Drama Queens - The Heart In The Lunchbox • EP618

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

The girls get into a very charming villain, an especially gnarly time period, a world class jab and Sophia opens up about a difficult battle she hasn't gotten over losing. Plus, find out why this episode in particular results in the girls getting made fun of the most!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

welcome back friends and welcome back to the states joy thanks so much thanks i'm glad you guys held down the fort uh while i was gone i missed you but i'm glad to be back and what an episode to come back to what an episode to come home to and also you poor thing to be so jet lagged for yeah i'm i'm okay i'm gonna survive but yeah it's the second day uh i took that flight from London to Nashville, the direct flight yesterday, and it's the one you really try and stay awake on because you land at 7 p.m. and you want to be able to actually fall asleep at night. So it was fine, but it got me, it got me the next day. Yeah, the second day hit. Yeah. Your body's like, what do you mean sleep? We're supposed to be awake right now and then vice

versa. So if I don't make a lot of sense today, y'all just can forgive me, please. Okay. So when this episode opened on The Sims, did you think you were hallucinating? Or were you like, have I clicked the wrong show? I did for a second. What is this? Why are we? Oh, wait, it's Tree Hill characters. Okay. This is definitely something. There was, I can't even, as soon as I saw the hospital. Yeah. It opened on the Sims. But as soon as I saw the hospital and then Dan's heart, I, the little beeper thing, I went, Oh, my God. I know you knew what episode it was. Guys, this is the episode we get talked about, well, I won't say talked about the most for.

I will say made fun of the most for. Yeah, that's accurate. It is none other than season six, episode 18, searching for a former clarity. The episode aired March 23rd, 2009. Lucas and Julian hit a setback with the production of the film when Julian's dad gets fired. Peyton and Haley helped Mia with her new

single brook must intervene when sam is arrested for stealing not sure she does it appropriately but we'll get to that and jamie discovers the truth about dan and uncle keith this episode there are such sweet moments in it and it's also such a doozy and yeah a dog eats a heart and everything is insane but first and foremost i have to say when it started on the sims i literally out loud said, why are we starting on the Sims? And then I said, why is Andy here? And then I realized it wasn't Andy. It was Dan. Oh my gosh. That's funny. But Dan's Sims animation to me looks like Karen's husband Andy. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. He did. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. I'm glad it was only briefly, though, the Sims thing. But it was cute. I like the idea of seeing things through Jamie's eyes,

which they seemed to do a lot of in this episode, just taking a look at, you know, yeah, you're right. So there were a lot of really poignant, meaningful moments. And then there were just bizarre dog eating hearts moments. But I liked it, I think, overall. I'm just thinking about this now. Like, if the dog eating the heart in the hospital was not in this episode, do I like this episode?

And I do. I do. Yeah. Here's the thing. There has to be a way for Dan to not get the heart. Yeah. The extreme choice of having a dog that's eaten pounds of weed so it's high and hungry. Eat the heart is, you know, a choice that was made. Strong choice. I just, it was so silly to me. Let's just get it over with. It like pulled me out because I was like, why is it in a lunch? lunchbox why isn't it sealed it should be hermetically sealed or whatever the term is for you know so it doesn't get contaminated and like all of the little things where I was like it's so far-fetched that I can't yeah I can't stop asking

questions instead of actually watching the scene but then I did have to wonder is that because we've been ridiculed for this for a decade and a half and so we're just ready to hate it I don't know no I think you're Right. I think they, the mistake that they made, in my opinion, was not building it up enough, not taking the time to show, like instead of starting on the Sims, which I appreciate the sentimentality of seeing things through Jamie's eyes. However, if we had started on the medic who was, whatever, coming in from a bender the night before and didn't seal the thing up properly. And we follow the case. And it's like, why is it, I have no idea why it was in a lunchbox. A lunchbox. I was like, what's happening? I don't know why, but if they had actually come up with plausible explanations for just, you know, when it rains, it pours, when everything goes wrong, there are days when it's the perfect storm. If we saw why the heart falling out was the perfect storm, then it really would have actually paid off, I think. Yeah. That you've been following it the whole time, like, here it comes, here, it comes, here it comes, and then it doesn't.

