Drama Queens - Thanks for the Memories • EP511

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

So many aspects of this episode hit the girls in ways they didn't expect. What caused Sophia to literally gasp? What reference unlocked forgotten memories? Plus, find out what caused the girls to band together in Haley’s defense! So much drama, in the best way possible!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, family, drama queens here. As you know, our union Sagafra is on strike. Now, we are no strangers to pushing back against imbalances and abuses of power. It is the very basis of our podcast here. So we're reclaiming a really pivotal chapter in our lives. We are in full support of the strike as well as the writer's strike. And we've checked in personally with multiple representatives and have had our teams do the same so that we maintain an active line of communication. Right now, we have been given the green light to honor our I-Heart contract, but we are taking this walk down memory lane in an old school way and encourage you to do the same. Bust out those DVDs, okay? We've signed thousands of box sets so we know you have them.

Get together with friends and have watch parties like we did back in the day. This community has always been supportive and proactive whenever we've been in a tough spot. and this moment is no exception. We are grateful to you and encourage all of you to post your pictures with your box sets and use those hashtags SAG After Strong and WGA Strong, and we're going to post your pictures in our feed. Let folks know that you support the artists

who bring you your favorite shows like One Tree Hill. And if you're able, please donate to the Entertainment Community Fund. Our fans are the very best fans, so thank you. And thank you to our reps at SAGAFTRA, for helping us navigate this complicated moment. We are so proud to be union members. Now, on to the drama. First of all, you don't know me.

We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Drama Queens. Hello. How fun was it to watch this on DVD this week? I'm obsessed. By the way, there's something, I got like a little spicy about it. I was like, oh, am I in like my petty era? Because we obviously are reclaiming our territory with this show. And we've clued in our listeners about how.

how crazy current events are in our industry and how artists and creators really get boned and it's not okay. And it's felt so good to take our show back on this podcast. And then we got our DVDs. And I was like, damn the man, fuck the streamers. I'm going to take this out and watch it on a little plastic disc. And it made me feel like we were doing something a little sparkly. When you said Damn the Man

FYI Empire Records Where that movie is quoted from was shot in Wilmington Like on the same main drag that Karen's Cafe existed And I love that notion of like save Save like DVDs Save CDs like we had these tangible things That were eradicated by technology And it's really sad because so many shows that were

only being put on streamers have now been erased and we're never put out on DVD. So there's no way to watch them. So I appreciate that our show is old enough, but these still exist. And my son thought it was so cool in retro. Like, he's got a record player. He is Peyton Sawyer, right? And so he sees the DVD player and it's like, whoa, can I, can I have that when you're done with it? Don't talk about things. Loved it. I loved it because it comes with like the liner notes. And I like, I don't know.

I just like tangible things. That's why I like books instead of like a Kindle. I also loved like, you know, when we would do events. And even still now, like you meet fans at things and then they, you know, they do this. And it's like, hey, Hillary, will you sign my DVD? And it's your face. Oh, my God, I will. I will.

Right? So before I watched the episode, I had a moment yesterday. I was out with my kids and there were a group of other kids that all clearly were cousins and knew each other. And George was trying to infiltrate this group of kids. And one of the dads was really cool. He was like, hey, girls, like this little girl wants to play with you, include her. And so these kids are playing together for like an hour and a half, two hours, right? And all, you know, everybody's just kind of sitting around being chill.

And then the older of the kids goes off And you hear the mom Who I've been talking to off and on For the last hour and a half Yell, Peyton Sawyer, get over here! And I'm like, this lady's punking me. This lady's absolutely punking me. And then I realized like, I have a hat and sunglasses

And all of that on. And I'm like, is she making fun? Like, I couldn't wrap my head around it. Did you say something? So it wasn't until Jeff Schroyer showed up later, that they were like, oh, my God, we're so embarrassed. But they'd been, like, so wonderful to my kids having no idea that I was standing right there.

And so I meet this little girl, and I'm like, hey, I'm Peyton Sawyer, too. And she's just like, what in the world are you and my mom talking about? And it was such a sweet interaction and, like, such a good girl. And I was like, listen, Peyton Sawyers are tough girls. But I love that we work in an industry where, like, your character. can have kids named after them. Like, no one is naming their children after the land barons

that own the studios and things like that. Nope. But they are naming their children after things that are created by writers and actors. So, for anyone out there that is named a child after our show, thank you so much. That is, like, the most flattering thing that you can do. It's so cool.

And I loved the Peyton I met yesterday. She's awesome. She sounds like a cool kid. She's tough. I loved it. Loved it. Um, good family. Well, well, good families, good people. Let's talk about families. Our, um, our episode this week really revolves around this. And as you all have heard us alluding to, we're watching the show on DVD because we are not supporting streamers at this time. It's a blast from the past in every way. And the family drama is high in this one. Season 5, episode 11, you are going to need someone. And on your side, aired March 11th, 2008, originally. Tell the fans what they've won today, Hillary. Oh, man.

I remember filming this like it was yesterday. Do you? Yeah, absolutely. On the eve of Lucas and Lindsay's marriage, they conspire to get Nathan and Haley in the same room by planning a combined bachelor and bachelorette party. Jamie, sweet Jamie, tries many attempts to get his mom and dad to make up at the party. Brooke arranges a hot blind date for Peyton That's why I remember this so well But the joke is on her

As Owen's chosen mate is Chase Brooke's former clean teen lover I love that they put lover Oh my God, I'm so uncomfortable Rachel returns to Tree Hill Only to be pushed out by Victoria Which pushes Brooke to her breaking point Yes, you're absolutely right

This is a family episode I think we did that really, really well. Which family do you want to start with? Oh, man. I mean, it's a bummer that we don't have joy this week because our schedules have just been so crazy, y'all, and she had something come up today. But it was such a good episode for Nathan and Haley.

