Drama Queens - The Crown Jules with Maria Menounos • EP206

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Maria Menounos — OTH’s Jules — joins the Drama Queens.Before she became a television host and then got the part on One Tree Hill, Maria grew up working hard and working late; cleaning nightclubs with her family. Acting was a dream! Getting this part took “break a leg” to a whole different level … find out why Maria will keep you on your toes! Hilarie, Sophia and Joy discuss how Maria was a role model to them all, and earned the respect of everyone on set. Sophia also reveals how Maria inspired her to never settle.This episode is also the first appearance of Tyler Hilton — Chris Keller!! — and the Drama Queens need to discuss everything!Plus, a question we never thought we’d ask… are we actually rooting for Dan and Deb? Or are they a lost cause? Let’s debate. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion with your tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens, drama, Queens. Hello, hello, hello. You were back.

We might as well be strangers, girls. Did you miss this that bad? We're not strangers. J.K., that's the name of the episode. This aired October 26, 2004. After Dare Night resulted in new arrangements. New arrangements. I don't know what.

New couplings? New couplings. There we go. Oh, okay. A midnight media. Your Shower finds Lucas sharing a romantic night with Anna, who is inexplicably afraid of her brother's approval or disapproval. We'll get into that one.

And Andy surprises Karen with a dinner date, and Keith cooks for Jules on their first date. Brooke finds herself forming a mutually beneficial relationship with Felix, and Peyton sets out to find an opening act for her club. And we name Trick. This was directed by Samford Bookstaver, who was. We all raved about. We never got him back, ever. Why didn't he ever come back? He was great.

Because he was on fire. Like, we were so lucky to have him. And I think you all mentioned in this episode, his camera shots are beautiful. Oh, he used that techno crane so beautifully, those big, widening shots that would get tall and leave people in these little zones. I mean, he was so talented and so young. And yeah, you're right. his career just took off that's a good point sophia this episode was full of a it felt like a bird's eye view it was lots of little vignettes and he did use that crane shot a lot which

gave me the feeling that i was constantly seeing things from a just from a bigger perspective especially that last shot where it's like we're in all the drama we're in the scenes we're in all the emotions but it's that last shot of the episode was a reminder that it's just small town america at the end of the day, you know, just a mom and her son sitting on the porch going through the mail. The long lens. And he did something. Yeah. He did those beautiful long lens shots, you know, of all of us in the classroom where you'd see through people in the foreground to the characters.

And then I got the sense, too, he wove a metaphor so well. We had a lot of metaphors on our show, right? But this episode, this is the big meteor shower. Also, the only time we ever saw that fabulous science teacher, why we didn't have him back all the time. Yeah, I'll never understand. It was so charming. It was great. But, you know, he was explaining a meteor shower.

Also, he made a comet reference, which I'm sure the hardcore fans noticed. Yeah. And all of Sandy's shots would start on two people and then wide and out. Or someone, you know, Hathen. Hathen? Nathan? We just started a new one. My brain just scrambled Naley and a knocky in a knock.

cute way. So Nathan and Haley on their porch and then it would pull back. Brooke coming out and sitting alone and you saw this little girl in front of this big house and then you panned over to Felix alone. You know Karen and Lucas on the porch all of these shots that would pull out

and in a way you pulled away from them just like in the science class we started on these stars and then pulled back and realized how far apart they were. It was really metaphorical filmmaking and I thought it was That just blew my mind.

We see how far apart they are. He elevated it. You know, as much as I felt like the on the paper material of this episode was kind of boring, like I don't know that we did a lot of moving forward. Joy did say that in the episode. She's like, this one's boring. I'm sorry, you can always count on me to speak my mind. I just, I thought it was kind of boring.

But what he did, but what he did as a director, in taking this material and taking this sort of, I don't know, catching the audience up on stuff and just slowly moving different storylines forward. This was kind of an interim episode of just filler, space filler. But he did a lot of really cool stuff with it and made it feel bigger and better than probably what he was given on the page. So that was, I mean, that's a director's job, right? Like to make it even bigger and better. So well done.

It's so funny that you say that because I was just saying, I was talking to my friend Jenny, and she was like, God, season two. I was telling her what episode we were on. She was like, it was such a good season. And we were laughing. And I was saying that one of the things I miss, looking at TV now, I miss when we could just go slow in episodes. Because there were so many of them. Yeah, not every scene had to be some major event.

You could really let people move through things and discover things. And so it's funny. You're like, God, it's boring. And I'm like, oh, thank you. not someone is slowing down. No, I like when things slow down. It's just that I don't think that I don't, in this particular episode, I don't think the writing was good enough to be slow and really draw you in.

Like, in order to slow down, there has to be subtlety. There has to be, um, oh, nuance you mean? Nuisance. That's what I'm saying. My favorite part of the rewatch is you two doing the predictive dialogue, like anticipating what Lucas is going to say. It's my favorite. You're both like, wait, wait, wait, there it is. He's going to say this.

Yep. I love it. It's like, we do, guys. When we watch this show, it's like Madlibs. We're just going to be all the time. And I will say, I was very proud of myself. I nailed a Nathan line today, too. I knew it was coming.

Yeah. It was sweet. Give it to us. It was sweet. He said, my future is with Haley. Yeah, of course he did. I knew that was coming. Heidi, come.

Of course he did. He's sweet little bunny. Delicious. Delicious. So, so let's rewind to the beginning, beginning. where we see hot Dan and hot Deb. This is like, come on up. Empty Nestor syndrome, perhaps, at, like, very young age.

