Drama Queens - Taylor-Made w/Lindsey McKeon • EP223

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

Taylor James aka Lindsey McKeon is joining The Queens this week. Did you know Sophia and Lindsey went to preschool and elementary school together!?!?  Lets get to the bottom of a long-harbored, legendary “pencil story.” We know Haley and Taylor are at odds, but what about Joy & Lindsey? Their on-set relationship might surprise you…  Let’s also talk OTH music! Plus Lindsey has a very sexy special skill we’re dying to see. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hello, friends and listeners. Let's dive in. I cannot believe we are at the end of season two episode. Can you believe 23 episodes of season two we have watched together? We are now on season two, episode 23, The Leavers Dance. And should we tell, well, should we tell them now or do we wait? Tell us now. How do we do it?

Tell them now. Okay, we're going to tell you now. Guys, we're so very excited. We may have definitely done some of our excitement prior to hitting record, which we were reminded by the nice people who produced the show to stop doing that. So I will repeat what I said before, which is that we have been loving watching this season. And all of us gals have been so blown away by none other than the iconic Taylor James, played by the phenomenal Lindsay McKeon, who is. My God, so pretty that it hurts to look at her. And I'm saying that because I'm looking at you on Zoom.

And I can't believe this is your face. Welcome. What an intro. We are so happy to have you here. So fun to be here and just see more and more and more of you guys. Lindsay and I just got back from a fan convention in Paris. We had such a fun time. It was great to reconnect.

and just, I mean, I think it's always so moving. And I know you had this experience, too. So when you get to meet with fans and interact and hear their stories, but it was also really nice behind the scenes to just get to reconnect with Lindsay, who I haven't seen in a while. And so, yeah, when Hillary had to step out for this episode, I was like, please, please, can we bring Lindsay in, please? Because she's so great, such a wonderful actress.

We have nothing but gushing things to say about you whenever. you are on the screen. So it's long overdue. So thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. I'm going to keep you around forever. You're the best hype squad. Okay. Well, Lindsay, why don't you read the synopsis for us? Oh, shit. I'm putting you on the spot. Go, girl. I mean, my glasses for this. Okay, guys, it's part two of the season two finale. Lucas continues to spy on Dan. Deb comes back from rehab to find out Nathan is moving home, but she has other plans. Peyton meets a mysterious writer named Ellie. Karen decides to take a leap of love to New Zealand. Brooke leaves for the summer, but not without Lucas professing his love for her with a goodbye kiss.

Dan's fate goes up and flame. This was a big episode. This was a big episode. This was a big. episode. Before we get into that, I want to know, Lindsay, how much of this show have you actually seen? Why do you keep putting me on the spot? No, there's no wrong answer. We've all been saying since we started our podcast, we're all like, we've never seen it because we were working all the time. I was going to have you seen it. Did you guys watch every episode together? How did that work? No. No. So we're seeing this for the first time. A lot of these episodes are seeing for the first time. Okay. Did you go back and watch your, like, when you're,

work came out when the show came out? Do you watch your work or are you just sort of like? Yeah, I'm sure I saw it. But that was so long ago. So long ago when we started. What was it? 2003 I entered. That's almost 20 years ago, 2003 or 2005. Oh, gosh. Hush. Hush your mouth. I know. I mean, if I do say so myself, especially as we're all talking about the weird shades of red, our hair was died and like the Rachel green layers. I think we've only gotten hotter. We look better now than we did then. So hats off to us. It's the same. Everybody looks really good. Haley has so many layers in her hair. That blowout was just like it was like the stairs up to the Statue of Liberty. It was just never-ending layers. I love it. I love it. It's also so interesting because I know I was telling you

this a little bit when we first jumped on the Zoom, Lindsay. But for us, it's really wild. You know, looking back at a show that was made in the early odds that was a teen show about high school, largely centering on these young women, but written mostly by older men. There's stuff that can be a little tricky, things that now is, you know, producers and directors and women who are more in control of creative, we see in ways that when we were all babies on our first show and we didn't know what was normal and what wasn't. didn't really know back then, like in season two, and something that has been so striking to us is that they brought you in to play Taylor as, you know, a foil to Haley as a potential wedge in this relationship. You had some very, like, stereotypical, like, the vixen who comes to town to cause trouble stuff. And every scene that could have felt like a character. You put layers in Taylor that made it clear that this was someone who had suffered, who was acting out of pain, who was really struggling with what the world had told her she was. And was she going to believe it or not? You layered her. But it's like, it's wild to watch. Again, because like, you know, we read the scripts and we'd be like, wow, this is wild. But to watch the nuance that you put in.

a performance that I think we've seen a lot with no nuance on other shows. I'm trying to be very diplomatic. But it's like, anyway, I just realize that this is an episode that Taylor's not in so we can't gush about you to you. So I just want to repeat all the things we've been saying about you when you haven't been in the Zoom room with us. Because we've all just been like really blown away by you and it's been so cool. Yeah. If you brought as many layers to Taylor, as there were in Haley's hair. Well, I think we're... Oh, my goodness.

