Drama Queens - The Real Life Grubbs EP 712

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Did you know Grubbs is the same person in real life as he was on your TV screens? Yup, it's true! Sophia, Joy and Rob welcome Michael Grubbs who shares his interesting story of being discovered and how his creativity helped him get to know the cast before he ever filmed OTH. Joy shares how a bad prank led to Jackson running off set in tears!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Well, hey, hey, Tree Hill fans. Welcome back to the show. You have me and Robert Puckley today and a very special guest. How are you doing, Rob? I'm doing well. It's good to see you. You too. You have, you look kind of like you just stepped off the set of grease right now. Your outfit. Describe it to the people because I'm a guy and I wouldn't be able to describe that. Well, I've got a light pink satin headband and a light pink and orange satin shirt. This is one of the wonderful things about knowing how to get ready really fast is you find, you have glamorous things in your closet. And about 10 minutes ago, I was laying in my bed with greasy hair and overnight t-shirt because I've been working from my bed all morning. I just got up a flight yesterday. I'm exhausted. I just put on the same black t-shirt everywhere. The same black t-shirt, that's it.

I will say, though, that you guys were pretty cruel having me on right after the Golden Bachelorette premiere. I did a lot of crying last night. Oh, no. Well, actually, our audience doesn't even know who you are yet. We have to tell them. Oh, ladies and gentlemen, the voice that you're hearing is Michael Grubbs, aka Waky, waky, aka Grubbs, the bartender in One Tree Hill, aka your future ghost.

Hi. It's me, it's me. It's so cool to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course, buddy. Thanks for being here. Listen, y'all got a hop on the YouTube to check out A, Joy's Cool Retro outfit, and B, just the monster glow up that Grubbs has had.

I mean, he was a handsome guy before, but you got to see what he has going on now. He looks like a man who figured it out. That's right. I'd say, Robert Buckley, someone who is literally, I mean, so many memes made of just your gorgeousness. And for you to say that to me, just based on how, you know, it's big, it's big words. So I'm blown away. Why does your skin still look exactly the same, like baby skin?

what's going on i'll tell you honestly what it is it's a setting on zoom that you can put on called make me not look like crap uh and it's it's it's an add-on i got it's pretty expensive but um uh no i don't i don't i think honestly my beard turns so white and i'm i'm allergic to die so i can't die my beard it will it burns my face off so i'm just i'm a natural guy and um i kind of i don't know maybe that's it's it's because of of the wild whiteness of my beard next to my face, and it makes me look better-skinned. Do you still have the softest beard in the world?

No, the softest beard in the world now belongs to my dog, Buster. He's, yeah, sitting here and he's way softer than I am, but that is very sweet of you to say, now I'm blushing. Aw, go ahead, Rob. I was just going to say Grubbs is using the filter that's called Doesn't Have Kids. Yeah, it is. It is. Town dogs instead of kids. It's the best way to stay young.

Oh, sleep. It'll keep you youthful. Yeah, been doing it lately. It's great. Thank you for being here today, buddy. I've been excited for you to be on. I kind of started on this podcast. Basically, I left the show and then kind of never revisited it. So when I joined the podcast, I was sort of kind of watching the show as like a first-time viewer. And so all of it, I remember some stuff, you know, but there's been a lot of surprise. and you were such a fantastic surprise this season. And I've, because the truth is, like, we didn't interact very much.

So I didn't really know your story. And it has been so much fun to watch you do your thing. And then when this episode happened, you know, and you play your first song, it was like, oh, this is, we got to, we got to bring him in for this, man. Yeah, I have so many questions for you. But actually, would you do us the honors of reading the synopsis? Here we go, synopsis by Grubbs. Episode 712, or 712, as the kids call it.

Season 7 in episode 12, some roads lead nowhere. The air date was December 7, 2009. As Nathan and Haley prepare for the family's move to Barcelona, Brooks struggles to accept Julian's reaction to Alex's crisis. Quinn helps Clay hatch a plan to win back Nathan as a client. Meanwhile, Millie's downward spiral puts her and mouth at a crossroads. and Dan Scott's pronouncement shocks Rachel and his audience. Beautiful.

No notes. All right. So new kid in high school, how did it feel coming onto the show for the first time, Wendry Hill? How did the job come about? How did it feel coming onto the set that was already kind of a well-oiled machine at that point? Like, what was your vibe?

I mean, my story is crazy. I might as well be like an astronaut that got dropped on the moon. I had no idea what I was walking into. I had never been on a film set or a television set or anything. My origin story with the show involves me playing at an open mic in New York in Brooklyn and being spotted by Shana Fuel, one of the writers on the show. And Shana, who has to this day, like I sang at her wedding. But I went to this open mic just to hang out and I saw Shana. And to be totally honest with everyone, I really wanted to flirt with her.

And I didn't know her and I was scared of her. So I asked my friend that ran the open mic to set me up to sing next. So she would like hear me sing and then I'd be confident enough to talk to her. So anyway, I've seen these songs. I went over and I was like, you know, kind of sauntered up. And she like, she was like, I'm going to stop you right there. I'm wearing a giant engagement ring. And I know that you don't see that because you're like a guy from Brooklyn.

But this is it. I'm flattered that, you know, whatever. But I want to talk to you about your songs on this show. And so the next week she brought the boss out to see. the same open mic I sang the same songs. And they started using the songs on the show. That led to basically me somehow having a relationship with the cast. And I was a bartender at this place, Schiller's Liquor Bar,

that was like kind of like a cool spot in Brooklyn. And so anytime the cast came to New York for like, you know, what's up front or stuff like that. I don't know. Anytime they were in New York, a crew would always come to the bar and hang out. No way. So wait. Hold on.

A second. Yeah. You actually, you were grubs in real life before you were grubs on One Tree Hill. I can't believe you guys don't know the story. This story is, yeah, this is the coolest thing of the whole thing. I mean, this is like the craziest bit of luck ever. So they would come to the, and it got to the point, though, like, the first time everybody, like, there was like maybe six or seven folks came inside of the bar.

And Schillers was like an intense environment to be in. Like, it was a wild place. It was very cool. It was loud. Everyone came and sat down. I threw menus in front of everyone, and everyone was like, I don't know. And I was super busy. And I was just like, you know what, guys, I know what you all want to drink.

I'm just going to make your drinks. Stop it right now. This is real? Swear to God. It's a completely true story. And we talk. Yeah, totally. And so I just made drinks for everyone because it was like a great.

bar. It was like, it was like a cocktail bar before cocktail bars like that really existed kind of in New York. So I made everyone just like really delicious fancy cocktails. And everyone was like, this is awesome. And like it was, I think to the point where like James, I like cracked open a beer and gave him like a, you know, it was everyone, I nailed it. It was awesome. So anyway, that became beyond the show, grubs, the bartender that could guess everyone's drinks. But yeah, so fast forward to, I made my first record, and nobody knew who we were. And it was clear we were never going to be successful. Wait, wait, wait. Why? Why was it clear you were never going to be successful? You can't just skip over that. It is nobody cared. Nobody cared about our music

whatsoever. It was wild. I mean, it's just, I feel like this is probably the experience that so many musicians have, too, because music is such a fickle thing. And I was the exact same guy that I am now is the exact same guy that played the music on the show and I would go to bars and I would play my music and everyone would just talk over it and nobody cared. I remember like before the first sink placement happened I was already in my 30s and I called my mom and I was like you know what like and my parents were musicians too and they were super proud of me that I was trying to be a musician in New York and I called my mom and I was like hey you know I just can't make this work and I don't I don't really want to do it anymore because I can't nobody cares and it's it's so hard to

care about something so much and I have nobody care. And then, so I told I was going to quit and get another job. I hadn't very out what the other job was going to be yet. And then the first sync happened, which was on season six. And it was, um, War Sweater was the song. And they played it like front to back. And the next day, that song was like number 13 on the iTunes charts at the time. And I called my mom and I was like, psych.

