it for me she says life's too short to let the bitter ones change how awesome you are yes and it's that it's like this reminder that it can be over in an instant and there is meaning but you have to claim it you have to choose it and then and then we cut to you and you're helping a room full of kids, choose to lean into their community, choose to lean into their grief, choose to say the hard thing, yeah, write it on the desk, get it out of your body, this is what literature is, this is what life is, it's grief and pain and love and relationships. It's like,

I think the episode feels so big because it hits on the things that are, while it is so specific because it's about Quentin, it hits on the most universal truths we experience as Amen, yep. Right. Yeah, that scene was powerful. You and those kids, I was like, sheesh. And they had that kid who was like, what is it awful? You know, I was like, oh, man.

And you were just so joy. And I even loved that, you know, because this was Ashley's first episode coming into your classroom, Samantha. I loved that they had her narrate the opening and closing. of the episode. I loved that the student that met you. Yes. The total outsider. I can see how much this person affected this place. I want that. I want belonging like this. There was something more powerful even because she'd never met you. For sure. Like I'm telling you, top to bottom, this was really an episode. It put, it really did like iconica. What's the word I'm looking for? iconize you? What's the word?

It made you an icon? It made you it. Yeah, whatever. I'll say it the other way. It made canonized. Canonized. Econized. Yeah, iconized. We'll find it Monday. But it did. It puts you just smack in the middle of this revolutionary moment in the show. I can't think of, well, I can, but there's probably

on one hand, moments in the entire series like this. you can count on one hand that changed the course of everything for everyone. Yeah. I think like probably Nathan and Haley's marriage was a really big, that kind of shifted

everything got flipped a little upside down. And Peyton and Brooke and the kidnapping psychoderic attack kind of thing was pretty crazy. And then this, after this, I don't even know what happens. I don't know. I don't even

care. This is it. It was the pinnacle of our show. It was crazy. To say the list, it did. It really affected everything. It was so beautiful. You met so many new characters and like it just, it was like a catalyst for like, I don't know, the next phase of the show. Have you had to have people, have you had to walk people through anything as you've had fans come up to you over time? Is it ever been beyond just, oh my gosh, you were so great, I cried so hard when you died. Have you ever had anybody come up and share something with you that you've like, that the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, that, the, the, the, the.

process of grieving Quentin or what they went through with that where you really had to like you got to connect with somebody in a more meaningful way. I would love to say yes. That would sound so deep and poetic. Dude, it's all right. But no. It's worth asking the question. Because we get people come up all the time and they're like, you know, when this happened or when that happened, it was meaningful to me because ABC. So yeah. Yeah. Like it's more it's more like we have, we share some last because it's like oh my gosh i cried so much when you died you're alive though you're alive and i'm just like yeah yeah i'm alive yeah it's crazy i'm here you know you still you know yeah and they're like oh my gosh it's so amazing can i like touch you you're actually still alive

this is awesome you know so that that has happened so many times and that's always funny and then it's just like okay see you later oh my gosh he's alive And then, you know, that's kind of it. You know what was really sort of striking to me about this is, you know, because this is obviously the beginning of season six. And it was the beginning of season three when we dealt with our first real experience of storytelling around gun violence on the show. Yeah.

And to think about, I don't know, there's something that sort of took my breath away last week watching 602, when this happens to you, I was like, oh, wow, it's only the second time that we've talked about this in six years. And it was sort of this moment. Before we watched this today, I looked up because I was like, okay, out in the world, we experience more and more of these incidents and more and more of these incidents, especially that affect high school kids, school-aged kids and I was like what what was sort of changing there and this was 2008 and the assault weapons ban expired in 2004 and you know we've seen a 258% increase in in these gun violence incidents in schools since and there was there was like something that also really like sort of

broke my heart about that about the fact that when we were making our show this was still like a relatively rare occurrence and part of me just wants to acknowledge because you know we do have so many people rewatching it and we have so many kids in high school that we meet now as you're saying at these events that are so beautiful where their community gathers but like kids who only know this who only know that like every couple of days or every other week there's another one of these incidents that happens and they lose classmates and I don't I don't have, you know, an answer, but I just feel like it's worth, like, taking one moment to acknowledge that, you know, there's like a heartbreak, too, in the fact that this used to be rare when we were making a show about high school and now it's really common. And I don't know.