Oh, my God. How did you get the role? Like, do you remember when the audition came? What were you doing at the time? Like, give us some backstory. I think the only thing I remember about auditioning was where, like, the location it was on the W-B-Lot in one of the trailers.

Like, that's literally the only thing I remember. Um, and then the idea of like, oh, I booked it, you know. Um, and for me, it was so funny because I was like, like, Sophia Bush is on the show and we went to preschool and kindergarten together. Oh my gosh, that's right. Yeah. Our history, like, what's the pencil story? Story too. It's very weird that we all like keep ending together. It's so, oh, isn't there up some story about a pencil? Why is that in my brain? Oh, yeah. No, Lindsay. And Zinzi and I, like, as little kids, fully got in, like, a playground fight and over, like, a toy. Well, by the way, I find it to be hilarious.

I thought it was funny because my mom, like, recounted the whole thing to me. And I remember being so enamored with you and your mom, because your mom was an actor and was doing, like, huge national commercials. And I was like, wait, the girl I got in a fight with is the same girl whose mom did the, wait, what? And my mom was like, how do you not remember this? I was like, we were four. I don't know. I so don't remember it. My mom didn't remember it. I even went to the school and was like, do you remember this happening? They're like, no, I don't remember that happening. I was like, I thought we had friends. I didn't remember stabbing her in the face. Oh, my God. Well, by the way, I genuinely thought it was so funny. And then, you know, we had some very

petty, shall we say male ADs on our show who like, I don't know, we're weird. about it. And I was like, why is everyone else being weird about it if we're not weird about it? But yeah, the world is very small. And I also just find it hilarious that like, I don't know, apparently we got in a fight over a Fisher Price toy or something on a playground. Like, what? It's so, it's so silly. I remember a lot of like male, young male guys like hitting me in the head at that school. Someone hit me in the head with like a plastic pitcher. I was like glushing. Oh, it was like fight for your life on that playground. Holy shit. Yeah. Do you remember...

This is Pasadena? No, this is in L.A. Oh, my gosh. This was off of Fairfax. It was a school called First Lutheran, which, by the way, was like run by nuns. Wasn't it? No, it wasn't Little Red Schoolhouse. It was...

Shoot, why am I blinking on the name? Fountain Day. Fountain Day. You're right, you're right. Oh, yeah, that's still around. So, yeah. And maybe it was like a... That was the denomination.

I don't know. I just remember, like, I was... remember my favorite nun at the school was miss mary who taught us swim do you remember her and she had like the fun the name sounds familiar i do remember swim i remember there was this teacher that like got super angry at me and another guy i really liked like my boyfriend bobby at the time oh my god bobby remember bobby do you remember when bobby taught all of us what the middle finger meant because he had older siblings. Oh my God. Bobby was bad. I got, Bobby was a bad kid. I got in so much trouble. I went home and I flipped my mom off and I was like, what is this mean? And my mom was like,

fucking Bobby. She was so angry. Bobby was like, if you could like do it like kind of East Coast Guido in a five year old, that was mom. Yes. 100%. His hair was always slicked back and he was such a little boy. Yeah. He had brill cream at home. He's just like ripping into his hair. He loved a that child. Anyway, I remember, yeah, for the most part, loving all of our experiences there and just, I remember when your mom would, like, come to pick you up from school and we'd be like, what'd you do today? Like, we all just wanted to know, you know, what cool thing she was filming. When you saw that Sophia was on the show, was that like, was it like, oh, good, I'll get to see Sophia again? Was it like, oh, is it weird? Is it going to be weird? Like, how did you

feel? No, I was like, oh, cool. We were like besties in preschool. Like, this is so fun. Great. I love it. And then I heard about the pencil from the crew, and I was like, wait, she hates me? And I was like, I think this is funny. Why is everyone searching for drama? Honestly, I think people were so bored.

There was nothing to do. And I think, like, Ian and Billy just wanted to stir up some shit. And I was like, I'm confused as to what's happening here. And then I remember feeling weird because for the first many episodes you did, we never had a scene together, so I never even really got to see you. There was like one night we all went to a bar and I was like, I feel as though a wedge is happening and it's not either of our faults. I feel like I was robbed now that you say that. We never got, we didn't really get Taylor and Brooke together. Like what a dynamic duo that would have been on screen. Those two

energies, what a force. It's like everything that we wanted. The hurricane that would have been. Yes, because. We were scared of us together. Because like, Nikki and Rachel were such clear villains, but Taylor wasn't. Taylor was like a complicated girl. But, you know, she had all that lively energy and she had a little bit of that vixen in her, but she also had this like, she had this vulnerability. And I think there was a very similar thread with Brooke in that way on different levels. But we could never really get that Brooke partnership of matching energy with Nikki or with Rachel because they were just so bad. And that's not who Brooke is. That would have been really fun.

Oh, man. It would have been really cool. And I think there could have been, like, in my head, I see it almost like an old Western duel, like when two people are like, there's only room for one of us around here. But then they could have wound up being like great friends, you know? Yeah, that would have been great. They robbed us. They did. They did. It would have been fun. We've really realized, I got robbed in season two. I got robbed of a Taylor storyline. I got robbed of making out with hot Uncle Cooper. Which, by the way, Lindsay, have you heard this? Michael Truco just dropped the bomb on us that the writers pitched that Uncle Cooper and Brooke Davis were supposed to be a couple

and I was like, I was fucking robbed! That would have been so fun. This has been a season where I've been thieved from. They should have ponied up. They paid him more on Battlestar. He had this offer for two shows. They didn't pony up. I know.

