Drama Queens - Shawn Johnson East & Andrew East

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Despite Olympic gold, NFL dreams, and a life that looked perfect from the outside, Shawn Johnson East and Andrew East faced identity crises, hard pivots, and unexpected lessons that came after the applause faded. They open up about marriage, parenthood, and why chasing achievement isn’t the same thing as finding joy. And Shawn shares the surprising reason some of her happiest moments had nothing to do with winning a medal."Courage to Commit: Embrace the Radical Power of Sticking with Something" is in bookstores now.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. I am so excited today to sit down with a couple that I, frankly, adore. I have such a good time watching them live out their extraordinary dreams. And my goodness, they have been doing that for quite a time.

Today we're sitting down with Sean Johnson and Andrew East. You know Sean from winning Olympic gold and Andrew from competing at the very highest level of professional football in the NFL. But what inspires me about the two of them is that their defining moments weren't just back on the balance beam or out on the football field. They took place in their quiet daily routines. They've taken place in the life they have found beyond sport. in the marriage they've built between themselves, in the family that they have with their three children. And they really have come to share with the world what they know and what we can all do on

ordinary days that can be just as meaningful as once in a lifetime milestones. The way they've built their life beyond sport, growing a digital platform, navigating a long distance relationship and career pivots and all the rest of it in real time is something that I love to observe and I know I'm not alone because everyone always asks them what their secret is to their joyful partnership and the way that they live their life. What I appreciate about Sean and Andrew is that they're the first to admit that it takes a lot of work to make it look as effortless as it seems. And now they are putting all of that work down on the page. in their new book, Courage to Commit, which is out now.

Let's talk all about it with Sean Johnson and Andrew East. Sean, Andrew, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today. How are you both? Great. Thank you so much for having us. We're honored to be here. Well, I'm so happy you're here. And congrats on all the exciting updates and big news in the family.

Thank you. Thank you. Also, don't mind my husband who's dripping sweat. I am sweating. I was like, you're boring. He just biked our kids to school and then like beelined it here. I love that. I need degrees here in Nashville.

Yeah. So still sweating. Oh my goodness. How do you bike them all? Are they big enough to ride bikes or is this like a toe situation? Okay. So my dad wrote us to school when we were young. We had a tandem bike and we would do like time trials with me and my other brothers.

You can ride the fastest. But now we have to set up. It's a radio flyer bike. So they have like a little bench seat on the back. And it's electric. Like a ticket that they sit in. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's pretty fun. And he takes a speaker with them and they're like blasting music. That is so cute. Yeah. Okay. I want to hear more about both of your childhoods. Sean, I know you grew up in Iowa. Andrew, I know you grew up in Indiana.

What were you guys up to when you were little kids when you were eight or nine? Honestly, I had a very normal childhood. It sounds crazy to say because I was so young when I competed. But around like 8 and 9, I went to public school. I did after school play dates with all of my friends. I lived on a cul-de-sac, and it was kind of just an Iowa Midwest thing. But everybody in the neighborhood would always have their garage doors open, and their garage doors were like an extension of their house living situation.

So every garage had like a TV and a couch. Sounds very strange. But all the parents would always sit in their garages and all the kids would just run wild through the neighborhood. So I spent all my time just like playing in our cul-de-sac and truly just being a kid. Outside of, I did probably three or four days a week of gymnastics training. But that was just like my after-school activity that I did. Like, you know, people would run track or do something else. Yeah.

How old were you when you started? I started when I was three. You were three. Just like any other little kid would, though. Like I did mommy and me classes, like recreational classes. It was never anything serious until I made the USA National Team at 12. So that feels a little abnormal. But it felt very normal to me. My parents worked really hard to have a very balanced upbringing that I was very grateful for. And did you start playing sports really young too? So yeah, while Sean was an only child, I was a middle of five kids and all of us did all the sports. My parents had us in basketball, baseball, football, swimming, all this stuff. And we would do it together, which was really fun. We did Boy Scouts growing up and we'd take camping trips and go climb mountains. But we just did a bunch of group activities and a bunch of family activities. It was so

fun. I feel like, you know, still to this day, my brothers and I have like this healthy sense of competition. We like to do everything together. We like to see what the other's up to, learn from each other. And yeah, it was a rowdy household, but it's fun. Still, us. Yeah. I'm like one of five feels like it does something that never quite goes away, right? Never does. We have 11, 11 or 12 now. Well, 11 grandchildren, not us, but like our children's generation. Yeah. There's 11 of them under the age of eight. And If it's not chaos with you and your siblings, it's now chaos with all of like the cousins. It's so much fun.

