Drama Queens - The Dream Theme ᐧ EP605 with Ashley Rickard

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

Ashley joins the girls as they recap an episode that seemed to have had every character’s dream in jeopardy! Plus, find out what happened during filming that made Joy wish it was only a dream, Ashley reveals her dream castmate wishlist and the girls give their honorable mention award to a dream performance!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. queens welcome back friends we are about to get into season six episode five you've dug your own

grave now lying it uh originally aired september 29th 2008 an incompatible date in a promotion tour for his book forces lucas to tell lindsay he's getting married to payton oh boy what What a full-blown, like, just soap opera sentence. Nathan receives an offer from a pro basketball team. Brooke struggles with giving up her company to Victoria, while Peyton discovers a dark secret about her new recording artist. Haley unwittingly puts Jamie's life in peril when she thinks Dan is on his deathbed, which leaves to a final showdown with Nicky Carey.

This episode, dun dun dun this was wild like a wild time and and friends we have one of our pals here to discuss said wild time with us none other than the incredible ashley records who played sam hello hello what a crazy episode truly did you uh when you got this script this is like your first script where you have a bunch of material. Did you get the script and you're like, what the hell did I just sign up for? This show is bananas. Yeah.

Normally before I do something I like to be caught up, but y'all were in season six. So there was no way I could do that in 48 hours, which is I think how long I had until I was in Wilmington from Don Cucos in Burbank, which is where I. I kind of found out I was getting the role. But, yeah, so I was reading the script, like, I don't know who any of these people are or why people are. It seems important and scary. I'll go with that.

You know, it was pretty clear that, like, Victoria was, what, Sophia's mom. And that sucks that her store basically got, I think, essentially stolen. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. And by the way, side note, you and Hillary, like, looking back, I'm like, they have the sexiest voices. They're just like so, like, I don't know.

It's just I was like, wow, should I start doing that? maybe there's a lesson there but yeah it was it was definitely a wild read I thought it was crazy and I was you know I've been doing the show for six years so far and that was really nuts to get this thing and I'm going we're running through a cornfield

this is full this is we're beyond misery now this is Stephen King's misery we're like in total horror movie I just didn't understand what the correlation was, why we were doing it. It must have aired around Halloween, right? Yeah, probably. September 29, yeah, a month before.

Yeah, I think what's sort of interesting to me looking back on it and what you're referencing is in a way it's like a spoof of a horror movie, like Dan doing the, I hate the woods, and like Nanny Carey popping back up at the end and all these things that are so, they're sort of campy. It's not taking itself too seriously.

It's being extra ridiculous for the sake of ridiculousness. Yes. But then you have these very real things happening where Peyton's dealing with, is this or isn't my dad? Mick is, you know, losing a year of sobriety. Ashley, you know, you're playing Sam, who is a houseless teen and Brooks in therapy dealing with like her maternal trauma.

And then you've got like axe murder and cornfields and I was like, I know I've said this before after certain episodes, but I was like, I feel like I have a whiplash. Like, I don't know which way I'm looking and I don't, I don't know if I'm doing like parenthood or if I'm doing an ax murderer movie. Like what? Like, Nathan's out on the basketball court, like thinking he's going to get to play again, but they really just want him to coach. Lucas is having this very, yeah, Lucas is having this very real, struggle with how to tell his ex-fiance that she was right all along and he actually is going to marry the girl that he was in love with all this time. And it's so, yeah. Yeah, that's the stuff that the show

was built on, like all the very real, raw personal moments. And then Dan's in a hospital gown shooting a woman in the stomach. It's just so confusing to me. It's just really, really confusing. So something that is actually interesting, because you were just talking about voices. Ash, is I noticed that the top of this episode, the voiceover trades from each character to each character over their little eight-minute page scene in the montage, like the opening montage. And we were talking, I can't remember if it was last week or the week before,

about how cool it was that in your first episode, even before we've met Sam, you're doing the voiceover. And at the end of the episode, we find out it's the essay that you, you wrote about Quentin and I just I don't know exactly what it is yet but I I'm noticing these changes that they're making to how our voiceovers work and I don't know I just I find it interesting and I thought it was very cool that every character was telling their little bit of a story yeah I thought it just all came back to the same you know theme of well one was like a super violent way to tell the theme of like family and not feeling alone is so important

and if you don't have family you can define that with friends but it's the point of not being alone and independence and what what really matters in life what what makes you say i was here I did something great. Like what, what is that? And, you know, with Brooke, she's at this place where it's like what, especially in the therapist's office, it's like what, what have I really accomplished with this store something that keeps me kind of, is this enough? Or did I just spend so much time working?