Yeah. And I kind of want to jump into that dynamic right off the bat because I saw it differently at this age. Then I saw it then. And I loved skills in this episode. I loved the dynamic that he had really looking out for Jamie. I thought a lot of it was really great. But I have a little bone to pick.

Do it. And listen, of course, especially when kids are young and there's tension in a family, you have to figure out a way to protect them. They're children. They have these little developing brains. They need, you know, care and safety. need to know things are going to be okay. And I was a little bugged that there was this idea that somehow, in particular, Haley, wasn't being a good mom because she wasn't just letting this thing

roll off her back, this potential infidelity, this, you know, the woman kissed you and was nude in front of you and got in the shower with you. And clearly something's going on to egg her on. and we've watched the something going on for a long time now. And I don't know, at this stage in my life, I was like, I don't like that Haley choosing herself, even if she's going to choose to do the work on her marriage, that her needing a moment of space is essentially being convoluted with her being a less than mother.

It really bribed me. Yes, I feel exactly the way that you felt because I was like, oh, God, this hits different as a girl. Because I think when we were kids, we all read the script and we were like, oh, man, Nathan's really fighting for this. And, like, Jamie is fighting for, like, everyone is fighting for it except Haley. And we knew all the information. We knew that Nathan had rebuffed the girls' advances and was in kind of like a complicated situation and had tried to be a good guy and then get rid of her and all that kind of stuff. Haley doesn't have any of that information. All she knows is that this person keeps putting the safety of their family in danger over and over and over again. And as an adult, it's like, yeah. And as an adult, there's this moment at the party where Jamie is just like over and over and over again. Like, Mommy can we play? Mommy can we play?

Mommy can we play? And boy, I have been in that boat. And I make a point of playing Barbies with. my daughter at least once a day, but if you ask me 8,000 times, I'll lose my mind like every other person on the planet. Like, I don't know. I don't like that that was vilified. I didn't either. And I really could, I could see my younger self having this almost like Pollyanna feeling about, you know, make it right and do the whatever. But yeah, the fact that last week all Nathan said was, I wasn't even into her.

I'm like, no. You have to sit down. You have to have a conversation. You got to run through it. You got to, you know, talk about why because of how your kid feels. You didn't want to make it awkward until it got awkward. And then you told her to stop and you thought she would. Like, you really have to let your partner in on reality and care for them.

If you don't care for each other in the same way, you're never going to make it. And my God, as an adult sitting here, understanding how complex it is to be in relationships. I was like, ooh, I don't like the way that the woman got treated in this whole dynamic because she literally is the innocent one here. Well, you know, for those of you guys who haven't seen the episode, it starts with Nathan sleeping on the couch at Lucas. in Lindsay's house. And then there's like this very weird kind of reference to like why he's not in a bedroom. It's like, oh, I haven't cleared out my mom's stuff. So you have to sleep on

the couch. It was weird. It was very uncomfortable. But then Nathan makes a point of saying to Lucas while they're playing basketball together. He's like, I got nothing going on. I'm sleeping on your couch. I got nothing going on. And in my head, I'm like, a week has passed. We know that. Why hasn't this motherfucker written her a letter? why hasn't he sat down and said point by point I know you're mad about this this is the reality of what happened this is what I tried to do this is what she did

why hasn't there been a restraining order like filed against that girl like if I'm him I go and I file a restraining order just to show my wife like I don't want this around there is like work that you can do over the course of a week and Nathan instead in basketball

the rivercourt insane insane Yeah. It was really no effort on his part. And then she gets, you know, she kind of gets her ass handed to her a little bit. I will say, you know, divesting from how I feel about the way the story was carried out, God, skills was so good in that scene. Antoine delivered that so beautifully. I was like, give that man a show immediately. I guess when the strike is over. nobody's working but god he he was so great and i loved the points he made about you know the way he's showing up for this kid that he cares about and how potentially the drama between the adults is making them forget a little bit but i was like she hasn't forgotten all she's done this year is fight for this family and uh it bugged me he was beautiful but it bugged me yeah he took what he was

given and I wish he would have had a similar conversation with Nathan where he was like Exactly. Dude, do the work. Do the work. We're all here to distract your kid while you're sorting it out. All your friends love you. We will take care of Jamie. But like, do the work.

You got to do the work. Yeah. Yeah. Why didn't they have that conversation with him? I don't know. But this is what I mean is I see it now. And look, it's no secret that we had issues with the way that many of the writers on our show treated women on our show. But, God, that it's only her who gets the kind of shit end of the stick over and over again doesn't feel good, especially when they've grown Nathan into this character who really does show up for people and who will have hard conversations and who will, you know, really put himself on the line.

and all that he said is I'm not even into her like I just can't it's like he's like he's 15 again didn't he write Dan Scott a letter in prison he went out and bought stamps to send Dan Scott a letter

and send him his child's photo he can't write his wife a letter and be like baby come on baby if there are boys listening if we're mad at you write us a letter like just like make it really

clean and focused and to the point and just explain yourself so that I can pick it apart I want to be able to reread the shit points made come up with counterpoints

I do love that both Nathan and Haley totally know what Lucas and Lindsay are up to in this episode they're like yeah we absolutely knew that you guys were plotting

it's the least subtle setup ever ever also why is the party at the house like girl that's if it were at a neutral location and haley came in and nathan came in and the setup happened on like neutral turf makes sense but she's the one that had to clean the whole house before the party happened you know she's going to be the one cleaning up all the empty cups and, like, doing all the dirty work after. So she's expected to do the emotional labor and the physical labor. It's sucky. Hello? Yeah.