Then the dog eats the heart. Like, that would have been interesting. But, yeah, to have it suddenly just be there and then gone, I didn't quite buy it. And why did the man whose dog ate his drugs take the dog to the ER and not to the vet? Because he was high too. And the nurse said it. She was like, I'm going to sit your ass down. I'm going to call a veterinarian.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There were ways that could have improved that, but it didn't happen. nevertheless that setting that to the side i did really there were so many things about this episode that i really did love enjoy appreciate um yeah so i don't know let's let's get started what was the first okay i didn't write my notes in order because i'm brain dead right now i've got mine in order i will say um i loved just getting to watch Kate sing and how it sets us up later for the arc for Mia and Haley and Peyton. And I really like that there was this sort of mirroring thing happening with the boys with Julian

and Lucas and Vanderbeek. I don't know why I can't call him by his character's name because he just makes me giggle. But it's like I like seeing these creative teams. And in a way it gives me that sort of nostalgia for the high school years of the show because it's like the girls are off on an adventure and the boys are off on an adventure and and then you actually see skills with all the little kids playing basketball and like I don't know there's something really sweet happening and it's it's fun to get to watch those groups I really I really enjoyed all of that me too it was there were a lot of moments of transition I um I did love seeing the groups of Haley Mia and Peyton was nice to see them back together it did

remind me a bit of, yeah, the high school stuff when we would go off and we had scavenger hunt night or when we had stuck in a car siphoning gas night inside of the road stuff, all those little moments. They really were good. That writer's room was good at bringing back that feeling, recalling those moments for the audience. Yeah. And there was something happening in this episode, too, where we were using our locations really well. I loved seeing all the boys on the river court over and over again and not just the three making the movie, but also you know, Nathan and Lucas at the end. I loved, you know, you guys all over. You were home and at school and at trick and like everything just felt so full. Even even that scene with all of us lined up at

the bar kind of drowning our sorrows together and then beat comes in really upbeat. Like it just a lot of it felt fun. There was a lot of really good motion and blocking. Yeah. And it was nice. I'm going to give up my honorable mention early because James Vanderbeek is electric in this episode. I mean, I feel like he always comes in and he had a lot of energy, but it was as though he, he's the anti-Dawson in this space, which must have been interesting for him as an actor to come back, work on the same stages with this whole new crew of actors that took over the crew and the stages that they had been on for so long. And I love that he made this choice to come in and play this wild, loud, over-the-top character.

And he did it so sincerely, it didn't feel, it was over the top, but it didn't feel implausible. Again, like that, there was something about the way he did the performance. I was like, yeah, I'm like, I mean, he's a douche, but I kind of know this guy. I kind of met this guy. So much energy. Every single scene that he walked into, he just soaked up. sucked all the energy. Not sucked, but I guess he absorbed all of it. I'm saying it wrong. Help, jet lag. I know what you mean. It's like he really... He gave it all. I don't know.

Yeah, it's like he would take whatever was thrown at him and then throw it back twice the size in a good way. Like he was making so much more out of what was happening in the room. And it was really fun. And by the way, I even... I wrote this down. in his first scene, you know, that he's so gross, this man sitting saying, you have to get me a helicopter so I can have sex in it. But he's so funny. I was like, he is even charming to me. While, by the way, literally that whole scene revolving around the fact that this director

is rewarding the casting couch. Like, it's so gross and it's such a clear, so gross. icky thing that our boss like wrote into this episode and it's oh it's just gross and yet watching james vanderbeak do it i absolutely love it he's a douche and i love him it's like the guy you love to hate yeah well in the context he's making fun of it but he's doing it in a way where you can enjoy the experience but you're aware of how absolutely disgusting and ridiculous it is it was great it was a very uh masterful performance i really it's really it's really fun when you get a charming villain. Yeah. You know, someone who's fun to think the worst about,

that's really enjoyable rather than having to be terrified or, you know, traumatized or whatever that we're all just exhausted by. I really like being able to laugh at the bad guy. Yeah, I do too, because we used to be able to do that with Dan early on, but he went dark so fast that now it's so dark, so fast. Now it feels a lot like. Like he's, I mean, he's going through a very dramatic transition. Yeah, this is a gnarly time for Dan. I did love the little jab that Lucas gets in. When Lucas and Peyton come in for their checkup and see Dan, and he says, I'm getting a heart.