That's the power of this show for music. I mean, it would, it was wild. It made my career. Wow. Wow. Like you were ready to give up. You were done. Yeah, I was out.

I was done. And it's fine. I mean, at some point, I know we have to talk about some roads leading to nowhere. But the, whatever, we'll get there. Yeah, but yeah. So anyway, fast forward. That placement happens. That's awesome.

People start to know who my band is. The cast is coming to the bar to hang out. I'm guessing everybody's drinks. And then I finished my first record. I invite the boss. of the show to come out to New York. I play him the record. And he was like, I'm going to write you a role on the show.

He's like, because these songs are too good for people not to know them, which is like very flattering. And I did not believe it for a second. He was like, I'm going to write you a role. You're going to play yourself. Your character is going to be grubs. You're going to be a bartender that knows what everybody wants to drink. And then we're going to set you up as like this hero character.

And everyone's going to, we're going to make you really lovable. And then halfway through the season, we're going to reveal that you're a musician. And I was like, sure, buddy, sounds great. I'll, like, awesome. Oh, wait by the phone. Yeah, I'll be here waiting. And literally, a month later, I was, I, like, played some shows on tour. And I was on my way back from, like, the saddest, most empty show in the world.

And the back of this van. And my phone rang, and it was a show. And they were like, hey, were you doing this weekend? And I was like, I got to work. I got to, you know, I'm at the bar. And they were like, do you think you could cover it? And I was like, maybe. And they're like, yeah, we really want you to come down and tape your first episode.

And I was like, what? So then I went to the bar and told him that I had to start taking the show. Everyone was super excited. My manager at the bar, who is like kind of a jerk to be fair. Like I don't want to, I think it's really unfair to frame people that aren't here to protect themselves. But he was a tough manager, I guess, is a good way to say. Okay, okay. Had always wanted to be an actor.

And he got super nervous when I told him. And he was almost like, oh, like, that's so cool. Like, do you think they're, you know, I'd love to hear more about that or whatever. Is there a part for me? Exactly. And I was like, dude, I don't. Does this bar have a manager? Yeah.

We already do. They already do. Yeah. So anyway, fast forward. Then, like, we, I went down and started taping the show and I ended up quitting that job and becoming a professional musician for a long time. It's really awesome. So that's my origin story is wild. It's wild.

Like, I got struck by. lightning. That's crazy. You're Marilyn Monroe getting discovered at the soda shop. Like that's that story, Harrison Ford in the constructions shop at Warner Bros. Like that's amazing. But it's even cooler because I think the neatest part about your character I was seeing this the other day was this. I genuinely had a moment of going, what a really clever idea the writers came up with him. His thing is that he can guess people's drinks. So it's like you didn't just get discovered, they've kind of discovered the entire character in what you were doing. Yeah.

So, you know what I mean? That's crazy. This is so cool. Is it true? So I just heard this, too. Like, I was one of my friends, did you guys watch the show Girls? You remember girls? Only a few episodes.

I don't remember much of it. Okay. So Girls, the Lena Dunham show that was massive. Evidently, there was a character on that show that was a singer-songwriter in New York that got cast on One Tree Hill. and was on one tree hill playing himself. And one of my friends came to visit last week and told me about it and was like, I have never heard about that.

And I would have heard about that. And then my partner was like, that's a thing. Like, that's a thing. And not only that, it's cousin from the bear. The dude who plays cousin on the bear played me on girls. And I just found this out. Anyway, everyone at home, if you can get to the bottom of this, I'm obsessed.

We need to see this episode. I need this in my life. How do we find it? Yeah. He was like a long character. And the whole thing is that he was like on Montreal. So he was like cool musician guy. And I'm like, oh my God, that was me.

Like, that was me. Yeah, I was dramatized on a show. I dramatized myself. Yeah. But it's fun. To this day, anytime I'm at a party and someone asks anything about drinks, I'm like, I got you. And I was like, it's cool. I played a bartender on TV.

and I can take it from there. So it's pretty cool. That's wild, man. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing. doing for a ton of years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What did you think watching this episode? Did you have any big takeaways? Yeah, I mean, first off, like, I'm totally in your camp, Buckley. like I I really never watched the show like because I came from like this weird little group of Brooklyn hipsters that was like but I didn't even own a TV when the show came out you know what I mean like literally didn't own a TV and it just like I knew that Montreal was the thing but like I didn't know anything about it and and like literally to the point of when I went down there the first time we all went out for drinks and I knew James I I'd never met Stephen Colletti. And James was like, hey, we're going to meet you the place. Me and Stephen are coming down. And I was like, okay, cool.

Didn't know who Stephen was, but just pretended that I did because I was so scared of everything at the time. So I was like, of course, Stephen Colletty's going to be there having no idea. Met him, hung out with him all night long. And then halfway through the night, had a little aside with him. And I was like, so how do you know all these people? Like, what brings you to women? He was like, I'm actually like a pretty big character on the show. And I was like, cool.

That's always been my little secret with him that I, yeah. So I'm kind of a big deal. Yeah. And when the show aired, we would have like viewing parties in Brooklyn with a bunch of my like friends. And we would all just be drinking the whole time. And then anytime I was on TV, everyone would yell, he's on, he's on, he's on. And everyone would like come over and have a little moment. And then the scene would end and everyone would be like, yay.

And then we'd like go back to party mode. So I never really like took the shows in. And I had this. I thought I knew what this show was. And in watching this, what I've realized is that I had no. idea what this show was like I don't know if it's like a hindsight 2020 thing but I think like all the assumptions that I had about this show were wrong and I kind of want to go like engage with all the fans and be like I didn't really know what you guys were watching like that's wild

like that show and it's funny because I thought it was going to be like like when you like bust open like you know I think it's exactly like busting open a brittany spears record like you're like in your mind you're like this is kind of like a guilty pleasure and And then you open it and you're like, only shit, this is pretty good, actually. Like, this is actually like, and it's funny. Like, thinking about the show, it's like there's so, there are a lot of things that the show got wrong, right? But there's so many things they got right. Like, the way it was showcasing music was wild.

The way it was showcasing all these things was awesome. Like, and, you know, I see in this story, like, the, you know, there are so many times that they were trying to say positive things. Like, you know what I mean? All the medicine storyline, they're trying to say, like, hey, like, don't kill yourself. Like, that's stupid. You know what I mean? It's a bad idea to go kill yourself. You know, like, and the way that they were like, we're dramatizing this, but we're also trying to undramatize it at the same time.