And you talk about being jealous of. not being, like, insecure or afraid of Sam, but being jealous because she doesn't have anyone to answer to, but I think later you'll, you'll find out or come to feel and realize that Sam and Brooke are very similar in the sense that, like, they're both kind of on their own and figuring out what their value is. I think that maybe, you know, Brooke is is wondering how long or if, or if, you know, what she did will matter and, you know, how long that impact will last. And I think on the other end of the spectrum, Sam is wondering how long this chapter of her life is going to last. so it's an interesting parallel and I thought it was it was nice and it was nice to see kind of the

build of where it would go with those two and they're there's how similar they were even though they were very different yeah I love I think we've all especially as just grown women we've all had to learn how to parent ourselves in different spaces in our lives and you know there's the cliche of like the inner child work but it's it's true you know there's always parts of ourselves that we get to go back and explore and um tend to and i love seeing brook having this opportunity you know brook who wants to be a mom and she's taken strides in that direction being offered this opportunity to um revisit the part of herself that felt abandoned and left on the side of the road and left just to fend for herself and not only she's

she getting to heal herself, but she's actually going to be able to help another person at that actual age heal. It's really a beautiful, it's a beautiful connectivity that they, that they weaved here. Yeah. Yeah. And I like that we have to do it together, you and I, because something that hit me when we had that scene in the Dixie Grill, you know, when you, you buy me my coffee, and then you're like, it's your money anyway. But I thought it was really interesting that these two women are having a really important conversation but from behind their own walls.

Like neither of us is willing to be vulnerable enough to say what we mean. But you feed me the line about your mom and your curfew despite being this motherless child. And I don't quite have the courage yet to say, what I really want to say about my own lack of mother, a mother figure

or ever having been mothered. So I hide behind like pretty lucky to have a mom who cares about you. You know, and I think we both know neither of us is telling the truth, but neither of us knows what to say. And then you leave.

And it's like, I love that in a way it's their wounds that see each other first. I mean, I don't even, as I recall, I don't think Sam ever really looks at Brooke, makes eye contact. And if it is, it's brief in that scene. But yeah, what you said about their wounds seeing each other first is, that's a beautiful way to put it. That's a beautiful way to put it.

It is what was happening in that moment, sort of their walls connecting. That's so normal life. Yeah. I'm trying to think of, you know, chronologically, do we, like, do we go through, because it does bounce all over the place. So if we're, if we start with, um, another thing that I've really loved was as I mentioned before,

James, uh, well, Nathan going into thinking he's going to go play basketball and the, the thrill of the whole family being so excited, like wow, dreams are still coming true. Yeah.

And after, after the blow of Quentin's death, um, And now feeling like Dan is dying, there's just so much happening for this family. And again, to see him show up somewhere and realize that it's not what he thought it was, the dream still may not happen. It's interesting, like the theme of, in this episode of dreams, possible dreams popping up and then fading away, or the full loss of a dream like Lindsay with Lucas.

like she was pushing him away the whole time but still now it's the nails really in the coffin like it's it's really over um brook losing her business um even carry losing the the this plan that she'd had all along to get what her dream was even though we all see it for what it was there's still so many dreams just being put out on the table and everyone's trying to find a way to pick it up or looking at it and going oh this isn't what i I thought it was. Sorry, I don't mean to be talking in circles. It's just kind of coming to me as I think about this episode.

But I did like that. I thought that was well done. Yeah. And it's stuff that you don't think about too hard. I think that's the marker of something that's been well written. Bill Brown wrote this episode. When you get to see all these themes kind of come to the surface, the more you process it. Anyway.

Yeah, I mean, that moment where Lucas, tells Lindsay kind of out of force because he's like I don't know I'm going to tell her and you know she she's like what's so important about this date and he's like my wedding your heart just breaks your heart just breaks for her yeah it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on Burnsage Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a master. Barrasicist rolled their eyes or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know what I loved, though? And maybe it's because we've all had our fair share, you know, over the years on the show of having to do really overly emotional kind of soapy things where people pitch fits about, you know, whatever emotional love triangle they're in at the time. I loved that they allowed them to have a gentle landing these two characters because they'd had the blowups and they'd had the, you know, you know, runaway bride moment, I just really loved that they gave it so much authenticity where she got to say, where she got to say, I always knew. I was in denial. That was bad for me and bad for you. Yep. Like, when we think about this idea of, you know, how we get to

reparent ourselves, like that is such a mature moment for someone to be like, yeah, it was never right. It wasn't working for us. Like, go find where it works for you. And I was like, wow, I just don't feel like I've seen that modeled a lot on shows like this because they always want the drama moment. And I loved that Lucas and Lindsay, they certainly got the drama moment with like, what's more important than for all the my wedding?

