Drama Queens - The Bad Guys Club • Ep. 907

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Sophia, Joy and Rob are full of questions this week as they unpack Nathan’s kidnapping storyline like, “why Tree Hill, why Dimitri, and how exactly does Dan Scott know obscure Eastern European gang symbols?!” The gang also gets a big surprise when Lucas makes his return to Tree Hill!  Plus, they dish on an unlikely relationship that’s quickly becoming a favorite and the performance Joy swears might be the best she’s ever seen.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Sophia, Joy, and Rob with an all-new episode of Drama Queens. Where? Oh, here, here, it's here, here, you're there, now.

Welcome in, everybody. Today we've got season nine, episode seven, last known surroundings. Air date February 22nd, 2012. Synopsis reads, Haley seeks help from Lucas as Nathan makes an escape attempt. Brooke comes face to face with Xavier. Julian uncovers evidence that assists Dan in his search for Nathan, and Clay makes a connection with another patient. This is not our best synopsis,

as Clay did not make a connection with another patient in this episode. Yeah, wasn't that the last one or the next one? Yeah, with Logan. Nonetheless, let's not bury the lead. It was directed by the sex pylon himself, Austin Nichols. Oh, wow. What a ride this episode was. Look, we went fully into the deep. There was just, there was no relief. It was fully, like, let's just dive into the darkness of all of it. Which is fine. I mean, all these storylines are needing to be resolved. So, okay. But it did feel a lot like all of these storylines are needing to be resolved. And so we're just going to shove everything in there at once. I know there was 44 minutes of content, but I've, I really, like, a lot didn't actually happen. That part.

Yeah. I'm not, and I'm not saying it's a bad episode, but as I kind of reviewed my notes, even when I, like, I woke up this morning, I was trying to just think about the episode. It was like, they're really, it felt like it could have been 22 minutes of content, like wall to wall. And they just sort of like stretched it out. Oh, so I just thought it was, I kept pausing it when I was, watching it, I had to keep pausing it for all different interruptions. So the episode felt packed to me, I think, because it was so long and drawn out that I was like, man, there's

just so much going on. But maybe all back to back, it didn't feel that way. Yeah, I don't know. I guess because so much of it was static and so many things have been moving around, right? But we spent so much time in the warehouse with Nathan and the kidnappers. We spent so much time with Haley and Lucas at the airport, which, by the way, like, what an iconic moment, right? Like, Lucas Scott walking through the doors, you're like, oh, my God, he's finally back. And then they just, I literally at one point wrote, are they going to keep them in the airport for the whole episode? Same. Yeah.

Because I didn't remember that by the end, you would figure out that he was going to take the kids back, you know, to be with him and Peyton. And I literally was like, why are we wasting Haley and Lucas in the freaking airport? Like you're going to go to the food court? What's happening? It felt like Chad flew into town and was like, I'm going to land. Have your cameras rolling. I'm going to shoot my scenes and my flight leaves four hours later. Yeah.

Because I'm with you. So if I had notes from like, are we really not going to leave the airport? And especially what makes it extra awkward is you guys are having such a sensitive private discussion. Yes. And you are choosing to do it in a middle of a sea of people. Yes. Which just feels so counterintuitive. Not to say the grossest thing in the world, but like Haley James Scott and Nathan Scott are both famous.

And guess what you don't do if you're in a personal crisis and you're a public figure is talk about it out loud and cry in public where people can like ease drop and call like a tablet. It's, it felt so weird to me. And even the fact that you guys wouldn't pick him up and like go for a drive and go get lunch and then drive back to the airport. Yes. Like to waste Lucas's return and not go over the bridge. Like what are we doing? And wondering at the whole time instead of just knowing that he's there to pick up the kids.

Like that that would have solved the mystery right away. And then I guess we would have understood. But to be, yeah, I also felt really dissatisfied with my performance in this. because I felt like it was so grossly underplayed. I was just like, I mean, there's so many opportunities to really get vulnerable and break down and, like, actually, she's in the arms of her best friend so she can finally freak out. But now that you're saying that, I'm like, actually, that maybe that's why I didn't

because we were in a public place and I didn't want to freak out my kids. But like, it just felt like I'm listening to the dialogue and the stakes are so high. and I was kind of barely, it seemed like I was barely upset. It seemed like I was upset in a way that's like, I'm worried that somebody I love is going to die before I get there. Like somebody's in a bed in a hospital somewhere dying and I feel sad and I'm a little anxious about getting there on time, not like, oh my God, my husband is missing and probably dead.

I hear you on that, but I think that's one of those things where as an actor, you wonder if you should have done more. But as a viewer, if you had fully, again, As a famous rock star, if you had fully lost your shit in the airport with 400 people looking at you, I would have been like, girl, you are famous. Rain it in, you know? And your child is there watching. And your baby's there. Yeah, I'm with soap on this one.

