Drama Queens - Sunset, Before Sunrise • EP322

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

As the sun sets on Season 3… Hilarie, Sophia and Joy recall the long days of filming, which entailed getting up at 3:30am for all-day shoots.  And while the season finale finds Nathan attempting to save Cooper and Rachel, the recap finds the Drama Queens defending Hilarie for Peyton’s move that still upsets fans to this day.  Is all the drama worth it? We'll find out on this episode of Drama Queens!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Wow. The finale. It really was one of the best episodes we've ever done. I loved that.

I shouldn't have eaten this Thai soup. It stressed me out so much. I like the soup plus the stress. Terrible idea. This is going to be a long day, girls. Oh, my God. It was very emotional. Guys, we're on season three episode 22. The show must go on. Our season three finale, which originally aired on May 3, 2006. I mean, Joy, this episode, episode was massive for you. Yeah, it was huge. This was the one that I, the story when I, um, had to drive from Atlanta when I hired somebody to drive me from Atlanta.

This was, it was the limousine day, the limousine going off the edge of the, oh my God. Yeah, they had a helicopter. They had, um, all the stunts, you know, was all the underwater scuba guys, the Tim McKinney, who we were talking about on our live tour earlier, uh, this week, who was one of our, um, crew guys was out there, uh, um, um, um, and, um, um, um, um, and, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, I just remember him sitting out on that river, like, all day long, just on a plank. The camera was on, I feel like they had the camera on like a, it kind of looked like a little dock, like a mini dock, but it was floating in the middle of the ocean, or the ocean, the river,

floating in the middle of the river. It was like a barge. It was a barge, thank you. It was a camera barge. And Matt Dole. And, yeah, the guys are out there. And there was just, there's so much that goes into something like that with the electricity underwater. And you've got actors who are in a car underwater and they can't just get out easily.

So they had to have oxygen tanks. And I mean, it was a huge, huge episode. Well, didn't they shoot all of the inside car stuff on the tank on stage? Like, surely they didn't shoot that in the river, did they? Because that's disgusting. The car stuff? When we see Rachel and Cooper and James underwater, in Wilmington, they were trying to build. film, and they had just built this massive tank on one of the stages.

I don't know if it had been done by then. I mean, we were there all day. As far as I remember, they'd shot everything in that river underwater. That's bananas. Gross. Well, just for you, how much heads up did you have, like, that this wedding was going to go off the rails and be, like, there are 37 cliffhangers at the end of this thing in hopes that we didn't get canceled.

I know, who's pregnant? I loved this script. Is it Hayley, Brooke, Rachel? We know Karen is. We know Karen is. Was, we're Haley and Karen pregnant at the same time? I guess I forgot that if that was the case. I guess we were.

Yeah, no, I got the script the same time as everybody else did. That's all. I just found out when the script came like a week before we shot it or whatever. It was a big deal. It was a really, really big episode. It was huge for you guys, too. I mean, this is a major turning point for Brooke and Peyton. Really big for everyone.

You did such a good job. You were so sad this whole episode. I felt terrible. I know. Yeah, poor Brooke. But I'm also going to defend Peyton because Brooke keeps saying, I have so much going on. And I'm like, hi. Shot dead mom.

Yeah. Also, same. Lots going on. Same. And Sophie and I, we laughed during this because it's like, really? We're going to go this hard over a high school boy? A high school boy. Yeah, I think, you know, I remember because that was our complaint then, too.

Yeah, we were just like all the way. You want us to go all the way? Like, really? Okay. But, you know, you have to lean into the drama. You have to lean into the conflict so that there can eventually be resolution and people can grow. Oh, it's like you have to figure out a way to make it true. And so the thing that I remember having to really lean in on was the betrayal of it.

Because to me, betrayal is like, I think everyone has, I call it a nuclear emotion, the thing that just makes you scorched earth. Yeah, yeah. And betrayal is a scorched earth thing for me. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, I guess that's what I have to really. try to draw on and and think about and have it be about the fact that my person, my best friend continues behind my back to have these experiences with the man that I'm in a relationship with. What does that do? How does that destabilize a person and make them feel like they can't

trust anyone around them? And I do feel like for as silly as it was that Brooke and Peyton were fighting over a high school boy, I feel like that. that sense of being rudderless worked? Yeah, I mean, I think there are breakups in female friendships that feel worse than divorce. You know, I've had them in my own personal life. Same. I had them as a teenager. I've had them as an adult.

And it's just like you mourn them and then sometimes you come back together and it's magic. But those blowouts are unlike any kind of fight with a dude. Like with the dude, you're fighting with two different sets of tools. Yeah, yeah. But when you're with a woman, it's like, we're both expert fencers. We're going to try to stab each other right now, and let's see who bleeds. And, yeah, for me, growing up, my girlfriends and I would kiss the same dude and think it was awesome. We'd be like, man, like, he was at my house on Saturday and your house on Sunday, and isn't that hilarious?

