Drama Queens - The Hollywood Dilemmaᐧ EP514

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

The girls discuss the demand of working in Hollywood, attempting to find a balance and how it truly affects personal lives. Plus, did someone say major set crush?! Find out who everyone was crushing on during filming and what they used to do about it!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. you guys welcome to this episode um i'm just going to cop to my unprofessional behavior right away we were supposed to pre-watch this episode and i have just been in the thick of PTSD responsibilities and i'm just like scattered anyway so i didn't do it i didn't watch it it's okay we're going to fill you in we'll tell you all about it i'll probably remember once you start talking All right. Well, let's give you a synopsis, shall we? That's what I want. It's season five, episode 14. What do you go home to? It originally aired April 21st, 2008. And this was a big episode for your girl over here. Brooke gets a phone call that is going to change her life in a big way. It has to do with a baby. Babys. Millicent and Marvin take a new step in their relationship. Haley seeks out Peyton about the making of her next album. He wants to do it together. Lucas returns to the Tree Hill Ravens basketball team

to discover that their star player, Quentin, is injured and lying about it. And Nathan begins to contemplate what it would take to get his game back. Okay. It was a shockful episode. Yeah. Really was. And directed by our friend Liz, Liz Friedlander, that's important. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, it was. It was fun. It was, it was actually. weird because I feel like at the beginning it was a bit of a slow start with everybody waking up in bed and she shot exactly what was on the page it was great but for some reason the music was very slow and so it took forever for this episode to get started and I it's not because of the content that was on the screen it was it was actually like a kind of a weird

soundtrack episode for me in the beginning but it did pick up as it went on but yeah this was it was cute like everybody woke up in bed and it was what they were thinking first thing in the morning. And it was, it made me giggle because Lucas wakes up and he's thinking about Lindsay and Peyton wakes up and she's thinking about Lucas. Jamie wakes up and he's thinking about Chester and Brooke wakes up and is thinking about Brooke. And I was just like, oh my God, I remember this. It was so funny. Right on. Brooke made me giggle. As you should at 22. That's right. She should be waking up. What makes me happy? Well, Brooke is so happy in this episode. And Sophia, you do happy really well.

And, like, it was just so fun to see you lit up and bubbly and excited. And there's so much drama on our show. There's so many people brooding and being pensive. And Brooke's been through so much that just to watch you have fun and be excited for basically the entire episode was fun. I loved it. Yeah. Oh, thanks. I did, too. It's nice, especially when, to your point, things are so heavy for so many of our characters all the time.

it's nice to get to be a little bit of comedic relief, you know, to make people laugh, to be a little silly. Like, you know, she gets the call about this baby coming into her life. And, you know, the divisive at Hill is that there are kids who are essentially sponsored to have free medical treatment in the U.S. who come in, you know, from countries where they can't receive treatment for whatever they're sick with and they stay with a host family while they have surgery and recover. And this is like a test via the adoption agency for Brooke post, you know, the fiasco of the woman from the agency being mean to her. And it's a good little device. But it's like I remember how much fun it was to play the panic in close over bros with Lisa when she gets the call.

And she starts freaking out to Melissa and like it's trying to get all her shit together and can't get her laptop in her bag and like has a full meltdown about it. and then you know goes to buy baby stuff and just buys toys that was my favorite scene it's so funny like you two come in and we're getting all the backstory it's all the exposition about the medical stuff and you're just like but like food a crib yeah no well my favorite was your response was Haley goes did you well did you buy anything for the baby and you just stared at me like look at all of you're sitting in the middle of a baby store What are you talking about? And then Hillary, you and I had a really good bantered, like, talking over each other.

It was so funny. It made me actually miss seeing the three of us do comedy on screen because we hadn't, yeah, we haven't seen it in a long time. Our characters haven't gotten to do that. Yeah, it had been a minute. Certainly not this year. But also, like, babies don't need anything. That's something that I tell every new parent. I'm like, don't buy toys.

They don't play with them. They play with boxes. Don't buy a bed because they, you know, either sleep in your bed or a clothes basket with a pillow. You know, like, they don't need stuff. When I gave birth to George, I forgot to buy diapers. It totally escaped me. Amazing.

Yeah. What'd you do? A couple old t-shirts? I don't know. I sent somebody else out. Jeffrey. Own a friend. Get to the ride aid.

Yeah, man. I totally forgot that was a part of it. Lisa Goldstein was giving me life in this episode. I loved her so much. I love the two of you guys. And she's just so sincere. She's so darn sincere and likable. What goes on with her and mouth?

Because I like that relationship and I like that they are both able to support Brooke in, you know, they're both her assistance. It's very sweet because they, Brooke's talking to Millison about getting a promotion at closeover bros. And then mouth gets a call about potentially getting a promotion to go to another market and become an anchor and like really you know begin working his way up the ladder and it's this moment where you know if he's going to move to Omaha to do this yeah it forces them to more swiftly talk about their dynamic and Millison does that thing that I think so many of us are encouraged to do which is you do what's best for you and we'll figure it out and um you know I'll support you and he he sort of stops her and says but I I want there to be a future

with us. And Lisa plays it so beautifully because she sort of registers shock. And then you've got Lee going too much too soon. I just, is it, you know, and it's this great, it's this great moment because they're sort of forced by circumstance to admit how strongly they feel about each other. Yeah. And it's special. Yeah, their chemistry is so strong and so obvious. I just love seeing them together. And it's fun. It's realistic. Like,

when you start dating somebody, especially in your 20s, and everybody's got careers, everybody's got dreams that they're pursuing. And, you know, you've got the chemistry off the bat. You're really into each other.

