Drama Queens - The Next Generation ᐧ EP607

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

There’s a brand new OTH audience as Hilarie watched this episode with her son! Find out his reactions and of course what it felt like for her, watching with him!  Plus, naturally, the girls have their own opinions of the episode, including what they absolutely loved, what they didn’t, and what Joy seemingly blocked from her memory!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Chearing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama, Drama Queen's

You guys Season 6, Episode 6 Messing with the Kid Uh Some of us think it was awesome Some of us Think it was a dumpster fire But we were gonna find middle ground

Because there was some cute shit In this episode From October 20th, 2008 Ready Set Go Would you guys love and hate? Oh, I liked this episode I was surprised you said you didn't like it You know what?

I like parts of it But This is my overall And the fans, I have seen your feedback. I know you don't like it when I pick on things. However, as a professional who watched this episode with her 13-year-old child, what I will say is that it felt like each actor only had one day available. And everything was like the same blocking, the same set, like the same thing over and over again.

And the dialogue was all a reminder of old basic shit. that we already know? Like, there's a conversation in particular between Haley and Brooke where it's like, you're the strongest person I know because ABCD, you're the strongest person I know because ABCD. And I was just like, what executive note

did we get from Warner Brothers where they were like, hey guys, nobody remembers anything from the previous five seasons. Can you remind them all in one episode? Yeah. I mean, maybe they were focused more on the comedy because there were a lot of quips and a lot of jokes and a lot of good one-liners and stuff.

So I'm wondering if maybe they were just like, we just need a funny light episode. And so they gave it to Harrow and Strauss and said, please just make this funny. And so that's really the only thing it seemed like they were focused on. Ron, yeah. I also get the sense, like, because the humor and the quips and everything I really enjoyed. I thought some of the comedy in this episode was great. And then the things that started to kind of turn into that like, what, what are we doing? why are we doing exposition together over coffee yeah you guys are best friends you know each other

like I liked the way the scene started and then I went oh wait are we just going to volley the same compliment back and forth and it it felt to me like one of those I don't know the thing that it lit up in my brain was is this a bridge episode to remind like maybe the fans who started in five or six of some things because there's some stuff. coming. Like, I get that sense that maybe they're trying to lay pipe for something. I don't know. Did you just say lay pipe? Oh, my God. I meant lay pavement. It was in my head. I was seeing a road. Oh, boy. That would have been a better episode, honestly. You know, it's really early, and I have clearly not had this coffee yet.

Poor Lucas couldn't lay pipe this episode. Oh, my God. I loved it. Let's just talk about your storyline. I loved it. It was my favorite. It was really nice. Here's what I have to say about this, because every relationship needs levity. It needs jokes. It needs, you have to laugh with each other. It was great. I don't think I've ever seen Peyton Belly laugh on this show. No, never. That was the first time. Yeah. And like, you can't have a relationship sustained on drama and ups and downs and trauma bonding and all the, like, we have to know why they actually like each other's company. Yeah. And I saw it. Weird episode. to watch with your son um he just like jeff's in the city with george and so gus like wandered in this

morning while i was watching the episode and was like what's this and i was like i don't remember sit down kid i'm like once you're in you're in um and for him he's seen this couple play the way he sees his dad and i play where you know anything that's high stress in our household we make a joke out of. And that's how we keep things light and cool. So for him, that looked really normal. And he didn't like his mom, you know, walking around in a t-shirt. But it was, it was cool to see him be like, oh, this couple is a no-brainer. He likes Lucas and Peyton together. And so, as a pallet cleanser after this episode, because I was a little wah-wah afterwards, especially with the freeze frame on Jamie at the very end, which was so weird. Yeah, it was a

No, that was a no dog. I was like, Gus, do you want to watch the pilot? Because he's, you know, he's a theater kid and he wants to get back into basketball and he's been talking about it all week. And I was like, watch the pilot, see what happens. And for him to watch the beginning of Peyton and Lucas this morning and fucking jump up out of his seat when Lucas hits the game winning shot in the pilot and, like, tells Peyton I'll be seeing you, the child jumped off the couch.

It was adorable. And then to watch this episode where like Peyton and Lucas are now together and everything's great, it was cool to watch the magic of this relationship unfold for a brand new set of eyes. And to your point, I like that there was fun in this episode. I like that maybe we didn't have the budget to do one of our big, big, big episodes. So we just brought everybody into house arrest. We're all just, so Fiona opened that door. so many times in the set of those.

