Drama Queens - The Great Betrayal • EP510

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Nanny Carrie strikes again and is causing all the drama! And, why can't Nathan be honest with anyone? Hilarie, Sophia and Joy felt all the emotions watching this episode… jealousy, anger, frustration. Find out which Drama Queen almost threw their shoe at the screen! Plus, the girls discuss Rachel's return and a few real-life stories on why background checks aren't always a bad idea.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, family, drama queens here. As you know, our union Sagafra is on strike. Now, we are no strangers to pushing back against imbalances and abuses of power. It is the very basis of our podcast here. So we're reclaiming a really pivotal chapter in our lives. We are in full support of the strike as well as the writer's strike. And we've checked in personally with multiple representatives and have had our teams do the same so that we maintain an active line of communication. Right now, we have been given the green light to honor our I-Heart contract, but we are taking this walk down memory lane in an old school way and encourage you to do the same. Bust out those DVDs, okay? We've signed thousands of box sets so we know you have them.

Get together with friends and have watch parties like we did back in the day. This community has always been supportive and proactive whenever we've been in a tough spot. and this moment is no exception. We are grateful to you and encourage all of you to post your pictures with your box sets and use those hashtags SAG After Strong and WGA Strong, and we're going to post your pictures in our feed. Let folks know that you support the artists

who bring you your favorite shows like One Tree Hill. And if you're able, please donate to the Entertainment Community Fund. Our fans are the very best fans. So thank you. And thank you to our reps at SAG After. for helping us navigate this complicated moment. We are so proud to be union members. Now, on to the drama.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Chearing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl.

You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. Welcome to drama queens Oh boy Well listen I think this is a perfect example Of why we have to pay writers

Because I'm sure this was a first draft Like this was And you carried it Joy You carried this first draft so hard Because it's like It's the big fight between Nathan and Haley about Nanny Carey

like all of a sudden all the information is coming to light and Carrie's like, girl, he loves me. He doesn't even love you and he kissed me and it is heinous and you carried it. Thank you. Yeah. There was a lot to handle in this episode, a lot of juggling, a lot of like, man, I don't know if I would be as calm as Haley was when Nathan came home. If that was like the day after I had found my husband in the shower with the nanny. Oh, I don't know about that. So just as a recap, let's talk about, we're talking about season five, episode 10, running to stand still, air date March 4th, 2008.

Sophia, see if any of this rings a bell. Brooke invites Owen to New York for a glimpse into her business, close over bros, and finds Rachel in her apartment in a devastating state. That was devastating. Haley reels from a devastating blow to her marriage. There is a lot of devastation. What we're calling the shower? A devastating blow? Okay.

That's what Carrie wanted to call it. While Nathan and Lucas muster their courage to attend Dan's parole hearing. And then randomly, a major record label takes an interest in Paya's recording artist, Mia. Did you just say Paya? Did I? No, and Mia. Peyton and Mia? Pia is the ship.

I feel like the Peyton Mia stuff. is a totally different TV show. We were just being Zainy. Like, everybody else is dealing with horrible shit and we're over there

doing some like, you know, saved by the bell episode. Even Quentin's life is changing. Oh, yeah. Because it was his hand and like, yeah,

everybody else is dealing with really heavy stuff and here are, you guys were in noises off. It was running around like, I don't know what. This guy's crazy. So just to

like a reminder. When the episode opens, Haley is driving home from the library. It picks up at the same night as the last episode left off. Nathan and Jamie get home first. Haley's in her car like, baby, you will not believe this. And he's like, I love you so much. I'll see you at home. And then it's crazy to me that all of this happens over the course of 24 hours. Yeah. Yeah, 10 minutes later. So I remember, okay, I remember shooting that scene. We were on a stage that they had set up just Nathan and Haley's bathroom in, which was never their bathroom again. I think maybe one other time, but otherwise we always had our bathroom off the bedroom.

So that was strange. It was a completely different set. And if you watch the episode, you'll see. I mean, if you watch the future and this one. But it was one of those where it's like it's a closed set, but. how closed is it because people seem to always find their way onto the set when there's a girl in a shower and there's monitors everywhere yeah monitors everywhere so poor tory i mean she took it like a champ and i wasn't there for most of it because they did have a lot of close-ups and things that were they shot in the

shower before i got there um but i also remember feeling like and i watched that back and i was like did i hurt tory i really hope i didn't i kind of want to text her while we're, because I grabbed her by the back of the head and like shoved her out of the room. You flung her out of the room. Oh, I really, I need to text her and ask her if she remembers that scene. I really hope I didn't. She sold it really well if that was just a stunt. I wanted the camera to chase her though, Joy. I wanted to see like her body sprawled out on your bedroom floor. Just like, naked, wet. Oh, man. But I did feel kind of, I felt. I felt jealous. I remember feeling that going in. I was like, this is not okay. Isn't that weird how we know

it's not real, but every cell in our body is like, fight. It's real. Get mad. Adrenaline. There's also something to that, I think, that's really interesting because you, it's not necessarily your jealousy, but like, you do become the steward of your character. You do. have feelings about where she goes and how she's treated. You know, I remember having issues with storylines being, you know, thinking to myself, Brooke Davis does not deserve this. And then I go, this is insane. Like, what am I, what am I saying? But you do really want to, you want to defend these women. I mean, we were with them as them for so long. And I don't know, that kind of a betrayal, I mean, in the great love story of our show, that would have been a hard pill to

swallow, I think. Yeah, after, you know, five years of being tied up with attached at the hip. Yeah. Yeah. My armchair theology with some of this, too, is that as, and I don't know how you guys are in your real life about this, but for me, especially when I was younger, acting really was a spaced, like kind of the only space I allowed myself to really be vulnerable because it's like the risk isn't real, but you can experience the feeling of taking risks and being really raw and real and vulnerable without there ever actually being any real stakes, like there would be in real life. And so I think when, yeah, I think when things happen in storylines with characters that I was playing for a long time.