You're thinking about each other nonstop. You finally get the person that you've been after. You start dating. And then somebody gets a job offer somewhere. And what are you going to do? That's hard to take the back seat. Like,

when I'm at, Jeff, I'd never dated someone that was like, I'm the one that's working. Like, I was always the one that was working. Yeah. And it was like, do you want to be my plus one? Do you want to come and, like, sit behind monitor on set? And I'd never done that before, ever. Yeah.

And it was like, sure, I guess so. How did that feel? Well, at that point, I was never going to act again. And so I was like, oh, this is like the pivot. This is when I, like, hang it up and let him just do it. And he was like, okay, you're never going to act again. Okay, good story, Hillary. But it was, the difficult part was, like, I'm going to have this baby,

and I just have to go wherever you're working if we're going to be a family unit. Like, I don't get to call the shot about where we live, right? I can call the shots about all sorts of other things, but you determine, like, if we're going to L.A. or New Orleans. or Puerto Rico or all the places that we traveled to as a family, I had no control over that. He didn't have any control over that. It's like where the production company sends you. But that work thing really forces you to have grown-up talks before it's cool.

Yeah. And so, like, I guess it's easier when you're older and you know what, you understand the value of a great relationship. I think it's just a little easier to prioritize or to say, you know, what this isn't actually what I want. It's okay. Like you go do your thing. I'm going to let's not get too far down the road.

Yeah, sometimes it's a nice out, right? It's like, oh, that's crazy. You gotta go. Damn. Don't miss you. See you later. No, but when you're in your 20s, it's hard. It's hard to know what to do.

It's hard to know. Well, what they decide to do is Millie's going to move in with mouth and skills. and Mouth decides to stay and keep climbing the corporate ladder so we'll see we'll see what happens with them but I thought they were just so great and their conversations were so sweet

and I really wish Lisa Goldstein was still acting I just need her on my TV on a regular basis she's so good she really just draws you in and her comedy like it's really fun to watch someone who can cut right to the core of your heart when they're experiencing deep feelings and then in you know three breaths make you laugh so hard she just has such a great range and yeah i think i think

part of what i'm realizing is we talk about this stuff the dynamics of this is because so many of our characters jumped into such grown-up careers so early it's really refreshing to have a couple of kids that are 21 or 22 going, I might get a promotion. I might get to start at the bottom in this industry I like, but to do it, I have to move. Like, that's what most people experience. Yeah. They made it human because their performances are beautiful, but it does. It has that deep nostalgia of that era of your life that we sort of skipped over in a lot of ways because we had this, like, wildly accomplished at a young age group of characters. Yeah.

Having to move for work, though, is so jarring. Like, and I think that's something that we've talked about in The Strike. Maybe we haven't talked about it. My thing with taking acting jobs is always that they will not commit to where something is going to shoot for a series. They're like, well, we think it's going to go here. We think it's going to go here. But we can't commit to it.

But let's go ahead and negotiate your contract where you're married to us for six years minimum. And we'll let you know where you're going to live later. Yeah. Yeah. So welcome to Alaska. You have to take a propeller plane to get here. So crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. You're never going to go to your kid's soccer game ever again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's real. It's a real struggle. Another reason why this, you know, not to belabor a point, but I guess that's what we're doing is this strike is, it's important.

It's so important. Things are made worthwhile for artists. Just tell me where I'm going to live. Yeah. And it's also really odd that there's this idea that because you get to make art, everything about the job is a privilege, it isn't. It's a job. And it's hard. And when your whole family gets uprooted and people get moved around, I mean. There's a lot of sacrifices. It's a lot. And, you know, people just think everybody's rich and most people aren't. Most people aren't making, you know, all that much money. And it's like you do something because you love it, but your life, I think we're all in a moment where particularly when you see all this cross-union organizing, people are saying, look, I want to like my work, but my life shouldn't come at the

expense of my job, you know, my family, my partnerships, my parents, all of that. Do you all remember being kids and, like, in, like, getting People magazine or, like, watching, watching all, like, the trashy, you know, entertainment shows when we were, like, little kids wanting to be actors when we grew up, and being like, wow, why do they all get divorced? What, like, I could not understand, like, man, what's, what's going on in Hollywood? Why do they all seem so unhappy? And now I'm just like, man, I, from. From the top of the call sheet till the PA on the call sheet, the entire gamut,

when you're working 16 hours a day and you're not necessarily at home and I just don't know how anything survives. You know, that's... It's really wild. It's baffling. I was talking to a girlfriend of mine who did a show,

I'll protect her privacy, did a show very similar to ours. Yes, yes. Shot in L.A. And we were just talking about what it's like to grow up on a C. series like this. And to your point, that people only pay attention to what the actors are doing, but it's happening to the whole production. For everybody. And I will say, like, I think we've done

a pretty good job about talking about, like, it wasn't just everyone on our show kiss and everyone on our show. It was everyone on our show kiss and everyone behind the scenes, too. Yeah. And like, we were just talking about the whole dynamic. And she killed me, you guys. She made me cackle. She goes, well, everybody on my show, actors and crew members all dated each other. And we were in L.A. So what excuse did we have? Yeah, they didn't have one. It's the people you're around. It's the 16, 17, 18 hours a day. Like, who else do you have time to talk to? But yeah, when you really think about it, you know, it's inspiring he'll like to watch the way you and Jeff get to make the moving around work. Yeah. But you do have to sacrifice even to do that. If two parents have similar careers,

and it's like, well, only one of us can work at a time. Like, you still have to sacrifice. And then you still have to move to Georgia or, you know, Wilmington or Canada or New Orleans. Like, you still have to move your family and your kids. And I don't know, it's a, it's beautiful and it's hard. Yes. I mean, it changes every conversation you have because it was easy when Gus was little. But now that he's in middle school, we can't.

just like leave for a month or two, like we did in elementary school. And so for everyone that's out there doing a job that is not in the town where their family lives, that is a huge commitment. And so it's almost like easier to watch characters in their early 20s without all of that baggage make these decisions. It's like, go, kid, you've got another to lose right now. Don't have a good time. Do it while you can. Live the dream. Before everything gets serious. Oh, God. You know who does that for me in this episode? Who's so innocent that it breaks my heart is sweet little Jamie.