I completely get it. But as a viewer, I bought it. Because also, I don't even think Haley is all there right now. One of my first notes was just like the incredibly difficult position Haley is in because, you know, because. She's never fully allowed to just be with the Nathan's situation because she's parent. She's solo parenting and having to not break down in front of these kids. So she is putting on this long form acting for her children's sake while going through this. So I thought everything you played totally made sense and was extra appropriate given that you never left the middle of an airport.

Totally. Yeah, they really boxed Austin in, didn't they? Like, what else was he supposed to do with that? This whole episode, though, was odd in the sense that everyone stayed in their spot. With the exception of Brooke, like Brooke and Julian, they got to beat their house and they got to be at the jail. And then you got to be at Cairns. But, like, we had, what, four or five scenes with Clay and respectfully, like, we don't really learn much new information at all. And we don't get to see any big progress being made.

I feel like, like, Clay's stuff, it's part of the reason why I'm like, wow, this is like, it got stretched a bit, is that the four scenes of clays felt like it could have been one long one or two short ones, and we would have gotten exactly the same payoff. It's interesting you say that, though, as a, watching it, I really enjoyed watching you do the slow chip away with the doctor. I thought the payoff of realizing that he thinks about a family with Quinn was so lovely because it was really tender and it was really sensitive. But I get what you're saying, where if there'd been one more pass on the script,

we probably could have had one less scene at the airport, one less seen in therapy. Like, it felt like they were drawing it out to get to 908 instead of giving 907 a little more juice. Yes. And that being said, though, I'm with you. I love, I enjoy those scenes. I really, I think David Naronia is great in the role of the therapist. And here's a fun one for me. I didn't remember the whole clay was going to drive until he couldn't drive anymore and then take his own life. That was news to me. Yeah.

Holy cow. I didn't remember that at all, which feels crazy. So, yeah, there was just a lot of people, all of the kidnapping stuff, which guys, let's, we'll get to that. But oh boy. Yeah, we'll get there. I will say, I really appreciated because I felt like certain things were a little overwritten. Like your stuff, Rob, I thought was really beautiful. That big revelation for Clay, which is so heavy.

And again, I thought all your stuff worked because it was this quiet time between two men talking. And it's a different way to have these big emotional. reveals in a show like ours. And I was refreshed by that and I thought that was so well done. I thought like, and this is no knock obviously on James. He played it great. But I was like, it's such a weird thing to have a guy be told he's going to be killed and then to say like, I'm not going to give you my fear. I'm like, it felt a little overdone like the kidnapper quoting Shakespeare feels overdone to me. I'm like, okay. choice for the writer's like this has almost ruined shakespeare for me almost i just i don't i get

fully agree and and so it was so weird like some of it i thought was so almost poetic and then some of it felt so forced and the one thing that i was like ooh i really appreciated the officer stevens character coming to check on you because i wrote wait what don't i remember is he a good guy or a bad guy I thought his choices were so great. I thought the way Austin directed the two of you was so great because I was like, oh, thank God, somebody cares because the cops aren't doing their job. And then I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Is this like a double agent? So some of it worked so well. And then some of it was just like so heavy-handed and I don't get it. When he switched the guns and took the knife, I was like, oh, no, oh, no. That was good. Mm-hmm. It was fun. I don't know about good, but it was fun.

Well, it's just, it's funny because the guy who you just don't want to escape, why would you even put it, why wouldn't you just put the gun on him and be like, back in the chair? Right. It's, it's, it's just more. Well, why does he go through the show of being like, hey, I'm a good guy. Come here. Take my gun.

There's my gun that I've emptied without you. Why wouldn't he just be like, hey, pal, back in the chair and put the gun in James face? that's all it's just that it was he just wants to have fun do i have to do everything myself yeah what i don't get is why does every bad guy want to punch nathan it's like every bad guy who goes in there has to do it oh wait isn't it sort of like the comment section of the internet like nathan scott is an NBA star so everyone's like let me take this guy down a knot And it's like, no, literally everyone who sees him just hits him. And isn't that kind of like the internet?

It's like he's the ultimate hero. And so everybody gets a shot. Everyone's like, oh, you think you're hot. I'm going to take you down a peg. And it's like, that's a fun interaction to have with every human I run into it in a day. By the way, James takes a punch so well. Like, I just loved the expression on his face. He looks so genuinely like, like emotionally hurt.

he's more disappointed than mad yeah yeah yeah it's like oh come on guys why didn't you do that to me Nathan Scott is so emotionally evolved he you know he has a nine year hero's journey on our show yeah and it is I wonder if part of what we see is that he's like people still behave like this is that that look on his face with you yeah um you know what I did not have in on my episode 907 bingo card was the Russian kidnapper quoting gossip girl. Oh my gosh. Yes. He's like, what are you, Chuck?

