Drama Queens - Take Me to the Pilot • EP101

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

Hilarie, Sophia, and Bethany Joy are flooded with emotion and surprised by their own reactions as they rewatch the pilot for the first time in almost twenty years.  It’s not unheard of to forget your lines but an alligator crawling on to the set was something Hilarie was not prepared for.Crushes are significant but this crush that all three bond over will shock you.Hilarie and Sophia reminisce fondly about celebrating their 21st Birthdays together in Wilmington as One Tree Hill was about to change all their lives. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Welcome back.

We ended last week with champagne. We're kicking off this week with the rest of the bottle of champagne. So this is the recap of episode one, the pilot, air date September 23rd, 2003. OTH day. I didn't realize like Jersey number 23. And then we aired in the 2030 of 2003. What? That's weird.

Just like Illuminati. Did they do that on purpose? They must have done that on purpose. I don't think so. I think that was Michael Jordan's number? Yeah. Oh, wow. So the synopsis is, here we go.

Nathan Scott is Tree Hill High's biggest basketball star, and he's dating Peyton, a cheerleader. Ew. And so much more. Nathan's half-brother Lucas joins the team and threatens to take both Nathan's spot in the lineup and his girl. As if. I feel like I was nobody's girl. I belong to myself. I was my own.

So grumpy. I have to perhaps start in an unconventional place, but we've all just watched the pilot for the first time since 2003. Oh, my God, Craig Schaeffer is so hot. I told you. I told you, I knew I could spot it from a mile away. I was like, mm-mm. I was in love with him.

I was late on the pickup with that because I was like, well, he's playing one of the grownups. I was like, he's a grown-up, but you were like, no, no, ladies. You had no time for the young dudes. No, not at all. I had no time we're patience. You were wise beyond your year's joy. Yeah, he was like muslin, and his jeans were tight. Like, yeah.

Let's talk about the denim. Yes. Oh, God. In this first episode. Wow, this baggy denim. The cuts of jeans on the men. Yeah. I mean, also on us.

I love my jeans. I don't know what you guys are talking about. Like, I've been wearing flares consistently, whether they're cool or not cool. Flares are pretty fabulous, but it's more the, um, the rise or the lack thereof, that I'm concerned with. Hip-huggers. They were just, like, were the zippers two and a half inches long?

Three inches? Just like just above your pubic hair. Like, just barely. Oh, God. Ew. We blame Britney Spears for this. She really, yeah, she ruined it for the rest of us. But I also feel like,

because we were in Wilmington, North Carolina, our shopping options were not what they were in New York or Los Angeles. So we were dealing with, like, being six months behind any cool kid curve. But I have to say there's a part of that that work to our advantage because most people don't have access to like the, you know, it's, I mean, that's if you live in the city and that's a priority for you and that's fun and it's a great way to express yourself. But there are a lot of people who just, that's not a priority.

And so I think there's a relatability in that as well. We looked like regular kids. At the time, OC had come on the air over the summer and had blown up. and it was all about rich kids. And so that was our competition. But that was a fantasy element, you know. They were so fancy. Yeah.

Yeah. We were Gap, Old Navy. Dillards. Mall kids. Yeah. God bless that hot topic. I love that, though. It's so relatable.

I think that's one of the major things that the fact that we were relatable in that way that kept the show on the air for so long, that we weren't just a fantasy element of, oh, murder. an intrigue and, you know, parents all sleeping with each other and everything. I mean, that didn't happen on our show until at least, like, season five. What does Barbara start rolling around with chef? I remember that being so.

Yeah. Antoine. Oh, my God. No, there's so many things that I never noticed about the show until we just rewatched it. Yeah. Like, the grooming. The grooming. The grooming between Paul and James.

They have the same hair. Yep. And then Chad and Chef. Like the same hair. Yeah. Same hair. Guys, when we refer to chef, we're talking about Craig Sheffer, who played Uncle Keith. And yeah, like, there's a, we just watched the scene where they're in Keith's body shop.

And Keith and Lucas have the same hair. And we just never knew. Never noticed. I never clocked it. Never clocked. Speaking of hair, Joy and I have very, joy and I would look like sisters if we were groomed. Yeah, because when I showed up in Wilmington, I had curly blonde hair. And they took one look at me and, yeah, that's not going to work.

No. So what did, like, how quickly did they make that decision? Oh, it was like within, I'm sure they had made the decision probably before I showed up. I mean, when I tested, I was blonde. And then they just probably figured out they'd just die it as soon as I got there, which they did. But did they because, you that, though? I had a feeling with, I mean, I'd seen the pilot. I knew they wouldn't let us look exactly like.

And I was game for it. In fact, actually, I was super excited about playing this character. And I thought, like, maybe I'll get bobby pins and stick them in my hair so that my ears will stick out. So I'll look like, I just wanted to add this element of like awkwardness to her. I think God, I didn't do that because can you imagine like 10, 10 years? Yeah, nine years of Bobby Pins sticking in. The ear tuck episode would have had to happen. You're like, guys, I can't do this anymore.

Yeah. You're like, I have a headache all the time. Yeah, but the hair was a deal because I didn't straighten it a lot. And back then there were less tools and advances and knowing how to handle curly hair and make it straight in the south in the humidity. And so I ended up with this very flat top, wide-bottomed hair that was kind of a strange color. But it's all right, you know. But your hair, I feel like, I mean, we'll see as the episodes go on.

I feel like you had like three different hair colors season one because they kept dying it and dying it and dying it. And it was like an evolution of hair. And I was trying to like, it was also weird like because we didn't all want to look alike. And I didn't want to like compete with you because you were the blue. blonde one but I also like was naturally blonde and so it looked good on my skin tone to lean lighter in that way and then we like then there was a time when we totally you went really platinum and then I went blonde yeah but I mean I was a I wish I had just stayed the same color honestly like you were red for a minute too red yeah oh god I dyed my hair every color in the

book you were super black at one point too like dark dark hair well I had dyed my hair black in the summer between seasons two and three oh because you're on the whole I died by hair black and I cut bangs and I remember even lightning it when I came back it was so much darker than it had been and our boss who shall not be named lost his marbles that I'd cut bangs because he was like all the cheerleaders you never paid me the time of day in high school all had bangs and they were bitches and it was like it was that funny moment because we you know we were just talking watching the pilot about how our hair was kind of this battle.

Well, but not to bring back Felicity, but that's because of that. Yeah. Yeah. When she cut off all her hair, they went crazy. Kids in home might not know about that. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So there's, you know, there's a great show called Felicity.

If you haven't gone back and watched it, you really should. Carrie Russell is an icon. Just a dynamite actress. But she had this, you know, big, beautiful, long, curly blonde hair, blondeish brown hair. And she went away one season and cut it off. And, you know, Michelle Williams did the same thing, actually, in Dawson. She'd just chopped it all off. But it wasn't, her hair wasn't an eye, its own image.