When he asks Lucas, Hillary, they're sitting on a staircase. And Jackson, and his sweet little face goes, I think Grandpa Dan's really nice. Why is everyone so mad at him? You just go, oh, boy. I think the most difficult question to answer, like how would you condense it all? Jackson really shown in this episode I thought he just he had he was having so much fun on the basketball court with the guys every scene he was in it was like I don't know what happened but something shifted where it's like he just got comfortable it was like he had hit the point where he felt like okay I got my stride I'm comfortable here this starts starting to feel like home and like a place I come to all the time I can play here now I'm not just expected to show up and say certain things and stand certain places and be intimidated now he's having fun and you can see it on camera. It was great. It's really cool. You know what it feels like? The thing, which I mean, of course, for little kids who are acting, they have to learn their lines. They practice the way

they say them. He's not delivering lines anymore. He's just hanging out with everyone. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Like, he's so at ease and he feels so safe, I think, in all of our relationships that he's just like bopping around with the guys. And it's, it is so. so endearing. Like, it almost hurts. Those guys are so good with him, though. Like, you know, we were all messy kids going to bars after work and stuff. And

overnight, it wasn't just a change for Jackson to show up on our set. Everyone was, like, expected to be a co-parent to this kid. And for a group of 20-something-year-old boys, there wasn't anyone that was like, oh, the kid is

here. You know, they were all so committed to making it a fun space. for him. They loved it. But he got to be involved in a lot of the boy in basketball scenes in this one.

Especially with Robbie Jones being around. This is just such a fun convergence of all the Scott boys, including one with Dan who gets on the elevator at the hospital. And it's like the elevator doors closed and it's just Lucas,

Nathan, Jamie and Dan. The door's closing. And I was like, I want a whole episode of this. I need this elevator to get stuck and I just want the whole episode of these four boys in the elevator. Right? Yes, because the presence of the kid forces them to hold back. Yeah.

And it would have been so cool if we'd gotten to really see it play out. Stuck in the elevator? Yeah, like give us one hour in the elevator. Could have been a whole episode. Yeah, absolutely. A whole bottle episode. Like the library one, but in an elevator, that would have been probably real tough to shoot. They make us do the hard stuff.

Look at all those boys. It would have been such a cheap show, too. They're like, we're going to save all this money, one set. That's right. Fantastic. But the basketball stuff was fun to see back on camera again to be able to watch the, I mean, even just watching Robbie and James play basketball for two minutes. I feel like we haven't seen that in a little while.

It's been lots of other drama. And Robbie Jones, to me, was the superstar of this episode. He was so good. He's incredible. And so good. Do you remember all the women and our crew had crushes on Robbie?

Yes. I mean, he was ridiculously handsome and so charismatic. I love that you just tried to pull that. All the women on our crew. No, but I'm like, including all of us. Every single one of us.

Yes. Everybody, to be clear, everyone was in love with Robbie. He was so charming. And I just remember, like, most of us were in committed situations. Yeah.

And I remember, like, there were girls who were like, oh, I'm going to go hang out with Robbie. And all of us were trying not to be, like, jealous. Just let us know how that works out. Fantastic. Yeah, it turned into a lot of, you know who you should date, Rob, and then tell us about it. Yeah. Who can we live vicariously through? Who can we set up with him?

Well, little did we know. I think he was dating his now wife even back then. Sandra, Sandy. It sucks when you realize that you've never had a shot. Never had a chance. Even if you could have, it wouldn't happen. Because back then we didn't have social media, right? So you couldn't cyberstalk someone and find out what their situation was.

Like, you just assumed you had a shot. And you didn't at all. No. No, because remember, we felt that way about Truco, too. Like, no one. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like Truco was in a relationship. And, like, all of these guys were really above board.

They were not flirty. They were very professional. They were lovely. But you just, you know, you're the new kid. Cool. What's your situation? No one wants to just ask. Instead, we'll all get together like hens and be like, oh, my God.

That's how you talking to? What's coming on over there? Well, by the way, I think this is something important to highlight for our friends listening at home because now when you meet someone or your friend meet someone, the first thing you do is like

go deep on their Instagram. Oh yeah. He couldn't do that. There was no way to check up on anybody's life and be like, oh, this person clearly lives with a partner or, you know, doesn't play for my team or whatever.

Like, there was no way to casually figure it out. So everyone was just like standing around a little antsy all the time being like, what do we do here? I don't know. And then you'd have that anxiety of like, well, I'm in a relationship and this person's being real nice to me. Like, do I have to figure out how to mention my partner or is that ridiculous? And then is this person just polite? Like, I would die, you know? It's horrible. You just never knew how to behave. Yeah, yeah. I still feel like I don't. I'm still just awkward. Oh, God. If I'm seeing somebody else asked me out and I'm like, well, I mean, I'd like to be friends with you, but like I don't, yeah, okay, let's go get a coffee.