They sure didn't. But with the connections that you got to build on the show, because you guys were worked together on Guiding Light before, right? It didn't, which is crazy. Right. Oh, is that just a rumor?

We played the same character. She played it first. You were the baby, right? No, wait, you weren't Michelle. You weren't Michelle. You were Mara. Right? Yeah, I was Mara.

So you were Britney Snow's character, I think. No, no, that was Susan. Who played Mara? I'm blaming me. There were other girls. There were a couple of other girls, but Mara was, younger. Laura something. Bundy. Oh yeah, Laura Bundy. She's so talented. Have you ever seen her on stage? No. Oh my God. I just saw her do sweet charity in L.A. a few years. I mean, like,

she just, she's so unbelievably talented. Anyway, Laura Bundy, go look her up. Laura Bell Bundy. Okay, wait. Okay, wait. But how, did you guys ever work together on guided or not? No, no, we were on the show at different times. I don't know if you came on when I left. I think maybe you came on when I left. I left in 90, no, 2000, 99, 2000. Yeah, and I was probably 2001 or something like that. Yeah. Whoa. So, I played a different character. And then you're born in New Jersey? Yeah, well, I lived in New Jersey. I was born in Florida, but yeah, I lived in New Jersey for most of my life. I was born in New Jersey. Where? Uh, summit. Dude, I always find Jersey people. You know my mom's the teenette girl. That's why I love your mom so much.

Yeah, yeah. We're all Jersey girls or Jersey adjacent. Yeah, Jersey adjacent. I was in Bergen County, so we grew up in Waldwick. Hence the fighting on this pool yard. Yeah, it fits. It's all, it's fucking Bobby. I just want a T-shirt that says, we blame Bobby. So you guys didn't work together on that show, but obviously, like, knew of each other. Do you feel like when you first came to Wilmington lens. Like, did you guys bond quickly? Did you go on like a walk to create a sister backstory or did it all just happen on set? I don't know if we knew of each other when I first got on or if we found that out like during the duration of our time together. Joy was always just so nice and welcoming, honestly, probably the most welcoming person that, um,

I experienced at the time. I remember, though, like, we did not sister bond, because back then I was complicated, like Taylor, like not as crazy as Taylor, but pretty complicated. And I just remember Hillary, you were so, sorry, not Hillary, Bethany. You were so sweet, but I just remember you asking me, like, one time if I wanted to knit with you.

And I'm like, you're asking the wrong girl. That is gorgeous. Oh my gosh. That is gorgeous. I remember when you came on. Everybody calls me Joy, by the way. You called me Bethany once at the, no, it's confusing because we haven't talked to each other in a while.

And, you know, so I get it. I have other friends who I have other friends who I talk with kind of frequently that's still like, call me Bethany. I'm like, whatever. I'll respond to whatever. Apparently you like that better, so that's fine. It's hard. All patterns die hard.

Totally. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I remember when you came on that I remember being really impressed by how talented you were. And that always that always kind of wins my heart. I think as an artist when I am working with someone, I am amazing.

immediately drawn to people that I really feel a combative is the wrong word when you're playing with each other. You're bouncing things off of each other. And it's like a banter. Yeah, it's like a, like a choreographed street fight, you know, in the scene. And whatever I threw at you, you threw something back. And then I could throw something back at you. And it was fun. And I loved doing that with you. And so and then there was an immediate respect of, oh, I really respect. this person because she's really smart and she's in the moment and she's an artist that I can relate to. And then I also could sense that you were going through some stuff just in your personal life, which we all go through seasons of that. And I was too. And I think it was just, it just made me

kind of, I don't know, I wanted to connect, but I also didn't want it to be. There's also a part of when you have to play really, when you do have to play specifically combative characters, you don't always want to become really good friends. Sometimes it's helpful to like not know the person too well so that you can be honestly in the moment without feeling. I don't know. I mean, I guess I could go either way because I could still do that with my best friends too. But I don't know. I feel like I'm babbling now. Someone saved me. No, you know what's interesting about watching you guys talk about that kind of energy? I remembering that year feel exactly the same way. like we were sort of all treated like we were grownups but we were all 22 years old

and like trying to figure out our places in the world and everybody had a lot going on behind the scenes and I remember like even with kind of how weird some of the energy was with some of those boys on set being like I don't have the skills to know how to address this or bring it out or talk about it. I feel weird. I feel embarrassed. Like there was a lot of our youth and our inability to navigate these grown-up situations while everyone was treating us like we were supposed to be grown-ups

that I think made us all just go like you'd throw something in the middle and be like, do you want to knit or like, do you want to go for a walk? No, okay, forget I asked. And then we'd like run the other way. And we were on an island in North Carolina, like, you know, totally. Beautiful and awkward. When you say, you know, you were in a moment of transition, as I think, again, many of us were at that time, and we didn't know how to talk about it, did that, did that let you kind of put some of your personal depth under Taylor? Like when you read the script and found out, okay, troubled older sister, kicked out of college, big reveal that, you know, she hooked up with Haley's husband, like, oh, God, how am I going to ground her?

