Drama Queens - The Silhouette • EP 720

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

Sophia joins Rob to discuss Brooke's long awaited happiness and filming those hilarious scenes with Daphne. They rewrite what they would have liked to see of Katie breaking into Quinn's gallery.  Rob gives his perspective on Mouth and Ms. Lauren's drama and Sophia reveals the storyline that made her gasp.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hey, Sov. Hi, pal. How are you? I'm doing well. Good to see you. I know. I've missed you. I was so sad to not get to be with you guys on the last ones because I've been shooting grays. But I'm really glad the James sisters got to come in. And I watched all the cliffies and they look so good. It was so much fun. They did not disappoint. Where in the world are you right now? You look like you are in a library. I am in my den. And I have.

bookshelves my whole family is here for thanksgiving and so my office um has been temporarily put in my garage so that i can use it as an extra bedroom and i um yeah i had to like tuck myself into the corner today and sorry for the intense what is this this is i need joy to tell me like what the proper sound of your throat is when you lose your voice. But I feel like I sound like somebody's cool aunt who like smokes cigarettes and drinks whiskey. Yeah. A friend who does voiceovers calls it the cool guy rasp. Oh. It's like that vocal fry that a lot of guys who are trying to be like dramatic and dreamy at the same time do. Right. Why do you feel we both just did for the listeners at home as soon as we started impersonating that person, we both started squinting. What?

is that? I don't know, but I can't do a douchebag bit without, without like, squinting my eyes. So, like, Jenny will see me from across the room starting to walk towards her with the stupid eyes. And she's like, nope, nope, don't, I don't want it. It's just what we do. I love that. Episode 7, 20, season 7 episode 20, that is, learning to fall. I know. How has it been 20 episodes already? It's really crazy. It's been so much fun, but I am also shocked that we are almost ending this season already. That's crazy. Anyways, air date May 3rd, 2010.

Nathan and Haley struggle with the aftermath of her mother's death, while Brooke deals with the fallout of Alexander's Trist with Victoria. Oh, Trist is a gentle word. It is a gentle word. Alex discovers a secret about her leading man, Josh, that could derail Julian's film, and Quinn is confronted by an unhinged Katie. That's putting it mildly. Directed by Greg Prange, written by Shana Fuel and Renee Intel.

Can you help me with this one? Intler Koffer. Wow. First crack at it. You nailed that. These two are absolutely incredible. God, Shana Fuel just was such an amazing addition to our writer's room. I thought that, you know, these episodes that they did together as a team were just phenomenal.

So I'm so excited that they're doing their thing. This episode was fun, man. This episode was really fun. And I don't know how I forgot some of the details as they so closely related to broken Julian's life. But the first note I have, because I wasn't with you all last week, is, Halt Hill was blackmailing. Like I had a full, I had forgotten that Josh was behind that. And I, I was so aghast.

Same. It also feels like a, you know, an important moment in the timeline of when we are recording. I don't know if, if you guys have spoken about this. already, but we actually just lost Paul Thiel. And it's, it's such a surreal thing to have gotten that update after we'd all just been talking about the introduction of Josh and, you know, that he did the rehearsals and the workshops for Joy's musical of the notebook that she was working on at the time. Like, I don't know. It's just so weird because these things, feel like they were just yesterday and also like they were so long ago and then I think in that

kind of time warp of like the memories we we all made together when someone tragically passes away it's just so heavy and I feel really grateful that like in this moment we get to you know watch his work and that it really is such an important storyline and just kind of felt the need to voice my appreciation for him and send some love to his family yeah we We got into it a bit last week, you know, and Joy was sharing her experience with him because I sort of only knew of him just sort of in passing because we didn't really have anything together, you know. Yeah, you guys never worked together. Your storylines didn't overlap at this point. Right. You know, but Joey has worked with him intimately for an extended period of time. So she was just speaking to what the lovely guy he was, how he couldn't have been any more different than Josh, the character. Yeah. And just sort of celebrating what a great guy. guy he was. So, yeah, absolutely heartbreaking. Devastating loss, 35-year-old guy. It's so sad, so much love and prayers to his family and loved ones right now. And, you know, he had that

thing that prior to us recording when we were just, you know, testing our mics and talking about this week, like, he and Amanda Scholl both, you know, they do this thing in their storylines right now where they play these unlikable or scary people and they're just like two of the sweetest humans on earth. So I don't know what it was that our casting people had such a knack for making sure that folks who came in

to ruin someone's world on the show were actually so kind to be around. So I feel really lucky for that. What's interesting is I wonder if when they cast Amanda as Sarah if they had an inkling that they were going to be doing this down the road I think I don't want to speak to soon

but I believe we're going to have Amanda on next episode and spoiler alert hopefully that still happens otherwise I apologize but I can't wait to ask for that because I'm curious if it was one of those situations where the audition material was one scene Sarah and then another scene a bit more ominous much more Katie-like because she

kills it I had forgotten. I knew the broad strokes of this storyline, but I didn't remember any of the gallery stuff that happens in this episode. Uh-huh. And she made me so uncomfortable. Oh. She, like, makes my stomach get tight, you know? It's like such a visceral response of anxiety, and she's so, she's so still that she's terrifying.