But like, it's just friendly, right? This friend coffee, right? But then how do I say it? What do you say? I can't just randomly bring it up. Now what you do is you post on Instagram and they're like, you know they're going to look. Yeah, but my shit's private, like my private life. I don't know. Put all that stuff out there. But that's what everybody does nowadays, I guess. It's the kids' plays. Yeah. It's like having a billboard.

Well, I wonder what Peyton and Lucas's Instagrams would have looked like. It would be a lot of reels set to cure songs. Peyton would have been deep in the reels, I feel like. Yeah, I could see that. Just making little mini music videos every couple days. Yeah. Building a lake. That would have been good.

I might do that just for fun. Is there, have people created Instagram accounts for our characters? I don't know. That stuff makes me really uncomfortable. I got to be honest. Because you never know, like, who thinks it's real. Yeah, I'm like, this feels, I'm uncomfortable. I remember there was like a minute.

Was it during our season seven? don't know, where like all the fake Twitter accounts of all of us and then our characters got weird. And so then I remember like going, well, we should just run them. That would be fun. Like if we each ran like a Twitter account for our characters. And then I was like, I am not getting paid any money to do this. This is a full time job. Never mind. And I stopped. I think I did it for like six days. And I was like, no, I don't have time to write content for like a, I got to go. Not if you're not getting paid for it.

Not in the world. No. Hill, did you ever, you know, you were always so, music was such a big part of your life, obviously with MTV and then Peyton, did you ever actually consider starting a label? Yeah, I was supposed to with our boss. That was the whole schick. Oh, I didn't know that. When he was mentoring me, we were going to start a label.

And that was like the carrot that was dangled. And that was the thing that was taken away when I, when I raised my voice about things. And so, yeah, starting a label was something I was definitely into because I had hosted a radio show for a college station and, like, found all these bands and was going to venues all the time, trying to find unsigned. Like, that was, it was art and life converging.

Could you ever see yourselves doing that in the future? Um, not now. No. I mean, as my kid gets into music, like Gus had a little band for a while. And his chorus teacher has singled him out and had him perform in town. I guess he, they were doing karaoke at the end of the school year. And he sang Seven Nation Army. Like he's super into Jack White and the white stripes. And his teacher was like, will you come perform in town? And Gus was, very nervous about it but he did he went and he performed in town it was cute and so as he gets involved in that there's that part of me that's like oh god am i going to be a momager i don't know but yeah i think i think i wanted Peyton to succeed and so i wanted like a real record label to succeed i i still really like that crossover a fact and fiction in any kind of tv show or movie like it's it's the Blair witch effect right like with the thing you're watching feels

more fun if it might be real yeah so I don't know well I think that's the whole basis of reality TV right it's all scripted but yeah all right so then here's what I like though because I do have sense memories about you coming into the red bedroom office you do us being like, let's do this. Let's do Haley's record. You guys, you were so fun to watch doing that stuff. I'm glad. It was a fun scene.

That song that they played was something that a friend of mine wrote. But I also was kind of like, I don't know, I wish, I just wish I had had some better advice at the time. Like, I wish I had trusted someone to give me better advice because I feel like there was such a great opportunity to like find a really good music and great. great songs and play just like super cool stuff. And I remember the stuff that I heard just even just in this episode. I was like, oh, it's kind of lame. We need some better stuff coming in for Haley. But your sound has changed a lot since I don't want, not that your sound has changed a lot

since then, but like I feel like you're doing riskier things now than you were when we were kids, which is, you know, we've lived a lot more. Yeah, it just feels more like I don't care about fitting into some particular mold and I'm just trying to have fun and do what feels authentic to me, which I just didn't have that in me when I was 20. But I also think you have to give yourself like a little bit of grace for the context of the era. Like we were still in the era where the, where the girl pop stars were being forced into the kind of music they were making. And like you, you were being given music to play as Haley on the show. It wasn't like they brought in four producers for you to do four sessions with, to figure out who made you come alive as an artist and

then said, like, okay, Joy, go make music. Like, you were working a double full-time job. Like, sorry, 17 hours a day is nearly two, it's like two, eight-hour days in a 24-hour period. Like, they would hand me a guitar and be like, can you just play something for the beginning of this scene? I was like, okay. Yeah, like, I think you got to like let yourself up off the mat a little bit there because it's not like somebody took you in a studio for two weeks and was like, let's come up with something amazing for this one scene. They were like, hey, you have a scene on Wednesday and we have to record a song tomorrow. Like, yeah. Or do you have anything? I'm like, yeah, I mean, I guess I wrote something when I was 19, four years ago. But you probably got something,

right? Sure, sure. Oh, man. But again, like, how easy to be taken advantage of. I mean, come on. Yeah. It's a whole other talent, a whole other talent. A whole thing. other skill. You can't just get hired for acting and then how people expect you to do things that are going to end up on a soundtrack and then never get paid for it because it's the character that's singing. Wow. We weren't learning cheerleading dances anymore. So they needed us to jump through totally separate hoop. Different hoops. Yeah. It's cool for me to hear you say Hill that you remember the scenes. Because like, you know, we're talking about having just watched it. But that's so, that's so neat because for me, you know, when we all watch together and we talk in real time about

an episode, it's one thing. But I literally wrote in my notes, I was like, I love being an audience member right now, just watching the two of you, like when you came in the office joy and you started to, you know, talk to her and there's all this good news about Mia, but I could tell you were nervous. And then you're, you know, telling her how proud you are of her. I was like, she wants something. Is this going to be it? Oh, my God. Is this when she's going to say she wants to make music or is it something else? What's happening? Like, I was, like, excited watching the two and hoping I was right. And I don't know.