Like, how did you begin to approach this person? Because you put a lot in her that wasn't on the page. And then eventually they wrote for it. Yeah, yeah. I think, honestly, back then, it wasn't even that complex inside of my brain. I think I was just, it was something natural for me to like play into and then the ability to also like be seen and be vulnerable in that is how like you guys got to see Taylor. And then as I came back to it older with more life lessons, more awareness and had the scenes

with Lydia and sisters and got to actually like break down and she. show why Taylor is the way that she is, you know, and expose that a little bit more. I think that's when I really, like, thought about it and had awareness about it. Well, that's, that's the testament to what a good actress you are, that you're just so in the moment that, you know, you just show up and it comes out of you, regardless of, you know, whether there's been a lot to work with so far or not, you know. I, God, I wish you were in this episode. That would have been. really fun to see Z. Taylor.

I think Deb sort of took over the mischief role in this episode, but I think we have to get to Dan first before we talk about Deb. I don't know if they're really, well, okay, yeah, let's start. Should we start with Dan? Should we start with Dan? Dan,

I had so many, I had so much, I was so confused during this whole episode because I was like, why is he why is he doing all this stuff in front of an open window and why is like why are people stalking him from like directly outside the window where he can see them in their car like it's just so dumb to me um and i kind of had that like he's not going to see lucas sitting in a car in the center of the dealership i know and then and he told him the deal like i own the security company that installed your cameras and yet dan still opens up his safe in front of the camera it just all seemed so choreographed and i I just wasn't buying it. And then we find out it was choreographed. He was building an escape room for Lucas. For Lucas.

And Lucas failed, of course, because Dan once again outsmarted everyone. But he outsmarted everyone in the dumbest way possible. I know. Like, I just couldn't believe that Deb wouldn't know that she owns the company and she would be taking that risk. Like, why was that? a surprise. She's such a smart woman. I didn't get it. She should have signed something at one point, right, with her name on it. Maybe she forgot because of all the pills. Maybe. I mean, because it's been so long, like Dan got the, as the story goes, Dan got the loan from Deb's parents,

I guess right after high school, or, you know, when he quit playing ball midway through college to start the business. So, you know, that's at least, what, 18 years ago or something. But this can't be the first time in history, somebody's owned a business and someone who was a co-owner or technically working for them or whatever did shady shit. And then the owner of the business had to, you know, report them. Yeah, it was liable or something. I don't know. Why wouldn't she just go to the police and be like, this was happening without my knowledge? He would make it look like it was with her not. I mean, that's the point is, is what it really plays into is this overarching theme of he does the work to entrap people.

And I think that's what was so surprising, you know, for our friends at home, the three of us, while we watched this episode today, were just kind of shocked at how overtly abusive and scary it is. You know, to watch a woman, a character like Deb say we have to get out and then not know that she'll be able to. It kind of gave me chills at moments, you know, because especially in more recent years, as we've had conversations as a society about why women often can't just leave. I was like, my God, we really leaned hard

in these episodes into a controlling husband storyline in a way that I was like, oh, this doesn't feel like entertainment to me. This feels really dark and scary. It's real. It's very real.

And they've been building up Dan's I don't know a dastardliness is a light funny word for something that's much darker but they've been they've been building up the vileness of his character maybe as more accurate over the last I mean you guys didn't see the last episode

but that was the one where Moira Karen goes into the office to yell at him about something and before she walks out he grabs her and like kiss he forces her to kiss him and then she She, of course, picks up a chair and throws it through the giant glass window. But, yeah, there's just been a massive, massive pattern with him.

And it's alarming that Nathan and Deb are even having a conversation so casually about it. Like, Dad's never going to let us go. I'll find a way out. But it's not a hushed, dramatic, scary conversation. It's just, it's like daily just conversational. And that's what's so disturbing about it, that it's so normal. I wonder if they wanted to push further and further into that disturbing energy because they had the plan of setting the dealership on fire at the end of the season.

Yeah, they had to make us hate him so much. They had to make everyone hate Dan so much that people would be happy to potentially, you know, see him injured or die. He's like you're a redeemable at this point. He's gone through a heart attack. He's, like, died and came back to life, basically. He's had so many chances where he's come back and been like, I'm a new man. And then, nope, nope, nope, nope.

So, yeah, I think he's like, he's outrun his nine lives. And, I mean, as we know, that he doesn't die. But he has 25 lives. Even Whitey hates him. But we couldn't figure out why. That was so weird. I was so confused as to why Dan said he was going to get Whitey kicked out as the coach because he meddled.

I'm like, but what did Whitey do? He showed up to greet Deb. And then what? Like, we didn't see anything. He took her on a walk, but we don't know what happened. Do they cut it out? That was a miss. That was a miss to not know what happened.