I just want to, like, hold any, like a moment of space for anybody who's listening with us who, like, this might be really triggering for. we just like we have this crisis and this problem and we're losing people all the time and I don't know I think because of how honest this episode felt and to your point like the scenes with the actress who played your mom Robbie like I don't know I just as we're talking I'm really struck by the fact that I'm proud of how sensitively we handled this because I know that this is a lot of people at home's real story. It was, it was handled very sensitively. There was so much nuance involved in processing of the violence, which is unusual also today.

And I really, yeah, it was, that was strange to see all of the, all of the violence, all the back and forth, even with the nanny carry stuff that felt. clunky and awkward, not because of the actors, but just because we were in this dance, this flow of Quentin and then moving into it another thing, but then seeing the grief in someone who is committing violence out of this place of grief causing a psychotic break, I guess. I mean, there's just so much nuance and in pain. Yeah, you're right. We did. We all did. a really nice job with that, and the writers really did as well. Yeah, I appreciated the tenderness and even to your point, like, part of me wishes we got a pause with the wild, like, Nanny Carey,

Dan, you know, crazy like Kathy Bates storyline. But I even appreciated that because of the heaviness of the loss of Quentin, they actually gave us a peek behind the curtain at Nanny Carey having experienced a loss as well. I needed that. I needed that. I needed to understand why. Can I interject really quickly? Please. And give a big, big kudos and shout out to Don Lewis. Dawn, that was her name. I knew it. Yes.

Oh, John. Oh, remarkable. Just to give some levity here, I grew up watching Don Lewis every week on TV on a different world as Jalisa. And when I found out, when I met her on set and she was my, I found out she was going to be my mom. I was like, wow. I'm really an actor. I'm really on TV. My mom is Jalisa from a different world.

I loved her. I loved her. I love that show. Me too. And I'm like, man, can we just give a salute to her amazing performance as Queen's mom? Because she killed those scenes in that episode and all the scenes that she did. So much dignity and grace. Wow.

So shout out to Don Lewis. We love you. Yes. And you know what? Don, I shared such a special experience, like a special moment with Don. You did? Because it was 2008. And, you know, I'd been running around working on the presidential campaign for a year.

And she and I watched the election results come in when Barack Obama got elected. Wow. We were together. at a restaurant watching on like all the all the TVs that normally ran sports in Wilmington were running the election and I was crying and I looked to my left and Dawn was sitting next to me and she just started to sob and it was this like unbelievably profound moment because there was so much hope and I was watching this incredible moment in history yeah with this incredible

like respected iconic actress this powerhouse of a black woman who just said I didn't know if I'd ever get to see this and she just started to sob and I wrapped my arms around her and I was like we don't know each other very well but I love you you know because we were there together as we always are often are in these moments

like we're away from our families we're away from people because we're working together and it's beautiful but it can be strange when like a monumental thing happens and she and I just sat there holding each other crying being like what is this is magical

it was wild it was so cool yeah it was so so special I just love her yeah that's amazing that's an amazing story I love that I'm like I'm really glad

I'm here with you yeah that's a great story wow it may look different Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something

we've been doing for the hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi.

Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why. Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare. And frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts.

I have a question. I want to pivot a little bit. Pivot. Joy, pivot. It's just because I want to get through some of these notes and make sure we hit all. You made a comment when we were watching, Sophia, when we did the scene in the mirror with the lipstick. You said, I hated that scene.

And it wasn't even a, I mean, I guess it was a scene, but it was just a shot, really. Yeah, it was like an eighth of a page moment. So she's staring in the mirror. It's the same thing as the writing on the projector board, you know, when it's all the like, not good enough, not blah, blah, blah enough. It was the same type of deal, but it was now we're doing a beautiful mind. Or what's the Matt Damon one?

Revenge. Payback. And I was like, we did one of these ones where we projected words on my face. And it was so profound. And this feels so lame. Oh, no. written in lipstick on the mirror, circling her bruises with a word on it.