That's exactly what I was going to say. There is a calm. and a confidence to her crazy that is deeply unsettling. Let me run something by you because I did have this moment of going. This sort of seems to be a theme just in storytelling in general

where once a character goes full crazy, they go full cuckoo pants, they also simultaneously become an expert cat burglar. like as soon as people go off they lose their mind then all of a sudden they're able to pick locks

scale second story balconies apparently turn off people's alarm systems exactly that's the one thing I found myself going like hey when she in the opening scene when Clay and quit her sleeping and she's just standing on the balcony by the way on the balcony

and they've got her leaning like the Marlborough man I was like what's going on here I would have felt so much more unease if I'd seen her walking and like trying a door handle but she's just kind of leaning I was half expecting her to be like slow smoking a cigarette it was so odd the stillness but maybe the oddity was kind of the point

is that like it's supposed to feel creepy and weird well a lot of the stuff that I kind of initially went huh at I think when you look at it under the lens of someone unhinged all of it makes sense but I agree with you too because I had the note of after the scene I was like what's the end game to that move because if you're the stalker it's usually about power and about control right so like what would have made sense was she put like a like a picture of Sarah on like the table on the balcony. Like something to let you, like, let Clay and Quinn know, I have access

to you. Yes. And the fact that she just stood there for her own satisfaction, I thought, first of all, you're a great climber, Katie. Way to go. And second, okay. Like, all right, but like, they didn't, they don't know. So again, it was, it, it plays into the creepy, but I did find myself going, was that, was that as far as your plan went? Just going to climb? Because also, she couldn't really even see them. There were curtains between her and them.

Oh, the curtains were drawn. She's in a silhouette on the other side of the curtain. So again, it's why for me, I'm like, well, why wasn't she walking around the balcony trying to get into the house? It just felt weird. And then even later, when she clearly breaks into Quinn's gallery, because when Quinn gets to work,

she unlocks the door with her keys. Yeah. Katie smashes the photo of you. and then plays hide and seek and then pops back out Yes I'm like how'd she get in there Where is said lock picking kit

But then she's back in the sort of store room With Chantelle And she's just so creepy It's like the jump scare of her appearing When she hangs up the phone with you That really got me And I was like okay tushay I'll forgive the balcony

Because that was really well done And again I think the other thing I can I can explain away all of this is you can't apply logic to an to illogical behavior so in other words she's not thinking through these plans with rationale like she's just she's just going for it she's just taking swings and not really thinking about the repercussions so all of it and under that lens I can buy but I had the same kind of moment I don't know that you did but like I thought okay so you went to a gallery You bought one photo, okay, you've paid for it.

We know because when I talk later, Quinn says it's already been shipped, which means payment has happened. So you went to a gallery, you bought one photo. You then broke into the gallery to smash the one photo you have paid for and then leave. It's like, really? Yeah. It's like it was odd. Then if that's the case, why'd you pay for it, friend?

Or why don't break, why don't you break the other ones and leave Clay the only one standing? Exactly. and then the weird thing too I love the way they had this whole conversation kind of in code because Katie's like I want him now even though she just broke it and then Quinn's like I've already shipped it

and it's behind her and I'm like oh man we're really we're all doing this thing I like that I actually always like when I can see the things people are actually saying under the words they're choosing to use. So I loved that part of it. But I was like,

oh, wow, yeah, Quinn's just going to like meet. She's like going to meet this chick's crazy a little bit and be like, I've already shipped it per your instructions, even though it's clearly in frame. And I was like, oh, I like this. And it kind of gave me the proof of what she said to you. Like, she's about to see how unstable I can be. I was like, oh, we're really going to throw down. I'm loving the girls like going tip or tie here. except I think though in that exchange where she says I've already shipped it it is not on the storeroom floor anymore it's now in the back room yeah so oh wait she says I've already shipped yes when she says it's already been shipped and then the next conversation is in the storeroom

because in that I love that moment because Quinn knows that Katie is the one who did this and Katie's lying so Quinn is playing the game and she's bluffing back going yeah it's already been shipped waiting to see if Katie's going to go, okay, or I know it's here and sort of implicate herself. So it was this fun, like in real time, Quinn was just very sharp and caught it and went, no, you want to BS? I'm going to BS with you and smile while I do it. Yeah. Well, and it was a very cool way for her to say the thing without saying the thing, which is I'm drawing a line in the sand. This is my territory. You're never going to be with my partner. like it it was a really well-written scene like again hats off to shana and rene because i was like

ooh it it made me feel kind of excited to watch quaint get to stand up like that and to your point i thought it was like very sharp and there was such an element of threat and danger to it i love that amanda was holding a giant jagged excuse me katie was holding a giant jagged piece of glass yeah just and you know there's such i think the easy i think the trap for a less experienced actor is crazy means i'm going to do the most yeah i'm going to give you big eyes and wild mannerisms it's sort of like like an experienced actor is playing drunk how they always overplay it you know and amanda does the experienced thing of no i'm going to play it subtle i'm going to show you in my eyes. And the result is just that scene where she has Quinn cornered, trapped, felt so much like

the apex predator and the deer. We were just like, how does this end? And to your point, because she just had that massive shard of glass, which gave me flashbacks to ghost. I was like, don't kill Patrick Swayze. Like, I really liked Greg's choice as a director because you understand that she you get the jump scare she's revealed she's followed Quinn into the back silently and because he kept the framing tighter on Amanda the whole time I was like does Katie still have the glass does Katie still have the glass like and that was I just thought it was like a very cool choice on his part because I you know I didn't know I didn't know if she had a weapon I didn't know what her plan was and Amanda's stillness played into that because

if she'd been waving her arms around freaking out, she would have actually seemed like less of a threat. Yeah. Yeah, there's a sense of control and power to stillness, you know. And that's right. I didn't even think about the framing of it, but that's such a good point because then you don't know. Wow, that was good. Well done. Well done, GP. Well done, team. We talked about this last episode, but I have been loving seeing Brooke and Julian finally happy. Brooke getting a break from the tears. It's so nice. It's nice to have a good time. And it was really nice to get into what for me as an actor was always some of the favorite work I got to do. Brooks sort of, um, you know, flustered, like, flemixed comedy. I always really enjoyed. And, and being able to do it because

