Drama Queens - Rosie O'Donnell - part 2

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

More with Rosie O'Donnell as she shares the heartbreaking reason she came out publicly in 2002 and what raising a child with autism has taught her about parenting and acceptance. Plus, hear all about her new one-woman show and what fans can expect when she fills in as host on Jimmy Kimmel Live!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome back with Smarties. Let's dive right back into our fantastic conversation with Rosie O'Donnell. When you came out in public, I mean, yes, all bets were kind of off societally. I think people realized so much of what they thought they cared about was bullshit after 9-11 happened.

Like, what are we fighting about? Look what happens in the world. You know, it's like, it's that seismic experience of when you have a death in the family and then everyone stops fighting. You're like, I can't believe we wasted all this time. But it was still, I mean, it was still a risk. Like, I remember watching Ellen and she came out and her show got canceled. Like, I remember those things. Yes, but I came out because we had had a foster child that we were not allowed to adopt.

and because we were gay. Yeah. There were two male nurses, Lofton and Crouto, who had taken AIDS babies during the AIDS crisis when the parents were both died of drug addiction, taken the HIV-positive children, and adopted, fostered them. And then some of them zero-converted to negative because of their care and treatment,

and sometimes that happens with babies. So they went to adopt the 14-year-old that had serial converted as a toddler, and the Florida state government wouldn't allow them to adopt the child that they raised because he was now a viable adoption, and they didn't want gay people to adopt him. So they couldn't even adopt the foster child they raised. And that was exactly the position I was in. I could not adopt the foster child I raised because I'm gay. So my choice would be to lie. Are you now or have you ever been a homosexual? To lie on the court papers, therefore maybe having strange people try to nullify the adoption

and it would have been probably nullified because I am a lesbian and there's, you know, nothing's going to change that. I mean, I don't expect any changes, but look at Jojo Siwa, but she is very young. She's a very young person. You know, she's finding herself. She's figuring stuff out. That's what I say. I mean, every gay woman I know has a dalliance with men at some time.

I mean, there's very few gold star lesbians, as they call themselves. Yeah, I know a few, but not a lot. I mean, I spent a very long time thinking I was just a bisexual woman out here. Turns out. Yeah. Don't think so. Yeah, well, you know, it's hard to think ourselves, right? It's hard to figure out.

You know, in my show, I talk about, my daughter saying to me, are you non-binary? And I said, no. And they said, are you sure? And I said, yes. And I said, then what are you? And I said, I'm an OG lesbian bitch. Bitch is pejorative, especially for a feminist.

Incredible. Stuck up 11 years old. Yeah. You're like, let me have my terms. Well, I was just like, that's a pretty elaborate thought process for a little kid. go to. For an 11-year-old to know pejorative in the first place is already wildly impressive. Well, she has a thing called hyperlexia, which means and echolalia, two things that a lot of autistic kids have. One of them is when there's like a tape recorder in your brain. This is echolalia.

And if you hear something, your brain records it. And then you can recite it in the dialect that you heard it. So she was at school. and a boy kept calling her psycho. So I asked the teacher, which was the father, and they told me, I went over if the father introduced myself and said, why does your kid call my kid a psycho? And he goes, listen, it's very upsetting, but my son is very sensitive, and she tells them scary stories.

I said, really? I've never heard her tell a scary story. What's the scary story? He says, where's Waldo? Say, where's Walt? With the striped shirt, how scary is where's Waldo? He goes, that's what he tells me. I go home. I say, Clay, do you have a story? Where's Waldo? She said, yeah. I tell it at school a lot. Half the kids like it. Half the kids hate it. Those are pretty good odds. I said, yeah, you're right. Those are pretty good odds. Can you tell me the story? She says, yeah. She takes a breath. She goes, it was a dark and dreary night in the bowels of the kingdom. The dungeons were full of stank from rats and fetid. I said to her, stop, stop. What are you doing? She said, that's the story of of where it's Waldo. That's how it begins. And she can recite the entire thing.

That's called echolalian. And then she has hyperlexia. When she was in second grade, the teacher said we have to test her vocabulary. And they give kids in second grade 100 words, and she got 99 right. And the only word she got wrong was broom. And that's because she said a sweeper because she used to watch Peppa Pig. And that's what they called on Peppa Pig. And when she was two to four and a half, she spoke with a British accent where people would say, we'd be at the park.

And she'd say, mommy, might I have a spot of tea? And the woman would say, you adopted from London? I said, no. She's from Texas. She has autism, echolalia, and hyperlexia. Wow. So she's like this little... She's like a little linguistic prodigy.

Yes. Incredible. And she has, you know, she has moderate autism, you know. Not people say hers is very light. I'm like, theirs is very light. I'm like, no, it's actually moderate. And, you know, I just don't always discuss the more difficult stuff because I feel as though, you know, that's her business.