And like, one's a square and one's a circle and one's a triangle. I'm like, what weird shapes Madlibs is this? Like, it was just so, it was bad.

And I was like, could I not have just looked in the mirror? Like, you guys have me like shooting a gun straight down the lens of camera in this episode. I think people can tell I'm pretty upset.

Like, I don't know if we needed avenge and payback She likes to write on walls. I'm down. I just thought it was so cheesy. Did you have to stand there while they set that shot up? Because how else did they, how else did they circle the bruises in the right place and all that?

Yeah, I must have. I must have stood there for the shapes and then they, like, drew in the words while I attempted not to expire from embarrassment. And then we rolled on the camera. I mean, I said, what is your point? Robbie Paul Johanson is a good team captain. And he's like, you got to commit. You don't have to like it, but you have to commit. And I was like, oh, man.

This is all just so hilarious to me, the look on your face when she started talking about the scene. I knew. I was like, oh, God, here we go. It's just like, and I get that not everything can be the best. Not every scene can be the best scene. Right. But sometimes I'm just like, we're so much better than this. This is what we're doing.

Right, come on. This whole episode is so good. And this feels, this feels. this feels right yeah it was it was a bit of a stretch it was a little bit

of a stretch it was that's hilarious I didn't love it right but I committed right yeah so the self was like this what we're doing really

you know what I will say though I because I really do think like jokes aside about how embarrassed I was there was so much that was so subtle in this episode

like I have so many notes about things like the ease you see between Lucas and Peyton. Like there's a gentleness between Hillary and Chad that is so beautiful in this episode. There is a, there is a quiet. It was a breath. We need it. And there's like, there's a quiet to the hurt that you see people expressing. Like Antoine's entire performance in this episode is so beautiful. It's reserved and it's honest and it's heartbroken. And when it cuts to him in another, you know, eighth of a page moment, standing in the gym alone on the logo,

crying, like everything in the episode was so subtle and beautiful. And I think maybe that's why my like face art stood out. I was like, this isn't subtle. Madlib's face, lipstick face art. Let's not. We don't need to do this. It's too much. Everything is so gentle and so beautiful in this whole script. Antoine was great, by the way. Like that was so great. That's in my notes too. He, He really nailed it. And he doesn't get a chance in our show to be emotional very often. He's one of the comic relief guys. He's relied upon to be coming with some sincere advice on occasion and also be funny.

Yeah. So, yeah, this felt great to see him just be allowed to express himself in a new way. I mean, when under his breath, he said to Chad, how does a mother ever breathe again? Oh. Yeah. It sucker punched me right in the heart. I was like, no, it hurts. Me too.

It's just beautiful. He was beautiful. Okay, I'm going to take a poll, though. It's Deb walking over to skills in the middle of the funeral. Yes. What do we think about this? What do we think about this? Yes or no?

Is it appropriate or is it not? Here's the thing. As a human. Robbie's dying. You want to hold the person you love. as a human who is having sex with her I feel like it's not the moment hold your son you said it you said it

I was like this is when you're going to reveal I think you were going to say it out loud you said it big reveal I mean like everybody can't be perfect I loved it for our show and for storyline purposes and for the drama it's going to cause yes it had to happen but curringe. Oh. Oof.

I just had to bring it up. I had to. You see her like look over at skills and we both just went, oh, oh, God, oh, no, don't do it. And then not only, she didn't just, like, go put her arm around him. She put her arm under his shoulder and then she put her other arm on his tummy. Like, the lower tummy touch is so intimate. I was like, no. No.

Love the tummy touch. The tummy touch. It's not right I never I never recalled that before That's really Yeah she tummy touched me though

It was amazing I know Maybe it's very uncomfortable I don't have anything else Except Jamie is the most advanced 5 year old ever That's all that I have here Sowing a cape

What's he like 12 Yeah I know right I think he was 8 I think he was 8 He probably should have been Yeah, he had to be five for the timeline of the show, but I never met a five-year-old that was making those kinds of decisions and having those conversations and sewing. Advocating for himself to go to the funeral and dressing himself in his little suit? Oh, man.

