Drama Queens - Tears and Junk with Cullen Moss ᐧ EP622

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

Cullen Moss is back!! He shares an intriguing and unknown insight into Junk’s backstory.  Tons of tears were shed for this episode and a deep conversation unfolds regarding the lessons learned from OTH.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. you guys

we're with our favorite Colin Maas is here just stuffing everybody just get out of my lane I'm here to win Jumpay McReady is not to be messed with Can I get you a jersey

that says that please I would love it Okay so this is a big sad episode and Colin's here to make it better so thank God because we just we just wept through 6.22.

Take care of us. Okay. Sophia, tell them what we watched. Guys, we watched season six, episode 22, show me how to live. It aired May 4th, 2009. Colin, do you want to hit your little chat icon

and read us the synopsis? You know I do. Brooke and Haley throw Peyton a baby shower while Sam grows closer to Victoria. Lucas and Jamie Bond while working on Peyton's car, and Nathan learns that NBA scouts will be at his next game. Meanwhile, Antoine and Lauren go on a date that goes all were wrong.

Whoa. Directed by James Lafferty. James's first episode. There we go. That's crazy. How old was he in 2009? Like 22? Was he?

I don't know. It's like, it's insane seeing everybody in this, like in these episodes. I mean, and especially, like, especially the, the dudes for some reason, because, like, I'm not, I'm not blowing smoke, but you ladies are, have, are very unchanged to me. More smoke, please. Thank you. You go right ahead. Well, I mean, it's, it's true, but I mean, and I look at like all these. dudes in there awkward still like we're still becoming me phase yeah I like this episode because

everybody had something to do and even though it was really like everybody was doing something a little different um especially Brooke and her spy wardrobe and the Dunkin' Donuts commercial I was like the full head scarf and the gloves I loved it but I was like all right well now that that's out of the way she could focus on her dramatic arc of trying to adopt a child. Loved it. I loved it. Troubled Sam. I know. Yeah, having everybody have their own storyline is always really fun.

And I love the boys' apartment. We do this thing on the show, Colin, where we give honorable mentions. And I can't tell you how many times the boys in the apartment has gotten the honorable mention. Yeah. The couch dwellers. Yeah, it's just the realest part of the show. You know, Sophie is trying to adopt a teenager and who knows what Payton's doing, you know? And the boys are just eating pizza playing video games. It's so nice. Yeah. Especially with some people in their early 20s, which our characters are supposed to be, like, Brooke Davis runs this giant multi-million dollar company and Nathan's in the NBA and everybody's buying houses. And like, even you guys,

like, Lucas and Peyton are just living in a house. His mom was like, you can have this kids. I'm going off on a yacht. Like, it's so simple. And thank God we've got some boys who are roommates ordering pizza because, you know, we were all trying to figure out, like, how to be and pay rent and stuff. We didn't know. We didn't know anything. And I love that we have some characters that are based in reality. Yeah, the truth of arrested development. Yeah.

Well, is it even arrested? it's actually like normal natural progression yeah that's exactly what I was doing in the 22 and only you know I always I think there is this implication

that that some paraphernalia had just been set down before the camera had us like I don't like often yeah that's fun I wonder what like what were junk's goals in high school like did he ever have a

crush on someone. We didn't see a lot of junk's, like secrets. So what was the backstory that you created in your head? Oh, God. I wish that I was that thoughtful back then sometimes. I could make something up

right now. You were like, I'm just here for the craft service. I love this. What do you want me to say flippantly? Okay. I mean, I'm sure junk did. there is like and and I think I think I did just have like this junk was just like

anyone just fucking anyway come on something kiss anything there was one thing of like a brief element of of me showing a picture and I don't remember of whom to to the guys saying oh it's this girl I met at camp she lives in Canada you know you know it was a it was the bullshit I love that thing that junk just has this imaginary this imaginary girlfriend somewhere but by the way that happens until my wedding

everyone was like okay Hillary I'm sure you have a boyfriend and that was the first time anyone met Jeffrey they were like oh he's real crazy it's been a decade people do that all the time we bought it totally normal okay well Peyton all she's ever wanted to do since high school is Mary Lucas Scott and have his baby and here we are. It's going to kill her. Yeah, what is that metaphor?

Girl, I don't know. The thing that you want is going to kill you? Weird. Set your sights low. Just be like junk and just let life happen. Just be along for the ride. You know, what I love, and this is what I was starting to expand on when I realized I was no longer even on the Zoom. I was just talking to myself but the container for this episode and probably the reason that I sobbed through the whole thing

opening the show on you like Michael Keaton in my life I was like oh god and this sort of beautiful thing like we always did these season enders you know that it had a big

story and this for you, I thought it was just so impactful. And God, you're so good sitting, like, trying to keep it together, talking to that video camera. And James did such a good job with this episode. Like, you can feel the container of Peyton's experience doing what you're doing on screen with that box for the baby. And I love that it turns in meaning for Lucas, thanks to Jamie. He's Like your whole life's in that box. I wish I had one of those. And he gets it.