Like, it's cool to hear that even though you didn't get to watch this morning, you remember those scenes viscerally all these years later. Yeah, the storyline I definitely remember vividly because I love collaboration. And I, for the longest time, tried to make my romantic relationships collaborative. To me, that was like the most intimate kind of relationship you could have with someone where you're like doing a project together, like doing a thing. And that's what I wanted. And then I realized I didn't have to put so much pressure on my romantic relationships if I cultivated that with my female friendships. And so I started just like doing projects with chicks, you know, and I have like my producing partners.

And I have my girlfriends from high school that I do charity work with and, like, ladies here in my town that clearly I'm doing, like, stuff at the school with. And that sense memory of, like, Peyton and Haley being like, let's go down this road together. It excited me. That's the kind of relationship that I like most in my real life. So it's fun to play because you're like, oh, this shit's easy. Yeah, it's fun. And I think that's such an important. important thing that you learn as you age. Like, if you have to have a project in a romantic

relationship, you run the risk of your relationship just being a project. Yeah. Instead of, instead of like your one safe haven versus if you have projects with a bunch of the people you love to be around, but who you're not trying to get that, that singular romantic fulfillment from. You actually, you cultivate healthier relationships on both sides. Yeah. But I think it can be so easy, you know, in our shiny world of like content and this and that to be like, oh, power couples. And like, I don't know if that's it. No, man, Jeff and I stick to our lanes, man. Yeah. I also, don't you just need space? Like, well, yeah. Maybe I'm an introvert, but damn, I could not know. But go, please go away for the day and come back at the end of the day.

I can't wait to see you for dinner. Surprise me. Come home and have something to tell me I don't already know. Yes. And I like working in collaborative relationships with my friends because their problem solving skills are different from my problem solving skills and we're not always going to see eye to eye. And there's room to like learn from each other and stuff. I don't want that at home.

Like at home, I just want it to be fuzzy and soft. you know like cozy yeah i don't want to do like a a negotiation at home i want to do a negotiation like in the middle school gym when we're trying to figure out where to hang the decorations yeah well you don't want your dining room table to feel like a conference no that's a great point that's it you need separateness and i think thinking about this in real time with you guys right now i go oh right it's this dynamic that we've we've modeled so so well through evolutionary phases of these characters on our show

and it's why I think everyone always comes back to our characters, our female friendships being the love story. Yeah, yeah. Because like this is building long love and community together and yeah,

look at us modeling healthy dynamics before we even knew what they were. I'm still figuring this shit out. No, but from like close over bros when they're in high school to this new phase of the record label and now Haley's relaunching her career. I think that women need... There's so much bad stuff

that was directed at our generation. Like, look at the board games they had when we were little girls. It was like that call a boy game or like go to the mall game. Yeah, dress up for your date. Yeah. Mystery date.

Everything was just like ding dong. You know, like, oh. So embarrassing. And so I think for our generation to have like an example of girls hanging out with each other, not gossiping, not being bitchy, not plotting anything sinister. They're like helping each other level up. That's awesome. I love leveling up with my girlfriends in real life. And so yeah, it's fun to see, it's fun to see the gang do that.

And I love that Haley's doing music again. Yeah, me too. It's nice to see her hit that spot in her life. Joy, was that something that you had expressed, like, at this stage of the show, wanting to do more of as Haley? Or was that something they were more bringing to you asking you to do? I think I might have gotten, I think this might have been around the time I got my deal with Epic. Was it?

Nobody had blonde hair then. I had chronicle my life by the color. My hair was. Same, same. Same. Yeah, I don't know. I don't remember. I wish I remembered.

This is when you were doing Everly, I think. Because I remember. Oh, yeah, it could have been. Our Christmas party and then our rap party. Yeah. I think that could very well be. Yeah, and I was trying to. You were playing.

Figure out what I wanted to do, how I wanted to sing or sound. It's just so hard to figure that stuff out, like exploring this whole side of yourself as an artist when you made my whole career as an actor and have been doing that for so long that it was fun to have that opportunity, but it was weird to not have that opportunity to experiment artistically and kind of fall in my face and figure it out and figure what a crowd likes and what they don't like and what I enjoy. And because I was, it was on TV. And if I had, you know, done concerts, it would have been a whole thing.

So without having a whole team behind me and even if I had, then what would I have just become like a pop machine? I don't know. It was weird. It was weird to try and figure that out. So I don't know that I ever really got the time to understand and explore my own artistic prowess in that way. It can be really hard to find your voice when you're already famous. It's interesting. I hadn't thought about that before. Yeah. But I feel for you in that, like, there are things I've wanted to do for my own expression as a human, like lanes I would love to drive down that I won't because we get judged very differently. Yeah. Like, it's not like, you know, to your point, going and trying out music or like learning to do stand up or any other kind of expression where you go and you work your way up. a scene, we bring a scene wherever we go because of one tree hill. And that is an incredible

gift. But oh boy, yeah, like it can cut you quick because people think like they're always looking for a reason to tell you you're a failure when you're already a success in their eyes. It has nothing to do with how each of us feels in our own selves. And so I, yeah, God, I really feel for you in that because it's not like you could have just been going. and doing open mics and, you know, playing small venues, like, without any fear or pressure, you know? Yeah. I think that's the thing is I didn't have the tools to know how to handle the fear or pressure because I could have done it. I mean, there's, there are people out there who, like, James Franco went and did a soap opera in the middle of his, like the height of his career,

you know, like there's so many, it's just so out of the box. And I think there's something super badass about just being an artist. And you just, whatever you want to try, you just do. Just go do it. Go try something. Whether you fall flat on your face or not. But there is so much anxiety and pressure around maintaining a certain level of what people expect of you. That to be able to just lay that aside and say, I don't really care what people are going to think about this, I'm just going to do it because it feels good and it's fun. That is like the ultimate of being able to be an artist to me but I don't know that a lot of us get there