Oh, yeah, we thought we were so funny doing that. I didn't have that. Yeah, I didn't either. never oh yeah we were just like he thinks that we like him oh i that's amazing the wherewithal to just be like whatever this is like so silly by the way that's how it should be yeah you got just all kiss the same person and then you can compare notes like who would because it's not gonna matter you're 15 like nothing matters but oh yeah i remember god i had a i had like a best friend in junior high in high school and then she liked a boy in high school who said he liked me uh-huh nothing happened

with anybody, by the way. They'd never been on a date. We'd never been on a date. He just was like, yeah, that girl who like goes to camp is more my type. And she literally, like, basically told me I was the worst person on the planet. And I was like, I don't think I even have a dog in this fight. Like, I didn't sign up for this. So it's weird thinking about all of it. It's interesting that you guys were so, I don't know, chill, progressive. I don't know what the word is. And that so many people aren't and I'm having this really meta moment where I'm like our girls not chill about dumb

boys because TV teaches us not to be like where did we learn? Oh no, did we do this? Do we do this? Do we help. Do this terrible thing? She says a kiss never means nothing. A kiss always means something. Joy goes that's bullshit. That's bullshit. Not true. Not true. I was looking for somebody to kiss last night.

I didn't need to mean anything. Stop. Is that what you were doing out on the phone outside our restaurant? You're just I can you imagine. I'm just like scrolling. There's a lot of handsome men in D.C. Hey, that's true. They're successful.

Yeah. You know? Smart. Polished. Political. Yeah. But it doesn't always need to mean something. It's just, you know, sometimes a kiss is just a kiss.

I mean, if you're in a relationship, that's a problem. You got to not do that when you're in a relationship, kiss other people. But I mean, yes. Yes. Correct. No, those are the rules. Well, look, we've said it before and we'll say it a million times when you're single, you should kiss whoever you want.

You should absolutely kiss. whoever you want. You should have fun with your girlfriend's tag teaming. I mean, honestly, I feel for Peyton because when I was in school,

I had a super, super beautiful best friend and everyone wanted to date her. And the only time they would want to date me is like as a consolation prize. And so I can see Peyton taking the scraps,

you know, where it's like, yeah, just whatever's left over from everybody else's stuff. Like, I'll work, you know?

Yeah. And as much as Brooke has attached, problems. Peyton also has attachment problems. And anybody that Peyton has had a relationship with is finding all this happiness with her friends. Like she dated Nathan and that was really toxic. And now, wow, what a great guy he is with Haley. You know, Lucas was like really shifty and also kind of manipulative with like Peyton being at her absolute lowest. And now he's showing up and writing all these letters for Brooke and so there is a thing about taking the scraps when you're a teenager because yeah you can't think bigger and that that may have been what Jake was tapping into with why he

yeah sort of sent Peyton away he deserves more than the than the scrap consolation prize but that's what I think is so you weren't the consolation prize oh Peyton never was like the consolation prize yeah I think he was worried that he might be that he wasn't sure if he was really the one for you he wanted you to be sure sure He wanted you to know that neither of you are the consolation prize and that it's not like, oh, Jake's a default because I can't have Lucas. Right. But what I find so interesting about that is that this idea of feeling like a consolation prize or taking the scraps is something everyone goes through. Yeah.

Because somebody who, there will always be someone who looks at each of us or each of you as like the number one ideal. And it always changes. it's like there are times when even in this show when Lucas is like it's Peyton and then he's like it's Brooke and then he's like it's Peyton and everyone he's so confusing but like it's it's just wild like even hearing you say oh I had this pretty friend in high school and like this guy like whatever it's crazy to me because I'm like oh my God when I remember even at this wedding like us being in the same dresses and just feeling so insecure looking at you and being like she is so pretty I don't want to stand next to her in this dress what are you talking about I have a hunchback

this whole episode so yeah we're just I remember watching you in that red dress too I was like yeah and like I had this terrible like half to the side mushroom haircut and my bangs were growing out and I just I had never felt less pretty I had never felt less pretty I mean yes we all own our own like yeah but it's but it's just interesting like that we can all be made to feel like were the less than person by somebody whose opinions might change month to month anyway. Like, oh, we're perfectly capable of making ourselves feel that way without anyone else's input.

Oh, yeah. By the way, we don't help. But it's like, it's just so wild that everybody can be in their own little bubble being like, oh no, I'm the weird one, oh no. And I don't even know where I'm going with it. I just, it's wild. it's wild to hear you say it knowing how I've felt it

and knowing that it is a thing that we universally experience and I'm like, man, when are we going to let that go? I don't know. Probably never. Well, no, you know what I, you know what was really fun is when we did our first photo shoot for drama queens and we hadn't done a photo shoot together since we were little kids. Yes.

And people used to make us feel like really competitive in those situations. It was like jockeying for who was going to wear the best outfit and like, you know, who was going to get these shoes and whose leg, you know, who was sitting in what position in the photo. Yeah. And there was so much jockeying that when we did that shoot and we didn't have any art directors and we didn't have like stylists from the network or the studio, we didn't have any voices in our heads other than our owns. Our owns.

Yeah, that's, it's all our owns. But we just all kind of looked at each other and we're like, okay, we're doing this different, right? And there was this mutual agreement that like, let's not do it like that, you know? and the opening up of the suitcases, if you will. Yeah, yeah. It's so helpful. It's so much easier now. I just bring undergarments.