Like, imagine empty nestor syndrome in your 30s. That would be crazy. Yeah, it's weird, huh? Yeah. I mean, I guess I have friends that had kids either, like, senior year in high school or right out of high school, and they're in it. And they are always, like, on boats. and like doing fun show. And we're still in our 30s.

And I'm like, oh, you know, they figured this out. And I'm still changing pull-ups. It's going to be a minute. I'll be in menopause by the time I hit empty nest. And I'm okay with it. But I can see where hot Dan and Hot Deb really make the hard sell for just like getting it out of the way early. They sure do. I mean, Dan on that treadmill.

I let Paul, any excuse for Paul to get his. at the gym. He always takes it. So I love that he was like, Dan's getting better. Here I go. You got a haircut. All the things. You got a haircut. Yeah. Tann muscles at all. And Barbara looked like just so young and fresh and cute.

And I loved watching them in this episode. Are either of you guys rooting for Dan and Deb at this point? No. Well, I don't know. Sort of. It's really hard because it's like what

change a person, if not in your death experience. Sure. And you can see him trying. He wants to do something romantic for her. He's saying he's got the second chance. He didn't ever think he was going to get.

But every time he does something sweet, whether it's with her or with Nathan, right? When you're like, oh, wow, is he changing? Then he says something gross. And you're like, I don't know. No. And it can't help himself. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah, but he's so good-looking.

Are you rooting for him? No. So, like, I like watching them together, and I think their chemistry is so strong even when it's combative. And so as, like, a voyeuristic viewer who is not invested in anyone's emotional well-being, I'm like, yeah, fucking, like, go to the beach house. Kiss. That sounds great.

Ooh, the overnight tag is great. But like as a woman who cares about feelings and toxic relationships, I'm like, Deb, babe, you have been a martyr. Call Keith. See what Keith is doing. Keith's busy. Keith's on a date. Oh, we know what Keith is doing. He is on a date.

Keith is on a date with hot jewels. Also, can we just talk about one of my favorite hilarious devices of television is because, you know, you can't give out a phone number because people will call it and ruin someone's life. You can't give out an address. because people will go there and terrify whoever really lives somewhere. So when Keith, you know, in the last episode, looks at Jules' phone number, it's a 5-55, because that's always what you have to do on TV. Right. And then in this episode, he calls her, they have a very cute scene where she says,

oh, you know, he waited a week to call me. And then he came up with this lame survey thing. It was, like, so flirty and cute. And then he asks her on a date and goes, how about I cook you dinner tomorrow? She goes, great. And then he just slams that little flip phone shut. So you didn't set a time and you don't know where the woman lives. What are you going to do?

Find her like a homing pigeon? No. White pages. Remember when we had white pages? Like, you know, an actual book in a drawer where we would look up people's a drawer. Crazy. Dinosaurs. Maybe she put it all in the paperwork when she first came in to test drive the car.

I don't know. Maybe they're going to text in T9 on those. foot felt. Yeah. Hey, friends, when we texted back then, you would literally have to hit like each button three times to get it to the right letter you wanted. Yeah, select the letter. It took so long. There was no full keyboard. It's like this texting thing is never going to last. This is, people are never going to have the patience for this. Well, we also had Tyler Hilton in this episode, the introduction of our fabulous love, Tyler, who I'm so glad stood the test of time with our show and just stuck around forever and ever because he brings.

so much life and fun and he's so smart and so free on camera and improvisational. And it's just like energy. As soon as he's on screen, you just feel the energy. So that was super fun. I loved seeing him. Well, and that introduction's great too, because Gravity Records in downtown Wilmington was a hangout for all of us. I literally, Gus wanted our record player. And so he's got the record player up here. And I pulled out a crate of records. And they're all like records that I bought in Gravity Records. There's like the Outcast album. There's some, oh, there's some, like, really depressing emo in there.

You know, like, cat power is in there. Love her forever. Some Jenny Lewis. Jenny Lewis. That was such a great hangout. And so it felt cool to be able to come in there and shoot. And Tyler was a child when we met him. He was a baby.

he was he was only a little bit older than james right wasn't he like no i think he was younger i think he might have been even younger yeah he had i don't know he's like just graduated high school or something he was a kid really tyler came in with major kid brother energy which was so fun and he was so spunky and he really committed and we were saying when we were watching the episode how much fun it was to watch the two of you spar and how funny it is you know that they put patent in an emo shirt. But Tyler, by the way, star predictive energy, you know, who knew what we didn't even know about ourselves and our eventual advocacy then was just casually standing there in a vote or die t-shirt. And I was like, hell yes. It made me so happy. Chris Keller

did something really right in that first episode and it was encouraging civic engagement. It always helps when that kid brother energy comes in and it's also very pretty because he had just come off a plane Elvis and walk the line. And so we were just like, you're fun to look at. You're fun to talk to. Like, this is the total package. And now he's like a dream dad. He's like a girl dad. So he brings that same like fun, cute boy energy to parenting. And what a delight. We'll get Tyler on super soon. Yeah. Yes, we will. We got such good guests in season two. We did. We totally did. And let's talk about it. Danielle a little bit more too because why why was she so concerned with Felix like every conversation

she had is obsessing over her brother and it's her whole arc yeah her whole arc is I I don't want my brother to find out I like a boy but weirdly Lucas goes along with it and I just can't figure out why the writers wrote this stuff for him because it's not like Lucas and Felix were friends this is what I'm saying there's no nuance day it doesn't make any sense. Guys, I have three brothers. Three brothers. I have never consulted any of them on who to kiss, ever in the whole life.

