Drama Queens - Stuck in a Moment ᐧ EP517

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

The girls unpack how the characters seem to be trapped by their trauma. Hilarie reveals a difficult scene from the show that played out for her in real life. Plus, frustrations surface along with details of on-screen chemistry.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Joy, this was a huge episode. You think so? I thought I was exhausted. You know, I had to stop this episode multiple times because my best friend made me lunch and I was just really absorbed in eating this chili. And I was like, I'm not paying attention here. Like, I felt like I was on a fucking journey. Yeah. There was a lot.

It was a lot. I think here's what my problem was with this episode. All the pieces were there. I felt like, yeah. It was the biggest episode. There was a lot that happened. But all the pieces felt super disjointed to me. Like, I don't know why Brooks' journey with baby Angie ended in, like, Act 1.

Yeah. She's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that should have been part of the big cliffhanger at the ending or something. You know, the relief at the ending. The Peyton Lucas thing, I thought, played out pretty well. But also, the basketball stuff didn't start until, like, Act 3. So it was just strange.

I felt like I kind of wish everything had been going on at the same time. it would have felt like it balanced it out a little bit more to me. So, I don't know. My notes say this ep is so melodramatic. Maybe that's why I needed to take a chilly break. I was like, I just, sorry guys. I got a dip for a second.

I'm also like, I think I'm just on the edge of my seat now waiting for the dog in the heart because now that we've entered heart transplant territory every time I see Dan and there and he's in the hospital. I'm like, it's happening. It's happening now, now. Same. Like, I thought for sure when Brooke,

and Lucas were sitting in the hospital. I was like, is it out? Is it out? Oh, God, we're going to get to the... No, it's not. Not yet. That's shit. They're going to draw out forever. But all of this took place over the course of 18 hours. Yeah. Which is, you know, they announced that at the beginning. And it's just, I love that it's a montage of everyone behaving badly.

Yeah. And the freeze frame... Look how awful we all are. Yeah. I know. So strange. The really good one was Deb in front of the computer. Like that really, that was a really good teaser. Yeah, because, okay, so here's the thing that just keeps creeping up into my brain space when we watch specifically Deb, not so much Moira, you know, like Karen always seemed like an adult and I don't feel like an adult.

But when I watched Deb, she was supposed to have Nathan at 18 years old that these kids are 22 now, and so Deb, in this narrative, is younger than we are. Wait, what? She's 40. I know. You just blew my mind. And it's like, did we show our titties to people at 40? Yeah.

My husband saw my boobs all the time. Yeah. Definitely people saw my boobs when I was 40. Wow. So it just changes the perspective. in a way that I think is hard to swallow, but also, like, good on her for not falling into, like, stereotypical mom zone.

Yeah. I mean, that is something I really love about Deb. If we're going to, like, yeah, let's start with them. Like, that's something I really love about Deb. Is she, she's always been very self-aware and willing to take risks, even when she was, you know, going through her really rough patch and she was in rehab and all the, you know, trying to experiment with painkillers and all this stuff. And Barbara's just such an amazing actress. But I do feel like Deb has a consistent streak where she's always walking that fine line.

Like she wants to be wild and still be responsible, but she's willing to push it and push the limits, which I admire. I think that's pretty cool. Hey, we were so excited about Deb's boobs that we forgot to read the synopsis joy. Oh, my God. Our producer just came into the chat and was like, you guys, grow up. Barbara's boobs! I can't think about anything else with a chapstick. Barber's boobs.

Now I know that there's chapstick in there all the time. Oh, genius. Okay, go ahead, read the synopsis. What does it say? Listen, season five, episode 17, hate is safer than love. Air date was May 12th, 2008. All right, so Lucas is crushed by the news that Lindsay is dating someone else, and he takes his anger out in the wrong way. Does he ever?

Brooks Baby Angie. Is it Brooks Baby? Foster Baby. Yeah. She undergoes emergency surgery. Haley wrestles with her decision to record a new album. I really am interested in that storyline. Nathan is trying to get back into basketball shape.

Antoine meets up with a woman. He met on the internet. And Lucas stuns pain with a hateful confession. God, this episode had it all, even as disjointed as it was. It was packed. Okay, so let's go back to Barb. Now we got our business out of the way. Yes, there is a playfulness there.

And one of the things that I think is a theme in this episode is that notion of psychology where it's like everyone goes through trauma or like a big life-changing event at a certain age. and then you're kind of stuck at that age forever. And the things that stood out to me here was that Barbara will always be 18 years old because that's the year that she got accidentally pregnant. Great. I say Barbara.

I mean, Deb. Deb is always going to be 18 years old. Just that co-ed, frisky little animal. Yeah, because she tried. Like, you can see how hard she tried in the first few seasons, how hard she tried to be the responsible southern, mother, what everybody expected her to be, the perfect soccer mom or basketball mom in this case. But yes, you nailed it. And Lucas is always going to be a 16-year-old boy because the faces

he makes when he's going through this Lindsay journey, just like the heartbreak and the hope and though she can't do this. Total 16-year-old boy. We've watched him do it for multiple seasons now. Yeah. But then the real twist for me was Dan Scott in this episode who got down on Jamie's level and was a four or five year old little kid that didn't get the hugs he needed and throws really awful temper tantrums and has never evolved past that point and it's just yeah everybody's trapped at a certain age he's and that's why he's so desperate for everyone's approval all the time thinks he can get away with stuff yeah a lot of magical thinking with Dan Scott like with children where it's like I can make this disappear mm-hmm absolutely