And Luke goes, it's about time. I was like, that's nice. So good. Yeah, I did a little double take on that one. It's so on the nose, but like, it's funny. Yeah, about time. Yeah, it's so interesting to be in a small town. You've got your heart transplant coming in.

and he everybody he knows that is around him it's so funny actually how everybody is dealing with his impending death the this everybody's pretty casual about it I guess by now because they're like they're like just die already it's so dark like the fact that Deb goes this is where I say goodbye and then just like turns around to keep doing whatever she's doing in the kitchen. I was like, I mean, I know you hate him more than anyone, but woman, you were married to this man. Like, that's it. That's it. Yeah, that was, that was gnarly. Poor little Jamie's the only one who cares. And then finally he says, you shot Keith. I got to get out of here. Take me home. Yeah, there's something very, it almost feels very

plaintiff, you know, in Paul's performance, the wanting a second chance so badly and then realizing you're not going to get it and having to see that everyone is okay with that. Everyone in your life and family is like, good, you didn't deserve a second chance. That has to be so heavy. Yeah, how would you deal with that? I mean, that's like him going out into the ocean, I guess. That's it, right? I really did love that scene.

Him in the water. I did. Yeah. Yeah, I loved it. I loved so much about it. I loved, because I've been there, I've been in that, in the pain of feeling like, hey, God, you? Like, I'm, how dare you? How dare you allow this A, B, and C to happen to me?

And I, you know, I'd love the. he's like, I'm not going to pray and I'm not going to, I'm not going to cower or whatever. If you, you're, you come get me because I'm, that's, that's the best you got, you know. I love it because it's so funny because he is praying. That's what he's doing. That's what he's exactly what he's doing by even just acknowledging the presence of something bigger than him that is watching, I don't know, involved. doesn't care, whatever the perspective is, he still is acknowledging that and having this

dialogue that keeps him from being lonely. Well, and he has no one else left to talk to you. And he has no one else left. And what a big statement, right? You know, he's in the ocean screaming, I give up. Yeah. Yeah, I give up. It's like more than surrender.

Yeah. Because he's, you know, potentially attempting to end his life. And it's so, it's interesting that someone like Dan, who has always exhibited that he thinks he's in control, like a real narcissist does, to say, I give up is like, oh boy. And I don't think it's an accident then afterward the next meaningful interaction he has. with the only person who's still interested in speaking to him, who's Jamie, is when he tells the truth about Keith. Yeah. He just gave up.

He's like, I'm actually just done. Yeah, what's left? Trying to manipulate, organize. I don't, I'm true. But now knowing kind of what comes in the next few seasons with Dan that he, did he actually give up or did he just become the same person all over? again. I don't know. It's heavy. But I thought Paul did such a great job with that. I really did. And it was moving. Deb, I was happy to see the two of them in this episode, too, because it's

been a minute. Yeah. They were on camera together and back in the same room. Barb, I mean, she had a lot to do in this episode between dealing with all the emotional stuff. Okay, my ex-husband is, who has tortured me and destroyed relationships all over this town and destroyed so many things in my life is about to die. I feel good about that. And I've got this hot young snack who is all about me, wants to have kids with me, wants to do this whole life. And she's trying to let him down easy. I mean, this woman has a lot going on. She's really, she's really on the roller coaster of the highs and lows. But I have to say, I just loved that. But when Skills does the thing where he, you know, flirts with her about how they could have some kids eventually, and she says, no, no.

And he's like, oh, you know, baby, you could have more kids. Like, you're not that old, whatever that means. And she just very simply says, yes, I could, but I don't want to. Yeah. Like, no, sir, that's not going to be my journey. And I loved that. And I love that we did that in 2009. Mm-hmm.

Like, it's not this year, by the way, where Sophia Vergara talks about her marriage to our friend ending because he wanted to have kids. And she was like, I've done that. Like, my son is post-college. No, sir, that's not my journey. Oh, is that what happened? Yeah, she talked about it, like, publicly recently. And I thought how, just how cool to be able to be so honest. Yeah.

You know, and I think people are. just getting honest about so many more things, like whether it's, you know, saying, no, I'm done, or fertility or whatever it is. Like, you know, I feel like more and more people are just getting a little more pragmatic about it. And maybe that's because we realize that not being pragmatic about women and our health and our bodies leads to people with no medical expertise, making laws about them. So, like, we better talk about it. Guess we should start talking. Yeah, I just thought that was so refreshing. It was like it's not drama. It's not anything. It's just these two people are at very different stages in their lives, which means their relationship can't continue. And it was really

interesting to see that modeled on our show by this woman who just stood in her power and just went, oh, I know, but that's not for me. I was like, oh, really, I was so taken aback by it in a good way. Yeah. And also that that that she had the it's a sacrifice. It's not just standing in her. She is for sure standing in her power, but there has to,

there's a real humility and sacrifice to putting what someone else, what's best for someone else in front of what you want. Because I'm sure, like nothing would have made her feel better than to hunker down with skills that they had a good thing going. It was fun.