And we were also very close in age. So, you know, gross. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to be comfortable. I'm a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The thing that was so weird to me is it felt like, I mean, guys, we were laughing watching these scenes going like, well, what's up? Is Felix like? Are we in the 1650s? Is Felix responsible for this woman's dowry? Does we have to give him goats?

Like, what is this weird? I can't be around you if your brother doesn't know I'm courting. Like what? But also like, you know what? Fair enough. If you want to explore some sort of cultural tradition, let's explore it. But why are we just like, it's just so arbitrary. And he's such a douche anyway, Felix, that why is she?

know, I just, I can't. I don't understand it. No, the only person like doing, like, proper dating are Karen and sweet Andy and Keith and our fabulous guest today. Ladies, shall we bring her in? Let's bring her in. Jules, there you are. Oh my gosh. Hi. Okay, wait, let's do it. I'm going to give you, you need a proper intro. Guys, our, our guest right now is an American energy. entertainment reporter, a television personality, professional wrestler, actress, author, businesswoman. She's a journalist that's conducted the only interview with the entire Obama family. She's interviewed every sitting president since Bill Clinton one-on-one. She is a legend in her own right and has been through so many amazing things in life and has held a torch for so many, leading so many people in incredible avenues of philanthropy and just learning and growth, personal growth.

She's got her own podcast right now. So we are so, so, so happy to introduce Maria Manudos. Hi, ladies. What's up? Hi. Oh, my God. It's so nice to hear your voice, not just on TV, but like directed at us. It feels so good.

I'm so excited to be with you today. I'm so excited to catch up. I mean, my God, it's been so long. So long. Yeah, it's been way long. Yeah, but you haven't aged a day. Yeah, you've gotten younger, which seems like, neither have any of you.

I'm like just dealing with COVID right now, by the way. So this is my COVID. I try to get my shit together for you guys. Babe, how are you feeling? Are you okay? I'm actually good. Thank God. The first day was pretty shitty.

Yeah. And I had a fever. But then after that, it was pretty good. I mean, it wasn't that bad. Well, you work like 20 jobs. So I hope it's an opportunity for you to just like chill out for a minute. I think you've earned that. Did you guys both meet Maria for the first time on One Tree Hill?

Was that your all's first meeting? Because we met at MTV. I don't know if you remember this. But we met, I remember meeting you in the hallway and being like, oh, my God, she's so pretty. Like that green room hallway right outside the control room. Uh-huh. Were you? Did you work in MTV?

Did you host? Um, I was doing a show at that time called E.T. on MTV. Right. That's what it was. But we weren't filming it there. So I might have just been there, like, making an appearance or something on some show. Cool. Yeah. Oh, gosh. And that's what I remember. Gosh, Maria, I weirdly, did you and I meet? Well, I knew you because of your dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, guys, I have absolutely no memory bank. My husband and my first assistant who was with me for you. years. They're my USB drive. So I usually have to ask them for everything. What did I do? Forgive me if I don't remember anything in life. But I do remember your dad took my first headshots here in L.A. Because I was working at a place called Channel 1. Yeah. And Charles Bush, I'll never forget.

And I knew you because of your dad. And then you met somehow before the show. I don't remember how I think it was an E.T thing. I remember how crazy it was, you know, my, yeah, my dad was a photographer. I had to, like, work for him during the summer, and I was a petulant teenager who didn't pay attention to anything because I was like, mad, it wasn't at the Glendale Galleria with all my friends. And then suddenly we're all doing this TV show, and I have no idea what's going on. And it was one of those, I don't know what it was.

Some press thing we did, like, at the end of season one, and I remember seeing you and being like, I wonder if she remembers me because I know her and this feels safe. Everything is overwhelming here. And you were just like, oh my God, your show. It was so, so sweet and lovely. Maria, how did you get started? How did I get started? Well, as you all know, it's like a series of baby steps, right?

It's like little thing after little thing. It's saying yes to the right things and then you get there. But kind of like the big moment that led to the big moment was my now husband. was working at MTV at the time, came back to Boston to make a movie. I was so unconnected, guys. My parents were janitors. Like, this was not that kind of story. But my cousin went to high school with him randomly.

And he said, hey, that buddy I've been telling you about he was coming back to make a movie. You should work on it. And he had been telling you since I was 13 that he had this buddy in L.A. And I was like, whatever. Bullshit. And he's like, he's coming back to. make a movie and i was working um at lord and taylor and cobbly square doing makeovers for chanelle oh my god i did make up and i basically quit my job started working on the movie and then a producer

named mark finney who was working on our movie went back to l a after we wrapped and was p aing at a place called channel one news so he called one day because they were looking for new tv anchors and he knew i was studying journalism at emerson so he said you should put in a tape So Kevin and I got the only two videos I had of myself because I was like not that person that was like so psycho focused on like, I got to put my reel together. I got to do all this. I was just kind of like going with the flow. And we put a reel together.

I ended up getting the job moving to L.A. And then from there I went to entertainment tonight across the street. And so that was it. From there, it was like history. And then I was with you guys. Yeah. How did you end up on one tree hill? What did you?

Was it a random audition? or did you know somebody? Like, how did it come out? So, I remember my attorney, Kevin Yorn, reped Mark Schwann at the time. And I had told my attorney that I wanted to do some acting. And so he spoke with him. And then there was some audition.