Victoria's the ones growing up was so fun. Like, I just love being able to freak out. And, out at Daphne and have her be completely unbothered by it and just love it. Like it was always a really fun dynamic for us on set on the days where we got to shoot scenes like this. And there's a fun dynamic that we got to see in 719 that we're seeing again in 720 where it's Brooke being the parent chastising Victoria in the child role. Yes. You know, it's the second time.

It's been a sit-down. Brooke has sat down Victoria and Alexander to have a talk. And the result is so funny. I was confused when somehow Victoria gets confused for Brooke when the story broke? I mean, we are in a moment where our hair is exactly the same. And if I remember correctly, like this sort of big blowout kind of, you know, side part like thing that we're doing. We really did try to make her and I look very similar, and there's the one shot. I can't remember which scene it's in, but maybe it's when we're looking at the computer at the store, and she's over my shoulder.

And really, I'm like, God, we look so much alike. It's bizarre. I mean, even my mom is like, she looks so much more like your mom than I do. It's kind of a trip. And so this idea that everyone just sort of assumed that Brooke and her co-worker would be the ones in cahoots, because her face was mostly blocked by said inappropriate act, kind of tracked for me comedically. I loved it. And getting to be so mad that people think I'm my mom. Like, it's great.

And of all the people to be confused with for scandalous behavior, how funny it's your own. parent. Your own parent. It's not your dumpster fire best friend. It's like, no, it's my mom actually. But I think the only reason why I bumped on that was because there is such a funny moment in 719. It's the button Victoria has. I get the confusion. But the thing is she does this hilarious, slow, deliberate walk away from Alexander, stepping over mouth. And she looks down at mouth and that skills and she goes, scandalous. That's just scandalous. Yep. So I think the reason why I bumped is because it was such a powerful, hilarious Victoria moment that there was no way of like, who else was there? Because I was like, that was the funniest line of the episode. Yeah. Well,

you know what? For me, in my brain, I was like, oh yeah, that's exactly how things go. Like the telephone game gets played. Yes. And someone recounts the story and someone goes, no, you must have that wrong. And then it, you know, within two hours, it's become something completely different. And God, it's just so funny. Daphne is so funny. And in that very parental moment for me, you know, sitting them down, one of the things I really loved was watching them sort of have this conversation about like, well, I don't care if everyone knows. Oh, I don't care if everyone knows. And they're flirting in front of me. And it's just like, Is this really, oh my God, you know, and it's fun to play that dynamic because you're right. It's such a role reversal.

I'm excited to see where it goes because when you had that moment when Brooke goes, oh, are you not ashamed? I thought that was going to be the end of it. I thought that was the moment that Victoria is going to say, well, now that the cat's out of the bag, this has lost its appeal. But the fact that it turned into a flirty moment of like, I'm not you? No, I'm not. I don't remember where this storyline goes. so I'm excited to follow it. Yeah, like they're just doubling down.

It's great. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years, you carry with you a sense of

purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. in that scene.

I'm calling this the blunder down under instead of the thunder. And Victoria immediately saying, well, the flag needs to be much bigger. Like, it's just the way we get to bite back and forth at each other, and she's justifying it saying cougars are in now. And then Brooks' response immediately is, have fun with your cub. Like, it just, the wit in this. And whether it's comedic, like they gave to us, or really. sharp and quick, like what they give to Quinn in response to Katie, I just think the writing

in this episode is so top-notch. It's great. I also loved the way that they explained why Clay hadn't said anything to Quinn about Katie. Because that was a big beef I had right. I was saying this to Joy last week. I don't understand how you could go and have that experience and not come home straight to your partner and go, you're never going to believe what just happened, right? Yes. But I love how they explained it here where she says, hey, man, like, why didn't you say anything? Yeah. And he was like, what was going on with your mom?

It didn't feel like the right time. Yes. And I had totally lost track of that. So it made, I went, oh, yeah. Obviously. That is not the time to be bringing that story up. And by the way, I've experienced that more than once in my life. like something happens and you don't go to the person you normally would go to or you don't

bring it up in the moment because someone has just lost a parent or someone, you know, I had this happened recently with a friend and it wasn't even over anything like serious, but there was something we hadn't talked about. And when we talked about it, she was like, wait, how did I not know this in real time? And I was like, because your dog died. Like when someone's 14 year old pet passes away, you're not going to, like, bring up something that seems to suddenly be not important. And it's, it's like whether it's the most serious thing, which I've seen when, you know, years ago when a friend lost a parent, or it's something that, you know, feels more trivial on that scale. But someone's like, wait, I would have wanted to know about that in real time. I would have

wanted to be there for you. And it's like, you had bigger shit going on. And I think that's a really human experience. And so even in the context of something like top of scale, how crazy this is that Clay is having this experience, Quinn's mom's dying. Of course he's not. Like what's more important than that? And to your point, I thought it was a really, really smart choice. And I thought you played it so well because it wasn't like a thing where someone gets a little testy like well obviously i wasn't going to make it about me it felt like this really intimate moment for the two of you and not her being mad that you didn't tell her her just being like how could i not have known this and you being like how could i have talked about this at that

moment and it's it's two people being really generous with each other and i i don't know it felt very timely because I was like, man, I've, I've experienced this multiple times. My friends are experiencing versions of this right now. Like, it is really human. And you just don't always know, you know, when the right time is when you're trying to, I think, respect other people's experience. And I loved the way you guys played that. Well, and that's another kind of testament to, I think, also the writing. But both Clay and Quinn are gentle with each other. In other words, she doesn't hit him with the, why didn't you tell me about this tone, which then puts him in a position to not have to respond on the defensive.