because there are so many pressure points along the way it was always weird to me that all of the musical acts on our show were solo acts right because I think band dynamics are so interesting and like so ripe for drama and

all of those kind of really heated personal relationships and like I don't know you've played with bands like you have toured with people it makes me sad that Haley didn't get like

a band I know that would have been fun like none of our acts did it was always just like I don't know solitary in a way that I don't I haven't experienced in the music industry

my experience in the music industry is like band culture where you're in a van with four or five other people and you got to figure it out. And we didn't get to do that on our show. What would Haley's band have looked like? Would it have been like all chicks like the Donnas? See, that would have been great. Like super forward thinking for the time. That would have been the band that Peyton put together for her and said, this is what we need to do. Oh, that would have been great. Chick drummers are so hot. Last time I was in Wilmington, I played a concert and I had

I have Megan Jane, who's a great drummer here in Nashville, came out, and she played in Wilmington, and she's just, she's so awesome. She reminded me of Jane a lot. Jane Beck? Jane Beck, yeah. Very similar energy, really calm and cool, but I love a female drummer that's just, like, so settled in their body, and they just fucking feel it out. Everything is so dropped in. Yeah, anyway, that's all I have to say about that. But, yes, I also love female drummers.

So cool. Haley needed a band. Man. Did you guys see six, by the way, yet? Have you seen six? The musical? Not yet. I really want to.

It's so good. Do you even know what I'm talking about? Yeah. It's the wives of Henry the 8th, right? Yeah. But like Spice Girls. It's funny, but super. There's a female, it's an all female band on stage.

And none of the women who are the actors ever leave the stage either. They're all on it for the entire 90-minute run, all dancing, all participating each other's songs. They work their asses off. But watching this all-female band just go at it every night. And they're killing it on stage. It's so fun. I love it.

And I love the different personalities in a band. Like, I just showed Gus Almost Famous. And it's such a good example of like, here's the drummer who's a little bit goofy, right? And then here's like the super moody lyricist guitar player who's, you know. think he's in charge probably is and then jason lee playing the lead singer who is just a dip and so lovable and then yeah your bass player is pretty mysterious always i wish that we had gotten to play with that because as deep as our show went into music territory you know it was always just you were expected to do all the heavy lifting all by yourself instead of

having a support group yeah too many other characters i can't Can't pay for all those, all those band members. If you had to set up your band, here's the question. Okay. And we couldn't pay new people to come in. Okay. Who was Haley recruit to be the band? That's so good.

That's so good. Oh, man. Who's on drums? I feel like we have to start with drums. And that feels like, just because I'm so super in love with Robbie Jones in this episode, I'm going to go with Robbie on the drums. Also, he's a basketball player, even though in this episode he's hurt his hand. Oh.

There are one-arm drummers. Yeah. And, hey, look, if he could never play basketball again, which is what his doctor told him in the last episode, then he can be my drummer. Sweet. So I want, so yes. I definitely would, I mean, it would be really fun to have Baiton and Brooke as backup singers, but you guys have your own career. So I don't know. No, but we could shoop, shooop here and there.

Yeah, well, we could do it. Yeah, we got time. Let's do it. We just block out studio days. We'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Who's on guitar? Who's just like mellow and sexy and who am I thinking of?

Yeah, they got to be like lanky. Guitar players are always lanky. Lanky, yeah. Why do I feel like it would be Uncle Cooper? That's what I was thinking too. It was kind of in the back of my mind. It was, it was. But I was like, I don't know.

Is it too? Is he like in the story? enough. Yeah, I'm going to go with Uncle Cooper. He would be on the guitar or the bass actually, because he's got that mysterious thing going on too. And all the bass players are always so mysterious. You got to get a chick bass player. I know that's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I know because I'm like, we need some more girls in this band. Um, Millie doesn't feel like she's in a band to me. I mean, Rachel, if she got her act together, could definitely be. That's what I was going to say. Yes. Killer. Actually, you know what, Rachel could be on drums too, I got to say.

Yeah. Yeah. She's got to be on like one of the aggressive of instruments. Yes, for sure. Something that she's going to hit or slap, either the bass or the drums. Yes. Love it. Get it out of her system.

Yeah, I like this band. Yeah, me too. That's good. Let's imagine this. We have to talk a little bit about Peyton and Lucas. Can I segue? Yeah. Fill me in.

What did I cry about this week, friend? Well, here's what was weird. So we're like, we're hanging out with Brooke. We're helping her figure out stuff with the baby. She invites Nathan and Lucas over. I think maybe I missed it. I don't know why they, why did they come over?

So congratulations. I guess it sort of just felt like, yeah, people were like, you're getting a baby. Congratulations. Yeah, they just showed up.

It's like publisher's clearing house. Yeah. And it's like, no, it's temporary, but it's cool. I don't know. So you come around the corner

of holding something to do with babies and Lucas is there and you both stare at each other and it is the longest, most awkward, like, oh,

you're here. Oh, you're here. neither of us knows what to do and neither of us neither of you could look away and pretend like everything was fine because that wasn't in the script so you just had to stand there and stare at each other but then they cut to you guys walking you've left the group and the two of you are now taking a private walk which felt very abrupt and sudden after the whole wedding fiasco I don't know do you remember that at all where were we walking like were we inside or outside

outside I was like where was it I think it was out at the beach on Summer Rest Road. Yes, it was a neighborhood road. I was going to say, isn't it supposed to be the exterior of my house? Yes. But we never went there because Brooks House was in Carolina Beach. So sometimes we would just go to random places and be like, this is her neighborhood. And I'm like, is it?