He gets what you're doing, and it shifts everything. But this sort of sad, happy duality, you played so beautifully. And I think you guys designed, you know, the whole episode around it so well. I mean, even the baby shower, it's like happy and it's really sad all at the same time. It was Peyton's saying goodbye to everyone, right? Well, and that's why I kept sobbing. I was like, oh, God. It was a cool way to see everyone, to see, like, our friends from the River Court, to see, you know, Haley and Nathan.

If you ever want a mom and dad fix, like, go to them. Make sure you pick the best, best friend. These are the songs you're going to listen to. It really was a way for Peyton to touch on everything. Because, I mean, in my mind, filming this, let's just get to the behind-the-scenes dirt. In my mind filming this, they're going to kill me, right? Is that what you thought, Colin? Were you like, they're killing this chick?

She's dead meat. It's done. And they're letting her do it, you know, they're letting her do it gracefully and poetically. Yeah, we're just going to put her on a raft, push her down the river. She's going to be fine. Peyton is saying goodbye to everyone because we were in contract renegotiations. And this is a signal to Hillary, you're dead, babe. Like, we're done.

And I was just, you know, you get the script and you're like, huh. You're like, oh, this is what it's like. We discussed in the last episode how when Chad and I were shooting the last episode, that's when they announced that the show was coming back, but they had not offered either of us contracts. And it was basically them being like, we're good. You can leave. And we were just like, oh, well, all right, cool story. So then, well, I finished filming. And I was like, you know what I'm going to do in this situation?

I'm going to go back home to Sterling Park. And I'm probably going to go kiss some dudes from high school and have a couple beers. And then I'm going to figure out a plan. And so remember we had our Southern Gothic productions, the production company that I started down there? Yes. Yes. Yes. And you had just made a movie with Nick Austin and I.

You know, like we were doing fun stuff, but I had before social media. a production web page. Remember when we had like vlogs? Yep. The world of the vlog. I remember when people had vlogs, yes. Yeah. So I was like, I'm going to post a vlog because news has been out that the show's getting picked up, but I'm not.

So I posted a video that, you know, has like so many views on the internet at this point where I was like, I have no control over the creative. And I'm really sad. I love Peyton. I'm not coming back, but still watch the show. It was a big deal. It was a really big deal. And it dispelled those rumors of someone had gone to the press and put out all these rumors that I wasn't coming back

because I was demanding lots of money and being difficult. When in reality, I was willing to take less money so that all the other actors could get favored nations and get paid more. And so I was butt-heard about it. that. So I put out this video and then I get this script. And I'm like, okay, fine. I'm gone. Like, what more do you want for me? So James is directing and he's, you know, 22, maybe 23 years old. If we were 26 when this happened, how much younger is James? Four years, right? All right. So he's 22. And he's doing a beautiful job and I see how important it is to him and how much we need to keep the drama.

at bay. Like, we just need to show up and do our jobs. And so Chad comes and he's ready to cry and I show up and I've got to cry and every fucking scene. And our boss finally crawled out from under his rock and came to set in the middle of Peyton having to do the video confessionals. And it's not lunch break. It's not any kind of break. And I hear, all right, we're going to be taking a 20 minute break. And I'm just like, oh no. And he calls me into the kitchen set. And You guys don't remember that set, right? Yeah. The walls go up.

They go up like nine feet, but then it's just open air. So you can hear every conversation. I get my ass chewed for 20 to 30 minutes for everybody to hear. You're going to take that video down. You're going to take that video down. And I'm just like, you know, I'm not. I'm not going to take it down. I'm not going to do any of it.

And so against the background of Peyton, having to do all this very sad stuff is just bedlam going on. And I was like, okay, all right. I want to go to the boys set. I want to eat pizza. I want to pick up whatever parapher the boys have on their set because everything seems so much safer over there. Can I get a slice and a water gun?

Like, I want to get out of here. Get me over there. It was crazy. And so watching this episode back, I'm like, we did a really good job for this much crazy. We did a really good job. job and you know what's wild like god you talking about that it like gives me chills the public ass chewing is always a drink did you ever get one of those cullen not on not on that show

um they feel yeah i mean it's just i just i mean what what what what could i do uh on that show that would warrant i mean uh no but ask for more for some other i mean no not like that and how just how shitty and just how shitty. Sorry. You were a safe boy. You sure were. And it was interesting because you guys were obviously having your storyline. But with all of us girls with you, this episode was really when it hit me that this was like happening. We were trying to do things as a block. We were, you know, we had learned, which was obviously the network's nightmare. We'd learned the lessons not to say that we were ever going to get paid what they did.

But like, we were like, oh, the Friends cast negotiated as a group. Well, guys, we're just like Friends. Who would you be on Friends, Cullen? The Coffee Shop guy. Stop. No, you would have been Chandler. Okay, I'll take it. You're so funny.

But, like, when things were happening behind the scenes and you were like, oh, they're going to, they're going to, like, blow up the plan. There are people who've blown up our plan. And particularly for you and I, like, this is when, you know, Brooke and Peyton and me and you, like. People as in other cast members that blew it out. I mean, I'm just going to keep it classy. But, you know, we, Hillary and I were so enmeshed. And during this episode, it hit me and then being there for our boss saying all the terrible things in the open air set.

