Drama Queens - That Is What They Call Closure ᐧ EP621

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

From filming locations, to flashbacks, to kept secrets…things were all over the place for this episode.  Hilarie explains how one door closing made space for beautiful things to come as well as an unforgettable night with Chad. Plus, Sophia found herself rooting for one of Brooke's rivals. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

I feel like at the top, it's worth noting that I, like, barely finish this episode because I was dealing with high school sports stuff, and it felt very meta. It felt very one tree hill. Did it? How were you dealing with high school sports stuff? Because my son plays on a high school team. He's a novice. They bump up the eighth graders.

And so Gus is so us because there's bullying going on with the upperclassmen. And Gus this week was like, not today. Not today. He's like, Nathan Scott. We only believe in positive leadership now. There you go. And I just love how this show infiltrates every corner of our life all the time. It's amazing.

All the time. Well, on that note, why don't we get started? Season 6, episode 21, a kiss to build a dream on. Air date April 27, 2009. This episode's synopsis is Peyton and Lucas take a trip in the comet in the past. Down to Mary Lane. And she struggles with the boredom of being stuck in bed as a pregnant woman. Typical.

We also have Brooke discovering something that could change Sam's life. That absolutely will change Sam's life. Nathan questions his dreams of playing in the NBA while Haley receives an unexpected offer. From who? Nick Lyshe! Jamie and Skills mend their broken hearts at Jamie's first school dance. I loved this. sequence and Lucas and Payton remember

they remember a memorable road trip they took together after high school. I love remembering memorable things. Memories like the I liked this episode. I didn't take notes because I was just like, I'm just going to watch it. I'm just going to watch it to just watch it and not

make it a homework assignment. And I liked that everyone had real storyline. That felt good. Yeah. This felt like such an 80s movie to me. The whole episode was like a fun 80s movie. Especially with the flashbacks and with the skills at the school dance and all the glittery, what do you call it? The tinsel hanging on the walls. All those shots with them in this school dance environment. There was so much about this. I really enjoyed. I'm seeing Erica Dutton directed it. Oh, did she? Yeah, Erica was a staple. Her dad, Joe Dutton owned the camera house in Wilmington where we got all of our cameras from. They are like icons in the camera industry. And Erica was a director who was like our age. And we might have been one of her first directing credits for TV.

She does all sorts of huge shit now. I want to say she does like Ted Lassow, like big stuff. That's awesome. I loved some of those classic choices you're referencing. Like the dynamic of skills in Jamie, these two boys kind of pushing each other to be courageous, you know, across a generational line was so cute to me. And when they decided to go to the dance and it smash cut to them in slow motion, walking out of the apartment through the halls, it was so good. Yeah, it was like 21 jumps tree, but better. I loved it.

She understands that dynamic of drama and comedy and sometimes, like, heightened reality. And I think that's what was playing really well is she's just got a really good sense of storytelling. That's a fine line, isn't it, between drama and comedy? You know, it seems like people think of it as two separate genres, but there's so many comedic moments in the middle of deep, heavy emotion, I feel like. There's always these, so much of it is so connected that you're on the cusp of either one at any given moment. So it's a really natural flow when a director understands that part of humanity and is able to convey it in an effective way.

Yeah, she's a good chick. And very British, you know, I like a British sensibility brought to Tree Hill. We needed more of that. It just felt so big. I feel like we were all over town. Like, the locations on this were bananas because we were in Trick. We were in close over bros. We were at Flamen Amies.

We were at Edge of Urge. The basketball set. I don't know if that was on stage or if that was a, you know, Laney. Where were we? We were at the college, Trask Coliseum for that. Yeah. I mean, we were all around town. And the flashback, that was large too, also because it was back in time.

That was all over the frickin' place. Yeah, it was a big episode, for sure. I loved that, though. We've got all these different little pockets of storylines. Let's talk with Lucas and Peyton. Mm-hmm. I love the dynamic. I love getting to see, you know, Peyton have a sort of hurdle in front of her that isn't tragedy.

It's so nice to have a good time with you, Hill. And the sort of comedic sense of being trapped and bored is just fun. Like the jump cuts with you and the big bear and the paper planes and all the things. You can feel that feeling of stuckness. And it's sweet that it's, you know, wrapped in this romance. Like I love getting to see Peyton and Lucas happy. I like seeing him working on the car. I love the way you played that beat in the beginning of like,

you're making me a present. What is it? Like you don't know. I don't know. It was just all so enjoyable to watch. Thanks. Well, Chad and I had hit a rhythm at that point, you know? I mean, we knew each other pretty well.

And I think I liked to tease him a lot in real life. I was always just like, you love me. And he was always just like, what? I was like, dude, you fucking love me. You think I'm the coolest. And that was, I love teasing him about that. I think I still do. I think anytime I see Chad, I'm just like, you have missed me.

That's just kind of the dynamic of our relationship. So teasing is a good baseline for any Lucas Payton stuff because it was really easy to play on. I watched 620 and 621 back to back, so I just watched myself in a car crash, and then it goes to this light stuff, so I have whiplash right now. I'm like...