Who's behind door number two? The Brooke Davis apartment door got a workout. House arrest. We were all on house arrest for years with our people. Okay, but I really want to know because we're talking about Joy, you and I are talking about what we enjoy about seeing Hillary and Chad

like laugh together and play together and have these jokes. but you are what don't you like about it yeah why don't you like that is is it that it feels like a device and you and you guys managed to make the device good in the pages yes so the whole like shtick of i read an article and it was clear to me that women had no say in this script like Peyton freaking out about this article and like oh no blah blah blah blah blah it does Like, I remember thinking it was dumb when we were doing it. And I even said to Gus while we were watching it, I was like, look, this is how actors take

something that they think is dumb and commit to it in such a way that you earn your paycheck. And so we did work really hard to make it fun. And what I liked is that Chad and I made the choice together. Because I remember having a conversation that we were never going to be mad at each other. Like there was a little bit like, are you going to get irritated with each other? and and it was like no the oh he's good like each each volley of the war of the roses was an opportunity to impress one another with our creativity yeah and so that felt fun but then like haley getting into a physical altercation with the mom at school no that was silly the way that all the women were talking in this episode yeah it was clear there was not a female executive anywhere to be seen nice sweet Kelsey coming back, the joy of seeing Gigi, and then having her be like, I'm just having lots of sex. And I wish I'd had sex with you. And I also have sex with girls. I was like,

what eight-year-old boy wrote this? Yeah. Like, women don't talk that way. And if we want to flirt with someone who were like, man, I've had a, you know, really should have done this differently the last time I had a shot. Like, we're not going to talk like that. Way more coded and clever. Women are so much more clever than all this just like blatant It was great seeing her face on the screen I was sure was happy to see her But yeah, I really wish they had given her something A little more interesting to do

Yeah Everybody like looked good in this episode Where did we all come from? Everyone's kind of like tan and in a good mood I have that note too I was like I have a tan Hillary's got a tan You were all glowing

Oh yeah Lee had a tan You had fresh highlights hill So if you had a haircut. Yeah. Did we have a hiatus? Maybe we had a hiatus. It aired at the end of October, which means if we were six weeks ahead in shooting, mid-September. I mean, what a dreamy time in Wilmington.

It's still hot enough to go to the beach, but it's not so humid that you think you're going to die when you're outside. And the tourists are gone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe this was one of those years where we were all just like on the beach on the weekends. Yeah, I think so. Those were good times. They were. And it's interesting because that, that spirit of play that, like, you can kind of see on everybody's faces and how you're talking about you two really wanted to make sure you kept it playful instead of bickering.

Especially because the device of like, oh, a woman's read something and now she's upset is like so. Yeah. It's like so Victorian and dumb. Yeah. Victorian. You know what I mean? Like, oh, the woman has learned to read and now she's on the fainting couch. Like, what is going on? The woman learned to read. That's it. That's what irritated me. I couldn't articulate it.

Yeah. It's very pedantic. But I will say, you guys infused play into it. And Joy, you said it. Watching Peyton belly laugh is fun. Watching, for me, remembering the sort of this kind of like frustrated comedy with good one-liners I got to do in Brooke, that was always really fun. for me. Joy, even though it's ridiculous that Haley would like get into a fist fight with this mom, it's fun to watch you like fired up and to have to watch Nathan talk Haley off a ledge, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And then Nathan's playing. Everybody's playing. Him with Jamie and on the slam ball chord and, you know, Chad's playing with you. It's like, I don't know, it is really nice. As silly as some of the devices are, it's really nice to see everybody just having a good time together. Yeah. I think it's totally, I mean, I don't know, Hill. I thought it was totally reasonable that they would, she would be goofing around. I think it was, it went too far in the direction of what you're talking about. But the idea that she would wake up, be reading a magazine article, if they had written it a little bit more with a little lighter of a tone and go, you know, start mentioning these things and then they get into it. And then the day just progresses and it's like, I'm drawn a line on the floor. And that you just play with each other. That feels realistic to me that I could see too. people in a relationship, just having fun, goof it off all day long and just the one-upping each other. It's a fun way to just play. You know what I liked about it? You guys have talked me into it. Fine. All right. Oh, good. Oh, good. What I will say I liked about it, even though I hate the Victorian nature of it all, is that what it does allow sometimes when you don't know

how to have an uncomfortable conversation with someone. Yeah. You know, remember parents used to say this to us about watching our show with their kids. This helps me talk to them about relationships. It helps me talk to them about sexuality. It helps me talk to them about drinking. I like that we get to see that you know it's not necessarily a big deal, but you are uncomfortable that you haven't actually moved in. And you do want to sleep in a grown-up room. Oh, thank God. I was so happy. Peyton's like, can we please not sleep in your high school fit? Wait, did we ever read the synopsis. Oh, shoot. We did. You guys, we got so fired

up about this. All right, all right. We're going to give it to you now. So these were all just teasers. These were teasers for you. Somebody read this thing. Season 6, episode 7, messing with the kid. Air date October 20th, 2008. Nathan and Haley must parent Jamie in the face of a school bully while Lucas

and Peyton adjust to life as a live-in couple. Brooke finds being a role model not as easy as she expected and Marvin tries to get his old job back. I love their storyline. I did too. Thank God Peyton wanted to move into the Karen's bedroom, the master bedroom. That's all I'm going to say.

It was needed. You know, the only other episode that Gus had ever seen before was when Lindsay was living with Lucas. And there was an episode where she's asleep in bed and he's like dinking around at the typewriter, like watching her sleep. And even my child was like, why are they in his childhood bedroom? That's weird. And so I like that Peyton is messing with him. Oh, I remember what it was. So the whole thing about Lucas not being able to, like, get it up.