Like, I was like, oh, my God, this is really happening. Like, she, they're really, this isn't like a tactic. Like, is this really going to be real? They're not really going to let them leave. Like, this can't be real. And I remember sitting in that baby shower with you and just being like, but you make everything better for me. And we were having this, like, insanely surreal experience where we were grieving on camera

and having to be like, it's going to be okay. but it's never going to be okay and and yeah like we didn't know if peyton was even going to live like you know were they going to do the dirty thing when like you know somebody on a cop show does something bad and then they get shot and they die is that how it works colin is that how it works you get to kill all of the bad actors no no i don't get i don't shoot doesn't kill anybody i i it was almost me in season one of outer banks and not and not adina porter who'd you pay piss off. I've, no, I didn't.

Good for you. I did, I did something that kept me around. I don't know. Good. Yeah. You're lovely. That's what it is. That's because I'm lovely.

But isn't it crazy how your behavior behind the scenes or just like the circumstances you're wrapped up in affect what happens to your character? Because it's like, do we want more of this? Do we want less of this? They kept junk around for nine years. Like, junk could have died at any moment. We were killing all sorts of people. Junk almost disappeared.

When? Like season three or season two or three. And I found out because I was delivering a gripper electric equipment to one of the stages and was asking for, you know, I don't remember how I got a script, but I'd go and I'd get a script. I was looking and I started seeing that Fergie was showing up in episodes without me. You know, it was always smoking fire, right? There was always Fergie and junk. Yeah.

I was like, huh? I was like, Vaughn's in this episode. And I'm not, okay, he's going on this little adventure. Well, that's cool. And, but after a while, it was just silence. And so I emailed and I said, hey, just curious. Like, if things have run their course, they've run their course, I just, I'd like to be apprised. And the response came back to like, yeah, I don't know that we have really.

a solid point of view for your character. I don't know this and that. And then the final blow, and there's this age difference. And, you know, you don't really, it's hard to sell you as things. He failed two grades, guys. What do you want from him?

He's trying. Things are happening physiologically with you. No, I mean, that was not said aloud. But I wrote back. I said, okay. I said, okay, I get it. I said, but how about? I said, I've never been established as a high school student.

I said, I've been at the River Court games. I said, you never see me in the hallways with a backpack. You never like, I'm not in class. I said, what if I'm like the kind of weird older guy at the river court that just can't let go of high school and can only have the high school. and can only have the high school friends that like to play ball with. I was like, what if I'm the guy that gets the beer?

What if I'm the guy that gets the beer? What if I'm the guy that knows? You saved yourself. Yeah. And I was like, and I did that. And I said that and he's like, well, yeah, I'll think about it. And so when I got, when they brought me back, I was kind of rolling with that assumption.

I'm like, okay, that's who I am. And it gave me some perspective. But then they put me in prom. And then they had me graduate. And I'm like, but I thought I was the guy. I thought I was the weird dude. By the way, I remember that guy from high school. The guy that buys beer for the freshman, right?

Yeah, somebody's older brother's friend and yeah. I went home for my book tour and he showed up. And I was like, you're still buying beer forever. This incredible is who you are forever. Love it. The guy that hangs out outside to Kroger just waiting for him. Yeah, hey, you need something. You need anything?

I was just going inside anyway. I ain't a big deal. The Kroger. I loved it. Yeah, no, this episode was sad as shit. It was so, everybody was almost crying. It was sad and sweet. And it reminded me what a good,

what a good little actor, Jackson was, too. My boys are acting now, and I'm trying to. How old was Jackson do you think when we shot that? I think he was eight. He was eight? He was six when he started, so he's eight here, right? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. But he was great. And all that. And Hillary, yeah, y'all, you handled that just beautifully, especially knowing about this open air reaming that happened. Well, you know what a terrible temper I have. And so just like, you know how much strength it takes to not tap into a terrible temper? The restraint?

Just for a Southern woman to not go nuts. Especially when somebody's standing in. in front of you, like, pushing the big red button. Oh, my God. Sitting at that kitchen table. And I want to say it was Steve Allen, again, that, like, shuffled through the window, which, like, a broom, right? Just, like, just, like, make it stop.

Just to, like, be like, oh, I didn't know you guys were having a serious conversation. Like, that was always the card he would play. Like, oops, I had no idea something was going on. Anyway, did you hear they have tequitoes? Like, service right now. I mean, he was so wonderful doing stuff like that all the time. And so I got out of this ass framing. But can you imagine if it had been any other director than James, like sweet baby James?

No. They totally took advantage of the fact it was his first episode to be like, hey, we got to take a 30 minute ass chewing break. Can you just stand by and lose 30 minutes of shooting time? Go outside and find something to stare at. Yeah, here's a ball. And then proceed as if it didn't happen. and do the repair work that's necessary, yeah. Go hit your mark, say the words now, good luck, we're on your tighter coverage.