I saw the effort. They were trying to do the right thing in that instance. Yeah, there were a lot of times they really tried to deal with real issues. And it wasn't always right. You know, sometimes I think they used a lot of things that were real issues just as a dramatic device instead of actually dealing with them properly. but there were a lot of times too, and they really made an effort and put time and care into the characters and those storylines. And I think this was a good episode for you to have watched in that case, knowing that

you haven't really seen it much before, spent time with it, because it moved pretty fast and it felt like all the characters were really moving forward. There was a lot happening. and every scene felt like a coda. The whole movie, I mean, the whole show felt like the end of an episode. Yeah. Yeah, I felt myself going, this had to have been our midseason finale, right? It was.

It was. It was. My feeling, like this episode tried to do the most, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. You know, rather than, like, let's hit a couple singles, a couple doubles, a couple triples, maybe a home run or two, it was every single at bat were swinging for the fences. And I think it succeeded in a couple of them And it really swung and missed on a few as well

Yeah, yeah It did feel like it was like my takeaway from this My grand takeaway is like this episode was everybody's hero shot Like everybody had their hero moment in this episode Where it was like oh my God Like even like the first shot of you by the pool Buckley It's just like this it's just it feels like the end of a Tom Cruise movie You know what I mean?

like the sun's setting in the background, you're like perfectly tan and you're sitting there and you just like take your phone and flip it into the pool. You're like, I have nothing for outside conversation. I'm fine alone. Like it was just this hero shot of you. And that continued throughout the show. Everyone had their little like hero moment, you know. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I liked the opening too. And I liked seeing, let me, let's talk about Clay. Like, I really enjoyed watching Clay get to this point where he's happy. I mean, you've been so tortured since we met you. Yes.

This was really cool. Yeah, I had fun with the Clay and Quinn stuff. I enjoyed all of that. Because last episode it was odd because she was just making so much effort that wasn't being reciprocated by Clay. And I found myself going, okay, but this doesn't feel balanced. But I liked it because they kind of got on the same page on this one. One of the things I did remember was the dance tryout, which listen.

All of the gold star. for Shantel because there is no there is no vanity and comedy and she did not hold back at one ounce she went full on and it works it's hilarious and iconic because she committed like that yes but i just I respect the hell out of the choice to like I'm going to make myself look as silly as possible yes that was also it's great were you guys there when they've oh of course you were there Buckley I don't like I was not. So I went to set that day for numerous reasons, which we'll get into. But I'm pretty sure I rode with Chantel to set.

Like for some reason, I was in their van or something. And I remember her being just terrified of having to like put on that outfit and go out there and do that stuff. Like this show really has a way of taking women and making them put on outfits they don't, they're not comfortable. like forcing that i remember it happened to india in the craziest way oh yeah um and so she i remember her feeling very stressed about that but then the way that she did the dance and everything because it wasn't just like a closed set there was a whole crowd of cheerleaders standing there watching the bleachers were full like i remember there being a ton of people there and um and just her being so stressed and she was i mean she pulled it off that she was so funny and uh and great

I think we had extra drinks that night after we breathed. No, she did. She committed wholeheartedly, and that's why it worked. And the buildup to that of her, when you're parked with the car on the phone call, and she's trying to feed the cow behind you. So good. Incredible. Incredible.

I did have a moment. Again, there was some real head scratchers in this one for me. And one of them came pretty early on when, I don't know if it's early on, But Clay, whose house is literally on the beach, gets fully dressed for a day of work. I'm talking dress shoes, sport coat, slacks, and walk straight from his house where he has swimming trunks and other outfit choices. And he walks straight into the ocean, leaving his coat on the beach. I'm just thinking, why put those clothes on, bud? Your house is right.

You didn't have to commute here from the office. It was a spontaneous thought. That's it. He wasn't planning on it. Yeah, it's his own rules. But there's stuff, the Clay Quinn stuff I thought was nice. I like the way it ended, you know, that was very sweet. I was actually confused about that.

And maybe I missed something. But when she says no and then has this big kind of dramatic pause and then says, I'll come out to you. You know, you're like, I'll come in. And she says, no, I'll come out. As though she's been holding back and now she's somehow coming towards you. I didn't understand. Yeah, because in a previous episode, we talked about what we were afraid of, and she said it's the ocean. And Clay goes why, and she says, because of the immensity.

That's why earlier in the car, I make a comment about, I was thinking about the ocean and the immensity and all that, you know. I missed it. Thank you. The part that confused me about that was, I don't think Clay knew she was coming. So it's like, again, bro, why are you fully dressed in the ocean again? What is happening? Your house is literally right there. and you are shoes, socks, the whole nine.

Don't think too hard about it, Rob. You know what I mean? It's, yeah, you guys looked great. I remember also, wasn't it like freezing cold that day? Yes. I remember that being a discussion that was like when you guys were going into the water to tape, you were like, it's like the water is like 30 degrees or something insane. That was like Arctic.

It was chilly. The day Paul drowned me as well. It was cold there a lot. But speaking of having to sort of not. like do any investigating or look too closely at it um i have issues with uh okay so alex obviously tries to um unalive herself in the bathtub she goes to the hospital when apparently milly finds out i'm assuming she got a call somehow i was very curious as to why rather than go to the hospital she chooses to go to the

hotel room, which apparently the door is still wide open, and sit in the blood and cry. And then as I'm sitting there going, what the hell? Mouth walks in, who is very rational at this point, unlike Millie. And I'm thinking, good, picked your girl up, get her out of the blood, and, you know, go have a talk. No, no, he sits down in the bigger puddle of blood next to her. In what world would you not be either going to check on your friend, cleaning up? the blood, but instead you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take these denim pants and pop them down in that blood. What? Yeah, I feel like you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, go out of the blood.

Millie, Millie, come on. Instead, you're like, yeah, we're doing this. This is the wrong place to be sitting. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I thought it was really strange as well. Did she get a phone call? I missed the phone call if she got one. The reason why, here's the only way that makes sense to me. It's because if she didn't get a phone call, that means she showed up to Alex's room, the door was open, no one was in there, there was blood everywhere, and she decided to cry and sit in the active crime scene. Yeah, which is worse. Which is worse. So I just told myself, okay, she had to get a phone call. The other confusing thing is, so Julian's in the hospital with her. And I think, obviously, and he saves her life, whatever. I'm thinking, okay, he checked

his phone and got her voicemail at the end of last episode. Okay, I guess that makes sense. He kicked down her door. He asked the hotel for a room, a room key, whatever. No. They make a point of saying, I was coming by, he says, I was coming by your apartment to tell you

we got financing. And then so I'm thinking to myself, dude, if you just casually popped by her hotel room and knocked and no one answered, in what world you went in? Would you, A, do you have a room key?

If so, bro, your boundaries are horrible. And if you don't, why would you think, like, I should probably get the hotel to let me in? You know what I mean? No, it's full of holes. There's so many problems. This was one of my biggest issues working on the show that I felt like I was constantly trying to help solve these problems.

I thought I was helping, and I was really just exhausting everyone because nobody wanted to think about it that hard. But it is, it drives me crazy because when you watch, it, you're like, this doesn't make sense, and it could. Like, it's not that hard to make a few adjustments to make something make sense. And then you're not asking the audience to suspend reality further than they've already decided to by sitting down and turning on a television. Do you know what I mean?

Yes. I also felt like on the heels of last week's episode when we were talking about directing and you asked me if I ever wanted direct and I said, yeah, but it's intimidating. Not going to lie, halfway through this episode, I found myself going, I think I could could do this. If this is it, I can do it. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Another questionable choice in this episode, you, I mean, Michael, you sit down, Michael. What do you prefer people to call you grubs or Mike? What do you go by? I go with all of it. I like, I do Mike or I do Michael.