That is so cool. I'm curious. It's interesting to hear you say, Sean, that the switch really came, you know, going into being around 12. Like, I know nothing about this to be clear, you guys. Like, I grew up playing sports, but also very clearly, I'm like, I'm not. tall enough to play any of the sports I really liked. I'm not petite enough to have ever been a gymnast. I have terrible asthma. It just was like not in the cards for me. But it's crazy, you know, to love someone who's done some of what you've done. Like it's hard for me to wrap my head around

what it really means to go to the Olympics and then you went like literally in the most impressive way in the world. But when you get recruited so young, you know, like my partner was playing up on the U-15 team by the time she was 12. And it's like there's so much, I think that is incredible about that, incredible about discipline and the ways that you learn these unbelievable skills. And it's sort of insane to think about the level you were competing at, the number of people you were competing in front of the pressure. Did it dawn on you then or did it just still feel fun at 12? It honestly still felt fun. I was very, very blessed to have a coach who he put an emphasis on the fun the whole time. I feel like the only time it wasn't fun was when I was with a national team

and it became very serious. But he really tried to like balance those skills. scales my whole career, which I was very grateful for. But for me, kind of like anybody would do a hobby or a sport as a child, whether you're singing or, you know, playing by Lynn or whatever it was. I just kind of went through the natural progression. I wasn't skipping levels. I wasn't like exponentially better. I was just kind of going through the system at a pretty steady pace. and by the time I kind of came up for air and looked around, I was like, oh, I happened to be in the highest level. You know, it didn't ever feel like pressure or like a job until I was in the national team setting where they weren't as much about fun. They were more about your job.

Yeah, I've heard that. So, yeah, so I was like balancing that by the time I got to the professional. professional level, but I truly was surrounded by people who wanted me to be a kid for the most part. And I was just playing. I remember playing at the Olympics. Wow. Truly. Wow. That's such a trip. And what an interesting thing, too, in this phase of, you know, everybody having young kids, right? You realize that the way you speak to them, the container you create for them is the one they will experience. Like,

even at this upper echelon of sport, you felt like you were playing. And it's because the adults in the room made sure to protect that for you. That's where the pressure sets in already as a parent. Because I'm like, that's now our job. We had the pleasure of interviewing my parents not too long ago about their strategy and how they went about it. And they basically said that. They said our job was to protect you the whole time and to make sure you were a kid.

And it was appropriate. and it was, you know, not too mature and not too much pressure. And that got harder as I got farther along. But it is hard now as parents to say, that is our job. And it's hard to now witness it with our own children when they start putting pressure on themselves for little things. It's like, how do I protect the innocence of your joy? It's so interesting now.

Our daughter does ice skating and she loved it. And like just the amount of conversations that start happening when there's like, oh, hey, we're going to put you in the accelerated program. And it's part of that. You're going to have to do off ice training. And the off ice training for you as a five year old is going to be cone drills and pushups and all this stuff. And then like you get one step into this and you understand, oh my gosh, wait, all she wants

to do is ice skate. Yeah. You know, like that's all she wants to do. She doesn't care about the accelerated program. And so kudos to Sean's parents, honestly, for like understanding that, despite, by conversations of agents or sponsors or whatever, like they kind of just did insulate Sean. It seemed really well from all of those kind of extra curriculars or the, you know, the nonsense besides gymnastics.

Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, it's crazy to think that five or six-year-olds have somebody analyzing, you know, their squat thrust so they can get a better vertical. You're like, they are babies. Yeah. Like, they're good. I don't know if you've experienced this yeah but like

standing on the sidelines of like a three-year-old soccer game to hear some of the conversations it makes me want to run through a brick wall I'm like you need to calm down this is your child's like hobby it's not yours and it's just it's wild to me

yeah I heard a friend of mine my godson's already in soccer and he is so sweet. And like, oh my goodness, every once in a while, you know, you have that moment where you're like, run the other way. That's the other team. And he thinks it's like so cool that is,

