Drama Queens - The Perfect Myth • EP212

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

Brooke’s first job is at the one and only Carl’s Crab Shack. Whether it was exciting or cringe-worthy, everyone has a memorable first job story and the Drama Queens are sharing theirs.We all know the classic stereotypes behind cheerleading, but there’s more to it than meets the eye. Hilarie reveals her personal take, and you will discover the ways she’s still cheering for the right team today. She might just change your mind about cheerleading…And finally, Sophia is on the hunt for the iconic red couch from Karen’s Café…Who has it?! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion with your tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Ladies and gentlemen, season two, episode 12, between order and randomness.

Okay, here's the quick. The quick rundown is that Nathan tells Haley about his past. Oh, gross. But Haley continues to keep her emails with Chris the Secret. Sorg. That's a good callback. Karen decides to make Lucas's life as miserable as possible till he takes the heart test. and she asks Andy over while his house is in contractor's hands

and Dan hosts and even cooks for a dinner with Keith and Jules. Ooh, baby, there is a lot of cat and mouse in this episode. I don't know how many people were super waiting for this episode in particular, but I really enjoyed this episode. It's picking up from a lot of the drama that we left off with with Anna and Peyton in the last episode and Felix and Brooke, a lot of drama with Keith and Dan, and Deb and Jules and, I mean, guys, that dinner scene when Keith and Dan,

when Dan invites Jules and Keith over for dinner with Deb and then he's just playing Cat and Mouse the whole night. Okay, we'll get into it. He's such a predator. That was like, he is. He's so conniving. I know, but he does it so well that it's just so delicious. He's a good villain.

He's such a good villain. And we'll get into that. Well, you guys will get into it. Because I have a flight to catch. So I'm only here with you guys for a few minutes. Give us our marching orders, boss. You tell us what you want to talk about. Listen, this was the episode where Anna said that thing that we talked about in the last episode.

Look at all these people. They figured out what they want and they managed to find it. So I just thought that was just so interesting. You know, you can listen to our last episode. Wait. What did we call it? What did we call it? The myth.

What was it? The perfect myth. We said it should be the title. The perfect myth. Perfect myth, this idea. And we all do it. We all do it. Brooke does her Norma ray in this episode with the lobsters.

The lobsters. Oh, my God. You and the lobsters. That was hilarious. I totally forgot about the lobsters. That's so good. I got crabs at Carls. Good God.

And when he's like, I could get crabs anytime I want. When you guys are all threatening to find. It's kind of... Gross. Oh, my God. That doesn't mean what you think it means, sir. Nope, not at all. Lucas seems to be always stuck with people marriage bombing him.

Like, big surprise, surprise. We're getting married. The look on his face. I feel like we need... I feel like we need a... Oh, my God. I feel like we need a montage of Lucas's face every time someone tells him we're getting married or we got married. Somebody make that, please.

That's what we want. And this little fun thing, this was the appearance of the phrase Haley Bob, which the first time we ever heard this, and Lindsay McKeon says it as Taylor, but the thing was in the script, it was Haley Bop, like it was a little nickname. And this is a very little known fact because I don't know how, at some point in the writer's room, it spun out and into somebody decided Bob should be. Haley's middle name as like a joke, as like, I don't know, just because why not? Lucas Eugene, Haley, Bob. And so because the way that she said it, they were like, well, she said Haley

Bop, but everybody went, oh, no, no, nobody will ever notice. We'll change it to Bob. And so it showed even on the subtitles on the TV, because sometimes I have those on when we're watching together because I don't want to have it up too loud. And it said Haley Bob, but I knew. It's so weird, Joy. Like, it's so weird. And it's so weird? Yeah. I mean, as someone that gave my daughter a boy name, I appreciate it. I appreciate that kind of like dual, masculine, feminine energy.

But Bob lacks formality. And Haley's such like a... Robert? I couldn't have been a Robert. Right. Come on. Right. Haley Robert.

That's a lot of first names, baby. It is. I know. So that's kind of fun. Bob. That's the tattoo we should all get. Just like, so it's so random and non-sequitur, people are like, what? But my dad's name is Bob.

So then people will be like, you got your dad's name tattooed on your body. Is that weird? Did he feel like it was a nod to him? He was just like, thank you. No. Oh, okay. I don't think so. No.

That's funny. That's when you know that the writers are working until like 2 o'clock in the morning because someone got punchy and was like, you know, it'll be funny. This will be really great. too well my gosh well friends i have a flight to catch today so i'm not going to be in this whole episode but i love you guys and talk amongst yourselves we've got our orders we'll see you soon bye baby be safe kate it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aimed to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story.

along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

intense the the constant back and forth and and and the anchoring really of the tension in this episode between what dan is doing to keith jules and lucas and deb and what taylor is doing to haley and nathan it is can i just tell you the only safe space in this whole episode was brook and felix like they were the only like gentle space in the whole episode oh Okay, well, so let's start at the beginning. Like, Brooke is getting, is this her first job? I think it's Brooke's first ever job. I love that.

I love that. Looking at Carl's Crabshack. Your first job should be embarrassing. That just seems like part of the deal. I also just love the start. She's so unwilling to give up. She is relentless and willing to be open and say, listen, this is the reason I need this job. I'm not giving up my car. You know, I'm

great with people. Just trust me. I'll be a good hire. And he says, well, you know, you can't be a waitress. I have a PR job and she's so excited. Honestly. Just like, oh, PR. That's what I'm an expert at. I'm fantastic at this. Also, I look great and red was my favorite of Brooks. The silver lining of the whole situation. What was your first job? God, I had so really early on I started being a babysitter for kids all in my neighborhood. I was always taking care of other people's kids. I eventually became, you know, like a counselor in training and a camp counselor. But I would have to...