It hit on that nerve of I know it's not real, but this is like my one safe space to be horrible. Don't ruin it. It's so dumb. The feeling I remember is like they put us through

all these different scenarios and that's what TV is. It's like, what's the worst thing we can throw at this person? And Peyton certainly experienced her fair share of that. And I remember this overwhelming feeling of how could you do this to me? And I would feel it about like the writers. Like how could you do this to Peyton? But I would have to apply it to the actor in the scene. Like why do you

keep hurting her? Why do you keep hurting me? And so it's like there's very real stuff going on in the production that makes you feel like, is this a dig at me or is this the character? Because that line got really blurry, I think, for a lot of us in these later years. And so, yeah, that feeling of, like, are you punishing me? Is this punishment for something? Is it personal? What's real? What's not real?

I don't know anymore. Well. Well, and Joy, you said something when we started to talk about this, that you don't know that you would have been that calm. You know, had you found your husband and the shower with the nanny. Like, we were so young. Had you ever been through a betrayal like that? Or were you having to guess? So you were having to guess.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, I guess I was thinking, well, they're married. There's the, you know, the commitment is strong and deep there. And there has to be some level of, like, of course, she's hurt and disappointed, but she has to try and listen. That's fair. So I was trying to be, I guess, fair. But, man, I don't know if I found my husband in the shower with somebody else, I don't think the next morning I'd be like having a relatively calm conversation. I don't think that would happen at all. So it bugs the shit out of me that, like, because we have to go to, like, a commercial break, people don't just have full conversations. It's like Nathan's saying things, but he's only saying snippets. He's like, you don't understand. I didn't want her. And it's like, it's not what you think it is.

Tell me what it is then. Please finish. Tell me that you thought it was me coming into the shower. And when you turned around, it was this psycho that is fixated on you. Why is that so hard? Say the words. Say it. Yeah. Because boys are bad at communication.

And then say she started to be inappropriate with me. I was about to tell you that we needed to do something about it because I had spoken to her about not speaking to me the way she was. And then she said she'd be different. And then she hit on me again. And literally that I was about to tell you one night. And she walked in and said she was quitting. And I thought, you know what? Yeah. Good. She's leaving. I don't need to, I don't need to ruin how my wife and my son feel about this person and all just make sure

she's not in our house anymore. There's so many things he could have said to you. Yeah. Instead, he said, he said, I wasn't into her. Okay. Seems like you were. If you let that go for so long. You watch me swim naked.

Ooh. The trajectory of that too, I mean, if we're, do you guys want to bounce around? Do you want to, like, go one storyline at a time? Girl, listen, this episode. episode is no rules. Man, oi. All right, well, I'll just finish this one out then because it, this was the episode where Jamie drowns in the pool and it was such a big deal.

You know, the fighting and getting him to float upside down in the pool was the whole thing. And, you know, he did, you know, Jackson was awesome. I can't believe they had him do that. Like, yeah. Like, I can't believe his mom was like, sure, sure. That's a big episode for a little kid to be yelling, I hate you at. someone like even as an actor just to have your child yelling that yeah i don't know how i feel about that um at their mom but then yeah doing the doing the dead float i think he had a lot of fun doing

the dead float but it was hard for me to watch it because i had a dog drowned and like i had that basically exact experience with an actual pet and so it was very very difficult uh to watch I forgot about this completely. But then Haley's holding her son, who's just recovered from drowning, and then she says the words, I want a divorce right while she's holding him to, man, I was like, who wrote this and thought this was okay? I just could not. I remember on the day having a very hard time making that make sense.

I still can't. I thought you did. Yeah, I thought you made it make sense. like that was he had taken your attention one last time Nathan had taken your attention one last time and this time it was a matter of life or death for your son like he is a constant distraction to what you should be focusing on and I could feel that like grow the fuck up energy coming from Haley like that was an important thing because these boys do have Peter Pan qualities that yeah super cute I could never date boys my own age

because I'm totally grossed out by them because of those Peter Pan qualities and I could see Haley's exasperation just like I'm done I'm done yeah that very typical archetype of the person who centers every situation on them

who puts themselves in the center of the ring every time all the time and you just go eventually you can't keep saying sometimes I need to be in the center. Eventually you have to say, I can't be in the ring with you anymore. Yeah. When he said to Haley, Haley's like, you know, everything's about you. And when he says to Haley, everything I do is for this family, girl, I almost threw my shoe. I was pissed because I was like, wait, when she got into Stanford and you got basketball and then

she still didn't get to go to Stanford, or when she gave birth to your baby, because you didn't use protection. Yeah, or you sat in your wheelchair and moped for like a really long time instead figuring out how to like get, get up and go to physical therapy and work through everything and find a new job and find, you know, find a way to still keep going in life because people suffer and that's just part of life. Like, you're not special. Haley spent her pregnancy with Deb right out of rehab. Like, let me take care of your crazy in-laws real quick as a teenager. Yeah. Say it louder. Girl, I'm just, I, I was. I was. mad and he's got a good heart we love nathan it's not that we don't love nathan it's just

always have to grow up at some point everybody has to grow up but you know it's time if anything we catch for always like glossing over nathan's faults and like picking on lucas so here you go we have a list kids at home don't worry friends we have lists i think it's such a good representation though of that very real dynamic in relationships where two people can be living in the same house having completely different experiences. Like this person thinks the room is red and this person thinks the room is purple. And like, you have no idea

the other person has a different feeling. But in Tree Hill, those are the only two-color rooms that exist. I obviously was thinking about yours first, but it really is interesting to see them modeling these dynamics that, I mean, you know, there's a million country songs written about this shit and not getting it right because they are a couple who's gotten it right so much and who we've idealized so much it as I don't know as a as a viewer I kind

of get excited even though I on the one hand feel your feeling of like why would you do this to us on the other hand I'm like it's kind of cool when you see them screw up it's cool when you see them not have all the answers and not be perfect yeah it's true it's good storytelling that part I think it was also easier for me to be mad at Nathan because he had a terrible haircut in this episode and I was mad at the haircut the whole time. Love you. And I was just like, I don't like this one.