that, you know, his godmother's gal. He's always like, Auntie Ash, Auntie Ash, give me tips. And she's like, baby boy. I have to like be in person with you to put you through some drills, you know. And it's like, I can't imagine being, you know, watching my best. friend as his mom or being a family figure in his life, like not laughing at that, taking that so

seriously. And I don't know, you're right. Sometimes I go to his practices and I hear the way parents are talking. And I have to bite my tongue because like, you know, again, not the athlete. I really went into the academics. Part of me wants to be like, do you know the statistical probability of your kid making it like to a D1 college, let alone the pros? It's essentially zero. Leave him alone. He's five. But I don't. I keep those thoughts on the end. No, please don't keep those thoughts. And you should share those. Scream those out. That's what we believe too. Yeah. It's literally lightning striking. And I don't like to like minimize people's achievements or even my own, but it truly is. It's luck. You cannot make it happen. And if you try to make it happen, I think your probability is actually

going to go even farther down. Because kids are going to like fall out. of love with it and not like it and they're probably going to get injured and they're probably going to change hobbies and it's just like the only thing that you need to do is love them and celebrate them yeah and then let the rest do it's yeah let them have fun let them score a goal for the other team it's not that serious it's fine you know yeah i'm wondering too though because you say you know the probability is so low and then the giggle is you two both reached these insane heights in your career. I mean, you want Olympic gold. Andrew, you were in the NFL. Like, what was it like for you? Because I know for girls who grow up in sport, there is the incredible side of confidence,

team building leadership. I mean, 84% of women who sit in C-sweets in the corporate world played high school or collegiate sports. And then there's also, and I'm sure we'll get to this, the really hard side of the body consciousness and all of that. And then I feel like on the flip side for guys, it's very social, communal, cool. Like, if you play football, and we've all seen Friday night lights, you know? Like, it's this sort of rare air space that seems really fun and really popular, but also, I imagine, is really tough. what was it like for you to kind of go from having a childhood hobby with your brothers to realizing

this was something else? Wow, you just sparked a lot of thoughts and how you phrased that. I mean, it kind of goes in phases a little bit and depending on like, you know, how you're performing sometimes affects how you feel about the sport, depending on the team that you're on and the guys in the locker room kind of can, you know, change that. But, uh, I did, I loved football. And that's all I wanted to do. My dad played college footballer Purdue. And I, like, I just grew up wearing his old helmet.

And I honestly loved football all the way through college. And then I started getting attention from NFL scouts. And I was like, sweet, okay. I can do this for the next 15 years of my life. And that would be a dream. Like, I was just happy to make it to college. That's all I wanted to do as a little kid was play college football. But now we have this NFL opportunity.

and then very quickly in that situation, like, I again did all the activities growing up. So I never had to focus just solely on football. And then in college, you're doing academics, you're doing sports, you have the social life, you have all the clubs and whatever. So it was not all football. But then in the pros, it was like this singular thing that consumes your entire life. And I didn't know anybody else. I started on the Kansas City Chiefs

and there I am in Kansas City, didn't know a soul. And so I'd only spend time with the football teammates. I'd only go to the facility. Wouldn't go anywhere else. And you're just kind of like ruminating on this. And then it was like,

it became almost like a really unhealthy part obsession, part like torment of like, man, I want something else to like distract me almost. So it was complicated. And I remember like, you know, at points, was super confident. I'd be dabbing everybody up in the facility. But then with certain teams in NFL, when you're just trying to make it, like, oh, man, I don't want to get cut. I hope today's

not my day to get cut. You start having these thoughts. And so I couldn't even, I went from, you know, being the guy who was joking around, so I couldn't even make eye contact because I was so, I don't know, like, nervous or anxious or uncertain. So it kind of goes, ebbs and flows. And then you kind of just kind of find that pocket of like, okay, you know what? I've done everything I can to put myself in the best position, am I going to enjoy this or not? Like I, towards the end of my career, I started realizing this is like once in a lifetime, you know, like I'm going to only be in this locker room for so many years, maybe only a few more days, who knows, but I might as well just, like, have a good time and like enjoy it. And that kind of opens up the performance side of

things too. It kind of like, it pulls you out of that rumination. So it's complicated to say the least, but I definitely learned a lot. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors. Experience. You end up how with weekend gold tickets to Lassau Montreal. Thomas Rhett. Mumford and Sons. Well, here's my pride and here's my shame.