Yeah. Where it's not like, your mom, you know, he just able to go like, yeah, man, this is what was happening, remember? Yeah. And it's a nice meeting ground when you can kind of both enter into it, like, with that sort of compassion and kiddie gloves with each other. You know, it's interesting you put it that way, because I also feel like that's what Millie and Marvin are doing with each other.

You know? Yeah. Her going to check on him and see if he's okay, even though she's really sad and knows he's in this weird, confusing place. Like, I really, like, yeah, of course I was glad eventually when Brooke showed up, especially because they could relate this, you know, the skills and mouth fight is very Brooke and Peyton in high school. And it's nice to see the history of their friendship feel so relevant. but I actually loved that Millie got there first and I loved that she chose to and to your point she's being really gentle with him

and because she's gentle with him it enables him to be honest and he's not defensive he's just confused and it's I don't know it's really nice to see all these people in this position where nobody's post during everyone's just trying to process together yeah that scene with her was so human yeah it was

so relatable where she because she asked him you know do you think of me and he goes yeah and she takes a beat and she goes that helps I was like oh yeah because I have to say I've been on the team mouth miss Lauren for a while now yeah I've been rooting for that and I still wanted it and was disappointed with some of the things that happened in this episode. But after that moment, I was like, okay, well, that's very sweet. YouTube got something there. But the skills and Ms. Lauren and Mouth Triangle, though, I found myself still rooting for Miss Lauren and Mouth throughout the whole episode.

I felt like she needs an emotionally mature guy. And Skills is just not able to show up as that guy right now. and I loved the kind of come to Jesus talk she had with him on his front porch where she was like, hey, let's introduce some accountability, you bounced, you didn't check in, and then you show up, like nothing has happened. Like, I moved on. I just, I loved it because also, again, she did it with compassion. She wasn't pointing a finger while she did it.

She was just saying, hey, this is the reality of the situation you created. Yeah. And I loved that she got to call him out. And he was like, it was only because of geography. And she got to be like, no, you didn't call. You didn't make an effort. And what she got to say without saying it is, you didn't just disappear on me. You disappeared on all these people who care about you.

And like, sure, you're out there working and the hours are crazy. I mean, who can understand, you know, set hours more than us? but you, you can't be upset if people move on if you, if you've left a void where you used to be. Yes. And we saw, you know, a scene where he and mouth are playing video games and Ms. Lauren walks in. And he says, oh, I'm on with the mouth or skills. And she says something effective, how's he doing? I haven't heard from him.

So he made choices. Like, he had time to play video games with his buddies. he could have had time to call her. So he had time to call her. He just chose not to. Yeah. And I think him coming back and wanting Miss Lauren is totally fine and well. It's just the attitude and the entitlement that he came in with where he's like, walks in, how's my girl puts his arm around her? I was saying it's very oblivious main character energy where it's like, well, I left the scene so all of the other supporting characters freezes, right? Yeah. And then he has the audacity to say their own point. I think it's at the gallery last

episode where he goes, hey, you seem, you seem distant. I'm like, bro, you've been literally distant and figuratively distant. Yeah. What? Hi, pot, meat kettle. Exactly. And sure, you know, you get that he's upset that it's mouth, because mouth is his friend. But what I also think is, what I think is great about it in adulthood, you know, versus all the teens in high school, it's it's not pick me drama it's like these are two people who both love you who both felt really abandoned and i get that that hurts you but are you really surprised that they like bonded in their sadness about missing you yes you know i think i've said this before on here but one of the most profound gems i ever got from therapy was when my

therapist said it's not about the damage it's about the lack of repair and i love that and i feel like that's kind of what's happening here where it's like if you had just shown up and been like hey my bad skills you know skills is saying like yeah sorry i just dipped out on you guys i ghosted you it's it would have been different but instead it's like he's not acknowledging it he's not oh yeah so yeah i found myself going come on come on and i went mouth yeah Tells, after Miss Lauren, anxiety bakes a cake for him and shows up at his place. I'm like, don't shoe her away. Yeah.

Come on, man. You know, Millie, she's, look, she's in early recovery. They say not to date in your first year. Give her some space. Do your thing. Yeah. Come on. I don't know.

It's interesting because as we talk about it, I feel really. appreciative that they gave everyone some complexity and that you could really, as an audience member, like, I feel like I'm on the seesaw with all these people. I'm like, don't, but oh, I get it. And I'm, like, I'm mad at skills, but also, oh, it's so hard to, like, come home from some all-consuming thing and feel like your life has moved on without you. And, like, I actually feel for everybody. There's no way to totally get it right. And I think that's nice because so often and maybe that you know it felt more true in the earlier years but like so often when there's tension between people it's easier when you're watching it like this to pick a side and i feel like

i kind of can't pick any sides and i like that there was also a lot of um subtext there was also a lot of things not being said that were which is great which is just so fun to watch you know because sometimes everything is very on the nose and heavy-handed where there is no deducing to do. Like you see exactly what's happening because the characters are literally saying it. Whereas in this episode, there was a lot going unsaid, which I think makes for a scene to be so much more interesting, you know? Alex, talk to me about Alex, Josh, Paul, and Julian. I love it. And, you know, something that was really interesting for me.