Yeah, I mean, Carrie's hair was like, it was an image that was instantly recognizable. Nobody else in TV had hair like this. So when she chopped it all off without letting anybody know, everybody kind of went crazy. And the show's ratings actually dropped. And they connected it to her hair being cut off. Which is ridiculous. It was like in his fifth season. Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, for whatever reason, the ratings dropped and it happened to be the same time. Heaven forbid the writers admit they'd got them. They'll just blame the actress in her hair. That's right. So, yeah, so then from that point forward, everybody was trying to do recon and put into every actresses. There was like a hair clause in the contracts or something, right? I feel like there's a whole vice president at a network that's just in charge of actresses' hair. Like, the boys can do whatever the hell they want to do.

But it was a massive battle about hair every episode. And for us, curls, flyaways. Oh, yeah. You can't do anything. And it had to be down, down, sexy down. Approvals. Take the Polaroid. Send it off to L.A.

sure they approve this hairstyle. Yeah, it was so crazy. And Hillary, you pointed out so wisely that, you know, watching the pilot, you'd been fighting to get ponytails for the girls at cheer practice. So now looking back at it, the stuff that I was fighting about right out of the gates, like the audacity of a 20-year-old kid to be like, hi, um, you're wrong. I feel like I can go on to a set today and assert myself. But the idea that I was doing that as a child, I'm mortified. And about hair. Like, nobody had taught us how to pick and choose our battles. Like, which ones do you fight for? But also the irony is that at 20, you had been a cheerleader two years before. So you were like, no, cheerleaders are athletes. When I didn't want like stunts. Cheerleaders to make fun of us.

Like, God forbid. The real cheerleaders out there be like, oh, these fake TV cheerleaders. So I was adamant that, like, there was accuracy. Okay, well, this is a good segue because getting away from hair, because, you know, we can only talk about that for so. But like, speaking of hair and speaking of being a cheerleader, there, you know, Lucas asks Peyton a great question in the pilot. He says, why are you a cheerleader? You're the least cheery person I know. And I did always kind of wonder why Peyton was a cheerleader. What do you think?

I think that's why we needed Brooke. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, I remember having like an internal struggle, my real senior year in high school where I didn't like what cheerleading stood for. Like I didn't like being in the passive role of cheering on someone else. But all my best friends did it, you know? And it was like a way for us to hang out after school, go on trips together. You know, it was a thing that connected us and I could make fun of it because I was one of them.

You can't make fun of a cheerleader when you're not a cheerleader and not sound like a total asshole. I mean, I guess other people do, but you should know you're an asshole. So it made a lot of sense for me for Brooke to be introduced Because she was the anchor for Peyton It was like if my mom's dead and I'm a nightmare And the one person in my life I can rely on does this dumb thing Yeah I guess I'll do this dumb thing too

Yeah But when we shot the pilot You weren't there yet Yeah And so I had to go over to a high school In Wilmington And you know I'm like a 20 year old VJ You know

and it's like all these real 15 and 16 year olds and they're like okay so just hang out with these girls after school and so part of me felt like a predator I was like what am I doing hanging out with these children you know um but like in the pilot that was a real high school cheerleading squad that was local for the area I'd love to know what those girls are doing now like how weird it must be for them to see their childhood experience like played out on TV like Bevin grew up in Wilmington yeah she kind of had a tap on it but yeah was that anyone's childhood experience though like what we just saw is that i mean obviously we know it's heightened for television but i'm trying to imagine well in my high school

that something like that actually yeah i mean i don't feel like the the experience i don't think i mean who knows we did say during the the viewing that we were like god we all thought it was so scandalous that there is this idea that this guy would have knocked up two women and would have two kids and now we're like people have whole other families We didn't know. Now that I know grownups, I'm like, grownups are so messy. But it's funny because at the time, we were like, this is so crazy. But I also think there is that real element of when you are in high school, it is your whole world.

And the stakes feel so high. The stakes are so high because that's the entire scope of your universe and your experience. So I almost feel like the stakes of the rivalry and who gets to play on the sports team. it they felt high they were dramatized because really you know when you're young you're just like i want to fit in and i want to belong and i want my family to be okay and i don't know it's pretty real for a lot of people stakes still felt high for us at 20 being on that set oh my god not that far out of high school so you mean those hormones and those emotions and the feeling of everything being really big i mean you were talking about buying your first car you know well and i had gone to a really big sports

high school like parkview high school went to states and football and we were like machines and and so we went to states and cheered and had those big huge moments so for me i felt like i knew it better than the adults who were writing about it because i was like guys i was literally just here you know like i know what this looks like um and i think that's why i was so like bossy about it but nobody was like that good looking do you know what i like yeah like for me the hard part was the beauty element of it because i look back at pictures of real high school and we should definitely post our real high school pictures oh yeah oh yeah because it wasn't cute like had the eyebrows those 90s eyebrows guys were super crunchy hair you know the year i thought

i could have a bob and learned that that's a real bad haircut on me my junior year in high school you're cute no junior year in high school it i'll show i it's a picture so bad i'll show the two of you i don't know if it was it like split down the middle yeah and like chunky highlights yes oh wow like robin over plucked like didn't know what to say did you like twist it back with the butterfly oh i did that in middle school for sure good god no dude yeah it all comes back to hair man There's such identity in it. It was one of the few things that we felt like we could control as the girls because we couldn't control what we said.

We couldn't control like what we were wearing necessarily. What our characters had to do? I mean, that moment for you in the pilot. Okay. So yeah, when we were watching the pilot, there's a scene where Peyton comes out of the bathroom after Nathan and is like, hi, Mr. Scott. And so when we, when I first got the job, it was called Ravens. We've talked about this.

And the arc throughout everything was narrated by Barry Corbyn, by Whitey. And he was describing everything that happened in the town to his dead wife, Camilla. And that was... Which we didn't find out was dead until the end of the pilot. Oh, you're totally right. That's right. But that was the tone. It was like a really sweet, you know, like small town, awshucks kind of show.

But they were trying to capitalize on the popularity. of eight mile and they wanted it to be like an all shucks town but with this eight mile underbelly of the kid from the wrong side of the tracks never in any of that was there a sexy element right and so I felt totally safe just being like okay yeah I'll go and be the cranky girl so then when the OC got popular and we had to turn up the sexy it was like a bait and switch yeah do we get a say Like, do we get to have an opinion about it? And we didn't. We just had to turn up the sexy.

Which, like, thankfully, we're all really sexy. In our flat shoes and our, like, corduroy skirts. Oh, my God. That was hard for us as young women who were all, like, we were all relatively, like. Prudish? Yeah, demure in our, you know, in our activity. And so when we were to get into that environment and be, have to play. this, like, I don't know, older male idea of what a young teenage high school girl

could be in a dream world or maybe was, maybe. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much of that was that, how much of it was experience of girls that maybe they knew that, you know, we just weren't like or I just, I don't know. I don't know anybody who's having sex in high school. Oh, I did. Did you? I did, but like I also think it, for the people who were, it was really late and it was a big deal.

Yeah, yeah. Everybody was like, oh my God, no one was casual about it. No, I mean, my God, I, my very first boyfriend who I dated until I was a senior in high school was my best friend from summer camp since the age of nine. Oh. Like my sweet, sweet, like high school sweetheart who for years I was like, I'm still not ready. was like, it's okay. Like, just such a gentleman.