And we just have fun. I can't bring the on top clothes, but I will bring you to undergarments. Fucking anywhere. Yes, yes. Give me all the shape-shifting undergarments that you have. I loved that because it's so much easier now as older women to be, just be supportive.

And really like, now that we're settled into, I love who I am, where I am in life. I'm comfortable with myself. There's always going to be flaws that I see in the mirror. And I've grown accustomed to them and love them in my own way. And I'm sure you guys do too. So there's not this sense of when you're so young, you're looking to the women around you,

the girls around you. And I was anyway, I think it sounds like you guys were too, to just sort of, we're figuring out who we are. So it's like, well, if my nose looked more like that, then I could be more like that person. Or if I, shoot, if I was just a little taller or if I was skinnier or if I was bigger or whatever. Like if I only could do, if I only, if I only, then I could be.

And it's weird. It's weird to, you know, I guess weird is the wrong word. It's nice, actually. It's nice to be able to be settled in who we are so we can all come together and not feel competitive. Yeah. Well, and I also think after a while you realize, oh, everybody feels this. Yeah.

Everyone has their fill in the blank. What story have we been sold that's made us waste? so much time worrying that we're not enough of this or too much of that, like, just the brain space. Well, and after a couple proven decades of like, I can still get it. Yeah. Even when I feel it is like it's like a physical, like this is like a, we were talking about caveman instincts.

This is caveman stuff. Yeah. This is like the basics of evolutionary science where, you know, you, you, the breeding part. It's the breeding thing. It's like we want to be the most attractive so that we can be the most safe. because if you're the most safe, then you've got the protection of the clan or the biggest of the cavemen.

It's some weird, deep, deep, old tribal instinct. So I don't know that it will ever go away, but we certainly have tools to take care of it. Did you guys ever read that book, Sex at Dawn? No. It's all about how humans evolved and the psychology of relationships, sexuality, femininity,

what's been oppressed, what's been supported, Like different cultures throughout the world? It will just blow your mind. Okay. And you go, oh, when you talk about that sort of caveman brain, I don't know why I've always referred to it as like lizard brain because I'm like it's this weird little part of our brains

that comes from before we were supposed to be these higher self people. And I think it's that desire to survive that's hardwired, which also is what can make us such nightmares with scary. mentality. Yeah. You know, the myth that there isn't enough to go around. Yeah. Makes us all crazy. Yeah. Is that why we're hoarders? Maybe. That's why we have like an apocalypse shelter? Just in case. Just in case. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, burn bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to be coming. a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going

electric that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just as a podcast. asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it make? Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That fit. It's because Nathan, who is this, like, protector, Joy, you were saying when we watch the episode, you're like, oh, my God, what a hero. When he dives off that bridge. I'm still on a soapbox about James needing an action hero movie career.

Yeah. He is such a hero, yeah. And it's effortless for him. Like, there's never a question of whether or not Nathan's going to go into that water. Yeah. And that dive. Who knows? That was really James.

I know. It was great. I wouldn't have done it. There's no fucking way. If I had been handed a script that said Hillary Burton jumps off a bridge into some dirty water, that would have happened. There would have been a man in a blonde wig. Are you serious? Never.

Oh, I would have fucking done it. Really? Yes. That's why I love acting. That's the fun of it. No, no. I want to stand real still. Get my mark.

Oh, my God. Sign me up to get dirty. I'm in. I love nothing more than doing stunts. I like all that. action adventure adventure but what i'm going to tell you right now is would i have done that north carolina in a river no because there were gaiters snakes and you there is no way oh yeah no if i knew it was safe it was if it was unsafe i wouldn't have done it for sure i think it was always a

little unsafe joy yeah we live in a treacherous time they'd always be like you'll be fine yeah we get staff infections you're fine don't worry about it you go to come back i remember going to do a movie in Louisiana in the early 2000s and being like, hey, should I get some hepatitis shots because I knew I was going to have to do a whole bunch of water work? Maybe that's what ruined it. I was doing like all this like swamp work. I was like, do I need to get hip shots or anything weird? And they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you should get all of those. And I'm like, how come no one in Wilmington was ever like, hey, you're going to be in the swamps? We should get you some shots. Yeah, dirty water above the waist is real, it's scary. I mean, depending on how long you're in it.

I even did a kayak down the L.A. River when I was like, what? I don't know about how I feel about this sitting in this kayak right now. I definitely drank a lot of water and just peed for a while after you're just like just praying not to capsize. Make sure. Clean it all out. Oh, no. This episode's called TMI. I love those episodes, guys. Yeah, I mean, what happened at the beginning of the episode? Well, we have, so here's what the basic recap is we have Dan and Deb. We've got Karen and Dan. We've got Rachel and Cooper and then Lucas Brooke, Peyton, and Nathan and Haley.

Those are the, and Mouth, Mouth was there. They're sweet sad DJ. Sweet sad DJ. I wish he had had a little more meat, but we were kind of filled up with that episode. That episode was bananas. I remember we spent like half a day shooting the Michelle Featherstone music. Yeah. because the labels would let us have artists

but we had to basically shoot a music video you know and they gave her a couple lines with Cooper yeah they did she had that sweet British accent she came back though didn't she she came back later and played trick I think did she I don't remember I liked her

I liked her musical a lot Did you spend time with her? A little bit we didn't go hang out outside of work I remember sitting back and chatting with her on the off time because those were long days I mean a wedding episode These finale episodes and the weddings.