And I, and I was glad that we got to call this out really overtly and then less so, but make a point, like tabloid culture is so awful because it uses people as supply. Which is what narcissists do. Like when you go through narcissistic abuse and you have to learn how to recover from that and you understand that it is so hard because you haven't been having conflict or, you know, something that just ultimately isn't going to be the lasting thing between two people. You have a person who doesn't view their quote unquote opponent as a person. they look at you as supply for their demand for their whatever and tabloids treat people that way and you know it's like a it's a business industry version of bullying because they'll decide what you are and then they'll tell a story about you because that story makes them money even if you know they have all the evidence to the contrary and what really got me about this whole dynamic um is you you know, 2010, like, we were, we were so at the height of, like, you know, the TMZs and, like, the gross gossip blogs and the, and those people still exist. And if they decide they want to put a target on your back, they will. But we didn't, we didn't really have our own spaces online yet.

Like, the social stuff was, like, just beginning where you could actually be yourself. And I loved that we addressed this and that we addressed the way the double standard would exist for a woman and would exist for someone like Alex and that someone to your point who's in recovery is probably going to try to make themselves feel better in all the wrong ways as they stumble along this new road and it was 2010

it was two years before marriage equality passed in the Supreme Court. It's still not safe for a lot of people to be out. And it really wasn't at this point. And it really kind of made me gasp when it was like, how many leading men do you know that are gay? It shouldn't be that way, but it is. And I appreciated that Paul,

from his age range or, you know, his perspective at his age, I guess I should say, was able to give Alex this lesson and say, yeah, it's fucked up, but this is the way it is at current and we need to hide it. And in a way I hate and would obviously never recommend, but it was pretty heroic on a TV show since it was fake, for Alex to say, you know what, let's put this out there. And then the story's going to be that we're in love and then the story's going to be that we're a couple and yeah people are going to call me names but it won't be so bad if i was like oh my god this crushes my soul for all of you um but what a what a kind of snapshot of the time and then you know you got from like the heavy icky all the way to the very

funny with brook being like oh you don't care fabulous i'm going to tell them it was my mom hello TMZ and I was like I was glad we got to have a kind of we got to run the gamut of like peeking under the hood if you will on that conversation

it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball every day native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts The one thing I found myself wanting out of Paul, though, because especially since he's sort of turned over this new leaf with Julian and we're seeing him sort of evolve, I really wished in that scene that, as opposed to being 100% about that news affecting the film, if it was, hey, this wouldn't be good for the film. And also, that's his story. It's not our place to publicly out him.

Like just if there was some also mention of the like the human aspect as opposed to like, this would kill the film. Yeah. And then the other thing I didn't get was they obviously discover its extortion. Julian goes to Paul's room. Excuse me, Josh's room and is like, that's over. Give them money back. So they haven't lost that million dollars. And Alex still, it's her decision to still let the tape leak.

yeah and then what's odd at the end of it was she tells julian i i needed you to know that i believed in you too yeah and it felt it felt weird to me because it's like i don't understand if you if you wanted to show him you believed in his film wouldn't you just promote the hell out of it as like the greatest movie you've been a part of well yeah you're kind of what you're really saying is like i think this film needs a serious crutch to help it out well and what was sort of was like they still could have done the the press blitz and said oh they fell in love on this movie like she could have said i'm going to help protect josh and we'll use the tabloids to our advantage with this thing or whatever but yeah i i got to say like not to

not to be so serious well but it is a serious topic or not to be a debby I don't know what I'm saying. Fact is, the writing from this pair of women is so good. And that whole sequence, like for me watching it, I was like, oh, that has our boss's fingerprints all over it. Yeah. Like, the woman has to be a sacrificial lamb. She has to be sexually exploited.

She essentially has to experience digital assault because when people, you know, view you in an intimate act without your consent, it literally, like we know this now, you know, with deep fake porn and all this stuff, it creates the same response in the brain as being physically assaulted. And like the fact that we had this guy in charge of our show that was like, well, obviously,

she's just going to sell her own sex tape to make the money for everyone and save the movie. I'm just like, God, you're so gross. Like, you're just so gross. It was almost such a great story. storyline and then you just had to be so gross because what it suggests without saying the words is that that's an acceptable way to treat a woman and that that's how a woman has to be a hero and I was like bleh yes there's a serious element of like martyrdom unnecessarily so

in the scene when it's the first time we see milly back when Alex is just kind of downloading with her Alex so nonchalantly is like Like, oh, yeah, by the way, I was involved in a sex tape I didn't consent to. And she, I was caught off guard. Like, you're having a moment with your friend. And there's not even a hint of anger, remorse. It's just like, she says it, she laughs, and then she walks out the door and says a button and leaves. I was like, and that's her tone the entire episode.

Yeah. And so it was just odd. Like, I agree with what you're saying. it takes the weight out of what the implications of that actually are. Because essentially what we do is we model to an audience of millions of people that that's no big deal, that that's not a huge violation, that that's not something that causes like trauma, if not will give someone PTSD.