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It's so interesting the way you put that, because I was just actually writing about this. When I was in school and I started doing theater, which I thought I would hate, I was like, I play volleyball. I don't do that. Like the theater girls, yeah, my friend does that. We're not the same. Yeah. You know, she was like a showtune singing, like adorable human, who by the way, still is. Like, you know, now we've been friends for 30 years.

But I didn't know that it was something I would love. And then that became my extracurricular, you know, started in middle school, went through high school. By my senior year, I was so serious about it. And then I went to college to get a BFA, a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Theater. And one of those things where, you know, you have to audition. It's like, it's like a team. try out. It's so scary. And they admit 14 people a year. And I got in. And I was like, oh my God, I've made it. You know, this is my next step. I'm moving through the system.

And I got into that program and I had the experience you're talking about Andrew. I feel like it made me a basket case. Because all I did was eat, breathe and sleep theater. All I did was focus on scripts. all I did was get asked every decision I'd make, like in a scene testing something out. Well, why'd you make that choice? What was the motivation here? And it's not even that the questions were bad. They could have been opening a compliment, but what it did was make me so self-conscious. And I was like, well, I don't know why I may.

I mean, it just felt, you know, and I was reacting to this person. And it sort of seemed like we could, the scenes of fight, but what if they started laughing in the middle? Like, isn't that interesting? And no matter what felt natural to me, I worried that I was doing the wrong thing. And what you illuminated for me was that once you've made it on the college team or the pro team or whatever, everyone thinks you've made it. Nobody says, hey, how are you doing? Hey, do you need any support? And what I realized I had to do my second year of college, I was like, I can't handle this.

and I transferred out of that major. I was keeping a theater minor, but I went into the journalism school, and that was the year I started booking auditions, like crazy, because I'd taken the pressure off. And then suddenly I was just like, oh, this is fun. Like, this is my gymnastics. This is the thing I like to do after school,

and I'm actually kind of good at this. Okay. And weirdly, it shifted something. in me. It wasn't something anyone else was doing. But when it's too pressurized, the thing you love can torment you. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. It's so surreal. I feel like you see that in everything, that was like if you take the joy away from it and you lose the reason why you started it in the first place. Yeah. And you're like forcing it for a different reason, whether it's success or money or whatever. Like you lose everything. If you can't just like have joy with it, then

it's just a whole different ballgame. Yeah. How do you feel like you both chose to prioritize that? Because I think about, I don't know, rewind to like 2012 before maybe the world was also so insane. And you're both navigating these crazy high pressure careers. And I know, you know, you've written about how success alone wasn't going to provide lasting fulfillment. Like there had to be more. If you think about back then in the height of things, how did you start to consider what your wider vision was for your futures? These are great questions. Thanks. Well, I'm curious what your perspective on this is. I feel

like the deeper you get into anything, like the longer your career is, you know, and sports is kind of unique because it's so intense and so consuming and so kind of idolized as is your industry. But it's like the transition out of that is super hard. And I think John struggled with it, you know, kind of by choice she retired and then she struggled probably for like three or four years when we were dating. And then I struggled with it by force. You know, I was bouncing around from team to team and man, if I, if I would have had a long and steady job, I probably would I kept it, but instead it kind of like made me think about other things while I was still getting opportunities in the NFL. And so I was like, oh, I should probably start assembling other

parts of my life. But it's like, it's a really uncomfortable process because when you're in the moment, you don't, like I did not feel like I had any other translating skills from football that would apply anywhere else. Like everyone says, sports is so good to teach all these, all these things. And I see it now. You were also an academic. I mean, let's acknowledge that. Yeah. And I guess, you know, if I would have stopped for a second, I would have realized that there was other things.

But I did not feel like I had anything else I could offer the world except for my, you know, my football skills. And now I see that there's so many things I learned from sports. But I had to start learning, you know, I'm going to, I love video editing. Let me learn this software. And actually, the cameras are pretty cool too. so let me learn the hardware side of it. And then now we start a YouTube channel and oh my gosh, I love this.

And you start to like slowly kindle this other side of you, which like to your point took the pressure off of that old passion I had of football. And then both were in a better spot as a result. I will say though, I think a huge gift we are both given was the experience of getting to the very top and not feeling fulfilled. Mm-hmm. And I think our world likes to paint this picture of if only you have X, Y, and Z, more money, a title.