So funny. I remember that was like a thing because Chad was a, he committed to it. He played it really, really well. But I remember it feeling like a dig. And I remember like, you know, when you're like a young stud actor on TV and your storyline is that you can't. perform he committed to his job but it wasn't fun for him like that's embarrassing like it's an embarrassing thing but he was in his mom's bedroom like I get it I get it I get it I get it I 100% get it but you know sometimes when we would get thrown those storylines where you're like

he was a very good sport about it which made me laugh even harder I mean I'm like I legitimately had a great time doing those scenes because he was so butt hurt that I was laughing. Yeah, the end of it when he calls like, I'm going to call Lindsay and you're like, I mean, if you think that would help. Yeah, fine. You should call her. I love how unthreatened Peyton is by Lindsay. Yeah.

That was really, that was a good move. That was a power move. I liked it. But I think my favorite thing was Fergie coming in at the end. Yes. Every time I see those Rivercourt boys, it makes me so happy. Like junk checking his phone to see if he got a text? Yeah, those little moments were so gold.

My favorite line of the whole episode was, I don't remember ordering bad Italian. Oh, my God. What a weird. Spit take. Come back. Like the Owen of it all. I feel like that's also one of those storylines where I don't. know if Joe had started working on true blood or what was going on, but he just disappeared.

And then Stephen was back, but then Stephen disappeared. Now Joe's back. I feel like it must have had something to do with availability, because I can't imagine they would have just been so sloppy, but maybe they were so sloppy. And the message boards were going so crazy that they were like, oh, man, we really need to explain this. We really need to do something about this. I liked it. I thought it was really fun. It was another sort of bantery, one-upy, but in a sincere way. And I appreciated that his character stepped up and apologized and I liked it.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going. on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries.

This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joe and I always had really good chemistry. Like, we always had someone.

much fun working together. We laughed a lot. And I think there's, um, when Brooke and Owen played tension, it was, it was always just really fun for us to be like, ooh, how are we going to dial this one up? And yeah, there's something about that volley when it's a little spicy, that then when someone pierces that with some vulnerability really chooses to share something that the energy changes. It's like the ball stops midair in a good way. And I really, I enjoyed watching that. I enjoyed watching him make that turn. I enjoyed, I honestly, I was like, I do.

I deserve an apology. That feels nice. She absolutely does. After all that, and he just bales and sends chase over instead. Oh, God. Stupid. Gross. Gus didn't like it.

Gus. Really? Because Brooke lays out such a strong case. Yeah. Right? And is like, you did this and this and this and this and this and just reads him the riot act and is clear and not emotional, but just like super factual about the way things played out and how cruel and immature it was. Yeah. And his answer is, you're right.

I'm sorry. And then he offers up a whole bunch of excuses. And Gus was like, I do not care about his heroin problems. What does I have to do with anything? like Gus was just so put off Like who wrote this? They thought that was a good apology And so I love seeing things

Through the perspective of these young Like when I showed him Breakfast Club He was like this is repulsive Yeah What did he think would be a sufficient apology? Did he venture? Did he say? Yeah.

Because I think it went straight into flirting It was like, you're right And I'm sorry, you want to come see me tonight? Yeah, I won't run away next time. Yeah, it was. wasn't, it didn't feel sincere to him because there was still like a flirtation in it instead of a like, I mean, I think Gus wanted him to understand the gravity of it. You know, where it's like you if you stand me up for a date saying, you know what, you're right. I'm sorry. But if you ghost someone who's

going through like trauma, like Rachel has OD'd in Brooke's apartment, her mother is trying desperately to destroy her. She just moved to town. She's on her own. Her best friend just moved out and left her. She lost this baby she wanted desperately. That's when you say, I'm so fucking sorry. That's like we bring it into like the depths of sorry.

And my little feminist son was not impressed. Well, and this really, that's so cool. And really what this is is it does feel like one of those TV moments where they're like, let's wrap it up in a bow. And it would be so much cooler to let it sit and then have him ask her out in 607. Yeah. If they can't afford 608, 609. Don't be crazy.

Yeah, yeah. I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, that's how real life works. You just want to see a sincere moment, a sincere apology, somebody just being genuine. And it takes time. It takes time. The chemistry is great, though. you two, I think like there's no need to draw it out because the audience just wants to see you guys back in a friendly space. Yeah. And so let's not belabor it. This is just, this just the Morgan's being nitpicky, you guys. No, but I appreciate it. It's really funny. Like I've got, I have this friend Tom who's always looking at the women in his life. And he's like, how did we let you all set the bar so low? He gets really upset. And I wrote down, taking the,

notes about this like you know that brook is willing to call him out on his avoidance that she does laundry list all the facts that you know the part of me that really prioritizes mental health gets that he has avoidant attachment because he has you know his own trauma his addiction stuff whatever but i literally wrote i was like ironic that she does all the work and and him getting over the bar is i'm sorry could i just try again yeah yeah that's it Like he has to do almost nothing and she's like, that might be nice. No, she gave him a note that said check yes or no. And he wrote, I'm the asshole.