Yeah, Neighborhood Street. I have like crazy sense on me because Liz's episodes really stood out to me. She had like older sister energy that I was very, very drawn to. and I would get just like so excited. And then, you know, like when you're excited about hanging out with an older chick that's cool and you're like, don't be a dork, don't be a dork, I'd really get nervous. And I remember being at that location with her and we had to pace out the walk. And Chad was either still getting ready or just like wasn't there.

And so she and I paced it out together and she was reading all of Lucas's lines. And I was just like, don't be a dork. Hillary. Like, I just have strong memories of that. So strong that I can remember the road. It is summer rest road out at Lake. Wow. I love that. It's right on the sound. Yes. I'll remember it forever. It was funny because you're talking about, oh, are you, I'm sorry about Lindsay? And he's like, no, we're going to get back together. Everything's really good. It's fine. She loves me. It'll be good. But the chemistry between the two of you is heavy. It was good. I felt, it felt like, oh, oh, yeah, this is what we've been missing. Little Lucas and Peyton.

I remember in earlier seasons when, like, people would tell me, oh, you and Chad have such great chemistry. I would get so mad. I'd be like, what are talking about? No, we don't. We're just doing our jobs, right? And then by the time we got to this season, I was a little cocky about it. I was like, yeah, put them in a room with me.

Let's see what happens. Come on, make them sweat. Yeah. Well, I liked, of all the stuff they rushed on our show, I liked how drawn out this Lucas Peyton thing is. Yeah, me too. Make it hurt. Yeah.

Yes. And by the way, make it take time. Mm-hmm. You know, like the wedding fiasco is a big deal. Like, let it sit and draw out. And I don't know. like when we give the characters opportunities to really go through their complex emotions and process those things. Because sometimes on our show, it's like, well, that was fun. And like two

scenes later and it's over. And you're like, wait, what? Yeah. What do you mean? Sometimes you just get a baby. Yeah. Just boom. You got a phone call. She'll be here in an hour. Oh, my God. Owen. Owen didn't show up because they didn't want to bring him in and pay for the episode. So they brought in Chase, just to say, like, Owen, uh, oh, it's not coming. What? But Chase also felt weird because he wasn't in it for that much. Like he was in it, in and out, but it's been so long since we've seen him. I don't know.

Hillary, you're going to freak when you see the scene. I get in a fight with Owen on the phone. He's clearly not there. And I'm like, well, figure it out. And he's being weird about the baby. Okay. Well, yeah, duh. Yeah.

And you say something about like, this guy who. like you you've barely even kissed or haven't even kissed yet whatever it is and um and then chase shows up and i'm like oh owen's on his way and he's and he basically says that he he's not and and i think he's come in his place but he's explaining to me that owen's really threatened with the baby stuff and he really values his independence um and that you know he wanted to say goodbye but probably couldn't wait you got broken up with via chase Through chase. And then I say he sent you and he goes, no, I came on my own because I feel for him because

I know that I know how he feels and he probably feels like if he looked in your eyes, he would throw his independence away. And he's basically flirting with me, telling me that it's hard for him to say goodbye to me. And that like looking at me makes boys cave. And then he's like, you know, call me if you need someone to talk to advice, the husband. And I go, I'm sorry, did he just offer to be her husband when his roommate is definitely dating her? It was so weird. It was really funny, really funny scene.

It was funny. But Stephen did a great job, honestly. Yeah. That's so uncomfortable. I think so, too. My entire storyline this season is uncomfortable and ridiculous, but here we are. They didn't know what to do with you. They were, I mean, they really, your stuff with Victoria is awesome, but otherwise.

They're like, an independent woman, but you... Oh, good God. What am I doing that? Ain't that the truth. Ah, baby, you made it work. You made it work. And you got that baby, which was like a sweet baby. It was two of them, right?

I remember that baby. She had so much hair, and I loved it. She was a little butterball. I loved her. Yeah. That's a great shot at the end. Yeah. How weird for parents to bring their new baby onto a set and have all these strangers want to touch it?

Like, I didn't think about that when we were in the thick of it, but now as a parent, I'm like, what? Yeah. So strange. That must be really, I don't know. I mean, I guess to eat their own, maybe somebody's comfortable with it. It would make me so uncomfortable. I could not do that. Well, you also hit that point in early parenthood where you're like, anybody take this baby.

so maybe that's the phase we were like that's actually probably true if someone could just hold this for me yeah you're just so sleep deprived like am i going to be allowed to sleep because i will hand this baby to you if there is a trailer that i can i need to go disassociate for 35 minutes someone take the baby i spent last weekend with with my best friend and my godson and one of her closest friends in in detroit has a six-month-old and she came to eat with us and like you know we sit down to eat and I'm like, give me the baby. And she's like, no, no, really, it's fine. And I was like, you have a six month old. You haven't been able to independently use your hands to eat a meal in more days than I bet you can remember. So just give me the baby. And she was like,

oh my God, thank you so much. I was like, don't say no. Just give me the baby. We got them. Let's pass this little boy around. I love it. Do they touch you? They're always, they're always touching you and on you and pulling at you. And it's great. It's great that you did that for. I have a role now. Like, I can't, she can't touch me when I'm eating. She'll induce when you're doing me. No, like, I can't. I did, it was too much when she was a baby.

So now that she can eat independently. I mean, obviously she can't, she's 12 years old. But like, for many years, I've said, just don't. You cannot touch me if I'm eating. It's too stressful. George pinches when she's eating. She has a thing where when she's eating, she has to pinch your knuckles or your elbow. I thought that was just when you were reading her a story.