Absolutely. And that's why probably why he gets on with Jamie so well too. And Jamie senses that camaraderie because I would never think of Dan Scott as playful or like great with kids. And yet there is that part of him that is, that's actually where he's arrested. That's so interesting. Paul lights up when he's with that kid. He really does. I was going to say Lucas. Well, what was interesting about what you said about Lucas is I really felt that in. I felt that in the moment when he took the call from Lindsay at halftime. Girl. Like that really, I was like, what grown man does not know to like, there's got, don't, you don't take that call in the middle of a game? There's no way you pick up that phone. I know you're waiting for her, but like if it's bad news,

you got to know that. Not worth it. um here was my thinking as like you know having played the woman who loved him and would have done anything for him um what a bitch move right like she's been with him for years she knows what his basketball schedule is i thought the same thing too she knows it's like Friday night it's like seven-ish yeah she knows he's in a game she was hoping he didn't have his phone in front of him and that he wouldn't answer she was trying to leave a voice yeah that's good That's good. That's good. Yeah. It's like the person that's like, I left the message at 6.30 in the morning. I, you know.

Right. When you were sleeping. I didn't think she was trying to leave a message, although I do think you're right about that now. But I did think it was strange that she went ahead and told him in the middle of the game that he, and he told her, like, we're at halftime in the middle of the game. Like, why doesn't she just go, yay, listen, I'm going to call you right back. I'll call you back. Let me get back to you. Call me when you're done. Oh, God. It was a dick. move. I didn't like it. Well, and I, it makes you wonder, you know, like we, we like to be graceful about the age of these characters. Like, we have criticized Lucas, we've criticized Nathan,

we've criticized our own characters, and then, like, with the disclaimer, they're 22 years old. They're awful. I was awful at 22 years old. And Lindsay is also, like, 22 years old. Maybe she's just so sick of being toyed with, that she had a dirty martini and was like, I'm going to call him. I'm just going to call him and tell him.

Right in the middle of the game. Yeah, that was rough. Well, before that happened, I really liked seeing Lucas really in his element. I know he's a writer and that's the whole story. But I can't say, like I really love him as a basketball coach. I feel like he is so hits his stride. He's so great with the players. I mean, obviously he has some learning to do.

but I thought that was really fun to see because I don't know that I've seen we've seen little moments of it but we haven't watched it for that long. That was like a good stretch. I felt like there was about 10 minutes of just basketball. I put huge exclamation marks on here back to basketball. I loved that we were back in the game. And one of my favorite moments of this whole episode is when the other coach and Lucas are kind of like talking shit to each other. And now that my kid is older and I'm going to see games and stuff, there is a playfulness to like kids' coaches where they're having just as much fun as the kids. Yeah, getting spicy. And I really, really loved that he, the other coach was like,

y'all are going to get tired. You can't keep this up. And then Lucas says, subs. And normally it's like one or two. Yeah. But Lucas replaces like the entire team. Whole team. And the guy goes, what is this hockey? And I loved it. I just, I love that notion that you don't have to play the game like you're expected

to and you can be really creative with it and stay within the rules. But I love that too. I want to see more of that. Yeah. But poor, poor Quentin, just huffing and puffing and like rushing through. man they turned that up to 11 11 like Lucas got that phone call from Lindsay all of a sudden he was Joan Collins like no more hangars yeah those more children were like no more coach Scott no more oh man and why didn't Nathan jump in and and why didn't skills I mean they tried but it was such a half-assed effort and I feel like as it as co- coaches. I mean, Luke isn't the coach, right? Isn't he a co-coach with skills? All I know is that I loved it so much because he goes, he goes, all right, they all say, Ravens on three and he says,

no, Bear Creek sucks. He makes the children yell, Bear Creek sucks. That is so sad. That is not Lucas Scott. We need to defend him. No. And then what the hell other coach is, who are these Bear Creek people where the coach is like, yeah, break that kid's arm. What the hell kind of a high school game? You're going to ruin somebody's entire future for, because you're down? I don't know. Is that real? Has that happened a lot? And I just don't know about it. I don't know a lot about high school sports, I guess. I do, I think that there's always like that asshole coach, like I've seen them. Because I went to a really, really, really competitive sports high school and I think that there were certain players on our team that other teams

you would see them like go for them really target them and I'm sure we did the same thing to other schools you know but it's never the head coach the head coach is always this figurehead that's like wholesome and above reproach it's always like like the offensive coach you know or, like, the person that specializes in defense, it's like, yeah, you get in there and you, you know, take the ankle out. Oh, awful. It's not, the head coach is the one that has to, like,

smile for the cameras. It wouldn't have been Lucas. It would have been, like, a special teams coach, or, like, are there special teams in basketball? That's a football thing. I don't know. You're asking the wrong person. Sports, sports, sports.

But I love that this three-point strategy that Jamie came up with is, so effective. Yes. Isn't that so fun? I love that they involved him in that. It's fun to watch. Yeah, I would like to watch a whole basketball game like that, like a real one.

Because even once you figure out the trick of it, right? Where you're like, all they're doing is shooting three pointers. If anyone can shoot, it's like impossible to guard. And so it just, you have to be all over the. court instead of kind of bunched up in the middle or like right under the net you have to be everywhere at once and it's impossible did you watch ted lasso no that was one of the things they did on the show they broke up the strategy and it was almost identical to that like you we did it at my high school so so there's no way to guard so anybody's it's anybody's ball at any moment in football we called

it this it was a single wing offense where the entire team could be a receiver, which meant like they would throw it to like the kicker sometimes. They would throw the ball to like a big huge offensive linemen would carry the ball for a while. And so the other teams were so confused. They were like, what is Parkview doing? Like you don't pass the ball to the guy that's 400 pounds and can't run? And we were like, yes, you do. Yes, you do. Why don't we do that more? Like, why don't they do that more in sports? It feels like it would be the most fun way to play. Just tricking people?