Yeah. What'd you say? That's the next season maybe there. But it was just so, yeah. It probably will be revealed. It must be revealed. Unless there was a line of something. I mean, what? Well, you just sounded like a radio announcer. It must be revealed. Oh, my God, I loved that. Come back next week. It must be revealed. We're going to see what happened.

Yeah, that was pretty strange. I mean, it was a very exciting scene. Dan and Whitey over the table in each other's faces like two old cowboys just yelling at each other. But I didn't know what was going. going on? We were so surprised by the rage. Yeah. And I thought Whitey might have been the one who in the end was poisoning Dan. I love that trick. The poisoning. Ooh, in the scotch.

Here's a weird. For everything you've done. Everything you've done. This is a really weird piece of trivia, but I think I texted you and Hillary about this the other day, so that the woman in the like 17. hundreds in Italy who was selling beauty products. She was selling beauty

products but they were actually tinctures and powders and things that looked like a compact for powder, you know, back then, but it was really powder poison for women to poison their husbands. And she had this whole ring of women who were selling

the product for her and going out and so the men thought their wives were just going shopping for beauty products and coming home but then there was this like massive scattering of dead husbands throughout the Mediterranean region. Hey, the abusers got what was coming to them. Yeah, apparently. What a story. I know.

So Deb jumped on the train of a legacy long existing. What country was this? In Italy. Italy. Wow. She was using, what was the poison? I'll go find it. I can't remember.

We'll send you the article. It's fascinating. Oh, it's super interesting. But, yeah, I'm for sure it was Deb. I thought for a second maybe it was Keith, too, at the dealership at the end. I think it's Deb. I think it's Deb, too, with that black leather. Only Deb would put black leather on.

Yeah, especially because they gave us the misdirect in the Dan and Whitey fight. Whitey is like, you're going to burn. You know, they want you to think it's whitey, but it's not. It's too obvious. And I think especially Barbara has such a beautiful opportunity in this episode and she plays the scene so well, you know, coming home and realizing it's more manipulation on Dan's part. And for her, that line in the sand of Dan told Nathan it was all his fault.

It's like there's nothing she won't stop at to protect her son. Yeah. And it's really interesting. You know, her talking about being very clear for the first time. She's determined in a way we haven't seen before. Yeah, for sure. She feels a little more empowered. She's like the Italian poison lady.

She is. She's ready to go. Yeah. She's following a long tradition of poisoning wives. I love it. I love it. I thought she was beautiful in the episode. I also thought James was so good.

he um he does this thing sometimes where he really does feel like a 16 year old boy he he leaned into he was i mean like yeah what was he yeah that's probably why um but he would he would really lean into that like young boy kind of combination of of anger and hurt and and he was never ashamed to show that to be vulnerable like that and And you see him feeling like his world is falling apart. He has to move back in with Dan. You know, he finds out Lucas's lied to him. He finds out Haley has sent the annulment papers.

It's all, it's all just painful. And like early days, Nathan kind of comes out. Yeah. Where he's got boundaries, he knows how to stand up for himself. He may not have known how to use those boundaries before, but he's growing into his own as a young man. It's cool to see. I love that for Nathan.

Yeah, and when he's in pain, it makes you sad. You're like, oh, no, not more. Not more for our guy. I'm just asking our producers what the Tennessee Williams quote was because I'm liking the quotes that we're having on these episodes. The last one was the George Bernard Shaw quote that said there are two great tragedies in life to lose the desires of one. heart and then to gain them. And I like this Tennessee Williams quote too, which I'll tell you what that is in a second.

But I think it's kind of fun to talk about the concept of what these are. In the meantime, Brooke, can we talk about Brooke? She had the best dialogue in this episode. You had so much fun. It was so fun. It was great. Okay, Brooke, was this the first appearance of Hose Over Bros? I don't know.

I don't know. It really might have been, or maybe it just hit hard. We're going to need the fans to answer that question first. Part of me wonders if when Brooke invented the selfie in season one with the Polaroid camera, I'm going to hold on to that really forever. If she said it to Peyton, I don't remember,

but it, we all, when we heard it went, Well, Brooke, I mean, she had, okay, first Lucas, then Jake, now Nathan, I guess slutty is in season, funny. And then because I'm leaving tomorrow for the summer, maybe forever, and my best friend is having pseudo-indicent foreplay with kind of married guys. That was great. Which is kind of a fun tie-in with her walking in on, you didn't watch this. Last episode, Brooke and Lucas came to New York to see Haley and they walk in and she's on the

couch doing the exact same thing that Peyton and Nathan were doing with Chris. Like, giggling and tickly and stuff. And then this one, phantom feelings, like, when you lose a leg and try and scratch it, Lucas was my gangrene infected, amputated leg. I really loved it all. I loved when they gave me that kind of comedy to work with. It was just always such a blast. Well, what I loved is in the end when Lucas kisses you, that did surprise me.

That was a nice surprise. It was a really good scene, especially after how intensely uncomfortable the dream sequence was. Because we all, you guys, we all forgot that that was a dream. And so we're sitting here going, this is ridiculous. What guy wrote? What a fantasy. She's in her cheerleading uniform. Like, we were so mad.