She just wants to, like, go to bed and watch Dateline and drink a glass of wine. Leave that woman alone. Give her a glass of red and some socks. Let her go. I will say, because there was obviously no payoff with that surprise. because everybody knew what was going on. I, Hillary, I forgot that this was the episode that Stephen came back. I forgot about the chase.

I had no idea. I was like, ooh, Owen's going to have a friend. Peyton's going to get set up. And the door opened, and I gasped on camera and in this house. I went, I loved it. I couldn't believe it. Because I loved it. I was with my boyfriend for the first five seasons of One Tree Hill.

And when we broke up, the first thing I did was go home and, like, kiss anyone from high school that I had an outstanding crush on. It was like, you, line up. Come here. Like, this needs to happen. And so I loved that Chase showed up because there was unfinished business there. He was such a good guy in season four. Like, I loved him in season four, standing up for Brooke, like sticking with her. He really did evolve into such a special guy.

Yeah. And Stephen is just so sweet. And he's so enjoyable to watch. And it was fun to have him back and fun to have that scene with the four of us in the car where we're Owens putting it all together. That scene was so fun. It was so fun because it was so real. Like, I know that we've walked through these kinds of points before where we're like, Hey, remember that thing that I told you about?

Right, right. The realization on everyone's face is so fun. And I love that they immediately felt like friends. Like it didn't. It was not hard to imagine that they'd been bros for like years. How do we think those two met? It's so weird. But, you know, part of me is like, well, was Chase bar-tebrose?

or, you know, like, are they college friends? Yeah, I like to imagine that they met, like, in one of those dorky adult kickball leagues. And they don't joke. I just almost spit my smoothie right out of my nose. No, but you know what I mean? Oh, my God. Those were such a big deal in the early 2000s. Like, everybody was in a, I'm in a rec league kickball club.

Or we had, remember our crew was on a dodgeball league. And we would, like, play competitively. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You know what I really like? I like when I'm driving through the city at night, and I see like a soccer league, like an amateur soccer league. I'm always like I want to pull over and go play with those people. Yeah, what are they about? I passed Little League Fields with Gus yesterday. Gus was like, can we just come and watch a game? Like, there's something kind of voyeuristic about watching people revert back to childhood and just be their most primal selves.

Yeah. That's how I want to believe Chase and Owen know each other. And there's a fun dynamic at work in this episode that feels like that because Brooke gets pulled back to high school. Peyton is being pulled back to this high school. love with Lucas, you know, even Chase asking you, you know, about him and like, do you still love him? And then he kisses you. It's like it's all, it all feels like high school. Yeah. And Haley and Nathan, too. I mean, they go all the way back to like, I shouldn't have tried to change you. Oh my God. Like, if she had had that realization junior year in high school of

maybe trying to change someone isn't the best deal. like this whole show doesn't happen the whole thing i love a walk down memory lane it's kind of wild and and the idea that like the idea that you can go back home and you can engage with the people who have known you forever and and you can develop new feelings for old people you know i I can only speak from experience, but I love staying in touch with my friends from high school. And I love when they're like all married to each other. And I love when our kids are old enough now that they also hang out. And I'm like, oh, my God, if there's another generation of like Perfew high school kids kissing each other, I am just going to be so happy.

Like it just, yeah, the crossover between fact and fiction is delicious. No, Haley saying that I shouldn't have tried to change you was my favorite part of the episode because that felt the most real and the most grounded. Because she really did. She worked on that dude for years. Remember he was like watching porn on the internet

when they were like first together and patent videos and hooking up with her sister? He was doing crazy stuff. Yeah. I get it. You're right. I think that was my favorite line in the episode two. And it is the reality of that. The sort of graveness of saying everything in such a simple sentence, I love you and I'm not going to do this anymore. I love you, but not enough to be tortured in my home. I, you know, whatever the sort of energy underneath it, it feels big to say I just shouldn't, I shouldn't have done all. this work. You are who you are. And oh, man, it really, that got me. And she's like, and it's okay. Like, go, be that guy. Be the guy that has girls running around naked. Like, I just want you to be happy. Be free, my friend. There's nothing worse than an apathetic woman. As long as a woman still hates you, you've got a chance. But the second she turns to apathy, you're like,

oh oh yeah apathy is the stage you want to be in when you realize you're done with something because you go oh i'm not affected i'm just done yeah it's so clear maybe that's what i liked so much about joy's performance is that she was just so clear yeah it was like look i see how much work everyone's putting into this lucas lindsay changed their whole game plan you obviously showed up tonight thinking we were going to have some happy reunion. I'm going to be polite to you, but no. All your friends are in on this. Our child is in on this. I'm feeling very clear. Yeah. It's just brutal. Clarity is such a gift. And I think, you know what? I think it's that

clarity that feels so real and authentic that made me feel really irked about the other stuff that we were talking about at the beginning of the episode. Because we got honesty about this sort of a situation. But then we also got this weird glossing over of it and shame for the woman. And I just went, oh, it bogs me because you did part of it so well. What if the other parts had been done this well? The only thing I can think is like, Haley is not a petty bitch like I am and hasn't like, hasn't amplified this, right? Like if it's me, I'm getting all my text thread and I'm like, yo motherfuckers better stand by me because you have no idea what he did

and blah, blah, blah, this is this, this, this. Haley clearly is above that and hasn't told all of his boys the dumb shit that he's been doing. And they haven't really asked either. It's not like skills has gone to her and been like, maybe what's going on? What happened?