Tricking people. Yeah, and you never quite know what to expect. Like, I get the idea of laying out a strategy and doing a play. And maybe it's sort of like what we do. And when we rehearse, like a blocking rehearsal, you have a general sense of where you're going to go. And I could see why it might feel a bit like pandemonium if anybody can do anything. But, I mean, there's still rules.

But if the whole team is working really well together and really in sync, yeah, I could see that would be really fun. we should well yeah i don't know well that's that's how we'll do our next rehearsal we'll just anybody can say the lines right you don't necessarily have to say the lines anybody can say the lines you can walk anywhere you want it will just be like a play uh-huh anybody can say the lines that's great okay so at the beginning of the episode hold on i'm going back i made extensive notes here so the whole brook thing at the hospital is it wrong of me to be a little butt hurt that Peyton gets up, takes Brooke to the hospital, is sitting

with her. But then the second Lucas gets there, Brooks, like, get lost. Like, I'm sure Peyton would have loved to sit there with Lucas. Yeah. I don't know. She wasn't, was she giving you permission to leave because she knew it was awkward for you? It wasn't awkward for Peyton. Payton would love to hang out with Lucas and have an excuse. But then when Brooke says in front of Lucas, It's like, you can go. If Peyton's like, dude, dude, I'm trying to help me out, man. Yeah, no, listen, we can all like reminisce together.

Let's just sit here. I'll stay, man. I'm going to stay right here. I didn't love it. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does. feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something

we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, Peyton had some stuff to do though. She had to go take care of her big recording day with Haley and

Mia shows up and that's fun. Nice to see. Well, Katie again. The commercials that we did this episode. Full on commercials. It's great. I mean, hey, like, at least it's a worthy cause. Well, between rock the vote and then, hold on, wrote it down here.

Oh, yeah, it was a Starburst Thursday night concert series at Six Flags. There you go. So that's two heavy hitters in there, ma'am. Yeah. And I remember it being this thing of like, why don't you just improvise and tell us what your favorite starburst color is? Oh, really? They asked you that? Yeah. Like, if it's not in the script, I'm not saying it. Quit asking me. Yeah, give me my money. Whatever, man. I guess they were key. Maybe they really were sponsoring Kate's tour. Seems like that's reasonable. Was Kate on tour at that moment, though? I have no idea. Yeah. This, I remember wearing this outfit.

I remember filming the water balloon stuff with you. Yeah, I remember that too. No other part of this. Yeah. No other part. But I'll tell you what, all of our makeup looked really good in this episode. Did you notice that? Do you know what I noticed is how like fresh and pale we all were?

Remember in the early aughts when we could be so pale and it wasn't a vampire show? We just didn't understand contour or bronzing or any of that mess. That's right. That was pre-Cardashian, like before they were teaching everyone about drawing on your face. I don't know. We were translucent. It was glorious. Yeah, but really lovely. Like, what's wrong with that? No, I was into it. I liked it. It's so funny when you look at the trends from now and then. Yeah.

And you see, like, young kids look super, super adult. And, like, on Disney shows and Nickelodeon shows and stuff like that, you're like, wow, you look. look 40 and you're 14. That's crazy. I feel like looking back on these shows, we did look age appropriate. Absolutely. That was, I think, such a part of the character of the show. The town, the realism of the life that we were living. But yeah, you're right. It is funny. Maria went to school today and they had like character day. So you dress up like your favorite character. She decided to go as Rory Gilmore. Oh my God.

So cute, right? And so we're looking through and she's like, we're kind of scrambling this morning to get it together. She's like, mom, do you have a Henley? I'm like a Henley. Wait, I don't even, I literally don't even remember what that is. And she's showing me these, it's a long or short sleeve shirt. It's like usually tight or ribbed. And it has those three.

It's kind of like this. And it's got three buttons at the top. Yeah, like a thermal? Yeah, like a thermal. But with like the three buttons on the top, apparently that's called a Henley. I feel super out of touch. But it's back in trend now. And she's like, Mom, don't you have one?

Because you're from all your old clothes. I was like, oh my gosh, I don't have. I do not. She ended up in a sweater and jeans and converse. And I made her a mug that I tried to draw the Luke's logo on it and then handed her crime and punishment to walk out the door. And she looked at both of them and was like, I don't want your props. Oh, that's such a Lorelei thing of you to do.

want your cross. It's just like draw on a post-it-no real fast. Here, here's a coffee cup. It says Luke's. There you go. Yeah, that'll work. Yeah. The trends really have come back.

And in fact, I know we see a lot of the kids who have done all this high contour and all the makeup trends on TikTok and everything. But I think the natural look is coming back. All that high flute and stuff is mellowing out. And I see a lot of Maria and her friends. A lot more mellow. Yeah, it's a lot more mellow makeup. So it'll be.

it'll come back around. I'm sure the vampire paleness will come back to. Listen, and like the super like mat, like just powder me. Powder me. Powder. Just love it. I loved our makeup, though. You know who looked very good in this episode? We have to talk about this. Is the doctor. Okay, excuse me. Yes, major chemistry with Brooke. Where did he go? I was dying for that storyline. Same.

Hard same. Like, can we please find out that actor's name? We should probably talk about him. Yeah, we should. I'll look it up. He was American Andy. Right? 100%.

A thousand percent. American Andy. Which is likable. Chris beat him. Okay. Chris beat him. What the hell else has Chris Beatom been doing these days? Come on Chris. Chris, where, why didn't you stay on our show and make us all so happy?