And then we were like, oh, yeah, because it's a teenage boy's dream. Got it. Cool. Okay. And so it made the scene between the two of us, between Brooke and Lucas so sweet because you'd seen this very overtly stereotypical dream and then the hilarious comedy of like the cold shower

and they're bickering almost like siblings because they live together at this point. And then the vulnerability in the end was surprising. and I thought was so lovely. He did such a nice job in that scene. I just really, he felt very real and authentic to me. And I really liked, too, watching you start the scene in a really happy, funny, playful place and then have that immediate switch into something really vulnerable.

I always love when actors do that. It's fun to see it because it's like happening in real time. It's so great. Yeah. And it's interesting because it felt like a big payoff. Brooke is growing and learning to be more in touch with her feelings and more responsible with her feelings. And she really is trying to put on a brave face for everyone, thinking that Lucas still has feelings for Peyton. She kind of offers that up to Peyton. She's really

trying to lean into, this is the lesson, and that wasn't good for me, and it really hurts, but I'm going to grow from it. It's so much effort for a young girl. And then all of her sort of strength, the mask she's been putting on of like, I can handle this. He pierces that when he kisses her in the end. And I was surprised, you know,

not remembering the episode at the reaction to it, how much it threw her. I was like, oh, I like this. I like the way we played this. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you guys ever had that happen to you where you're like it's just the worst timing ever and someone tells you drops a like a feelings bomb on you like that and you're just like, what do I do? No, never. I feel like people would be so intimidated to drop a feelings bomb on you, Lindsay.

I know, I know, probably. I'm like, no, I could either like get it out of them or, oh, Lindsay, gee, you know. Yeah. I don't think that's ever happened to me either. And it's making me think of what a big deal it is for a high school boy to do something like that. I think I probably have been the one dropping feelings bombs on people. That tracks. Especially my high school career and with romance.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I definitely went through it once and I will say like, I don't know. I don't know if it's the sort of empathetic nature of my relationships with people. But I for sure wound up in a relationship once because someone was like, but I'm in love with you. And I was like, oh, my God, this must be. it like wow i just didn't see it and then i was like no wait just because i'm into this thing going i was like but i i don't i don't have it's not my responsibility to help you with this feeling

i don't i don't feel this feeling i'm confused how did i get here it can that's why they call it love bombing because it can really like what did you say was it bobby On the playground. I was like, why are you doing this to me? I just want to go on the swings. Can't handle the feelings, Bob. I can't handle them, Bob. It's all Bobby's fault. Oh, my God. There were so many big feelings in this episode. Also, I need to say, especially because of how beautiful that end sequence was, Lavinia by the Vails. Yeah, the soundtrack in this episode. So emotionally. Every song in this episode is so good. Yeah. I want a CD of just a CD. How old am I? I want to see. I would like a laser disc, please. Could someone make me a mixtape of this soundtrack? Just this episode. It's so great. It was so good. I actually found an old tape player the other day. Like a cassette deck? Yeah. It was like a thing.

that opens up and you put you slide the tape in and then you close it and then you push play a walkman yeah what was it called no it's for recording it's like got a big speaker the rectangle with the speaker on one side yeah yeah love it that reminds me of like the era of risky business oh yeah i couldn't find any tapes though who keeps tapes around do you guys still have any tapes I don't know. I think I threw away my discs. Yeah. I went through like a real Marie Condo phase before Marie Condo was a thing.

And I just was like, these, these like books of CDs are making me feel stressed. It's the opposite of sparking joy. And I like took them all apart and recycled everything. I was like, I got to get out of here. And now I kind of regret it. I'm like, man, I had like a pretty wild CD library in high. school and maybe I should have kept it, but probably not. Well, this episode, we had some amazing songs in this episode. Where's the list? I want to see. Is that in our... Well,

well, Andrew Paul Woodriss did that really emotional cover of Fight for Your Right to Party. It was like a love song on a guitar in the beginning that was so good. And then we went into the wreckers. We went into that Susie Suss song, Petrified to Be Godlike. and then cracks in the sky. I mean, everything, audio slave. It was all just so good and poignant. And I don't know. Our musical supervisors, I think,

especially by the end of season two, had gotten our show in such a good place. Yeah. Known for being a place that broke bands and broke new songs. And so I feel like suddenly we were entering into this era where we really had kind of

of the pick of the litter in terms of music in every moment is so good. Which not every show gets that. I was like, how did you guys get the rights to all of these songs? That was our thing. It became our thing because, you know, Gossip Girl had the glam element. They had the sort of the younger, the younger crowd sex in the city version. Like the kids that weren't allowed to watch Sex and the City were allowed to watch Gossip Girl.

But, you know, and they had that, that was kind of their thing. So we got music, which I love. I'm so much happy about that because it's just have so much more substance to it than fashion. God forbid a fashion designer listen to this and think that I'm bashing fashion because I do love fashion. There is, I guess, substance in the art of that. But you know what I'm saying in terms of the music. I loved that we brought that on our show. Me too.