But I do like... I learned stuff in this episode with Peyton and Lucas. I didn't know that Peyton submitted his book to all these publishers and thudded him. No, I did. She thuds Haley with the song in this episode. And then we see a flashback of her thudding Lucas.

And so that one thud he did back in season one created a domino effect. Hey, your art mattered. I'm just saying, for those of you out there, thud your friends. It's a great time. You know what else I really liked about the flashback device with you too? I liked feeling like we got to go back in time a little bit and see you so happy. because the move to L.A., obviously, we know as this big sort of schism in your relationship, like it basically almost destroyed everything.

And to see how excited they were laying on that car on the precipice of this shift. And that Peyton is talking about how she's got all her dreams wrapped up in this boy and she's going to hold him to all of his promises. And they're going to get married and have a family. I was like, oh, my God, I didn't know she said that to him. Yeah. Same. And I loved it. How far you guys went when everything fell apart.

I loved seeing where you are now and the space that you lived in before everything fell apart and you found your way back. Like there was something kind of heartening about watching. I think Nathan was kind of going through the same thing too of thinking about old dreams and living in a place in the future of like, I'm still, I'm still. I'm still working on this dream and they're just working on it in different ways Haley too that was really powerful dialogue it was such a simple thing

but you know when people use language so well and the words really mean what they mean not like it was the worst or it was the best but like you really It was the best of times and the worst of times like when you guys are having that conversation when Nathan and Haley are talking about

you know should he take the offer that's real or hold on to this fantasy that isn't yet and he says the thing about maybe he should let go of the fantasy and you say it's not a fantasy it's your dream yeah yeah that's really powerful language and i thought that was such a great choice you know karen gist wrote this episode and i and i thought that was such a wise observation to me make out loud. And it's something that you could so easily miss if you weren't listening. And I just loved it. You know, to have someone who tells you not to give up on your dreams, to have someone who tells you they're going to be there with you, it's really powerful. Because you can choose, you can change your mind about a dream. But to call it a fantasy

and say, it's not realistic, it'll never happen. Yeah, I don't like it. I think you got to, you got to keep going. Well, especially because how old are these characters? What are we supposed to be like 24? I know. Do I need to let my dream go? No, bitches. We're at our 40s still pursuing things. Keep going.

Wait, I have a question. I have a very important question. How long did it take to make that paper airplane catch work at the door? In the opening. I think that was a happy accident. Was it? Yeah, I was just supposed to throw them at him. I think that was a happy.

You know, Chad loves sports. It was a football catch with an accident. airplane, I guess. I'm just saying arts and crafts. It was so great. So many arts and crafts in this episode between Brooks doodling and Peyton's planes and Haley singing songs. We're just Victorian art. Shredding paper. I, guys, I love Victoria and Sam. And Sam. I do too. And I feel like such a traitor. But I love it. By the way, I should I should feel like a traitor. And I think it's so good. And one of my favorite things Daphne does is the fact that she calls Sam by her full name. Samantha. I like Samantha. She's plucky and dark. Such a great line. And by the way,

that made my hair raise up because I was like, Plucky and Dark, Peyton Sores, Plucky and Dark, and you never liked her. Well, she never liked Brooke either. Damn it. She's growing. Yeah, it's interesting to watch her maneuver with Sam, because you don't know if she's doing it to stick it to Brooke? You know, is this like a Dan Scott move? Remember when Dan had Lucas move in to piss Nathan off?

It's like, is this a Dan Scott move? Or is she just genuinely curious about this little animal who's so abrasive with her? Like maybe if Brooke had given it back as a teenager and sassed off to her mom, instead of trying to be pleasing, things would have been different.

you know she when she asks sam how did you weasel your way into my daughter's life and she's like well i shoplifted and then i had her assaulted and then she found me in a car loved it yeah it's really well done their dynamic is so good and this and this sort of intergenerational like buddy comedy they're doing matches the skills and jamie and it's just i just love love it. It is a buddy comedy for the girls. That's so true. But it's a buddy comedy done like Wednesday, like the Adams family. It's like, you know, dark and strange. And like it's just the two of them are so funny as themes through the episode. And I also really loved that in all of the things that they rightfully wrote for me to be enraged about, like you're manipulating a child

and you shredded these letters and how dare you. And this isn't your play. and, you know, all of it, the wound, just like you just had Hillary of like, but that's Peyton and Victoria never liked her. It's like, you're going to take this little girl who you called a street urchin shopping and I'm your child and you never took me? Yeah. I love that some of our like wounded teenage girls are popping out in response to seeing Victoria be kind.

Your delivery of that line hurt me. I was like, oh, God, I feel that. She never took me shopping. I mean, it's a complicated dynamic. I mean, the mother-daughter is always complicated, but yeah, thinking about how competitive Victoria has been, I mean, this is a tough sell for Victoria to be wanting to be seen as genuine and actually investing in Sam's life and trying to make amends when we know there's been so much in her past that's like just being competitive with Brooke.

It's in a really creepy way. Like, why are you competitive with your own child? It's weird. With all of her one-liners, right, I'm just wondering if young Victoria wasn't more like Sam. You know what I mean? Like, it's really easy for women as we get older to see complicated young people and tolerate their tomfoolery because we're like, oh, man, I was like that. Like, I love a tough teenage chick. Every time I meet one, I'm like, hey, kid, come over here.