It's all the time. Like, it used to be when I was reading her story. She'd be, like, drinking her bottle and she would do it. No, she has to be pinching your loose flesh so that you feel so old and pruny and wrinkly. If she can find loose flesh on you, she's going for it. Earlobes. She's real into those. Give me that.

Yeah, she's a pincher. Yeah. The last thing we have here is Barbara's back. Barbara at the end comes in as the nanny that Haley finally hires. I remember doing the scenes we were interested. interviewing all those nannies. It was pretty funny. But yeah, we hire Barbara.

So I'm super excited at the barbara's back. Oh, that's right, because that's how she ends up in the cornfield with nanny, Carrie, later. Isn't it also how she ends up with skills? Oh, you might be right about that. Guys, that is like, that is a core memory. So much juicy stuff coming.

Juicy. Love it. Ready for it. I'm into that. All right. So what are your honorable mentions for this episode? What are we thinking? Robbie Jones for me.

I guess I got to say, like, he wins. He was so good. Do we have a fan question for this episode? What do we got? Also, honorable mention to Mouth having the ingredients for an apple martini in his apartment. In his boy apartment? It was pretty funny. What goes in an apple martini?

I don't know. I do not. I do not drink apple. They're gross. But like when you're 21, you think it's cool and fancy. I did. Yeah. And now I go, you couldn't pay me.

I wouldn't do it. Gross. Green apple martini is made with apple liqueur. That's where we stop right there. Vodka apple liqueor lemon juice. Gross. It's basically just like the, it's like a juice box. Yeah, it's like a juice box or a jolly rancher.

I bet that would be better. Like if you had a little Capri-Sun apple juice with vodka. With some vodka? Cool, man. Like Capri-Sun would probably be delicious. I'm sure somebody's on a raft drinking that right now. It's got to be happening. All summer long, George can't say Capri-Sun.

She calls them presoles. And I thought she was talking about... Prisans. Like, she kept saying it like it was this fancy French drink. Like, Mom, I need a preson. And I'd be like, what are you talking about? Capri-son. we're going to call a Capri Sun and vodka, prissons.

Okay, so our fan question is, if Haley and Nathan didn't get married in high school, do you think they still would have ended up together from Ashley? Ooh. I don't think it had anything to do with getting married. No. I think it was having the kid together, because they both came from complicated parental relationships.

And Haley's was certainly better than Nathan's, but I think they both wanted to reinvent what parenting looked like and committed to it. Yeah. Because every time you two fight in these like post high school years, it's always like, well, let's pull our shit together for the kid. Right. Let's figure it out for him.

If they didn't have the kid, though, do you think? No. I don't think so either. Yeah, I don't know. No, I think they both would have just moved on and missed each other and, like, found other people. Because I think a lot of people will work things out for kids and sometimes that's beautiful and sometimes they shouldn't like sometimes people use

well it's not really working it out well exactly it's like you stay because of the kid but then you model like a toxic unhealthy relationship for a kid who has to unpack it for the next 25 years in therapy sorry kid sorry so that's tough but like i i also i think it can be really interesting because I think sometimes, like the idea of kids, the idea of what your dynamic is going to be for children can be the reason people call it as well. Yeah. And so there really is something interesting about Haley and Nathan because they got pregnant so young that they had to evolve into a dynamic together, not only into their marriage as adults, but into it with a baby. Yeah. You know, like, that's a lot of work that they had to do.

And I think, I think as an audience, witnessing it and knowing they loved each other and knowing how hard they worked on it made us root for them. But yeah, if they didn't have the kid, like, would they have worked that hard? I don't know. Is there a faction of the audience that ever wanted Haley to break up with Nathan and and be with Lucas? Like, to do the Dawson's Creek thing? Right.

I remember hearing a little bit of that and some of the fan mail that I would get early on. People, like, there was definitely a small, much smaller camp of people who were interested in that. But it went away pretty quickly. I never heard much of it after season two. Yeah. And it was Lucas and Peyton. I mean, I think that was the story that had been set up since the pilot. That was the story that they had to finish and follow through.

No turning back, kids. No turning back. Well, I'm glad that Haley and Nathan stayed married. Me too. And I find it believable. Like, I just, it's back to school time, and I'm looking at my Facebook to see all of my friends' kids going to school. And I love the couples from my hometown that are still together from high school. Like, their kids are old as hell.

They had kids like, right away. Kids are going to college now, and I fucking love it. Good for them. do we want to spin a wheel give me that wheel spinny spiny this week's most likely to most likely to win big at a casino

well we don't gamble so that's right yeah that's what you just said yeah win big all right character which characters take it at home Deb's got casino

energy. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, like Deb at the craps table, just clean it up. Oh, my God. I want that for her so bad to just walk out of there with like $100,000 and be like, you know that. Yeah, she's a winner.

I mean, and it might be Barb in real life. Yeah, I was going to say too. It feels like Barbara. Yeah, because Barbara just feels like a lucky woman. Like her daughters are amazing. Everything's always like, you know, she's just such a positive force and always, always nice, Good things happen around Barbara. Yep.

She's so vividly alive, and I love that now that two of her daughters are adults, they're just like doing cool girls' trips together. Like, their trips all over America, there's got to be a casino in there somewhere. I'm going to call Emily. Girl, you and your mama win some money. I hope so. All right, what's next week? I'm going to watch next week's episode now that I, now that I'm all caught up.

Season 5, episode 15, life is short. that's an understatement. Mm-hmm. All right, ladies. Thanks for covering for me this week. Honestly, it's kind of fun. Fill in the blanks are fun. Yeah.

See ya. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-TH. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school. Drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school.

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It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.