If you climb the top to the top of the ladder, you will be happy. You will feel fulfilled. That'll be the greatest thing in your life. Yeah. And though winning a medal at the Olympics is absolutely incredible, it did not fulfill me. I had more joy training in my gym for 16 years than I did at the Olympic competition. It was very cool, but it wasn't, you know, the most fulfilling part of my life. And I think Andrew was the same way.

He had so much fun in college. And then when he got to the NFL and he looked around and was like, I don't know if this is what it's all talked up to me. Like, this isn't fun. I'm not loving this. it made us have a humility when we transitioned out, though difficult, to say, let's kind of get rid of what the world is telling us we should go do now and actually go find something that is fun to us and humble ourselves enough to start over and be completely horrible at something, but truly fall in love with something again

and learn and build, which is what we love to do. And so we started over and it took us a while to find our niche and what we liked and what we loved and what we fell in love with, but I think it was the gift of athletics and learning that the hard way that gave us the gift of where we are today. You know, when you say you think it's going to fulfill you,

it's such a universal thing. You know, you get to the Olympics, you get to the NFL, you get on the show, you do the movie you've always wanted to do, you know, whatever it may be, And then you're still just sleeping in your bed at night. Yeah.

Like, got to go to the grocery store. Yeah. And I'm curious, actually. I'm not sure if I think this is what it is, but I wonder if part of it is the way things are covered. You know, the story, the news package on the Summer Olympics or, you know, the Blockbuster hit for Christmas or whatever it is. You watch that stuff and you go, wow, look at what those people are doing. And it's beautiful, and it is. But it kind of looks like, to your point, the big moment, the big achievement.

And then you think, oh, when I have that, I will feel fill in the blank. And then you get whatever your version is. And you're like, oh, this is super weird. Nobody told me I'd still be anxious. And I'd still be like in a fight with my mom or whatever's going on in your world. You're like, this didn't fix me? Huh? Yeah.

So it's like, and I think the transition out of something, you know, I remember what it felt like, you know, to end nine seasons, 10 years on a TV show, like almost no actors get to do that. And I remember being so surprised because we had all been so ready to be done. We were like, this has been great, but we've literally been locked up like in these four soundstages since we were 21 and now. we're 30. Like, talk about, you know, what you were saying. You leave your life. You move somewhere. You know no one. You're only insulated with your little group. And like, sure, that's great, but also it's insane. And I remember leaving and being like, oh, this is so weird. I can't stop crying. I didn't think I was sad about this. And I realized it was both. Like, I was so happy to go home and I was going to miss the place that had been my home for a decade. And I think the the intensity

of sport and also the truncated amount of years you get to do it. Like you are a phenom and a freak if you make it to 38 or 40 and you know playing a sport, right? And and so you kind of have to start over but you're starting over so young. Do you think meeting each other helps? you both figure out how to shift out of one world and into another one? Absolutely. So my timeline was I retired technically my first time after the 2008 Olympics. I was 16 years old. And that was the absolute hardest transition for me.

Because for three years from the age of 16 to 19, I had to go finish high school. Oh. Right after the Olympics. Oh my God. I had to go back to high school. I had the world telling me I was on the top of the world. And they expected such perfection in any field, but I was also just a child. And I didn't, I needed to figure out where I was going to go to college and what I was going to do and what job I was going to go get.

And that was really hard for me. So hard that I ended up going back into gymnastics because I felt like that was my safe zone. I didn't necessarily want to. But in my mind, that's all I could kind of compute to be. I totally get that. So I went back into gymnastics, retired a second time at 19. And then that's when we were introduced at 20, right when I was coming out of my second go-round. And it 100% was the reason I made it through that transition.

I remember putting such pressure on myself to be a perfectionist. And there's this interesting thing, which I'm sure you've experienced too, where people don't care about you. They care about your character. They care about what they see in the headlines, and that's all they want to know about. And I remember Andrew, it was like the first time I had met someone who actually cared about me as a human. And it was very, it took me off guard because I was like, what do you mean you want to know what I eat for breakfast, like as a human and not gymnast? And don't you want to know about the Olympics. And he's like, I don't care about that.