Are you musical at all, Lindsay? Not at all. No. I took singing lessons for a very, short while and I was able to get to the point where I could hear, you know, the actual resonance that, like, was me that came from me one day. And I was like, who's that? That's incredible. But you didn't follow through with it? You didn't want to keep going? I was like, this is going to take so long. It's just not my memory. I'm just like, I can't. It wasn't my thing.

What are your outlets? Like, for me, singing and musical, you know, for a lot of musicians, that is the outlet. So for someone who's not musical, what do you love to do? There's like a pole dance, sensual, creative, artistic dance that I do with a group of women that is phenomenal. Awesome. Me in the fullness of like my being and my power and my sensuality is like next level. And then you get to like have the patience with women while doing that is like that's where like the most of my joy comes from. Is it a class or do you do performances? where ideally we would like to do performances um during COVID we lost our studio and so now women have like formed a little smaller intimate together and tomorrow we're going and doing like

one of our first workshops at a new kind of Moroccan studio whoa but it's our dream to have a studio that also has like you can have tea and you can have a sauna and you can you know like yes membership type of a thing and then also to get on stage with it or do you know kind of intimate performances wow that's cool it's you've got to be really strong for that pole dancing is I've done a few aerial arts classes I've been starting to get into that I think I've probably done like 10 classes now and I'm I love it uh it's been hard for me to be consistent because I travel so much but um it's requires so much more strength than you think it does um yeah body gets used to it obviously it's much easier kind of second nature but yeah because it how long did it take

before it started to feel really easy not easy but you know like it's so long ago and i've gone through so many different iterations of it like sometimes sometimes i don't even do any pull tricks and I'm just like, you know, using the floor for everything. I remember I went through like, I think there were six levels you could get through. And I like learned the tricks and could do cool things, but it hadn't really integrated smoothly into my body and my fluid conversation yet. I left and came back and then I really feel like I figured out who I was through dance and the story like my being and my body's telling and then that happens sometimes like nature just kicks in and I'll be upset down on the pole and I'll be like I don't know how I got here it's just

muscle memory and that's just what like my erotic creature wanted to do at the time so you're doing like what Jennifer Lopez did in hustlers I mean kind of I mean that was amazing wow she was well. Yeah, yeah, but it's also, it's like, it's also tribal. It's also primal and like, you know, what we used to do probably the way women used to move when we were in village and we were telling story and song and dance. So it has that element to it as well. Very visceral. Well, and it's interesting too because so much of women's connection to their bodies has been a visceral. And it's because of patriarchal shame. Like, sex is bad.

Sensuality's bad. But that's also so often through the male gaze. And, like, to get women back into, as you're, the words you're using make me feel so inspired, like, it's primal feminine energy. It's powerful. It's sensual. It's like when you hear people talk about goddess energy, like recognizing the sacred of the feminine is it's so much more elevated. and spiritual than many of the ways I think women have been, quote, allowed to be in their bodies.

And when you watch women in their bodies do this and be embodied in this, you realize why it was so threatening is the most miraculous, powerful thing you've ever seen in your entire life. And like, holy shit, in a wonder, this had to be squelched. You know, it was very, like, whether it just wasn't the time or whatever, it's going to take a really strong masculine to be able to handle the power of the true feminine. Yeah, I agree with that for sure. Yeah, that's so cool. Hopefully we're moving into that. Well, talking about another badass female, Cheryl Lee made her appearance in this episode, and she's got much more to come. Ellie Harp. I mean, wow, I was so excited for Laura Palmer. I mean, I was like totally geeking out when she came on

the show is super excited. But yeah, I was super stoked for her to come. Yeah. And it was so cool, too, to see Peyton in this moment where she's having a hard time and trying to keep it all together. And Ellie comes in and the way that Cheryl played it, she kind of like got under Peyton's mask really quickly and matched her energy in a similar way that most adults don't. Yeah. And And you see it. Like her choices made this kind of maternal connection feel right. Like in the reveal at the end, you go, oh, this makes all the sense in the world. And I just, I thought that was so beautiful.

My name's Elizabeth, like your middle name. Yeah. It gave me chills. That was nicely done. Oh, I'm so excited. Also, how cool to know the origin story of the jacket. Like, Hillary's talked so much, Lindsay, on our show about, you know, she has that jacket. from that's like her favorite memento from one tree hill ellie's leather jacket and and i i forgot

i knew it was hers but i forgot about the whole courtney love story and you know her being this rock and roll journalist and i was like oh my god peyton's jackets corny loves jacket like it was so that was so great i loved it um guys i think we've got like eight minutes or something left with lindsay so can we do some fan questions oh yes okay Let's do it. Where are they? Let's see. From Heather, is it common on TV shows to have different directors for each episode? If so, why is that? And if not, why did y'all seem to have so many directors? That's a good question.