The light that I show her in is the brilliance of her. Yeah. Of course. is it an interesting thing to have a young one with neurodifference because one of the things that fascinates me, even learning about my own, where I'm like, oh, it's not just me. Interesting. Okay. Nothing like being an overachiever who gets diagnosed in your 40s. That's a fun journey.

Yes, exactly. I think about what it must be like to be a kid learning how your brain works now because there's so much research. I mean, even like a few months ago, researchers believe that they've proven that ADHD is a developmental advantage. And they sort of went through the whole reasoning of this and what it offers in terms of creative problem solving and how ADHD brains helped us survive crazier times when there weren't guaranteed resources. And like, I wish I'd known this. I completely believe that. Wow.

Yeah. I always tell people, you know, ADD has really worked for me. So, you know, I don't know what to tell you. But when I was on my show, the University of Seattle, I believe it was a Bill Gates study, was doing all this autism research. And they called and sent a letter, they wanted to test me for autism because of my ability to retain lyrics and jingles and songs. And they said, it's really not normal what you're able to do. And I was like, wow, that's exciting. but I have a kid and I can't, I'm doing a show, I can't really fly to be tested for three days in case I might have autism, which at the time, you know, I didn't think twice about it.

But now that I've been raising this child, I go, I see, you know, I used to think all my friends who had kids who were autistic, I thought I should be the one to get an autistic kid. I would understand. And I think I do in a way that you have to, if you're an autistic, autism parent and you learn your own language and routines with them that are often misunderstood by people who love you and love the child. Yes. You know, like my child sleeps in the bed with me still.

And they're 13 and it's exhausting. It's exhausting to not, you know, to be hit with, you know, a kick or, you know, not in a violent way, just sleeping. Sleeping kids are very active. Very active. And, you know, a lot of people have judgment in my world and say, you know, you have to do this, you have to do that. And I thought she was out. Now, she was out for about six months.

And then I went away to Australia to work for three weeks. And when I came back, back in the bed. Right? So everyone that I talk to, all of our helpers, everyone says when they're ready, they're, will go. They'll go. And then that will be that. Don't worry.

This is not going to be, you know, they're going to end up their whole life doing this, you know. Right. What a gift, though, to be in this time, you know, that your kid gets to be raised by you because if you were your kid's age with your parents, you might not have been given the patience. No, no. To develop in the way you needed to. Yeah. Everyone thought that you have to be stricter with these kids.

My kids think that too. They're like, you have to be stricter with them. I'm like, listen, you guys, this is a different situation. You guys didn't sleep with me, remember? What do you think? I changed as a mom? Or did the kid change? And there's a diagnosis, you know?

Yeah. There's a doctor's diagnosis of this. This is someone who does not have Apple. software. They have some strange computer that you have to figure out how to use. And it's not one you've ever seen before and you're not good at coding and you don't know the land. And you just keep freaking hitting the keys and trying this and trying that and, you know, and mostly their self-esteem. Now, if I were to send you pictures of how they just went out, we're here in the Jersey Shore. And we are doing a family two weeks hang out at the Jersey Shore. And

my son who just had a baby and his wife are coming with the baby, who's three months old. So that's unbelievable. But we were at the Jersey Shore and she had on a green wig. She's 13. Goggles and leather gloves. It's 85 degrees and a skirt and boots. Amazing. Different kinds of She dresses like Cindy Lauper in 1980. I was going to say this. It feels very Betsy Johnson. Cindy Lopper, yes. Yes, yes.

1980. So cool. Yeah. So many artists I know have ADHD, autism spectrum. They have some, they have some four-letter three little ditty and, you know, figuring out yourself is a life journey, you know. It's not like you, oh, well, that's what I am. So therefore, I stop growing and I just stay in this one definition of who I am.

But moving to Ireland really forced me to step out of my comfort zone, you know. I was going to ask if some of this feels related to getting so far outside the system you've been used to. Because a different brain is, to your point, a different operating system. And I'm so curious what it's been like to live overseas and outside of the sort of Americanness we're all so steeped in. Well, you know, the greatest thing about it is the lack of celebrity culture in Ireland. Because, you know, people would say to us, welcome, Clay, welcome Rosie. You belong here in Ireland. Never can I have a picture.

Can I have. So Clay and I go to this place and where it's an outdoor place we can get a burger and couple next to us with a little baby. and Clay's playing with the baby and me and the couple are talking. So it turns out we sort of had dinner together but not at the same table, but really close. And after about two hours,

they said, thank you for talking to us, Rosie, and I just want to let you know we're both big fans. And I said, oh, you just thought you'd bring it up here at the end of the dinner? And he goes, well, it's not the most important thing, no, is it? And I was like a sentence never heard in America. Wow.