They made each other feel really good and really safe. And it was, I really have enjoyed the trajectory of their relationship. Me too. It was a surprise and I loved it. But putting, like she could see his future that he was not old enough to understand what it is that he would be sacrificing. Right. And she was.

Man, when I was, I don't know, 19 or 20 living in New York City, somebody invited me to this. slam poetry thing and slam poetry was not a it wasn't popular back then nobody i'd never heard of it nobody was really doing much of it but it was at cbjeeb's which is now closed so sad now it's a john varvadoes store not that i don't like john varvadoes but it does break my heart oh god i'm like your leather jackets are great but this place used to be really cool epic It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I got invited to this thing and I went and it was super cool. I mean, just hearing all of these artists get up and share poetry sometimes with music, like they might have somebody with them playing music or they would just kind of wrap it out or whatever.

And this woman gets up and she doesn't have music and she's not rapping or anything. and she just has this story to tell. And she told the story of this beautiful, it was probably like a five-minute story, this beautiful romance that she had with this younger man who was 10 years younger than her. I think she was maybe 35. And it was so, it made her feel so alive.

She had had so many bad relationships before, and it was so healthy and beautiful. And they got engaged. And she realized that the one thing, he really wanted with kids and she didn't she just did not she just didn't want to have them and she had to she told this really heartbreaking story about how she let him go and it was the it was a major sacrifice and it broke her heart and it broke his heart and so many people in their life were like are you sure I mean like come on you guys love each other you only get one life she just said I cannot do that to him he

doesn't know what he's losing. He doesn't know what he's sacrificing. But I promise I am I am helping him with his future. This is the best thing I could do for him. Anyway, she said at the end of the story, fast forward. Three years later, she runs into him on the street and he's got a two-year-old on his shoulders and his new wife had a baby in her arms. And he just gave her a big hug and said, thank you, thank you so much. And I have never forgotten that story. It's so powerful to think about how difficult it is sometimes for us to let things that we really want go for the sake of someone else is good. Yeah. And you know what I think about that too is like when you can see the writing on the wall, it doesn't matter how much love there's been between you or what the

history is or how hard you wanted to try. Like, you just know. And somebody has to be brave first. Yeah. But if you're willing to be brave first, you can set the both of you free. Yeah. Because to your point, someone might be like, no, I don't want it to be over. And it's like, yeah, but you're not going to get what you ultimately want here. And neither am I. And so one of us has to be brave first. It's just going to, it's going to rot. Like, you've got. You got to get to it before it starts to turn, which doesn't negate all the time you've spent or all of the investment or all it doesn't. Because something ends, it doesn't mean that it was a waste of time.

But you cannot keep wasting time once you know where you're at. Once you see it, you just can't unsee it. And I think, I actually think that's something we should start celebrating. because what we like to do is celebrate the surface and be like, oh, look at this thing that looks picture perfect or that thing that looks whatever, fill in the blank. But it's like, I think we should start to celebrate each other when we say, you know what? It's not what I thought. I've learned the lesson.

Okay. Like, it's a really, it's a really brave thing. And I like it. And I like that Nanny Deb is brave. That's so cool. So what would that look like? Celebrating sacrifice. It's not even necessarily the sacrifice.

I just think we should celebrate people when they make the best decision for them, whether that's staying or leaving, whether that's Deb hunkering down with skills or saying, I know this part of you. Because by the way, we would all be healthier. And to bring it back to the show, like it's such a healthy thing she's modeling and she sees him and she's just like listen