I can totally see you as one of the real babysitter club girls. Like, oh my... It just like hit me. I loved those books. Yeah, I bet you did. You were definitely like the cool one. All right. I see it.

Yeah. Yeah, one of the two little boys that I eventually was like closer to being a nanny a babysitter for when I was in high school invited me to his wedding like oh my neighborhood kids were just they know they were just the sweetest um but job job like because watching kids was fun for me i had to do job jobs working for my dad every summer and i was so mad i was like everyone's going to the mall and i have to like run film and edit stuff and you know go go to the photo lab and hold reflectors and repaint floors and take out the trash. Like my dad was like, oh, you're the boss's kid.

You think you're getting any privileges? I'm going to give you all the jobs nobody wants to do. Yeah. And I did them. I was basically like a PA for years every summer working at the studio. That makes so much sense. I mean, that's kind of how jobs used to work. You would apprentice under someone in your family until you became a master yourself.

It's probably why you're a good director because you know exactly what you want to look at. Yeah, that's true actually. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a... I wish I hadn't been, I wish I hadn't been such a salty teen and I'd actually paid attention to the technicality of cameras. People are like doing like Vogue shoots. You know, it's like super glamorous. Yeah, and I was just looking around like, I can't believe I have to be here.

And now people will say, oh, well, you know, your dad's a photographer. So how do I, how do I reset the ISO on my camera? And I'm like, I don't know of what you speak. I don't know what that means. I wasn't paying attention, guys. know how to set up a shot, but I have no idea how a camera works. I'm so sorry. Yeah. There's still time. Baby, there's time. You've got like 300, 40 more jobs in you. Yeah. I got a job. You could, you could work in Virginia when you were 15 if you had a workers permit.

And so literally, like, the second I was able to work, I filled out whatever paperwork I could. Because I was about that money, honey. That's like what I was. into. Oh, yeah. And the place where all of the, like, cool dudes worked was the sports authority. And I was like, well, I want to be there because I feel like it was all the dudes on like, isn't that terrible that I just wanted to work where the dudes were? It's whatever. I get it. It was like all the track team and the soccer players and they were like cool and, you know. So I went and I applied for a job and the guy that worked there was so gross. melly old gym. He had this toupee with like the glue would run down his head and he was so

mean. And I would get in trouble all the time because I never did add on sales. They would have secret shoppers. And they're like, you have to do an ad on sale, Hillary. And so I'd always be scored really poorly. But I just think ad on sales are tacky. Like if someone wants to come in for a pair of shoes, I'm not going to offer that. That's all they want. Come on. Don't ruin someone's day. And so I started carrying around whistles because I was like, if I have to do an ad show, on sale. I'll just start doing whistles. And so that was like my thing. I'm like, do you want to whistle with that pair of bike shorts? But it was a creep job for a young girl because there was guys, they were like guys that would come in and be like, hey, where are the speedos? And then they'd like

call you into the dressing room to be like, how does this look? And you're just like, man, I don't know. I'm a kid. I don't want to look at that. No. And then in that shopping complex, this was like a major scandal. There was a guy that was obsessed with, like, teenage girls' feet, and he would go from shop to shop and, like, want to look at your feet. And it was so weird. But I had, like, one friend that worked at the Staples and another one that worked at, like, the supermarket. And we'd all compare notes. We're like, is the foot guy back? Girls, it's scary for teenage girls to go out into the workforce. I mean, we had a felon that worked in our back room who, like, said, he's like, oh, no, I definitely murdered this guy. But I got. got off on a technicality. And he was always like, I've said this. Like he was like, you look like Nikki Kidman. For girls to go out into the workforce, it is frightening. Yeah.

Boys just get to go to work. Girls have to go into environments where they're under threat. Yeah. And people, some people will roll their eyes and say that's an exaggeration. It isn't. No, my brothers have. My brothers all worked in the same shopping complex. Not one of them had the foot guy come after them.

Yeah, exactly. It's like grown men, just stop it. Stop it. Yeah, don't be a weirdo. Let us go to work. Well, let us just dress as crabs and do our job. Yeah, man. And organize like Sally Field.

God, I loved that. I loved having that moment because what I realized it was for Brooke, as much as creepy Carl sounds like your boss from the. Smelly old gym. Oh, Carl was just a smarmy guy who knew he could take advantage of young women who were in shitty situations and there is that line in the episode

that sometimes people do crazy things when they're desperate. And, you know, it cuts to Jules trying to figure out what to do, but it's true of really the both of us in this episode. Jules and Brooke are having this kind of mirrored experience in the same way that you see, you know, Dan and Taylor having a mirrored experience.

And I loved seeing Brooke awaken to the potential of her mind and igniting that justice flame. That was one of those places where I was like, oh, they're starting to pull me into this character. Exactly. Exactly. We've all gotten those moments, like Joy with her music. And, you know, like I've said me with slowing down with Jake and the bisexuality and stuff like that, like I felt very seen.

like you organizing, you being a leader, like them tapping into that part of you is so rewarding to watch because it's not even Brooke. It's like, that's my friend Sophia. She's here to burn down. I'm ready. I brought the torches. Started with a crab shack. I brought the matches. Yeah, man. But, but, but, but, and, and, and what I like is that you see the, the, the dynamic shifting, even between her and Felix. When she's telling him what's up, when she says, stop it with the money, I'll make my own money. I'll figure out all of this myself. I want to be independent.