You can talk to me. I think that there's a softness for kids that are open about their problems, you know? And Brooke always presented. So, like, I'm fine, I'm fine. Everything's fine. I'm the most popular. I'm the prettiest. I'm the most, you know, like, that could have been off-putting to poor Brooke's mother.

Oh, the hurt. Yeah, it's interesting. Because when Victoria behaves in her usual way in this episode, Sam calls her out on it. So this, you know, this motherless child is mothering my mother, essentially. And at the same time, there's something about Sam that's clearly making Victoria want to do over. And the way they manage to see each other, you know, Sam encourages her not to be so mean. and Victoria in her own way encourages Sam not to be defined by her past

and within this container you do see Victoria trying to get to Brooke the way she compliments my work and then walks over to Sam who immediately ribs her for it like nice chip at the wall you know as she gets defensive guys it's just occurring to me that Brooke's whole fixation with Sam

and like Julian who also says shitty things to her is that she's conditioned by her mother wound to be drawn to people who say abrasive shitty things to her. And Sam's just the youngest of all of them, right? And Sam is still malleable and able to turn her shittiness into vulnerability and honesty. But Brooke Davis is drawn to people who are, quote, unquote, Frank. Yeah. Well, of course she is because her mother's so manipulative.

Like, you never feel like, she would never feel like she has a safe space. She's got to have people around her who she knows or just telling her that's straight up truth. Because there's no, if there's any ambiguity, it's like, I don't trust you. Well, and what I think I like is because Brooke is so defensive with Victoria and is immediately like, I don't trust you, what are you doing?

What I love as a device is seeing the way, even though she's clearly very imperfect, the way Victoria loves her. She knows these things about her, but she doesn't know how to say it to Brooke, so she says it to Sam. She's like, I've seen this before. I know what this dynamic is.

She got her heart broken and she started this company. Who broke her heart? Who's the boy? What did he do? And it's like the most loving I've ever seen Victoria be about Brooke, but she can't do it to Brooke's face. So she has to do it to Sam. Yeah.

It's interesting that they didn't really touch on the fact that Brooke, Brooke is like, she's the one who wants to be a mom. She's the one who adopted Sam. So the fact that Victoria is coming in and now trying to be the mom-ish figure with Sam is problematic. I mean, they had Brooke focusing a lot on Victoria was never a mom to me, but she was, she's trying to be a mom to Sam. Is she trying to be a mom or she's trying to be a buddy?

Maybe both. I mean, it seems like she's trying to like re-redu some nurturing stuff that she never did with Brooke. I think that's really common, though. And we talked a little bit about this. You know, you were working on your other thing last week, hell. But, you know, we're all at that age now where, like, so many. of our friends have kids, or like y'all have kids, the reality is, like, we know parents who

weren't great, who are getting a second chance, who are great grandparents. Yeah. You know? And some of them, you know, don't get let back in at all because they were so not great. But, like, Victoria seems to be getting a second chance right now. And Brooke very much is like, you don't get to come back in here but but sam really will be a window through which victoria does come back to brook yeah and i i kind of love it even though i hate it on screen i love watching it i i saw myself in victoria's shoes in that scene where brook's like you told me you never wanted to have me and she's like you brought a gun to my apartment and accused me of trying to murder you you know like what are you talking about like we both were being insane

yeah points were made victoria look at her with the growth um and daphne's just so fun like what a cool thing for ashley to get to just like pal around with daphne all day downtown so much to learn also how does daphne get that volume in her hair i have to call her find out it looks Velcro rollers. Your hair was great this episode. Joy. You had, yeah,

you guys had great hair. It was big hair. Big hair episode. Big hair for you too. You had big hair. You did. Lots of big hair. They were so,

how many times have we played this beat of like the bedhead with the one teased something about Mary Chunk? I've done it two or three times. They've got poor Ashley doing it. You know, like everybody's doing the bedhead thing.

Yeah. Except for Brooke, who always wakes up with the happy bob. Happy Bob. Yeah. Well, oh, when I had, all these seasons that I had the bob, it was just, it was a one-trick pony. That was it. In the last episode, they really tried to give me that little ponytail and all it was was like a little nub, like a dog with a short tail, and like the snooky poof. It wasn't good.

But they tried. They were like, please give us some variety. Oh, I miss the proof, you guys. I miss it. It may look different, but native culture is. very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hillary, I need to know some things because because our pal, Nick Lachey, is married to your pal from MTV, the lovely Vanessa. I, how did he wind up on our show? Girl, I don't know.

Okay, I thought maybe you knew or maybe you made the intro because genuinely, when he's the one who walks in the door wanting to buy Haley's song for his album, I was like, that's how we found Nicolchet? Like, what? I was so confused. I couldn't remember why in later episodes this year he goes to the wedding with me. Oh my God, he does. He sticks around that long? Babe, he's my date to your wedding. I don't remember a lot of these episodes. Oh, I sure do. Because I was sort of, I mean, you know, I always, some of the devices we're doing are so great and unique and amazing. And then some of them, I think, are shitty. And what I didn't love was in this really

poignant storyline with Mia and Chase, which we will get to. They were like, oh, yeah, Brooke slept with him and she slept with Nicolus Shea. And she, I was like, what are we doing? Is Brooke so maternal that you have to remind people? She, like, has sex. Are we that base? You brazen, hussy. She's a hussy. So I was like, why are we doing this? And then it hit me like, oh, yeah, he sticks around and he goes with Brooke to Peyton's wedding. But I couldn't remember, because I don't remember how long they've been together now. I didn't know if we somehow got to Nick Lachay through you, Vanessa, TRL. No, I've known Nick since, like, you know, the newlyweds days before even.