It was like, whoa, they got it. But then they gave us something that, I don't know, as a viewer, I felt like it was really refreshing. Kind. Yeah, and like you can just see, you still, it might seem like it's, you know, settled, but you can still see the heartbreak behind her. And she got to really, you know, bury that deep, deep inside her,

not be asked to just, like you were saying, to your point, sort of overdo it acting wise. She just got to play the truth and how we would actually probably feel in real life or how we would project an act in real life. It's always so hard. It's so hard to put a dream down. Even though you know it's not right,

there's always like this, especially with Lucas pursuing Lindsay for as long as he did after she left the altar. It's, yeah, it felt that got me. I'm trying to think about moments in life when I've, you know, you pick up a dream and then you have to put it back down because you realize it's not what you think.

thought it was or you realize like maybe you actually don't even want it anymore but it's still there's still a loss um yeah i i love that about our show i love that we hit those real very real moments that's good yeah Peyton picking up this dream of her dad that's so interesting too and it's so sweet and gentle and it's such a nice we talked about this a couple i guess it would have been a couple months ago now. What is time? But just for reference, Ashley, like, we were talking about how Payton and Lucas getting back together has been so fun for us all to watch because we get to see Peyton be so happy. And in this, I felt like we got this other layer, almost like another layer was peeled back. And we keep getting to see her as this younger version of her,

like the teenager in her coming out. Yeah. And instead of being, you know, salty, stalking around the high school, like, you know, assassin people, she's vulnerable and excited and hopeful and nurturing the child inside of herself. Yeah, she wants to find this missing piece of herself. And it's so pure. And I love watching Hillary play this version of Peyton. Me too. I mean, it's heartbreaking when she's having that scene where, oh, my God, where she's, you know, why don't you come over for dinner tonight?

And you can clearly tell that she knows that that's her father. And at the same time, hopes that he'll come, but kind of has an idea that he won't. and that is another dream being put down that I don't think I don't think anyone's ever ready for that to essentially re-lose a parent oh and Peyton's been through so much already yeah it's just the fact that she's I mean I do that's what I love about her character she just keeps being willing to open back up and see what is coming next

to see what's, you know, maybe this time. One thing, it's funny, what you're saying, Sophie, about Hillary playing the character this way, because we don't get to see Peyton soft and vulnerable very often at all. We haven't throughout the years. And the first thing I thought when I saw Sam for the first time, after having not watched this show for so many years, was, you know, you're sitting in the back with all of your goth clothes or whatever, like hardcore punk clothes. And your backpack says, it's got the anarchy symbol on it.

And it was so Peyton in high school. It's really fun to see. It's really fun to see Sam echoing those same sentiments. And then we also get to see who she maybe turns into in the echo of Peyton years later. You know? Did you, when you were brought on the show, did you, were you modeling your character after anyone? Did you feel like you knew that there was a parallel with? Peyton or were you just completely flying blind? What was your intro and set up there?

More so a little bit. Well, I knew that as an actor that like the feedback is, oh, you're edgy, oh, you're edgy. But like I constantly tried to play against that in my career. And what ended up happening was some sort of weird 14-year-old wearing like J. Crew and Ann Taylor. And like, I don't know why. I'm super... On our show. No, no, no, no, like in my real life. I was trying to overcompensate for the natural sort of edginess that I have. Oh, I see. Okay.

Yeah, because I was like, I don't remember you being in Banana Republic. No, no, no, no. No. I felt way more comfortable as Sam than I felt at that time in my own life. And so I actually got to be myself, but also learn about myself through Sam. And thank God, get a better sense of style. Even if Sam's style was like, it still was a lot better than what I was doing. And it kind of introduced me into, you know, having style that expresses you.

And I love. That's so cool. Yeah, I'll forever love and thank your show for that. Giving you the permission to just do what you felt like you actually wanted to do. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, Sam just, she was. She was very like punk. I would say grunge. But yeah. I mean, it was so fun there. I would later realize that you can take clothes home from wardrobe if you ask and make sure that you're done with that scene. And I wish I had done that more on this show at all. Well, if it makes you feel any better, they did not allow that on our show. They would charge you if...

Yeah, Sophia's got the receipts to prove it. Yeah. Well, and what was really funny is when we wrapped, there was like a major wardrobe braid. And like, there were some people who took some of Brooks clothes because they were a vibe. But like, I'd worn them. I didn't want them. And they tried to bill me for all of them. And I was like, I don't have all of that.