He was so. so dialed in and what I really loved about this performance between Sophia and him was that there was no wink wink like hey we're flirting over the baby no and I loved that he wouldn't give her his

first name in that moment at first I was like oh why aren't you tell like what's wrong with you why don't you tell her but it actually felt really great I agree just needed to keep it professional that's it he was like the first person that remained professional with her yeah like think about like the English teacher she

hooked up with, and then, like, who she hooked up with? That was totally unprofessional. It was like everybody was always looking out for they just, oh, she, they just couldn't resist her. But what a gross placed position to be in where you feel like no man can ever resist you no matter what. They've got, they've got integrity until they meet you. Like, gross. That's just, that, that's such a unsafe place to, to live in emotionally. Well, he hasn't aged a day. No, not at all. He was inside Amy. Schumer um law and order SVU he did three episodes black hawk down mr proper's penguins he was on bull blind spot he's got to be new york based here because he's doing all the new york shows all right chris

beat him yeah pan am oh that makes sense he was in the following yeah like i really great actor but and i love that he kept it professional and was that was so caring of him to really look out for brooks best interests. Yeah. Can you imagine a doctor hitting on you and then taking away a baby that he had to do surgery on? No. And then what if the surgery doesn't go well? It's like, what were you sitting there thinking about me?

Did you get distracted? Like, what, I don't understand. Why are we, you're flirting with me before you do a surgery on this trial? Gross. He was above board. So handsome. I can't understand why we didn't keep that storyline going. But I did notice the Lucas cock blocking that went down.

I noticed that too. Like, and what is he doing? Why was he interfering? Why? Yeah, he showed up with that coffee and I was like, abort, abort. I think he's in the next episode. It says he did three episodes and we've only seen him in two, right? When he met with her.

No, we've seen him in three. No. Because they met the first time. Yeah, in his office. And then they've talked a second time. They did. Because we're all like, does this guy stay? I think so

I don't know you guys I just think he's I don't know He was really wonderful And like Lucas is asking He's like what's going on with you and Owen You know Oh he is in the next episode

Oh good Okay so we'll see it We'll see something happen there It has to He's married Maybe he's married Oh That's always a bum out

Right I bet he's married I bet he is Someone was like I'm all Marius Virgin that's right but he would have been a great match

for Brooke because he's got a job where he is her equal but does not give a shit about like the fame part of it he's not intimidated by her so caring man I really feel like we missed out on that if we couldn't have a

Brooke and Uncle Cooper storyline can I please at least have Brooke and Dr. Copeland they take away all the people that are like real viable options But the conversation with Luke and Brooke, where they're sitting there and they're, you know, she's asking about Lindsay and he's like, and she says she's going to call. She's going to call. She will. And then Luke asks about Owen and obviously nothing's going on there. But Luke, his comment about Lindsay, what was it? He said, I'll be okay for a little while longer when Brooke said she'll be in touch. this whole thing leading up to the Lindsay news.

He said, I'll be okay for a little while longer. Oh, like, I can keep holding out until she... Yeah, Brooke's crying. And she says, I didn't. I never told Angie that I loved her. Right. And then they're like, okay, well, now let's... We said the word love.

Let's talk about our love lives. And she talks about Owen. She's like, what about Lindsay? Luke says, I haven't talked to her in one week. It's been one week that I have not heard from her. And he says, I'll be okay for a little while longer. and I was like but

what does that mean? Like maybe I'm being sensitive because all of the like Peyton wants him so bad and he really wants to be with Lindsay and I'm starting to feel like a consolation prize at this point

like I said that a couple weeks ago and now it really feels like that like oh he really is exhausting every tool in his kit to like try to get Lindsay back and only when all hope is lost is he like, fine, Peyton.

Does Lindsay ever come back? I hope so. She's fun. I can't remember if she came back and like, and he still, then he chose Peyton or if that was ever, that sucks. I just, I really, I mean, Lucas, Lucas was rough for me in this episode and watching him, first of all, when you walked into Tric and he was passed out, you and the

shadows, I thought you were Michaela. The way that that was shot briefly, there was a brief moment where I went, oh, my God, Lindsay came back, and then you walked out, and it was you. And, you know, there she is. She's picking him up. She's taking him home, taking care of him, being a friend. And he says, I hate you. You ruined my life.

You're roaning my life? The whole speech that Mia gives, the guys are honest when they're drunk. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So this happened in real life on the show. What do you mean in real life on the show? An actor who shall remain nameless. I ran into in town at a bar and they were hand-boned.

And I walked in and they were like, what are you doing here? no one even likes you and like like went off on me and I was like what like nobody likes you and I was like okay all right and it was like you need to leave and so I left and then the next day I got a phone call and it was this person saying I don't remember what I said to you but I woke up this morning and I remember your face and I said something so horrible to you and I'm so sorry and i don't remember what i said but i didn't mean it and it was such a weird like sweet awful interaction it's still this to this day it haunts me because i'm like that's that was the real reaction do boys tell the truth when they're drunk i don't know i think everybody tells

the truth of what they're feeling in that exact moment i don't know that the truth is actually actual truth. I think it's just the truth of my feelings right now. Yeah. I mean, look, I know who I am when I walk into a bar. Maybe not everybody's pumped for that energy. It's like, cool, cool. At least you're straight up about it. Wow. Yeah. Aggressive. But then when this was in the script, I was like, wait a second. Yeah. Is this a reference to that? Did you tell anybody about it? Like, how did that end up getting into. Yeah, people know about it. Okay, so yeah, maybe they... But that's not, I mean, look, life's one big quankadank. It could just be totally random. Maybe this is something that boys do all the time is get hand-boned and say mean things to girls. Um, but I remember

playing that scene. And that's what I was thinking about when Peyton reacted to Lucas. It was a good reaction, that turn at the door and the just, what? What? That was so innocent and sweet, like, you couldn't possibly have just said that to me. Broke my heart. He did. He did. He meant it so much. Why do you think he said that?