And honestly, either way, I'm going to judge you. If you call me Mike, I'll be like, okay. If you call me Michael, I'll be like, all right. That's a little, you know what I mean? There's no right choice. No, but you sit down at the piano. You sit down at the piano and I'm like, oh, God, this is great. They're going to do the big reveal.

And all of a sudden, this great shot that's set up for you to surprise us goes into an overhead crane shot. And there's like six different setups of you playing the piano that is so distracting. It looks like it's not actually you playing because they keep cutting away from your face and your hands. I was frustrated watching that. And it really was like, as an audience member, it was one of those moments I thought, you can trust me. I'm here with the story.

Like you really don't have to do all this stuff. Just leave the camera there and I would like to enjoy this moment. Please stop doing things. It felt like it was like almost like for the time. So two things. One, in their defense, the opening to that song is not to a click. So it is not actually, it's like, you know, typically, I guess for people at home that aren't familiar,

typically when you record music there's a click track on so you can recreate the performance over and over so that was just a live single take of me doing that so it's really hard to match that so maybe they were trying to match it with my fingers and i was doing a poor job in their defense one two i think they go into this this is what a show does when music is played mindset where it's like we're bouncing around we've got moving things we got whatever he's got a shake he's i remember like playing it and being like can you move more and i was like not and play the piano successfully And it's like the cuts of it. It's just like, I'm shaking my head when I'm like not doing anything. And I'm like doing it. And I remember like when I hit the first note, they were like, make it dramatic. You know what I mean? And I'm like, okay. But like when you actually play a piano, you don't just like smack it.

You know what I mean? But I like did the first like thing. I hit it. And I felt like I like, I was like, did I just break my finger? My finger. And I was like, up, just keep going power through. I was fine. But I hit it so hard.

I almost hurt myself. Yeah, but I mean, that's the way it goes. If you could just, if you could just like kiss your hand before you slap the key and blow on it like it's on fire. Yeah, exactly. Perfect. But Joy, you're right. There were, again, so there were some shots where I felt the same way or it was like, oh my gosh, just trust the audience. There's a moment in Clay's Kitchen where she go, where Quinn says, hey, I talk to your old assistant.

I don't even know why. But then she goes, you know, I, the piece of news I got was. so-and-so's mom is sick and it pans to like a a cowboy shot meaning like down to like a little like between my knees and my waist of clay and it zooms into my face for an aha moment oh god and i couldn't i couldn't it's like commercial directing tied yeah like oh clay just had a thought it was like did you did you need to what it just it took me out of the moment like what are we what are we doing It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I really, really loved the stuff with Dan. Oh my gosh. That was such a winning storyline for me in this episode. He's a master of stillness. I have that too

Paul is Where is it I did Paul is so good at stillness I wrote it down He is he was just so dropped in And centered And didn't have to do anything Did everything with his eyes

So underrated I love him He always scared me so much In real life or on the show In real life In real life I would scare me so much There were certain actors on the show

I was scared of I think it was just because they were so good Like you know what I mean They were so like I feel like yeah he was definitely one of those Antoine also skills like I felt

I was like he's so he just lives his character so much I remember having a scene with him and being terrified to do it because have you ever done any acting before I mean so I got a degree in musical theater in college yeah and I was

on like the Broadway route for a long time I actually like did touring musical theater for a minute yeah I was like on that was my thing so I was going to be the singing actor and I hated it though I was very it just was doing the same thing every single night

but you guys know acting on a stage and acting on a set are such completely different skill sets and I yeah I didn't know I didn't know what a mark was

like the first time like the mark is a little X where you have to stand on and they were like you should stand on that and I was like I'll work on it and they were like no you really should you should stand right on that I was like, oh, okay, cool.

And yeah, I mean, there's a, there's a real technicality to screen acting that I think I'd never, ever gotten. Luckily, you guys were such saints with me about explaining what everything was and you were all so patient with me and wonderful me. I remember, it's so India, my, you know, who played Miranda on the show, my love interest. Like, we, her, her now husband would actually, like, fly in it. They would give me, like, acting lessons, and we would do, like, scene work and stuff. They did? Yeah, we tried so hard to make me not a bad actor for this show. You were great.

That's what was so fascinating. I mean, now knowing that you had musical theater training, that is informative. But you were so natural. You were so comfortable. It seemed like you were completely unaware of the camera, unaware of yourself, and you were just there in the moment with the other people in the scene. That's actually seems to be very hard to do for a lot of people. You were great. I wish I'd known.

They literally wrote you into the show. I think trying to act would have really been a mistake. The best thing you could do is to not act and just be like, what would I do in this situation? You know what I mean? Because they just took you and put you on the show. They didn't even take the time to change your name. Like, this is Gavin. It was like, no, he's grubs.

He picks strings. We know him in real life. That's him. When I got to set the first time, I remember I went into the hair and makeup trailer, and they were like, you're not allowed to, they were like, we've been told we're not allowed to touch you. When I first walked in, like, we're not allowed to cut your hair.

We're not allowed to do anything. We have to wait or whatever. So like the boss came and like signed off on everything. And like, it was funny because the reason I had long hair on the show is because I was so poor that I hadn't, I just was like haircuts. I can't really afford. haircuts at this point in life.

So I had not gotten my haircut in like eight months or something. So my hair had just grown out and I had like long hair on the show. And then I got there and they were like, we love what you've done with your hair. And I was like actually like the cruel, the cruel, you know, society and world. This is a poverty chic guy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's so wild.

Like, I mean, talk about like feeling like I was like, I remember like my power got cut off at my apartment at one point before I, like, went to shoot because I was just so poor. And like, and, you know, it's just, that's, but, you know, then I got that, uh, that, uh, one tree hill. Did you think you were going to stay longer than an episode? Like, once it, once the episode was over, were you like, wow, that was cool, but there's no way I'm going to keep doing this. Like, yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I never knew exactly what was going on. And I was always so terrified of everything and everyone to ask. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I remember, I remember one time I bethne you'll you'll love like I remember seeing that you got a um a cucumber sandwich one time from crafty and I was like yeah that looks dope that sandwich looks awesome like it was like it was like cucumber is a little like something I don't know what it was but I was like and I went over to crafting and it's like hey can I'm one of those and they're like we we really only do that for her and I was like okay no worries things and I like they were like they were like

a few things that happened like that that just kind of like smacked me into place. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm definitely like basically a glorified extra on this show. That makes me so mad. I wish you had just been like, they won't make me your sandwich. Can I have one?

I've been like, yeah, here, eat this. I'll go get a different one. I know that you would too. In the audacity that it's not like a foie gras sandwich. Like, it's not like, you know, Kobe beef sliders. Yeah. It's cucumbers. It's not hidden in the back of the fridge for me.

No, that's unbelievable. Yeah, it's wild. But, yeah, I don't know. There were so many wild things like that. But just, yeah, I don't know. I can't remember what your initial question was, but the answer is yes. Well, we were talking about how Paul scared you, but then. Oh, yeah.

Oh, he scared me. Yeah. But let's talk about Dan and Rachel because I think that I feel like it's finally happened. I hope I don't eat my words. but I think Dan actually might really be turning a corner this time. I agree. Again, I don't know anything. I genuinely don't remember.