And so there's a lack of celebrity culture, which allows you to be seen and live as a full, completely integrated person, you know, with no, none of the tendrils of fame, right? It drags behind you sometimes. And, you know, it's very hard to talk about because in America, it's held up as the be-all-end-all. So if you say anything about it that, you know, people get mad, you know, what do you... God forbid you complain. You're ruining my dream of what it is, just because,

be quiet and be happier there, you know? Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Hello. My gosh. Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish, right inside the free IHard Radio app.

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Search video podcasts and tap watch. That thing that you said, you know, to be able to really be a full and integrated human, what I think people don't understand is that the box, like it clamps around you and then it squeezes. You know, like one of those Indiana Jones kind of scenes where the rocks are getting closer. And it doesn't mean you don't love what you do. it means you love it so much that you put up with the weirdness of people not treating you like a person anymore. But sometimes it's gone before you know it. Right.

It can be gone in a flash. Like mine was gone after the first day of my show. Wow. Really? Just overnight. Overnight. Holy shit. Now, I had done a bunch of movies.

I had, you know, so it was different. I was not known, but to be super known, like it. And in the category with someone. as powerful and meteor-esque as Oprah Winfrey. Yeah. I mean, that's a pretty powerful soul. Yes. In every way that you can measure it, you know.

When you think about getting some of your personhood back over there in a way, do you think the space Ireland gave you is why you're ready to come back and do your next show? I think the space Ireland gave me made me want to come back and see my son's baby. And I had been doing it in Australia, in Scotland, and I had been doing it in Europe. So I've done about 50 or 60 show performances of it already. Oh, my God, I didn't realize. Yeah. So then when I'm going to be in America to see my son's baby, I said, can we just do like, you know,

four like 12 shows maybe four a week and um in a little theater darrell roth who's a big broadway producer i've worked with before and i really enjoy her she's just one another tony and so she said you know let me present it and we'll do 12 shows what do you say and you know so we're going to do that and um you know i wanted to see with the changes that i've made because the is essentially a love letter to Ireland. It really is. And so I had to take out a lot of the Irish stuff. The second part of the show is really much more about all the Irish stuff.

Right. And it starts with the day my mother died and it ends with the last day I saw her. So they're very sad parts in it as well. And sometimes people in the audience cry, you know, and they're very startled at the beginning when that's how it starts. They're like, wait a minute. Isn't this supposed to be a comedy show? Right. They're like, wait, Rosie, you're so funny. Why am I crying? Where's the Trump jokes? Right, right, right. We thought you were going to call him a petty little bitch. Exactly. Come on. Do it. Do it. Yeah. Wow. Well, so you kick off next week in New York, Wednesday the 22nd. What do you think it's going to feel like to be back in New York?

York for you. Because like this, I know Ireland's home, but like this is home too, right? Yeah, this is definitely home. You know, it feels good and familiar. It also feels very loud. I feel a little bit more anxiety. Just, you know, in New York, sometimes the days New York wins. You know, New York is a beast, right? And that's where I'm staying and where I'm doing the show. And, you know, I'm, I sold everything before I left. And so I'm hoping to get like a place in New Jersey near my kids so that I could, when I'm home, we can have a home base here as well, you know. So we're planning on doing that. And, you know, I don't know how long we'll stay there. I think it really does depend on what happens politically in the country. And if I feel mentally healthy enough to, you know, battle those,

those demons and and some days I do some days I feel very strong and other days I feel like oh boy this is a lot you know yeah he's like bombards you he's always he's doing something you can't even watch the soccer game or you know he ruined everything in my opinion it's really like dealing with him is like a very horrible version of the tomato festival that happens in italy every summer You're just getting Pelted in the face all the time It's like stop You know

And I know that's their whole thing Like him and Bannon They're like flood the zone with shit And they won't know what to But it's like nobody wants to be On the receiving end Of a fire hose of shit And that that's your goal

Just like says so much about you So I get it There are days like I got asked this morning If I'd seen something horrible And I was like no I I just like sometimes I need a day where I don't look at the news. But then because I'm such a communicator of the news to people, I get yelled at if I haven't communicated about the most reason. And I'm like, I don't know what to tell you guys.

I'm just one person and sometimes I got to turn off. Yeah, but I got to tell you, I took all of the American news channels off of my TV. Yeah. And I only watch Irish and English now. Yeah. And sometimes watch Al Jazeera just to see what's happening over there. Yeah. And I have so much calmer for. it. I can't tell you the difference that it makes in my mental health and my happiness level. You know, my ability to experience joy still. Because it's very, very hard to experience joy when you're in the thick of the Epstein Library. Yes. When you're in the thick of that young boy that was left on the island by friends. it's so awful

that you can't believe what the Supreme Court is doing and doing boldly in front of everyone and is he going to let us have elections that's my big question is he going to let us or is he going to

make some sort of tragic event occur and then declare that it's too dangerous and this is a time of war and we can't all vote right so you know I think it's scary yeah