It was such a good learning experience, but he kept the, I mean, I think that would have thrown anybody else, and because he didn't have anything to compare it to, it was just like, okay, we're going to go now, and was great. I mean, he was so calm that you couldn't help but be calm. Like, all right. Yeah. Well, that's done. and I think there was really something too about having one of us sort of holding the container

together during that because the whole experience was so surreal and I think everyone was at different stages of like this isn't really happening right like they're with us and and to it I actually think it worked in our favor to have it be one of us running the show instead of like an adult who we had to pretend. Right. Like, things were normal with. I think there's some, there's obviously a lot of emotion in the undercurrents of the episode

that you can see that plays really beautifully. But I think part of the reason that the episode, as sad as it is, also feels like a hug, is because we were in a safe container with our friend. Yeah, for sure. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And then, you know, even the conversations that Nathan, like the boy relationships on this show, I love so much. Nathan and Lucas together. In the garage, lean in on the comet. Incredible.

Broin out Being guys Is that how guys really talk Cullen Just dudes being dudes Being dudes being dudes Except we sing it And you get to be more of a dude

If you're in a garage Oh you mean Non-theater guys I don't know You mean you weren't a total jock Growing up You don't know how bros Get down

I played soccer That's how bros get down Over the comet It is, I mean, I believe it Yeah My dad was a real man You only need one You know, you just have that one shining example

And then for the whole rest of your life, you can bro out And Nathan and Lucas had Uncle Keith Who taught them to bro out Did you film with Craig? I did rarely I've filmed He was I remember

I was working club trick when he When he was dating What's His character was dating Karen or when he was going to marry Manunoz Maria Mano Jules

Yes But yeah Craig was great Who was my guy on set Just like a Who was your elder bro I mean Mike Rail

life's not that elder i mean i know i don't know i you know i mean who i i loved and i honestly got like the the only person that that like made me a little nervous was barry uh very corbin like just you know i like that was that was the that was the face that i knew and that and was the season veteran i loved lonesome dove and and war games and and Northern Exposure. Totally. And I was like,

Get Maurice's here. They're thinking of a deaf gone forward. You know, whatever. I love. Is there a prequel somewhere where you're playing Young Whitey? Like, that's got to happen. That would be so cool. We're doing a prequel,

Young White, and Camilla. Camilla, I'm coming home. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, that's got my wheels turn in.

One mentor, Michael Dinner. I just put the name out there. Not really. That was just the one director that wasn't that I could remember. From our show or just in life? Did he direct our show once?

Didn't he come in? I don't know. I don't know that name. Well, then we've missed out. We missed out. Okay. So we've got 10 minutes. minutes left with you because you're going to do something are you going to do something fun um i'm going to go

it's uh my my boy emitt is turning eight tomorrow so we're going to a school and we're doing a slide show celebrating our boy at montessori school thing is he the one who's doing a christmas carol is he acting that was louis they both that was louis okay louis louis did a christmas carol and emett right now is working on he's got a recurring role in this show that's shooting in Charlotte he's got the hunting wives stop he's working on that my friend he's doing that show Britney snow yeah that he's Britney's son shut up that's crazy he's playing jack oh my god I can't wait to text her after this you guys we have infiltrated every production in the South East like that's my boy that's so exciting it's been really wild so it was it was

interesting watching Jackson on this and thinking about the parallels and Jackson having got started at six and yeah and it's done some like he's done an indie feature and the indie short and stuff but this is like the first like big scale thing that he's done and louis done a couple things now yeah and i don't know if it's the right thing no it is look at barbara's kids i mean you and your wife are both actors like Barbara's kids are like that that is that is that is that I think is a singular thing I mean they're they're amazing and and I think that that's um they're they're probably an exception to the rule like they're just how well adjusted yeah but so are you that's why everyone calls you for their projects because

you you just bring up your lips the gods yeah you bring you bring a little bit of glimmer to everything that you do. It makes everything feel full on our show when your character is there. And I know you lend that to other productions that you're a part of. And so if there was a storyline

in this episode, you want to junk to infiltrate. Which one of we we got Nathan with the NBA. We've got Brooke trying to get this teenager to be her daughter. We've got Peyton's going to die. They're having the grace to let her go.

If it loves you, it will come back. Hold it with an open hand. Which storyline is junk inserting himself in? Oh, God. What if we find out that junk is Sam's dad? There you go. That's it. That's all right.

You just answered it for me. And who was? So I saw in the credits of this that Juliette Cesario plays Sam's, plays birth mom. And Juliette was a theater friend of mine in Wilmington, but I never saw her in the episode. So they must have cut her. Well, they show her in other episodes. Okay. They only really show Sam and then me and Sam and then in this episode, me watching her.

So it's a lot of like looking in over her shoulder. There's a cute little diner scene of them sitting in the Dixie Grill, but Sam's facing camera and Juliet is facing Sam. So it's a lot of the back of her head, sweet angel. She really came in and did a lot of work to be in mostly MOS scenes. It's a missed opportunity because all I could think is, what a shit mom this lady is making this child come alone at night, bring her own bags in to her house. Why didn't she pick her up?

Pick her up. This is like before Uber and before like I was, and when I was just wondering, Sophia, when you're like, Why didn't I drive her to that house? You're like, you're like, bye. And then she walks out the door, and then you see her, walk, and you're like, is she, is she walking? She's walking? With her duffel bag. Yeah. By the way, I love that Brooks, like, I'm going to love you forever. You'll always have a home here.