Grow that shit back out. It wasn't. It wasn't my fave either. Isn't it easier to be mad at a character when you're like, that outfit's dumb? I hate that. You look stupid. He looked just so mopey and sweaty

and, like, mad, and he had too much product on his hair. I hated it. Yeah. It's one of those days. Well, you know who else had a pretty crazy look in this episode? Was Dan with the handlebar mustachees in prison? If by crazy, you mean awesome. I love Paul with that handlebar.

I thought it was great. Prison Paul is hot. Which is good. It's a good look. It's pretty wild. It's pretty funny to see him like that, but I know he was having fun with it. Well, that's it. He had total freedom just to be like, I'm going to be a freak.

Yeah. know. Yeah, if you guys are bringing me back on a recurring basis, I'm just going to do whatever the hell I want. He seems like he's more free now. I think, and I think maybe it's because of the fact that they had, I think at this point they had switched him to a recurring instead of series regular. And which basically that just means folks that you're not bound to live there as a local. They bring you in and out based on the episode they want to hire you for. So, um, there There's just a little bit more freedom to say no to things if you want. And I think maybe the autonomy, the feeling of autonomy, to say no when he wanted to,

made him feel more free because it's coming out in his work, too. You can just see it in his eyes. He's being more playful with the character. Yeah, but this is pretty good. What do we think about Dan getting parole? Oh, my God. Well, listen, hey, Sof's got a jump. She's got someone bang in our door.

You go, baby. We're going to talk about Dan. I'm sorry, guys. Talk all this shit. We're going to talk all this shit. We love you. Okay, I love you. Bye.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose. and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, like we said, there's no rules this episode. We're fucking winging it, which I hope everyone at home is too. Should we start a drinking game?

Yeah. All right. When you hear us say, Nanny Carey. I'll jump in for Sof, because one of my favorite Sophia. quotes is what I will say. What I will say. So every time this will be an ode to Sophia whenever you hear when I will say. We'll take a little shot in honor of her. For me, if I deflect from anything emotional with like a terrible joke or just something inappropriate, you can drink. Oh man. Let's start the list. Yeah. I don't do feelings well. And thankfully, Peyton has zero feelings in this episode,

which is so great for me. Well, let's see. Listen, I did love what I will say is that I loved, I loved Peyton taking charge in a new way. And I think for some reason, watching you in this episode right now, I kind of was able to look, I had this like bird's eye picture of everything Peyton's gone through over the last four seasons, five seasons, and how she's grown. And just honestly to see you behind that desk, making real decisions, standing up for yourself with douchebags and not from a place of like, I got to stand up for myself, but actually just being dropped into your body and being a woman, there's nothing to prove. She's just, I mean, there's insecurities and there were clearly like, how do I figure this out? But it felt so mature. And that was really fun to see Peyton living in that space. It was weird timing though, right? Like we were in the library the night before. Peyton's all like, I love. love Lucas. And now I've got to deal with this, like, heaviness. And literally the next day, like, not a reference to it. Just like, Mia, we got to figure this out. It was kind of, actually, that's true. Because the library was like all of Peyton's insecurities and immaturities on display at 11. And now she's just like, super boss, businesswoman, like, you know what,

it's all sorted out. I let that man go. He's going to marry somebody else. And now I'm focusing on my career. I guess that was it. So for all those. chicks at home that are like, Peyton's sabotage on every one of Lucas's relationships. Wrong. I'm just trying to get Mia on tour with Ryan Adams. Yeah, did that ever happen? No, I mean, I don't know, did it? Did we have him on the show?

I guess we're going to find out. I mean, I can't remember at all. I just love that set. I love that once we utilize the pool table with poor Kate Vogel, they were like, now we're going to use the pool table. every episode, but we're never letting Kate play pool again. Yeah, you just lined up those shots. Let me just tell you how this is going to go. Pop, pop, pop. Yeah, you'll be fine. Well, it was fun to have John back. Well, wait, what's his, his name's not actually John. I forgot the name of the actor.

But the guy playing the record label, like Zach. It was fun to see that banter again and see have that stress come back into Peyton's life. I loved him because he, he would just, he was a mature actor, right? He'd been doing this forever. Yeah. And all the insecurities that we had about asking questions or not knowing how to say something or what to do with our bodies. Like, he did not have those same problems. His feet up on the desk was totally a him choice. Oh, great. He, for the life of him, could not say Mia Catalano's last name. And he would just be like, Mia. which for the longest time I thought was a choice. I thought he was doing it as a choice in the scene. Like, yeah, he doesn't even care what her last name is. They're like, no, you have to say her name. Maybe it was the first time we were actually like hearing her name.

He was great and I loved episodes like that because when you have multiple scenes in the same space with the same actor, you do all your shit in one day and then you're free. The whole rest of the episode. So I always look back on these episodes just like, yeah, I must have a lot of fun that week. Was it fun, nice to just have a break from all the Lucas drama? Yes. To be able to be in working women mode?