Referencing, yeah, referencing gossip girl. And he says it. What are you, Chuck? Is this gossip girl? Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story. along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. let's rewind a bit when dan goes up to the drug dealer in the park earlier remember at the top of it he was finishing a call with a man named dmitri who in this episode we see this same clay's dealer going to this guy dmitri for drugs so we realize it's the same guy which means dmitri is a local criminal which then just confuses me as to how he begins became like tree hill's a small place and i'm always amazed that just some of the niche people we have so like this he's a he's like a homegrown criminal he's a local guy but he has ties to eastern europe yeah it's like so the so the eastern europeans sent a a syndicate block to tree hill north carolina of all places it seems like they've got an inn with the tree hill cop somehow they knew how to find the bad cop in Tree Hill and the bad cop knew how to find the drug dealers that could help him out and by the way the villain's story for the bad cop is that he's

actually such a good cop and no one will give him a shot so he decides to be a bad guy that was fantastic oh my gosh I could also tell this was pre-COVID in a different time because in that opening scene, Nathan's like, I'm thirsty. And the guy gives him a bottle of water and like jams it into his mouth and James, Nathan drinks it. And then the Demetri walks away and then he takes a big slug out of it with his mouth on it. And I was like, ooh. And I remember, oh yeah, back then this that wouldn't have been, Cudies weren't such a big deal. It also, that moment confused me just in terms of a choice or if that was written on the page, I'm not sure. But like what, it felt like it was supposed to be a threatening moment,

and I didn't understand what about him drinking water was supposed to feel threatening to Nathan. We just, like, lingered on that. Like, I'm going to drink this water now. I'm going to take your water for myself. I think you both are underestimating how menacing hydration is. We should take this one to the internets and ask. You guys, parts of this episode honestly made me feel driven to drink.

Like, it just, I don't know, man. And again, it's like, it's a weird thing. I don't know if you guys are having this experience. It's weird to me knowing that 9-13 is going to be our final episode. Oh, my gosh. And knowing that we came into season nine, absolutely certain. Everyone was on the same page. We're going to do 13 final episodes.

It's basically a mini-series season. Locked in contracts done. There was no way. could renew. There was no way they could. And there was no extraordinary circumstances that were going to happen. This was it. And then some of these not well fought through things are the plot points. And it's like, how was this not? How was every scene in season nine, not one of the best scenes we ever, that were ever written on our show? You know what I mean? Do you know when Game of Thrones ended and everybody was like freaking out because it felt like it was kind of a throwaway? I mean,

I've gone back to watch since and I actually think it was great and all the signs were there from the beginning, but that's beside my point right now, which is that the writers had been hired, I believe, to go do the new Star Wars series. And so they were, a lot of people felt like, oh, maybe they're phoning it in because it's the end of Game of Thrones. It's all over and they've got other jobs. And I'm wondering watching this, just to hit your point, Sophia, that I'm wondering if it was like everybody was looking for another job. And they were just like, how do we just get this over with? But it wasn't pilot season.

That's the whole reason we did 13 episodes. Oh, remember? Like the whole point was that we were going to be wrapped by November. So everybody would be able to take November and December and like see their families for the first time in a decade and then get into pilot season in January, February. So nobody was staffed on other shows. There were no other writer's rooms hiring because everyone was on there. So it's just so.

weird to me and maybe maybe it's almost that thing of when the pressure feels so high you almost I don't want to say sabotage yourself I don't want to like suggest that I think that's what was happening here but you know I'm the first person who if I'm like I'm going to really be good to myself I'm not going to eat things that trigger my asthma and then like literally for the next three weeks all I can do is eat fried chicken like I don't know if it's the kind of thing where you put so much pressure on yourself that you kind of come up short. or you panic or you know your mind goes blank or whatever yeah that happens to me but i mean even what you're saying rob like the ding ding for me seeing the park drug dealer punching nathan

it i wrote like there's the overlap with dan because dan threatened the guy and then the guy was like you don't know who you're threatening and i could like ruin your family's life who is dan's family Nathan, like it could be a thing where you go, is it, Dan? Is Dan in on it? And it's just a throwaway moment. There's no suspense. There's no moment for the guy to say something to Nathan about like, yeah, last time I saw your father. There's nothing that would be so good to like say Izzy or isn't he for the audience. And I'm like sad about it a little bit. Well, let's talk about that, that you, the whole Dan of it all of the like, Is he in on it?

Is he not? Yeah. To be or not to be? That is the question. If Dan is to be involved or not. I don't think now that he is, now that I'm seeing him, like, behind computer screen, staring and running his finger along clues on walls, unless Robb, do you still think it's all a show? Not as much.

Rob's rolling his eyes. Because, you know, I want, it's so fun to run with a theory, you know, but as I was watching. I mean, listen, I did. I laughed to myself when Dan apparently knows an obscure Eastern European gang sign from the graffiti. Yeah. I just, that made me laugh because why wouldn't he, you know? Of course.