The crooked tie ruined me. I was like, okay, I'm done. The way they wrote him processing all of this was so good. It was like, he just was trying to like continue on. Oh, he's going to love this cape, blah, blah, blah. and then when it just drops it on the oh my gosh it's heartbreaking when he drops it on the basket you're just like oh my heart yeah yeah well i love that that's the thing that sent broke over the edge too it was like finally she broke and could release all that oh which we've been waiting for we've been holding our breath for like three episodes for that yeah well and i think when you are when you are in

that state when you're experiencing you've experienced trauma and you are dissociating it often can't be your own thing that puts you back in your feelings it's something you witness another person go through that's true and oh boy like the way that it cracked her in the story it really it did to me it did it to me today the minute he opened that little box I was like here it comes oh god and I was just sobbing it's like it's so it's so intense it's just such a pure moment

and yeah we were we were so honest about grief in this episode and I think it's probably why everybody always cries because it's it's impossible to sit with this with this little boy and not sit with your own emotion

right how old are your kids again two and five two and five I mean as you've got a you've got somebody who's supposed to be Jamie's age right now. I know and I'm just like imagine her trying to process some grief right now.

I try to keep it so far away from her if we have anything that pops up like that. Yeah. She's not going to go to the funeral. I'll just go. You know what I mean? Yeah. She doesn't need to be dealing with that kind of stuff right now. So.

Yeah. Oh yeah, that was another thing. Yeah. Nathan with the flashback of of the funeral with his grandfather and Dan talking about what a crazy story I don't have anything to say about it I just it was on my mind that's all

yeah that was one of those other moments where you were like huh interesting choice in this episode we needed to do that I feel like there was time we could have spent other places but sure yeah okay no problem I would have much rather have seen a flashback of Quentin yeah did we even see him at all

in the episode no no no just photos of you yeah it was just like pictures of you with your family. What I did love was getting to finally meet Quentin's little brother. That kid was so cute and he was so sweet and good on set, too. Remember what a sweet he was? Just a sweet little angel. And the connection between him and Jackson was so special because you got to see these kids figure it out a little bit together. And oh my God, when your little brother got up and took your place in the line with the team and put your jersey out, sobbed. I just ugly cried. I was like, I got to go. Oh. Oh, yeah. It's beautiful.

Yeah. All the little details were really beautiful. And I had met that little boy. I met all of them. Don and the little brother and all that stuff. And I was like, to see this little boy doing that, what? Wow. Wow. He's that little boy is what I remember the most about this episode besides standing at graveside. And he's a grown man now. It would be really interesting to see if he remembers any of this It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why. Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies.

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Well, we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacist. Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries.

This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it? didn't make. Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so Jessica's question is really good and so on topic. And it's actually for you and me, Joy.

She says, do you remember how Jackson handled the filming of Quentin's funeral as his character's mom and godmother? How did you two walk him through the world? weight of this episode, it feels like a lot to handle for a young kid. It's a great question. I do think it's important to touch on something we were just speaking about, that even though Jamie is five, Jackson was eight or nine years old by this point. So he was much, he had many more years under his belt of sort of awareness.

And I think, honestly, you know, we really deferred to his mom at this point. It was like, how do you want us to talk to him about this? Should we just make set fun? You know, she really had to talk to him about what wasn't real, but what was being represented and why it deserved reverence and respect, but didn't have to really be sad. Yeah. So he was... That feels important.

I think that's absolutely right. And he was also at an age where he was already watching, he was watching movies, and he was, you know, he was seeing... Yeah. There's a lot of stuff that, like, a 7-8-year-old boys are. watching that where you see people die, you see people sad and grieving and all this kind of stuff that are, it's probably more action movies and stuff, but I think he still had experienced watching a lot of that. So I felt like he was just mimicking and doing his best based on what he had seen. And he did a great job. And, uh, but I don't, I think set was kind of fun. I know he

missed you, Robbie. I know he really was upset that you were gone. He was. Yeah. I don't know that he was, he wasn't like sad, crying, upset like, this is real. I think it was just like, he was super bummed that, you know, you guys got on. Like, he had so much fun with you. And it was like, well, I'm here I am making friends. It was like probably the first introduction to one of the hardest parts of this industry, which is make friends go away, make new friends go away, make new friends go away. That's hard.