I have like these 10 things that I will pay you for because they're sentimental. and I want to keep them, but like, you got to figure out where the rest of them went. Sorry. It was wild. Warner Brothers was very much, they were on those balance sheets. Well, they knew what they had. They knew Montreal was such a hit. They were like, we can't get rid of any of this stuff. What happens if that shirt becomes iconic and we have to, you know, put in a museum one day? Yeah. Could you imagine? Yeah, I can. Because by the way, I just went to New York and did the Harry Potter tour and the Friends tour where it's like the whole setup is everywhere. You walk into a huge building in New York City and it's the whole friend's set, all the costumes, all these props,

all these great. And you go to a tour through the whole building and it's all these iconic moments from the show and you walk through. I'm like, how is there not a One Tree Hill experience out there? Like a real, it would do so well. Oh my gosh. I know. But now we all have to. be involved in that because it was our idea. Absolutely. You heard it here first. We should. We had these one fans, and I guess it's pretty,

Montreal is pretty popular in France. Yeah. So, I mean, I've never been to Paris. I've never been there this time. And like someone brings me like a little Eiffel Tower key chain. I was like, oh, this was in France.

Like, so cool. It's crazy how much the reach is on the show. Yeah, you would think it would do extremely well, one of those tours. Yeah. Well, there was that group of girls who would always come from France on their spring break. And I think, like, I think the third year, Ashley, we were like, guys, you're lovely. But you have to want to go somewhere else. Like, you want to go to, like, New York to see a lovely show.

Go to L.A., like hike the Hollywood sign. Yeah, go see the Grand Canyon. And they were like, no. We just want to see you. I just want to hang out in Wilmington, and we were like, oh, I mean, okay. I promised the Grand Canyon is better. I promised. Yeah.

Yeah, I was like, it's really, like, magical. You should probably go. So sweet. But, yeah, it's true. I know. We just have to find a way to put one of those things together. Well, isn't it funny, though, that even, I mean, when we think about reach, right, and the sort of personal relationships that, like, our audience formed with this

show. Sometimes it's easy to be like, really us? Why? And then even in an insane episode like this, we're like, oh my God, is this all about people's materials? Is that what this episode is about? And we're like, oh, yeah, you go like, oh, I get it. It actually is really saying something as ridiculous as like, I hate the woods. Or Deb. I guess there's more than one crazy nanny in this town. Come on. Deb with the champagne bottle, like full slow clap. I was like, honestly Barbara you are an icon and it was just a full clothesline like such a good hit but then you had this great moment where you you pull Jamie out of the cornfield which is such classic chorus up and you're like and everyone's like oh my gosh when your phone goes off and that's just I when you say like run

it comes from it's good though I loved it I loved it that you know that's the name of this episode mommy issues because every moment of this episode has something to do with even Peyton because it's all about Ellie. Tell me everything about my mom. Dad wants to know everything about her. By the way, poor, think about Jamie's childhood trauma. Nanny Carrie is at the window. I'm your mommy now. Like, what? Growling at him. I'm like, he's five. What are we doing? She goes and gets an axe. Like, it is, it is so level 10 crazy. But it works. Like Tori committed so hard.

And she's so good. And her mommy issues in this too. That day was so awful in the cornfield. It was hot. Why? And it was so hot. And it was buggy. There were just so many bugs.

And we were in shorts and tank tops. And it was just a yucky. And the corn was so itchy. Every time you would run through it, it's like, you know, mites or whatever. I felt like they were just getting in my skin. It was truly, truly a miserable day on the cornfield. I was so happy when that day was over. It just looked like the setups were hard even. Like that must have taken so long because you both are fully running and there's probably a camera on track running or was it steady cam. I don't know. I really don't remember.

It just seems like a lot of it would have been sitting around probably in that. sticky weather with a fan. Yeah. Yeah, it was gross. I mean, we had fun in the sense that the group of us that were there, it was a fun group, like me, Tori, Barbara and Paul, plus Jackson's mom, Jody, we all got on really well. So it was a fun, you know, and John Asher was always a good time. So we, it was a fun group.

And that definitely made it go by better. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to live that day again. Yeah. I remember watching this episode last night in advance of us all getting together today. Watching you guys run through that corn, I was like, I wonder if they had Tim out of Oh my gosh, that's right. I was just thinking about like the snake clearance that needs to happen. I was like, who walked through there with a rake and made sure there weren't like giant spiderwebs?