Like, a true gentleman. And it's funny to think, like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I dated three people by the time we got on our show. Yeah. Like, what? You would never casually come out of the shower in front of their parents. Out of the shower in front of your boyfriend's father? Like, how dare you be in the shower at your boyfriend's house in the first place?

No, I shower with my clothes on, in fact. I also just love I got to tell the listeners because it's a fun one to watch when you come out of said scene where Paul is really just ripping into James because he has by the way the one episode where James has a nipple ring that some makeup artist had to glue onto his chest

by the way gross and like the piercings are gross just like ew having a fake one glued on is gross and no one liked it and so they never referred to it again But you walk out of the bathroom and you wouldn't even look at the camera. No, they're like, can you cheat out? And I'm like, no, absolutely not.

Like, I'm mortified right now. I'm hoping this gets cut. Yeah, I'm mortified by this fake situation, so I'm not going to play it. Like, I still, as a married woman, couldn't do that. Just like traips by in my towel in front of my father-in-law. Like, oh, yeah, no, so pleasant. No, I would never. Yeah.

Ew-sick, ew. In front of you guys. like in-laws? Oh my God. It makes me feel so small and hot with shame. Meanwhile, also like, like looking back on it, Paul was also a viable option. Like, Paul's the same age as my husband. And so like the whole element of like traipsing around like semi-dressed was just so loaded and weird. And I remember that feeling of I was never allowed to watch these shows growing up. And here I am like right smack dab in the middle. middle of it and this one's potentially worse than what I wasn't allowed to watch as a heroine too you're the you're the you're the one that we're watching and like you know well I was

pretty much off the bat the second the first episode aired and the reaction to Peyton was so bad because it really was the reaction to her was so we really oh yeah I didn't know that yeah they came they came to me and they're like they're like we're going to have to take you dark right and then you'll have a moral arc where you, you know, like, come back around and people understand why you're such an asshole. But that's kind of great, though. Like, as an actor, that's an...

I think that we understand that now. But back then, you know, you're like 20 and you're just like, please hate me. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. You know, like the chat boards. Remember the chat board? Yes.

Just pages and pages of... That's a hideous place. Judgment. It's so... People are so cruel. Yeah. And the irony that that... we clearly are not in control.

I mean, we did over the years have to go so hard in the paint for our characters. And when we would win a battle, it was really like winning a war. And there would be people online being like, can't believe you did that. It's like, well, I didn't want to. Mr. Jersey 0796. You, man. Like, God, do you think I chose this? I didn't choose this for me.

I did not choose this choice. And if they'd known how bad it was supposed to be and what we like reeled it back in to become. And so like that the new normal that this show created of like parents not being around, of like casual sexuality and stuff. It's something that I'm really happy we've been so open about with conventions and things like that

because I never wanted teenage girls to feel like they were behind the eight ball or that they were like missing out on something because I'm like, do you want to? to see pictures of 11th grade for real because yeah it wasn't that we thought for that a lot because we knew that we were we were speaking to a young audience and i was constantly having conversations about like young girls look up to me and i up to this character you know me as this character and i and i i'm nervous about a b or c because i don't want them to think that that's like normal

normal or okay or that they should be treated that way or that they should you know subject and i and you know the conversation between as an actor portraying a character and you want to show that the character has an arc so your character has to have flaws and they've got to learn things and go through things. So yes, you don't want to be perfect all the time, but you also, there was this sort of moral responsibility that we felt. And it was tough. That was really tough to navigate as a young woman. And I remember also the excitement of feeling our first sense of permission to be a little wild because like we you and I are you know Hillary and I is we turn 21. We turned 21 and we started working a week later filming. We were already in Wilmington.

It was really fun. It was so fun. But I remember that first night we went to level five, which was this cool bar on top of a theater and we ordered drinks and looked at each other like we had just gotten rid of murder. They were like, can we see your IDs? And we were like, yep. We were like, are they going to get rejected? Are they going to know they're real? And then they gave us cocktails and we looked at each other like, oh, my God, it worked. Yeah. It worked.

It was magic. And we had money to buy our own dreams. We could buy drinks. It was crazy. Yeah. It was, I mean, we didn't, I wish we'd had, like, phones with cameras at the time because all of the stuff. We'd have so many memories on our phone. Also, like, a lot of blackmail.

You know what it was? Yeah. It would be good. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner, in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving

to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Looking back at the show now, just watching it objectively, Joy, you were really good to point out, like, the structure of it is so good.

And there was nothing else like it on TV at the time, the parallels between what each boy is going through. The way they cut back and forth on the courts with the cars and the buses, the connection between the two older brothers. the two younger brothers how they that whole dynamic yeah i was really strong yeah there was a lot of wildlife in this episode joy got attacked by pigeons what was that's right there was an alligator in some scene it was in my scene what was your pigeon experience oh we had some guy out there with the pigeons train so that was a okay uh for those of you who don't know it's called that was called a steady shot it was a steady cam shot it was it was a oneer is what we call it because there's no coverage, which means the camera's not popping in on Chad's face and then my face to get each

of our lines. It's just one camera set up and we do the scene and we walk through and say our dialogue and when it's over, we're done. And by the way, baller for the steady cam operator, because what that means is that there's a guy wearing a camera strap to his chest walking backwards, looking in a monitor at you and Chad in a two shot that never cuts, never moves, has to be perfectly timed. And this man has to trust the guy who's dragging him by the the vest enough to just look at the two of you and walk backwards blindly. It's so hard. It's so hard. And it's got to be perfect. If one person, if somebody coughs or sneezes and doesn't make it work in the scene, you got to start all over again. So anyway. Or if the pigeons act up.

And so we're doing this oneer on the study cam. And we had the guy with the pigeons. And there was like always a thing. It just couldn't, we could never get it to work. And it was so frustrating. I don't know what they would fly in the wrong direction or like he'd open the cage. they'd just walk out like it was never anything right so finally it worked and then you know we continued on with the scene but yeah I had I had a that was my pigeon wildlife experience what was your I had the gator yeah my was it my first day it was either my first or second day but it was my first real day of like acting I may have done some like you know like extra work in a different scene but my first real day of acting was that roadside scene where my car

Car is broken down, and it's just Chad and I. And Chad had been on Gilmore Girls. He'd been on Dawson's. He'd done like a Haley Dolph movie or something or else. You know, like he'd done so much work. And so our director was a very big time director, Brian Gordon. And I knew he'd done some like HBO stuff. And he was a very big deal.

And I had not done a chemistry read with anyone. I hadn't tested. I had done this, you know, one little part on, Dawson's Creek. I had done, you know, my scene study classes in New York for the last two years, but mostly it was theater where you've got a really big space to move around and rehearsal time. Yeah. So Chad and I get called to set and I knew my lines coming and going, right? We go down there. They put us on these marks, which are like little, you know, pieces of tape and the shape of a cross. And they're like, hit this, don't you dare look at it. And

because the camera's pointed at you, you just have to feel it. Unless it's a wide shot, where there's like a little dot, the size of your half your fingernail. Yeah, they rip the tape tee off and they're like, see this little dot we left you? And you're like, in the grass? The green dot in the grass? It's smaller than my pinky nail. So they, everyone's like just like telling me all these things and no one realized I didn't

know the business at all, right? I didn't know how to hit a mark. I didn't know how to find my light. I didn't know any of this. And while we're in the midst of the very first rehearsal, a gator is swimming up to Chad and I, and no one is clocking it. Like, no one's saying a word. In the marsh. My gosh.