And I broke my toe just before the audition. Oh, no. And then Mark at the time was like, that's so Jules. And so he was like, this is so. so I did the part, but it was only supposed to be like an episode or two, I think. And then it just kept growing from there. Because you're good. My recollection is, thank you. Thank you. I did watch back and I wasn't embarrassed. No, you're so cute. You're like the perfect guys, girl.

Totally. And Joy said it. There's that scene in this episode because, you know, we meet you in the last one. And then in this one, we were talking about how cute you were kind of ribbing Craig about how he called you with this total BS, like, survey excuse. But Joy said it. When you're sitting in that cute purple t-shirt on the phone, you're throwing out such strong, charming, like, Alicia Silverstone vibes. It's so, it's like such an iconic energy of an era,

and you tapped into it so beautifully. And I feel like that's why week after week, everyone was like, how do we keep her here? What do we do? Yeah. You know, how do we have more jewels? No way. I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I don't know how it all happened or worked out because I was in a storm working crazy, crazy. I mean, it was like 48 out of 52 weekends, seven days straight a week. And then I was flying to Wilmington to do this. And every time I got to go to Wilmington, I could take a breath and I can breathe and I felt like I was in safe, good hands. Like I just felt so good that I remember when we wrapped, I was bawling. I'm like, I don't. want to go back anywhere I wish we could have kept you where do we think jules is today what do we

think jules is doing i think she probably stayed with um keith because i felt bad in the end right like i had a deep dive and remember what was going on because i'm watching it i'm like didn't i pull a fast one here i don't remember and then i saw it i was like oh okay so obviously evil ban put me up to all this But now I really like him. So I would like to think, because a lot of people hate me for breaking Keith's heart, I hate me for breaking Keith's heart, I would like to think that we made it work somehow, that we like got back together again and lived happily ever after, had little Craig's. I don't want to ruin it for you. He's dead. I know.

It's so sad. It's so sad. Maybe she just got like a huge Keith tattoo and she's just like. Did he die? A tribute to Keith. Like season five? Season three. Was it season three?

He died right after? Yeah. It was season three because I had the short haircut. That's how I know. What? And it was, it was the big school shooting episode. Oh, I thought I had time to get back together with him. I guess not.

No, babe. It was like, it was a strong one-two punch. They were like, we're going to break his heart and then break his body. Yeah. Yeah. He's so good, though. He was really so lovely and so, so helpful and kind with me. I really appreciated him.

Had you acted growing up? Had you done theater and stuff? No. No. I used to clean nightclubs praying someday that I would get to, like, perform. So we would go, I would go up on stage and, like, the B-52s would leave their, like, their gear. Like, there are drums and their guitars, and I would just go up there and pretend I was performing. and like my parents wouldn't pay attention to me

because they were, of course, cleaning. We were trying to get the freak out of there. But no, I never danced. I never did acting classes. I never did any of that. And then in college, I started kind of dipping my toe and acting in some student films and things like that. Was it a hard transition going from being a reporter into acting?

Was that, how was that for you? Did it feel like a stretch? Did it feel like a new adventure? Well, it's funny because, back, then people weren't multi hyphenates right exactly no everybody was a very particular box yeah and they were really really against it like everybody was like she can't act she's a reporter that's right box and i have to give my husband credit because he was the one he was like why not why can't you do everything he was there yeah oh yeah he was there with you wasn't he he did he came down at some point um i remember we had

to ship one of my dogs to my parents. They had a babysit. I will never forget. They go, Maria, don't tell anybody do we babysitting the dogs. They're going to think we're crazy. But yeah, he pushed me. And I just, you know, I wanted to do so many different things.

I was so curious. And I always had that kind of mindset of, like, we only live once. Why would we just stick to one thing? Why wouldn't we explore and try things? And so I loved it. I had so much fun. In fact, throughout the years after, you know, because I did some other acting,

I did, you know, Fantastic Four, and I did this other movie called Kicking at Old School with Jamie Kennedy and Tropa Thunder and stuff, what I realized about myself is I was always happiest on a movie set or a TV set, not necessarily because I really wanted to be an actor per se, but because I really liked focusing on one. one thing. And it's funny how different things in your life will teach you things about yourself. Like, I was so overstretched in doing so many things at some point that I was like, well, when, when am I happiest? I'm like, oh, it's when I'm on a set? Because I'm so not good at it that I have to focus really hard at it. Oh, stop. Yes, you are. Or not like, or maybe I shouldn't be

like negative. But the point is it wasn't my strong suit. My strong suit is hosting, right? That was like my thing, um, I had never been trained. So I had to really give it everything I had. And I loved that energy of being able to focus on one thing. So there are so many times in my life as I continue to be a multi hyphenet and do way too many things. Yeah. Where I'm like, oh, how do I gravitate back to that? Just one thing. Well, so okay, if you could pick like your perfect movie or perfect TV show to do what would you like what's your dream gig? Currently. Sure. Um, you know, it's, it's such a tough landscape. I feel like the world has changed so much, not just because of the pandemic, but I'm sure. I mean, gosh, I have to have you ladies on my show at some point so we can talk about this because I don't want to take up your show, make my idea. Give it. Give it. The acting world has changed so much. And I can't wait to hear from you guys on it because it's so splintered. The whole business is splintered. Hosting acting. Everything is splintered. It's like you get your little feet.

And you stay with your fiefdom and then that's it. I have to say I've been doing a little bit more acting randomly. I did a holiday movie. I think, Bethany, I saw you in one recently, right? Yes, yes, I was. Yeah, I saw you. I was like, oh, my God, she looks so beautiful. She's still the exact same.