I see this about you and it's a smart device in the writing that we get to watch him coaching the kids because it's so cute and it is so sweet and we see Andre and Jamie together and we love that their friendship is continuing and and you know the best three name name we've ever heard is coach uncle skills and it just does it like melts your heart you know he he sits those kids down and he gives them these compliments and he tells them why they're great even though they're small and no one's actually no one's actually a skilled athlete yet you know and and you really do get to see that he has an innate goodness with them and that's what she mirrors back to him and she doesn't make it personal and she doesn't make it emotional and

she's not cold but she's not sobbing it's not it's not this big thing it's just like this is the end of the line for us because we both want two very different outcomes and that's okay i agree another testament to antoine's abilities too i don't know that he was given not i don't know he definitely wasn't utilized to the best of his abilities on the show i mean he got some moments but man i really wish he had been integrated more heavily into a lot of the storylines because he's just so capable so capable as an actor for going from from fun and playful immediately into dropping it and realizing how difficult this is going to be. And just watching him go from being, even playing a teenager to being a really a strong

young man who's now growing up into a full grown man to figure out what he wants with his life, he gave his character such a, such an arc that the writers didn't give him. He took care of it himself. He just was like, I got this. You're not going to give it to me. Let me just do it myself. So talented. yeah he always did and it's so it's just so much fun to watch you know and it's like you know and

it's like you sort of wonder is it the chicken or the egg right where you're like well he was always so good at making a meal out of anything they gave him did that make them a little lazier with him or or were they just you know focused on the quote unquote core five storylines more and then putting him in where it felt like it made sense. I don't know, but I agree. I just want more skills. Yeah. I think that happens on a lot of TV shows, though, when you've got a character who's really charismatic and an actor, you can just trust to run with something. Yeah, I think they do, at the end of the day, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The ones that are like, you can rely on or just kind of, okay, well, we can trust him.

He'll take care of this. But yeah, I mean, I can't, I would love to see more of him. I would see more of Antoine and anything, honestly. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred

of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditional. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I do want to, I'm just going to say it now because perhaps that's that musing or questioning I just did is going to be viewed as a criticism of the writers. I didn't mean it to me, but I actually do have a major criticism. I hate, hate that they made me use the R word in that scene was Sam. I hated it then. I hate it now. I think the idea that like a foster parent would say that to a kid, I don't know. I just, I hated it so much.

But it was a battle that I lost. They wanted the fight to be like explosive and whatever. And it makes me feel so cringy now. Wait, but she didn't say that Sam was. She was saying that she told the store owner as an excuse. It was meant as a comedic moment, right? I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just clarifying like what the...

Yes, I think it was meant as a comedic moment, but I just think it's like, I think it's so ugly. I think like if you have to punch down to tell a joke, you're just not that good at telling jokes. Yeah. And oh boy, I hated it. so much. But I will say in the like immediate like, oh, I remember this day and like the fights about it. I also remember something that I like, which is they were like, this has to be like

an explosive fight. And I was like, I can't just like scream at her because I am like yelling. I was expecting unfixable to be the thing that you fought fought on. Yeah. Well, I mean, I didn't love that either, but the idea where the idea that it had to be so explosive for everything to change later, for her to go to Julian on my behalf, for Julian to come to me on her behalf, for us to make up over Jack, like all the stuff that I loved so much, it was actually a moment that I was really grateful to be pushed because the conversation was, if it's not something you feel so bad about doing. The payoff won't be as big for the audience when you feel bad about it. And it's really interesting because sometimes it made me think, like, yeah, sometimes I have

this instinct where I don't want my character to be an asshole, especially six years in. I love Brooke Davis. And I am like, I think she knows better than this by now. But the reality is that human beings make mistakes. And by the time I got to the end of the episode, I was like, they were right. me really flip out and really raise my voice was right. It was the right call. I needed to really go overboard so I could apologize for going overboard. Okay. And it was so funny to me to be watching it at, you know, in 20, 24 and be like, I remember how upset I was about this in 2009. And I'm glad I, I'm glad I was pushed. That's great. No, I'm glad you were too. And I'm glad you, you, um, brain is shutting down. I have no vocabulary words. When you give in, whatever, there's a better word

for that. When you, when you acquies, I thought it was a C word, but I couldn't figure it out. Thank you. When you acquiesce. And I'm glad that you did because I agree. It was a total, it was a payoff totally worth experiencing. It really was. And it was great for Sam's character, too, to be able to go through that arc of walking through the whole episode and feeling like I really am unfixable. And then to have that mirrored back to her. Actually, I was wrong. I'm sorry. There's so many great things that happen when an adult admits they were wrong to a child. Yes. It's so powerful. I've seen it happen in my own life with my daughter. It's been powerful for me even in my adult life when one of my parents has apologized for something. It's really powerful. I loved seeing that. And I think