I remember two things that happened in the rest of the series with him, and neither of them. One of them is admirable and the other one I don't remember why it happens. But I'm with you. So I don't know either. But to give away all of his money and just walk away from his show, that's walk in the walk that's not just talking i mean look it to play devil's advocate it is the only way that he could win with rachel win over rachel so i you know if you want to look at it that way where he's kind of like i'll always make more money i've got my mind i can think of new ways to make money and

new schemes i'm not going to let her win i'm going to give everything away he could be doing that i mean he also goes over to jackson though at the end and it's like i've done done bad things, like saying to your little child, you know what I mean, like your little grandchild being like, I'm a bad dude, you know, like that's, that's pretty committed. His quest for forgiveness is like the through line for him, though, so far. And it seems like it's sincere. I think the biggest show of the sincerity is the fact, and of the guilt, is the fact that he chose to take a commuter bus rather than buy a plane ticket. Because that is going to be a long drive as opposed to a short flight.

Do we even know where he's going? No. I don't know why. I kept feeling like he was going to go like Guatemala. That's what I thought too. What? I thought he was going to South America. Interesting.

Why did I think that? I don't know. That's so strange. I hope we get more of Rachel because the one thing I loved that story in this episode, but the one thing I wanted more of was her to have some recourse or some I just want to see more of her. She was so dynamic this season. I wonder if she sticks around.

Like now she's stuck in Tree Hill. She doesn't have anything. She's going to have to figure something else out now. So maybe they kept her around. I don't remember. Oh, so many things I don't remember. I thought all of the stuff with Haley and Nathan and Jamie was lovely. The tomato fight was so much fun.

So fun. Him doing the Matador stuff. the caca del Toro. Wait, I have a story. I have a story about this. So Jackson's mom was always on set with him. And the shot with him with a bar of soap in his mouth, they had crafted this glycerin flavored, you know,

it was a bar of soap that you actually could put in your mouth. It probably tasted like strawberry or something. It was totally edible. And they showed it to him any. and they're like, this is the bar of soap, it's edible, don't worry about it. There's no soap in here, no nothing. And our boss asked Jackson's mom if it was okay, if we switched it out for a real bar of soap to get a real reaction out of him.

Sure. And she thought, she was like, oh, sure, that'll be funny. And poor Jackson is, I don't know how old he was at the time. I think it was eight or nine, but that age is kind of fragile with, like, it could go either way. You don't know if they're just going to, like, be like, oh, if somebody played a joke on me or if they take it personally. Like, my daughter at that age was still having a, like, figuring out humor. And so it would take things personally that weren't meant to be personal because you're just, your brain is starting to compute the world and how people joke. Anyway, sorry, long story boring.

I get this bar of soap, and it's my responsibility to shove it into the kid's mouth. And I'm like, here, eat this. And we shove it in his mouth. And he does, you know, he has to sit there for a moment with it in his mouth. And they're getting the straight shot of him holding it. And then he takes it out. And it ended up in the show where he goes, what do you say? It's nasty.

It's yucky. And he's like, eh, eh. That reaction was the real bar of soap. And we all start laughing, and he's like, what, what? We're like, we switched it out. It's a real bar of soap, you know, and it was supposed to be really fun. And he just did not compute the idea of a practical joke and just burst into tears, ran off the set, you know, went into his mom's arms and she felt horrible because, you know, she took the gamble. She was like, oh, let's see.

I felt, I felt so bad. I could not believe I made that kid cry. How does it feel, Joy, knowing that sometime in the future, that sweet boy is going to be a man in therapy talking about this very experience of you deceiving him? It does not feel good, Robert. It doesn't feel good. I remember during the tomato fight, I remember that was like really stressful for me because I'm not an athlete, I think is the word that they say, athletic person. And they would be like, hey, we need you to throw this and hit Jamie like right in the head with this tomato. and I would and I would throw the tomato and it would hit like two feet to the right and I would be like you guys should really get someone that's like an athlete to do this because I'm not this isn't I remember when I played the piano and I was like wow how do you do that that's how I feel when people throw things

and like there was like there was like one particularly humiliating moment where it was like the and it's like the last shot we're getting I don't know if you remember this we're all standing there and he has this you know he's got his gear on he's there it's like his hero shot where he's going to take it right in the chest and then die. And they're like, you just need to throw this right in that little kid's chest. And I'm like, maybe four feet away. Like I'm like as close as I can get with being out of shot. And I'm like, yeah, I got this. And they're like, action. And I throw it and hit him in the kneecap. And they're like, nope. And they reset, reset. Like action. And I throw it and I hit him in like the shoulder or something. And they're like, nope, we got to redo it. And you're off camera at this point. I'm off camera.

Why didn't they just have James do it? Exactly. And we did it so many times. And I'm having a mental breakdown. I feel like Jackson with the bar of soap in my mouth. And I'm like, I'm not an athlete. And then finally, our boss was like, I'll actually, I'll just throw it. It's fine.

And I was like, okay, we could have done this from shot one. There's no reason for me to be here. Then he hit him in like the first time. But yeah, there was always moments like that. There's a great line in that scene. When you walk in joy, you say to Grubbs and James, you are you know it's like you have to grubs in nathan you say uh what kind of grown men stand around throwing tomatoes at a seven year old and there's a beat he goes you want to throw one

don't you and you say yes i do yeah that was fun that was really fun after the after the scene everyone's sitting there covered in tomatoes as well and there's i don't know if you notice i'm behind it's actually the second time they do a behind shot gag like there's the one where Buckley you're talking on your phone and then behind you Chantelle's feeding the cow like that was one this was the second one like that where

you guys are all sitting there covered in tomatoes kind of like living in the joy of that fight and I walk behind you guys and I'm drinking a Bloody Mary and I pick a piece of tomato off of my shirt put it in the Bloody Mary and then continue to drink it and walk out. I did not

notice that. I didn't either. A little Easter egg for you guys. Was that your idea? Was that, were you directed to do that? Or was it like, let's just, let me, let me, I got an idea. Let me jump in. I'm pretty sure I was directed to do that. Yeah.

I can't imagine that I, I can't imagine I would be so bold as to say, I got a funny joke. It would be like, cool. The other outstanding, I should tell you guys, the other outstanding moment of athleticism that happened on this show. So for me, was at the scene where Chancel does the dance in the gymnasium. I don't know if you remember this, Buckley. This was a scarring moment for me. in life in general. So I went to set that day because my friends, the Frazier's, were there and my manager,

and they basically worked them all into the shot. So if you see right when Chantel is getting ready to go to the dance, this woman's name beside her young girl turns and she's like, you're up or whatever. That is friend of, a friend of the show, Shelby Frazier, who would come hang out and her mom, Debbie Frazier is one of the judges. and the other judge is my old manager, West Verhova. So when they showed the managers there.

So I went to hang out with them on set. There's a time where there's a break. Mind you, Bleacher is full of people, all these people. Me on the show, full of athletes. I'm basically like a lifelong music nerd, never able to do any kind of sports stuff. Terrified on the show because all of the actors on the show are basically like the alpha versions of the guys that used to pick on me. You know what I mean? Like the guys that would shove me into a locker?