I want to know you. And so he kind of got to hold my hand and walk me through that. And then once I kind of got my feet under me and wait. had been dating and then married and he retired from the NFL, it was almost like I could return the favor. I could hold his hand through it and say, you got me through mine. Now let me be your anchor and let's walk through this together. But I think it just gives you that emotional support that you need when it seems like everything is up in the air to give you a foundation to lean back on. Yes, I know that feeling. It's also crazy. I mean, the echo chamber that can happen in your own brain of like, I don't

know, just the stories you can start telling yourself that just amplify and you're like, to have someone else there who's like, whoa, just hold on a second. That's not the way I see it, nor is it reality. And so it just chill out for a second is really interesting. My favorite story, though it was a low point. So I say this humorously now because we've gotten through it. But my favorite point was Andrew was kind of going through his exit of the NFL and having like an identity crisis where it's like what. am I to the world and what am I to myself now. And you have a civil engineering undergrad degree from Vanderbilt. You have an MBA from Vanderbilt. Graduated with honors, all these things. And he signed

up to be an Uber driver. And he's like, well, this is all I have to give the world anymore. I would still do it. I know you would still do it. And you'd be great. And an Uber driver is a wonderful job. But it was just, I was sitting there as his wife. And I was like, okay, this is Okay. We're going to, you know, you can be an Uber driver if you would like if that fulfills you. But just now that's not all you have. Yeah. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. An IR Radio Experience.

Weekend gold tickets to Ilson Inc. One, two, three. In Montreal with Dom Dalla, Chris Lake and Friends, Woolly, Deadmouse, Above and Beyond, subfocus, and more with flights from Porter Airlines, three nights at residence in downtown Montreal and $1,000 cash. Enter for your chance to win at iHeartRadio.ca. Ilsonique in Montreal, every day you enter is another chance to win. It's kind of arresting, though.

Yeah. When you have anything that happens to you that feels, you know, like an explosion, like everything's been sort of flattened, finding your way out of that is hard. And I think in whatever way that happens, like, it can really be the thing that saves you or illuminates something for you or to your point, quiets those voices.

And I think there's an added layer, again, that you're not supposed to talk about if you've made it because you should just be grateful and shut up. But there is the added pressure of, an entire digital world talking about you. Yeah. And criticizing you and judging you and assuming they know things about you

and it can break you. And I think having someone else with you who knows what that is is also such a, it can offer you so much salvation because you do have someone to say, I know that's not true about you. I know this is crazy. And so I'd imagine that you have, like having that version in your own home where you get to

be like, hey, remember who you are. Remember what is true about you. Remember how great you are, qualified you are, talented you are. And if you need a break to like have a M&B and drive around downtown, that's also okay. I love you. Like that's, that's a game changer because it helps stop you from getting swathing. followed by a machine that is so much bigger than any one person. We interviewed someone who, and it has just always stayed with me years ago, who said,

like, the human heart was not meant to digest all these voices that we have access to anymore. And I remember him speaking on make sure the voices that you truly let in are trusted and small, like a small circle. And I feel like we try really hard to do that. We were both having mental breakdowns last week. I was like, I need you to speak truth into me and you to speak truth in back and back. And it's just, it is. There's so, it's, the world is so loud now.

Yeah. And it's really hard to turn it off. Yeah. And you have to be so conscious about who has the most volume. And I think we all struggle with this. It's an ebb and flow of, well, Instagram voices. got a little too loud for me today and I'm about to go lock myself in a room. And I need someone to truly just like tell me what which ways up.

And yeah, it's interesting because it goes both ways. You know, and we write in our book about mentorship and like having someone who is a trusted voice who is like a little further down the path than you are wherever you want to be in life. Like, hey, this is the type of family life I want to have. Like, and that's this person is my role model in that because they have. have, you know, whatever kids or the family that you kind of envision wanting. And it's like, you know, it's almost, you can find any opinion you want online. And it's like seeking you will find.

You know, if I want someone to hype me up, I can go find someone and like go, like, yeah, this person thinks I'm awesome. And that's, that can almost be equally as unhealthy as someone finding the voice of, dang, I am a trash football player. I am, I lost that game. And you can like be unhealthy on both sides where you don't necessarily just want yes men in your life. You don't just want people who are cynics and skeptics. It's like you want someone who's lovingly honest.

And it's like, Andrew, I think it's probably time that like you consider other things in football. And here's why I've known you for 20 years. I've seen your career. I've been a part of all these conversations and you've told me about what coaches are saying, their feedback and the scouts aren't calling as much. And like that is such a different thing than like Andrew, the tweet that you get online, Andrew never plays football ever again. You know, like you're terrible.