what's cool about it, you know, we, it's really interesting, right, having this perspective. 20 years after the show came out because one of the words we use on this podcast a lot is modeling. Like what are we modeling for our audience? What are we, you know, what were we modeling then that we can see now? And I really think it's important what you're talking about is, especially when kids are young and adults are willing to admit that they were wrong or apologize for mistakes or say they're sorry for raising their voice or hurting their feelings or whatever it might have been. It also teaches kids that they're allowed to make mistakes and that the mistakes are not catastrophic. They are allowed to be imperfect, and it's totally human and okay.

And as a person who does a lot of therapy for this, cut to the ad, JK, I know how transformative it's been to begin to have that with my own family, even as an adult, because I didn't have to. Yeah, do you think the reason you were fighting back on it so much when you were younger's because like did you have trouble admitting when you feel like you had made a mistake in real life you didn't know where to put it like was it did it feel like there was shame and so you didn't know where to put it and you didn't want brook to feel that way yeah i think anything that pushes like on the shame button is hard for me because there there was just no room for mistakes like that didn't that just was not a thing that was allowed and the irony is

like perfectionism is when you are ingrained to be or become a perfectionist, you are consciously or unconsciously signing yourself up to be a constant failure because perfection doesn't exist. So it just like keeps you living in a shame spiral. And I think what's really powerful about what you're saying, like modeling with your kid now, what I've been able to see shift in my family as an adult with my own, you know, parents. And what I see with so many of the parents in my life is the based, you know, for fallibility and for mistake and having it be something you don't have to be ashamed of at all is such a big deal. And the interesting thing is that I can see how much shame Sam carries and how that.

and how that's one of the things that Brooke wants her not to feel. But in a way, Brooke has to make her feel ashamed in this episode for them to both learn the lesson they laugh at yet. I love when I see that happen in stories like these or just in real life when the thing that you're going through or the mistake that, like the mistake that I make and feel horrible about. And then I have to go back and apologize or whatever. and then seeing how the other person actually needed that, like Maria, for example, if I do something, I yell or I, whatever, whatever it is, all the many millions of mistakes that I have made as a parent. And going back and then it does, it gives her the permission.

And when you kind of pull back for a bird's eye view and look at the cosmic meanings of things like this, and you go, oh, so in a way, my mistake was always meant to happen because it's providing this sense of mercy and space for another person to realize, oh, it's okay to make mistakes. And we're all just doing that for each other, like handing off the permissions to be human. Yeah. It's lovely. Yeah. Yeah.

It really is. And it's like, I think the interesting thing about what I see in Brooke and Sam's dynamic from this vantage point is they both really. see the best in each other, and they both see the way the other gets in their own way. Like, Brooke can see where Sam gets in her own way. And Sam fully calls Brooke out on how she's getting in her own way and calls Julia out. Oh, the message on the machine. So good. And her grabbing the phone and being like, yeah, she's right here and forcing the adult in the room to talk to the other adult because they're the ones being children and they won't do it. Like, I, I love the dynamic so much, and I love that because someone is advocating for her in this new

way, it really does force Brooke to confront the fact that she is terrified to be in love with someone again. You know, she's just like, I don't know if I can do it. That was cute, by the way, that opening sequence with you and Austin with the I don't do that. Oh, in the last episode. I love you. Oh, it's so funny. Yeah. Really funny. I know. I really love it. You guys are great together. Yeah. We, I mean, we just have, like, such good chemistry. And, like, you know, we've known each other since we were 23 years old. Like, there is so much, even now, like, there's just so much affection between us. And I love getting to look back at, there's really something, too, I think, when you have such deep familiarity with people. Like, if he'd, if he'd been a stranger cast, I'm sure we would have, you know, found something great. But like, there's a, when you have a depth of familiarity on camera with someone, it adds like a little something special. And I, yeah, I don't know. I love their dynamic together. I'm like, I root for these two. They're very cutie. I do too. And it's kind of immediate, too. I mean, you know, you like Brooke and Owen. I liked the doctor guy that she never got to have a relationship with. I liked, I'm trying to, you know, Brooke and Lucas had their moment. There was some really fun stuff there. but it wasn't it wasn't electric like it is on camera with man you guys are so great and