Okay. And he was always, like, Nick's always been such a down cool guy. He was cool. He's just a dude, you know, and doesn't pretend to be anything other than, like, a guy's guy. He's hanging out with the grips and stuff. Yeah. I think what our show realized in the. last two seasons is that stunt casting worked really well on our show. So Kevin Federline coming in

and having that arc got a lot of buzz in the magazines. And then James Vanderbeak coming in and playing this part that got a lot of attention. They're like, okay, what other guy can we bring in that is stunt casting that doesn't quite fit? So gets us onto the soup again, you know? Yeah. And when we first come back in season five, after that time jump, isn't he one of the nicks that your mom names? It's like which nick are we going out with here? Oh my God, I forgot about that. This is a callback.

That's so funny. And he, in a way, reminds the audience of that going like, oh, wow, well, what is she up to now? You know, like, he wants to reconnect. And it is, it's an interesting tie-in that it wound up working like that. I love that Brooke Davis doesn't give her shit about. about Julian in this episode. Not a word. No. She's just like, busy. Busy, man. I just cried in the airport for five whole minutes, busy.

And I appreciate that as a woman. Because I feel like if a man had written this episode, there would have been a soliloquy somewhere about like, I locked myself in the bathroom at night. Yeah, there would have been some heartbreak. And I love that because Karen did it, it's, it's Victoria's observation rather than Brooke having to do on-screen exposition. Yes, yes, yes. So good. And then Nick's just a reminder that, like, she can get whatever she wants. Yeah.

She doesn't have to go to L.A. L.A. comes to her. Yeah. Well, and I love that in a way he continues your joke, Joy, where, you know, sweet Kate is like, but she's Brooke Davis. And you're like, yeah, you're Mia Catalano. And it, like, goes back and forth, back and forth. And then Nick says to Chase, like, yo, Brooke Davis.

And poor Kate's just like, say, you know, she's so. It's so, it's just so, so funny. And it allows Stephen to come in and pick up where Haley left off and be like, but you're the one. Like, you're the one I'm really, like, grown up in love with. And it's so cutie. So here's something I thought was weird. When Mia is, speaking of that moment, when Mia is saying she's so insecure because, you know,

his first time was with Brooke. And Haley's like, yeah, well, you know, you're pretty great too, basically. But she just brushes it off and she's like, I don't want to talk about this anymore. Haley is focused. She's focused. But what's so weird is that considering how big of a deal it was to Haley in high school when she found out that... Oh, that's right. Haley was obsessed about this.

Right or wrong, she knows what it feels like. So the fact that when Mia is really freaking out, she's just like, get over it. It's fine. Wait, but isn't that the advice that Brooke Davis gave to Haley in high school? like pass this is dumb nobody cares well but and the reality is like the way I took it joy was that

Haley is like I'm not opening this can of worms because if I do I'm going to have to tell you that my husband lost his virginity to my sister my husband slept with Brooke my husband slept with Peyton my husband you know like she's going to have to be like you think you have it bad like literally Nathan has slept

with every woman in Tree Hill but why didn't she but that actually would have been great to say And it's helpful of like, look at where we are today. Like, you just got to get over it. Well, and also, like, that's literally what happens in small towns. Yes. Guys, living in a small town right now, yes.

That I'm here. I met a woman who lived here in the village. My office is in the village. And she was like, during the pandemic, I saw every affair in town because they would have clandestine meetings and parking lots and just hold hands with the masks on through the cars and stuff. I was like, tell me every. Everything. Small town people just, it's docey dough, man. It's like square dancing. You got to get it where you can. And it's usually within like a four mile radius. Yeah. People are lazy. I live out of the village, by the way. So not participating. Not participating. No, we, we, we, we've had enough of that. God. I'm so happy to be old and settled at this point. Like, it just is a delicious, delicious place to view it. everybody else is bullshit from.

I felt for Mia in this, but I also was like, would Mia care? Because they have her as this like edgy, lippy girl in so many of the other episodes. And here she's so like, I'm confused about whether or not Mia dated Kevin Fedderline because I saw online

somewhere that he was her ex-boyfriend. And I was like, what? I don't remember that. Is Mia a virgin? is, because we just did that storyline with Millie. I don't think we ever even talked about that. Like, Millie just did this storyline of virginity with mouth and Rachel and, like, all the chicks that mouth has dated, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Her insecurity over that. And I was like, for all the virginity storylines we're doing in season six about grown-ass adults, why didn't we do these storylines in season one and two with children? Yeah. Strange. I don't know. I think it's dumb that Haley didn't want to sell her song. Why? You think? Absolutely. But baby, like, maybe you just didn't want it to sell it to Nick Lichet. If Grace Potter had walked in there, Haley would have been like, okay, girl, neat. No, I think a girl living in a small town who's not like, I mean, I don't know. Maybe I, maybe I, I don't think I ever got a real grasp on how, if, how popular Haley was, it was very vague if it was like, I just, I don't really know. But, man, I can tell you, living in Nashville now and working with songwriters on a regular basis, yeah, like, I know what it feels like when a label comes to you, it's happened to me a few months ago, actually, they come and they're like, we love, like, these five songs, we want to, we want to sell them. Like, can we send them out to artists?