I'm always going to do what's best for you. I'm like, but you can't give the kid a ride? No. You're like, but, like, who made this decision? You want to see your mom? How much money would you have paid, though, if when she got to the house, the door, opens and it's junk with his arm around her mom like this is my boy i knew you come back to haunt me yeah no i love it incredible yeah it's my boyfriend he brought some pizza over and see you games we're gonna hang out uh i mean skills date got infiltrated by this chuck kid who has such good

comedic timing he is so funny michael may great he who went on to play um lee the brother of the youngest brother of Lee Norris and myself and Blood Dunn't sign my name. No way! Oh my God, that's amazing. The Tim Tyson Memoir that got made into a movie with Rick Schroeder.

But then the Tree Hill Gang! Woo! But it was crazy. Yeah, like we played siblings and we were a horrible, horrible family. We were the Teel brothers who were awful and racist and committed murder. But, yeah, but fun fact about Chuckie. I love that Michael May's start comes in this episode. And this is also the inception of I got chucked, which really was a piece of verbiage that lasted for a long time on our show.

And I loved it. And I love that Michael May just committed, even as a little boy, he was like, you want me to be the worst? Okay, I'll do it, but I'll manage to be cute. Even with a little Chuckie ventriloquist doll, you're going to love me. And you won't know why. Yeah. And you know, and there are already, they're like, already kind of whispers of the, what was, what led up to a very special episode of because, you know, when she's like his mom, which was kind of thrown away as a joke in this episode. But then it comes into this, like, he's from this horrible abusive family and, and.

Wait, that happens? A little bit. Yeah. Alison Munn really did just make a little joke about drinky, drinking mommy. Yeah, we got to hang with this kid Who's mom's not around Oh my God It goes dark

Beware the seeds that are sown in Tree Hill They grow and grow All right, what else haven't we hit in this episode? How do we feel about Victoria? I have seven pages of notes For this episode This episode was massive I watched it on set last night

Waiting for Dark So all my notes are on the back of sides I'm sorry about taking us down too many rabbit trails. No, babe. Honestly, this episode was so heavy and I really did cry a lot because I think it's every mother's, and fathers, just anybody's worst nightmare

to leave your kids and as a mom and I'm by myself a lot because my husband works out of town. The horror of having to leave a message like that behind is really heavy and then like the horror of what Brooke is going through

of finally loving someone and then being like cool but I found my birth mom so I'm going to go to her house in the dark you know it just hurt so bad so I needed the rabbit holes Colin she needed some levity sir well I'm glad I'm glad to provide yeah it was but yeah there's like this show was like more intricately um thought out than I remember sometimes like yeah I mean it was it was come coming in and out as I did, I was not always aware of what had been happening for a long time. And I wasn't aware of the kind of the continuity that was going on and necessarily of all

the dynamics that had evolved. And so it's interesting anytime I go back and look at it, just what distance and time will do to one's perception of something like that. But it was, it was, it was well done. You guys did do such a beautiful job. Oh, thanks, baby. Yeah. I mean, we're old people now. So watching the show is so like, what in the world? Like, what are we doing here? And it's also that. Yeah, but this was a good one. Yeah, Nathan Scott's going to get to the NBA? I mean, that was, we always joke about how we're all doing different movies at any given time. You know, like somebody's doing a rom-com and someone's doing a horror movie and it's all in the same episode. And so Nathan is doing like a Jordan commercial.

all. He's like, shoes, sports, jump. Slash remember the Titans. Like, the Burgess Jenkins played the coach. And that was from my hometown, from Winston-Salem, North Carolina, went to Summit School where I went. You guys knew each other back home?

Barely. Like, we went to school together. He was a little older. Were you enemies? No, but my brother created, my brother, Jonathan Moss, did like Burgess teaches still teaches acting in Winston

Salem and stuff and and was got some kind of higher profile roles than some of the ones that I started off getting and my brother like would try to create this rivalry he's like you hear what Burgess Jenkins is done

and I'm like yeah we're going he lived we went to this Easter party at a friend's house and old family friends he was like you know who lives next door he's like Burgess Jenkins, you're going to go have a word with him. This is in our adult hit.

Stop. Please, Debbie, have you guys seen each other at conventions since? No. No, he doesn't come. We need to negotiate that. We need to make that happen because I love a hometown rivalry. Well, I can't fight him. He's much bigger than I.

Well, Patton Oswald and I are from the same town, and I'm going to kick his ass. All right. I'll fight Burgess if you fight Patton. We should have like a cage match in just hometown fights, like supermarket parking lot. And the Kroger. Yeah. But you're only allowed to open-handed slap, like no punching. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a good rule. Slap fights. Yeah. God, this is going to be the best convention ever. We adore you. I adore you. Thank you for giving us your morning. We love you.

Absolutely. What a joy. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford, Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

That's sweet, sweet man. I know. He's a good time. The last convention I was at, I always end up in like a booth with Collins somewhere, and we, like, the pictures that show up the next day are just like, what were we talking about? Because the giggle fits, like the sweats and the giggle fits and just, yeah, yeah, he's a good person to stay up and just, like, talk shit with till 2 o'clock in the morning. Oh, I love that. I was on set.