How can I support you? Wait, I'm dying to think about you doing that in a text ride. I would never. I am at a point where like, I mean, shit. I think sometimes with friends like us, you know, where you're at a distance, so we catch up. Like, we get on a FaceTime.

We do it and so we really dive in. My friends at home sometimes are like, you can't tell us about things when you've already solved the problem a year into it. Like you have to, you got to tell us in real time. And I'm like, I don't know how that works. They want to workshop the problem. I'm in my little crab shell, my little cancer crab shell. And I'm like, I'm in here figuring it out.

I'll come out. I'll come out of the rocks when I'm ready. No, my trauma response is to turn everything into like a narrative. Let me just tell this story. Tell you what he did. I love that. Yeah, no, I like to weave a tail because then there's a little bit of distance. Then it's like softened.

When you keep something like deep inside and a secret, it's like, oh, God, this is painful. This is hurty. But the second you turn it into a funny anecdote over like a drink, it doesn't hurt as much anymore. And so Haley could do, she should do that. She should just go out drinking with everyone and be like, let me tell you a tale of your friend Nathan. Yes. She's too classy.

What a bum out. Oh, I'm telling you, I'm here for the petty era. I love petty, man. And I'll never grow out of it. I'm that high school. Again, I just love staying in touch and acting like, like I'm still 15. I'm going to write a note and fold it up all cute and tell you about all the crazy

shit that's going on. I like that. You know who is the scariest petty bitch? Victoria. Yeah. She was a hard. Stephanie was terrifying in this episode. Like, I want to know if she was okay when we shot this.

I feel like it would have been so hard for her. Well, because we know it's informed by this fierce protection of her daughter. Yeah. But there's something darker here that's like, what happened to her? Yeah. Like, who screwed her over so bad that she's convinced the same thing is going to happen to Brooke? Yes. Well, and why do you have to win so badly that you want to win if it means somebody winds up overdosing?

Destroying someone. Like, you want to push someone into self-harm. to prove a point it is so dark it takes my breath away yeah but brook is doing the same thing that haley's doing this episode i really love the parallel of i'm in a toxic situation and i might really love this person and i might really want this person's attention and i have enjoyed the good times but we have reached the end of this arrangement like oh it's heavy we have reached the end of this arrangement oh man can you imagine Nathan and Victoria just drinking together being like so you got the boot too yep I'm done and do your arrangement cool same same same no I mean

Like, Victoria was so, like, mustache twirling evil. This was her Dan Scott moment where it was like, I'm going to destroy you at all costs. And it made me wonder, like, what did Rachel do? What did Rachel do in the year before? Yes. We had a great moment of Millicent in this episode informing us, like, oh, I know Rachel. And she describes a person that we haven't gotten to see. But girl, what was your sense memory when she said,

I've had to guard the door? I was dying. Oh, Hillary, it took me right back there. I was like, we had some times. Well, yeah, explain to the folks at home who weren't born when bungalow eight was around. Bungalow 8 was this very cool club in New York. You needed a key to get in or to know someone who had one who would bring you. It opened, essentially, it became a big deal in the later seasons of sex in the city.

It was like one of the clubs Carrie Bradshaw went to. And then we started our show, I mean, so quickly after. And Bungalow 8 was still very hot, and we were going there. And it was very, you know, to be a young 20-something, in New York and be like, this is her spot. And now I'm here. It was naughty and viby and really fun. It was naughty.

You know, there was like a celebrity in the early 2000s was very different than it is now because there was no social media. And the paparazzi was like, that was the peak of their power because they were the only people that could get kind of these candid interactions with famous people. And it was the rise of like, you know. know, socialite culture in New York City. And so there were so many of these kind of bungalowate places that were velvet rope clubs where like you could not get in unless you had some pull.

And now, looking back on it, I'm like, y'all motherfuckers want me to stand in line for a thing? No, no. I will go to a dive bar where I just walk in and go straight to the bar. I don't want to have to be on a clipboard. Don't look for my name. But at the time, it was serious business. And the idea that Rachel, Rachel, of course, would be a part of that scene. Of course.

So spicy. It really tracked. Who do we think Rachel was in the bathroom with? I'm so curious. If you had to pick two celebrities for Rachel to have hung out in the bathroom with. It's like in my head, thinking about Rachel as a model in New York. And the fashion week scenes there, I feel like it would be like a model from one of the shows. And then an actor who had sat front row, like some handsome guy who was sitting front row at Calvin Klein and a Calvin Klein model.

Yeah. I remember what a big deal, like Leonardo DiCaprio and Toby McGuire and David Blaine, their little club was. Oh, yeah. Because they would always have a corner table in all of those kinds of clubs. And I remember being told, like, don't go, don't go near that club. Like, they are just there to pull chicks. And I was like, yeah, oh, weird. Interesting. Not my, not my energy. But we know that Leo loves models.

I'm sure. That would track. She would have had a moment, at least just like a real flirty night with him. Yeah. That actually, I didn't think about how connected those moments were until you just said that. But that moment where she hits on mouth, aside from being the most ridiculous thing that was written by a man, I could just really use the release. I'm like, the release? No.