I don't want to be like my mom. And in this episode, she gets this job, and she knows it's wrong. She knows it must be illegal to not give people breaks. She knows it's not right that they have to rent their own costumes. It's ridiculous. And he says, go the legal route, and she does all the research. She pulls up the information on OSHA. She gets versed in what is legal in the state and what unions can do.

And it makes her feel good. And you can see it even when he jumps behind her on the bed and is like, well, what are we doing? Okay, I'll help. She's got a project and it's for her. And then she decides she wants to be the class president. I love it. It's so sexy. I love it.

It's so sexy that he helps, though. Like, I, that is my favorite part about any relationship, whether it's a romance or a friendship, or a relationship with your family members, like being collaborative on something. something is so intimate and awesome. And this is like the first time I really liked Felix. Me too. These last two episodes all of a sudden I'm like, oh. I get it.

I get it. He's handsome and now he's helpful and fine. He can stay. Well, and he's dropped the like bad boy facade. Yeah. Which is so refreshing. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm still confused as to why he got mad at Lucas for breaking up

with Anna. But the end result is this, like, lovely friendship between Anna and Lucas that's happened. And I think it's very important to show a boy being supportive of Anna's exploration because a lot of times that genderline gets drawn. And it's like, oh, this is something I can only talk about, you know, with girls or this is, you know, this bro talk. Um, him being like a thoughtful, sensitive listener that isn't making it perverse or isn't like turning it into a Maxim article

is good. Lucas had some really lovely moments in this episode. He really did. And I loved the parallel of them going for these walks. The first walk during the day along the river by the river court.

And he does make a joke. He's like, ooh, I'm picturing it. Yeah, but he's like... But he's joking. He makes it so clear that he's joking. Yeah, he makes it so... so clear that he's joking. Chad did such a good read on that. And what's nice is it allows her rather than feeling exposed to tease him and be like, ugh, don't be such a guy. Because this is

part of what she's afraid of, is that people are going to tokenize her experience. Yeah. And then later, when they go on their second walk at night down on the riverfront, and she looks at all the people. It's what Joy said last week. She says, look at all these people. They know what they know what they want, they have it figured out, it's such an iconic, or perhaps that's not the right word. It's a timely confession. At the time that we were representing this on screen, there was still a lot of societal talk of, you're one or the other, and if you say you're by, you're just, you know, I think it was a sex in the city line. Oh, if you say you're by, you're just on the train to gay town. Like, ew, bisexuality is an identity. Some people are very, very,

drawn to both sexes, good for you, by the way, double your dating pool. The world is literally your oyster. And at the time, why wouldn't you? At the time, it wasn't something people were as comfortable with or as honest about as we are now. And I love looking back and seeing how beautifully Daniela played this person, just trying to figure out who she is and worrying that something's wrong with her that she can't check a box. But by the way, her finally checking a box on the dating profile was huge for this time. Huge. I don't think kids now can appreciate what, like, a major deal it was, you know?

Major. People's careers were being imploded over being outed during these years, you know? And there were, like, certain actors that came out and they were told, like, oh, you'll never play straight again. And, you know, and so there was a lot of trauma around speaking your truth or talking about your sexual identity. So for our show to kind of have a safe space where people could put their toe in and be like, oh, well, it's okay in Tree Hill. Like, can it be okay in my world too? And I liked that we didn't make it seem too easy. We didn't just say, oh, look, here's this by character, and everyone loves her and accepts her.

We allowed for the journey to be what the journey of coming out has been for so many people. I'm scared to tell my family. People have made up things about me. They've said things about me. Rumors have spread. I feel bullied. I feel terrified to own my identity. And hopefully the first person you tell or the second person you tell, the people who you feel like you can trust will love you and be patient with you and say,

I'm here. You've got me. Let me know when you're ready to keep going. That is an experience that so many of my friends had. So many of us had. And I really, for all the things our show did wrong, I loved how this was handled. I wonder who was consulting on this. Do you know what I mean? I know. Because we weren't really privy to what was going on in L.A. at this time, necessarily. Yeah, I'd be curious. Because it is done. tenderly.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that scene you reference when she decides to click either and she has this. Remember the either button was brand new? The either button was brand new. That was a big deal. Well, by the way, looking back, there's only a male female. There's no non-binary option.

But there's seeking male, female either. And the look of pride when she clicks it. And you said, oh, I love this. You know, it was one of the moments that you exclaimed over while we watched it. Well, I remember, like, when I first moved to New York and you'd get, like, the village voice or you'd get local newspapers, and there were always classifieds in the back in the paper days, back in the Stone Age. And I remember moving to New York and seeing women seeking women and men seeking men and being like, oh, my God. Like, I finally arrived in a city that's like, like, open-minded. Yeah, open.

And I remember just like kind of thrilling over that because I didn't know that that was, you know, that it existed outside of my small town in Virginia. It was, it was cool. And so for us to show it on national television to an audience of teenagers, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. You know what I like about that point you make? Because I've talked a lot about how privileged I felt as a young person to grow up in a house where my. father was an artist. Yeah. Because it meant that I grew up in a very diverse, very queer community. Yeah.

And I know not everybody has that privilege. And I know one of the things we bonded about early was that community being the best home for us. Yeah, safe. And what's always been really interesting to me with, you know, your experience or the experiences of fans of our show who've opened up to us or even the experience of advocating politically is there are people who come from, you know, places like you're describing small town in Virginia who maybe don't think they'll have anything in common with us who say the

things we don't love to hear like, well, you know, you go to the cities and everybody's queer and everybody's this, that, and the other, and it's like, it's like, well, actually, you coastal elites. You coastal people. And it's like, well, actually, the cool thing about a city, if you come hang out in it is that everybody lives side by side and everybody just lets everybody else do what they want to do. Everybody's happy. There's a reason people who live in communities that are diverse vote for everyone who could be considered other than them to have the same rights they do. Yeah. Because when you know people, you know people and you love people. And it was nice, I thought to represent that reality, not on a show that took place in New York or Chicago or L.A. or Miami, but on a show that took place in a small town in North Carolina.