I got home at 6.30 this morning because we're on overnights. And we hit that point around 3 a.m. Mm-hmm. Where two of our actors were outside, like, doing something really serious. We were all trying to be quiet upstairs in this, like, remote cabin house. and me and my sweet co-worker Amaya's mom made eye contact and we both just started choking on our laughter and then all the kids are done we were rolling on the floor just like crying tears laughing and i was like oh my god and it really reminded me of like our overnights in wilmington oh my god but when we shot at the cabin remember we'd get in trouble for that Paul directed it. Paul was so mad at us.

Shut the fuck up. We were like, God, knock it off. Giggle fits. All right, so walk me through these seven pages of notes because I know that you did your homework and I want to honor your homework. Well, and I know you want to avoid talking about this episode because it's emotional and it's triggering. You know what it is? It's just, and it was nice to have Cullen here to kind of like soften it because I don't

want to ruin it for the fan base and be like, this is the bullshit that happened, you know, all of season six. But I can look at it as a 41-year-old woman and be like, that is a 26-year-old who's having to deliver some really serious subject matter for any woman at home. Like, we're also carrying the weight of experience. So anyone who's watching the show who's dealt with pregnancy loss or fertility problems or death or, like, the loss of a mother. I mean, we know how heavy it is. Toss so many problems into that. And so you have to deliver a performance that's respectful.

I couldn't phone it in. Meanwhile, I've got a grown-ass man being an idiot, and you and I can't, we can't look at each other without bursting into tears. Oh my God, Sophia, this whole episode, every time you and I made eye contact, it was like, don't do it, don't do it. Don't you do it. I know, we started, I remember starting to add that in because it was like, they were just like, please stop crying.

And we were like, but we can't. Yeah. Because it is that thing, like, it, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, felt that that sort of um visceral sense memory watching it same because you know for me playing brook she's like my best friend can't leave and i'm sitting there going you're not really going right like they're they are with us because you know again it's been a long time and one of the things that really bothers me about any drama that ever went down on our show is we've all grown up. We ride really hard for each other. Oh, yeah. Um, you know, it really is that sort of family

dynamic of like, I might have been mad at this person or that person or you might have been mad at this person or that person for something, but like, we can talk about it. Nobody else is ever allowed to talk about anybody or will come for them, you know? Yeah. And I want to be respectful of the fact that, like, people are very different than they were then. Oh, my God. We're all like totally grown up. And I think now, you know, Hillary Bird, at 41 years old is on a job, and they say, babe, rides over, right? I don't care because I've got a husband and kids in a life, but when you're 26, the job is your life, and it felt so fatal. Yes, but I also want to go ahead and say, like, you're being a big person. I know we're

all trying to do that, but it's not just because you have a life, and it's not just because we were younger and knew less then, it's also because what happened was just really fucked up. And it was very hard to have a plan amongst us and have that plan be betrayed. Yeah. Like that was really hard and really hurtful. And to watch people be casualties of it, the surrealism of this episode was like, oh, my God, our characters are what-ifing. And we're really what-ifing. And one of the things I will say, like, looking back, I'm really proud of us.

I'm really proud of the way we showed up. I'm really proud of you. I'm proud of the way you performed in this episode. And, like, it wasn't lost on me that there was this really beautiful parallel. And we talked about it with Colin for a second with the boys in the garage, with James and Chad, leaning on that comet and having this talk. And James, one of the things I loved about what he did is, you know, Chad shared the heaviness, and James went, whoa, and just let it hit him and sat there. And they didn't really talk for a minute. And it felt real. The double entendre was really clear. And you and I were having the same experience. Like the chemistry between us and the emotion in that dress fitting scene for your baby shower. I was like, oh, that's, that's just us. Like, we're doing the dialogue, but that's us.

Yeah. Trying to cope with this. And we were 26. Like, we were kids. This was wild. We did have a boss who would come on set and scream at us. And the workplace is just not supposed to be like that. Yeah.

And the thing I'm proud that we took away is the way we show up for each other, the way we show up for our crews. Like, you know, we did that. this crazy overnight last night and I love everybody I'm working with on this movie. And, you know, there was, there were conversations about like, well, we might have to force everybody tomorrow and, you know, Sophia, your number one on the call sheet and are you willing to do it? And I was like, I don't do forced calls without pulling my department heads. And everybody was like, what? And I was like, I don't do that. I want to hear from the crew. If it helps them to come in early tomorrow,

I'll suck it up and do it. And if it doesn't, I absolutely. will refuse because I'm now in a position of power where I can do that. And like, you and I learned to show up for our people because of the way nobody fucking showed up for us. And I'm proud of, like, I'm really proud of, like, what we learned to make out of this. And watching this episode last night and, like, sobbing onto my sides and taking seven pages of notes, I was like, thank fucking God. Daphne is so funny as Victoria

Like I really needed the levity Because I just cried at every other scene But like Yeah I don't know The the weird way That our lives and our storylines Often were blurred on our show Yeah

It is special And yeah I don't know This just made me really proud Well because they ripped everything away from you in this episode Because not only is it like Okay oh my best friend is going to die it's now this little actress that I have been really forming a bond with over the last. Has it been a year, two years?