No girl has ever. My God. But, you know, her hitting on him and him having the wherewithal to say, you can have anyone you want and anything you want, but you don't know that. you need to know that it is interesting that he knew to remind her potentially because of what Millicent shared with him potentially because he got he got a window into who Rachel was you know at her quote unquote height you know her prime as she might define herself like her most successful and he's just like none of that matters actually And I thought that it was really a nice moment.

There's a discovery process to realizing that none of that stuff matters. Because when you are young, everybody wants to be invited to the party. Of course. Whether you're in high school and there's like the party happening after the football game and like who gets invited becomes like a big deal, you go to college. I still want to be invited. I don't want to go. But I want to be invited. But that's the discovery process.

It said we all want to be invited when we're young. Well, most of us want to be invited when we're young. And when we were young, those Velvet Rope clubs were like the thing to do. And we have gotten to go through the natural discovery process of being like, oh, we did it enough to realize it wasn't fulfilling. It wasn't that great. You know, there were parts of it that were actually kind of creepy and weird. Rachel doesn't get to do that because she's cut off. She's dismissed from the party.

And she's been dismissed from high school parties on our show. She's now being dismissed from the cultural party that is New York City. And now she's being dismissed from like the one thing she's always been able to do is like, pull a dude. And how many times can you punch a chick before she reverts back to her bad coping mechanisms? Yeah. I thought for sure she was going to take off when Mouth rejected her. And she doesn't in this episode. Mouth rejects her and she stays there.

Even after getting a text message from some old party buddies, like, hey, let's get messed up. And I thought that was a really important thing to show that she took a hit and she stayed on the couch. And she just took a nap. And it wasn't until Victoria showed up and really pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed that she fell apart. Yeah. I don't know. I fully expected her to leave when Mouth was like, sorry.

And she didn't. She did it. And I liked that. I liked her saying, I'm going to beat this. You see, you see the effort she's putting in. You see that she wants to be different. And in a way, I think that's what Victoria sees too. She can identify it.

And she lasers, she laser focuses on it to eviscerate that hope. And it's, it's just so dark. Yeah. And it, it becomes like death by a thousand paper cuts, the episode, because, you know, there's the whole conversation with, Brooke and Rachel where it's like, hey, I know you gave Peyton a shot with her business. Can I model again? And Brooke has to tell her like, baby, that wasn't the offer. Like, sorry, you misinterpreted this. Yeah. And it's just a hit after, hit after hit. And then Victoria's a

tsunami. Like she just wipes everything out. Yeah, she really does. She really clears the dining room table. But I loved the scene. That's the one that I really remembered shooting that scene with Daniel and I. I loved that they gave me space to be gentle with her. You know, so often on an ensemble show, an important moment happens in like four sentences in a scene. And the fact that we got to sit and talk, and you really got to see Brooke taking Rachel through her own logic. I don't want to put you in a scene that's been bad for you. Yeah. It's, it's temptation everywhere. It's dangerous. Let's do something else. I'll support you in another way. But it's, of course, it's crushing for Rachel to realize that she's just not going to get what's,

she wants or what she thought she was getting. I have strong sense memory of shooting that scene between Peyton and Rachel out on the deck because it was kind of this sense of like, we're giving you your friend back. We're giving you your gift back. Right? And I was so like, oh, she's here. Fantastic. It felt like a dangling carrot.

Like, you want this? And I did. I was so happy to have her there. And then we were all, I remember all of us like hanging out in the, apartment set because that scene where Chase first shows up and it's Rachel, Brooke, and Peyton, like, really enjoyed it. So funny. I remember that so well because it felt like high school again.

It felt real. It was like the gang is back together. And that energy, I think, is a tease for the audience because they're like, oh, my God, we're going to have the girls all, like the shooting squad back together. And by the end of the episode, Rachel is kaput. She's gone. I know. It makes me so sad.

I thought about that for you when I saw you walk out onto that balcony. I was like, oh, they're having one of those moments like where they give you your real life friend on screen. Yeah. There was no reason for that scene. Yeah. None. No, I had a great time.

I had my friend back in this episode. I got to kiss Colletti a couple times. Look at you. How is that? That was awesome. You know, it was so weird because it was like. he and I were buddies and and I I didn't want to be like a creeper but I was really excited to kiss someone new

because I'd been doing so much belly aching over Lucas that I was like yeah maybe this will be a thing and then it clearly wasn't but I like that they're being cool with each other in that way I like that they both like Peyton finally has someone that validates like hey it's okay like you can still have a crush on that person because I have a crush on Brooke. Yeah. Cool.

I felt like having a cohort in a way. I was into that. I like that. And then later, later in like season six, life imitated art because I got dumped by this dude I was seen and Coletti is who took me out and like we went out to a bar. And he's such a good wingman. He was just like, I am not going to let you wallow in this.

We are going to damn. and we went to go see Bibbis sing. Yeah. Yeah, he's a good wingman. He's a good party buddy when you're down and out. So, yeah, I think that moment at the party was great. And I think that there's still a spark between Brooke and Chase. Is that what the plan was?

Were they going to remove Owen and have you hooked back up with Chase? I don't know. I really don't remember. I don't know if maybe it was like, like was Joe was true blood in the mix at this point? Like, did we know he was leaving? I feel like there was a tingle in the air.