And you have to make the decision. Do I want to keep them for myself? and just try and do something with them later, or do I sell them? And the amount of people that I've talked to about this, and the answer is always sell them. Oh, sell them. I mean, there might be one or two

that you feel really special about that you want to hold on to, but you can always write more songs. There's an unending supply of creativity. If you're a writer, you can just keep generating. Or you can go record them yourself later after they're a hit.

Yeah, absolutely. Didn't Casey Musgraves, do a lot of that. She was writing for Miranda Lambert. Oh, yeah. You know. And now look at her. Yeah. Killing it. Well, by the way, this song was not actually, for those of you at home. This was not written, obviously, by Haley, who is not a real person, nor was it written by me. It wasn't? No, the song was written by Kara DiGuardi and Jess Kate's. Wonderful songwriters, both of them. Long, long, long list of very famous songs. You can go look up. Did Nick actually wind up releasing this song?

Mm-hmm. Okay. Wow. Yeah, he released it as a single. I think that's probably one of the deals. Like, we brought him in and it was, it was like, what do you have coming up? Maybe they had been dealing with his PR people or something. And he was like, I got this single. We'll write it into the show. Extra Press. Yeah. Is he on a Warner Brothers label? Don't know. It might have been. But yeah, it felt interesting because it sounded obviously like a well-produced song. like the track in the episode. Haley whipped that out. It was so fast.

I was like, damn, Haley's a good producer. It's like, Brut Davis, make it a dress. The best song Haley's ever done. Look, it took an hour. But yeah, it was funny to me watching it happen because I was like, oh, I sort of love that Haley's like, oh, you want to sing my song, prove it, do it now. Yeah.

Like, no prep. I also was dying laughing. I was like, okay, go off, Nick Lichet, you just already have it perfectly memorized. You don't need a music sheet, fine. Like, there's no little podium stand. in that recording studio for him? No, we don't have time for that.

Just like, prove yourself to me, sir. There was one moment where he gave Haley the 98 degrees boy band Point. And I would, I died. I was screaming. How are you keeping a straight face? Like, I loved it. I loved that.

So funny. He's a good time. Does Mia end up doing a duet with it? Like, do you end up doing a duet with him? I'm so curious about the trajectory of this Nick Lechay arc. Does he come back? Me too.

Yes, Sophie was saying he comes to my wedding with her. Well, Joy was going to get her computer charger. He's my date to Peyton and Lucas's wedding, because I'm mad at Julian. We made him sit there for three days in a wedding set? Yeah. We sure did. That's amazing. We put him in like a men's warehouse tucks.

He's a good sport. I thought, men's warehouse tacks. We sure do. I think he's a fine actor. I mean, he was given sitting at that bar really good. little zingers. Very comfortable on camera. Yeah. Yeah. Why doesn't Nick Glissay do more acting? That's a good question. I don't know, because he's charming. I don't know. I can text Vanessa, Vanessa, hi baby. What's your husband doing right now? Right? Yeah. I love it. I really loved when

they got together. That was a TRL match made in heaven. Love those two. That was very cute. Oh, he's hosting Love is Blind. They hosted together, yeah. Which is fun. But I got to say he actually is he is a good actor i enjoy watching him on camera yeah he has a good quality i think uh i think he's understanding himself by only doing reality i think he could get a get a job as an actor somewhere come on nick let us know what guys we're gonna cast nick and something let's do it here we come okay what else happened in this episode i mean it's just so much because i keep confusing 20 and 21 now i'm still thinking about poor jack and sam oh oh oh Kind of off of Chase and Mia, Peyton says something about, when did Peyton kiss Chase?

It was when we first came back. And we were at a pool party. And I was there to hook up with Lucas, but he was with Lindsay. And then Brooke was back. And I don't know if she was talking to Owen yet. But Chase was like, sup. She's back. And we were just sitting there looking like losers. And he leaned in and kissed me. And I was like, bro, I don't want to hook up. with any more of brook's boyfriends and he was like no we're just making them jealous and we turned around and you guys were staring at us that was a really long explanation thank you because i have no recollection of that i don't know why that moment passed through my brain it was kind of a blip but it you know it was a big moment for mea yeah because if peyton being like i've kissed him no it was definitely twice sorry i mean he's a great kisser being able to objectively say that someone's a great kisser, I think is something that really only happens in our industry. I don't know. It's true. Oh, we had Amy Tipton, too. A little cameo from Amy. Well, because Amy was friends

with Erica. Right? Yeah, that's right. And Flaming Amy's was like a staple in town that's over by the college campus. And it's this, I don't even know what it. It's like a bowl. What was it? Taco bowl? It's a chicken spot. It's so. I don't know if I ever went there. It's a cool-looking little diner, though. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's the day that Chad and I found out that the show wasn't coming back. I'm sorry, I take it back, that the show was coming back just without us. Wait, the day you were shooting your Flaming Amy's flashback.