It was a no for me, dog. I was like, I just don't know. No, I don't want to do that. I have no desire to do that. I made a horror movie once. It almost killed me. I loved it, and it was hard. And there was no corn. But yours was, that was tough too. That sounded way worse. I think the only reason I know how gross it is in there is because we used to do these amazing service projects every year with my high school. And there was a year we went to one of the big corn farms just outside of L.A. And even though it had been like, you know, picked clean for the harvest,

there's still so much good produce out, you know, on the plants. And so we would sign up to do these volunteer days where we'd go in and we'd pick all the extra corn that we could and it would all go to food pantries around L.A., like super cool thing, you know, for middle schoolers and high schoolers to get involved in. And I shudder when I think about, like, the bugs and the snakes and the things that were out there. And so maybe that's why I just, like, deep from in my bones, I'm like, I know how buggy Is there? No. Nope. I just texted Paul to see if he had any great cornfield day stories. We'll see if he gets back to me. Yeah, he's got such a good memory. I do not. Well, he's lucky. He didn't have to go out there with you guys. He was there. Yeah, but I just mean he wasn't like out in the corn. He was like in the house. Paul was so great. I loved working with him. He was so nice. He loved working with you too. I know he loved directing you because you're just so easy to, you know, you just dove in. You just dove in. You didn't have a lot of the baggage of actor baggage, you know, when you've gone to the classes for years and years and years and you've been taught.

Even sometimes you can see people who've gone to Juilliard or something. You just kind of watch the footprints of their rehearsal all over their performance because it feels so stiff and structured and like they've made very meticulous plans about what they're going to do, which sometimes really works. But I think what I know he loved and what I really love about your work, Ashley, is that you always feel very spontaneous. in the moment and just kind of connect. Not that you don't rehearse, I'm sure you do, but the preparation gets to sit, gets to take a seat. You've done all your work, and so when you show up,

you just get to respond. Oh, well, that's super flattering. But I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, it's true. Oh, he just texted me back, by the way. Let's see. Okay, this is what Paul says.

I remember constantly apologizing to Tori, saying things like, I won't point the gun at you, and are you comfortable with me holding a gun, and do you want to shoot me first? Oh, God. Yes, because that was back. Oh, that was in the time when there was.

Where was the safety training? Yeah, yeah. Thank God he knew how to handle all that. But, yeah, there was just so much of that on the show this season. I'm glad we're transitioning out of that. That's a lot. I know, we need to get, I'm sure there's got to be cornfield stories. I'll ask Tori and Barbara, too, because, man.

I'm sure. I'm also just desperate to know who picks the like drug filter. You know, Nanny Carey gives Dan the injection and is like, you're going to be behaved for me when you're showing up with Jamie. And then it cuts to like, they made it look like the edges of the TV were like an eyeball. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then he could only see through the, and you know what I mean and I'm watching it going who designs these like who's the person who picks the like this will be the drug filter for for the lens when we're looking at nanny carry yeah she's giving him the morphine and I'm just like this is so silly like I wish it was just like maybe going a little more in and out of focus yeah yeah like eyeball on the I was sobbing laughing you guys I like I can't it's pretty

great we got to go outside I can't I cannot with this our show because came the experimental place. I feel like there were so many people who came in to direct, who were never directors that were just sort of like, hey, that sounds fun. I want to direct something. Everybody was like, go do one tree hill. You know, just like, why are you experimenting on us? We are showing up and doing really good work. You know, most of the time it turned out okay. But yeah, there were things like that where it was just like, I don't know, let's see what happens. Let's put a fish eye lens on this. Yeah. Why not? You know, I wish I had worked with, was Stephen Coletti

Oh yeah Because I grew up watching Rago Beach So if I mean I was like a teenager He was like in its 20s But I had the biggest crush on him You did?

Yeah Wait, does he know any of this? Well when we went to the convention And we were both in our 20s So he knows who I am No, he's a sweetheart you guys would have had fun i know i died for this you didn't quite overlap that would have been fine i had no idea where sam and him where would why would be in any scene together yeah

listen we'd have done crazier things on that show so we can give you a fantasy sam chase storyline let's do it yeah let's do it yeah there probably would have been an all ages night at trick and then we yeah you know we'd have to find out that you were secretly 18 or something and Well, that's it. Actually, thinking about it being our show, probably not. But who knows? They would have probably found a way. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies.

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok, from Prologue projects.

and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ash, how many episodes did you do with us? Off the top of my head? 6 to 10, somewhere in there. Okay, yeah. Isn't it funny? It's such a testament, 19 episodes. Oh, I did 19, whoa. 19, I was going to say.