I mean, it's been a long time. And she's leaving. And Austin, who your character had been working with, is gone. And just the level of loss, it's not just storyline. Like when you lose a character, the actor behind it also loses a friend and a confidant and like a teammate. and there's real grief and loss there. And so we're teasing the Peyton loss, but the Sam loss is happening in real time.

And watching Ashley and you cry together made me feel bad that you had so many layers of loss in this episode. I'm like, this chick can't get up off the mat. Like, let her up. Let me up, please. There's no light at the end of the tunnel for Book Davis. Yeah, and I will say, like, what a testament to Daphne, right? because she is so heartfelt and heartbreaking and manages to be so funny.

Like, I made a note, and I was like, I die over her being like, well, don't hate me because I'm resourceful. Of course, I'm background checking this woman. And we should, we should sue about this guy scared on. Her credit score. All of it. Like, and, you know, the moment of like, you are trying to shop with me. I loved it.

I loved it because we loved that, you know, a few episodes ago. there's so much great humor and I actually think that's what eviscerates you more in the end when when I'm sobbing into my drawings of Sam and she is like she's been crying and she's trying to be there for me it's like oh man this is this is really rocking everybody's world and it was like even for me the parallel of Sam reminding me so much of Peyton and like me me putting that little anarchy symbol on her bag, like, that was for you. You know, and, like, I know the fans know that. Like, I know that they get the Easter egg, but I was just like, that was a, for me, that was a big, you to our boss. I was like, oh, you want me to be upset? I'm going to, I'm going to put it right on screen.

And it was like, I don't know, this was just, this episode was big and it was heavy. Yeah. But it's another one that reminds me. me where I'm like, oh, I know why everybody always says that the female friendships were the love story. Yeah. Dude. I mean, in these moments, we didn't give a shit about the boys. No. Like, you're like, Julian, who? I'm like, I don't know. Lucas is in the garage. Like, I don't. It's whatever. They're somewhere. They're here. I just want to have a wedding. God. It was so fun to see how proud daphne slash victoria was of you like watching her watch you it's obviously you know the characters

victoria is recognizing something in her daughter that she'd somehow missed that everyone else can see but she had somehow missed but i'm watching daphne the actor also be like like go baby go you're doing it you know brooks the moral compass of the show and it's a lot of weight it's a lot of weight to have to And, you know, I don't like that you were going to have to carry more of it as Peyton left. But I also, the same way, Peyton's like, yeah, you'll take care of my baby. That's kind of how I felt. Like, Treyhill was a baby to me. And I was like, it's going to be fine.

Like, I know you guys have this. It's fine. Yeah. I mean, it's not. But I think, you know, to your point, what you were saying to Cullen earlier, like the distance is pretty profound because you look back and you're like, man, no matter what was happening, like, we did really good work. We made people feel seen. Like, this episode is beautiful. I've had some days at work

where I'm like, oh, I cannot muster up any f***ks right now. Like, I got kids stuff. I got a Like, I just, oh, I'm really struggling. And I go back and I watch 26-year-old us, like deal with insanity. And I'm like, oh, well, maybe we, yeah, we can handle that. Big fucking deal. Big whoop. I, is Haley the only person that doesn't know at this point that Peyton's going to die? Haley and Mia are just like, what?

I don't, what? What do we miss? Well, no, because remember, they come over. They bring in, whenever that. was a few episodes ago, last episode, they bring the recording studio to you, and Haley's like, Brooke told me everything. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's so weird, because you guys don't talk about it. No. And they kind of pretend they don't know, but I guess, I don't know, because you know, our boss loved to read the message boards, and people were probably like, hello,

why is everyone else acting like this is normal? So they did this, like, throwaway line between Haley and Peyton in, like, the bedroom at Lucas's house. But I'm like, wait, I'd almost rather she didn't know at all because why aren't we talking about it? It's so bizarre. Yeah, she sees the death box in the garage. Listen, she's going to be fine.

Payton's going to be fine. She's going to be fine. I like that someone's compartmentalizing. That's an important thing to have in a friend group. Is the one person that's like, guys, suck it up. We're fine. Well, and in a way, Mia, in this episode, does the thing that you're always great at, which is like, absolutely not.

We're not doing this anymore. You'll crack a joke. And she does it with her elf camera because we didn't have iPhones yet. And she's like, everybody's smile. No crying for the picture. There were a number of selfies in this episode because it starts with a selfie of Millie, sending it. Yes, to mouth.

And it was kind of an awkward selfie because we didn't do those back then. We didn't have the forward-facing camera. Because it was on a flip phone. Yeah. We didn't have that. So you couldn't see what you looked like until you flipped the phone back around and saw your grainy little screen. Loving it. Loving it.