Yes. Bye. Yeah, we've been conditioned to do it. We're just middle schoolers deep down. He just right over the bar. Oh, yeah. Just, I'm over here now. Brooke, however, is some kind of superhero who makes 10 capes in like an hour.

Did we notice that? Yeah. I loved this. parenting. I loved this. Yes. So hard. I've lived it. I loved watching this.

And while the men who wrote this episode have never spoken to women before, they're alien to women. They must have experienced some sort of childhood bullying or interaction like this because this was, I loved it. It was my favorite part. Yeah. it goes so much deeper than these options right that we've been taught in that you guys discuss in that first scene no you don't hit a bully you walk away it's like so you either get hit or you hit someone i don't know man what's in the middle and to see the dad figure out the middle to figure out how to come in and shift the narrative yeah and be a hero and let his son be a hero it it it's

It was just so sweet. And the fact that it managed to make all the kids be nice to each other, I was like, more of this, man. Yeah, I agree. That's the kind of thing you want to see. That's, I liked watching Nathan put his power into practice. I mean, especially because Dan Scott is fucking awesome in this episode. Every line.

I grew up with Dan Scott parents, just so you know. Like, I had a bully in elementary school. And used to make me cry all the time. And my parents were like, well, you know why they're a bully? Because their dad's a fucking alcoholic that cheats on their mom. And so they were like, so next time they come for you, you just tell them that. Right? And this is like elementary school.

And I did. And it was cruel and unusual. And you grow up and you learn empathy. And you're like, oh, Christ. Like, what a nightmare. Like, why would anyone encourage this? And so with my son, Gus gets bullied all the time. And we have very different conversations about, like, the trickle-down effect of bullying and why it happens and how to avoid it and how to remove yourself from those situations.

And so I loved that Nathan could have grown up in this Dan Scott household and been like, we're not going to repeat this cycle. We're going to get creative instead. And instead of being a threatening parent, I'm going to be the most fun parent. I'm going to be the one that shows up and somehow weasels my way. into the classroom in the middle of the day. Nathan's a good dad. He's been really figuring it out. I've really been enjoying his storyline the last couple of seasons, the way he's just,

he's the most steady climber. Mm-hmm. You know, like, I think Brooke makes huge strides, too, but there are more leaps. And it's like, I don't, I don't play video games, but whatever the one is where you're like jumping from mushroom to mushroom. Yeah, yeah. It's like, do you. Is that Mario?

She gets the peaks in valleys. Yeah. Nathan's really, like, on the staircase. He's a steady climber. It's just small increments. It's habitual change, one small step after another. I just love watching him grow. He's all grown up.

Yeah, but you guys are so hot together. Like, Haley, going back to, I'm going to punch you in your face, junior year, senior year in high school, Haley. Yeah. While it doesn't happen in real life, you guys, moms are much more passive aggressive at the pickup line or drop offline. I like seeing Haley, you know, fight. Like, who'd you fight? Didn't you fight Greenberg's X? Didn't you get that chick? Was it amazing? I thought it was DeNeil. Did I fight Nikki? No, I fought Nikki. But did you also fight Nikki? No, no, there was somebody else. There was

some other girls. She was only in it for an episode. It wasn't Nikki, but she did have black hair. I can't remember. And then I also, like, hit, I slapped Rachel. I mean, Haley is definitely does not. Poor Dineal got slapped by everyone. She just does not have a handle on her physical aggression. But this one escalated rather quickly because, yeah, I mean, I thought Haley was, I thought the first thing that mom said, I think it's better if we let them work it out themselves. Actually, it was like, you know, that's reasonable. I probably would do the same thing.

I don't know that I would want to get involved yet. But then she just started hitting below the belt and super nasty. I was like, this did not go where I thought it was going to go. And I really didn't remember doing this scene. So I just didn't remember tackling this ball in front of the church? Nope. Totally surprised. It shocked me.

But also, like, that that would happen and it would like, and that Jamie would just go to school like normal. like that's crazy yeah this preschool or kindergarten whatever the hell it is needs new administration because people are just walking into that playground walking in and out of there all willy-nilly kids are getting kidnapped in this joint that was something from the last episode i don't think i ever brought up which was the fact that dan just picks jamie up after school and they go off i'm like does this kid not know yet that he can't just go home with anybody that shows up at school?

No. Like, I'm here to take you to home today. Oh, my God. Dan, I just loved him. Hold on. You should tease him about his alcoholic mother. Scott men are inherently better. Yes.