It's amazing, though. It's such a testament to the way, the bonding that happened and how it felt being down in Wilmington. I mean, to do 22 episodes of six seasons or 10 seasons, you know, as far as we went, there were people that came in, only even for six episodes here or there or, you know, 19 or 20. But it all, even Robbie Jones, who played Quentin for five or six episodes. And the impact that it had, it's just amazing to me that we shot so much, but y'all just, but you guys just made such a big impact. That's all. Yeah. I did feel like I'd spent longer than six episodes in Wilmington now that I think about it. Yeah. But 19. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you, you really were with us for a pretty full season. Yeah. I don't know. I just, I really liked the device. I remember getting these initial scripts at the start of season six and, you know, finding out from the writers what our storyline was going to be and thinking it was a really cool choice because last season, you know, Brooke had essentially been testing out being a foster parent by housing a kid who needed to have heart surgery, who had come in to the states for a pro bono program from another country. and I loved that they found a way for us to connect.

Like you were saying, Joy, at the age where Brooke's big sort of wound with her parents is when they moved away and let her live with Lucas and Karen, Sam comes into the picture. And I just think it's so cool the way we see each other and where our storyline goes. And it's not lost on me reflecting on it, that it's also really when Brooke is getting,

so honest about her life in therapy. You know, we're in these weekly sessions. You see this girl taking charge of her mental health. Also, Joy, did you faint when Brooke calls out the device you hate the most? When I ask the therapist a question and then she poses it back to me and I go, do you always answer a question with another question? Does it bother you? I know.

It doesn't bother you. Yeah. It's so annoying. It's just so funny because it drives Joy. It's so crazy. And I was like, oh, there she goes. But I just love that there's this opportunity to be honest about transition. And she says, you know, it felt so good giving the company away.

And now I feel really empty because really work has been Brooke's identity. And then the therapist asks her about that. Yeah. You know, she says, all you ever do is talk about your work. But when you talk about your friends, you talk about friendships and family. and romance and all these things. And I wrote down that quote, why are you so insistent on going through life alone?

Yeah. And it's, I mean, such a vestige of childhood trauma is to choose to be like such a ferocious individual and to never need help and to never ask for help. And I don't know. It's sort of wild to me, you know, at this point in my life. having done all of the therapy that I've done and, you know, being in this sort of stage of self-knowledge to go, wow, we were talking about this on TV a long time ago. I'm really heartened

by that. I don't know. I feel like it wasn't so common. Did you guys talk about mental health or any of those things when you were doing awkward? Well, I mean, the show opens with like, like everyone thinks that Jenna tried to kill herself but it was just a super unfortunate accident she was yeah she was just taking aspirin slipped the hairdry went into the bath the box of razors flew everywhere and then she broke her arm and like twisted her neck

so like that's the last thing she remembers and she wakes up and it's like horrible cats and everyone in a very comedic way like treating her gently and you know then you get to high school and they're like oh that's the girl who tried to kill herself but it did it did touch on on mental health in a in a couple episodes um yeah but it was a like there's this one episode where sadie um molly tarloff's character is um she's like looking in the mirror and She just, she's making jokes about, about her appearance, but she's, she's crying through it. And that's just like, that's just that character in a nutshell. I mean, her character was so complex, really deeply rooted and, you know, body image as she used, which is so prevalent now and so important for her character to be on and do the work that

she did because she showed that like it she was a bully but she was funny and given half a chance to be let it you know open up she would and uh but yeah so we touched on it with that and um that's cool yeah i just think it's so cool that you know sometimes as actors we get to do these things that when you look back, like that storyline you're talking about with you and Molly or this one, you know, for my character that wound up leading to our character's relationship, I love when you see something and you go, wow, that feels timeless. That feels important. Like there's a, there's a bit of the monologue I give to the therapist in this episode, the bit about watching all my friends move on with their lives, they're moving forward, and I'm stuck here. And it, a couple of

months ago, it was trending on TikTok. And like, when I tell you, one of my friends sent it to me, I was like, do you know about this? And I was like, I'm on TikTok like once a month, so no. Unless my friends, like, send me memes that then I think are hilarious and then I wind up sending memes to 40 other people. Like, talk about an ADHD hole. Like, oh, my God. I'll just be like, wait, this is so funny. Oh, my God. Is this white people around this app all the time? Oh, my God. I have to send you this video of you or this video of this other person that reminds me of you. It's so, I get lost, which is why I don't allow myself to do it. It was a great speech, though. It was such a great moment. It's such a good speech. And the audio got used by all of

these women who were talking about, like, chronic health issues or cancer diagnoses or leaving abusive relationships. And I spent like three hours on TikTok one night, just watching all of these videos, these people made with that audio from this Brooke Davis therapy session, just like sobbing into a box of tissues. I was like everyone's really amazing and I'm just glad people are taking care of themselves. And it's wild to see that like in 2023. Yeah. Hit for people in this way. It's like we get to sometimes we have to do ridiculous things on camera, but sometimes we get to do things that are really, really special. And important. I made obviously a huge impact. Yeah. I just think it's so cool. Well, I mean, it was, it was really great scene.