I don't know. That's sort of what I, what my brain is pulling up, but I don't know if the timeline is accurate or not. They would always just be so mad when guest stars would get other work. So maybe I'm a little. We're not going to offer you a full contract, but we will be thoroughly pissed if someone else hires you.

I was like, you know, these people have bills to pay, right? Hello? That's why we're still striking. You two are so cute in this episode. Who, Joe and I or Stephen and I? You and Joe, you sitting in his lap eating birthday cake? Oh my God. That was cute, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah, Joe was so innocent. Yeah. we always had like a very easy chemistry and joe is so kind and he really he's got that like protector energy you would have to at his size can you imagine not having protector energy but joe just always made me feel really safe and you know we were in an environment where we didn't always feel safe and it was easy and it was nice and you know he wasn't one of those guys who, like, showed up at work trying to hit on everybody.

He was, like, a good dude. He was probably the most platonic dude that we ever had come on the show. Like, I never felt any weirdness from him ever, ever, ever. Truly such a, like, good, sweet dude. I wonder. Oh, I wish we had a little mole in the writer's room because I would love to know

if they were putting him in his place by bringing Coletti back or if they were just trying to figure out how to bring Coletti back because we missed him. Like, I don't know. I don't know either, but it feels pointed. It's a great story point. I love it.

I love that it puts Brooke in the same position that, like, Lucas is in. Because it's like, we've made so much fun of Lucas for how poorly he's doing in this situation. And so it's like, well, let's see if a woman can handle this any better. And so far so good. I like that Brooke is just like, hey, man, what do you want from me? I'm adorable.

Of course they're all in love with me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like that tactic. And I like that, I don't know, I just like the energy between Peyton and Brooke in this episode. I feel like we were so in lockstep with one another. And everything felt really safe. And even when we're making jokes about like, oh, I'm going to kiss your boyfriend, whatever.

It's easy. It's fun. You know that they're taking care of one another. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, podcasts. So I'm going through here, and I'm looking at my notes about what I remember from this episode. The Lucas and Lindsay stuff is sweet in this episode. I like the idea that she finally makes the connection for all of us, because I haven't thought about it before, where she's like, if my dad and Uncle Keith were hanging out at a bar in

heaven what do you think they would talk about like that's a connection point that we really haven't seen addressed on the show and i like that she does that for us that like ruined me i needed to search for a word it just and again we've talked about this the gap between our life experience then and our life experience now it hits different now because we all have those experiences. We think about those things. We think about the people that we love that aren't here anymore. And are they all together somewhere? Like, oh, and I don't know. I went from like watching the episode taking notes to just like choking on an ugly sob. It really, it just got me. Yeah, it's a connection point for the two of them that's really serious because to lose a parent, is awful. To lose a parent in your teens, in your early 20s,

before you get married, before you have kids, before you hit all these professional milestones, before, like, all the stuff is a pain that thankfully not everyone knows. And so to find another human that gets it and can hold your hand through it, I like that Lucas and Lindsay have each other.

That's a great, connection. It was a connection that he had with Peyton, you know? So it makes sense. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, and I think there's something as a viewer, you know, who's not in the dynamic of that relationship and that triangle for the three of you, as beautiful as the question is and the ensuing conversation, you can't help five years into this thing when you've been rooting for Lucas and Peyton having that little itch going but Keith and Peyton's mom like they they've shared this stuff already this this is new for Lindsay but you know it's not for him because of you and it's and it's and it's a it's I don't know I really put me deep in my

feelings yeah oh I fucking love the moon bouts let me just tell you how much I loved that moon bounce because we got to have it for the duration of filming. And so we would wrap work and just bounce in the moon bounce. The idea that this like kid through this party is fantastic because I like all the things that five-year-olds like. And yeah, I like that it worked out this way because then our crew got to actually use all of these party things. Like someone had to eat all that cotton candy. It was us. Amazing. Yeah, grown-up moon bounces should be more of a thing. I'm so into it. Like, and look, I was a camp counselor. I love watching other people's kids. I also shamelessly, when there is a moon-bounce of a thing, I'm like, I'll watch the kids. I want to

get in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let me in. I got it. I got it. You go get a beer. I'll be over there with them. Dude, I volunteered for Field Day at my son's school, and they had all these inflatable things. And one of them was a slip and slide, but it was like two slides. So you were racing against the person next to you. That's so fun. And one of the teachers was like, do you want to race? And I did. I really, really did. But I wouldn't do it. I was like, no, I have to be the adult here. Come on. No, I couldn't listen. Listen, I'm an authoritative figure with those seventh graders. I got a, I got to be an adult. Also, I just didn't want to be wet all day. Not with kids. Like if it was like a grown-up party and we were drinking Blue Moon and having a good time, like, yes.

But like hanging out in the school baseball field, no, I don't think so. Not for me. Not the vibe. No, but it did seem like a dope party. And remember what a big deal guitar hero was? Oh, well, we were all really playing that at that stage. Remember, that's when we all got the consoles because of Jackson. So everybody got a Wii, everybody got a guitar hero.

we had it in the office, and the fact that it worked its way into the episode, I thought was very sweet. Yeah, that's it. That's how you knew we were also in a writer's strike because they're like, what can we just farm from you like? Yeah.

We know that Jackson's into this. Jackson's performance in this episode is my favorite because I have a five-year-old and I saw so much of my daughter in him this episode, especially in the scene where Brooke and Owen go to his bedroom and he does this real sly little

is this your boyfriend? Yeah. And that's exactly how my daughter asks questions. It's always like, hmm, I'm suspicious of you. That's so cute.