And school was never my strong suit either. Good thing. We're both handsome. Just every wrong thing. That's it. These writers, they understood Dan. My, guys, there's going to be a gold star that goes. toward Dan waiting out front and seeing the mother

and saying, oh, sorry, I'd love to join you for your morning drink, but I'm late for a meeting with my parole officer. Murder. And the window, they understood that assignment. They understood the Dan of it all. It's really nice to see Paul having so much fun. And it's interesting, I'm realizing, as we're talking about it, that even though their storyline is so fractured, you can tell how much

fun James is having in all these scenes. And you can tell how much fun Paul is having in these scenes. And there's something really sweet about these two men. Granted, you know, Nathan in the storyline is really breaking those familial curses, but they're really having fun as a dad and a grandfather. And it's just nice. Like they've been through so much heavy shit. And they're both having a great time. And it's fun to watch. I mean, maybe Scott men are inherently. Inherently better. Like the shoe fits. It sure looks like it on that slam ball court. I'm so impressed with James's. He takes an assignment and just goes full on, throws himself fully into it. He was having so much fun. And I remember him practicing all the time and learning everything. I mean, the boys were

having a ball with that court on stage or on our lot. It was sort of like grown-up recess. Yeah. You know, like we don't get recess. And when you're shooting a TV show for our friends at home, you're at work, like, you know, there's a two-hour pre-call and you do like a 12 to 14-hour shooting day. So especially for the girls, we're there like 16 plus hours. The closest you get to recess is like, I have to pee now and you run across the soundstages and then you run back because you don't want camera to have to wait for you. And suddenly there was this court and you could like, it's like in a movie where, you know, somebody opens a door and then suddenly they're in the snow somewhere and not their backyard. Narnia? It was our Narnia. It's very Narnia and you could

just walk through this door and we had a playground. Slam ball Narnia. So it turned into like, well, it's going to take 15 minutes to relight and people would just run and jump on trampolines. I loved that. James would be a hot Mr. Tumnus, like with those fucking goat legs, no shirt. Goat legs. I don't know how that ties into this episode, but it's throwing everything else at the wall, so why not? You're having an image and now you want to run with it?

Narnia. Goat legs on the trampoline. Oh my gosh. But yeah, your whole storyline, seeing how he gets that little twinkle in his eye when Haley gets worked up is fun to watch because it's as much as like

all the storyline has been like Haley you saved him you saved him he helped her come out of her shell too yeah he's rescuing her

too just as much it it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is

Nicole and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance

of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of 10, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, it's nice to see all the little bits of spice in this episode feel fun. And when he starts to kind of poke at you about how you lost it and then you guys wind up making out in the kitchen, like, super cute. He's like, he's into spicy Haley and it's fun. I'm into you two in this. I mean, she was like putting out fires. She was being supportive wife.

She was being a bulldog with this lady. She was trying to build her own dream. Oh, Grace Potter. Grace Potter. It was so fabulous. Best. Wow. God, her voice is amazing.

She was so fun to have. Do you guys remember how like giddy we all were when she was coming? And we were like, how are we going to talk to her? How are we going to make her a friend? Should we invite her out? Is that desperate? Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should wait.

Like the excitement that we were going to get to hang out with her was so palpable. And then, I don't know, we weren't there for that series of scenes you guys did. I was like, wait, the first episode we saw. see her, she's like busking? Bussing? Yeah. Race Potter? It was so funny to me, but it, it worked. You guys, you made this thing that getting back to playing music for fun. It really, it worked. Do you remember doing that? Yeah. How'd you beat the crowd off? Yeah. Oh, God, that's another. I just meant like, how did you push, like, fans back? Well. We're unwell. boy. It's a Saturday, you guys.

We needed a very large stick. No, but like for all the fans that at this point were in season six, they would gather, but you had to make it look like a natural crowd instead of a swarm. Yeah, because the people who were going to be on camera had to sign a waiver and all, you know, you can't just put anybody on camera. But they did put up signs that were like, if you're walking through here, you may be recorded.

But yeah, we did kind of draw a crowd. It was fun. I mean, I don't know that a lot of people, who were just wandering downtown Wilmington knew who Grace Potter was unless they had promoted it, but it was kind of before social media was a thing. So I don't know if that was happening. But I do remember working with Grace and going into the studio and music was a big part of my life at that moment in time. And so that was really fun to work with somebody who was so talented and experienced. And I really admired her songwriting ability. and her, there was something that she does with her voice that's just so, it's Joss Stone does the same thing.

It's just raw. She just kind of opens up and the sound is a guttural sound. It's not like a trained thing. And it's something that as someone who grew up doing a lot of theater, I've always wanted to be able to do that. And it's a scary thing to just, it's the same feeling as screaming, but you just know how to shape the sound. And it's not a thing that you hear on stage very often unless you're Adam Pascal. And so I think it was really, it was really fun to be able to watch her in real time do that and inspired me. But we had fun on set and she was super cool. And we got to record a song

together. I had like a song on the, it wasn't on the radio, but it was on whatever, wherever people were buying. It was our soundtrack, right? Did they, is that what was CDs? Soundtrack, iTunes, all that. iTunes was a thing. Yeah, but she was a class act, just a cool girl. Did you guys ever listen to The Penguin, the radio station in Wilmington? Yeah. It was like the indie. Like Jack FM kind of.

Yeah. It was really like Michael Fronty and like they were playing Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings. Like they were playing stuff that wasn't top 40. It was kind of more like college alt rock, you know, alternative radio. And that's where I heard her for the first time. That toothbrush of my table song. that she had put out just right before she came out here. And it was like, holy shit, that girl's coming.