In the marsh right there in the water. And I'm like, hey, anybody, nobody, nobody, anybody? And I was distracted, right? Like, warranted. So we end rehearsal. I go to my trailer. I knew it was bad. Like, I knew it was a bad rehearsal because just the lingo they were using,

I kept having to ask, like, what are you talking about? Pulling focus? Like, what does that even mean? I had no idea. The director comes to my trailer. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I was like, yeah? He's like, I need to talk to you.

Oh. You didn't know your lines. Yes, I didn't know my lines. I knew my lines, but there was like a lot going on. You're like, there's an alligator. sir don't you ever waste my time or the cruise time again and i was like i cried and then i had to pull it together and like oh it was just like the worst scariest day but i never didn't know my lines again like my whole career it was a great note to get your very first day yeah even though you didn't

deserve it like for the record yeah i knew my lines i just had an alligator coming at me so but but interesting thing is that the requirement is you have to be unflappable yeah no matter what yeah and that's that's a hard skill to learn it was your first day no one but the thing is when you go onto a job no one realizes it's your first day because it's not their first day right they've been doing this for years like you're just welcome to the circus kid and so um it definitely set the tone for me of crew first always crew first be a team player don't ever waste anyone's time yeah um i think that probably plagued me a little bit the whole course of shooting because i was then i tried to overcompensate so i'd be like i'll advocate for every department you know like i'll fight your battles for you

because i'm on your team remember um but it all came down to that freaking gator wow i mean people die all the time in wilmington getting eaten by gators in Wilmington i didn't know that happened all the time yeah like greenfield lake yeah oh yeah well i know i never walked my dog down there yeah no there was a bad there were some bad stories about like i remember maybe maybe this has been created in my brain but i'm 99% sure that when we lived there there was a story about somebody walking their dog around greenfield lake and the dog got snatched oh yeah but the person's arm was in the leash no and so when the dog was getting rolled by the gate or the person walking it was also drowned and I was like well I'm never going there ever

I'm never going this is the mythology that's so fun about shooting in a small town because like you don't know I don't know but I heard it did oh my it was also just such a crazy thing because I remember you know you guys obviously shot the pilot you do pilots in the spring guys so like march usually yeah and so it's chilly still in Wilmington in March but then when we got there to start shooting properly enjoy when you had to shoot all your silent scenes, you know, do all those, those reshoots. It was July, you know, it's 100 degrees, it's 100% humidity, but you're shooting a show that's going to be airing on TV in September.

Oh, the sweaters. So you're wearing cashmere sweaters and leather jackets and they're like, could you stop sweating? You know, one of the camera guys, and you're like, I wish I could help you. I'm so sorry. No, and another thing to note is that our show was supposed to be a mid-season replacement. Yeah, January. That's right.

And that's why we were all dressed for winter because we were supposed to come on the air in January. And so we were filming in July. We had a six-month lead and another show got canned. And so they put us on the air right away in September. But that meant that we were filming an episode and then it would air like two or three weeks later. It was fast, yeah. So there was no way to adjust for like reaction, you know, to like, like crowd reaction and stuff like that we you know it was so um i just remember being so nervous

about Peyton because i was like everybody hates her everybody hates her i'm on set reading about how everyone hates her and like we're still in the midst of like being a big jerk you know oh man so it was yeah that was scary there was no promotion for the show it was all word of mouth and that was a crazy thing yeah because every week street cred man every week the viewership jumped ways that we all were like what's happening and when we first because obviously you you you ushered us inhale to the whole world of MTV and I will never forget when we went and did that first TRL and the people at MTV were like last time we had a crowd this big was for Eminem and we were like I mean Times Square was I've never seen a crowd like it and we were like this is for uh yeah I was

I was like having panicked I was sweating I was convinced that like one of others paid people to do it and now as an adult I'm like well no then every movie would have done that you know what I mean like yeah we didn't have those crowds for anybody else it was I didn't know that they were for us I just thought Times Square was packed and we pulled up and I got out and I was like man this is crazy what is going on and I got out and I saw somebody in the in the immediate crowd surrounding us holding up a poster that was Nathan and Haley and I just was like what this daily. Wait, what? And they were holding up posters for all of us in all different ways, but that was just the one that my eye saw that was like, oh my God, wait, these people are here

for us. Yeah. Especially because we were just in this little town. Like, oh man, we were laughing so hard, you guys watching the pilot, just thinking about all the shenanigans of our lives there. And like one of the things, but so funny about Wilmington, it's a college town. Yeah. And it's a retirement town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, it was us, 21. And then it was a bunch of 18 year old kids at UNCW. I wasn't going to kiss those. Nope. And then it was a bunch of people's like dads and grandpaws on the golf course.

I might have kissed those. I wasn't going to kiss those either. And so it was kind of just us. Like all we had was each other literally for better or worse. And oh man, we just had no perspective on anything outside of our little bubble in this little place. And then we got to New York and there were thousands of people in the streets. outside of a building where we were going to do press.

And we were like, what is this? It was like being in the twilight zone. It was so crazy. I remember other people talking about like, oh, your life's about to change. And I'm like, well, I've been on TV since I graduated high school. Like, what are you talking about? You know? Yeah.

I do live TV. Yeah. You know, I get the reaction right away. So to do something where the reaction was delayed was weird. Yeah. Because then it really was so much bigger. And I had a boyfriend, a fiancee. at the time who came to visit and was like riding a skateboard around our base camp and i remember

our bosses going he won't last long like they knew our life was about to change enough that i would just like cast off the old skin and turn into something different i never felt like i mean did you guys feel like your lives your lives did change all of a sudden because like I said we were in london no only in that I was making decisions a hundred percent on my own for the first time like where I wanted to live yeah you know I went shopping for a car with brian greenberg in those first couple episodes I remember I was looking at like a mountaineer did they even make mountaineers anymore what's a mountaineer it's kind of like a jeep right no like a range rover not a range rover not a it's like a jeepy kind of it's like a sport utility vehicle not like a Subaru

girl I don't know no no no I think the mountaineer is like a I think I was just excited to like there it goes yeah like a Ford Escape or whatever like an explorer I was just pumped to like hang out Greenberg because he was so cool you know and so we were like shopping for cars and then I was too scared to actually spend money on a car from a car lot because I wasn't convinced It's scary to spend money when you're making it. I bought like a $1,500, $1986 Mercedes that, like, had the crank windows, you know? Like a turbo diesel. And that's what we would, like, drive into work.