And finale, yeah. God, whether we had a concert at trick or a wedding, you knew you were in for like basketball days. You were like, here we go. It's going to be 18 hours. I better bring a knitting needle or a madlib's book. Yeah. Bad libs.

And we also, every single one of us had to be done up. Like, it's one thing to do everyday makeup. It's another thing to have to do heightened event hair and makeup. And so we would have to start shooting the second the sun came up so we would have as many daylight hours as possible. So we were going into work at like 3.34 o'clock in the morning

so that all, like literally every woman on the show was being done. Yeah. And we yeah. Yeah, you're there at like 3.30. You start shooting at like 6.30. You know, you have a rehearsal at 6am. Yeah. Dawn breaks at 6.30 and then you're just fucking in it

till 7.30. Well, that's why you said we all had our hair. Remember? Because I'm coming in that sun kissed t-shirt. shirt. We had to get it in somewhere. Get it in there. Karen has her hair up. I've got my hair up. Then, Sophia, you got your hair up for the next episode. Yeah, when I'm setting up the wedding. Yep. And then all the wedding stuff is hair up locked in place. That hair spray. Like, we do not. I guarantee you in that pre-production meeting, they sat the hair department down and they said, we do not have time for hair. Oh, I guarantee you the hair department sat or boss is down and said,

And we cannot do all these girls with their hair down like you like it. So either you let us put their hair up. Say it and Jojo's voice. You're either going to let us put their damn hair up or you're going to need to give us an extra day on this episode. That's right. Yeah. Or we need four more hair people.

You know expensive four hair people are. I know. Yeah, no, they had to make it really, really easy. I remember just sitting around so much on this episode. Oh, really? And I seem to remember like Bevin and DeNeil like getting into some mission. it feels like they would have we were on a huge property yeah we were at orton and it was like just a massive property it was so beautiful but we were definitely like there was a lot to do

on off time lots of places to wander and explore that's that we're like stray cats too they're like what's around this corner oh look there's the river I'm gonna walk to it you know is it it makes me uncomfortable though to look back and know where we were filming well and I know listen we were like We were in a very small town in the old south. Every old house we shot in had conflicted history. Yeah, and like there weren't really, it's not like we were somewhere like New York where there's a million locations.

Like, there's not a lot of places to go, but I don't know. It just makes me feel. Well, the place where we had Dan's funeral. That was a old home. Remember like the fake dream funeral? That was an old home with some conflicted history. We ended up shooting in a lot of places that were places where we wouldn't necessarily go today because plantation culture is gross, you know, and it's gross to put a shiny gloss on it.

And so I think our show was more enamored with the fact that Fire Starter filmed there. The first big movie that came to Wilmington was Fire Starter with Drew Barrymore. And it shot there. She was a little. She was a baby. And that was when people were like, oh, this town has some neat elements. We should do more here. So that was more the nod, I think, our show was making.

What I will say is uncomfortable as it is, and for as many things as they failed at, I do appreciate that given the constraints of just what was available and that we did end up there, I do appreciate that the powers that be filmed, 98% of what you saw was just in the garden. Yeah. We didn't do it. We didn't like highlight the columns. The columns and the actual structure of it.

And I don't know. I don't have an answer. I'm just, I just feel that like feeling when we talk about it. Well, because we wouldn't go back. Yeah. I remember getting lost back there. There's like all these abandoned buildings in those woods because I shot a couple things there.

yeah there's a lot there's so much on that property it's wild it's wild it's like a lake in the middle of yeah yeah it's huge i think the only other i mean airly is how big was airily gardens that at a lake too didn't yeah that was also massive and didn't that used to be the jones's property it was like airily and landfall and then this is a fun little tidbit for you guys at home the phrase this is what i've been told i believe it's true um the phrase keeping up with the Joneses, literally came from this family who was like the wealthiest family. One of the wealthiest families. In Wilmington? And it was in Wilmington called the Joneses. And they owned. Didn't they build the Biltmore? Yeah, probably. Yeah, it was Pembroke Jones.

Pembroke Jones. That's right. That's right. And they had this massive, massive, massive property in Wilmington that has now been split up into airily gardens and landfall and the golf course and all this other stuff. But that was all the Joneses property. So you wanted to keep up with the Joneses. I love that Sophia noticed that the reception was over and it was still daylight outside. Yeah, that felt sad. Well, no, it felt like the budget of high schoolers where it's like, you know, when you're buying the wedding packages and you're like, am I going to get the full bar that goes till 2 a.m.?

I'm going to do the brunch wedding. That's right. This is cost effective, man. And you get your friend mouth to be the DJ. I loved it. The astro turf inside that tent? Astro turf and the tent. Everything was purple.

Guys, why did our set designers like purple? so much. Even Lee Norris's tie. Him and the DJ group with those big headphones on. His tie was like gray and purple and lavender stripes. Wow. They really were obsessed with purple. It was purple and red and white.