But no, I feel as the, like I said, I don't quite understand the, like the world of, like, if that drug dealer lives in Tree Hill, how does he, I mean, does he have a relationship with the guy who pays athletes out of a brief? case handcuffed to his arm. Like that part, I'm still kind of confused as to how they all, like, know each other. But, nah, I'm starting to think Dan's, Dan didn't do it maybe. But let me tell you what, though, interesting that Dan had an interaction with the fella who's involved with these people. I haven't given up on it, but I've, the temperatures definitely dropped in the theory jacuzzi.

I mean, he could be at fault in some way, maybe if he's not involved. Yeah, maybe he's so upset. with fixing it because he wonders if the guy from the park had something to do with it. I will say the device of watching him, like as an audience member, watching him work alone. So, you know, feverishly certainly makes it feel like we can trust him more. I also really do like the device that Jamie doesn't want to leave without the video. At first I didn't get it. I was like, bro, you're going to go home.

like why you'll get your video and then it's like oh of course he wants it because he's getting on the plane with his uncle um but i like the device of oh brook and julian have a key to our house he can go email it to me and julian realizing this could be a clue for dan that yeah there's it's just a cool that was a good a good piece of writing i thought that was a nice little device there yeah and also there's a lot of good in this episode i realize we've sort of jumped into like the nitpicking and things. But I thought all of the Austin, excuse me, the Julian and Brooke stuff was great. But I do have to say this. I have questions. For example, I've never met Lucas before. So did Lucas and Haley ever have a thing? Or were you all, we all just like

besties? Always just best friends, like brother and sister. We had a night. There was like a dare night when we kissed in a car off of a dare. And we both were. like, bleh, you know, like, and the last time that we saw Lucas, did he have this look? Was his hair long? No, no, short. Okay. So fans probably gasped. Yeah, everybody gasped.

Oh, everybody gasped for sure. I gasped. I didn't even know he was showing up in the airport. I was like, who were they looking for? I was there. I didn't even remember filming it. Do you want to know what's so crazy? The reason I knew is like one of the, one of the photos I see.

a lot, just, you know, in things were tagged in online. There's this really great set photography photo that day of you and Chad and Chantel. And she has that turquoise necklace on. And I was like, wait, I know that outfit. And then I was like, wait, I know that outfit from pictures of the three of you. And I was like, oh, he's coming. That's right. Also, I thought it was really funny when they did the shot of Chantel and I standing next to each other. And she's like an Amazon. I mean, she's legitimately like a two feet taller than me. It looks like because she must have been wearing heels. That was pretty great. Yeah, she has heels on under those flares. And I was wearing flats. And it's like, it's hilarious. It's actually very like Nathan and Haley

coded. Yeah. Which I wondered. I was like, oh, is there, is there some sort of like subliminal messaging here? That's funny. I don't think anybody was thinking that hard. I'm sure that the fans absolutely loved seeing Chad back. But I got to say that I, as a viewer, it felt like a really cruel tease because I was excited. Because again, I've never met this guy. I just know he's beloved and, you know,

he's such a big part of the story that I see him. I'm like, oh, great, let's do it. Yeah. And then it's just like these a couple short scenes and he's gone. Yeah. And it was like, oh, no. It's like I've had a taste. And now I want, I've tasted.

the forbidden fruit. And now I want me some Lucas. And just like that, he's gone. And just like that. Yeah. I know that was sad. It feels like a tease. And I think, I think part of what adds to the bummer of it is just, you know, especially in the last couple of years, what we've all been able to unpack, knowing that we were being told on set that both Chad and Hillary had been invited back and then learning from Hillary that she was actually never invited back, that that's just what our boss was telling us. It feels even meaner because it was such a letdown for so many fans. And it's also like, wouldn't it have been so freaking cool for Peyton and Lucas to come home during this? Yeah. To come stay, to be part of the

finale of the show that they also built? Like, it just doesn't feel. right. How does Nathan go missing? And they don't come back to help find him on what planet? How does Brooke Davis get married without Haley and Peyton? You know what I mean? Yes. It's ridiculous. The fact that a 50-year-old man was being like a baby and was like, I have grudges against girls that didn't, you know, like me. Like, it's, it's really a bummer. And I am glad at least. that, you know, Chad got to come back, but it's like, even the fact that he's like, as soon as Nathan's back, like, I'll bring the kids back. And then why didn't him and Peyton come back with the kids? You know, it just sucks for, it sucks for us. It sucks for the legacy of the show.

It's a bummer. It is, it actually felt really. Maybe that's part of what hit me about that scene in the airport where I was like upset with myself for not acting better. And I thought, But now, like, maybe that's part of it, that the fact that Lucas is back in town and it felt so removed, he felt so disconnected, like, as though he and Nathan had not become real brothers, really close, as though everything that had happened in the first four seasons was just, were they six or four? How long were they there? Six.

Six seasons. Six seasons. And then suddenly Lucas is just like, I'm so sorry that my brother is missing. Yeah. Like, that just sucks. What can I do to help you? I'll take the kids. Sure.