Is it like, it's really that I love you? I don't know. I didn't love that Peyton was like stroking his hair and stuff. Like if the tables have been turned and a boy was like stroking a passed out drunk chick's hair and then kissing her on the head and stuff, we'd be like, I don't know. If it's a friend, it's like, you can. You care about somebody and you're just like... But they're not friends. Like, if it was Brooke, I would understand it.

They're still friends. They have such a long history. She cares about him. It felt totally just genuine and loving and not creepy at all to me. Really? Because I thought pain was being a total creep. No, not at all. I can't have you in real life, so I'll wait to her passed out.

And then I will pet you. Gross. No, they have a long history. for me it was it felt totally natural they've known each other for so long they've been through so much together when you see somebody that you've been through a lot with regardless of the status of your relationship at that moment and you see them in a bad place of course you reach out and you give them a hug you stroke their hair and like i love you i guess i'm gonna see lucas waking up why are you touching me uh what i hate you you ruined my life why are you touching me no I want shit to work out for

Peyton and Lucas I just wish it I don't know how it's going to be justified like I don't know how it's not consolation prize second pickings yeah I hope that they address that

I hope Peyton actually really addresses that do you remember ever having conversations with the writers about that no I like seriously right now all these years later I'm just a viewer at this point

because I don't remember how we get there and I remember being really excited about getting there and like Peyton and Lucas finally getting together because I was all

I'm all for it I just don't know what the stepping stones are I'm still trying to figure it out and I can't nothing I got nothing yikes

especially not after that It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who will be a little bit. Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast,

Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk about Haley. This storyline felt the realist to me.

Like, Haley hearing Mia talk about, I couldn't possibly have commitments in my life, like a husband or a kid or even a boyfriend or a cat, you know? that sting felt real. It did. It is a very real thing. When you watch musicians go on the road and the way that their lives are,

it's legitimately, I mean, we look at like our transpo guys, you know, first in, last out. And it's like, it's that schedule, but more because you actually don't get to go home at the end of the night at all. There's no. Yeah.

you're just on a bus and hopefully you go back and see your family. I mean, unless you're a massive superstar and then you can afford to have a family bus and then a crew bus and then a musician bus. But most people on tour are not in that. They're lucky if they get a bus for everything. It's usually you're in a van or you're, you know, it's sprint your van or something. Self-driving, yeah, self-driving, things like that. And Haley was not famous enough to be able to have a tour bus.

So it's, yeah, that would have been really, really rough. And I think it's really wise of her to be making this consideration thinking about what's going to happen next. Well, just the thought of like, cool, I'm making an album, but to what end? Yeah. Like, can I, can I even promote it? Am I wasting money and resources? Yeah. Yeah, I hate it for her because she's only four years older than Mia.

but just a totally different lifetime. Yes. And seeing how much fun me is having probably hurts a little bit too. I didn't love that. Yeah. I know. I feel for Haley. She's got a lot of potential.

She's got a lot of talents. And she has so much in her life and she's holding so much and she's holding space for so many people. and just trying to figure out, like, who am I? Where do I belong? What do I do? I know we're all kind of trying to figure that out. But when I look at, like, Peyton has a really clear vision for her future and what she wants, it seems like, with the record label.

And not everything's figured out, but she seems very focused on a direction. Brooke is the same way. Brooke is a little bit more ADD about it. Like, I want to do this. I want to do this now. I don't want to do this. But, you know, she knows how to succeed at all of it, much like Sophia. So it's fun to watch her go through those experiences. Yeah. Luke with writing and basketball, Nathan, I guess is a little more aimless, but he's finding his way. Yeah, Haley's just kind of like, I don't know where to plant my feet. What is it? What am I supposed to do? Did any of it feel triggering, though? Like, I mean, there are certain conversations that we had in that, uh red bedroom office space that like there's one that Peyton and Mia have that I felt really not triggered by but just it was a little on the nose um for you like you done the tour thing you done the music thing and then you just recently like gotten married and you were really

committed to being supportive of your relationship and of your home and you had a baby like not long after this, did you feel like they were kind of like targeting your life choices? I didn't, I don't think I felt that at the time. I think looking, looking back now, watching this, it definitely has a strong mirror to that. And it makes, I mean, we certainly know that that was a habit in the writer's room of take just, let's just write for what's going on in their personal lives. so that nobody has to do any acting. Like, I don't understand why that was necessary.

Did they think we couldn't do it? I think they just didn't want to be creative. Not all of them, but some. But it is interesting for me to watch Haley now. You know how, okay, have you ever heard this, the things that, like, the things that piss you off the most about other people are the things that are actually your deepest flaws. and yeah and I see that in Haley because I still cringe when I watch her a lot I still feel like I do and I think it's because I'm seeing things I'm able to watch myself in her in a way that's safer than me trying to the you know the self-exploration we try and do when we work on ourselves it's like looking through two mirrors instead of just one

Totally. So I'm watching myself in her and I'm seeing the patterns of holding back communication, just fear, just like constant fear of doing the wrong thing, saying the wrong thing. I mean, I've grown a lot in my life in that realm, but I'm still, I still have a long way to go. And I know that because Haley pisses me off so much. I'm watching it. I'm like, oh, why does it still bother me? That must mean I still function from that place in a lot of ways. God dang it. I think she's so vulnerable and likable in these moments. We're like, she's jealous of a kid. She's jealous of an 18-year-old kid, and she's got the moxie to just say it. Yeah.