And Beth Crookham, who worked on our show, knew how to get her to come out. She made friends with her manager and was like, oh, we're going to have drinks at this bar in town after work. If you guys want to come, I was like, Beth, you're a genius. So we ended up going out with them. What was the name of that place? it was over by Karen's Cafe. It was right around the corner from Karen's Cafe. It was like a restaurant martini bar.

Mana? Maybe. Yeah. Was it the one upstairs? No. No, not upstairs. No, but it was, I, I remember exactly what you're talking about, about being, like, thrilled, that this person that we were listening to on the radio, that, like, and she was so legit, she had so much street cred.

But I didn't realize. that y'all were singing the song from Tangled. Oh, that's funny. Was that entangled? It was also in... That song got so much play. She doesn't sing it as Rapunzel, but I think it is the ending song,

like the end credit songs. Yeah, Mandy Moore sings it. But it also was in Confessions of a Shopaholic, the Ilo Fisher movie. Really? And then it was somewhere else, too. Like, her music manager got that song everywhere. Oh, it's trending on TikTok, right?

now. That's so funny. Listen, apparently. She's a legend. We just got news. We need to do a little video for that. She was a good little actor, too. Why didn't we keep her around? I think she left our show to go out on tour. Can we also talk about Ashley Ricards in this episode? Because she's so talented. That scene in the diner could have gone so many different ways. She really nailed it. I feel like she didn't even need any direction. I mean, I don't know. I liked Greg's instinct as a director emotionally most of the time. But she just had it. She had the instinct. I really, really enjoyed her choices. Me too. It was so fun to work opposite her. And it really, you know, we're in this sort of season of Brooks development where she's figuring out what she wants

as a person. It doesn't have to be about anyone else. It doesn't have to be about a partner. And this independence and this desire to be a parent that she finds was so sweet to explore with Angie but like you know how hard it is to act with babies like you're just managing a being and trying to keep them from crying and you know deal with diapers and whatever so to for me it felt really special to get more of that of this exploration of identity with someone I could act with and see myself in. And I think they did such a good job. And Haley pointed out so often in crafting these similarities between Brooke and Sam. They come from very different circumstances, but they have similar reactions to their versions of abandonment. Yeah, Brooks used to people

giving up on her all the time too. Yeah. And to do that with someone, it's so intimate. And I love when women get the opportunity to have, especially on shows like ours, intimacy that isn't about like, but I love him, you know? Yeah. Help me deal with this male problem. Yeah. It just was really, I don't know, I remember watching the episode gave me this sort of feeling of refreshment and nostalgia.

And I remember how cool it felt then. I remember how much fun I had working with Ashley. and it's special to really enjoy it now. Like, that feeling has lasted across, you know, more than a decade. Yeah. She's so raw on her performance. Like, a lot of the time with young actors, child actors, you know, they learn their lines with their mom or their dad. And they develop ticks, right?

Where it's like, this is my bag of tricks. Yeah, because the parent is telling them how to perform the line, the parent who is not an actor. Yeah. there's always a wink in it you know and it it felt so real her reveal that that's my mom over there and I love that they had the mom looking super happy yeah right she wasn't some destitute woman she was a perfectly happy functional person that just didn't want her and that hurt so much worse yeah and that was when the episode ended gus was like that was the best part of the episode for him as like a teenage viewer he loved that and he really connected with that character

and was like that girl's so good she's so good she's my honorable mention in this episode mine too yeah she has a she has a way of i agree with you there is there does tend to be a wink with a lot of perform, especially in an episode where there's a lot of comedy. It's really easy to just kind of keep everything light and... Like the Disney Nickelodeon training. Yeah, she could have done it like a little petulant and just me, you know, it's fine. I'm used to people giving up on me and tough. And when I watch her, I'm instantly watching a film. I'm watching a show on HBO. She is, her performance translates, it doesn't matter what format she's in. I think a lot of people as actors come into shows and you try and fit the show that you're on like, oh, is it a comedy? Is it like a really dark, intense drama? Is it, is it a teen soap? Is it a real soap? Any of those things, but her performance just translates all of it. It's like you could put her in a huge big budget studio movie with that performance and you can put her in a sitcom and you can put her in One Tree Hill and it all works no matter where, which I think is the mark of a really good performer.

She was cute. I like that kid. But my honorable mention goes to the color red, which was finally introduced to Tree Hill in this episode. Did anyone notice? Everywhere. Yeah. What was that? I don't know. Somebody just decided, like, we're done with purple, and now everything will be red.

It also made me giggle that when Peyton and Lucas get into Karen's room, it's like red and gold and satin and candles everywhere. I was like, are y'all on True Blood suddenly? Like you looked like you were in a vampire's lair. Yeah, sure. It was so bizarre. That was the stuff that like took me out of the episode because it just, everything just felt a little disjointed. So it was lots of delicious morsels, but it was like mixing Hershey kisses with, I don't know, custard. Like delicious each on their own.