Like, you're on your own, but, like, good luck and I'll take the kids. I mean, what? And even the weird scripted dig from Haley saying, you don't call, you don't write. Yeah. Like, that's a choice for the actor playing his beloved character. Like, I don't know. It just. What is Lucas doing?

He's writing? Take a break, bro. Like, come help find your brother. I just don't get it. Hit save on your novel. Yeah. And come home. Oh, you're your own boss, but you can't get the time off.

Got it. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that's what it feels like. Yeah. It's really cool to hear your perspective, Rob, because I think sometimes we forget, like, what it feels like to someone who didn't get to interact with those characters. And even for you to be like, wait, this is anticlimactic for me having heard about this person for so long. It's, yeah, it helps me know that it isn't just our kind of.

behind-the-scenes stuff that can be a bummer that makes me feel that way. I'm like, no, it really is like an actual just on-screen bummer also. It was a missed opportunity for sure. And I think this last season took some or missed some opportunities to really soar because of our boss's issues. Because you're absolutely right. I mean, it makes all the sense in the world for those two to come back during this crisis. Yeah. And to be there just at the end, yeah, man.

So weird. But we did get to watch Dan Barbecue on a soundstage, which was fun. I also love Dan weirdly hitting on Julian in that scene being like, they're going to love you in prison. I'm like, what's going on here? What are we doing? Why is Dan Scott hitting on my husband? Like, it's funny. They have a funny dynamic together.

I really like it. I do. I like it too. Austin's like, I hate you, but all right. Yeah. Also, I feel like he kind of was like, you're so annoying, but my butt does look good in these pants, you know? And to be fair, Julian's probably also lonely as hell at his job. We've already seen him recreating the Goonies by himself, throwing a tennis ball against the wall.

So I'm sure even, you know, think of Dan Scott, what you will, that he's just like, sweet. There's an adult with a pulse. Let's go chat. Yeah. It's somebody who's not making fun of me because all the other men on the show have been written to make fun of Julian all the time. It feels like Dan actually respects him in some way. You know, I mean, they have an interesting, they have a funny banter, but it feels more like a sibling-friendly banter rather than people actually just putting down Julian all the time. But Dan choosing to go out, buy a barbecue, buy briquettes, buy raw meat, and then proceed to barbecue it indoors.

It just feels like a lot of extra work when he could have. have just got a couple of burgers, you know? Yeah, that is actually really funny, the backstory of that, that he's like, that he's sitting in this trailer, he's trying to solve the mystery of where his son has disappeared to. And he's like, you know what, I'm hungry. You know what? I'm going to go to Home Depot. Yeah.

I'm going to pick up a barbecue. I'm coming back. Uh-huh. Charcoal lighter. The grilling is going to help me. Maybe that's, that might be that's the backstory that he's like, the grilling is going to help me get my mental juices flowing. I'm going to solve this.

That's his meditation. We were talking about him going to Home Depot. I'm just saying that like the idea that he, he's feverishly working to find his son. And he's like, I could be back with a burger in 12 minutes. Or, or I could find a way to turn this into a five hour ordeal. You know? Yeah, I just thought that was odd.

No, the scene that I was going to talk about was Chris Keller and Chase. Oh, my God. Good. Tyler wins for the best on-camera wake-up I've ever seen in my life. It was great. He can do it all. So here's the behind the scenes that our viewers probably don't know. So the gal who is it comes out of the bathroom or comes out of the bed. Her name is Jess, and she's a friend of the show.

And then the other girl who appears at the end when you realize it's a four-way is actually her real-life sister Alexis who was in charge of extras casting what yeah what i did not know this yeah friend and they were like yeah totally yeah it tracks it tracks thank god it was Stephen and Tyler who are the sweetest boys in the world the dialogue in that whole scene was so painful for me one more pony ride you can't afford it and you weren't that good at it anyway. I was like, this is so rank. And then the immediate switch flip of Chris Keller, when he hears Chase is deploying, going, you got drafted. Can they do that? Oh, it's so good. Having no clue he's enlisted. No, like, it's just so, they are so funny together. It's brilliant.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. honestly friends if you have not watched this episode in a while just even for the sake of fast forwarding to the scene where tyler wakes up or we're going to where chase wakes up and then you'll find chris keller it's the best wake he's so believable he's so self-deprecating he's so unaware of himself on camera it's so realistic and hilarious i could not stop laughing and you will too go enjoy it it's perfect i'm glad that they made a moment out of the fact that she jessica the first girl chose to not put her clothes back on but just exit in a sexy bra and underwear which i don't understand i think it was just so they could have the line of chase going did she just leave in her

underwear and uh then chris goes she's a stripper i think or vice versa chris goes did she just leaving her underwear and chase goes she's a stripper i think they do that so it's a mildly funny line but it's like i don't think anyone does that it was it was odd also here's my question have we ever actually seen chase getting into the air force i know there's been talk of this but i didn't yeah there were some scenes where he was on well with chase and alex chase and alex yeah that's right. I was going to say Camp Lejeune, but that's Marines. I don't know where we saw him, but there was something at a base. Yeah, there was something, but I remember more specifically, just because it was such a sweet scene between the two of them, with Chase and Alex talking, and he was going to leave. And

she said, in a year, I'll meet you here. Right. At the airfield, where it was the very awkward meetup, where it's like, is he about to date line her? Yeah. Yeah, it's like a fair to remember, like, I'll meet you here in a year. We're still, you know, mlam, ma'n, yeah. Okay. I just wasn't sure if I had missed that or if it just fast forwarded in the background. It was just really funny in the context of all the other things happening in this episode. It was so random. But I was glad to see, I was glad to see Tyler do that.