yeah tell us everything well we'd shot everything else right wait wait so you were doing these flashbacks these like this deep nostalgia episode not knowing that it was teeing up the exit so oh boy i was putting the blonde wig again as a punishment for having red hair right and i noticed a conversation with like brook and victoria where it was like are you really really really going to leave the company and ruin the careers of all the people that you've been like such a pointed conversation for you to have to have because we were all in contract negotiations at this point except me. I had never gotten a phone call from anybody. And so they're making offers to everybody and everyone was trying to hold the line. And all they needed were a couple

people to sign on in order for the show to come back. And Chad and I never even got phone calls. So we were seated in that diner booth And we're like it's our last day of filming We did all of the present day stuff We did most of the flashback stuff And all of a sudden our producer, Greg Prange Is like, all right everybody like pause what you're doing Circle up just wanted to make the announcement

The show is coming back We've been picked up for a seventh season And Chad looks at me And he's like, have you even gotten an offer? And I was like, no. And he's like, I haven't gotten an offer. And so around us, everyone around us is like hugging and high-fiving. I mean, it felt like balloons were dropping from the ceiling. Everybody was so fucking pumped. And he and I just kind of sat there. And we knew it was coming. We had,

you know, Payton got hit by a car in the last episode. She's on her death bed, you know. And he and I were the highest paid actors on the show. And we do. We were on the chopping block. And so our bosses, Voldmort and other dipshits, were in town, and we said, can they come to set? They were at the production office, and we were at Flaming Amy's. Well, like, can they come to set? It's only at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Can they come here? And just, like, explain to us what's going on is there's something, can someone just talk to us?

Yeah. They refused. They would not come speak to us. And instead, they took other actors out to dinner that night. to celebrate. And so Chad and I wrap work. And I got to take that fucking wig off. And, you know, there's a sense of betrayal because you're like, huh, okay.

Cool. We didn't hold the line. And so we'll go be the expendable ones. Fuck it. And Chad and I decide for the first time ever in our time together in Wilmington that we're going to go out together and we're going to tie one on. And so Chad and I ended up at the whiskey. which was like a bar right on the corner of downtown, you know,

and like metal bands played there and Bibbis, our friend would play there all the time. Until 2 o'clock in the morning, he and I are just like sweating and smoking and drinking and dancing. And Chad's a very good dancer. And every college chick in the place is like, oh my God, it's Lucas and Peyton, and they're really together, and this is so crazy.

And it was insane. And so then from 2 to 3 o'clock in the morning, we sat on like a retaining wall downtown and just really discussed like, we're out. We've had this shit dangled over our heads. There's no one here who's fighting for us, you know? The friendships are fake. It's not real. And we're going to go and we're just going to do some other stuff and we'll always tell each other the truth, you know? And so he walked me home, and I remember that also being kind of weird.

It felt like a date. It's the one date that Chad and I went on, and it was very platonic. And then I called him a cab. And even the cab driver was like, I'm picking up Lucas Scott from Peyton Sores' house. Like, crazy, it was crazy. But from that moment on, for the whole rest of this season, it was, it was hell. It was really bad. It was really bad because it was so pointed.

You know, I'd been the person to do every upfront, every TCA, every advertiser dinner party. I hosted the launch party for the CW when it, you know, when UPN, I had been the company girl and it was the biggest, fuck you. And there were two episodes left at this point, right? What is this, 21? I think we did 24 this season. Oh, we did 24, okay. I think so. Yeah. And so it just puts in your head. You just look at everyone around you and you're like, I don't know what relationships are real. And I don't know which ones are performative and who's used me and who actually loves me. And so that was that was hard. It was really hard. But Chad and I had this magic night. We still laugh about it. I mean, it was probably the hardest I ever partied in Wilmington. And he did.

didn't really drink. So I remember being shocked, shocked that he was drinking his like vodka cranberries or whatever. I think we were both just so blindsided by it. Like we, we knew it was coming, but until it happens. That is wild hearing that all these years later. Like I had no idea. It's awful. That's wild. And I think what's so surreal. And to your point, and we talked about this a little bit last week that speech that like oh are you really going to risk this for everyone it's the same thing we got when we asked for help with our boss people were like toughen up you're going to ruin it you're going to ruin it for everybody like oh you guys can't figure out how to navigate like a guy hitting on you oh the horror like grow up all these people who have children will lose their jobs if

you ruin it and you know we had that on our set I had that on my fucking next set like we there was so much that was constantly told to us and the thing that like is giving me the visceral feeling that you're talking about is realizing like oh these relationships aren't real because I remember how hard all those people Voldemort and his little sidekick and all the people in power on our show would say to us this is a family this is a family you have to protect your family you have to show up for your family you know all all these people on our crew have families and they're a part of our family like they hit you so hard with like you know families deal with shit and so do we here and then you realize like oh you want