That was probably the most important part, is normalizing it in a way. Because we've talked about all the other teen dramas that take place, you know, in like hyper, you know, they're not realistic settings. It's all wish fulfillment. And if our show was anything, it was like, these kids are average until we all had like. amazing careers later until we all turned in of the superstars. You know, Lucas is a very good friend to so many people in this episode. The Anna thing is wonderful because she's the one place where he can dump all the things

he's handling. He is dealing with his mother inviting another man into the home, which is massive. He's dealing with Keith, finding out that Keith slept with Deb, like bomb shes. And that Jules...

Especially after Keith proposed to his mom. Right? Right? And then... Keith proposes to Lucas's mom and then sleeps with Lucas's mom's best friend who also happens to be married to Lucas's real dad. Like, this sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer. What's happening? And then the new bartender that works at his mom's bar just happens to be Keith's new girlfriend who he finds out is like not an escort but close.

you know, like she's being paid to date Keith. And it's a ton of information for a young person. It's a ton of information for an old person to process. It's a lot. And you know what you just reminded me of? We were talking about this when we watched. It's a fascinating parallel. Because it is, that's a lot for a teenager to try to make sense of.

And especially because Jules says to him, it's real. I met Keith because of Dan, but I love Keith. I love him. please. And what I loved was the scene where Luke and Nate meet at the River Court. And Nate doesn't know what Lucas is talking about. But Lucas starts asking Nathan about how his setup with Haley to screw over his brother became real.

Because it's the same thing. Dan and Jules are doing the Keith what Nathan was using Haley to do to Lucas. So Lucas is saying, well, maybe you can lie a little to protect someone if it turns out okay in the end. Whoa. Haley almost left Nathan when she found out, even though Nathan had really fallen in love with her. So you see how this boy is trying to make this insane circumstance relative to what he knows in any way. It's a really well-written episode. Well, yes.

And you mentioned this. The parallels between Taylor and Dan are... Sociopaths. I think that's what's so exhausting about this episode. Is, like, we can deal with one Dan, but two of them? Come on. Two Dan's is a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. They revel in making other people uncomfortable. And, like, we've been around those people. Like... Oh, yeah. Gross. They revel in making other people. people uncomfortable, they both, I kept getting the vision while we were watching the episode

of just twisting the knife. They're both knife twisters. Have you ever been around those people that want to get caught? Like, it's like their mother didn't reprimand them when they were little, and they're like, I want you to yell at me. And that's what it feels like both Dan and Taylor are just like, somebody, somebody stop me. You know, I'm a bad baby. Yes. And it, you know what it feels like as well to me watching Taylor in this episode the way she continues

for what reason after the last episode we'll never know she continues to throw herself at Nathan to get undressed in front of him to tease him sexually there are people

and I think we see them more represented archetypalian stories as women because people love to villainize women there are people who really get off on getting married people to cheat on their spouses with them.

Weird. Like, and I've, I've seen it. Like, I've, I've been around it. I, I will not say who, but I, years ago, I was around someone who loved being able to get men cheat on their wives with her. What? And I was, like, observing this whole thing, just going, what the fuck is this dynamic? But for people who are, like, mortally wounded and think they're broken.

Yeah. There's no higher compliment than I'm so special. this person would blow up their life for me. Oh, God. And I think that's the dynamic that they're writing for Taylor in this episode. And it gives me the, like,

it gives me like the chill bumps on my bones, not on my skin, you know what I mean? Oh, gross. I mean, she does compare herself to that scorpion where it stings itself to death, you know? Yes. It's interesting that they chose, like, a metaphor like that that Haley very quickly debunks

and it's like, that's not true. Like, it doesn't do that. They couldn't have found something that actually harms itself, you know, like a fox that chews its leg off and a trap. The reason I kind of liked that, though, was that it was such a Tudor Girl moment for Haley.

It gave the moment of comic relief in a scene where Joy is playing so much pain and so much fear. God, she was beautiful in that scene. Her tears. And when Lindsay, you know, when Taylor reaches over and rubs Haley's cheek to wipe her.

tears away. I was like, oh. And that's where you see the, you see the softness in Taylor. You see the girl under the scorpion. And you want her to be that girl. Well, it was in the same way that sometimes we root for Dan. You want her to be that girl. That was the scene where when she went to wipe the tears, like, oh my God, she looks just like Bess in this scene. Like, yes, you said that. The similarity between Lindsay and the actress who plays Joy's mother doing that same. physical action of like comforting haley they look so similar and so you can see the the family in that interaction and the beautiful beautiful shot i mean bethany runy again episodes directed by women just have something bethany runy did that shot of them both from behind sitting on the

balcony ledge in their layered t-shirts with their tattoos sticking out and you saw the sameness You saw how different they are. One's tattoos symbolizes, you know, self-sabotage and one symbolizes young love. But these two sisters, it's that same thing. They're kind of meeting. They come from opposite ends of the circle and they meet in the middle. And that's the stuff that you go, oh, please let it be that. Let them find their way.