Instead of be like, everything's fine. Everything's fine. She's just like, it's difficult to be around you and all these things happening in your orbit, because I don't want to say that it's stuff that I've, lost out on. But it is. Yeah. You know, Haley won't ever get to go on a big tour while she's a young swinging single, you know, and hit kiss a different boy in a different town every night and stay out till three in the morning. Like, those are rites of passage that she is not

going to go through by choice. Yeah. Every time you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. And I see that a lot. Yeah, I see that with Haley. It is, there are those things that feel like their rites of passage, but she said yes to some other things that were meaningful and gave her different insights in life and things that felt like she just learned a lot of different stuff. But it is hard to look at the other side and not go, is the grass greener? Should I have? And don't we all do that? We all, whenever we've made a choice, don't we always turn to around and go, but, you know, it's like Lott's wife in the Bible. She turned around, turned into a pillar of salt. She's the, should I go back? Boom. No. No. Never. You got to commit. She's got this

mother-in-law as an example, though. Like, for all my girlfriends that had kids in high school, because there were a number of them, they all get to be like hot chicks at 38, you know? And then they've got like these 12 years later instead of the 12 years up front. And it's just a reversal of like, not 12, you look, 23 years, whatever, whatever. However long you want to be frisky. I just like that they stack it at the end as opposed to the beginning. And yeah, you're not going to miss out on it. You've just reordered which order you're going to do it in.

Yeah. Haley could be on tour right now. She could be making terrible choices. I don't know if that would make her life any better, but she certainly could be. Let's talk about, oh, these are funny little random notes just to finish off the Haley topic. The sitting on that roundabout on the playground. Oh, how is that? I have such vertical, like motion sickness really, really badly.

And so I can't do things that spin at all. I actually stopped dancing when I was younger because I could, I just couldn't. I could do like jazz and sort of figure my way through like a turn. But if you ever go to, for anybody out there who has never been to a dance class, you start at one end of the room and you spin in a circle over and over and over until you're on the other side of the room. Yeah, I don't know. You don't get dizzy.

You can spin around. You're good. Girl, you can do Fossi. You're just not doing like what, Twilitharp. Is that the one that's always spinning? Yeah, right. Yeah. Could you spin?

Are you got no problem spinning or you get dizzy? No, I have sort of like, I. won't go underwater because I don't like water being over my head. I have little stuff like that, but I... You don't get dizzy. It seems fine. Well, that bad day. I don't like drops.

Oh, yeah. Like, I don't... No, you don't do roller coasters. Sensory things. I get it. I knew a girl once that couldn't do somersaults because being upside down made her cry. That's really funny. Being upside down.

She was on the cheerleading squad. They tried to make her do a somersault. She burst into tears. And we were like... this is strange no spinning is a weird feeling so how did they film that well i think they wanted me to do something else i think they wanted us to be sitting on it and facing each other and talking and spinning and we was like a whole thing where they were gonna i was going to be running around spinning with him and then jump on and they wanted to have us have this conversation

with the thing spinning which also felt weird because i was like well that's not really the moment it's not the mood anyway but no it's that 70s show with like the camera in the middle with all the background spinning i think that's kind of what they wanted something like that because it was there were some stylized moments in the episode but i just said guys i can't so we ended up just laying down on this thing and you can see it i'm it looks great turning it and i'm i'm controlling it with my feet so that if we start going too fast i can slow down oh it looked like so serene and sweet it was fun. I also was sick. I think I caught Sophia's cold from the last episode. I don't know if you heard that. But I loved that moment. Yeah, it was nice. That moment of where everyone's been lying to

Jamie for so long. And Haley finally tells him, your grandpa Dan's a bad guy. Yeah. It was so simple and clean and loving, but necessary. Yeah. What a hard thing to have to tell a kid. And how sad that then she gets to go up on the roof and throw water balloons at him with paper. So great. Okay, so hold on. What the was going on? Was I in front of a green screen at some point?

Why? Did you notice anything weird about that scene? Your footage. Yeah, your coverage was weird. Either we ran out of daylight and they were making fake daylight so that it looked like the background was lit up but the foreground wasn't or it was

a green screen. I can't tell what was going on. But then there was another point where I think Quentin was in front of a green screen. Oh. Like there were a couple parts You guys at home, send us messages if you noticed those. There's some like weird parts

that felt like they were shot after the fact. But I loved being on top of Karen's with you. I remember that scene like yesterday. Yeah, that was fun. Because it was like, I remember not really knowing how to do the whole like, no, don't jump. You're going to be okay. Yeah. No, you pulled it off, though, because it was so silly. Like, since when is Haley somebody that anyone has to worry about?

Millicent's like, Haley looks depressed and she went up to the roof. What? What? But that's what, I think I was being told like, no, you have to play it like it's real. And I remember being like, But. So I'm saying melodramatic this episode. I don't think so, guys. I'm glad you did that. And how many times did it take to get that water balloon at Paul's feet? I feel like it was a lot. I feel like, and because the sidewalk had to be dried off every time they would splash the water balloon and it didn't hit in the right place.

Remember they used the flame thrower to evaporate the water on the sidewalk? I didn't remember that. Yeah, dude. Oh, that's fun. Flamethrower. Yeah, if you need water to disappear real quick, just get a flamethrower. Let me go.

I'll go and get mine out of my garage. BRB. Those poor people that lived across from us. Boo hiss. Endless entertainment. Well, the last thing we didn't hit his mouth. And I love him. I always love mouth.