That was it. Well, maybe that was like they were given that note by the studio or something. Like keep the look. These are the color schemes. What we like for this show? Keep it. What are the color schemes for other shows? What we need is like a Pinterest mood board palette. I'm sure Sophia can

coordinate that. Yeah. I feel like Dawson's Creek was like yellows and greens and oranges. The orange I was going to say. Yeah. Orange. We based everything for Good Sam on like a really beautiful like peacock teal and a copper. Those were our base colors and we evolved every sad of that.

And it was pretty. I feel like my husband's show is just kind of like brown. yeah it's just muddy that's what I think of when I think of Walking Dead just dirty it's brown and gray brown and blood

it's your color palette it's brown it's like a it's like a Kormick McCarthy novel come to life but that's it when you think about the color palettes

of your shows that's an interesting I never thought to decorate my home in like my favorite color palettes from TV shows I'm gonna fall down

that rabbit hole later today I bet it exists the internet's vast yeah there's an account that I follow on Instagram that does the Pantone breakdowns of films. Yeah, that's exactly enjoyable. It is my favorite.

Like, Wes Anderson, Pantone. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to

become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition.

alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok, from Prologue Projects. and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's talk about Rachel and Cooper. Danielle was so good. She was really good. She was really good. My God. Wow.

Well, she was good. Like. I'm being sloppy too because we've all been hurt the mad girl like I've acted out believe it or not it's interesting because she

we've been saying about Rachel that she sort of had this bird's eye view of everything that she seemed so unbothered by so many things especially by Brooke it just was like she was so easy to shrug things off so it's interesting to see this character all of a sudden just we found her Achilles heel.

Yeah, it's a boy. But it's an older guy. I don't know, it's really, I don't know, it was interesting to me. Well, it's the value that that attention gives you. And she did so badly just want to be older and out of high school and over at all. I mean, Rachel. And to be loved by a trophy guy, you know, Rachel has this storyline. that she built herself into a trophy girl.

That's right. To feel like she was worthy. She had a term that she used, right? With mouth or no, with Jimmy Edwards. Oh, the elite girls. She made herself an elite girl, guys. And, you know, the NASCAR superstar, that's a pretty elite guy. And she, I think there is that thing of wanting to be worthy.

and she really brought that Rachel backstory into this storyline in a way as an actor that was so beautiful and you could see the hurt and the rage and that sort of anger and that acting out it's just a mask for your wound. Yeah. And to see her act out first

and then kind of drop the mask and be this heartbroken girl. Yeah. The little girl thing is really jarring. To see Ray, like she wants to see. She's really acting like a little girl. She's a little kid. Yeah.

A little, like a puffy little face. Her makeup was splotchy, so she just looked so young and sad and scared. Yeah. Wait, what do we think she was going to tell Cooper? I think she said she's pregnant. Surely not all the girls made that announcement on the same day. Wait, hold of the phone. Brooke was worried.

Karen is pregnant. Haley, I think, is also pregnant. Yeah, I think Haley's pregnant, but won't, isn't this, isn't this going to be when Brooke kind of takes the fall for Haley being pregnant for a little bit? I guess so. Remember? That happened? Oh, yeah.

Oh, you guys weren't talking to me at that point because we really still, doesn't love Payton anymore. We really stole storylines from friends. We did? That's a total, yes, when Rachel's pregnant and Monica takes the hit for her. her for like two or three episodes oh i missed that season i think well apparently the writer's room didn't well also there's just only so many things people can do yeah like you're when you get pregnant you either tell people or you don't you're as a girl you're either pregnant or you're not we need a mash one of those little mash like paper things oh yeah so we're pregnant not pregnant

yeah tell don't tell single partnered You know, I don't know. There's like not that many things that happened to everybody. So I kind of get it. But I didn't know that they did that on Friends. Yeah. Anyway, so that might be coming up. So we copied their poster and then we copied their story.

That's right. I love the accuracy, though, of showing how fucking stressed out everyone was behind the scenes of this wedding because everyone wants it to be so perfect for Nathan and Haley. But meanwhile, all the friends are imploding. And so that walked down the aisle where everyone is faking smiles. And Deb is like, I hate you so much.

Like, working pain and you're talking shit to each other. Like, everyone is making it. And I have been at those weddings where people are just like, this sucks, huh? Okay, cool. How are we going to get out of here? There's like, you know, there's so much work to do. And when you are close to the bride and groom, you want to be the people that do it, that like show up and do it.

So I've been at weddings where I've done all the hair and makeup or done the flower arrangements, done whatever. And you end up looking like shit at the wedding. and you're so tired at the ceremony and you're just like let's get this over just say your thing yeah we all know you love each other

go ahead okay we're done now we're so happy for you we're also so tired we're so tired yeah it's true that I think has been the greatest lesson for me of this stage we're in as grownups is making sure if you

ask people to come to something they don't have to work because all All of our friends are helpers. Like, that's what we do. We jump in and go, what do you need? Let me get it. I got that.

Hold on. Let me get the bag. And I'll do the thing. And I'll run around the corner to those store to get you the tights, whatever it is. And God, when you can invite people to something and be like, for real, all you have to do is drink a glass of wine. Yeah. Enjoy. Like, that is the marker for me of adulthood.