The actors on this show are the guys that would shove them into a locker. You know what I mean? These are like the biggest best dudes. You know what I mean? And they're all being nice to me and I don't know why. And so we are all at set and we're all hanging out. And everyone's like, start shooting basketballs. And it's like, it's a basketball show.

You know what I mean? So everyone's shooting basketballs. Some, a basketball bounces to me. I'm wearing a very tight. No, God, no. But I'm like, I can do this. I'm wearing this very hipster coat. that's like very tight fitting and I go to shoot the basketball and my coat won't allow my arms

to finish the motion and so I go to shoot the ball my arms freeze like halfway through the ball flies like two feet into the air and then falls down and everybody stopped what they were doing the entire like it was like they were like quiet on set quiet on set Michael did something stupid quiet on set and everyone and I was like it's my coat it's my coat's too tight I can't shoot because of my coat. It was pretty awesome. So anyway, that's my athleticism story from the show. Thank you for indulging.

Dang, I wish I'd been there that day in the gym. That would have been a, it looked like I'm a fun day. It was a fun day, you know, watching Chantel be silly. The line I have, the line out on that scene sucks to be next. Was just an ad lib. Yes. Fantastic. I was wondering, actually, because that just seems like you.

Yeah, because I remember just watching her thinking, like, dude, I, I, this, I, I, I and Clay need to cheer her on so hard. And so I was just going for it. I think on the last take yet, that's when I screamed sucks to be next or whatever. Yeah. And then it made it in. Yeah. Awesome. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burnbridge. we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And then Clay saves the day, like comes in, again, they're having this super formal signing in the living room at Haley getting stressed up for, I guess, you know, and here comes Clay and Quinn, but I have to tell you, I got emotional. I really, it was, it was beautifully done. The revelation of all the things that he had done. done in the way that he had put all the pieces together and saved the day and kept them. And then they're going to stay in Charlotte. Oh, my gosh. It was so exciting.

I loved that he pieced the puzzle together. This was another one of those moments where I found myself going, we're doing, we're doing too much, guys. Like, first of all, it's a, why would the agents be in your home at nighttime to sign a deal? Again, do these guys work around the corner? Why are they always in your house? At least they weren't standing this time. Right. But what killed me was, it's like, again, formal meeting in your house for some reason that even your child is in attendance for.

Yeah. And then as you're like, it's a good deal, Nathan, you hear the slow clap from off camera and Clay walks in. And I just found myself going, this is already such a great moment. You don't need to build in a cheesy device like this. like it just felt so staged to me like first of all the front door's in the shot so the only thing that makes sense to me is maybe we pulled up and i said that's the agent's car and quinn said let's go in the side door don't know why but otherwise you would have seen us walk but also if you knew he was there to sign it you would have tried to get there and like stop it like get in there and not let him sign so the fact that you're slowly sauntering in yes that's so dumb they made you do that also like you're fairly estranged at this point right you just walk into his house unannounced like that's another boundary issue that we have from the show like just walking so many so many boundary issues oh buddy this is i was saying last week if if there had been a therapist character on the show it would

have been such a lorraine broco it would have been incredible but it would have been so much more effective if like y'all were just sitting around having dinner and just clay and clay walked in you know absolutely and so there wasn't any performative aspect to it why did the agents have to be there for that scene because what he he's getting one over on the agents like ha ha who cares about them we don't even know them we don't follow their storyline like who gives a shit the only people I care about in this scene are you and Quinn and Nathan and Haley like that's what's going on and the to me this was another choice where I went like what are you doing when they actually have a moment whereas I'm like I have the great

deal i saved the day and the agents other agents obviously realize we've lost this one as they're walking out they do a special shot of the agent over my shoulder and i turn around and he turns around back to me and nods at me like good one kid it's like i just professed my love to this character i just saved my friend's career and this is the moment we want to we want to we're spending time here yeah i think our boss just really had a pensions for revenge. Like, he really enjoyed it in all different forms. And so I think that was it.

It just seeped in in random places like that. He wrote and directed this episode. And this episode, it was funny. There's a quote in it that I had to stop the show and just say to Jenny out loud. I was like, you're not going to believe this line was just said, no. This was Julian when he says, I'm mad at you. You know what happens when you die, Alex? you're dead that's what happens i said that i go jenny this was this was an unironic line in the show

and she says it sounds like it was written by someone who was really feeling themselves and i went that's wildly appropriate actually honey i mean nothing as far as like strong lines go nothing beats the milly ever whenever i see that mirror all i want to do is cut up a line of coke on it that no no no no she said what i want to do i just want to cut a line and snort it. Oh, she had to say those words out loud. And mind you, Grubbs, because just a little backstory, she's been a model for two weeks.

This is the most expedited tale of drug addiction that you've ever seen. And so this has been, ever since it started, this has been the thing I have just railed on every single episode of this podcast because I just can't, Lisa is so good. And this story is so garbage the way it's done. And this episode, when she says this presumably 30-year-old person

who's been doing Coke for two weeks, can't look at a mirror without wanting to snort a line off it. And then she sneaks out of rehab. Like she can't hack it. It was just. She's so good. And I just watch it going, oh, you deserve so much better, Lisa Goldstein.

I think honestly, that's probably why. nobody fought back the scene where they walk that you were talking about where they walk in and they're sitting in the blood i think lisa and lee were both exhausted from the absurdity of this storyline and having to just deal with it on a regular basis that that just seemed to me like two actors that walked in the room and the director told them what to do and they were like really can't we you know what never mind just just tell us where to be we'll just do it and let let's get it over with i have a quick side step and then i have a quick side step and then i have a question really quickly the side step is one to go back to the house for one

seconds i don't want to leave without saying this i was just so happy that you got there alive luckily because i was sure when if french cinema has taught me anything when a young couple that is falling in love drives around in a car like that so many scenes in the car that car is going off the road there's no way we're making it that house in one piece and when you made it there i was like that is brave to go against cinematic trope at that level that And the other thing, when you're at the house, when she, I love the moment when he says, this is a good deal. It's going to be $7 million. I see, Joy, you go, all right, like that.

Then you come in here, like, how about $15 million? And Joy's like, all right. Like, you make this old face like, okay, we'll take the 15. Like, it was just like, it was such the little look on your face like, oh, I'm rich. Like, it was, it was awesome. I loved your, I loved your acting in that moment. Gosh, to be talking about it in front of the kid, too. Like, oh, but so this, so this takes me like, now I'll return to our previous discussion.

I'm sorry, I had to take us away for it, but that I had to do, I had to say those things. When did you got, what was your biggest moment where you got a script and there was a line in it? And you were like, no way. Like, did you get, like, was there a moment where you had like a line that you were like, I don't know how I pulled this? I just always changed them. Yeah. I was scared to do that. Yeah.

I mean, it pissed people off for sure, but I was like, this is stupid. I'm not going to say it. I probably skipped over some lines that maybe could have worked well because I was a little cocky about it. But, yeah, a lot of times I just was like, yeah, no. I don't remember any specific lines, but I had some story stuff where I just kind of went, what? Yeah. What are we doing? Really?