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Open the free I-H-H-Ram. radio app search video podcasts and tap watch part of the practice for me because i can really get sucked under with it all you know and then i'm not sleeping and then it's like two o'clock and i haven't eaten anything and i'm just like oh this is not a good i'm not treating my body kindly like i would never treat my kid this way what am i doing and i think about it and i i come back a lot there's a a poem I love by a poet Jack Gilbert and he it's called a brief for the defense after after our show I'm going to send it to you um but the the sort of thesis of it and he talks about how no matter what like you could essentially be having the most glorious day and then you look over there and somebody's

suffering in the most hideous way and and the the thesis of the point when he of the poem when he really drills it down is there's all sorts of things we can't live without even hope sometimes, but we cannot survive without delight. Like the human spirit has to have delight. And so when you claim it, you keep it alive for everyone else who can't touch it in the moment. And it's kind of my reminder, you know, if I've spent all day calling representatives or on 46 Zooms and then raging about a thing and I'm writing an op-ed, I go, I got to like get outside and listen to the kids laugh.

Exactly. Because I have to remember what I'm fighting for. Like I have to have that. Exactly. You have to do it. And, you know, and that's what I'm,

you know, I'm fighting for peace of mind. Mm-hmm. And my own mental health. And I know enough to take it seriously. Some people don't survive. People I know in life,

you know. Yep. have lost family members and loved ones and, you know, nobody gets out of this unscathed, right? Yeah. Well, but I hear delight, even when you talk about the show, when you talk about going to host Jimmy Kimball, like, you're going to go laugh. My grandbaby, I have pure delight being here on the Jersey Shore, even though there was a horrible storm last night. And the lightning hit so close to the house that the fine. alarm went off and kept saying fire fire every time the alarm went off and screamed fire fire

which was not good for anyone i don't think wow but there was no fire not wood kahanah i'm i'll knock on my wood too thank god you know it's my favorite question to ask everybody but i'm really curious for you because you everyone's holding their world but you're a person who holds really like you hold your arms outstretched wide for a lot of people and a lot of experiences you know you're in this season

this re-famous as your kids say like a reinvention of a moving a reclamation all these things for you what feels like your work and probably right now. You know, my work in progress is to maintain my equilibrium. I don't think I'm at my best when I am raging. And that's why, you know, the view for me was very difficult. Because there were things that were enraging. By the way the show was run and the subjects that we were often asked to talk about that I thought, you know, this is demeaning to women or, you know, whatever the issues

were that is not the best use of my time or talent. You know, and I know that. And I took a while to learn that. And so, you know, my philanthropy can't interrupt my ability to find the delight in life and in, and that means you have to participate. You have to participate, you know. I used to smoke pot before I went to Ireland because it's illegal there. And a year and a half, I haven't smoked any pot. Right.

And I feel a little bit clearer, to tell you the truth. I feel more present, obviously, in my life. And less forgetful, less taken out of something, you know. And if you would have told me a year and a half or two years ago, oh, you're going to go there and you're going to quit pot and you're going to feel better, I would have said, no freaking way. No way. And I'm not advocating it for anyone besides someone who thinks they'd like to participate more in their own life and spend less time trying to quell the 12 monkeys in your brain.

Right. But I think what I'm hearing you say is you're really open to possibilities you didn't see coming. Totally. And that feels like a really cool place to be. Yeah. And I feel like what you're supposed to, what's supposed to happen will happen. And I'm at peace with that, you know? I'm like, they're like, what do you want to do after Jimmy Kimmel?

I just want to do my best. I just want to, you know, be as good as I can be and be joyful and be happy and know that some of those people who believed in him are good people and they were led astray. And we have to lay our arms open for them too. We all have been there. and this is liberty and justice for all. Still. I also think

when you've gone full circle through the emotions of it, I understand the anger is righteous. I'm angry all the time. I think when you're frustrated, people haven't been listening. Great, but you can't stay in the frustration or the anger.

The whole point of knowing better is also doing better. And so if we can do better, if we've known better, we have to be willing to say, oh, you're ready to do better, then come do it with us. Because the other part of it is like, well, we're going to cut off our nose despite our face. No, we're not, we're not freeing the insurrectionists. No, we're not. We're not saying, you know, every crime that you've ever committed is forgiven

over your newfound understanding of who this man. is. But I do think there has to be, you know, that roomy quote, right? In the field, be next to right and wrong. There's a field. I'll go. I'll meet you there. Yeah. Right. So that's what I'm what I'm hoping for. That's what I'm trying to manifest. That's what I'm, you know. And knowing like, listen, Jimmy asked me to do this. It's quite an honor. I'm going to do it, you know. I love that for you. And I'm going to try. try my best, you know, and have fun. That's so cool.

Enjoy it, you know. Enjoy it. Yeah. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.