Yeah. And, yeah, it was, it felt extravagant at the time. All of us trying to figure out who we wanted to be. I mean, that's a big deal at that age. Like, you know, we all had different personalities, but you also, we were looking up to other public figures at the time and to the things that we saw in the magazines and other women that we saw around us. I didn't know. I mean, I, I, there were things I admired about you. There were things I admired about you. I just, I, and I remember like, okay, let me copy that and see

if that feels right in my skin. No, that feels, that doesn't feel right. It was like, trying on a sweater. Yes, and look at a magazine and be like, let me try that on and see. And I think every teenage girl can relate to that. We're all trying on different suits to see which one. Yeah. fits us. I felt so confused too because to your point, everyone around us kept telling us our lives were changing. But I just felt like I had no idea what that meant. And I think part of it for me, you know, I grew up my whole life. I went to an all-girls school with 50 girls in my graduating class. I wore uniforms. Like I didn't have any of the experiences we were portraying. Oh, that's so And I had never been in a class with boys.

My high school sweetheart was my best friend from camp since I was nine. I'd never been lied to. I'd never had anyone try to sell me anything. I went to college and I wanted to have the opposite experience. So I went to USC. I thought sororities were lame, but my best friends were joining one. So I did just like you as a cheerleader. But I was the philanthropy chair of my sorority because I can't help but be a nerd.

I like clubs. And I dated a boy all through college who was a computer programmer. Like, we were just so cute. I had no, I had like these dreams of making the kinds of movies I loved. And I remembered, like, you know, watching my so-called life and loving Claire Daines and thinking she was so talented. And she went on to do movies I respected. And I thought maybe someday that could happen. And then suddenly we were on TV and everyone was saying it was happening.

but like we were just going to work every day and like getting offered sweet tea at like the local furniture store where you and I joy were like hunting for antiques and nothing felt Are you talking about the Ivy Cottage? Yes ma'am

The Ivy Cottage on market Right next to that great tie place Indochines The best But like I everyone was saying it was changing but I still kind of felt like a little kid and I didn't want anyone to know I felt like a little kid

So I was trying so hard to be a grown-up. Me too. Oh, see, I had come from MTV where you were looked down on if you hung out with the talent. It made you like a star-fucker. Yeah, it made you a star-fucker. And I was so against that. And so for me, it was really hard to be on the other side of the line. I didn't like how people were like treating me.

and I didn't like, I didn't like feeling like I was being coddled. God, you had so much perspective. And at that time, the only way MTV would let me do the show is if I worked, I worked Sunday. That's right.

I forgot about that. So it was hard for me to connect with anyone because I was always gone because I worked, we shot in the high school on Sundays so we could get the gym. Yeah. We worked Sunday through Thursday,

Friday morning at 6 a.m. I'd fly to New York. I would film, like, three different shows, and then I'd work again Saturday morning, and I'd fly home Saturday night, and then, like, go out, and then go to work again on Sunday, and I did it for the first two seasons.

Oh, my God. And it was so unsustainable. I mean... And by the way, you're being kind about that schedule, because let me just tell you all listening at home something. These basketball days in the gym... Oh, Christ. Average for us as girls,

because we have a two-hour pre-call. We would film for 16 hours in the gym, meaning we would work an 18-hour day. And be told, that's normal. It's normal. On our, quote-unquote, Monday. Which means that because the later you shoot every day, the later your call the next day has to be,

by Friday, we'd be going into work at 4 p.m., starting at 6 p.m., shooting until 4 or 5 a.m. on Saturday. So, Hillary, you are on Friday night, Friday morning. Yeah, that change over. Day night into Friday morning, we'd shoot until four or five, sometimes six a.m. And you would go straight from set to the friggin airport. I didn't look good. I think you'll see over the course of the season, like, I just disintegrate like a little bit more.

And I can see it. Joy, to your point, it's what you were saying about knowing what you were going through personally. Yeah. Like I watch myself trying so hard to spin all the plates. So then by like season three when I was like, guys, right down. here. And then I can just commit to the show. Season three really is one of my favorite seasons because I was just able to do one thing. Yeah. And it felt nice. And I got to cut my hair. Like it felt so nice. But yeah, it was, you forget how bad you wanted it. Yeah. As a kid.

Yeah. And we were all trying so hard to be these grownups who like deserved this position that we never said no to anything. Oh, yeah. Anything they asked. of us. Anything they said was normal. Anything they told us we had to do. By the way, I even think about like any question I was asked. Like when we would do press and they would interview us, no one ever told us you don't have to answer a question if someone asks it. So you'd be like, oh, wow, wow, that feels personal. Oh, okay. Like we just wanted to be good so badly that we didn't realize at times we were like coming apart at the seams. Mm-hmm. I think messy is what made us really relatable. Everyone at home was like, oh, I feel her pain. We all just carry different pain.

I loved, I still love when people are like, I feel like me and Brooke or me and Peyton or me and Haley, I feel like we would be friends. And I'm like, I love that. That's my favorite feedback. The Peyton crying in her car, I guess there's like a meme of me crying in a car. And my son, every night at 7 p.m. gets online with his best friend and they look at memes. Like they watch YouTube videos and like that's what fifth grade boys do and so I guess at some point my son got curious and like saw a Peyton crying in her car meme and so like 11 year old Gus is like why were you always just crying in a car and what's kind of great is like I know now why Peyton's like always like super messy but it wasn't explained in this pilot no not at all I mean

I liked that when I watched the pilot I liked that because I thought there's really somewhere to go like I want to understand this girl why does she I was empathetic of you just didn't have the reaction that apparently a lot of other people did I thought she was so cool yeah I thought you were such a crush on you well I always was like Hillary's so grown up and she's so cool and her arms are so long and slender how she gets like that she knows how to use pom-poms and shows me like I just I just wanted to follow you around like a puppy I was like teach me stuff can I go to bars with you you're cool like I just felt like didn't you feel like she knew everything I didn't though guys I was so I was intimidated by joy because joy had been in thinner and I had remembered like oh she was in like a movie like a big deal you were the pro that was 14 like six years before that's amazing I was so intimidated by your theater acting it I was just like, wow, she keeps talking on all these plays and I've never seen any of those. I don't know anything about musical theater. Like, cool.

I felt like I, yeah, it's interesting thinking about it. I just felt like I had so much to learn from you guys. Weird. No, I was the, I felt like what I had said before where I was just kind of terrified inside and just like, you know, looking at both of you and in on, like, thought you were both so cool and so, like, with it and so like, you were so stylish. Yeah. So she was with her no back blouses.

Like Sophia had an orange halterneck top. That's when cut t-shirts were cool. And that was a t-shirt that had been cut up by some girl in L.A. And the neck was the armholes, you guys. It was like a men's extra large t-shirt and you'd like put the armholes on your neck. I felt so cool. Yeah. Because a girl who was older than me in college who was in my sorority had like taken

me to this t-shirt shop and i was like this is cool i'm an adult on tv i should wear this in public and put my face through some guy's armpit holes like oh my god it's so embarrassing no but you also were like the pied piper of all the dudes on the show with that shirt like i remember a caravan from the riverview suites to the rhino club up on market and just they were all following you like ducklings It was just like, that shirt's killing it. We had watched NipTuck. I didn't see it. Your episodes of NipTuck were airing.

And we all watched them together. And then we went because we were 21 and bona fide to a bar to celebrate. We were like, we're getting cocktails. And Greenberg played his guitar. God bless Greenberg being, you know, in every. It's so cool, man. There's that one guy with the guitar. Yeah.