Yeah. We're not doing a school project right now. friends. Drink your wine. Well, speaking of helping out, how about Dan starting out by tying Lucas's tie? Ew. That was so gross. And I was also confused by Dan in this episode. Well, like, the way he wanted to father Lucas in that moment to be parental.

Yeah. And then the way that he went to Karen and hugged her. Oh, I hated it. I had a totally opposite reaction. What? Oh my God. It made me so uncomfortable. I was so upset when you touched her.

I know. You guys were like grossed out. I think I was like I was looking at Paul's face and seeing how remorseful. Dan was. No, I know. I know. I know. Dan, you know, he does it.

And then he takes it back. And then he does crazy things. And then he apologizes. I mean, that's just his habit. We know he's like. nut. But I think as a single mom having done all that work myself, the idea of hearing that from the one person who never, you know, would have said, Dan never, ever said that to Karen. And the idea that he would have taken a moment to say, I never apologized for how I treated you.

and the way you could tell he was actually really wrought. And I know he's a narcissist. I know he's a nut, but that moment meant something to me as a single mom. I was like, wow, to hear that from the one person who never did or would never say that, it's like, oh my God, that's so meaningful. And I understood exactly why she confessed

that she was pregnant in that moment, like knowing they're his. history knowing like everything that they've it's it's you once you're tied in so tightly with someone the good and the battle kind of come out at the same time sometimes I think um it I didn't I and I understood his instinct to want to care and her instinct to go to him it wasn't like she actually trusted him it I didn't feel that she was by letting him hug her or by accepting that moment of safety from him it didn't feel like she was like okay now forever we're friends and you can take care of my baby no

no, no. But there was a, it was like a peacemaking moment. And I just appreciated the moment of like two people who really, really had so much awful things passed between them to have a moment of peace. I guess. And it's interesting to hear the way you say it. Because yes, there are things I have experienced where I would love somebody to say, wow, I'm really sorry. Like that would be so nice but not like validating not like oh finally they said it it's like it's just you hunger for that sort of like well but that's what i mean like it would be nice to to receive that yeah yeah i'm not waiting for it but but once you said it i went yeah that would actually be really interesting i think what gave me that like creepy crawley feeling was he was so clearly in this moment

of realization of his own monstrous behavior and it just comes comes out because he is speaking about Keith with sadness. She doesn't know why, obviously. And I don't know. He's so desperate for to be redeemed. Sure, but I guess to me, it felt like he, he wanted, he wanted to be the good guy or like, oh, I don't know. Oh, really? Yeah.

For me, our boss, the two sides to that coin, our half of him was mouth. and half of him was Dan Scott and he was processing his own ego bullshit through those two characters and so he's the Dan Scott of my life where it's like I'm going to pretend to be your friend I'm going to be your mentor I'm going to do all the things for you

because I believe in you and you're so special and then you don't you ever you know like that attitude and so when I see Dan doing that my reaction is oh I never want an apology you stay as far the fuck away from me as humanly possible for eternity.

Yeah. I am scorched earth. I get that. Don't even come up here. I totally get that. Yeah. And so it's, well, but it's different because it is ultimately for his own ego. Like even though it was sincere in the moment and he was desperate for redemption, he's

looking for it from the wrong place. Sure. Well, and he's only desperate for redemption. So he can feel good about himself. Yeah. But isn't it crazy? He took his anger out on the wrong person. Yeah.

All of our personal experiences. color what we see three totally different ways. Of course. And, you know, for the audience of whatever, two million kids a week that were watching the show, who were they envisioning their teacher, their parent, you know, like their partner, whatever. Like, I was, I got emotional.

I was watching that scene and there was, like, I instantly got emotional. And you guys were like, I got so nauseous. I'm still nauseous. is my chest red? Like it wasn't the opposite. That was my favorite. I loved that scene between the two of you going to Brooke and Payton in the bedroom because I loved, even though it was a little extra.

I mean, that drama was so. Like, if I had slept with her husband and they had four children, yes, let's go there. But Lucas Scott, who we didn't even talk to in school last year. We literally didn't even talk to this boy. But your chest got so red. It's so funny that you were, I love seeing that. Well, yeah, because also there was this sense when they were writing all of the Peyton Brooke breakup stuff that like we've done all this work to get over the competition to get over

the team Brooke, team Peyton of it all. And to know it was all falling apart, it felt physically bad. It really like, you know when your body chemicals are doing stuff when you're acting and you're like, I have zero control over that. It just feels toxic and kind of like acidic in your throat. And that was my reaction to all the Brooke Peyton having to fight shit. And so like I knew Sophia's laughing me. Like it was upsetting.

It was awful. And I liked that Peyton's reaction was like, I'm not going to react. I'm not going to react. I'm not going to react. I love you. I'm going to love you through this. And then it's like not working. And she finally reached her threshold.

It's how I work with my kids. Like my kids are farting around. I'm like, I'm going to let you have this moment. Okay, you slam the door. You can, okay. You're going to throw hands? We're going to throw hands. That's what we're going to do.

How long is this going to go on? Like, is there a clock on it? And then finally you hit your point where you're like, now I have to, now we're done. Now I'm an asshole. Yeah. Yeah. But that's important to parenting. Kids have to know where their limit is.