I love a suspicious child. I do too. And I love this whole phase getting to be Jamie's godmother was just the best. I had the best time. Season 5 was so fun for me. Frankly, I'm surprised that

Broken Skills never get together because they're the most like pro-jamey godparents. That would have been an interesting turn. It would have been fun. Just a little like, let's play house. We both love this child.

Well, I think that Jackson had to do a lot of heavy lifting here. He did and he did it really well. Yeah, because he's not being a brat with his mom, but he's being needy. Yeah. And there's a fine line there. And I feel so much for him while also being like, hey, moms need a minute.

Yeah, give her a minute, bud. The thing that got me was like, Nathan's having all the fun with the kid because he's glossing over those big questions. And Haley's so honest with Jamie in the episode. And it's like, baby, I don't know the answers. I don't know the answers. And Nathan is like, yeah, I sure hope I get to come home Right after Haley's told him like, you're not coming home.

Like, we're done, done. And so, yeah, this poor little boy is getting very mixed messages. Yeah. But he gets to bounce. He got a party out of the dude. How did we feel about the scene between you and Victoria? Because that was epic. I just felt like it was such a little.

a long time coming. I it's visceral for me remembering that and I don't know in in many ways I feel like getting to stand up to her as Brooke in that moment was also cathartic for every time I've never stood up for myself in my real life you know I don't know it it does it feels like it feels close what was it like for you watching it I'm like I don't know if I could talk about it You talk about that. Yeah. What I loved is that she's, she tells Brooke over and over again. She's like, Brooke, you have to remove emotion from business. You have to remove emotion from business. Not realizing that the only thing keeping her in Brooke's business is emotion. And so the second that Brooke takes her advice and removes the emotion from the business, she's gone. Yeah. I just loved that little turn. burn where it was like, all right, I'm going to do exactly what you told me to. You win. You're gone. That's the kind of emotional docee dough I want in my series. I'm like, yeah, you got what you

wanted. Suck it, Victoria. I like that a lot. What are we missing? What else happened? Oh, Peyton seeing Lindsay in her wedding dress was a moment. Girl. Was it weird? Did you have, like, Do you feel jealousy about it because, like, Payton and Lucas are your territory? What did it feel like? I mean, I'm sure at the time I felt like it was weird. Like, oh, cool. I'm sure that's fun for you and you're a ball gown. But now, thinking about it, I'm just really glad I didn't do that, like, tucked ball.

You know that, like, kind of, like, tucking that's on, like, the skirt of the ball gown that was very 2000s? Bridal fashion is so easy to fuck up And so while I love it for Brooke Davis And close over bros that she got to design this dress aesthetically it was not a patent vibe It's not a vibe I would have worn Not my vibe aesthetically either Yeah yeah there was like a

It was like a fake pinning that was happening on the ball gowns of skirts back then Where it was supposed to look I don't know, like a lemon meringue, like you know when meringue is baked and it just stays and it swirls in a shape? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or like a, like an ice cream cone. Uh-huh. Right? Like the skirt has that kind of soft serve. I wasn't mad about that dress. If it had been all like angular and bitchy like my wedding dress in real life was, then yeah, I would have been jealous.

No. But I didn't want that dress, so. I guess you were asking me about the boy part of it. I could all. I'm just like, the dress. You're like, whatever. I don't care. I don't even care. No, I thought there was an awkward moment in the episode where Peyton goes to see Lucas at the basketball court and is like, are you going to yell at me for being mean to Lindsay? And he's like, I didn't hear anything about it. That was awkward, but I don't know, 22. How old are our characters? 21, 22, we're supposed to be awkward. Let's be graceful about it.

Lucas, for his part, though, doesn't do any weird shit with Peyton at the party. Congratulations. He's, like, focused on his bride. Finally. It's very different than the closeover bro's opening. My God. Right? No, he's doing it. You can do better. I'm still, still icked about that. No, he was good. And getting to see them be

together in a nice way was nice I bought it it's what they probably were pre Brooke and Peyton coming home yes

now we're finally getting to see it well well well well well

Brooke was convinced earlier Peyton's convinced now I guess Lucas and Lindsay are going to be happily ever after

whatever it's fine I'll just go kiss all of Brooke's other ex boyfriends great yeah

I guess Peyton never kisses Owen, does she? No. Trying to think if there are any other Brooke conquests that we didn't cross over on. No, I don't think you do. And in later years, you know, once you had left, then they made poor sweet Jana do it. So like Alex goes for Julian, almost like Nanny Carey goes for Nathan. I mean, obviously pre us finding out she's a sociopath, but yeah, it was gnarly. And I was just like, why is everybody Oh, he's trying to own Brooke's boyfriends. What's happening?

That's irritating. You said, Carrie, one thing I forgot in this episode, you guys, is that the amazing woman who was my stand in on the show, Carrie Moscow, plays the store clerk that ends up sleeping with Dan, right? But she also played the prostitute that went home with Matt Barr. Yeah, the one that Derek dressed up to look like Peyton. And I love that this one character sleeps with me. Matt Barr and gets assaulted and then sleeps with Dan Scott the second he gets out of prison.

And she's just, she's part of the folklore of Tree Hill. She is a bad man magnet. Mm-hmm. That's spicy Patty. What was her name? Patty in the episode? Patty, what time do you get off? Depends.

When do you want to pick me up? I was like, okay. I just love that they cast Carrie for these parts because she's so great. I love it. She is great. I liked the episode. All in all, I did too. I liked it.