it's that friendship it's the familiarity it's the ease of moving around each other where it's you're not getting to know a new actor um in each other's mannerisms and there's just so so much comfort and you could see that and I really love these two together a lot I feel like I see the exact same thing in Haley and Nathan in this episode too like you and James have such a good shared language after all these years that I love the humor that they put into the dynamic of him sort of sitting back and letting you like hurricane around because you're mad and you're hurt and you're righteous and you're all these things that you absolutely deserve to be and he's just like you reorganize in the kitchen like it really killed me in I also was

like wow this is like a moment where as a viewer I feel a little attacked because I reorganize the kitchen when I am stressed out. I was like, why do we do that? Is that just like, is that like such an ADHD thing that we do where we're like, wow, I don't want to deal with this. So what I'm going to do is alphabetize the spices. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I don't, well, I don't tend to do that in a, I guess it's two different types of neurodivergent. You can always have your different flavor. My flavor is I'll do that in the middle of the argument. Like I get avoidant in the middle of it, and I'm organizing the drawer while I'm trying to have a real conversation. It's like your hands need to be busy for your mind to think. Yeah, I have to have something to do.

It's probably my pride, too, because it's too vulnerable to just sit and stare at somebody in the eyes and be like, I'm mad at you. Why did you say that? Yeah. This is uncomfortable. Yeah, it feels better to just be like, hmm, I'm going to organize the drawer and you can think about what you did. Yeah. Yeah. You can sit there and look at me while I do something productive. That's right. That's right. And transparent. I loved the phone call with you guys. I thought that it was so sweet. And it just made me giggle.

It felt really familiar. I thought it was great writing. And then when you circled back and, you know, he's telling you the things he knows about you, right? That you're going to do the right thing. That you're going to figure it out. And I love that we see as the episode goes on. Haley really sink into the realization that the right thing is the true thing. And I'm going to

tell these kids. And yes, I'm going to lose my job and it's going to be awful. And they will miss out on the rest of the year in my class. But this will be the example I can set for them that they will never forget. And I thought that was very cool. Yeah. Because when somebody, I was thinking about that too, that storyline. that is how tough decisions come up. It's like it's going to have to be one thing or the other. And when somebody puts you in a position where you have to either do it their way or lose, I don't know, something that's important to you

or it's going to cost someone else something, like her class is going to lose. They're a really great teacher. But at the end of the day, that's not on her. that's on principal rimgis is that what they called this woman i don't know but it is it's on her and and haley i really appreciated watching watching her as you know i'm removed now it's been so long because i don't really remember doing this storyline but walking with the character through realizing i've been put into this position by someone else.

And I just can't, you can't force me to change because of whatever your power thing. Like, I just can't. And I want to stay here for these students. And I want to be the best teacher that they've ever had. But not at the expense of, you know, truth and what she feels. So she's, she walks out. And I kind of was surprised because I didn't remember what actually was going to happen. I thought maybe Haley was going to just.

go, yeah, look, I didn't, I didn't do what I was told to do, because there is something a little complicated about that. Like, that's her boss. That's her boss telling her, you're not allowed to do this. And so I guess technically she could have said, I disobeyed my employer. I went against what I was told to do as an employee. And therefore, I'm suffering consequences for it. I mean, I guess you could have made a case for it, but anyway, sorry, I'm just babbling through that in my brain. No, it's, but it does. It gives you that, like, yucky taste. And I think it's really interesting because I could see that it gave you that yucky taste in your mouth when Nathan said to Haley, sometimes you got to play the game. You were like, no. I don't want to. This isn't one of those times.

And I think there is something to be said for that when you have that sort of intuition and you go, No, this is different. Something's different. And, yeah, I just, I loved it. I loved this whole storyline for you. I love when you get, you know, the opportunity to be, like, frustrated and pissed. And I love that it winds up giving us this, like, you know, girls' summer camp energy in the studio. Yeah, so fun.