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other. Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. a good director. I've worked with her on a couple different shows. She's one of those people that you just text with every once in a while where you're like, I'm so glad you're still in my life. And she was a really safe space for us on this show. Like, she was a good person to be able to turn to. And, you know, there's so much darkness in this episode. Do you ever think that our visiting directors would get scripts and just be like, well, Jesus, like, what? How do I, How do I navigate this? This is a lot of,

this is a lot of trauma here. You know. I think what I, yeah, it must be intense to receive that. Especially if you haven't been able to watch all the episodes beforehand. They hadn't aired yet. Yeah. So how do you get a script like this where you're like,

what's going on at this dinner party? Like who, what, when, where, how? Yeah. They must give them at least a couple scripts on paper before. But, oof, yeah. I'd want to be able to see the episode to really know what the dynamics are. I mean, that dinner party... You and I were both, like, gross, make this end right now.

It was so uncomfortable. And Keith sitting there thinking Dan is poking at him over Jules and Deb. And Jules sitting there knowing Dan is poking her over her and Keith, and everyone's in a misdirect, and poor Barbara is just sitting there trying to make it right. And by the way, honorable mention for that tube top and matching scarf. You guys, I kid you not. I was like, I want to wear that outfit now. I'm going to order a tube top and a scarf now.

And I'm excited about it. I'm doing the next podcast of the scarf. You won't even see the tube top. I'll just crop my... You'll look naked. Yeah. Hillary's in her scarf again. Yes.

And I guess I was curious. I'm like, why is Deb involved in this? because I know that they were kind of working together to break up Nathan and Haley, but this seems like out of that pact. Like, are they like a couple again? It seems like they're working on getting back together, especially when you open on the, you know,

especially when you open on the moment where Dan says, let's invite them over, and he's researching recipes, and Deb is, like, looking at him, like, oh, my God, he's going to cook dinner. And then she says, this isn't just a way for you to pile on Keith, is it? And, and Dan, God, what a line.

He says, well, you and Karen both slept with me and your friends. Oh, my God, I wrote that down too. Oh, gross. And so Deb is kind of like, well, I guess I should give it a shot. And then, of course, the dinner starts and Dan is awful. That's it. It's like, you've got to have, like, you just got to call it. Like, Deb, 10 minutes in should have been like, you know what?

Uh-uh, uh-uh. We're going to, I'm going to go light something on fire in the kitchen so that we can end this. Yeah. I would have loved it if she was like, Dan, you said you weren't going to do this and you're doing it, you're going home. Like, she needs to just be a mom and be like, everybody out. Right. He's grounded. The cops are showing up.

You all got to go home. Who did Luke say there's a line you don't cross? I wrote that down. Did he say that to Keith? Oh, yes. About Deb, about Deb. And you and I both were like, tell me more. Tell me more, Lucas.

Remember you guys, Hillary literally shouted, Lucas is telling Keith about lines you don't cross. you know and he's like he's like that's Dan's wife and and Hillary and I are sitting here going yeah and we're and Peyton and Brooke are best friends yeah we're like sister wives friend um Lucas has Keith on a pedestal and yeah good he needs that person to have on a pedestal yes but I think by also witnessing the person you look up to fail a little bit yes it validates your own failure. Like, it's almost like Lucas needed to see that his hero did the same dumb shit he did. Yes. So that he's like, oh, well, Keith's not a bad guy. So maybe I'm not a bad guy.

Like, maybe we all just do this. I think it's so important. And something that I love in this episode, Craig Sheffer does this so beautifully as Keith. He holds space for Lucas's upset as a teenager. When he tells Lucas what happened with Deb, he admits to him, it's such a strong choice to say, I'm not proud of what happened with Deb, and that's the only reason I kept it a secret from you. You understand that, right?

He admits to a boy that he is ashamed of his actions, and he lets Lucas go away and sit with it. Which is important. I don't like to make people change their mind right away. You know, like, sitting with information is so healthy because then you get to work out the entire journey in your own head to make it make sense. You got to give people space sometimes to process

and to figure out what it is they're triggered by in the story you're telling. And that's why I loved that Lucas came full circle with Keith came back to him and said, I've done some things I'm not proud of. He admitted his own shame. We both were running away. Yeah.

He apologized for the way he reacted because he realized they're both just people who make mistakes. But, like, honestly, poor Lucas. Like, no one tells him anything. Like, Andy just walks into his house, like, surprise, surprise. Keith is all of a sudden engaged. You know, like, everyone is just, like, dropping information on this boy. And I don't know if our writers consciously did that or it was just like a habit that was like, oh, we'll get a better reaction if we totally ambushed this child.

Well, I think they love the surprise scenes because it allows for shock value for the audience. Yeah, but I would have loved if Keith had made Lucas go out and go ring shopping with him. You know, like, that reveal of we got, we're getting engaged, we got married, we've already done it with Nathan and Haley. You know, Joy said that. So, yeah. I would have loved that slow burn of I'm going to make you as involved as possible with this. elaborate lie. Yeah, that would have been juicy.

Oh, well, woulda, coulda, shoulda. I do appreciate the Taylor redemption. You know, Dan is never redeemed. Dan just... Whereas he's going to the basketball court at the end of the episode to make things worse, right? And to involve Lucas. Taylor does the exact opposite

and gets on that computer and it's like, Chris Keller, you better scratch. Leave me alone. I don't want you. Yeah. You see her making a choice to stand up for her sister. Yeah. And I wonder if it's because as uncomfortable as it was for them.

Nathan and Haley model that the only way out is through. You got to tell the truth even if it's shitty. And Taylor's like, well, maybe I could do that. Yeah. So hard. It was probably easy. But then Haley doesn't tell the truth to Nathan. No.

Oh, she sure doesn't. She just keeps walking on that rivercourt trying to kiss him. She keeps it a secret. And she says to him, what happened in the past doesn't matter. Ooh. Girl. It's like, babe, your past was a week ago. I actually thought that was a brilliant line that they wrote for Taylor.