Oh, my God. Oh, thank you. And I loved it. Oh, no, you did it with, um, Jana. Yeah. Yes, I saw Jana posting like beautiful. beautiful pictures on a wharf or something with you. And I'm like, oh, that seems really fun.

I know. We had such a good time and it's so funny because, you know, we're all just here right now. But, yeah, and then I have another Netflix series coming out, I think in April with a very famous comedian where I get to be some fun. So we'll see. But my scene now is just my podcast. I really am trying to build that kind of like health,

wellness, life improvement space for people to come. where they don't have to fight about politics and they don't have to think about all the dreary, horrible things. It's like, how do we roll with the punches? How do we live better lives? How do we live happier and healthier? And take everything that I've gone through in the last few years and teach people what I've learned.

Being your own boss as a woman is the most empowering thing. And, you know, we all kind of came up in the business at the same time, where we were at the mercy of a lot of dudes. And so to see so many women take the reins is exciting. Yeah, the fact that you came up during a time when everything was so segregated, you couldn't sort of be outside of your box. And the fact that you did break the mold in so many ways is a huge testament to not only your gifts and abilities, but who you are as a person that you just could see through the barriers,

these sort of arbitrary barriers that had been put up and decided to just do your own thing. I mean, it's just so badass, Maria. It is. And I think it's, I think it's so inspiring too because to the point of what we're talking about, you know, for folks listening at home, it might seem weird to think about now. But when our show launched, you know, Maria, when you were beginning your hosting career, you were really told that you could only do one thing. So if you were a TV host, you were a TV host. If you did television, you could not do movies. If you did movies, you wouldn't dare to go on a TV show. If, you know, journalists. journalists or journalists. Everything was so specific. Even the idea that singers might act was a shock to anyone. And now we think it's so funny because if you're creative, you're creative. If you're a storyteller, whether you write music or articles or film and TV, whatever. It's all of this is a creative medium. And so it's almost crazy now to consider that we all make film, television, movies we work in journalism and political spaces we you know some people on this show make music and

you know not just albums but write musicals i mean like joy you do 87 things in music alone and it's like isn't it wild that there was an era especially when we were all being sort of born as artists where other people were telling us what we could and could not do it's it is crazy now because with the advent of new tech like anyone can do anything even from home it's surreal and you really did set examples for a lot of people us included Maria I want to dig into your personal life

were you able to watch this episode I did yeah I watched it last night so right before we brought you in my husband I was like so excited I'm like I'm not an embarrassment so many years later you're like oh I definitely there's no way I didn't suck I was like the first time No, you're so good. You're so cute.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Well, we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacist. Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up.

You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it? didn't make. Yes, that's right.

Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So we're lamenting Daniel Alonzo's character, caring so much about her brother's opinion about who she's dating. But you're telling us that, like, your cousin set you up with your husband. Did they, did he mean to set you up? Or was there supposed to be a business thing that escalated? It was like a career set up. But when I met Kevin, I was like, oh, he's the one.

He doesn't know it yet. So I'm just going to have to force him to fall in love with me. Oh, good. I love it. Good. I'm glad that came on. He didn't know? No, I was like a chubby 19 year old.

No, we're not. I was a guy coming in from, I was 40 pounds every year than I am now. Of course I was. Yeah, it was so cute. Yeah, I mean, listen, I was tall, so I wore it pretty well. But I was just this kid. And he was like this. you know,

filmmaker guy from Hollywood or whatever. And so, yeah, he had no idea. But I was like, I know it's you. How long have you guys been together at this point? 24 years in April. That's amazing. Wow.

That's incredible. Especially in our industry. You know what I mean? Like, and you're, I mean, you work so, so much. I love how grounded you are with your family. And with your relationships and the fact that you can just like pick up with people like the last time you saw them was yesterday and it's been what 15 years how many years is it it's i also remember being so struck then and i and i still am so impressed by it and

love to kind of witness it as a person who adores you as we all do i remember being young and you know having this sort of first experience and definitely realizing that there's a lot of men in the world who are very threatened by successful women. And you came on our show with this husband who, you know, is, what is he? Like, at least 10 years older than you. Yeah. And you're, you're coming into act and you've got this hosting career and you're running from, you know, a war zone here to the Oscars there and going to MTV and going to E.T. and coming to work with us. And he was walking around with you holding one of the dogs and just beaming watching you and the way he talked about you and you'd like go to shoot a scene you know we'd all be down on the river um and two of us wouldn't be on

camera so we'd be at video village and he was at video village and he's like god just look at her she's good at everything and he was so proud of you and it it really it set such an example for me in what I would not tolerate less of in my relationships moving forward as I became an adult. I was like, oh, no, no, there are people who will love your success and be proud of you. And not threatened by you. And if they're not, yeah. Yeah, if they're threatened, that's their shit and it's not your responsibility. And I just, God, I just think about them all the time standing there with that cute dog,

his cute little baseball cap, just watching you and like being so in love with you being the best version of yourself. It was very cool. Oh, my God. You guys are so, so beautiful. Thank you for that because you're going to make me cry. I'm going to make sure he listens to this because, you know, it is, it is hard. I know for so many people to find somebody that is going to root for them. And he really has. I mean, so rooted for me every second of every day for almost 24 years. And you're reminding me how much I should appreciate him even more. I wanted to ask what you remember about Wilmington. You know, you said you came in and you had a big breath of fresh air every time you got there because your life was so such a blur.