Yeah, and I think it was so much more realistic to where we were in real life. You know, like at that point, we were all in relationships, but like we were also all hustling. We were all really focused on like work. What are we going to do next? What are we going to do on hiatus? How do I make this work? In season five, you know, we signed six-year contracts. And so you're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And it's like, oh, shit, I've got to line myself up so that I have a place to go after this. So I did feel a lot of that frantic energy of like, oh, make it count, make it count, make it count. And I, you know, was starting a production company. And it's fun to watch like a kid think that they're doing grown-up business talk. you know and you're just like oh that's so earnest i wonder how many people i had production meetings with for my production company that were just like she's trying that's so cute she's learning i don't think that was ever the case you were always you always had great vision and really like knew what you wanted i i mean i always took you seriously when you were talking about it

especially yeah and if anybody wasn't taken as seriously they wouldn't say it to our face um they'd wait until we left the room. No, and I love that Kate is like getting to do more. She's getting to be really, I forgot that it was a Peyton Mia set up with John. I totally forgot that too. That was great. Yeah, I was just really like, really, this chick's going to go off and pout? Like, well, Peyton can't get a break.

This is crazy. Yeah, she sold it. She was fantastic. And I like how much time I was getting to spend with her. because I do know, you know, in all these years since, that she had been warned to stay away from me. Oh, right, Hill. Yeah. And so, but all of our scenes are together, and we're clearly having a great time.

And so I'm excited to have Kate on at some point and get her perspective, because she was like a little kid. I was just thinking that. Like, what a strange time to be, I mean, can you imagine being that young? I think she was 19. Or 20? She was 19. She was still a teenager. Man.

Here, let's get, we want to put you on a major TV show. You're going to be with all these chicks who are older than you. Watch out for some of them. It gets treacherous there. And she wasn't even a famous singer at that, like, she was just trying to, she wasn't an actress. She was a singer who was, I mean, what a bizarre thing to have happened to you at 19 years old to be out singing and have somebody be like, you want to be on a TV show and go, uh. Uh-huh. Yeah, sure.

And now it's full storylines and she's learning how to act from some of the best in the biz just hanging out with Hillary Burton on set and just like watching everything happen. I mean, and she's on this huge show and she gets to sing on the show and it's all this storyline created about her.

She handled it. Amazing. She did. And she learned she came in with so much humility and excitement and just wanted to learn. It was great. Yeah, she never had any ego.

Like, I have to imagine, well, having worked at MTV and dealing with, like, young musicians. Like, there are a couple who shall remain nameless, who you know I don't like, who had such an ego as armor. And Kate Vogel never had that man. She was just always like, hey, cool, do you guys like tea? You want to go make tea together at craft service? And also, these are good chocolates and, like, you know, like, she was just so easy to be with. Yeah. It's so fun to see some to hang out with somebody who has wonder, especially for, oh, that's the perfect word for her. Yeah, because especially when you've been working in this business for so long or any business where you, it's become a business for you in a lot of ways and you know, kind of you know too much in the ins and outs to be around someone who really just has wonder about it. It's exciting. It reminds me, it reminds me why I fell in love with all of this in the first place when you get to be around somebody who's experiencing it for the first time.

Yeah. She was our band. like she had the little baby deer legs at the beginning when she first started and was a little nervous with those big eyes and just like oh cool neat so great well i loved that storyline i loved the setup even though it really was a strange in this episode it like it didn't it just didn't fit at all it's because we shot all our stuff in one day and we weren't interacting with anyone else so we had no idea what the tone of the whole rest of the episode was and also like in what world Because Haley, not get on the phone that night and call all the chicks that she was just locked in the library with. A hundred percent.

These writers had no idea what girlfriends are like. Like, it doesn't matter if you just had the biggest blow up ever. Haley is going to get on speed dial and be like, get over here. Bring the rosé. The only thing I could think of maybe why Haley wouldn't do that is that she does. has spent a lot of time trying to, trying to, I don't know that building up an image is the right word, but she, I think she really constantly feels like she's in a place of mothering everyone and sort of taking care of and giving advice and telling, you know, it's like it's, it's a character

flaw. And so to be the person in the position where everything's falling apart, it's not working the way she thought it would, it's all, and to have to admit, like, actually, I don't have it all together. That might have been really, really hard for her. That might have felt like a lot of shame or something. I mean, it's embarrassing. It is embarrassing. But this are your best girlfriends. Or call Lucas. Like that, if that's not a breaking point, what is? Right? Like, that's the breaking point. We were like, I can't, I can't handle it. Or call Lucas. The child is asleep in that house. The child heard you yell, get the fuck out. I thought that too. It was Wait, the kid doesn't get up?

Yeah. Oh, Jamie totally saw her, like, naked run across the house. Totally. There's no way he didn't. Everyone in that house has seen Nanny Carey naked. Damn. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about Nanny Carey going to visit the school the next day because...

What school allows? First of all, where was he going with his backpack and his jacket? Somebody just, did I just drop him off? And then he just walks into this huge campus with no... That's not how it worked. Teacher, no, no. Yeah, no. And then this strange woman just gets to approach a kid near a parking lot.

That was all really wonky. Yeah, I mean, you have, I mean, I guess maybe if she was on the emergency contact form because she had been dropping him off for the last month, but how much time has gone by? It's still like, you know, school just started. Haley just had her first day. The basketball team just, I, none of this makes sense. one of those episodes, I'm going to get crazy about the details, because even the big stuff doesn't make sense. But that's the first thing I would do probably is call the school the next

morning and take her off the emergency contact list. I would call me a restraining order. Oh, yeah. I would work every little legal angle I could to make sure that chick vanished. That is my worst, it's not my worst nightmare, but it's a pie up on the list of having your kid emotionally taking advantage of at that young age. You know, can you imagine when you think about, like, your kids that young, if somebody was, somebody who was in your home was just, like, insidiously trying to pit them against you? Undercut you. Yeah.