I just remember, like, getting the scripts and just thinking, like, they're just telling me what I'm going to do like that's a there's a wild level of trust with like you and your in the character and they and luckily i feel like i was this has been kind of like discussed around with me and some of the folks like i feel like when i was cast on the show i was the character version of the boss like he he basically wrote me to he was writing himself into the show in his mind he made me this like lovable guy that everyone comes to for advice or whatever and it set me up and they were always really nice for me, but I can't tell you how many times I've thought, like, they could easily have made me someone who, like, can't even go to the store to get groceries without someone

being like, you're bad, you know, like if I think about like, like Jeffrey from, or Joffrey from like Game of Thrones. And it's like, man, that's got to be tough walking around that all the time. Anyway, sorry, a bit of a bit of a side step. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's so many different ways that things could go, which is why when storylines like this Millie and Alex thing kind of gets through and slips through the cracks, you're just like, how, or Robert, what you're talking about, where you're reading storylines going, why are we,

you know, the one that's coming up with the lookalike and all that, that's one of those ones, you're just like, what are we doing? Why are we running out of ideas? There's so many of them. The fact that we actually did the soap opera thing

of hiring back the same actress Amanda Schull to play a different random girl who just looks like my wife and becomes fatally obsessed with me, the fact that that, That isn't the craziest storyline that Clay has tells you something. It sure does. It sure does.

We were like the classier or more boogey version of. Do you remember that show Passions? Of course I remember passions. With like witches and like it was. Yes. So bizarre. They did. I thought that Jana and Austin did well.

did very well they did as well as you could have with that material but i just thought and there was a couple like when dan's giving a great speech the fact they added in the gunshot sound when he's talking about keith dying paul committed to that so hard because he was like i want you to kneel down and like say goodbye to your brother down in the ground it's like fuck me man all right okay i'll make it work i mean and they made such a meal of it and then when um uh uh Yeah, when Julian holds Alex's hand, the fact that at that very moment, Brooke walks up and that's what she sees, and it was just... Yeah, it's heavy-handed. It's very, it's too much. I really, this, the sort of pat answer of Julian, of Brooke helping Julian realize that he's trying to save his mom by saving all these girls. I think it's a very real issue that people struggle with. I think it's actually one of the most common things in relationships that we, are constantly trying to work out childhood things on the people that we're with.

So we're trying to save our mom or make a have a good relationship with our dad or whatever. And then we pick people that are going to make that difficult so that we can resolve the issue. And then, you know, Freud tells us, hey, now you fixed it. I mean, it's pretty textbook. However, the answer that he gives her, I can't remember the very last quote that he says there, but her not having a response. It was something about like, if I can, oh, he says something. about if I can help her, maybe I can help her before her light goes out, before it's too late

or something. Before her fire goes out, and even if it doesn't, at least I try it. Thank you. And Brooke doesn't respond. And I keep thinking, why are you not saying, I'm the one you're dating. Worry about my fire. Put my fire out. I mean, help me keep my fire going or whatever. Like, this is not healthy. So the fact that she recognized it but then wasn't willing to call him on it, I thought was really strange. But maybe that's coming up. Maybe they're just setting it up for the next episode. Also, for an episode where every scene was trying to just do the most, it was odd that the last scene, this random dude walks into close over bros.

And my first thought was- Boring entrance. I thought, holy shit, does she get assaulted? it again? Yeah. And then, okay, because his vibe is weird. Yeah. And then it's not.

And he's just like, I'm the new designer that Victoria hired. And she's like, oh. And it cuts to black. So I'm thinking, there wasn't even a vibe. Are we trying to introduce a new potential suitor? Because if so, that was the, that was the worst first encounter. Like for an episode where every single scene was a 10, they randomly chose a 30 second scene that was a four.

It's just so dumb. It was so dumb. Why would they not get into a fender bender when he's pulling up outside and start screaming at each other? And then she's like, who the hell are you anyway? Well, I'm your new designer. Okay, interesting. I don't know. She's closing up the store and he's stumbling in.

And I mean, it's in the dark. And he's like, I'm trying to find the light. Victoria told me to come in. Who the hell are you? I'm your new design. Like something. He just walks in the door. Anything.

Have him be charming. Have him maybe, I think, Brooke is Victor, anything. Like, like, it's night at time, but he. brought coffee. Like walk in eating a bowl of spaghetti and I would be interested. Anything. Anything would have been good. He just looks at the camera and he's like, I'm handsome. That was it. That was the end. Seriously, my note is just jawline and an accent. Yeah. No disrespect to this actor. He's handsome. But I just thought it was sort of like they thought he was just so good looking that they were like,

we don't need to put anything on this handsome hot dog. It's perfect plain. I was like, no, give him some dialogue. It's something. Mitch is his name. It's super sweet guy. Super sweet actor. Mitch. Yeah.

Ossie Stud. This show really has done, at least since I've started watching, has done a really good job of sticking the landing with introing new characters. Except so far on this one, it felt like an actual afterthought. It felt like this should be the first scene of the next episode, but they were like 40 seconds short. And they took like the 40 seconds of the top of that scene. just put it to the end of this episode.

That's funny. It was so odd. I wonder if they did. Wait, Mike, are you still in touch with him, with Mitch? Are you guys still friends? No, I think we became Facebook friends on that time. And then his name comes up because we're Facebook friends. We haven't really had interaction or whatever.

But you've stayed in touch with a lot of people on the show. I mean, you and Kay Vogel are in a band now, your future ghost, which I want to hear all about. Can you tell us about that? And also I want to hear about everyone's doing great, your show that you're scoring with James Lafferty or James's show. Thank you for asking about these things. They are so important to me. That's all the time we have folks.

Thanks for joining us. I'm just kidding. Yes. So Kate and I started writing together during the pandemic. And we were writing over Zoom a lot. And suddenly it was like, hey, this is really cool. And Kate and I were always buds, but we never had like deep, deep budded down. Like, you know, like band style.

And suddenly we found we're riding together and we're like, this is. really good stuff and it suddenly was like hey let's release the song together and then it became like hey why don't we do a couple of songs then we're like this doesn't really feel like my music doesn't feel like your music this feels like our music and then it grew and grew and now we are a band called your future ghost and um it's the coolest music that anyone has ever made in the world and yeah we actually just had a crazy we filmed a music video uh in the desert uh and i mean hindsight kind of scary at the time what like kate literally really ended up in the emergency room she got um she got uh what's it called water intoxication she

drank too much water right she drank too much water and ended up in the hospital with an iv and i couldn't talk it was wild she's fine now and we just found the rest of it this right yeah there it's true typically only happens in people doing like ultra marathons and marathons they overhydrate and that's kate she's she rocks so hard she rocks so hard that's how hard she rocks she uh yeah but she's good and we just finished filming that and so we have another uh we have another single coming out soon so if fans at home you can go to our instagram your future ghosts and you can find out more about that um there's going to be a link there to get news about our upcoming single like a pre-save please do it so james and stephen uh james lafrey and steveny made this wonderful show

quite everyone's doing great i did the score for the first season and then came one for the second season to do the score again um and it just keeps getting better and better so so much fun. It's the best thing in the world. It's such a good score, by the way, Mike. I mean, it really gives the show so much character. I feel like in the same way that the town was the character in One Tree Hill. It was its own character. Your music has created that environment for everyone's doing great. It's just grounding, sophisticated, interesting, complex, but it makes the goofy comedy really work and the sarcasm. It's great. It's great. Thank you so much. I mean, it's my dream to, like my, if I got to pick a career,

I would score film and TV and movies and stuff. It's my favorite thing I do. And yeah, and these guys have been awesome. I also want to say before we hop off the episode that Miss Lauren and skills were so sweet. And I wish we had a lot more of them. Yeah. Yeah. That whole thing where she says, you didn't even ask me.