Like we make light of it in a way that is like so not okay. And then when there's this opportunity for this really, great you know storyline and to your point like no one was talking about you know people's whether whose job it was to tell someone else's story like the way we do now in 2010 but even I could even appreciate that you know the character of Paul the dad wouldn't be as conscious of that stuff as we might be you know past generation has to kind of learn what whatever but like we could have had this really powerful conversation and then it was like I know how to solve it, I'll go out and put this on the internet. And I was like, wow, we are, we're just,

it was so special for a moment. We were having such an important conversation. And then we're just going to throw the girl under the bus for the one millionth billionth time. Even if there has been a tiny moment of when she goes into Josh's room, if she sits down with them and she's like, hey, what you did to me was horrific. So here is how you can begin to make amends for it. Here's the story. I'm going to help you out, but you owe me. You know what I mean?

Just some sort of acknowledgement of it. I will say another thing that I found incredibly egregious was the slow-mo shot, because this happened in 719 when Clay sees Katie at the gallery, he drops his beer, and we do the slow-mo shot of a bottle falling and hitting the ground, as if the audience isn't registering that there's a tremendous amount of surprise. This episode, back-to-back. episodes, Alex sees Josh and his male friend kissing in the elevator, and she drops the ice bucket. And we have the slow-mo close-up of an ice bucket. Like, falling hitting the ground.

Like, what are we doing? Let us just watch the actor responding. Well, and by the way, not only is there the slow-mo. There was one other slow-mo shot, which did not make any sense to me, because the clay picture gets thrown to the ground, the glass shatters, and then completely still, they have Katie, they have Amanda Schall, standing in like a superhero pose.

With the hood. And the slow pan up the body and the boots and the thing. And then she pulls her hood off, but her hood wasn't obstructing her face in the first place. And it's broad daylight. And I was like, what is happening? And I have, we all have been in that position as an actor where you are told we have to do this and you're like, I think this is silly and unmotivated. And they're like, it's the shot that's going to make it all make sense. And you either figure out how to fight your way into doing something else or you kind of get strong armed into doing the thing that you know is stupid. And I was like, I don't know what show I'm watching right now. Like we went from One Tree Hill to the boys back to One Tree Hill.

but like she's not actually in a superhero outfit and I was like, God, she looks beautiful and it's a great coat and her hair is flawless but why are we doing this? She's bringing serious unhinged chic vibes to the beony. And in a weird way it was like it was the reverse shot of you dropping the beer bottle

in the gallery and then like in the gallery we pan up Katie and then we dropped more with Alex and I was like who got into slow-mo in season seven like this

I don't know I also had the same response as you when I when they do the pan up and Katie's in like knee-high leather boots and a superhero pose and she pulls the hood off

my first thought was you just broke into a place in broad daylight that hood is obstructing nothing and why are you choosing to take it was just it was so odd and sort of false

and also the scene with Alex ends, so not only do they slow-mo extreme close-up of an ice bucket hitting the ground. And the ice cubes. Like it's saving Private Ryan, the ice cubes flailing about falling everywhere. Then they push in from a close-up to like an extreme

close-up on Alex's face. Again, it's like the slow creep. As if we, it's just, to me, it was like, we don't need to hold the audience's hand here. Jana's great. Just let Jana do her thing and let's just watch or react also we are all seeing this we all are going oh my god josh is gay yes like we we know yes it's distracting to then break my concentration with the dramatic french film of an ice bucket hitting the ground and realizing its own fragility like what are we

doing yeah it was it was it was a little extra we didn't we didn't need it let's get into sweet, sweet hails. I did not know the storyline was coming at all, so all of it is surprising me, and it got dark fast. Yeah. Yeah. I think they're doing such a good job with this,

that the speed of it, and look, we've voiced this before. Sometimes I think we jump into things a little too quickly. I think the speed is really fast, But I think the, again, the writing is so good because the choices to make certain things feel impossible, which I think is so true when you are going through really substantial grief, like nothing feels important. Everything you're doing, you know, feels insane. It's like suddenly you're in a costume party of your own life. If you're like, what is everybody doing and why is everyone working and why are those people like just buying groceries, whatever it is?

It's so surreal that not everyone feels like the world has stopped. And I thought they wrote really great representations of that for her, like the inability to even hear what Miranda is saying. the the irrelevance of what meal it is like it's breakfast, eat this, who cares? Like, it's really subtle stuff, but I think it communicated like, what's the word I'm looking for?

The catastrophic nature of the loss for her really well. Yes, and I think the fact that we ended 719 with watching her, kind of have her first break by the pool. Because I agree this does feel fast. It feels like a lot very quick.

Like the Chinese food in the morning, okay, that's obviously not her, but let's be honest. Cold Chinese noodles are delicious, so not a huge strike against you as a parent. The peeling off in the Porsche and blowing off your shoe, that's big and then the

just setting the piano on fire. But I think the reason why I don't mind it so much is because grief is different for everyone and it doesn't follow a timeline and sometimes it can be slow and other times it can be fat like you know there's no there's no playbook for it so it's like okay i think i saw her break last episode so maybe this is what it looks like now that it's broken yeah i'm worried for jamie and and uh and nathan yeah but it's interesting we've seen these moments with him, you know, when Jamie's having a hard time and he just offers to be there for him

a few episodes ago. And then in this one, you can see Nathan processing that something is wrong and trying to figure it out. And he makes a choice, again, just to show up for his kid and not, he doesn't say much. You know, he says, your mom loves you and always will. He doesn't say she's having a really hard time and she's acting out you know mom's not mad at you she was upset that you know about the soup like he chooses not to say much and then says let's let's do this puzzle together he's just going to be there and it's really nice to not see him try to solve the problem but just be present for it which I think is such a common reflex for guys is that I know that my first instinct is always, how do I fix it?