What do you remember? What did you love about that town? And what do you remember about your filming experience too? I loved every second of all of it. I think getting to have fun, you know, for me, because I grew up cleaning that. night clubs. I didn't get to go do all the things that kids got to do and have fun. So when I look back in my career, it was things like One Tree Hill or even Fantastic Four, I had like two scenes, but we were there for a month. So I got to have like almost like a college experience where

we would just like go out and party every summer camp. Or dancing with the stars where I got to have my dance recitals, but as an adult, it was awesome. My parents would come see my dance recitals. And so I look back at those moments where I'm like, wow, okay, I got my fun. and kind of like a hyper-insane way. Wilmington was gorgeous. I remember loving it there and there was that ice cream shop. Do you remember that ice cream? Yes, Kill-Wins.

What's it called? Kill-Wins. Kill-Wins. Yes. What was your flavor? What did you go get? I'm always like a cookie dough person or was a cookie dough person then. I haven't done cookie dough very much now, but I was die-hard cookie dough.

yeah that's awesome cookie dough and a waffle where did you stay were you at the riverview suites or were you did you get an apartment while you were there at the point that's the Hilton right the riverview suites yeah yeah we were in there yeah it was so nice

it was just like I could breathe I feel like it was so great and you guys were all so loving and warm and fun and I remember all your dog Sophia my little rescue troupe always Yep. How many do you have now? Just one. Can you believe it?

I know. I'm down to two. Oh, my God. Look at us. At what point do you direct? Like, at what point after conquering all of this stuff, do you say, okay, I'm in the boss chair. This is my time. That's funny. I directed a little. I did a short film years ago. I think that one went to soft by or tried that guy. I don't remember. We did a couple of different movies that Kevin directed, and then I directed a short.

I really like directing a lot. It's funny you say that I have always looked at everything in life like a shot, which is so weird. I don't know why. But then, of course, now it's like a whole other life, right? Because now with iPhones, everything is a shot. But preceding iPhones, everything was a shot in my head. And I love working with actors.

and I love all of that. So I don't know. It just seems like it seems like so much work now. I think I'm like too tired and too old, but I am going to direct a documentary. Joe Berlinger is going to mentor me through directing a documentary on my brain tumor journey and my moms and kind of the parallels I'm seeing in women today

and basically pointing out some of that to everybody. So I'm working on that right now. That's so amazing. He's literally like the best. I'm so excited for you to move into that space. Thank you. Do you find, because one of the things that I think is real interesting about, you know, all of us in the way that, like you said, we pick up exactly where we left off.

And we talk a lot on this show about how we're all at a point in our life where really nothing's off limits. You know, like let's share the lessons. let's get, let's get into the stuff, whether we agree or disagree or we're processing something. And, you know, on your podcast, on Better Together, you open up so much about all of this major life event stuff. And like you said, you do it in a way where it's about wellness and growth. And you're talking about, you know, what you went through with your brain tumor, what your mother went through with her cancer. This is big life stuff. that a lot of people go through, but a lot of people don't often feel like they can talk about.

Do you feel like all the years where you've been a storyteller, where you've built these connections with audiences and people, do you feel like you want to heal out loud so that other people can do that with you? That's an interesting way to put it, actually, to heal out loud. I think I was healing out loud when I started the show because it was partly I wanted to find answers to help my mom through her cancer journey and I knew I had access to people.

I knew I had access to the best of the best. And I knew that I would be able to help others have that access. And then at the same time, be able to help my mom and myself, really my mom, but you never know. There were always some nuggets for me. too. But I think, you know, I just love helping people. That's always been something that's been in my heart and what I loved and admired so much about watching an Oprah in life, right? She loved

helping people. And that was something I loved about her. I love about Tony Robbins. I love about so many people. So I love helping people. And I think that's kind of why. Because I know if I'm open and vulnerable, someone else will be able to be open. and vulnerable and someone else will share something that might help us all kind of unlock something, right? That's why I always say we're better together. Yeah. So, yeah. What inspired you to, when did you start the podcast? Was it initially you started specifically because of what your mom was going through? Or did you, is it something that was ruminating for a long time? I think I shifted it shifted the title to that. I started doing the podcast. It was funny, Kevin. Um,

One day I came home from Eve, and he had blown out our garage. And I'm like, what are you doing, you psycho? He's like, this is your future. And I go, what? And he was building a podcast studio in the garage. And he goes, this is your future. I'm talking about this weirdo. This has literally been 24 years in me calling him a weirdo and not understanding, but he has such vision.

So he built this studio soon after I get a brain tumor. My mom got to brain tumor. I get a brain tumor. and I had surgery and so I had like no balance and you know affected some nerves so all I could do was use my walker and get into the studio and and do my show there so it ended up being you know where I kind of started my podcasting and and then at some point the show um shifted into such health and wellness out of necessity because of my mom yeah so It was organic. It just kind of happened. It was what I was already interested in. I've always been interested in life improvement, self-improvement and health and wellness. But then it became very, very important and very top of mind. And what are the things that keep you staying positive and motivated when you're going through tough times and, you know, as you process the things that you're talking about on your show? Well, I was talking about this recently. Like I think life is like a roller coaster, right? I love roller coasters. Do you guys like roller coasters?

Yeah. I do. Okay. So why do we love roller coasters? Because we're going to scare the shit out of us and then we're going to get to the other side. Right. So it's like we know we're going to be okay. I'm locked in. Yeah. Like no matter what, we're always going to be okay. So I love, I love the analogy of a roller coaster because it's highs and lows. We're going to have them. It's inevitable. Life isn't supposed to be fair. It's not going to be perfect. It's how we choose to go through it. And so I made a conscious decision. It took me a second. I had to gather myself because when you hear your mom, as stage four brain cancer, it is the most paralyzing worst moment of your life. But I said, okay, we're going to go through this with, like, faith and with, you know, as much laughter and comedy as possible. And the same thing when I was diagnosed. I was like, okay, now it's pure comedy. I mean, I was cracking jokes with a neurosurgeon. The second I walked in there, I go, hey, so you see this mother-daughter tumor thing often?