You're, you know, you're giving your, remember? She said, you bitching about your husband's past when you have a present. When you have a present. St. Haley is just as bad as the rest of us. Shots fired. Yeah. Well, but Haley admits some very big, she uses big language, like impactful language. And she says, this is all really confusing.

And so if you have someone you're close to that, like, always has the right answer and always makes the right decision, for them to admit, I'm confused, that's a big confession. And then she goes on to say, I'm jealous. of what Chris has. Like, confusion and jealousy are two very embarrassing things to admit. Yes. And I love that she clarifies. I am jealous of his music.

I am jealous of his freedom to pursue it. Because Haley feels like she has to choose between the husband that she loves and the career that she wants. Because the doorway to the career that she wants is a man who kissed her. Yeah. Girls, you want to dig into some harsh shit? Come on now. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And it's hard to see that there are other doors. There are doors that don't involve men. And that's a thing that's really difficult as a young person is that you do think, like, if I don't take advantage of this opportunity, there's no promise that there will be another one. And honestly, like, as an adult, I'm here to say,

yes there will be you know like if something feels bad find a different door yes and and i will say i think it is important to admit we know how scary it is to take the leap because sure there might not be another door that's reality yeah but more often than not we have learned from some things we've shared with all of you and from some things we only share with ourselves that that if you deny walking through a door that is dangerous or makes you feel bad, even if it takes a while, another door will come for you because that thing is meant for you. Yeah. The patience, the aptitude to be patient is part of claiming what you want.

Well, and if, I guess, you know, just to be personal about it, When you let that bad open door, let's just keep, we're going to play with that metaphor. Okay. When you let that exist, when you're like, okay, I guess this is the way I'm going to achieve the thing that I love, the thing that I'm passionate about, it can destroy the thing you love in a way. It can destroy you. Well, I mean, I never wanted to act again when I left the show. I was like, all right, fucking I'm done. know, like, see you later. I'm never going to do this again. And so, you know, for Haley and

her music, I don't want Chris Keller to destroy that, you know? I don't want this one opportunity to be the thing that crushes her. Yep. Because we know, because we shot it, that she's going to have so many other awesome opportunities. If she would just, like, lean into Trick, go help Peyton, man. Hello? Yeah. But I love that you say that because I think it is so important when we talk about trusting yourself enough to close, let's call it a haunted door, perhaps, to say I'm not willing to go live in a haunted house. Yeah. Dude, I had the same experience. When I left Chicago, I was like, I'm out. Like, you and I are truly when I tell you, and I will never.

forget sweet Justin Baldoni from Jane the Virgin said to me when I told him I quit my job he was like I've never met an actor who's quit a job ever actors don't do that it's so hard to get a job it is so hard to get a job it's so hard to get a job and I said well I quit a job and one of my best friends quit a job yeah you and I are the only two actors I know who've ever quit their jobs and it is such an act of self-defense to say I will no longer tolerate this thing that is literally eating me from the inside. It's like having a flesh-eating bacteria on your soul. And when I quit, I had the same experience.

I was like, I don't know if I'm ever going to do it again. There are so many other things that I love and care about. I don't know if I'm ever going to do that again. At this point, I'd rather be at the Sports Authority. You know what I? 100%. I'd rather go work for Carl. I'll wear the outfit.

I don't give a shit. I'll sing a jingle. Like, because the well was poisoned to me. And it took me a wild. to realize that there were other water towers. There were other doors that had not a shred of creepy haunting. Well, Brooke's going to find that. I love this.

She works for all of, like, two weeks. Her two-week tenure at the Crab Shack is now going to turn into student council running for office, which is exciting because we got a little, I love seeing that flyer because Erica Marsh's name is on it. I know. She's coming. I also love that Brooke was like, I'm running.

I'm going to take up all the lines across the page. And they told me to do that. They were like, they were like maybe write your name bigger than everybody else. And I was like, well, watch what you wish for. Because now I'm just going to go from margin to margin. It's a strong move. It was so fun.

Wait, also, I have a question because obviously we know, and we haven't brought this up. I want to know what it is if you know. If you remember, I'm sure you do. Peyton and Jake go on the road trip to Savannah to get Jenny. Where the hell were you? Are you, like, doing a movie or something? No, I wasn't doing a movie.

I think it was being punished for something. Or who knows? I was probably off moon and over Greenberg. Just like, hey, man. We got the episode off. You want to hang out? Hey, hey. I honestly, I have no idea.

And that was always kind of like, I don't know. We were always kind of like jockeying for our storylines. And so I'd gotten the thing I wanted. I got Greenberg back, but then I wasn't in the episode. So what were we doing at this point? You guys were, you had to be doing something. Like, let it be clear, guys. The people we worked for were not giving us days off to be nice.

There had to be a reason. Were you doing like secret life of bees or something? Like, what were you doing? No. If anything, I would get sent to do like the sun-kissed party. and like stuff like that. But I don't think we were doing that necessarily in season two. That started like season three, right?

Or did you have a big like MTV obligation? Was I at spring break? I think you were on MTV Spring Break. That's where I knew. I was like, I'm telling you you were working. When did this one air? This would have aired at the beginning of February. So I was either doing Cancun or a,

New Orleans or like I would go on these weird trips because oh or I was doing like club nights in Miami still because in season two I was still doing five days on tree hill two days in New York for MTV. And it wasn't until the end of season two that I was like I'm going to die if I keep doing this. It's not sustainable. And MTV let me out of my contract so that I could just do one tree hill. But yeah, that's where like my hair's falling out and I'm just like a fucking disaster all of season two. I'd hit my limit. So I was, yeah, probably doing something like that.