He was our guy. He was our guy. He was our guy. But not like, like Jake's character. was not overly romanticist. You know, those guys, there's always a guy with the guitar who really like, he's like, I'm the guy with a guitar. He's barefoot?

Yeah. Greenberg's not that guy. He was just always, always seemed so self-confident and just sort of in his own skin. He was just cool. And he was, like, covering Elliot Smith songs. That's right. He was so cool. He was good for the, like, music recommendation. He had really cute friends.

Like, when we would come up to New York for MTV, Greenberg would be like, we're going to meet some of my bros from NYU. you. And I was always like, I'll come. That sounds so fun. Oh, God, I wish we'd been on those trips. I wish I'd hung out with you. I wish I hadn't been so afraid of everything that I had actually, like, gone out and hung out and done all that stuff. I was just, like, so terrified of.

Thankfully, though, we had trips. Like, trips forced us into that space. And season one, we had the hurricane. Yes. Chicken and waffles. Did you remember that, please? Oh, my. Oh, my God.

Oh, God. It was like the spot. We all met up there, right? It was like half of us went to one place and half of us went to the other place because it was like, there's a hurricane and we all need to be in the same spots. We went for chicken and waffles. Oh, man. I mean, the hurricanes, that was something that was new for all of us.

And so you take all these kids that are away from, like, home or just what they're used to for the first time. You start filming in September and then hurricane season hits in October and we're all forced to like be grownups and deal with natural disasters and also like be on a national television show and then fly all over the country and do press by the way remember when people were like oh are you stormproofing your windows i was like a what a who yeah how do you do that i don't know i mean i was still living above the bar so stormproofing my windows yeah the idea of like nailing boards into the wall i'm like i don't have a nail a picture frame into the wall guys like i'm pretty

sure i can't stormproof my house would be fine okay so obviously now now the world knows we were all so terrified to be at work and so deeply intimidated by an enamored with each other. Oh my God. Like, but Joy, I'm so curious for you because, you know, Hill, you had done the pilot. And then you came in to do these reshoots of the pilot. And then I came in and we all started working together right as soon as those, right? As soon as those were done.

But what was it like to have to reshoot some of those. huge pilot scenes because some of them are easy right like you're at karen's cafe it's you chad and moira but then you had to do shots to match that huge basketball scene like the Lucas and nathan face off that starts the show yeah was that insane to have to do that what was weird about it was that if i recall correctly we didn't actually reshoot that river front scene we were shooting a different basketball scene on the river court for another episode, and they tacked my reactions for the pilot onto that scene. So they did like inserts in you and then edited them in? Yeah, exactly. They did a really good job. They did a really good job. I did not know that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how they

did it though. That's what I remember. That scene is so good. It really is. And you know, as much as we are so, you know, we kept saying while we were watching it, how impressed we were with James and how strong and intimidating and he was holding his own and he was 17 years old and like so attractive and captivating on screen and you know they did a really good job because with with these characters too because I really was rooting for Lucas when I watched this pilot as much as I and it's it's a feat to have you sort of you're attracted to the villain in a way but you're also rooting for the guy that's supposed to be the hero I mean if they didn't if they hadn't done that right if they hadn't cast it right shot it right written it

right if those guys hadn't played it right we probably wouldn't be sitting here today because that was that's that was the biggest moment yeah in the pilot that i think brought people back keep coming back you know james was so sinister in the pilot yeah which watching now i'm like what how did he do 17 blows my mind at the time we took it for granted right like you just expect everyone to show up and yeah do their job do their job yeah watching it now you know he's not that far removed from my son's age which is like creepy he's only six years older than Gus was at the time and so super impressive but I remember them recasting your part it had originally been a character named Reagan it was played by Sam Shelton who's an awesome actress great singer by the way too great singer her and zoie de chenelle

had like a duo at the time yeah and she was so cool and so fun but when I was told that they were recasting her, it was specifically because they wanted Nathan and Haley to become a couple. And I remember at the time, and Sam just wasn't right for that, right? Yeah, yeah. Like those two didn't work because Sam was older than I was. So the jump from, from James to me and then her to James was just a different chemistry. Really different chemistry. And I remember thinking when they told me that, like, there's no.

way that will work like Nathan and Tudor girl like what because he was so like bad yeah yeah in my mind there was no way to make it work and so it's a real testament to James's work yeah being able to take Nathan from that dark place into like a beloved daddy figure yeah yeah you know yeah and he he's so genuinely such a good solid guy that that there was there was that was that was bound to come through as well did you know from the jump that they were going to put you two together no no idea yeah no i never knew that i didn't either and by the way it's because i mean i would think if i like click into a producer hat for a second they wanted there to be that tension that existed in season one were all the fans because we were piggybacking the end of dawson's creek everyone wanted you and lucas to be pacey and joey

Or to be Dawson and Joey. Which one is it? That's what I was expecting. Yeah. Yeah. We all thought you guys were maybe going to end up together. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Me too. Did you guys never went there, did you ever? No. I mean, we... Such a strong choice. I don't think that ever... Well, we'll find out as we keep watching because I honestly don't remember most of the first season. I mean, I remembered those moments from the pilot, but...

No, we didn't have that kind of... We just, that chemistry wasn't there. It didn't exist. That really was a good example of... a male-female friendship that was earnest and like hard when it needed to be hard and just kind of yeah we didn't really see a lot of that where it didn't veer off into romantic territory yeah there just wasn't sexual tension there for whatever reason i don't know but i think it gave although when chef walked into the room don't think we didn't clock that in karen's cafe your flustered little

reaction oh what are you doing oh god hello do you know paul we were all having dinner at Deluxe, me, Paul, and Craig. See, well, I was hanging out with the NYU boys. You were with the grown-ups. You were having a fine time, Joy. I'm trying to figure out where I fit in. Joy nailed it. We were idiots.

No, this was years later. This is years later. I don't know if he came back to the show or if it was before he left or something. It was years later. But I had kind of gotten over my crush with him. And, you know, but we were at dinner. And we're all sitting there, just like Paul, aka Dan Scott, who I love very, very much, but who loves seeing people in awkward, uncomfortable situations.

It's just pure comedy to him. And so true to Paul, we're all sitting at the table. And he goes, hey, chef, you know, Joy had a massive crush on you. Oh, no. He was like, she was in love with you. And, I mean, I just turned, like, beat. Craig just looked at me, and I was like, yeah. Let's not talk about it.

Any things I think when we're young. I don't know what I made up. Oh, you, man. He is such a sweetheart, though. Like, what a great guy. And we loved his daughter. Yeah. He was a hot single dad.