I had me choked up a little bit. I definitely relate to it. I mean, yeah, I did too. It was beautiful. Really well done. As much as I, like watching therapy sessions on TV, it's always, it's just tricky to shoot that stuff. You know, at some point it's just, it's like, okay, two people talking.

Like, how much, like show me, show me things rather than just explaining things. But I do really like this device in this way because also, So, therapy is kind of a new, you know, last like 20, 30 years, I think our generation's so used to it. We think it's so normal. But our parents' generation certainly isn't. For them, it's like, oh, my gosh, therapy. Like, well, I'm okay.

Why would I need therapy? It's not used by the older generation as just a maintenance, like, healthy. We just need to be able to talk about things sometimes, and that's okay. it's got this stigma on it of it being such a heavy deal, big problem. And I like when our show did, just showed therapy for being something that was really normal and healthy. And I think because so many young women related to Brooke especially, that had to have made an impact in culturally just how we started viewing ourselves and our mental

process as we grow up. Certainly made it less weird for me. but I've always loved therapy. I think I was part of that generation where it wasn't like, oh, she's in therapy? What's wrong? What's going on there? Just like, yeah, going to therapy. Well, I think when people started to make that shift and think about it more along the lines

of being like the gym for your brain, you know, we're expected to take care of ourselves physically, you know, save off heart disease and keep your cholesterol low and all the things that are like on the commercials for whatever heart medication comes on every time we're watching like a sports game. And eventually I think when people started to talk about, okay, well, if you're going to take care of your body, why wouldn't you take care of your mind? You know, that's really the most important part of you. I think that really helped destigmatize it like you're saying, rather than thinking, oh, something's wrong with this person. It's like, oh, I actually love that you're in therapy. It's like a prerequisite for me if I'm going to date

somebody. I'm like, who's your, who's your therapist has a relationship? Like, what's the deal? How long you've been going? How long you've been going? I was going to say, yeah. Because, like, if you're not, if you're not in therapy, it's a no for me, dog. How long have you been working? Yeah. That's so true. Ashley, you wrote a book, didn't you write a book on, like, on mental health and? Yeah, it was like a self-help book. Yes. It was fun. And there's a lot of good advice in there. I will say it is a self-help book written by a 21-year-old. Look, everybody's got different stages of awareness of what they experience. I mean, I'm sure you had plenty to offer. Yeah, I think I did. Looking back, some of the things were

like really ridiculous. But you know what? I also gave, I'll stand by this forever. I gave really good tips on how to trim your own bangs. I know how to do it. I know how to do it. And it's never failed. Like I've had, when I was on the flash recently, they're like, we need to trim your bangs. I was like, nope, I do that. And they're like, we don't trust you. And I was like, well, no, it's fine.

You're like, here's the thing. You're a stranger to me. I don't trust you. I know my face. Yep. If you've been doing it for a long time, you're the pro. But to piggyback on that yet, there, well, I don't think. something I learned definitely from watching One Tree Hill back is like you may have known your

face for however many years, but they're the professionals who can look at your face for five minutes and know and do everything better than you ever could. And like, I mean, sure, there's sometimes where you're like, oh, that can't be right. That can't be it. I got a stylist once for the, I don't know what it was the VMAs or something and he brought clothes that I I think that they were just like

somehow like Esenem Couture like it was like I'm not I know this is like a young people thing but like that cannot be right this can't be right this can't be for me maybe for someone else

but not for me. Yeah, but you You know, I think it's cool when you have ownership of whatever trait. Like, to your point, I can't do my makeup the way professionals do. People are always like, what tricks have you learned? And I'm like, nothing because I'm like, my brain is popping around in the chair. I'm on Instagram or like reading lines in a chair. Yeah, we're running our lines all morning. Like, that's what we're doing.