And he was like, oh, God. And I'm like, okay then. Great. You're ready to the room. Serious here. Okay. So the point where I had promised him I would go to this charity event where they were honoring him. It was June 7th.

I get diagnosed like sometime I think it was like in April or something. And he's like, well, I can operate on the 8th of June. I said, well, that's my birthday. It's perfect. It's a rebirth. And he goes, well, obviously you're not going to make it on the 7th. And I go, no, I'll be there. He's like, what?

And so I show up to this charity. event, you guys. And it's at the Sabon's house. The Sabon's are these like over wealthy family, whatever, in Beverly Hills. And I see Dr. Black and I'm like, hey, to drink minimum, you're in my brain tomorrow morning. I'm watching you. And so then they're showing brain surgeries that he's operated on on the screens. And I'm looking around. I see like Ted Sarando's from Netflix there and all these people. I'm like, no one has a clue, but this man's going to be cutting my skull open and removing a tumor tomorrow. Oh, this is insane. But yeah, I mean, I definitely am someone who honors my commitment. So I went. Wow. Unbelievable. It's bananas. But, you know, life is going to have

bro. It's per falls. It's why I love Rocky so much. He says it's not about how hard you can get hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. And so I think we all have choices how we want to go through things. And I know that the decision to use comedy and to make it as light as possible made our journey easier. And so I highly encourage it because having your pity party, we can all have our pity party for a minute. I had one the other day on, you know, when I'm like, oh, Christmas is ruined. Kevin and I both have COVID. This is great. Oh no. Can't go on our trip. But that took a minute. And then I was like, okay, this is probably happening for a reason. Well, what is it? Then you dig in. You're like, well, I need

arrest and I think God is just forcing a rest and I think that's you know there's always a reason behind things it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges we aim to explore that culture it was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional it feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for a kind of weird you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence that's sierra teller ornelis who with rutherford falls became the first native showrunner in television history on the podcast burn sage burn bridges we explore her story along with other native stories such as the creation of the

first native comic-con or the importance of reservation basketball every day native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi.

Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco. What difference at this point does it make?

Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's so important. I think this is such a valuable outlook because it seems like a very, it's a very common theme right now in our modern Western society, the entitlement to not suffer, the entitlement to this idea that I shouldn't, be inconvenienced. I shouldn't be suffering. I shouldn't be going through anything. I have a right to my perfect life. And it shows up in so many ways. And it is so hard to, I don't know, I feel like,

I don't know if it's just this new generation or just what's happening with culturally in our, in our society right now. But I think it's what you're talking about as a message that's really important for people to listen to and to re-evaluate where we are in life. Yeah, you know, it's so interesting that you phrase it that way, Joy, part of what I've really been wondering a lot about, which I know is a bit ironic, considering we're all connecting via devices from four different places around the country. But I think there's like a dissonance happening because so many people are on devices so much of the day. And what people share out in the digital world is their highlight real.

Oh, for sure. So subconsciously or even consciously, now we all think everyone's out there having this Instagram perfect life. And suddenly we go, well, why am I the only person having a hard day? And it's like, well, everyone's having a hard day. They're just not posting about it. And I really wonder how. Well, and that, by the way, feeds the mentality that I'm talking about, that entitlement.

Like, I should, there's something wrong with me. Yeah. That's what I mean. And that's why to bring it full circle, I think a show like yours, Maria, is so important. Because when you let people get real about what's going on, when you let people in, I mean, it's why I started my podcast. It's why I launched work in progress to have like long, deep talks that are honest and funny and hard. It's why when we launched this show, we were like, well, let's not about all. get into it. Let's talk about, let's get into it. Let's talk about the weird misogyny. Let's talk about what was really fucked up culturally back then. Let's talk about what we've all learned. Let's talk about what was hilarious. When you can be your whole self in a space, I think you do give other people permission to do the same. And it is like kind of an out-of-body experience that I know I'm having as the four of us talk about this right now. Because I realize, I don't think I could have consciously articulated this at 23.

But you showed up for us when we were 23 and you were an example of this living out loud then. And we didn't have, you know, women really to set examples for us who were producers and hosts. All the people in power on our show were men. And you showed up and you were like, oh, I'm in power. I have five companies. And we were like, you could do that? Yeah, that's allowed.

Oh, we should all try to be like Maria. Oh, my God. I want that on a T-shirt. I want Be like Maria on a T-shirt. Be like Maria. You had that energy where all the boys wanted to flirt with you, but you demanded respect and used humor in a way that they never, from an outside observer, they didn't trivialize you the way some other girls.

got trivialized. Like, you were well respected on our set. Our, like, grips and electrics were like, that Maria, she's a dame, you know? Like, it's so funny. It's so funny how other people perceive you and you don't even know what they think of you. Like, sure. That's so interesting. I appreciate

that. Feedback. There is nothing like a dame. Nothing like a dame. Well, I hope it was a good experience because I know the Jules' storyline is like, you know, it's a fun storyline and I wish we had gotten more Jules. I'm glad that we got more. than the one or two episodes you thought it was going to be.