Yeah. And it's a lot of times, it's not about that. No one's asking you to. By the way, I was just going to be like, yeah, same with eldest or only daughters, where you're like, I am, I have to be responsible for everyone and all their feelings all the time. Like, there's such a goal to jump in and say, well, this is how we're going to get through it. And I think it's really smart. And also, it's really nice as an audience member to see our. You know, Nathan Scott is like, he's the superhero of One Tree Hill.

And he doesn't try to save the day. He just sits with his kid. Yeah. And it's like, that's a really beautiful choice. Yeah. I love that. Speaking of pianos, I loved Grub playing to Miranda. Grubbs, excuse me, playing to Miranda.

Did you find yourself, though? And he's singing in the first line. is tell me why we're talking when we dance so good. Yeah. I was like, no, sir, you dance well. But I realized it had, because it had to, it rhymes with the following sentence. But every time he said it, I felt that little like neurotic voice in my head going, you dance well, you don't dance good.

Yeah, your grammar nerd is like activated. I think what was really fun for me about it is, again, I, you know, I knew their storyline was coming and I remember how it develops. but I didn't remember the episode by episode specifics. And I love that song. And so when he started, I was like, ah, it's here, it's here. Like, I just felt really excited. And I think they have such great chemistry.

And it's so nice to watch him make music. And I don't know. This is the hopeless romantic in me, you know, who's, desire to believe in the rom-coms like we'll never die he's like marry me and i'm like do it just do stay yeah you figure it out later who cares you know and i'm like am i am i good like i am i rooting for her to take him up on this offer and when he just stands there and sings to her i'm like yeah man do it i was confused by the time that that he says marry me they have they have kissed right like aren't they they're they're kind of dating right doesn't he yeah does she goes I think I have a boyfriend

because I was I was surprised with how taken aback she was I get that marriage is a big thing but in this situation if you're already dating the person I I had the same reaction as you I went this is actually just a good plan right well by the way that's also being an adult you're like listen logistically it's a great idea because if you get deported you're probably never going to be able to come back but you could absolutely get married and then you know dissolve have a dissolution. File for a fricking annulment if you need to. Like, we'll figure the details out later. Like, I immediately go

into what is the more sort of responsible strategic plan here so that these two can figure out what they're doing. And I don't know, maybe we're supposed to be so taken aback by that, but I was rooting for it. I'm a fan. It's so nice that what a luxury that we have so many talented musicians on our show. And then anytime you see

Either of them, like, winding up to sing a song, you're like, yes, let's go. I know. I was so pumped when he's in the studio. I'm like, oh, he's going to sing a song about this right now, isn't he? When he was writing it actually, when he's writing looking at, I was like, oh, we're about to hear a love song. Yeah. I know, it's really sweet.

One of the things that was interesting to me, too, is, again, there's moments that stand out in my memory. So I knew Haley was going to set the piano on fire. But I couldn't remember. I was like, is it going to be this episode? Is it going to be next episode? When she sits down with that martini go ass, I was like, oh my God, it's here, it's here, it's here, it's going to happen. I remember what a production it was with the flame bar. You know, there's these, for people at home, they basically have these metal pipes with holes in them, kind of like you do in a gas fireplace

that they can put on a sea stand and essentially suspend and make fire come out of it. And they have to to get that long line and obviously we weren't going to actually burn like a real expensive grand piano but then Nathan runs in and is like Haley and you know he pulls her away from the flames and he puts the fire out with that blanket and then I was like and I realized I wanted to see him like standing in front of the smoldering piano and then I went oh I forgot we didn't really burn the piano like they couldn't show you know the charred keys in the shot because it was fake I was so bummed about it I thought that we actually set a piano on fire until the end of that scene when we never cut to a reverse of Nathan's point of view yeah I didn't realize that that is how we done it

but yes I was sort of I was hoping for the same thing as well yeah and it's it's funny when you know You realize what great film school training working on a set is because as actors were like, oh, I know why that's not in the shot. Got it. It was special effects, cool. And then I'm like, God, it sort of can really kind of ruin the fun. But it did give me a little giggle. I like that you and I both were like, oh, damn, because I did want to see.

I wanted smoking keys. Yeah, let's see some charred piano. I also loved the way that scene ends with Haley, just sort of, her hay is just saying, I'm going to go call my mom. That broke my heart. It simultaneously told you how not in touch with reality she was and just how heartbroken she was. Yeah.

The stress and the experience of grief is, like, breaking her brain's ability to process the timeline. Mm-hmm. I also liked that we got an explanation as to why Katie. currently is the way she is when Clay has a casual lunch date with her roommate and she's like she's off her lithium

it gets bad and he's like how bad she's like real bad Molly you in danger girl yeah run so that was nice to have some explanation because for a couple episodes I've just been going why why would you suddenly

be obsessed with a guy when you have a lot going on exactly and then the other thing I really like which was just sort of a one-off scene was Skills and Jamie at lunch. I was just going to say this is actually, this is my honorable mention for the episode. Same. Yes. All right. Take it away. Tell the folks why we love it. Them, first of all, it's so cute to see Skills and Jamie out on their own lunch date of sorts. And I love that a, you know, a grown-up and a kid are talking to each other as equals.