Well, I love that Nathan is keeping basketball alive on the show. I love that he and Haley are just steady soundboards for everybody else who's a fucking nightmare. I love that Peyton is really utilizing all the technology at our disposal. in order for us to get ad sales. Like, what do we think we got from, like, the camcorder and, like, the iPod Touch or whatever? Yeah. That was.

By the way, 100 songs to save your life is the name of the playlist that our boss put on that iPod he gave me after the Maxim shoot. No. So even that was like a... I was like, oh, I love that title. No, we don't.

We don't love that title. What a creep. Well, you know what I will say, too, speaking of, like, when you need levity, I am so, A, they're just so fun to watch, but B, I'm so thankful for the levity of Allison and Antoine's storyline. Miss Lauren and Skills are so fun to watch together. Yeah. And a kid being their foil is such a good choice. It's like, I think that's part of what I really like about this period in time. if I take myself out of the reality of behind the scenes.

I like that Brooke's whole storyline is intergenerational female family relationships. Nothing romantic. I like that Lauren and skills are falling for each other. And the whole thing surrounds like her being this teacher. So clearly she cares about kids and him wanting to be a dad. And then this, you know, nightmare little boy. Like, it's like these atypical love stories. Yeah.

And I really, really, I appreciate a lot of that. And I think that they managed to put humor into an episode that could have just been so sad all around. And James made it work as the director. Like, it flows. It doesn't feel like these are two different movies. It just feels like everybody's going through different things in there. life. There was a soft touch to the transition. Isn't that how it is, though? It's like in our group of friends, one of us is thriving and one of us is dying at any given point. And that's

just how it goes. And Miss Lauren is such a welcome addition to our show. I don't think I remember, I didn't remember how spunky and, like, spicy she was. And I love that she's this teacher that has kind of a wicked sense of humor and is not afraid to be frisky and this shit gets it. Yeah. I liked her. So all of that just felt, I don't know, it just felt so great. Ooh. And speaking of these sort of parental relationships, like, in the way that you see these parallels

with Nathan and Lucas and Brooke and Peyton, I really like that when Brooke is also dealing with Victoria, you in your time capsule for the baby are calling up your history with your own dad and your own parents. And the Peyton and Larry parallel to Peyton and Lucas' kid and Lucas, like, I don't know, there was just a lot that felt really, just felt really special. It was a well-written episode when Peyton is telling her child. hey, I need you to be kind to your parent. I need you to be patient with your parent. Please love him for me.

There's a part of that where it's like, is Brooke looking at her mom in a different light? You know, is it like, do I need to be kinder to this person? And, you know, acknowledge that she's putting so much effort in. I don't know what it's for. I don't know what her motive is, but like, is kindness the way. Are you going to make space for people to change? Oh my God.

Kids don't know how much power they have over us. They have no idea. I would love to know because Bill Brown wrote this episode and it is so well done. Part of me wants to be like, dude, what phase of life were you in? What was going on in your world? Yeah, was he our age? You were able to do this. I mean, I'm sure he was more mature than we were.

Yeah, really good episode. God. Really, really good episode. All the shit that went on behind the scenes, I just want to make it very clear that I loved this episode for what I got to do with you, for what I got to do with Chad, for what I got to see, you know, everybody else do in their scenes. Like, being able to be a grown up and say that I love the product. I didn't love the experience, but I really love the thing. Yeah. That's taken a long time.

But I think on that note, like, it's not lost on me when we look back at our history. Like, we all went through a lot of really awful on our show. And we've protected it. And we've protected a lot of people. Because we know that the thing we made was really magical. And I don't know. I don't know what I want to say about that other than I just want to acknowledge it. It's not lost on me.

I know that's special. What's our honorable mention? What's our special honorable mention in such a big, wild, weird episode? I'm looking at my notes. I mean, I was going to say you, first of all, but I know you'll hate that because you don't like. I don't like it. So then I was going to say maybe my honorable mention is Daphne trying to shop with me because that was quite funny. And I needed the humor.

I have Brooks designs written on here. That meant a lot. That was cool. That was really cool. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Next episode. Are we having a wedding? What are we doing next episode? I think we are, babe. Oh my God. Season 6, episode 23 forever and almost always. Let's go to the lake. That was a big sweaty, buggy party. Do we have a wheel? Let's spin a wheel. Now we go to the lake. Let's do. dude. Let's do it.

How about whatever the answer is, it's Cullen slash Junk? Love it. Wait, no, it is. This is actually so perfect. This week's most likely, too, is most likely to crash a wedding. Haven't we done that with him? I mean, it's Cullen. Yeah.

And Junk would also do it. Hondo percent. And I do think we perhaps may have all done that a time or two in Wilmington. That, what is it, the Hyatt or the Hilton right there on the river? The Hilton on the river? You hear a dance party happening and it's like, I can't not go in there, guys. You know what? I was just reading this article yesterday on Bill Murray and his like, don't give a magic.

Mm-hmm. We're getting there. And one of, like, the quotes in it from somebody who knows him was like, oh, yeah, he'll, if he ever sees a wedding, he's crashing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, okay. That's the phase that we're entering right now is the wedding crash phase. Watch out, everybody.

Hold on to your dinner plates. We're coming. We're coming. All right. We'll see you guys at the wedding. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.

or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.