Like that just doesn't hit the same as someone who actually intimately knows the situation. So I think it's like finding that fine balance of loving honesty. Yeah. It's like you have to you have to figure out how to build your own filter out of that huge funnel that we were not meant to ever know. And that's, I think that's kind of a task for our peer group as well. Like nobody wrote the handbook for this before us because it didn't exist. And so we kind of have to figure it out together.

And I think when you are with, you know, your right person and you have a good mirror and then you have more of those good mirrors in your extended circle, your family, your friendships, like that's what helps you start to do that. And I imagine, because I know you guys celebrate 10 years of marriage this year, congrats. Thanks. You know, being married for a decade, having three kids. Like, you've really been through it enough to have, I would think,

kind of like a routine for how you do things. How do you feel like parenthood maybe made you even better at that stuff? because it can be hard to be nice to yourself, but you want to be nice to your, you want to be the nicest person in the world for your kids, you know? Yeah. I feel like your spouse partner, I mean, is like the best first mirror relationship that you get

where it can be very humbling when you have someone so trusted be like, you're not being very nice right now. And it's like, I think you're probably, you're a mirror, So you're probably, I should probably listen to that, you know. And so I think with us having, we were married, how many years before, two, three, four, three.

Three. Having been married three years before we had our first kid, that was, you know, an Evan Flood that you really have to get used to and have to. You have to find trust there and humility. But then you take it up and not for the child because you want to give them the world. You want to be the best version of yourself. Yeah. And it is so difficult being a parent. It's so beautiful, and I don't mean that in a bad way of being difficult.

It's just difficult. Raising humans is not easy. And to see their reflection of you is so pure. And there's no judgment and there's no, like, there's no jadedness to them yet. So anything that they say to you, like, mommy. Are you having a hard day? It's kind of like, oh, wow, I need, why do you think that? Like, what am I doing?

And it's, it's just made you, it's made us way more selfless and way more self-reflective of what our values are and what we spend time doing and how we are reflecting that to our children and what we're teaching them. And they already have so many voices. And we are the loudest ones, thankfully, right now. Yeah. but trying to teach them their filters already for life is, is terrifying.

And we have to make sure we have hours figured out, which we don't are getting better at it. It's just, it's a very humbling experience. I think it's also so interesting because you get to kind of relive your own childhood in ways and go, oh, I have a wound there. Or, oh, my God, I was made for this moment. Like, this is my area of expertise. and it's so beautiful because you learn all this stuff.

I don't think you'd learn otherwise if you didn't have that little person who is this pure thing mirroring at you. And to just go back to the beginning of your point, yes, it is the most gorgeous thing and it is so hard. And my friends and I are like any like mom fluencer dad. influencer who just makes it look easy. You're a traitor. You're a traitor. You're a liar. We have got to be able to say this is an absolute miracle.

And also, like, what are you doing to get through this crazy phase or this, you know, struggle development moment? And I think the more we get to normalize that stuff, the better for all the parents out there. So both and. I think there's something so beautiful about and pure about children and our world that's so just crazy right now. It seems like we can all agree we want to raise good humans and we want to protect the pureness and children. So I feel like kind of like you were saying, it's like all the chaos quiets when you have a child around because you're like, I want to protect you and I want to love you and I want to do my best. And so all of us parents coming together being like, how do we do this? Yeah.

We all want the best for kids. Yeah. Well, I think most of us, I think it's been a pretty rough time in the world to realize not everybody does. Yeah. But my hope actually is that the amount of us who, like, as we spoke about earlier, would literally run into moving traffic for our children. Yeah. I hope we quiet all the other noise and simply focus. on how we're going to reorganize the world for them

because there are some people who don't have that as their core value. And like those are people I wish I could pack into a cannon and shoot out into space. I'm like, you should be voted off the island and I mean the island of Earth. Absolutely. The last couple of years have sort of broken my faith in humanity

and also made me be like, if the moms were in charge, this shit would be fixed by lunch. Yeah. You know? They would live on Mars. They would just live on Mars. Exactly. Exactly. I am enjoying this conversation with Sean and Andrew so much, and I hope you are as well.

Tune back in for the next special bonus episode where we dive into all the specifics of their incredible new book, Courage to Commit. See you soon. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.