I liked this question. Oh, yeah. You guys have so many. Yeah, it's common. A different director usually does a different episode. Yeah. Network, it's really common. I think cable, they tend to have a very much smaller pool. That's true. Well, so, and the reason is it's about the way we shoot, because when you're shooting a network

show, you are filming while the show is airing. And for the folks at home, directors don't just come in and start directing on day one. If a show shoots for eight days, like ours did, the directors also get eight days of prep, which is when they go on location scouts, they meet with the DPs, they visit every set. They select all the wardrobe for their episode. They're working on the script. So they have eight days of prep, eight days of shooting, and then they have another eight days of post-production

when they are editing their episode, you know, cutting the scenes, picking the music. And so it actually takes much longer to direct an episode than just the amount of time that filming takes. And so the person who is directing, let's say, episode 11, is prepping while episode 10 is shooting. And then likewise, it continues. And so there has to be a different director in each episode

so that they can rotate through the season and stay on schedule for some cable shows like Joy's talking about. If it's like, let's say it's a six-episode mini-series, they have all six episodes written and locked and wardrobe done exactly before they start shooting. And then they'll have one director do that whole project for like three months. but in network TV they rotate so they can do pre they can do prep shooting and post in blocks I also didn't realize you guys were of the era of doing 22 23 episodes that was rough

it was rough I don't think anybody does 22 anymore no I don't think so I don't know we we survived barely barely which feels crazy oh this is funny from olivia she said Olivia says what do you do when you're supposed to shoot all day but you wake up sick i i clearly had a cold in the last episode you could hear my voice did you do you get sick days and do they have to cancel shooting or film a different scene if you can't make it uh it depends on how sick you are you just basically have to take some suit of that or whatever yeah i mean if you the thing is don't come to work if you you are, if you have the flu, I've never seen anybody come to work with the, like a proper flu where you're, oh, you have, like, growing up and, I have like fever. I had all this stuff going on

and I was like, you're still, you work, you just work. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Well. Yeah. I, the only time I remember us ever changing the schedule in nine years was when one of our coworkers got really sick and was in the hospital for two days. And unless, literally, they expect you to come to work unless you're in the hospital. And I actually, on a show years ago, I was working in Chicago. I had meningitis. I spent 36 hours in the emergency room. I was really, really sick.

And they literally came and pulled me out of the hospital and took me to work. They were like, it doesn't matter. You got stand in the corner. You got to be in the scene. We don't have anything left to shoot that you're not in. Oh, my gosh. It was, it was insane. But, you know, it's kind of...

That's such a lack of creativity. Sorry. It's a lack of creativity, but it's also, you know, a show is kind of like, it's a bureaucracy. It's so big. It's hundreds of people doing a job. So there isn't really room to miss one person. It throws the whole machine off.

So it can be really complicated, which is... It does. complicated, yeah. There's no understudy. Yeah, there's no understudy. It's not like theater. I do wonder how us getting a little clearer on public health with the pandemic and how actually crazy it is that people used to go to work when they were sick. I wonder how that will affect our industry, if it will, if it'll matter. I don't think it's crazy to go to work when you're sick. I think like, it's just part of being, getting sick is part of being alive. It's part of life. It is. But if you're like actively contagious,

It's so disrespectful. Like, I don't know. Everybody knows. Like, everybody does the thing is everyone knows. If you show up sick, everyone knows that you're there and you're sick. So they just stay away from you. And, you know, you just don't do your kissing scene or whatever. And or you just like load up on vitamin C.

And you're like, I'm in a scene with somebody who's sick today. I hope I don't catch it. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her. story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, anyway, we have a wheel. we have a most likely two wheel to spin. Yeah, we don't know the answers on public health, everybody, but we do have a wheel and we're excited to spin it with Lindsay. Okay. Who is most likely to? That's funny. When the worst cook in America?

Would this actually be like Taylor or Rachel? I just don't see Taylor is the kind of girl who spends a lot of time, like nurturing a meal. She probably microwaves an egg or something, you know. Yeah. The best again. Like a little quick dish. I will say, so you don't feel alone in it.

Brooke Davis did set a turkey on fire in season seven over Thanksgiving. Yeah. I love to cook, but no, my alter ego was bad in the kitchen for comedy's sake. What about in real life? Who's a terrible cook in real life? I don't actually know. I'm impressed with all of us in the kitchen. Who's bad?

I used to never cook until the pandemic. And then I really got into it for a while. Oh, really? How'd you start? Did you like download an app or what was it? No, I had a girlfriend who is a chef and she started making a couple dishes around me. And I was like, this is so good. And she's like, it's so easy.

So I just started making what she made. And then I started incorporating a whole bunch of different things. And I was like, this is really cool. And I'll just wing it. Yeah, that's a hard one to answer with actors because artists are typically creative. You know, I don't know. I would think that extends. Yeah, that kind of extends in the kitchen.

I don't know. It's a lot to be, but. Say love me. Well, it's been fun speculating. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so glad. that you came. Thank you. Next week we've got episode one of season three. We're finally out of season two. Hallelujah. Woo! Okay, that was a rough one. So next one is called Like You Like an

Arsonist. I think this is a pretty famous episode actually. I think so. So I'm excited to see what happens. And Lindsay, I really hope that you'll come back and join us for for more, especially episodes that you're in, because I would like to talk with you then. do that, especially with our scenes and stuff, too. That would be wonderful. Yeah. You know what? You really have to be here for is that the pool scene, the big pool. Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, lots more to come. Thank you guys for joining us. We'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks, everybody. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-TH.H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl Cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl Drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different but native culture is alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop.

That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.