I was glad to see Stephen and Chuck this storyline that continues to just tug at my heartstrings. I really love that they've continued this on. And kids aren't often given real storylines on TV shows. They're just in and out as accessories. And the fact that they really trusted Michael May with this material and it is wonderful. And it's an interaction that I didn't know I needed. Like I wanted to see how I love seeing how this young, hot single man running around in circles in his life. in many ways, is centered by an unlikely friendship with this sweet young boy who also is really

struggling in his own life. Yeah. Needing a father figure, needing somebody who just is consistent. I really, it's like the spin-off that I need. Do you know what I mean? Like, I love this show that I'm watching of the two of them. Totally. And there's something really refreshing, again, because so many characters in the show have such

exceptional lives. The fact that a boy whose home life is very unstable gets to be supported by one of our characters also allows one of our characters to go into an arena that's really important to talk about that isn't all about excellence. It's not a record label or a rock star or the NBA or fashion or, you know, an agency. It's like this is a kid in the neighborhood that he mentors and he is a really volatile home life. And those are often the things that don't get the spotlight. And I think there's something that I just, I so love about the storyline to your point.

And I was so touched by Stephen's performance in this episode. I thought the way he played it was beautiful because he wasn't trying to be macho. He wasn't trying to have all the answers. He was figuring it out. in real time and a little panicked and wanting it to not be true and also wanting to not leave this kid alone. And it was so human. And it was really special to watch them play off of each other like this. You know, it's something we don't see a lot on our show, maybe, well, on our

show, with men. It usually is like a woman who's providing this nurturing role. But I'm realizing, I was realizing as you were talking, he's stepping into the Uncle Keith role that we haven't seen in so long. Just stepping up and showing him what a good man looks like, even though he's got his own flaws and he's got his trying to figure out his own shit in his life. Like, he can still show up for this young, for this boy. It's just, man, there's something about it that's like, balm on my heart. Every time the two of them are together on camera, this makes me.

happy and hopeful yeah and it's really also very cool to his credit for michael may you know it's not easy to be a young kid and have a really heavy storyline and the way he delivered that line at the end of that you know scene about the bike when he finally reveals the bruise and he chase asks him if his mom knows that he got hurt and he says no you can't tell her she'll take my bike away. And the cover-up, it was so heartbreaking to me. And I was like, man, you know, not only are these two actors crushing this, but like our sweet friend Michael, this literal little boy is able to put so much subtext in a scene

like this. And I don't know, I think they did a beautiful job. And I'm really happy for them that they had Austin directing them in this. Yeah. Yeah, to have it in the family. The kids are learning. He's really, you could tell, because when he started the show, it was just, it was that sort of element of like, oh, you're a kid, you're an accessory to the storyline.

Like, this just cuteness. And then he actually started really learning how to act. And they gave him an opportunity to. I mean, that's beautiful. It's so cool. I was happy about that. So Xavier is a bad guy. Yes.

So I do, I haven't seen it, but I do remember, I think maybe. a flashback. So he is the one who breaks into close over bros and assaults brook. And he also is the same guy who shoots Q? Yeah. Is there, man, there's there a shortage? Remember those? We said there's a shortage of bartenders in Tree Hill because we always see Chase doing it. Is there a shortage of criminals as well? I guess so. Well, I don't know. With the whole organized crime syndicate and a murderer on the loose, it seems like we have a lot. How was there no conviction for him over Quentin? murder. I didn't realize that. I think I didn't either assumed that that was all wrapped up. But you're telling me a gas station didn't have cameras. CCTV. A liquor store

slash gas. It's not a gas. It's not a gas. A convenience store that sells liquor doesn't have a camera. Well, also, Quentin was shot. Bullistics for bullets. They match a gun. I don't know what we missed in terms of not getting a conviction on that crime. But it also for me... It was useful for the storyline, though. Yeah. Useful for the storyline. It made me wonder, I mean, listen, this is the story, right?