Yeah. And we would babysit his daughter, Willow. You know what, I have to say, he was looking out for us, too. Like, he really was one of the ones that was the very few people that was, was a good listener and would wanted to hear how our experiences were, what we were going through, would give advice freely. Like, just really, he really cared, you know. He and Paul were so special. looking back on it and I've told you guys this and I've said it at conventions too but for anybody who's never been able to hang out with us when we shot when we started shooting the

season so we came back after this pilot episode my parents came down to Wilmington to like move me into my apartment like bring dishes all that kind of stuff like I was going into my dorm we went out to dinner with James and his mom at like one of those you know riverfront restaurants and James was like I mean he had to have a chaperone because he was still a kid and so it was almost like we were being set up to be buddies you know and so I was like okay yeah our parents are making us be friends because we're playing boyfriend girlfriend and and then afterwards I took my parents to that upstairs French bistro um what the hell was that place called caprice yes and Paul showed up and Paul

Paul is, like, so good at ordering wine. Paul is so charming and he's so funny. And I think we were laughing. And at some point, like, I laughed and, like, touched his knee and was like, oh, you old scamp, you know, like one of those moves. And my parents' mood changed. And we left. And my parents were like, you are not dating him. Don't even think about it.

And it had never occurred to me, but I was like, oh. Oh. Maybe I will do that way. Oh, is that an option? Well, now. The world's opened up. But when you're all new, you know. It's also so funny to us because, I mean, Joy had the smart sites, I think.

But I don't know, at least for me, like, and I imagine, as we've talked about it for you, I looked at Paul and Craig, like, they were supposed to be playing our dads. I mean, meanwhile, they're only like 15, 16 years older. Exactly. But at the time, because I still felt like such a little kid. It never occurred to me that they were not actually our parents' age. And so now, like, you telling me that Jeff and Paul are the same age blew my mind. I was like, what?

And when we watched the episode, you know, when I met Jeff, he was like, oh, I auditioned for that show. And I'm like, wait, what? And my husband, Jeffrey, auditioned for Schaeffer's part. Oh, my God. And he was like, yeah, you know, I like the whole, like, gritty garage, you know, that, like, edgy thing. Yes. Joy was on to something. Hey. You know?

Hey. Had El Hefei shown up in those tight jeans that chef was wearing. Can you imagine? Yeah, I would have definitely had kids earlier. That's a totally different behind the scene scandal. Oh, my God. And by the way, the wildness of you while we watched the pilot, like this would have actually been mind-blowing because you talk about in that scene in the car,

where you stop and you like make the face at Chad. Oh, yeah. You're like, oh, that's my kids staring back at me. It's weird. What if it actually would have that was like, oh, my God, it would have been so crazy. Yeah. You know, my son is probably going to be an actor. Like, he has already dived into directing stuff and really, really loves it.

And I don't want him to do it until he has a real clear sense of who he is. Because I was so wishy-washy, and I didn't grow up in the industry the way he has. You know, I was super green from Virginia, you know, didn't know anything about film work. Meanwhile, he's like a pro now. I still don't want him to do it until he's 18. Yeah, I feel that way about Maria. Yeah, but to see my face, my child's face in a cheerleading uniform, I'm like, oh, my God, it's Gus, just making those surly little faces and, like, super grum. and very dramatic.

I love it. Yeah, it's weird. We were babies. It is weird seeing like the kid and yourself. Yeah. I'm protective of it. Yeah. Well, and it makes me a little bit emotional.

I mean, firstly, let me just say on the subject of things we deserve. We all. Because we deserve it. You know, I'm proud of us for caring about a job. each other enough to have, you know, been at this and be such fierce, you know, lovers of and defenders of each other for all these years. Yeah. And I'm, I love that we're doing this and we're, you know, taking back our joy from a place

that had so much of it, but also had not joyous experiences. And, and it's kind of wild because I feel that too. I feel so protective of you both. And I feel protective of my young self. and I feel so protective of Brooke Davis like she's a person. Like I get surly, if anyone tries to come for her, and then I have it also for Peyton and for Haley.

Like I remember some like quote unquote fan on the internet like, you know, tried to say why Peyton was a bad friend. And I was like, you don't know the first thing about what Peyton Sawyer did for Brooke Davis. And I was like, wow, this is an irrational reaction that I'm having. This is not appropriate. And anyway, but I just, I don't know. It's nostalgic and beautiful.

and intense a little to watch that pilot. Not so like full disclosure, I cried afterwards because you watch it and like the sense memory is there. Like I remember what the river courts smelled like next to the river in the middle of the night. I remember like that humidity and also the smell of the lights, you know, and there's just like such sense memory about it. And we had no idea in that moment that the thing that we were making at 20, 21 years old was going to be the thing that became like the cornerstone of our life.

When people stop me in the grocery store, like every once in a while it's white collar or a Christmas movie or something. But 99% of the time it's this show. And it makes you think like, oh, maybe I would have made some different choice if I knew that this was going to live forever. There was no streaming then. That's right. There was no, like, internet.

You could watch TV on the internet. Yeah. That was it. Soap network. That's right. Which doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah. That was it.

And we had no idea what was coming. Well, we didn't, yeah, we didn't know what was ahead in terms of the good or the bad of it. What was your favorite moment from the pilot? As a viewer? I feel like this is what we should do every episode. What was our favorite moment? Oh. just as a viewer yeah um

i loved Karen ripping down a new one in the car dealership because now that we're were the age that moira was when we shot that like if my agent sent me those sides and was like hey do you want to do this show like yes uh huh

yes i do thank you so much like it she just it was a great character she knew exactly how to play the pissed-off mama bear. And it's fun to watch, it's fun to watch Moira. She's so, so good. And scary, like a little scary.

You want her on your team. Yeah. Yeah. I think probably just that big game at the end on the river court when the guys are facing off with each other. That was, the stakes were so heightened. And I think that, and I do remember really, loving this the image of the guy who was not chad but doing chad stand in walking across just

bouncing the that the iconic image from the show van walking across the bridge dribbling the basketball it was such a it was such great brilliant imagery whoever came up with that shot it's brilliant it like sticks in my head and then and then you and and chat at the railroad tracks always sticks in my head too the you're you were so natural you felt so comfortable in front of the camera, Hillary, and there was like an instant, I don't know, the chemistry between the two of you guys in that moment, I felt it and it, I remember that tugged at my heart instantly on the show. I was like, I think I'm in. I think I'm in on this show. And then the moment on the basketball court really tied it all up for me. Absolutely. I agree. That basketball scene

is just so good because you know what the stakes are for these families and something about this sort of dynastic element of who Dan Scott is... What is that word? She's smart. She went to space camp, y'all. You see. But truly, this notion that this character

of Dan Scott has a dynasty essentially in this small town. He's like a king. Yeah, right, okay. And the element of what his hyper-masculine sort of patriarchal story is with this, you know, his progeny, his son who's, you know, next in line

for the throne. And then this other kid who by no choice of his own is sort of stuck in this mess and the woman who's been harmed by playing his mother like it's so good and and then you realize as these two boys essentially are in this gladiator battle that neither of them chose this and that it's going to affect them for the rest of their lives i just remember thinking how elemental it felt and and i had that same moment of like I'm I'm in yeah and I loved how it was constantly reinforced similarly the you know I couldn't relate to that family story but what I could relate to was being a part of a world but still feeling like an outsider in it yeah you know from the outside maybe I looked like I had it together or like you know

yeah I was in this club or that club or did theater or seemed popular but I always I always felt more like Peyton. I always felt really uncomfortable sort of in the skin of that place. You did a good job, Sof, because you came in with Brooke Davis just like, it's up bitches, I'm here win, you know, and like, owned it. But I had to be someone I couldn't relate to. Yeah. And so that's actually what made it easier for me. And

I always felt a little uncomfortable in a room of people who seemed like they had it all together. And the moment that made me feel seen was the cutting back and forth, almost montage style in the scenes where Nathan's driving the school bus. All the cool kids are partying. And Peyton's a cool kid, but she's not there. And she's driving her car, listening to angsty music by herself. And it's cutting back and forth between these two driving scenes. And Nathan almost drives into the train and you almost run Lucas over. And everybody stops. And it, I don't know.