And he's like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry, would you have come? And she says, no. but it's nice to be asked. I thought, oh, yeah. It is. It's so sweet. They were great. I love her. I miss her.

Yeah, she's so good. She's so good. And the two of them together are great. Always want more of them. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges,

we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ashley wants to know. The question is for whenever you get grubs on the podcast. Hey, Ashley, it's your lucky day. Hey, hey. Okay. Me, Sof, and Rob are sitting down at your bar. What is our drink of choice? Oh, man.

First off, I'm going to have to double the security at the bar because I got three super big sitting down at my bar. Whoa. Crowd control. Crowd control is going to be of essence. Charming. For you three guys. I feel like for so for so I'm thinking something like I I feel like she's always very on trend

and very aware of like what's going on. She's very like like amazing. She's always just like the coolest. And I feel like right now I see a lot of espresso martinis. Yeah, she's with the times. I see a lot of espresso martinis around. I think I'd make her something espresso base that would be like an up cocktail. It would be sophisticated.

It would have style. Yeah, a little vodka. a little bit like and um but a chilled up drink that she could have um that would then i think joy i think for you we're looking at i and i don't know because i i've seen you backstage have different drinks so this is this is just a single drink moment i don't know if this is like your forever cocktail but i i would love to make you something very sophisticated with gin and a coup that would be like almost gone in like four sips kind of thing maybe top it with a little shampers you You know what I mean?

Like a little bee's knees or like an aviation or something. Oh, totally. Exactly. That's what I'm talking. A little French 75 energy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like something that's like, uh, that sizzles, but also like goes with your outfit.

Wow. You nailed it. Yeah. And Buckley, I'm thinking for you, I'd want it to be a little more on the healthy side. You know what I mean? I'm seeing, I'm seeing something that's going to be like, like soda based. You know, like there's going to be a lot of like really good bubbles in there. we're going to get some herb, some herbal kind of things going on in there.

And then maybe something really, just really fresh. I want it to just feel fresh and healthy. I want it in a tall glass that's got lots of ice in it. And I want it just to feel like, like, you know, like this is, this is Buckley. Like it's a sexy, it's a sexy tall boy drink. Dude, that's actually, because I'm a soda water guy. So if you threw some soda water, you muddle up a little. Herb or food in there, pal?

Dude, you actually have a gift grubs. This is cool. You got to use this. I feel like this is like Joey on Friends when he finds his hand twin and he goes to Vegas and he's like, we got to do something with this. I don't know what you're going to do with this, but this is a real skill. I mean, let's just say I'm good at parties, guys. I'm good at parties.

If you're not doing this when you do shows, you are wasting. What you should do is offer an experience where people can pay to meet you after the show and you guess their drink. Wow. And then maybe you have a bar there to make it for him. Yeah, somebody else will make it. Yeah, I'll just write down what they should order at the next bar that they go to. Like, be like, this is what you need to drink.

This is what you need to have. That's great. Grubbs, we do a thing every episode where we pick an honorable mention from each episode. My honorable mention is, it's Chantal dancing. Oh, yes. That's just, that was team player to the core right there. Yes. She had to do a lot of that on this show, actually, but this was the first one.

I'll give it to Chantelle trying to feed the cow behind you. That just was my favorite. It was so hysterical. Which, by the way, it was scripted that she goes to feed the cow and the cow chases her. And the cow was not chasing her at all. So what you see is she's just making it work as best she can. The cow stays perfectly still and she still runs away even though the cow has done nothing. That's her just really committing to the bit.

So good. Grubbs, how about you? I love the you flipping the phone into the pool at the top. I love that. I think also, though, I really, I always appreciate any time that India is on screen. India, who played Miranda, my love interest on the show, India to Bo Fort. And she is such a rock star. And the moment where she comes in and suddenly I can't actually guess her drink.

Oh, yes. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. And then it's like, I can guess everyone's drink. but hers because it's like, what's going on with these two? And you show up with all the bottles in your arms. Yeah, totally. Like, what do you want?

And she just takes one, pours herself a shot of whiskey and then, like, hands it back to me. You see, that is a, that's a perfect example of how you introduce chemistry. Yes. Like, because that was so effective. I thought the same thing. I'm like, oh, she's his kryptonite and he's flustered for the first time ever. There's something here. Like, that was a great use of showing there's something.

something to start. Whereas, like, the scene at the end with Brooke and the guy, there's literally nothing except going, okay? Okay. Yeah. Like, he's not a bad guy, right? He's not going to do anything bad, right? Yeah. Yeah. Truly. Okay. Yeah. I love it. Well, let's spin a wheel, folks. Yeah. I hope we find out that Dan did go to Guatemala or to Chile or something really cool. Grubbs, go ahead and read it. Most likely to Skyd dive out of a hot air balloon. That feels like it would be very stupid because don't you have to be up much higher to skydive and get the velocity that you need for safe landing?

I think it's around 13,000 feet. Is it the same? Do they go up the same height? That's a guy fact, Rob. The fact you drop 13,000 feet just like that. That's a guy fact. That's like knowing what the population of Australia is just out of your, yeah. Listen, I've done it once.

And when they open up a giant door on the plane, And they say, we're 13,000 feet. We're going to fall out now. You remember that moment. Yes, you do. Oh, my God. I would, I mean, Alex, because she's just an absolute wild card. I think if Julian said I'd like you to go skydiving, she would say absolutely.

Yes. Out of a hot air balloon. She'd be like, I don't even need a parachute, Julian. If you tell me to do it, I'll do it. I'll jump. I would go skydiving out of a hot. air balloon, only for one reason, if the hot air balloon was going down. And I needed a way out. And you were just that prepared. You already had a parachute on? Well, do you know, I actually

was dating somebody at one point who was like, tried to wake me up really early and was like, I got a surprise. I'm going to take you in a hot air balloon. And I was like, oh my gosh, there's a, there's a parachute in it, right? He was like, no, no, I'm like, oh, I'm not going in a hot air balloon without a parachute. There's just, there's no way. I'm a single mother I can't die I love the idea the picture of you still on the pillow like oh my god that's so sweet is there a parachute no okay I'm not going and you just roll back over he's like oh okay I'll cancel that then

they're outside but no problem I'll cancel can you get your hope you can get your money back right honey all right yeah I could see mouth jumping out and it would be to save like a kitten or something because he's such a we got you be like i'm i see something in danger down there i'm going to go say he's such a good guy that's what i see but seriously grubs thank you for joining us today because hey it's so good just to see your face buddy uh it's been so long and it's really just so lovely to catch up with you you look great i'm glad you're doing great this was awesome thank you right back at you guys You guys are such, I mean, like literally total rock stars.

And it's so great to get to chat with you guys for an hour. It makes me feel just so full of joy and so grateful to be here and be part of this amazing thing you guys have built. So thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we can't wait to keep tabs on what you're doing too. I'm going to go. Everybody go check out your future ghost and go watch. Everyone is doing great. And you're going to be able to keep up with Michael Grubbs.

Next episode, season seven, episode 13, weeks go by like days. I wonder what will happen next. Bye, everybody. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Dream for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Drama, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.