He's always just doing the right thing. Gosh, darn it. He's just always doing the right thing. I mean, not always. He's bad with like hot chicks. Yeah, yeah. Grown-up mouth is doing the right thing. I loved that he knew full well he had that footage.

Ooh, he knew he had that footage. And put his job in jeopardy. Which is dumb. No, it's Lucas's legacy. I mean, once something's on tape, it's out there forever. No, I'm saying it's dumb that they like, We're upset with him for not getting that. Oh, yeah.

I don't know. I get it. As a job, as a boss, you're like, I'm going to give you a chance, go out there and get something great. And if the person I sent out to get something great at a basketball game that could have been kind of boring anyway, happens to be there when one of the biggest fights breaks out and it's this massive deal and everybody's talking about it. And he didn't get any footage. Fired. Sorry. fired but i can't believe lucas isn't fired an adult grabbing a kid oh oh absolutely yeah that

should have been a where was barry corbin for that we needed a whitey comeback that's a dan scott move oh good call yeah throwing fits when things don't go your way and everybody else has to suffer screaming at the kids um i wonder if that'll come up oh dad why was day suit so big in this episode. You're so right. He was wearing like three sizes too big and I was like are they trying to make it look like he's like getting smaller because he's his heart's failing or like what? Which is hilarious because Paul is so large.

He's such a big dude that how do you even... How do you get clothes too big for him? That's what I mean. Yes. He has trouble enough getting clothes that will fit. It did look like a little kid. So with Jamie wearing. his oversized suit

and then Dan wearing his oversized suit maybe that's why I felt like Dan was really just like a five-year-old like they're both just kind of shuffling

around the hairs in my face um no we can't end we can't end without talking about my honorable mention is that creepy

doll that plays catatonic baby Angie I am in my notes creepy silicone baby Angie you guys baby angie is this beautiful little girl with like beautiful silky curly hair and pretty little lips and like the cutest little nose and not only did we use one of those nasty lint covered silicone hospital dolls that people use for filming it didn't even look like they brushed off the lint girl they did multiple close-ups of it why would you get a close-up of that thing. Nobody was like, do we have any masking tape around here? We can just like pick some of this

lint off off the baby's face? What happened? Nobody thought like maybe we should keep this out of focus, you know? Like, see, see Brooke's hand on a little, on a little chest or something or, or even just like Brooke holding like a little hand. Maybe a little silicone hand wouldn't have looked as weird. But like all the veins are protruding in this thing and it's got all sunken eyeballs and it looks horrible. Yeah. Was this a Halloween episode? When did this air? May 12th. I'm excited for Skills and Deb. I can't wait to see how that starts to unfold. That was a really fun surprise. Probably my favorite moment from the episode. I can't wait to see that. I remember thinking it was totally unreasonable at the time. Yeah. Like, Deb date a 22-year-old. But what's It's the youngest you've kissed.

Ooh. Well, the youngest age difference. Uh-huh. I guess somebody, I think I was, uh, 306, 36 or 37. And I was, I was snogging on, um, a 23-year-old. See, it's like the same age difference. Yeah, I think it's sexy. Listen.

I love a gap. You know what I mean? I've been locked down since I, you know, was what, 26? Yeah, but you got your age gap there. I have to live vicariously through you. So just keep going. I love that for Deb. Oh, fuck, yeah.

You know, she's texting all her girlfriends from college being like, guess what? I also loved it. But, you know, she did her first reaction was, this can't happen. You saw, like, I can't believe I showed you my, no, no, no, absolutely not. You know, I mean, at least she had the first appropriate reaction. And then she was like, well, I mean, you are legal. Okay. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, where are we at with fan questions here? We got a couple to jump into. Yeah, Catherine wants to know. Can you explain what it means when you say that people have chemistry? Which couple do you think had the most on-screen? chemistry. I guess that really is like a... Subjective.

Like an industry term that can kind of seem pretentious and weird if you don't work in film or... Isn't it vague, though? It's the same... Like, you can see it in a room with people... You can see it in a room with people. You just look at two people talking and there's some people that when they talk to get... The way that they light up, when they speak to each other, the way that their body

language connects, you're like, oh, they've got a good... There's like sparks flying. Yeah, but it's not like a thing that people applaud in other industries. It's not like you'll see two teachers who are like, everyone else in the staff room is like, they have wonderful chemistry the way in our industry. It's like the only thing that matters. Yep, true. Very true.

It is marvelous. Look at those chemists with their fabulous chemistry. Their emotional chemistry. Yeah, that's what it is. I think as an actor, when you're a little tiny baby actor, I think it happens accidentally sometimes. Like you just find energies that match yours in a way where, you know, people talk about like higher vibration, where it's like you're just in somebody's space and all of a sudden things start clicking and the language happens so easily and the banter's really nice. and you're able to create eye contact that's not creepy. It's actually, like, lovely.

And then you keep doing it over and over again, and it sort of becomes like a muscle memory. And then you're able to manufacture that with whoever you're hired to work with. You know, it's our job to create chemistry. And there's nothing more infuriating than when you just can't. Just can't. You know, that may.

what you just said made me think of chemistry isn't always, it's not always a good reaction, but there's a strong reaction. So it doesn't necessarily even have to be two people whose energy matches and they get along. Like it could be two people who really can't stand each other, but the combination of their respective. Abortion? Yeah, emotions around each other creates a reaction that is interesting to watch. And I think it's, chemistry really just has to do with interest. There's something about the way that these two people interact with each other that makes me want to watch it more than the way they may interact with other people.