No, I don't like when, like, grown-ups talk to kids, like, confidants. That's a weird flex. If you don't have friends to talk to, you've got the internet. Just get on a chat room or some weird shit. But, like, don't dump your stuff on kids. And Carrie being like, your mommy doesn't like me. She's sending me away. I'm real picky about who my kids talk to.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. That's really scary. And she's, man, this is why you have to vet the people that you put around your kids. Girl, can I just tell you that my husband made so much fun of me. Because any time I would hire someone to do work, any house we've ever lived at, he would joke and he's like, oh, you're going to go full Burton, aren't you? And I would vet the shit out of people on the internet.

And I would know where they went to middle school, high school, who their friends are, how many times have been divorced, you know, like, I would know everything before I'd let them in. And so when we first moved here to the farm, I needed to get the house painted because I was peeling and stuff. And he was teasing me about it. And I was like, you know what? Okay, fine. I won't vet the person this time and we'll see how it goes, right? And so I felt like I was finally like relinquishing some paranoia.

Timeout. Did you hire the person or did Jeff hire the person? No, I hired the person. And it was just based on you, went on your gut or you just made a random call. Did you meet the person? I interviewed three different people. Okay. And so you just like went on a gut instinct. And this one showed up dressed professionally, had like a portfolio, had a really like

business quote. And what I have learned since my late 20. monies is that your trade guys shouldn't be like, they should be a nightmare. The inside of their truck should be a mess. Like, they should just be like a total disaster because they'll do the best work. This guy was like so official. And so then like weird things started happening and like the job was taking three times as long as it should have and like, yeah, people weren't showing up.

Turned out he was just painting the entire property by himself and like nothing was up. And then I was in, like, the old ramshackle farmhouse that was originally on the property here, and I hear a buzzing in a drawer down there, and I find a random cell phone. And I'm like, what is this? No one's supposed to be inside this house. Like, why is there a phone in here? And I am holding on to it. And then, like, I don't know who it belongs to, but I'm super creeped out and it's it's his phone and I'm like it's one thing if it's in the house but like why is it in this drawer and like what's going on it was so weird kind of like an abandoned house because it's being worked on okay yeah I had been going down there by myself just like doing renovations

and spare time and stuff yeah and I went and I looked him up and he had been arrested for embezzling at like a different company and I think he did some prison time like but it was the one time the one time I didn't do my homework so women out there especially women out there do not feel guilty about about checking everyone out just go ahead and sign up for one of those old websites that allows you to do background checks on people it is worth it yes and ask and ask invasive questions that are I mean professionally appropriate but like go ahead. Yeah. You ever been arrested? Yeah. That should be the first question you ask everyone whether you're dating or you're working to get. You ever been arrested? Hillary, I came home once and found

it. I hired a housekeeper on care.com and I did, you know, I did a little research, but I also was like kind of overwhelmed. I was like, I was Haley when she was overwhelmed. And there were a few little, there were a few little things leading up like, I was kind of scared to talk about this. Yeah, that's it. It's like, who's listening right now? But like, she, she was, she started following me on Instagram and then, like, like, texting me comments about my Instagram posts. And I was a little like, okay, I mean, it feels a little boundary, but, you know, whatever. But she was, the thing was, she was about 60. So it wasn't like a young girl who was, and I thought, oh, I don't know, maybe she's bored, whatever. And then there were a couple other

little things that were red flags, and I wasn't sure. And then I came home one day, and she's cleaning the house wearing my shoes. What? What? Wait, did she take her shoes off and put your shoes on? She did indeed. Like, what kind of shoes? Are we talking like crocks or heels or like what?

I want every detail. No, she was hot. And so took her sneakers off and put on my sandals. And she'd gone in my closet and just like took out my flip-lops and was wearing them. And it was like, oh, I'll have you no mind. I was just hot. So you, I do, I do, I do, I do mind. I do mind you putting my shoes on.

Because, oh boy. I look at everything like an iceberg. Like, that's just what you could see. This is what I'm saying. Yeah. We don't know what was under the surface. Like what she was doing when you were gone. Right.

That's what freaks me out. But anyway, there's, there's just, you just never know. And you got to vet people. And clearly, Nanny Carey was not vetted. You know what? That's why Haley didn't call her girl. friends, because we all said, yes. This chick is no Bueno. No Bueno. Ding. You would have called Lindsay, though. Lindsay would. Lindsay had her, like, sat across from her at dinner. I would have called

Lindsay or Lucas. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But it's also, I don't know. I guess if you're, if, again, like if she's trying to hold everything together and she's trying to be, do everything right to admit that she's not, probably would be hard. But anyway, I'm excited to see where this goes because I remember how crazy this storyline gets. And it's, we're in the, we're on the route to some real intense drama. But nothing in this episode was, besides Jamie drowning,

was as intense as finding Rachel in Brooks' hotel room in New York on heroin and... Right. it was such a weird I mean like even before that it just took such a weird turn because we were going from sort of this like frustration but also a little bit

of zany comedy with you and Kate into Brooke and Owen it's like cute flirty kind of fun then they go into her apartment in New York and it's all like cute and funny but as soon as they open the door then this like horror movie music starts all of a sudden out of nowhere and it's and what's hilarious is that the

Hard movie's music starts when the camera pans to all the dirty dishes. Right. Who is in here? It was like Goldilocks, man. Yeah. Like dirty dishes. Oh, God. No.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel. oddly like very traditional it feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for like hundreds of years you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence that's sierra teller ornellis who with rutherford falls became the first native showrunner in television history on the podcast burn sage burn bridges we explore her story along with other native stories such as the creation of the first native comic-con or the importance of reservation

basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I thought it was going to be Victoria in her apartment. That's what I thought. I thought she was going to open the. door and like Victoria would be having sex with someone or like just like you push me aside and

now I'm a mess. Yeah, for sure. But then we ended up seeing, I mean, I was really actually really happy to see DeNeil even though I didn't like seeing her like that. But it was nice to see her back on the show for a minute. I couldn't wait for the rest of the episode to watch her work, which was beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. It's like DeNeil was unafraid to just be messy. And I think, that there had been this expectation of who Rachel was. Like, Rachel's always going to be the put-together prissy bitch, you know. And DeNeil, they threw her this curveball, and it, you know, does feel punishing in a way. Yeah, I thought that.