And for a kid to have to get introduced to that, is tough. So yeah, I know he was upset about that. But in terms of the weight and the heaviness of the storyline, I think it felt like probably in every other day on set thing. He was just doing what he did, was being an actor. And I think because he'd been with us for a whole year at this point, he got so good at mirroring energy.

so when scenes were playful and we'd play with him like when you guys would dance in the gym he was ready to play and if everyone was serious he knew he was also supposed to be serious and I think that made it easier for him I would have probably been a little

not worried but like more concerned if this had been his third episode ever but it was his third episode of his second season he was so practiced with us by then that I think the sort of safety of our onset family also was really helpful and you know his mom was around every day so he had a lot of people to go to and talk to and process with and answer his questions it's a really

good question though thank you Jessica thanks Jessica yeah should we spin a wheel should we end on a high note yes please Robbie we you didn't get to do this with us last time we like to do we spin a wheel every week and we figure out what you're most likely to is whoa you know high school yearbook like Most likely to succeed. Most likely to open up a business in a small town. Who is most likely to, you read it. Most likely to go skinny dipping at a hotel? Ah!

Okay. So what character do you think and what actual cast member do you think? We do both. Oh. Oh. Which character? Do I think it's most likely to go skinny dipping at a hotel and what's cast member? I think it's most likely to go skinny dipping at a hotel.

That is a great. okay I love it you let my wheels turn are you making that Facebook is it's you no definitely not me

100% not me I don't know not Quentin and not Robbie you look like you have a cute secret and I can't wait to hear what it is

well well always have a little something okay all right what character do we think the character that I think

that will be most likely to go skinny dipping at a hotel is crazy nanny Tori Yeah Nanny Carey

I put all her names together Nanny Carrie I think she would do it in a heartbeat or Barbara Barbara in real life

Yeah I think That's genius I was gonna say Deb I was too I don't I don't know

I don't know if Barrow would go skinny dipping in a hotel but maybe she would I feel like she would She gives those vibes Y'all Here's what I'm gonna say

I mean Robbie you are one of our favorite family men but for your friends over here who've been divorced like phase two is always a little wild and barbara is in barbara is in the sexiest phase two i've ever seen a human be in so like if phase two barbara is down to skinny dip like i'm not i'm not like a naked person but if barbara was like we're going skinny dipping i'd be like let's go like i would do anything that woman told me at this point so like all bets are off I don't know what to say. It's so good.

I got to tell you, though, guys, I really think in real life the person who would actually go skinny dipping in a hotel is Moira Kelly. I love that answer. I really believe that. I love that answer. Because she's a sleeper hit. She wouldn't expect it, but then it tracks. She's so fun, though. She loves to party.

She loves to have fun. She just is like, she keeps it all under wraps. but I 1,000% see her at 2 o'clock in the morning being like, come on, come on, let's go. Come on. Nobody's going to see. Let's go. Being like, look, all the windows are dark. No one will see it. And if they do, who cares? That's amazing. I love it. Oh, man. I love it. Oh, thank you for joining us, Robbie. This was amazing.

Thank you, ladies. Thank you, honey. This is great. This is beautiful. You are such a treat. And thank you, you know, for our friends at home. we are recording this episode the day before Thanksgiving as happens when people live all over the country and have children to wrangle. Hillary had a kid upside down moment and had to run and fill in for something going on on the East Coast. And we called Robbie and we're like, hey, what are you doing in five minutes? Do you want to get on a Zoom with us and be our third co-host today? And this sweet angel of a man said yes. So thank you for not only being the best human, but like for always showing up when your people need you. It's always a joy.

Well, thank you for having me, and I appreciate you calling me all of those amazing things. We love you. We love you, Robbie. And this was such a pleasure. So much fun. Always great. See you your faces. Yes. We love you. Next episode, Season 6, Episode 4, Bridge Over Troubled Water.

Yep, here we go again. Here comes the drama. Thanks, y'all. Have a good one. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-Harendt, or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dreamer for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.