I couldn't wait to see where you were going to go with that. Together's and not so much. Yeah, I didn't love it. However, there was another thing in the apartment that really weirded me out. Did anyone notice that at the end of the episode where Peyton and Lucas are in the kitchen and they're finally like pulling off all the tape and they're kissing? That on the refrigerator, there is a picture that Psycho Derek took of Peyton. In her cheer uniform.

And the cheer uniform. Stop. And it's used as set dressing in the house. What? Okay. hold on you just called that out and I remember last week there's something we didn't talk about and something is going on with set dressing in this season because the psychoderic picture is in 607 and in 606 that mirror that I hated the most brooks like assault mirror with the words

Peyton changes the words for her but the handwriting is the same like the same person did Brooks handwriting and Peyton's handwriting. And I was like, you guys, come on. Do they not know by now that our fans were real and present and paying attention? They're detectives, you guys. Our fans are detectives? And I'm just like, are there so many sets to manage and six seasons in? Are there so many pictures of us that people are forgetting that like some of those pictures were taken by people who went to prison for assaulting the people? The pictures are out of like, you really should have been in a file. It's got to be a different photo. Why isn't it in a photo? Why is it in a photo?

of Peyton and Lucas and like it's all bad maybe we just had a new department head or some new people came in or something because the colors were different like everything started to shift and look a little bit different so maybe but it still should have been in a file that blows my mind that that photo was on the fridge I did not catch that right over their shoulder as they're kissing yes it's right behind you it's like a haunting I didn't like it It's like an orb in the corner The last time

Payton was on house arrest Was when she was held hostage Uh Oh my gosh Gross It's It's It's

It's It may look different But native culture Is very alive My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges

We aim to explore that culture It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes. or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a Rosebiz. stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries.

This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can we discuss the freeze frame on Jamie? Why did they do that? Why? I don't think we've ever done a freeze frame. Have we?

Also, the kids walk into camera. He's doing a whole walk toward the lens. Why not just let him walk into camera and fade to black? The freeze frame that is like 1992, like the TV version of Mrs. Doubtfire, what are we doing? Yeah, it should have been like, br-d-d-d-d-d-you- know when they do the little. Oh, like the reading rainbow logo. Yeah, the little text goes over his head.

Honestly, if they would have done that, it would have at least been like a shtick. This was just so weird. Just making choices. You know, sometimes you just want to make some choices as an artist, and this was one. We don't do like call-ins on our show, but this is a moment where I'm like,

I wish the phone would ring and Greg Prange would be on the other end and we'd be like, tell us who made you do that. Yeah, watch you too. They ran out of footage. No, yeah, I bet that that's what happened. They ran out of footage. Like somebody said cut too early or somebody walked in front of the frame or just something happened and they didn't have enough, they just didn't have enough camera runway.

I think that has to be it, right? And our fan base was so consistent. Like we had the two million views every week that they were like, listen, they're not going anywhere. Make it a freeze frame. You know, it's not going to piss anyone off. We didn't talk about Mouth and Milly, you guys. They were so sweet.

And again, to see people having fun, I know I keep coming back to that word, but when she wakes up, especially because the episode opens on Peyton being, the episode opens on Peyton dreaming and the cage and the thing and you're like, wait, what's going on? And then she wakes up, Millie waking up, not understanding quite where she is, like what state she's in what's happening and then realizing he's home it it pierced my heart in the sweetest way I love watching these two together I love watching them be romantic and laugh and their chemistry is so good yeah they're just the best I was thinking about her future storyline of becoming a cocaine addict what boy stop stop and I'm just watching this sweet face

and their sweet relationship and what a solid person she is. And I'm like, on what planet does someone who is so, who has such a solid character? Like a moral character, I mean, you know, or, you know, you know, how does she become, how does she get there? It just seemed, it pissed me off in advance, because it just seems so unreasonable. You should have stayed in Omaha, kid.

Yeah, Tree Hill, that'll, yeah. It's going to get you. That fashion industry, it'll get you. Oh, man. She has no idea. There's this little vixen at work. Lee played that well. Did I tell you about my girlfriend?

Did I tell you about my girlfriend? Did I mention my girlfriend? My girlfriend's the reason I'm so healthy. Yeah. Did I mention? Love that he came back and they offered him the job too before he could even ask for it. That was fun. Yeah, it's nice to see Lee have some screen time.

He just brightens my day whenever he's on. camera. I like that he's doing well at work. I like that he's being appreciated. I want to talk about Haley's work schedule because I loved, loved the haiku. I loved that scene. Brooke storming in, taking the wallet and the sunglasses. But the haiku came so fast and it was so clever and it was delivered so well. I loved the haiku. And I was like, is she only teaching one period a day because in our timeline she's like at home in the middle of the day yeah she's too good of a teacher to waste on one period of day brooks making capes 10 capes in an hour haley doesn't have a job except one class except she does it's so confusing yeah nathan happens to

be everywhere all at once also somehow so does dan we're all time what difference is what is time What is time? Do people have you write that haiku out? I feel like that's like a little tree hill sound bite that I've heard over and over again. No. I actually completely forgot about it. I wish I was that sharp. I wish I had that kind of sense of humor like really quick.