You're the mess. And she did such a great job. She just leaned into, like, the performance. She was like, you can't have that power for me. Sure, you want to give me a storyline? I'm going to show up, even if it felt like there was some, uh, a, uh, a, And I hate when my vocabulary words disappear. Even if there was some motive that wasn't pure in that,

she just took the power right back and was like, I got this. Let me take care of this storyline. Because her beauty had been powerful, right? And had been powerful in front of the camera and behind the camera. And she had removed herself from the situation, taking her power with her. And so when she's brought back and she stripped of that. thing. She just shows up with a whole another set of tools. She's like, watch

this, bitches. I love her. It was so good. She looked and she really felt like a little girl. I felt like I was watching. She looked just like her daughter. She looked just like JJ. Yes. Yes.

No makeup. Totally unashamed. Totally leaning into the raw vulnerability of it. Not performing, not trying to perform as a person. who was struggling. She just sat in it. Man, that was such a good performance.

Well, and also, the thing that struck me is that I have had to deal with addiction issues with people that I love in the past, right? And like getting them to rehab is super important. And when Owen, like, sets up the rehab situation, the first thing I'm thinking is like, how are they going to get a bed? You know, like, there's no room and facilities.

How is Brooke just going to take her somewhere on day one? And as I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, they have to get, they have to take her. They have to take her. DeNeil's performance convinced me, don't leave me alone. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, I can see how Brooke knows what the right thing to do. It's the right thing is to take her to rehab.

Like, heroin is not a thing that you get over at home. Right. Not a home project. But because Rachel is so vulnerable and so raw, like you said, when she says, don't leave me alone, that's the scarier thing. I mean, that's scarier than the drug is being left alone. Yeah. I hope she does end up, I think she does take her to rehab, but maybe it's in Tree Hill or some. Maybe she takes her someplace more local where she can be near her.

I can't remember. I just, and also heroin, like needles? Come on now. So intense. Pills were a thing back. Everybody's addicted to fucking pills. You know what I mean? Like that could have been a cleaner thing.

They went down the darkest road they possibly could. And then also like Owen's showing up and that it was like, are we in a cop drama right now? Are we? I don't understand what show I'm watching. He did great. I mean, Joe really showed up and leaned into the hero of it all. I'm going to save the day and, you know, pretending to be a junkie and all of it. Like, I get conceptually why it was made sense in maybe the writer's room.

They are like, oh, let's do this. Yeah, let's go there. I just didn't love the execution. Well, no, we had already tackled serious stuff with, like, the school shooting episode. Yeah, it's a lot. We've done serious subject matter on the show, and this felt like one of those serious things where they really didn't necessarily consult. like an expert or like a real

drug advocacy person. Totally. This is like the 90210 version of it. It's just like what? He's going to slap her

three times. The slaps? Oh my God. Those were really intense. Somebody's in like the Foley you're like mixing stage and they're just like adding like smackin a ham sound

on there so it sounds really intense. Like I don't think he He certainly didn't hit her to make that big of a noise in real life, but they added. No, of course not. They added that sound. I was like, yeah, what was that? And he was fully in it. And then the shower and like, come on, Rachel, come on.

Whoa. Yeah, just carry some Narcan, man. Beating the guy up. I think this was when Joe maybe was auditioning for True Blood. I wonder if the episodes coincided with this auditioning. He was like, okay, I have this other job that really needs to see me as like a super tough guy. He might turn into a werewolf in that shower. Any moment.

Any moment, Owen was going to turn into a werewolf. I'm 100% convinced. And him beating up the dealer, too, was so fun. Just, I mean, it was like, why didn't he just go into the hallway? Why did he bring him inside the apartment to do it? They've got one of those freight elevators. He could have beat him in the front. freight elevator.

Totally, yeah. But he brought him inside to where the two girls were. I guess maybe if there were cameras, he didn't want to end up getting arrested, maybe. I don't know. But I have to say, I will say. I will say. I will say. That when I watch Brooke in this episode and think about the trajectory of her, she, she does have her confidence in business.

that's where she her sweet spot is but we've seen her vulnerability with her mom and still kind of trying to figure it out with men and and but she's been living in her comfort zone of work and just have a guy come around that she can't manipulate and she can't not i don't not that i'm saying brook is manipulative but we all have our like little tricks in our 20s we have the bag of tricks yes totally and so her bag of tricks don't work on owen and i feel like being put in a position where she's totally helpless and realizing that there's a she needs to grow more like when you when you have that moment in life where you go oh there's a I'm being presented with an opportunity to grow into more maturity in a new way and I feel like he's a gets to be a he and Rachel get to be a vehicle for her in that as she's just observing all of this happening feeling helpless not knowing what to do and I feel like it really ties in with what's going on with her mom's And that when she starts to step into her own skin and step into that maturity, it's really going to affect her ability to also stand up to her mother and take kind of just take the reins and just accept like, you know, that's one of the hardest things for any girl to accept if you grow up having a mom that feels like you have to raise your mom instead of the other way around. And I think what I've observed about that is that at some point the role just has to.