No, that was the thing that made me feel seen. Yeah. And I was like, I have felt that. I get that. What were you listening to in your car by yourself in high school? Oh, man. Oh, I mean. Cheryl Crow, baby.

Oh, really? Who ended up coming on the shower. Oh, that was really ginked out with her. And Billy Joel. Yeah. Cheryl Crow. It's funny because I grew up listening to Motown with my mom and the Eagles with my dad. And then I got really.

into, I think just like being a kid who lived in L.A., you know, it was the era of Tupac and the Tupac and Biggie battle. And then I was a senior in high school when Chronic 2001 came out. And I was like, Dr. Dre is the coolest. So I was just like this, you know, really gangly little white girl who loved rap. That's terrible. What about you, Hill? Yeah.

I wasn't allowed to listen to modern music really. And so I, you know, with Peyton and all our dumb vinyl, you know, that was like, Who I was. The only music I could get was what we could check out at the library. Because I didn't have necessarily money growing up to go and buy CDs or tapes or whatever. So we checked out stuff from the Sterling Public Library. And I remember getting like my culture club albums. Like I was obsessed with boy George.

I was so obsessed with and like sexuality. Annie Lennox, Boy George, David Bowie. Melissa Etheridge. Girl, I was on a real gender. bend or kick. And so Payton coming in with a lot of masculine energy felt like good to me. I was like, this chick can kiss anybody she wants. This will be great. Which is something that a lot of the fan base is picked up on. You know, like there is a large part of the fan base that's like, Peyton's gay, right? And I'm like, I don't know. There's still time, guys. Life is long.

So yeah, that was, you know, what was fun for me. I would love. to know where all those records ended up. Yeah. Scattered to the wind. I know. I stole some things for you from set when we wrapped up, but they'd packed those records up by then, and I was pretty pissed about it.

I was like, where did they go? Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric,

that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you love witty sarcasm and talking fast? And are you longing to return to Stars Hollow for one more trip to Kim's Antiques? So just to pick up a few things at Dozy's Market is an overnight stay. It's a Dragon Flay, and on your list of plans for a getaway. It's a burger from Luke Steiner on the menu for tonight.

This is Scott Patterson. I was Luke Dane's for 153 episodes and in four Netflix movies. I Am All In, an IHeart Radio podcast. Come hang with us. We're re-watching together. We're visiting with all our favorite casting crew members. We talk fast. We've got a lot to say.

Listen to I Am All In wherever you listen to podcasts. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for Most Likely 2. Okay, so we're going to try and do this at the end of every episode. Who's most likely to, you know, like in high school, like in your high school. Maybe you had this in your yearbook. We should ask the fans what their most likely twos were so we can get some ideas. Oh, I like that idea. I like that idea.

Right? Yeah. I mean, I feel like in most yearbooks, It looks like the one I hear about a lot is most likely to succeed. Are there others that you would prefer to explore? No, I mean, I think this idea of success in this first episode is such a major point because obviously on paper, Dan Scott is most likely to succeed. But as we know, that doesn't happen.

That's some malarkey. Yeah, that's right. Who do we feel like who's most like this really succeeded in this world? And well, I guess define success, right? In high school, typically most likely to succeed means the person who's going to, what, make the most money and build the biggest business in that way. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's different definitions to success.

It's like not the kid joining Peace Corps. You know what I mean? Right. But it should be. It should be the kid joining Peace Corps. Yeah. I mean, Karen has raised a child who loves her. And I think as like adults now, we realize how rare that can be sometimes.

Success. Yeah. I mean, a kid that communicates with you and loves you. and lets you into their world is a big deal. Someone with a strong moral character who you can drop into any scenario and they're going to do the right thing. You know, I mean, that's massive success for sure.

I think most likely to succeed as Barry Corbin a little bit who plays coach Whitey, who when we were shooting One Tree Hill had been in more television shows and movies. Like the length of Barry's career is nuts and like just dropped into this world of freaking teenagers and was like, Guess I'm going to own this.

And for those of you who don't know, no one had a better time in Wilmington than Barry Corvin. Oh, yeah. Good God. We should try and get him come in and chat with us. On the time, I would love that. What I would give to hear Barry's stories. Because he just watched us and like enjoyed that.

The way you watches the cattle, just moving along. That interesting what's happening over there. Okay. I'm going to say, I think. My vote for most likely to succeed in this episode is going to be Mouth. I think watching him on the river court do his thing, he was so driven and focused. And it really set the tone for him as a character throughout the rest of the series. Everything that he was always driving at, he provided so much ammunition and fuel for so many different storylines.

And he was just always always chasing a dream, you know? And I love that about him. Yeah. That's my vote. He brought a lot of energy. What about you? Oh, man. I was really like, you're right, it's Karen.

That's the way to go. And now I'm like, oh, but, Mel. I'm so bad at this. I've never been able to pick a thing. I don't know. I think it's funny because then I also have. Haley, excuse me. Sorry, something in my own.

Well, yes. And obviously, she's brilliant. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's brilliant. but like the the pilot feels very set up to give Lucas who's always been the outcast his first taste of success like that boy yeah gets his first win in the pilot and I think what they set up is the audience curiosity as to whether or not he's going to be able to

hold on to it like you come back to see which of them gets the ball next time and that I think is a really brilliant device I'm going to say the most like to succeed for me is the town of Wilmington. Oh. Because this show was such a love letter to that town. The way it shot is so beautiful.

And it has set up like a tourism industry that has, you know, surpassed anything I think anyone ever expected. And like Dawson's didn't take place in North Carolina. They were like cheating Cape Cod, I guess. That's right. That's right. Wilmington for Cape Cod. And so I think Wilmington came out such a winner

You took this to such another level, Hillary. It's a metaphor, y'all. It's a metaphor. This is why she should be running the film commission. That's right. Hello? Y'all, I don't join clubs anymore. We're clubbed out.

The Drama Queen Club is the only one I'm a part of anyone. The Drama Queen, Drama Queen, Drama Queen. So next week, we have episode 102, the places you have come to fear the most. That sounds dangerous. It's because I'm showing up. Like a helian. Mm-hmm. And my bad hair.

Oh, please. That was a bad haircut. It was so cool then. But good God, I just, I wish we'd had one. We need a female executive. We need a female executive. It all comes back to hair. Yeah, I'm into it.

All right, y'all better watch the episode because we're going to have some things to say. That's right. And her hot little bodge show up. And it's Charleston. We can't wait to see you guys next week. you so much for joining us. Have a good night, y'all. Bye. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl fashion

but you're tough girl, you could sit with us girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.