I'm okay with it, though. I like that Anna thought she was being ghosted, you know? And Lucas had to explain it. I'd be like, baby, no. Had that Jake not shown up? And something that's really nice is you being away with Jake, it gives Anna the opportunity to feel like she's being ignored. And it kind of forces Brooke to rely on herself.

and to let Felix help her because if Peyton had been home, Brooke would have just gone to Peyton. Yeah. I would have made signs. You know. I was going to say, it's why the signs were so ugly.

I didn't have you to draw them. They were so bad. I really like the actress that you worked with. Abby, who had the cute blonde haircut. She was married, she is married, to one of the guys who was in the local improv comedy scene with Cullen.

And so her husband, Garrett, was like, really good friends with Cullen. There was a pack of dude. that all did improv at level five. Like at level five? Yeah. And so it was really cool because I'd made friends with her

outside of our show and then she got cast on the show and it was... So cool. That was the fun part about shooting in a small town is that our guest stars were a lot of times

like people that we'd made friends with in real life. And so it felt like bring your friend to work day and I love that you guys got to work together. She was so pretty and cool. She was so pretty and cool.

And what I loved also, again, to sort of mirror that line, people do crazy things when they're desperate. You see what's going on with jewels, but you also see what's going on with all these other young women in this small town. You know, Abby's playing a character who's a single mom and has a two-year-old. This group of girls who've all been hired because they're young and pretty and probably pretty easy to take advantage of. Vulnerable, yeah. Get to show their vulnerability and their fear about losing this shitty job because it might be the only one available to them. And so it's so fun to see them get a win. Yeah. Well, that's why I love these like

young kids coming up now because they're like, I'm not going to work at a poverty wage. What are you talking about? No way. You have to pay us. You kids, you just get those signs out. You got us old ladies to back your play. We'll show up with our crab outfits. Organize. Unionize. Look up OSHA on the internet. It's true. No, it's good. It's empowering. And if you don't come from a family that encourages you to be a noise maker, hopefully you can find other people in your life that make you feel safe to speak up for yourself and advocate for yourself because that is a huge hurdle in anybody's young adulthood. But once you do it once, then it's like okay for the whole rest of your life, you know? It just takes a little bit of practice. Yes, I love it. And it just

brings me back to the sort of, I weirdly feel this grown-up pride looking at young Brooke being like, look at her. She's getting kicked out of her nest and she's choosing to do exactly that, to advocate and to lead. And even though it's scary, she's going to show up for other people and maybe learn to show up for herself along the way. Well, that's it. She's not being selfish about like, I'm going to fix this for me. She's like, oh, no, no, no, we're going to fix this for everyone. You know what it is? It's the cheerleader mentality. And I... Yes. So someone asked me how I got into my television show, which is a true crime documentary show. And they're like, oh, you guys are solving cases and you guys are doing this.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Innocence project organizations are solving these cases. And all these, like, lawyers working pro bono are doing all of this work. What I'm doing is cheerleading. And people talk shit about cheerleaders all the time. But there is a life skill that I learned because the focus wasn't on me. The focus is on who's on the field. And it's your job to make them feel seen and sort of.

supported and to bring as many people in as possible to raise their voices and get involved. To rally. To rally. And so honestly, like the extracurricular activities I did as a teenager, cheerleading has stupidly become like something that's very important. And it's a big part of what we do. It's, you know, using your megaphone and shining the light on somebody else. Yes.

By the way, it's exactly the same form. me, it's the reason everyone laughs about me being a camp counselor. It's wrangling everybody, pumping them up for the activity, being the leader who gets them there. It's the reason that I, so early in the trajectory of our show, started doing public advocacy work. Yeah. Because same thing. I was like, I have a megaphone and I'm going to use it. Watch this. Yeah. You know, it is, to me. I love that you had the camp counselor megaphone and I had the team. Yeah. We're a literal match made in heaven. Yeah, Joy had the microphone.

God damn. That couldn't have worked out better. We're real good. Yeah, fine. Somebody needs to draw that. You need the like hold up cheer megaphone. I need the like old school 70s actual electronic microphone. The one that sounds like this.

Yeah, and Joy needs a singer's microphone. Fans, artists, please have at it. Chop, chop, friends. Do we have questions? We want to spin a wheel? What do you want to do, baby? I want to give an honorable mention before we jump into the questions. While we do talk about Brooke Davis loving the color red and all things nostalgic from the era, that red couch at Karen's Cafe, the red couch gets an honorable mention, y'all.

Sophia, I have thought about that couch so many times. Where is that couch? I loved that couch. Who has it? If anyone knows who has that couch, can you let us know? We will buy it from you. It's a sectional, baby. Like, we could each get a piece.

Oh, I want it. I would sob. God, and I just, I remember, like, what the texture feels like on my hand. Like, I remember, like, rubbing my hand on it. It's such a sense memory. Yeah, and when we would be in there shooting and there'd be a break, we'd all go pile on it. Like, oh, God, I just missed that couch. We could even do a thing.

Maybe we find out where the couch is, and we do, like, a charity drive to get the couch back. Honestly. Not for us. Not for us. I mean, we would raise money for charity to get the couch back. I'll pay anyone for the couch. Please. Yeah, I love that couch.

There were certain pieces on set that just like, I loved. Okay, so Anna asks us, she says, when Peyton Haley and Brooke are having a bad day or going through a breakup, there's a common cure. Root beer floats or ice cream. Do all of you like root beer floats in real life? Or what is your go-to comfort food? I hate root beer more than anything. I mean, I don't hate root beer, but like. I hate it.