to switch. You just kind of have to accept it and forgive and go, okay, I didn't get what I thought I should have in that space. But it's okay. And we're going to just switch this into something new. And I'm really looking forward to seeing her do that with Victoria. So anyway, it's a very long-winded way of saying I'm excited for Brooks future. I know what it's like to have your parents be like people are using you. You know what I mean? Your parents have control over you for a big chunk of your life. And when they tell you that something is a danger or that something is the wrong path, you're like, oh, yeah, of course, of course. And then you hit that point in adulthood where you're like, well, maybe it's not. Do you know what's best for me? Terrible to open myself up

to people. Maybe that, maybe like vulnerability is cool. Yeah. And to see Brooke go through that. And these two people who Victoria could absolutely, you know, characterize as leeches on her life, this friend who's a junkie, who was a terrible model that we had to fire. And then Owen, what's he ever going to be? He's an ex-addict bartender. These are people that can't offer Brooke Davis anything. They can't offer her anything material, but they can offer her everything emotional. and being able to identify that as a young adult is really important because some of the most important friendships you have

are going to be with people who aren't a rung on the ladder. Right, absolutely. Well, I love that for her. And I'm glad that Rachel's coming back to Tree Hill. Because we're going to have fun. Yeah. We had fun in that little apartment set because it was just a bunch of brassy chicks.

being naughty. I miss that. I miss that energy. We've gotten so far away from that with all the other new people that they brought in. And, you know, I get it. I mean, people have been watching us for four years, four and a half years. They wanted to start diversifying a little bit. But I do miss, I miss the three-girl energy that we watched a lot in the first few seasons. That was so fun. And I hope we're getting more of that coming up soon. We've got to get rid of all these husbands and boyfriends. I know. Send them packing for a little while. Well, Quinn's going through the same thing that Rachel's going through

just like a total identity loss. Crisis, yeah. Yeah. And that, I mean, my son, there's like a school jock thing at Gus's school and he doesn't participate in it. I mean, he does rec league basketball

because it's goofy. And like there's no, there's like nothing at stake. It's just fun and like you're farting around with your friends. But the seriousness of some of the sports stuff we talk about it.

And I'm just like, bud, if that's something that you want to do, cool. But I do know from doing my show, at least, that like a lot of addiction stems from high school sports. Because you push your body when it's in its growth phase. Interesting. And you get addicted to painkillers because you've got to have your ACL replaced. You've got to go to physical therapy. You've got to do like all this stuff to repair yourself. And I don't understand why we're pushing a little.

kids so hard. Yeah. We don't do that in theater, right? Like, no kid who does theater. Judy Garland may beg to differ. Oh, well. I'm talking like public school, high school theater. Those kids are going to rehab and getting put on Oxy and shit to get through.

No, they're not. It's a different kind of team sport. I do worry for someone like Quentin. The pressure to be excellent. You've got to be the best. And when everybody around you, you know, big fish, small pond, everybody around you is telling you you're the best, you're the best, you got to, this is your life, this is who you are. I mean, he's built his, clearly built his entire identity around basketball and his abilities

to be superior. Did you notice that Nathan spent more time talking to Quentin than he did his own wife? I didn't notice that. Yeah, he goes and he has a whole ass, like emotional conversation with Quentin and like feelings and all this. Meanwhile, his wife is sitting at home just like, I'm going to kill him. Yeah. That's interesting. Just deciding to not spend 100% of his energy.

I'm going to make a pit stop at the high school gym as a grown-ass man. Just talk to this kid I mentor for a second. Because I'm in such a great position to do that. That is really strange. Nathan fails. Nathan gets an F this episode. I'm mad at it. I did feel a little bit like James was just kind of bored with this episode.

I don't, not as not, I would never know that as a viewer watching an actor, but just knowing James, there were some moments. I was just like, you're bored, aren't you, buddy? My favorite moment, my favorite moment of Nathan is when he and Lucas are driving back from the parole board meeting. And Lucas is like, how could you do that? And Nathan's like, he's such a little kid in that moment because he's like, man, what are you talking about.

What do you do? What do you want me to do? Like he was just so like, I don't know. I don't really think about it. Why is everybody mad at me today? Yes. Yes.

I can't do anything right. Everybody's mad at me. No, he, what's with today today? Yeah, he just, everyone's pissed at him. And Lucas has like a great reason for being pissed at him, too. Like had Lucas and Haley joined forces? Oh, God. That would have been so good.

I would have paid money to sleep. have that line be in the script. Nathan walk out of the room just like throwing something down and being like, man, what is with today? Yeah, he just, he could not win. But the parole thing was weird because, you know,

like we've covered cases where people who are clearly innocent go up for parole and parole boards are like notoriously not into it, especially on like violent offenses if you're in there for like weed if you're in there for whatever they're like yeah all right

we're overpopulated get out um but if you shot your brother and you cop to it and now you're in this parole board hearing and you're like it's because he stole my girlfriend it's it's a little reverse psychology though that he's trying to do which is i belong in here do not let me out if for some reason you guys need the space and happen to decide I'm the one that needs to leave list I just promise open up a bed yeah like I'll do the best that I possibly can but truly like you should keep me I deserve to be in here oh hey so gross no the thing that they look for is remorse right like yeah like I can't live with myself because I did this and I have been volunteering I'm a teacher for other inmates now I'm a part of this church in

the prison you know like they're looking to see what your civic responsibilities have been in the ecosystem of the prison and things like that and there's just no fucking way that those boys would be in a room with him him not shackled to the chair you know like there's again yeah they didn't consult a drug expert we clearly didn't have a prison expert on our show but that would have been fun like can you imagine if they were like we've got to fly in the prison expert We've got some knowledge getting dropped on these kids right now. I thought Lucas's speech was effective. I did too.

I did too. It was nice to see him out of romantic drama zone also. Just to give him an opportunity to stretch a different muscle. And where's Lindsay? If she loves him so much, why isn't she comforting him? They didn't want to pay for another actor in the episode. It's either Paul or Michaela. Paul, they only had, they only had money for one.

And they had Danielle. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Anne Owen. All right. Look, we spent our money. Okay, okay.

Fine. Well, what did we miss? Anything? I think we got it all. I can't think of anything. You know who I miss, though? Barbara. I need some Barbara in my life.