But like the way you feel about your bangs is the way I feel about my eyebrows. I just, I don't let anyone touch them. I'm like, no, no, I do that. You can do everything else, but I do those, don't come near them. So it's kind of cool that you feel that way about your bangs. I wouldn't trust myself to trim bangs, but the two times in my life I've cut them, it's just been not a good idea for me. So maybe that's why.

Like for you, they really are so cool and cute. And if you're the, if you are the president of the bangs, I can get behind that. president of the bangs she's like this is my it depends what length you're going if I'm going curly yeah yeah well that oh gosh but once somebody can do your eyeliner right

I'll just go for it although I get creeped out when they do the inner the water line oh yeah the water line I can't I don't know anybody who isn't like you can't screw it up but like it's also trippy to have somebody that close to your eyeball yeah that's another one you might want to do yourself yeah well usually there is heavy eyeliner involved in female tv villains so we should we should transition to our fan question here to start wrapping up the episode this is from max who is asking who do you think is the

worst villain this season nanny carey or victoria i say victoria because it's more insidious. I do. I agree. I love that. I was about to say, I mean, Victoria is certainly an emotional villain, but she's not a murderer, but maybe emotional villainry is worse. I don't know. Yeah, it's emotional abuse. Yeah, it's more long-lasting trauma. Like, Carrie's a, Carrie's psychotic and crazy, but she's not a, to me, it's not a mark of a true villain. She's just kind of a sick, she's just a sick person. But a villain. But a villain, is much more pathological, is much more calculated, and has just a long history of abuse, yeah, and manipulation.

And I would definitely put that award in Victoria's lab. Same. Well, we solved that problem. Easy peasy. I like that answer. Just co-sign it? Done. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television. vision history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating

the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare. And frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Should we spin a wheel, guys? We got to spin a wheel. And we do an honorable mention, Ashley. So every episode of Drama Queens,

we have a wheel that spins like in your high school yearbook, most likely too. So here we go. You can read this one. Who is most likely to go on Love Island or be on The Bachelor. Now, this is going to be most likely, too, from Tree Hill, the world of Tree Hill, which character?

And then who in real life do you think, from our show, who in real life? On Love Island. Love Island or the Bachelor? I mean, Deb, why is she always the answer? I feel like, I don't mean to throw shade or anything, but I think she would be the winner of the Golden Bachelor. Like, she is so charming and beautiful. I think she could also kill it on the regular Bachelor. She's a good-looking lady.

She is. Who in real life? In real life. I mean, Stephen Coletti was on Laguna Beach. Yes. That's a good point. Isn't he our answer? No, that's a great girl.

Yeah. Yeah, he did. He basically did like high school Love Island. He did. also congratulations to stephen because he just got engaged but were he to be single he would be such a good contestant on one of those shows yes yes because like he knows the ends and outs and he's charming and he's funny they need to write that into uh everyone's doing great their tv show on hulu they need to write that storyline in that he goes he gets off like

he can't get arrested but he gets uh offered a job on a reality show that he's like oh i don't want to take this and then ends up going on my island i can't wait to start that group chat today and be like so we came up with an idea yes season four everyone's doing great yeah yeah so good god i love that show uh well who do we have for honorable mentions today oh man we got to meet uh james's um Nathan's coach is it not clay no um that's rob what's the guy the guy who was he was talking to who he was on our show so much after this the blonde guy i think it was bobby was bobby was bobby because they introduce him he's like mister whatever and he goes bobby it was fun to see him although i don't know if he made enough of an impact for honorable

mention uh for me probably it goes to paul with the i hate the woods like that was just such a great moment. He wins the episode for me. Honestly, my honorable mention has to go to Tori because she did such an amazing job with such an insane storyline. And even the way she wakes up essentially from the dead and has to do that creepy little laugh. That's so hard to sell. It's so hard to sell. And she did it. And I was like, she was giving me major Anthony Hopkins, you know. Silence of the Lamb's vibes with that weird sound he would make. Like her laugh was just so weird and specific. And I was like, Tori DeVito, someone give you, she needs a trophy.

I don't know which one, but she needs a trophy for this. We should make her one. We should get her trophy and send it to her. Don't you think? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we're giving the boys a season four storyline for their show and we're sending

Tori a trophy done and done. Love it. You know, I love a little homework. Yes. Ashley, thank you so much for coming to hang out with us. and talk about Sam. Thank you for joining us today, babe. It was so fun.

It was great to see you guys. So I'll see you both soon. It's always so good to see you. Next episode, everybody, season six, episode six, choosing my own way of life. Whatever could it be? Dun, done. Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-TH or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartreed. come see you next time we're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different, but Native Culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.