I don't like ice cream. Like, it's just, didn't we just talk about this? I do. I know you do. I don't know. I mean, you know that I'll be a Killwin's diehard fan until the day I'm no longer on this planet. But I got to say, dairy's also terrible for me. I have asthma.

Like, I can't be eating ice cream. It makes me sick. Oh, it makes me flemmy. I know, but I love it. Yeah. So, I don't know. If I, if I was going to pick my most. favorite comfort food in the world, it would be fah. Vietnamese noodle soup. Oh, yeah. I could eat a bowl

of fuh every single day for the rest of my life. I probably order it two or three times a week from a place down the street. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Listen, when I came to Toronto to visit you, I ordered DoorDash at like 2 o'clock in the morning and got good food and a bottle of wine. What did you get? I don't even know. It's like truffle fries and, you know, like all sorts of But I was just like, oh, this is so nice to live somewhere where there's, like, options. Yeah. That was so fun. I wish I'd known about your both place.

What do you keep on the farm? Oh, my God, I know. Well, when you come back, we'll just get it. When you're on the farm, because you are not near anywhere where you can get takeout at a random hour, what do you keep? Like, what do you always have stocked in the pantry or in the freezer that you can cook up quickly for yourself when you're hungry and you can't pick up dinner? Whiskey. Thank you to our friends at Jane Walker.

Sorry, guys. No, I have to be a responsible adult here. I'm a carbby person. Like, I am a bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, girl. So, like, bread and, like, the Kerrygold super salty butter. Yeah. I remember when I was, like, taking German in high school, as like a freshman, I just needed to learn

how to say, I like, I just, I love bread. Where is the bread? Yeah, I like, oh, I love. That's what it is. Yeah, I love bread. That's what stuck after all those years. Yeah. You me and Oprah. That's it, just sitting around eating at low for bread on one tree hill. Can you imagine?

I will never forget. I got in so much trouble once as a kid. You know, did you ever live anywhere with Avons? the grocery store vans. No, but I know what it is. Yeah, once I moved L.A., yeah. So, well, yeah, so by the Vons checkout, there's always, like, the big French loaves that they would bake for the day,

and they're like $1.99. I would beg my mom to get me a French loaf every day, and she was like, why is this kid so obsessed with bread? What's going on? And one day she finally figures out what I've been doing. I've been cutting the loaf in half, but then digging out the soft bread on the inside and leaving the crust pouch

and then I'd put it back together and just leave it on the counter. My mom was like, have you hollowed out a loaf of bread every day? You psychopath. And I'd get it out and I'd roll the little dough

into balls and eat them. Sophia, we're the perfect match because I'm a crust girl. So I'll always give you the insides and I'll take the outsides. Done. All right. Well, now we know what Brooke and I can't wait to run.

I can't wait to run a cheerleading summer camp and just have bread for every meal. I can't wait to tell joy. Done. Done, done, done, done. All right, what's our next question? Can't wait to invite you all. Yeah, our cheerleading summer camp is going to be so fun. Oh, my God, it's going to be so fun. I can't wait for the outfits. All right, back on track. Rebecca asks, oh, this is a good question for us. If the show was to reboot today, what music would Peyton be collecting and listening to? We literally just talked about this.

I know. What music would be playing in the background scenes at Trick? Literally, we just talked about this, like, 45 minutes ago. I have this new band that I'm obsessed with called Pompom Squad. Yep. Their album, Death of a Cheerleader, like, just came out. And it is... It's all on theme.

It's in my brain. I started posting about it on. on Instagram. And this sweet lead singer, like, wrote me back. And I was like, baby, I am trying to come see your show this year. I have not been to a concert in so many years. I miss them so much. Come down to the city. Let's go. She's playing at the Bowery ballroom. Okay, done. Done. I'm coming. It's sold out. We definitely have to pull some strings. I know her. We're going. Well, you know people. I know her. I think another person, I think about this so much just because of what the music did for our show. And I

think about who affects me so deeply. I just know that Tovlo would be on heavy rotation on our show and we would definitely get her to come play a trick because I know her. So let's just get all our friends. I just want all the hot girls to come play on our show and make us feel cool. Hot girl energy is what we're about. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story. along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think it's time to spin a wheel, sister.

You want to do it? Let's do it. Spin. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Okay. Who is most likely to win a pie eating contest? Well. I mean, is it me?

It might be me. No. No. You know, you know who commits and who is a good sport is Barbara Allen Woods. She, like Barbara, you could throw any. thing at Barbara, and she'd be like, yeah, I'm a Midwest girl. Like, give it to me. Sure. Yeah. Barbara would win and, like, look good doing it. I was just going to say, I would just be so happy to be eating pie. Barbara would, like, make it hot. Let's give it to Barbara. I love snacks,

but she's, she's just so sexy. Hot pie. Okay, but who on the show? Yeah. Well, I don't know. You know what it makes me think of? I can't even remember who said it. Years somebody was like, Megan Fox is so hot. She makes me want to strangle an ox. And that's how I feel about Barbara. Barbara and her little scarf in this episode. Yeah. I can't.

Can you imagine if that was Deb's coping mechanism in the episode where she's like, oh, you guys are making me crazy. I'm going to go eat this pie. All right. Barbara Deb wins. Maybe she will in the next one. Maybe. Who knows?

Our next episode is season two episode. 13. The hero dies in this one. That sounds bleak. All right. Well, what does that mean? Hold on to your hats, friends. It's going to be a doozy. Thank you guys for hanging out. Thank you. See you next week. Till next time. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-TH.H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

It's all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.