I know, me too. Me too. It was literally such an amazing experience. Oh, you know what I was going to say. I just remembered it. What I was going to say is, so you talk about kind of like showing up and doing all this stuff. And first of all, it was really, really hard because I, you know, again, nobody wants you to do anything other than the one thing you're doing.

And so we had to fight and fight and fight. Can we do this? Can we do that? Can we do this? And by the way, my male co-stars historically could do the exact same thing I asked for, but I couldn't. Right. I literally, oh my God, the examples are so horrendous and evil and bad.

But anyway, we thought, and I'll never forget, Kevin actually threw the gauntlet down for me to do One Tree Hill. Really? He called the executive and said, she's doing it. I think he said something like, she's doing it. And I remember being in an airport shaking because I'm like, is this the right thing to do? Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

We just bought a house and I'm like, how are we going to pay for things? And I get fired and all this stuff. And he just grew down. He's like, listen, her weekends, you know, she's working for you guys seven days a week or whatever. She's going to do this. And that's it. There's just like, so we like fired the shot. And we were like, but I'm so grateful because I'm so grateful because I, I,

would never have had that experience. And, you know, they would have chewed me up and spit me out at some point anyway. So now I got to have all these really amazing experiences with great people and great friendships that I've built throughout the years. So, well, we have to have an in real life reunion once you get better. Please. Where are you guys located? Are you guys all in Cali? No, I'm in New York. Yeah, I'm in California right now. And so is Sophia, but she's also in Toronto. Where are you? I'm in L.A. Okay. Where did you grow up, by the way? Boston. Oh, okay. That's why the Lord and Taylor. I was like, were you Jersey? Yeah. Lord and Taylor. So maybe that's what we'll do. Yeah. Let's have a get together.

Oh, my God. That'd be so fun. We'll kidnap Hillary and we'll have a little get together. Guys, I would just come to the ranch. Oh, yes. We'll go to Sophia's ranch. Yeah, I've got to, I I'm becoming an adult life change COVID reassess was getting a ranch up in wine country in California so we can drive here and ban we can we love the men Kevin included but we'll just ban them for the weekend that we got. Road trip. Oh my God.

Oh, a road trip with Jules. She's a bad driver, remember? Oh my God, should we take a convertible Mustang from Dan Scott Motors? Yes, we're at home. Hey, do we have any fan-quited. questions that Maria can answer with us. We do fan questions and then we spin a wheel for our superlatives are most likely

to. I'm looking for fan questions. I can't believe Keith died that fast. I have no recollection. I've so crazy. I had to even remember how evil I was. I didn't even remember my own storyline. To be honest, I had to go back and watch a little bit last night.

Maria, I didn't remember that you were evil until we read the prep doc for you. coming on this episode. I'm so enamored with jewels that I forgot. I definitely fooled us all. Friends, we have a wheel. It has been spun. The superlative this week,

most likely to win an Olympic gold medal. Maria, we pick a cast member, like a real life person, but also a character on the show. So who do we think is most likely to win an Olympic gold medal? I mean, I guess it would have been, so, yeah, you probably would have, right?

Like, you were such a like, focused go-getter, like, perfect. Yeah, whatever Sophia put her mind to you, she would have. No, Sophia would win in, like, archery. You know what I mean? Like, you would take, like, you know what? Yes. I'll take it. Yeah.

I would. I mean, I could, I, when you guys, when the Hunger Games came out, I was like, oh, I could really get Katness up in this. if things got weird. I love that plan. So I'll take that compliment. Wasn't, am I crazy? Wasn't Paul on the Olympic basketball team for Canada?

Yeah, he was actually. So Paul's the answer for that, for sure. Paul's really the answer, but honestly, I love that you fit to me, thank you. I'm sure. Which character from the show? I mean, poor Nathan in his high flyer situation. I could have been a contender. I feel like it would have been Quentin if it hadn't gone south for him.

Oh, Quentin. Yeah. That's another person that dies, Maria. We have a whole slew of them. So much death. There was a lot of loss in Tree Hill. Good God. It's like Game of Thrones around here.

Well, Jules is thriving out there somewhere. I just know it. I feel like Jules should have come back and got a bartending job at Trick. That would have been the ticket. Didn't I bartend on the show at one point? I feel like yes. I think I did. I didn't.

I remember working, like, I remember working there for some reason. Weird. I guess we're going to find out. Yeah, we're just going to plow through all these episodes. What's your drink, Maria? This is where I throw my brain tumor card down. I'm like, I have a brain tumor.

All right, folks. Well, we're all going to get together at some point, hopefully very soon in 2022. And we want everyone to listen to your podcast. When does it, what days does it drop? We are a daily show, actually. Amazing. Oh my gosh. How do you have the energy? Yeah, gone off the board. Actually, we went daily in COVID. So when COVID, I was a weaker and I felt like I needed to be with everybody. So I was like, okay, we'll do this every day. It'll probably last like two weeks. And so here we are.

Amazing. Wow. Better together with Maria Minno. It's on YouTube and Apple podcast. And then I'm launching a website companion for the show mid-January. Amazing. Awesome. We're so happy to see you. Yeah, we're so great for you. Thank you. Thank you. Love you, girl. Love you. Love you. Love you. Bye. Oh, friends. We love Maria Menunos. We love you. We're so grateful that you spend your time with us, spend your afternoons or your mornings. Maybe you're in your morning commute. But we love hanging out with you. And thanks for showing up every week with us. And can't wait to see you next week. I'll see you soon. Don't forget. Be like Maria. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.

Or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. We need a smart girl, rough girl, fashion with your tough girl. You could sit with us.

Girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco. Benghazi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.