Yeah, yeah. That's part of the great thing about being a parent is that you're the safe place that the kids can go crazy, but they know that there will be a wall that they hit. and it's a boundary that feels safe. So they know what the rules are. Yeah. I wanted to be soft and gentle like a parent with Brooke. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories,

such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok, from Prologue Projects. and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But here's the thing. Okay, all right, we need to clean this up, though, because the audience has been giving me shit about this for so long. They're all like, I can't believe you would tell broke your feelings for love because I'm like, yeah. because last time when Peyton didn't she got in trouble for that. So please.

Yeah, for the love of God. Someone tell me what Peyton was supposed to do. Yeah, for real. Here's the thing. What it is, it's not actually that they're mad that you, that Peyton told Brooke, which by the way, it's not that they're mad that Peyton told Brooke.

It's that they're mad at the situation. Somebody being in love with their best friend's boyfriend, that's a shitty situation. Even when she liked him first? But. Ooh. but you have but she said she didn't brook asked many times and Peyton said she didn't and that's the crux here Peyton was like no I don't know I don't know I don't and but this is it

right people could see it she didn't say it I asked but I couldn't see it so everybody's right and everybody's wrong yeah but I think what what we really need to come to terms with is that somebody being in love with their best friend's partner is a shitty situation. You don't have a good option and a bad option. You have a bad option

and a worse option. So lying about it and Kiss and Lucas behind Brooke's back, worse option. Telling Brooke you're in love with her boyfriend, bad option. But it's the better of the two options. So people need to stop saying,

well, why would Peyton tell her? It's like, well, because at least she's being fucking honest. Yeah, because what? else are you supposed to do like you can't live your life hanging out with your best friend and her boyfriend who you're in love with and then you're like never quite yourself and at the end of the day you're either going to start distancing yourself from your friend yeah because you just can't keep being around them and then your friend's going to feel like why did I lose my best friend yeah

why you being a weird like at least I mean I think you did exactly the right thing I think yeah what else was just Peyton supposed to do yeah it's it's really weird to me when people want characters to be perfect but they also watch their favorite characters for the drama they watch for the conflict they watch for the modeling of conflict resolution

and it's like life is super messy you know every single one of us has had our hearts completely broken by someone and we've broken hearts who us who never You know, it's it. You're never going to get through life without being wounded or without wounding someone else.

The whole point is, how are you going to learn to show up, to be honest, to have grace for other people, to learn to have grace for yourself, to be a good friend, and to get through the mess with any measure of honesty. Yeah. I'm just realizing that at our eighth grade dance, I was Peyton Sawyer. This is horrible. What did you do? I was in love with this boy since kindergarten. Talk about him all the time.

And he wanted to date my friend. And I wanted him to date my friend. Like I wanted to be noble, like Peyton wanted to be noble. So I talked myself in to going out with his best friend. Went out with his best friend, John. And we were going to go to the school dance. I got to the school dance. John was wearing a new outfit.

And I was sick to my stomach. because I was like, I don't really like this guy. I'm just trying to like who everyone told me to like. And is that what Peyton's doing with like, like it'd be easier for everyone if I was just with Pete or with Jake. Like Jake's great, but like it'll be easier for everyone if I picked someone no one wants to compete with. Yeah. I feel that way about Peyton and Pete for sure.

I still feel like Peyton and Jake really had it, but then we lost Brian Greenberg to another job. And we had to pretend that Peyton didn't love Jake. Yeah. You know what I want for Peyton? Someone not from Tree Hill. Like, is there someone from New York City? Is there someone from the O.C?

You want somebody from Dawson's Creek. That'd be fun. Yeah. Is there someone who didn't grow up along that riverbank? Yeah. Somebody. It's important. Like the grown-up version of a foreign exchange student.

That's who Peyton needs. to be with. Yeah. Somebody who came from another country speaks a couple of the languages. She'll get a passport

out of the second marriage. It's like Lucas is her lorry but she really needs to find her what's his name Frederick? Who was the guy Joe married? Oh yes. The hot older guy. Yeah.

Okay. Right? I mean, that's my vibe. Yeah. Whatever, man. Sometimes you've got to take from life and turn it into art. Fine.

So what else didn't we hit on this episode? I mean, well, You're a scene with Lucas where you're like, why don't you ever let me all the way in? Sophia, there's a reason the fans post gifts of that and like put it up all the time.

That was brutal. It was so sad. I loved it. I loved it. That was one of the best pieces of writing they had given me in three years. Like I read that and thought, oh, I know, I know this.

This is important. Like, this isn't something I have to figure out how to be okay with doing. Yeah. You know, or like, fight to make it better. I was like, no, this is true. This is like a true human experience. And, yeah, I loved that scene. What's so weird is that we have this episode about high schoolers getting married,

so trying to act like grownups. But we see so many of our beloved high school girls acting like really little girls. Rook is a little girl in this episode, and Rachel is a little girl in this episode. Yeah. And so it's, I don't know, that duality is kind of weird. It's like we've got babies getting married against the backdrop of babies crying. Yeah. Sad.