And it's kind of just like an it factor where you don't really know how to... You can't predict it. Yeah, you can't. Like, you can try and manufacture it. That is our job. But it's not all... It doesn't always work. And sometimes it's so easy.

It's surprising to me. some of the people that I'm really, really good friends with and who I enjoy, who I have zero screen chemistry with. And I've been shocked in the past. Like, oh, I really thought that we were going to light this up. Yeah. We did it. Totally.

We did it. But I remember doing that episode of Dawson's Creek with chat. And everyone kept telling me, you two have amazing chemistry. And that was not something that anyone had ever said to me as a VJ, right? And I was deeply offended because in my mind, I thought they were saying, you should break up with your boyfriend and date Chad. And I was like, there is just no motherfuck away that's going to happen. But what they really meant was like you two just have a thing.

Yeah, just there's a thing that's neat to watch. It's interesting. And that was probably part of the reason that I got Peyton as a part, because they were like, you know who we should call, that bitchy Burton girl, because she likes to keep him on his toes. Like, she'll cackle in his face. Yeah. Who do you think you've had the most chemistry with in your career? That's a good question. I don't know. I think it's the same. I mean, what you just said about people that you were on set with that you felt like for sure you were going to have great chemistry with and then you ended up not. I've had those in my life. I mean, I I know there's a lot of people out there who are going to be mad if I don't say James Lafferty. I know. Listen, you guys, stop me so judgmental. Let her answer the question. When I was doing Pearson, I really loved working with Morgan Spector, and I felt like, I felt like we had really good chemistry.

It was so easy. I felt like in a lot of ways, we were kind of reading each other's minds in the scene, like where the other person was going to go and how we were going to, just even body movements. it felt so natural that it was surprising and it worked really well because there are two characters who were supposed to be having an affair with each other. So that was, that felt great. I don't, I don't know. It's hard for me to judge when I watch it who I'm like, oh, I have great chemistry with that person. Although Andrew Walker is another person I know for sure. I, and I love him and we have great chemistry. What about you? I mean, for me, graduating from One Tree Hill, where it was such an important training ground for us because we had to create, I mean, you didn't,

you were with Nathan the whole time, I had to create chemistry with a number of different people and it's a skill that you practice. But then when I went to White Collar, it wasn't even just chemistry with Matt Bowmer because every scene was like a group scene. It was the chemistry with Matt, Tim DeK., and Willie Garson all at the same time

where it was so fast-paced. Yeah. And I felt so, like safe to experiment there that that felt electric. I'd never been anyone's gal Friday before. And that felt like,

I mean, I was breathless going home from work every day because I was just like, this is it, man. Cool. That kind of chemistry. Yeah, where it's not even just one person. Sometimes you get just the right combination

in a room. Yeah. Right combination of compounds in one vial and papao. Bam. Great question, Catherine. That really was. I guess I'd never thought about it.

Me either. Well, let's spin a wheel. Yeah. While we're spinning the wheel, I told you my honorable mention, what was yours? I mean, I would make it the doctor, but we talked so much about him, but he's really great. He seemed honorable, Joy. Honorable. The honorable Chris beat him.

We miss you. We wish we could have had more of you. Right. Yeah, and we didn't get to work with him. Not at all. What the hell? bomb out. All right.

This week we have a most likely to... Oh, Lord. Most likely to move back in with their parents. I mean, Nathan and Haley are living with them, but I guess she moved back in with them, right? And then, like, Lucas is still in his childhood bedroom. Which also, by the way, we didn't talk about the fact that when the show opened

after the montage, skills is just hanging out in Lucas's bedroom. And he's watching his computer, which now we know what he was watching. But also, like, do grown-back? who are who are not romantically interested in each other, hang out in each other's bedrooms? No.

That doesn't seem realistic. Not when there's like a living room or a kitchen with a table and chairs. Yeah, it was just such a high school move. I was like, why y'all in Lucas's bedroom? I mean, okay, but like, that just seems unrealistic. I didn't even realize it was Lucas's bedroom. I was like, what is this weird office space

I thought it was at the school Like a lounge Because they were having like A basketball meeting it seemed like But it was in his bedroom I don't know Look Nathan is the one That has moved in and out of his mommy and daddy's houses

And like lived with them off and on forever Nathan Yeah But what about in real life Who in real life is most likely I mean Sophia's on a vacation With her parents right now Yeah

She's traveling with her mom and dad And she lives like closeish to them I would say she sees her parents. She does, but it's not a, you know, there's a stigma about moving back in with your parents. And I don't think that she doesn't fit that at all. I don't know people in real life. Who's moving back in with their parents? Oh.

I'm having a hard time. I am too. Yeah. Because I'm just thinking. Well, we just, everyone's such consummate professionals. Who would move back into their childhood home? There, that's good. you yeah that's the yeah i would oh man if i could buy my old house on ithaca yes do you just listen to that

miranda lambert song and just cry all the fucking time joy every time i go home i drive past my old house and i keep hoping that they're like outside so i can be like who i thought if i could touch this place or feeling may i come in she replaced the whole song i would fucking love to go back and buy my whole house. Jeffrey would be so bad. Baby, guess what I did? Oh, great, another place to live. Fantastic.

It's just chain link fences. One more place to take care of. Vinyl siding. It's all that Americana shit that I love. Great. Well, here's to that. I hope it happens for you. That would be fun.

It's fun to have. Guys, the next episode is season 5, episode 18. What comes after the blues? I don't know. I guess we're going to find out. It's a finale, right? Season 5 finale? Does Dan's heart finally get picked up by this dog?

Yeah, we're going to get heart confetti that we can all throw together. All right, bye, guys. It's in the mail. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about. that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is nicole garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way,

it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.