Like, she's got to go to the parole hearing, so this is the story. But I'm thinking about it and thinking if someone were in jail and I knew they'd murdered a person I knew and not been convicted of it, that wouldn't make me more likely to go see them. You know what I mean? Like if they weren't going to be held up against the full weight of the law, I don't know. How did you feel about this storyline when it came in? I mean, this is kind of out of the blue, I think. It feels really out of the blue. I think what's really surreal is in more recent years, I've been through something like this with a friend of mine. Oh. And so it's really surreal to watch it. You know, at the time, you read articles, you study up on what you can to

try to understand systems, you know. And now having sat with someone who's gone through this, I'm just like, man, it is, it is so heavy. And, yeah, the victim, either testimony or letter at a parole hearing is so important. I think what I appreciated about it, even though like I was saying earlier about some of the stuff, I think some of that writing in the episode is so great. And I love the shift from being on the other side of the glass and telling him the story of the kids to it seamlessly going into the parole hearing testimony. Like, that's a 10 out of 10 for me.

Yeah, I loved that. I thought the writing in the earlier scene with Julian felt a little heavy-handed. Like, I want to believe in my heart. I have the capacity for forgiveness or, you know, whatever it is. but I like that. I like I like when a character gets to say I want to believe I could be this good

but I'm also human and I liked watching this married couple have that conversation you know talk about what our highest ideals are versus when we're really in a rock and a hard place. How do they get applied? Can they be applied? Do they even matter if they're not applied

in the rock and the hard place spot yes exactly and i like that they kind of went around in circles i liked that it wasn't so squeaky clean and everyone just knew to do the right thing right away or whatever um it felt really human to me their whole their whole journey but oof i don't know man it's like a repeat offender like that it's scary and and he's such a good act He's so good at being scary. So subtle. He was so he knew the camera. That's one thing I love when an actor understands where the camera is.

Pete Koalski, our DP, was always so great at telling us. He'd be like, we're in a cowboy shot, which is like at your hips or we're like right up close on your face so that you knew how much to react based on where the camera was. And he was one of those actors that really understood like where the camera is and how much or how little to give. And I was so, I really was impressed by that. I loved what we got from him when you asked him. What about what's in? Oh, so good. Uh-huh.

That flash of rage. Yes. And then, but also like the genuine, like, I'm supposed to say I'm sorry. There was almost like this like, there was almost like a bewilderment even that flashed through his eyes. Like, but I wasn't convicted of that. why would I have to apologize for, you know, like a real true psychopath. I can't comprehend the idea that, that, well, but that that, that's not, that's not on my list of

things I need to perform in order to get what I want. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ooh, so uncomfortable. Creepy. Going back to the scene with Julian and Brooke at their house, my favorite part of it was the very, very end when Brooke just says to him, you and me. Yeah.

That's just, it's so true and it's so sweet that it's like, no matter what's going on, it's like, we're the team. We're not, we're not each other's enemy. I just, I loved, I love to see that kind of teamwork and partnership. Oh, we needed that. After everything with him in the last few episodes, we needed that. And letting him show up for her in that way and also mirror who she is back to her. Because when you're questioning yourself, your capabilities for, either forgiveness or bravery or any of the things required for this scenario for him to say you're capable of anything. I love you because of how strong you are. I love you because of how brave you are. I'm proud of you. Like, I'm right there with you even when you're scared. It was great, it was just great partnership stuff for them. And I really, I really enjoyed it. And I liked that the device, despite for some character, it feeling like a little bit of a letdown, i.e. you guys at the airport, I actually liked that

this quiet time at home or quiet time in the car, it was nice just to see the two of them talking through things together. It felt really grounded and true. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Rob. That's a great point. I kind of sidestepped it. I didn't really like notice it because I think because it's the place that I feel most comfortable with Brooke and Julian that they're just, that's where they belong. So I just settled into it. I'm glad you noticed that. And now that we're discussing it, I also wonder though, because we're saying how another way of saying sort of our opening thing about how I was saying that it feels drawn out. I mean, another way you could look at that is it's just we are allowed to sit with things. And maybe that's just maybe that was an actual

choice because we do have episodes that are just wall to wall whiplash. This happens. This happens. mouth almost eats a pizza oh no you know and maybe maybe it was intentional maybe they did know it was coming down the coming down the pike and they and they wanted to just give us sort of a slower one to kind of as the change up pitch but here's the real burning question I have do you think when you become a member of the bad guys club you take an oath that you will only ever eat an apple with a sharp knife Why is that a trope? I have never seen a bad guy just take a bite like a human.

They always have to do it with a knife in a real menacing way. Yeah, there's something about it. And why is it always an apple? Is that a reference to Snow White or something? It's like we just saw you shoot your coworker an episode ago. I don't need you to eat an apple like an irresponsible bad boy to be intimidated. Yeah, it could be a beach. Yeah.

What? It's just odd. Every time I see it, I'm like, oh, my, it's such a hat on a hat. Like, he just shot a guy. Also, if you want him to have a knife, why not have him, like, cutting into a steak? Salary. You know? Yeah.

It's like, why is it a piece of fruit? Yeah. It's weird that his two flexes were hydration and cutting an apple before eating it. Mm-hmm. Hey, man. Teach their own. That's so good. Hey, maybe, you know what?