It's fun. I'm excited to see what happens with Mia's record, too. I don't remember much of the Mia storyline. So this will be fun to see. what happens Yeah And Peyton kind of got a break in this episode

There wasn't much Except for her dealing with She had so much In the previous So much heavy Yeah I I was wondering And I don't know

If you remember But I was like What were Hillary and James Doing? Because they both Really Got a break on this one And I was like

Did they get sent Somewhere to like Do something Or did they just get lucky And have a couple days To like walk around downtown

Or go to the beach I don't know. Okay, but speaking of Nathan, I really loved seeing him out on the river court with Lucas again. Anytime I see those boys together on the river court, it makes me so happy. And it was really fun on the heels of Lucas and Julian, creating these new river court memories, but really folding Julian in with everybody. I thought that was a really smart, fun, nuanced way of bringing him into the family, which clearly he was. was brought in by the next season. Yeah, I love seeing those boys. Anytime we get to see those boys on the court. And watching the two of them, two brothers come to grips with the death of their father, the impending death of their father.

And talking about it so casually, but also there's bravitas, but it's like, what do we do with this? We keep going around and around in this circle with him. I guess it's over. Weird. Yeah, it's a lot to carry. and I thought, I was really glad that they got to laugh a bit when Lucas told Nathan what happened.

It was the sort of, this is ridiculous comic relief that we all needed, even as viewers. And then to see them begin to sink into the heavier bits and then Dan show up, it felt nice. Yeah. You know, it was nice to see them, to your point, trying to make sense of this thing. that makes no sense at all together. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I love that this episode set us up so much for the future.

There were so many doors that opened up in this episode for what's going to happen next. What's going to happen with Mia? Peyton was set up in the previous episode. And what's going to happen with Haley now, no job? What's going to happen with Brooke and Julian now he's leaving? What's going to happen with Sam? And Jack, now that he's sort of back in the picture and there's maybe a safer space and then what's going to happen with Brooke and Sam. And then with Deb, Deb and Skills both now separating, there's all this open, there's open runway in front of everyone except Dan.

Yeah, it feels exciting. I guess his open runway is the afterlife, whatever that looks like for Dan Scott. His runways at bed end. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis. who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Juliana says, what is one trend from your teenage years that you wish would come back? I say listening to music. Everybody's on their phones now. Man, just to get in the car, go for a drive and put on an album and listen to the record, that's what you're doing.

You're just listening to the album together. It's so funny that you said that because I was going to say CDs. Really? And I know they're wasteful and I know. But that thing of you would put on an album to listen to it from top start to finish. You would buy a whole album. You wouldn't listen to like songs in a jumbled Spotify playlist of the week learned by the algorithm. Like I miss putting a CD in.

being like, here we go. Because a CD can't be interrupted by a phone call. You know, when we listen to music on our phones, we're also then just on our phones all the time. And our phones are designed to keep us on apps and social and email and texting. And I miss the focus of it. I miss when I would put a CD in and I had my three or four favorite songs and I would just listen to those over and over.

And then there were times when I'd put the album in and I'd kind of forget that it was on because I'd be doing something else. And then I'd find a song I had heard before that I kind of thought was boring. But then I hear it from a new perspective. And I fall in love with that one. And then I listen to some of the others. It's just a constant gift that keeps on giving. And now we don't really get that opportunity,

which is why everyone just releases singles instead of albums because we all have the attention span of a nat. And I miss it. It's terrible. I miss it. I do want to just say I absolutely understand the irony of two women with ADHD talking about how we have our attention span. but it is a global thing okay everyone we have hyper focus okay it's a superpower yeah yeah it's why

one of my love languages is to unpack for people when they move i'm like please please give me eight hours of boxes to open it's like yeah give me a break from my life oh it's like cat for me okay we're spinning a wheel we're spinning a wheel well okay i read the fan question go okay okay who is most likely to blab their best friends secret. I can't think of anybody in real life. I mean, character-wise, I don't know. Rachel? I was going to say Rachel, too.

Which is funny because Danielle is such a good, safe vault of a human. But yeah, I think Rachel had that, especially in the high school years, her character had that default of, I'm going to weaponize what I know of. Yeah. So I think that's probably why I think it's her. I feel like I could see a world where it's Bevin, but it like, character wise. Yeah, yeah, character wise. But an accident. Or like, she really is, like, she didn't know it was a secret or she's trying to, she's trying to help, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I can see Bevin like saying the secret, again, on camera, Bevan. Yeah. And then being like, Wait, I thought everybody.

Well, I'll take those two because I can't, I can't think of. And even if I could, I wouldn't say it. A real life person. Yeah, no. No, thanks. We like our friends. No, we've been, we've been vaults for a long time. We shall continue to be.

Next up, we have season six episode 19 called Letting Go. Goodbye. Goodbye. See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.Harendh. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be a smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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