It made me want to go home and have an all-class reunion with my high school friends. Yeah, I liked it. I'm going to be curious when we get on for the next one and we get Joy back. I feel like I'm going to have some follow-up questions. You know, when we watch the episodes and it's like previously, I want to, next week I want to have a little previously on with her. Because she was so good in this episode. Oh, so good. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while

navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we want to do a fan question? I think we ought to. I've got one for us from Tanya. She says, How far ahead do you know the plot lines when acting?

For example, that Lindsay leaves Lucas at the altar or that Nanny Carey is actually crazy. Oh, Tanya, buckle up, babe. Like the week before? Maybe if you're lucky. Sometimes a day before if you're not lucky. We were getting into Binds. where we would get the script like two days before we'd have to start it.

Yeah. Because it has to go through so many revisions and then like network notes and then tone meetings and a lot of executive level baloney before it gets to the actors that are like, oh, cool, let me just memorize 60 pages. Yeah, by tomorrow. And, you know, you've got to prep. You've got to figure out. how to make things work. It's not just memorizing. It's all the other building of the world you have

to do. And yeah, it can be really crazy making when, you know, let's say we'd be starting a new episode. This is 511, for example. We're starting 511 on a Thursday. And we don't get the script until Tuesday night. And it's like, well, I wish I'd have known that Chase was going to be Owen's friend because I would have done this thing differently in the scene we shot yesterday in 5'10. And, like, you know, that wouldn't have been the one. Obviously, that was a surprise. But, yeah, if you know Lindsay's going to leave him at the altar or you know that someone's going to get arrested, that can inform a lot about your work. Yeah.

And they just don't always tell you. Well, even for me in this narrative, right, where it's like Peyton said, I love you and you're getting married. Cool. Great. I'm going to deal with it. If I'd have known that Lindsay was going to leave him at the altar, I probably would have played the panic a little bit more, right? Of like, oh, my God, he's actually going to go through with this.

Like, he's actually going to do this. Instead, in my mind, Lucas was getting married, so Peyton was going to go off in a different direction. Yes. I kind of played it like, I'm the cool girl. I'm going to get over it. And like, I don't care. I have to get over it.

What's my choice? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I was kind of more apathetic about it, but I feel like it would have enhanced the drama if Peyton had been a little bit more like, oh, I care, I care. Oh, my God. Yeah.

But I didn't know. I legitimately thought they were going to get married and have babies and do the thing. So I was, I mean, frankly, I was just looking at the call sheets to see if someone knew was coming in that I could kiss. Well? What's happening next?

Is Greenberg back? He wasn't. they teased us with that this season though i remember them being like oh we're trying to get him yeah he said that every year but yeah tanya it's uh it's not like a movie where we know what's gonna happen we have to play everything super open ended because who knows what they're gonna throw it us i loved it all right what's our honorable mention i liked that line of joys that's mine i shouldn't have tried to change you

Oh, God. That's my honorable mention. Sorry, it's a downer. Yeah. My honorable mention is in the car with Chase and Owen and Brooke and Peyton. Yeah. When he says, do you remember the fake virgin chick? And we don't get mad at the fake virgin part.

No. We go, chick? Ew. He called me a chick. Fake virgin, yes. Chick? No, sir. Yeah, we should make t-shirts that say that.

Do you remember the fake virgin chick? All right. I'm into it. Do it. All right, we're going to spin a wheel. Let's spin a wheel and then we'll send you home. Oh, my God. Bevan was so good in this episode.

Bevan was so good in this episode. Honorable mention to Bevan. Yeah. Yeah, just putting her foot in her mouth over and over and over again. She's just so funny. Oh, most likely to own a food truck. Okay, character. Which character is most likely to own a food truck? Tim.

Yeah, I was, yeah. Yes. Because he's going to put, he's going to have one of those like Ponzi scheme ideas where he gets some dumb investor where he's like, guys, it's nachos, but it's made out of beer. You know, like, something stupid. Yeah. And someone's going to invest in that. Someone's going to invest in it. And he's just going to be driving around town, making people snacks. Mm-hmm.

tracks i like that where i'm at right now we have ice cream trucks all over the place and they're not playing old school uh songs anymore they've got this weird kind of electronic like music but it sounds like horror film music like it sounds like stranger things no i'm just out there going for a walk and you hear like soundtrack of doom coming up behind you selling children ice cream that's a tim move oh my god For sure, Tim, move. Who in real life? I mean, DeNeil has food trucks at family business brewing company at the distillery.

They have food trucks. Well, there you go. I, a food truck for me is the kind of dream that surfing is. I think I would love it if I did it. And I'm never going to do it. But in my head, I'm just, I'm a month away. from having a taco truck or being a girl who knows how to

work a surfboard. I don't even like the ocean, but I think I think about it and I'm like, I could do that someday. I never will. I love that. But God, I would love to have a food truck. Oh, I love it. My snacks could be my business.

Hillary. In our next lifetime. That's happening. My dream come true. That's happening. All right, you guys, next episode, we have Season 5, Episode 12. It's called 100.

hundred very antoine antoine used to say that he still says that all the time hundred all right thank you guys for hanging in with us see you next time hey thanks for listening don't forget to leave us a review you can also follow us on instagram at drama queens o'ttch or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio dot com see you next time we're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens

smart girl rough girl fashion but you'll tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges we aim to explore that culture

Somewhere along the way it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.