You have that hill like really quick. It's good. There's too many syllables to figure out. No, that's why I was dazzled by it. I was like, this is incredible. I love it. Okay. We have a fan question from four.

Grace, she says, have you ever noticed that Brooke and Sam have a similar moment like Karen and Brooke when Brooke moved into Lucas's room? Do you think Brooke is channeling what she wishes was done for her when trying to parent Sam? Absolutely. I think that's sort of what we were talking about earlier, right? They come from different sets of circumstances, but they both struggle with this feeling of not enoughness from not being wanted from being easy to leave by their parents yeah and having karen show up for brook in high school really shifted her self-worth and i think that's part of the reason that brook and hayley talks so much about how brook and sam are similar how you know you'll

say to me i think you can get through to her and i like that brook keeps trying, that they can have these serious conversations that she can try and fail in a moment like she does in the cafe when Sam says, that's my mom. And she has no idea what to say. How could you? You don't know how to be prepared. This isn't actually, yeah, it's not actually your teenager. You don't know this kid very well. But she won't give up and she figures it out. And so she goes, okay, if this wild child keeps leaving my home in the middle of the night and goes and sleeps in this car. I don't understand why, but I'll just meet her there. That's how I'll show up. Yeah. You know, she figures out how to show up for someone who doesn't know how to ask for what she needs

and who has no practice with people showing up for them and offers a new way forward. And that's what Karen did for her. Karen offered her home so she could stay in her community with her people. Yeah. You know, finish high school her way. And offered her boundaries as well. And not. not in a way that was containing. It was actually creating more freedom. Yeah, and you say it, kids need structure. Kids need it, but we need it even as adults. And there's this way, I think, that we're starting to see Brooke figure out how to show up for Sam and help raise Sam.

Also, in a way, helps Brooke raise herself. Oh, the reparenting you do in your parenting is. bananas. Yeah. Bananas. Because you realize all the stuff that you were told

as a kid was too hard. Like the excuses you heard from grownups like this is too hard then you do it and you realize

no it's not. This is actually like a joy to be this child's confidant. This is a joy to be this child's security. And it's

reparenting yourself while you try to be dependable for these little animals. And I like seeing modeled behavior. I think that's really important with kids. And so you see Nathan doing it in this episode. The drunk mom is the one that's like, let them sort it out on their own. But the problem is a kid that's never seen it doesn't know what it looks like. So they can't sort it out on their own. So both Brooke and Nathan are modeling the behavior that they wished for.

and it's, you know, it's effective on the kids that they're dealing with. I love that. That's a great point. Yeah. Kids can't sort of that on their own. Did people not watch the first four seasons of our show? We're not reliable at all. That is one of the hardest parts of parenting, I find, because I always felt like I was given so much, so many answers.

Every time I had a problem, it was like, oh, here's exactly what you should do. And it kind of eventually I started figuring out. that as nice as it was, you know, well-intentioned, but parents aren't in our classrooms with us. They're not engaged with the students and the people that we are in the same way at that age. And the advice didn't always work. Almost hardly ever did it work. And I had to figure out my own way of doing it. And there was something about, like, the autonomy of that that I do, I try and give Maria that. Like, I'm here. I have. ideas. If you want my opinion, I'm happy to give that to you. And of course, there's safety

issues and things. You know, some things, there's always like a progression of where the line is for that. But I think it's important for kids to be able to have the space to experiment with trying to figure things out and fail. They have to try it and fail. And if you don't ever have an opportunity to fail, I don't know how you develop your character. I don't know how you I don't know how you learn. And then it affects your confidence and your ability to decision make. Well, I love that Sam got this one boundary,

breakfast at seven, and just found the exact work around. She did. I'm following the rule. Brilliant. You weren't specific enough. So good. That's such a teenage thing to do, too.

That was perfect. Let's spin a wheel because Sophia's got to go. I do. I've got to jump. We don't have a hell of a day today. It's going to be a great Saturday. Get into it. Oh, Lord.

Oh. That's a good one. Who is most likely to say I love you to a one-night stand? Oh, gosh. Oh, boy. It's me. It's me. I did.

And now I have a 13-year-old and a 5-year-old. Oh, yay. Shit worked. By the way, he said it first. So. He said it first. It's me. I love love.

I love so hard. I love you admitting that about yourself. And it makes me giggle because I realized that the first person who came to mind when we read the question for me was Bevin, but not like actual Bevin, like Bevin's character. The character. Because I could immediately see the scene and someone being like, like, thank you. You know? Like just pure comedic gold.

Yeah. But I love that the real, I love that the real life version of that led to all of this for you. That's just, that's great. That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard. I loved that big, oh. Right away.

I also love being impulsive and I'm stubborn enough to commit to my impulsiveness for life. Love it. Hey, what do we have next episode? What happens next? Season 6, episode 8, Our Life is Not a Movie or Maybe. What?

I don't think I know what that means, but I don't either. Into it? Sounds dramatic. All right. My life is not a movie or maybe. Maybe. Okay. All right.

Thanks for joining us, guys. Thanks, friends. Thanks, everybody. Love y'all. See ya. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.

Or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queen, drama queen. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.