me to prioritize y'all like my family but you you don't even think of me as a co-worker you think of me as like a line item on a budget yeah exactly oh and it's such an uneven scale and what was so surreal and you know we've obviously talked about this a lot and i want to be careful but like the thing that was so wild was you know in in relation particularly to you and chad like at least for me being told like well you're the expendable one we added you last we could get rid of you first you know they put everybody in these positions where we were like oh they're going to be okay but I'm gonna go oh they're gonna and I don't know it's it's like a really dark thing to do to a bunch of 24 year old I I'm uh every as this the season's winding down I think this is the

closure that I needed because I always knew like that I was I was right to walk away from this situation because it was awful and my life is awesome because of that betrayal. I met my husband. I had my kids. I got to do white collar with Willie Garson and Matt Bowman. Like my life is so much better because I was betrayed here. And that's the thing that maybe I want anybody that listens to this to walk away with.

It's like the betrayal just opened the door for all the awesome shit that I have now. And the people who pushed me aside to leverage themselves had, to stay there and live in it. And so that feels good. And live with themselves for doing that. Well, if they're even aware that they did it. If they're aware. Yeah.

You know. But that was kind of the fun of watching this episode today for me. Is that I didn't take notes because I knew that it was a shit episode for me personally. And I was like, I'm just going to enjoy it as a viewer. And I did. Like, I loved it as a viewer. I liked, I like who I. our characters are as people.

I think that they're fun to watch and, you know, they play well nicely and I get why people love it. People who don't know the backstory, it's super easy to love. Well, because everything you see on screen is good. And, you know, it's such an example of that adage, like, be kind because you just, you never know what battles people are fighting. Like, we made a great product despite the ways we were being manipulated and mistreated. And at the end of the day, like, I don't know, man, I'm proud of the product.

And I know we've had to say this to the fans. Like, we don't want you to love the show less because of what was happening behind the scenes. In a way, it taught us a lot. I mean, Hill, what you went through, like, I remember when I, because it wasn't when this was all happening. Like, I remember when I finally got told that you weren't coming back. And it was like, that's not possible. Like, I don't understand.

Or are they going to do the show without them? And the conversations we had, like, that summer. You and I met up in L.A. that summer. We had a fucking time. Like, we talk about carrying on the tradition of tying one on. We were like, let's just sit here and open all these beers and talk about it. And, like, my God. When I got the inside baseball from you, like the pride, I mean, like, and we've talked about

this too. Like, I will always defend you to the death. Like, I know exactly who you are in the way that I know you know exactly who I am. And I think, you know, if I may, for me, years later, when I was going through what I was going through in Chicago, I was like, oh, I can just leave. Yeah, you can just leave. Like, I've good soldiered, I've pretzled myself, I've done everything I'm supposed to do. I've gone by the book.

I've gone by the personal relationships. I've done the reporting. I've done it all. And I was like, if it's not going to matter, I'm going to leave. I learned that from one of my best friends. I'm just going to fucking leave. Y'all don't have to deal with that bullshit. You don't.

You don't. It's like, it's really so empowering, though. And I think to your point, like when you talk about what came after, you know, where it shifted you, the friendships it gave you, the marriage it led you to, like, your whole life. It was a lesson then that you learned. It was a lesson that I courageously, I felt like I had the courage to learn on my own because of our friendship. Like, rejection sometimes is such protection. Yeah. And, you know, even like, holy hell, like have I learned that in the last year? And, oh, I will take it all day. Because when you,

when you can finally stand and say, I'm going to trust my instincts here. Yeah. And then, then you get all the receipts, and you're like, look at me, I made a good decision. Yeah, the veil drops. Mm-hmm. But it changes your life in a way, like everything shifts. I think when you finally say, okay, if this is not for me, see ya. What comes the minute you put your hands up is so profound. And I don't know.

It's really wild to see how much romantic happiness and fun you guys were having on screen and knowing what was happening off screen. But like, I don't know. I love this place for you. I don't love the wound, but I love what the wound gave you. Well, that's how we can still appreciate what we see on camera in the stories. told is knowing that there's no perfect product there's no perfect relationship there's no perfect anything it's always going to be a bit messy and the things that the hard things that we go

through make us who we are being able to walk away from something that takes you a really long time to realize that it's unhealthy is incredibly powerful and I've had to do that in my own In my own ways, it wasn't with the show in particular because I didn't deal with a lot of the same stuff that you guys did in that dynamic. I mean, I did, I think, on the peripheral, but yeah, it does kind of knowing the sweetness of all the good things that have come makes me happy watching, watching this episode, watching things that. There's nothing better than a girl that has just hit the point of like, fuck this, right? Like, because then everything after that is fun. Like, I had fun because I knew I was out. I rented my apartment in Paris that I never went to because I met Jeffrey.

You know, like, shit just got fun. So I'm looking forward to future fun in these episodes because we gave zero fucks at this point. You stop trying to hold on and make everybody else happy. You're like, you know what? I'm going to go do what's best for me. Peace. Well, you know what? Like, a girl who's run out of fucks to give becomes dangerous.