I really miss Deb. I need some Antoine. Why wasn't Deb in the parole hearing room? Where was she? Oh, yeah. He's threatened her so many times. Come on. Why wasn't she there?

Karen should have had a letter that was read. Yes. I know. Oh, dropped the ball. Drop the ball. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going along. that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the more.

modern world. Influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Friends, thank you for listening to all that. We have some listener questions if you want to move on. All right. Carrie wants to know if your characters and their moms got a mother-daughter tattoo what do you think they would get oh your mom was real bohemian on this show yes yeah oh gosh I actually just got a text from best Armstrong a few days ago I love her uh I think she's uh we might both be at this 20 20th anniversary thing in Wilmington she's so great anybody's going

what would what would she get oh that's so good I feel like well Haley's already got her 23. Would it be weird if her mom also got the 23 as the tramp stamp? Honey, it looks so cute on you. I'm going to get it too. I feel like they'd get a little, like a little tree, like a matching. Maybe there's a tree over a, over a, I mean, well, I don't want to steal Peyton's Thunder at the one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but, you know, I was going to say over a gravestone, but I wouldn't want to still, like I could see Peyton getting a, getting a tattoo of some sort of morbid, that was in the grip. Yeah, it is a little macabre. I don't know. Yeah, maybe some sort of adventurous, like, or something from their travels, like a place that Haley, you know, to remind Haley that there is more of the world out there besides Tree Hill and to get out, because her mom was always trying to, was always traveling, you know, they left all the kids once they were old enough, got a trailer, sold the house,

and took off. That her mom had such a sense of adventure. Yeah. That I think Lydia would probably want to encourage Haley to get something that has to do with maybe maybe in like a little like a avion postage stamp or something something cute that's like travel get out there babe don't just get don't just stay here don't forget there's big wide world out there trail's fine but have you ever been to Santa Fe you know yeah you know get a little cactus there what about Peyton it's definitely a song lyric like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she only had her first mom around for eight years and then I think

probably filled in a lot of blanks there but her and Ellie for sure are going to some seedy tattoo parlor and being like... Like Ramones' lyrics or like... Yeah, probably like not a surf or something. You know, like, yeah, something obscure

for sure. Yeah. That's a no-brainer. And I like that for them. But where would Peyton get it? Because the thing is, I don't think Peyton wants people walking up to being like, what's your tattoo about? She would be like, I don't want to talk about it. Payton's going to put it in the most painful place possible.

I mean, all my tattoos are on my ribs. And everyone's like, oh, it's not a fun place to put them. And I'm like, but I want to be able to hide them for work. I don't need people to know my business. Yeah, she's going to put it somewhere super painful, like along her spine. The top of her foot. Oh, yeah, you've got that foot tattoo. And that is, that hurts.

I would not do that again. No, I put one on my hip And it was all fine And like the fleshy parts And then they got right to the hip bone And it was like Oh Yeah

Why are you doing this to me Okay, I'll give you your money Leave you can It's fine the way it is Hap done I can color it in with a marker every day It's fine I'll just draw it

Okay, what's our honorable mention Oh Hmm Trying to think of something Jamie's dead man's float was very... That was pretty good. Yeah, pretty convincing.

And it made my butt pucker. Like, as a parent, you see that, and it is, you can feel that visceral, like, yeah, that's awful. He did a good job. He really did. Yeah, I don't, there was no other guests, there was no other even, like, you know, when mouth kind of has a side thing or, I mean, there's just nothing else happening in the episode, so. I mean, Daniel's performance. Daniel, just being like, that was outstanding, truly.

Yeah, I mean, yes. For me, that was the most interesting thing in the episode. I loved, I loved what she did. And I could have watched, I could have watched a whole hour of her walking through that character arc. Yeah, right? So just like sitting on the couch and like actually talking to Brooke about how she got there. Yeah. Maybe we'll get that in upcoming episodes.

Spin off. What's next? Next episode, season five, episode 11. you're going to need someone on your side. All right, let's spin that wheel before we see you guys next week are most likely to is most likely to start up a conversation

with the person next to them on a plane. Oh, you know this is not me. Not it. Me either, me either. I'll lean into one. Like, man, if somebody wants to talk to me, I'm like, okay, I'm at, very, I try and be a little kind of hippie-dippy sensitive, like, maybe I'm meant to have a

conversation with someone. Okay. But I don't ever start one. No, it is not me. Who's starting a conversation? Bevin. I don't even know that Bevin. No, I don't think it's Bevin. Bevin will be polite. But she's a Southern woman. She's just like, I'll smile, but I don't want to do this. Okay. He's done by that. I think it's Paul. I think it's Paul. Johansson, 100%. Yes. It's Paul all day. Because Paul's like, I'm going to find what your weakness is. And I'm going to work on it with you for the next three to six hours. Yeah.

Well, it depends on his mood. He's a moody dude. And so it could be that he gets on the plane and he's like headphones. I don't want to be stuck in a conversation I don't want to be in. But yeah, I guess he could definitely go either way. What character, though? I don't know. He's the one to have the most, like, sincere conversation on a plane.

Yeah. I feel like Dan would also actually would be. quite likely to strike up a conversation with someone on a plane because he's always looking for an angle or, you know, do I need to know you or do I need to know you? Yeah, you know, even just to poke at people and like feel like the typical bully like I need to feel better about myself. I'm going to poke at you. I think she's hungry for experience. It's like, what's this experience going to be? Yeah. What can you add? What can I suck out of this? Yeah. Vampire. an emotional vampire that guy all right next week i hope things turn around for rachel we'll find out

i hope so too thanks for joining us guys hi hey thanks for listening don't forget to leave us a review you can also follow us on instagram at drama queens o t hush or email us at drama queens at iHeartradio.com see you next time drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different, but Native Culture is Alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other Native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.