Maybe when he's not bad guying, he's. He's a great PTA dad. What do we know? Yeah, he's got to be. That apple came from his preschool classroom, his kids' preschool classroom. He just took it with him. I missed Mouth and Millie in this episode. Me too.

It's weird when your people are, you feel the absence. Yeah. But the next episode, I know what's coming. I'm actually excited for what's next. Wait, you do? I don't. I don't think anything. You know, here's my secret, my secret wish is that they purposely didn't put

them in this episode so that next episode mouth shows up in none of the prosthetics and they just offhandedly go like that was some hike wasn't it he's like it did the trick and then we never talk about it again lord hear our prayer please it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is nicole garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con, or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. wants to know what's the last thing you've read or watched that made you laugh last thing i i laughed

like belly laughed out loud uh was i was watching an episode of ruPaul's drag race oh what happened it was just the like these guys are so funny and they are all it's also like culture i'm i'm pretty unfamiliar with so i'm constantly hearing new words and new like turns of phrase and sometimes it just hits my funny bone in the perfect way And kills me. I love that. That's great. I love that.

What about you two? I was just watching an episode of the Giggly Squad, Hannah Burner's podcast. And I don't even remember what they were talking about now that I want to tell you, my mind is drawing a blank. But I was cackling. Like, they really, really got me just the other day. I'll have to go back and see if I can find you a clip. Mine, I think mine's kind of lame. I watch a lot of Frasier right now because I'm doing a lot of writing and I kind of work all day long.

I've got, so I don't watch shows for new things. I just want comfort. Yeah. So I've just been in a Frazier zone. So that's the last thing that made me laugh. There was an episode where Niles is really upset about something. I can't remember. I think his marriage is over and he goes into the bathroom.

And meanwhile, Martin, his older, his dad's been like, we're trying to revive this, this, QVC purchase that he had, which is called the hot and foamy, and it's like a shot makes your shaving cream hot. And so Niles goes into the bathroom where the hot and foamy is and he slams the door and he's like super distraught. And all of a sudden you hear this bang. And everyone's like, oh my God, Niles, are you? Niles, Niles. Then he walks out and he's completely covered in shaving cream. And I just laughed harder than I laughed so long. It's like pure three stooges comedy, but I don't know. It got me. Okay, hear me out. It's a podcast, but it's just joy. retelling episodes of Frasier.

And Frasier. The hot and foamy. Yeah. Oh, my God. Let's spin a wheel. And why that wheel spins, I will say you answering Frazier is perfect because before we started recording and you stepped into your Zoom square, I was like, you look, you're dressed like a hipster who should be lawn bowling in Brooklyn.

And then the fact that you're like go-to comedy was Frasier, Cheskiss. Most likely to steal a friend. baby name. Oh, no. Horrendous. I mean, Rachel. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I don't think anyone in real life would do that. Who would do that in real life? That's terrible. No. No. I would hope not. That's dark.

And we certainly wouldn't be outing them in this fashion. No. And their Instagram handle is, no, it's, I would say, yeah, my first thought was Dan just because he has a propensity to be a dick, but yeah, I'd say Rachel makes more sense. Yeah. I can't think of anyone else. Who else? Nanny Carey's psychotic.

I guess she would do it. I mean, she tried to literally steal your baby. So yes, she'd probably try to steal a baby name. Yeah. And Katie, by the way. Katie, oh my God. If Clay and Quinn, as soon as she gets worried about Logan, she is 100% procuring a child

and changing his or her name to Logan. Oof. God, that's so crazy. Wait, is she still alive? I thought she died. No. She got wheeled out very much alive. Remember? And then Quinn whispered in her ear, she's like, I am the storm.

I'm your storm. Yeah. Yeah. But then we never, we just never hear from her again. No. I mean, I think the idea is that she's in jail forever, but also like if Xavier got out after committing a literal murder, what what is reality? Yes, that was crazy too at Karen's cafe that Xavier was out. I wouldn't even talk about that. All right. Well, here we go. The next episode is season nine, episode eight, a rush of blood to the head. And I think it's going to be. This one's going to be quite a ride. We're going back to whiplash. I think so. I don't know if it's going to be whiplash, but we'll be on a roller coaster. Six episodes left of one tree. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my gosh, we're halfway. Oh, I don't like it. I'm getting the impending feeling

like from the actual end of season nine where it's like, oh, we're all going to, how cool, we're going to wrap this thing. And then I'm just going to. sob for weeks. We just get on Zooms to cry. Yeah. Friends, don't forget, though, if you want to see us live, there is a way to do that because we're doing our finale episode live from the convention in Wilmington, at Trick. You've got to be a part of it.

If you're not going to be there in person, please, please go get your tickets at veeps.com, VEPS.com and join us for the final episode. For the laughs and the tears. See you next week, gang. All right, y'all. See you later. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.

You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Cheering for the right team. You can dream a smart, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.