And it's interesting because it is, there's an innocence to it and a desperation to be seen and loved and, you know, held and to feel safe. but I also think there's an inverse that is so mature to say I see you and you don't see me you tell me how you feel but you don't act like it with me and I know the difference I'm smart enough to know the difference yeah and I think there's something there you know we've talked a lot as we've been on tour about what the turning points have been for our characters and I I think about Brooke starting her business and beginning to stop letting boys define her as such a turning point. But I realize that even that scene between Brooke and Lucas is a turning point for her because she says, you tell me that you missed me, but you didn't call.

You know, you say you needed to be alone, but I was going through this too and you didn't care. and she's beginning to really assert that she deserves to be respected and included and acknowledged and being included's a big thing like especially when you're you're dating someone you're kind of insecure about you know if they talk to their friends about you you know if they like boys are so dumb about that stuff though they don't know like how to they're not emotionally intelligent generally i think that's a cop out i think that whole thing like boys mature slower than girls. I'm like, or maybe they're just...

I don't think it has to do with maturing slower. No, I think their brains are just, they just think differently. They're wired differently. So they don't think about, like, we are narratives. We're storytellers. We have a lot of this emotional connection instinct. And that's, again, like tribal from many, many, many, many years ago.

As the mother of a boy, it's an evolutionary thing because there's no one more sensitive than my sweet son. There was no one with a more, like, feminist, let's talk about our feelings, mother, than my sweet son. One of his best friends, a female, gave him this whole speech about, you know, this pandemic was really hard, and I just want you to know you're my best friend, and I love you, and like, you're, like, thank you for being safe for me. And my son looked at her and said, cool, and walked away. Yeah. And her mother called me and was like, you're not going to believe what your boy did.

And it's because he just, his brain couldn't understand the words. and didn't know how to reciprocate. Or he probably just received it all and he was like, awesome. That means a lot. I feel the same. Cool. Cool. Cool.

He said cool. The boys don't, they're not like, they just don't know how to. It's not. No, but that's where there's a, you have to learn each other's love language. You have to learn, like, what is, how do I communicate with this person in a way that is a little outside of my comfort zone, but I know will be meaningful for them. I think I should be more like that. I should talk less and just be like, cool.

Cool. Yeah. That's what Brooke should have said. When Lucas came after her, we should have just turned around and been like, hey, cool. We're done. With the hand. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. Cool. Cool. Um, we have fun in our hotel room. I love that hotel, by the way. Oh, guys, I just loved. I, I really would like to say thank you to the nice folks at the Omni because having a bunch of adults say, can you please put us in rooms all

side by side or all at the end of a hallway? With connecting doors. Yeah, it was probably so annoying and they did it for us. And we got to just run around in those fluffy. hotel robes and like running and out of each other's rooms and four different cities and those hotels how about that Boston one though Boston was amazing that was the coolest bathtub I think I've ever been in in a hotel room I took so many pictures of that bathroom the art the artwork when you walk in yeah no I loved it and I will say shout out to the folks at the Omni in DC because I think by then they'd been watching our Instagram stories and realized we're a group who loves shenanigans and they put a bottle of champagne in each of our

our rooms. And a little notes. And we got there and we were like, oh, you know who we are by the third city. Don't you? And it was very sweet. It was like they decorated the lobby of the New York Omni for us. It was like a drama queen set with like the chandeliers and all the flowers and all the and things. And there was not one person that batted an eye when we were shooting content in the lobby because they're like in robes and selfie dresses. They're like, of course these girls are here. Yeah. Of course. Where else would we be? They were great. Thank you guys. All right.

We're spinning a wheel. We have most likely to eat something off the ground. Me. It's definitely you, too. Yeah. It's us. I mean, it's got to be clean. Like, I won't eat something off a really, like an obviously dirty floor.

You would. No. Are you sure? Yes. I feel like I've heard you say, like, 12-second rule before. Yeah, but if it's a floor that is clean, it's not like a, I mean, if I just, I mean, if I just I don't know if you're a restaurant, I'm not touching it. Yeah.

Or like... What you're cut off? Like airport? No, yeah, airport, no way. No, like a public place where there's a lot of foot traffic, I don't know. There's no way. See, that depends on me on what is it made of. Like, if I'm...

Porous, not porous. Yeah. Like, if we were, for example, walking down the hallway and I had like those peanut butter pretzels and I dropped them, I'd pick them up and eat them off before. I don't care. Yes. But I'm not going to like, I'm not going to drop. sliced apples on the ground like they're wet they're gonna pick up something that's enough lint if it can

pick up lint no yeah it's a pass got to have a hard shell like an emma now agree yeah all right well i'm glad we have our boundaries now yeah we're all cleared up oh guys thank you so much for joining us for this finale episode we can't wait to start season four with all of you i'm excited to see season four there's so many new things coming up yeah we're flying through stuff yep absolutely uh guys our next episode is going to be the premiere of season four. It is called The Same Deepwater as You. And I have a feeling we're going to pick up in a limo in the river. Well, something tells me.

Something tells me. Can't wait. See you then. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

We're all about that high school Drama Girl, Drama Girl All about them high school queens We'll take you for a ride And our comic girl Cheering for the right team Drama Queen's smart girl rough girl Fashion but you're tough girl

You could sit with us girl Drama Queen drama queens drama queens Drama queens drama queens drama queens Drama queens It may look different But Native culture is alive My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges

we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.