And it's really fun when you realize, like, oh, oh, I'm dangerous now. When you establish the reputation as being the one that'll tell the truth, that's a powerful place to be. So we have a question, though. We have a question from Natalie. She says, if you had to pick another location for OTH to be filmed or based in, where would it be? I felt so spoiled in Wilmington. It still is the prettiest place I've ever worked. And I've worked all over the fucking place.

I loved it. Yeah, gosh. I can't imagine it being filmed anywhere else. But good God, do I wish it was filmed somewhere with a direct flight. Same. They still don't have one. We still don't have one. How do we not have like a Wilmington to Burbank?

Like what are we doing? Yeah. don't we have one LA direct because there's not a runway long enough to land a big cross-country plane there that's why I mean or yeah they can only it's only like that little new york puddle jumper you know that's that's the joke in the episode that Nick Lachey makes is that he's like I rode in the middle yeah a middle seat and coach yeah there was a town when I was in high school My best friend in high school's family had a lake house It's a place called Green Pond

And it's just this gorgeous little lake community In New Jersey, which is so beautiful I mean the folly It's the garden state, you know I mean the foliage is unbelievable And it's a really Kids fishing on the dock, ice cream in the summer Golf carts roaming around

Everybody's just, it's a free-for-all Like you just let your kids go and come back at dinner like it was the 80s. And it still is like that. I went back a couple years ago and it's still like that. And it's the closest thing I could think of to what Tree Hill would have felt like. So that's going to be my vote. When I saw Megan Parks movie, my old ass at Sundance, this location, I'm trying to, where the hell is it? This location in Canada, Muscoca Lakes. You guys. It gave such tree hill vibes.

It was like cranberry bogs. But the water was like so beautiful and everything was green and kind of like they had a little small town and falling in love on the docks. I just loved it. No, it's so beautiful. A lot of the folks who worked on the Good Sam crew, like a lot of our local Toronto crew had grown up with like little lake houses up in Muscoca. It's so gorgeous. She's trying to lure me up there. I'm like, let's go.

Let's go visit. Okay, neat. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What was our honorable mention?

I mean, I like school dances. I like the school dance. I loved that. I was happy to see BJ Britt back too. I really like him. I really like him. camera. I wish we would have kept him for longer. Who plays Devon.

Yeah. Also, I think Nathan should have taken the European offer. I can't believe Haley didn't want to go to Europe. I know. Like, on what planet? It's two years. It's like, yeah, babe, let's go. Yeah, cool. Be there. Sell your song. I can write an album in Europe. Fine. She just wanted to pull Jamie out of school in the last episode, you know? Like, they've only got one. Just go. Nobody thought this through. No. Well,

But was that thinking about how things were going, like, was that part of the threat for you guys, Joy? Was it like, oh, well, if you don't, if you guys don't do this, we'll just say Nathan takes this deal? Yeah. Be like, bye. Yeah, I mean, it was all the, and it's the same negotiating tactics that they used to do, and maybe I'm sure plenty of people still do it, of telling everybody that everyone else is. is already signed on, is already negotiated. Oh, well, I know you guys are trying to do favorite nations, but so-and-so already agreed to sign their contract.

And so it's, and then, you know, we're calling agents and the agents are going, no, we haven't heard anything from them, but we, they told us that you, blah, blah, blah, and it becomes such a huge mess. I just, yeah, I remember that that was definitely one of the storylines that was like, oh, we're just getting ready to tie this up if we need to. so i don't i don't know i don't remember anything past that i just know that it was definitely

a threat of like this show goes on without haley easy go ahead well yeah yeah i always love that you're we can do this without you you're like okay have fun have fun colin bluffs but b j britt gets my honorable mention or the comment i love seeing the comic worked on, too. That's another honorable mention. We got a wheel today. What do we have happening? I think so. It is me.

It is me. I have you. Yes. I have no defense against that. like it's me i'll yeah i don't like feelings oh god they're so hard feelings it's really hard parenting very emotional children because i want to crack a joke when george is feeling big feelings yeah and i can't i can't and i have to like get down on my knees and be like tell me everything about your feelings not crack that's my that's all the acting i do now and it is all my energy. But who on our show is like the crack up? It's Haley on the show. Haley's always like,

didn't you have a nervous laughter thing in an episode? Yeah, Haley is always kind of like trying to make things better by making them worse. Yeah, she's like, we got married. It's a Haley trick. I see that. I think so. Yeah, I would say Haley or like, Antoine likes to make a joke in an inappropriate moment. It does. You know, skills is always in with a one-liner. How about the teacher in this episode? Like, I need some breakup sex or something. Like, what would she say rebound sex? I was like, girl. Well, I was like, what the hell? And then she was like, kidding, kidding. I was like, okay. But she was putting out a vibe. Vibed. Not kidding. Yeah, loved it. All right, what do we have next episode? We got a season six, episode 22, show me how to live.

That sounds like it's going to be dramatic. Sure will. Can't wait. Well done, everybody. Thanks for joining. Hillary. You get my honorable mention for literally running out of fuchs. It's my favorite version of you.

Let's see what happens. I don't know that I ever got them back. Did I ever regain the fuchs? I sure hope not. I don't think so, guys. They broke me. Yeah. Have a great week.

All right. See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queen, drama queen, drama. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.