It's a really fun dynamic. And when Jamie says, but he's your friend, and he's like, yeah, and he stole my girl, and to have a child say, well, you stole her from me first and we're still friends, to point out that all sorts of people have feelings of all kinds and, you know, maybe friendship is worth more than that. it's it's refreshing because brook has done it we were talking about this earlier like i'm the second one to go check on mouth right and i do it and he says well you know Peyton gave you a black eyes and she's like yeah and you told me i had to make up with her uh you know and then it's like Peyton married Lucas like what conversation are we having about you three at this point and and and the humor of that that mouth gets that from his oldest friend and then skills gets that from his like best little buddy and it's so simple like it's the perfect kind of um

real life manifestation of that phrase from the mouths of babes like kids just get it and jamie just gets it and he's like the first person that can remind skills of the bigger picture yeah he's a wise little owl remember the when there was the the beef going on between mouth and skills about moving out yeah and they were doing like the naked off and all that stuff. And Jamie goes, skills explains the whole thing and how he's feeling to Jamie. And Jamie goes, what did he say when you told him that?

And he goes, I haven't told him that. He's like, tell him that. And again, it's like, it's the simplest thing, you know? But yeah, I love the scene for all those reasons. And I also just really liked, because this also made me kind of soften towards skills because I've been a little bit annoyed with the behavior. You know, like I want better of him.

there is something special as a parent about seeing another adult take an interest and invest in your child. And I loved so many people are an uncle or they're this or that, but it's like they really only see the kid when they stop by. And I loved it so much. It made such an impression on me to see that part of his day, he planned an event for him and Jamie to go out just the two of them and hang out as friends. Because that is stuff that Jamie will never forget. And it's really truly showing up as an uncle and someone who cares for that little kid. And so I found myself going, all right, skills. Yeah.

I still love you. It's so sweet. Great episode. Honorable Mench for sure. Great episode. Honorable Mench. He is the honorable Mench. Yeah.

Good one. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls, became,

the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Alyssa wants to know we never met Clay's parents who would you have cast to play them? Oh my gosh, I have an immediate answer. Really? Yes.

Two national treasures, Ted Danson, Mary Steenbergen. Oh my God, yes. Wow. Because professionally they are both just incredible and they would be great. But personally, I love those two so much. I don't know them personally, but just I adore them. Anything they're in.

I'm like, I already like it. What are they up to? They would have been great. Yeah. Oh my God. They would have been so fun. Teddancing's so cool. It's crazy that you say that.

I want to say it was maybe after season seven. I did a pilot in second position to our show. And Mary Steenbergen played my mom. And Don Johnson played my dad. Whoa. It was like the most fun I've ever had. It was a hang. Miami ice.

Yeah. And Mary Steenbergin is so cool. Like she's so cool. And, you know, our show got picked up and that pilot did. And I remember just being like, I'm so happy and I'm also so sad. Like I'm so glad to be going back to work with my friends. And I'm also so crushed. I don't get to go to work with these amazing people.

It was a trip. Yeah, it was cool. That would have been, oh, gosh, she's the best, man. I feel like people like that, you just, when you get to work with people of that sort of caliber, like to do a show with Ted Dantin, that would, that would probably. change you, you know, as a performer forever. Yeah. I would read a phone book with Ted. I would do anything if they're like, it's a commercial for herpes medication.

You'd be like, fine. And you have to be the spokesperson, but Ted Dantin's going to be in it. I'd be like, slap a fake cold sore on me, baby. We're doing this thing. Yeah. I want to meet Ted Danson. I love it. Okay.

Well, Ted Danson, we love you. We love you guys. Should we spin a wheel? Let's imagine it's like, who do you think would be most likely? To do a film with Ted Danson. Oh, my gosh. Who do you like more? Ted Danson or Mary Steenberg?

And we're like, no. Most likely to forget their anniversary. Oh, dear. Well, listen, if we're allowed to get ahead of ourselves a bit, I'm going to say Clay because he has a propensity for being forgetful about things. Yeah, that feels fair. That feels fair. Dates are kind of tough for me.

Like, I have to look at calendars all the time to my. make sure I'm not inverting numbers. But I'm also so sentimental. I was going to be like, maybe it's me. And then I'm like, no, absolutely not. I would never. I don't think I could do that. You mean you as in Sophia, not Brooke?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. Because you got the character. And then I was like, is it me? But no, I don't think it would be me. There's things, though, that numerically I struggle with. Like, you need to know about when the women in Iceland walked out to protest and how, you know, took however many days and it was 94% of the population.

Like, I can take you through some social science, historical, something. I, I, there are people in my life whose phone numbers. I do not know and should. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I know the shapes, but I don't know what order they go in. But like, some I read about that impacted me about, like, wow, that was a thing that we did that worked good for humans. I'll never forget it. And it doesn't make any sense.

Have you ever heard how Einstein had a trouble counting his bus change? No. Oh my God. Are you saying I'm Einstein adjacent? What I'm basically saying, Sophia Bush, is that I think you are the Albert Einstein of social and cultural historical movements and read suit news. That makes me want to sob a little bit. So the next time you forget a phone number or how to tie your shoes, little buddy, just remember you're kind of Albert Einstein. You're like, and the bunny rabbit, go. Oh, I love it. This was fun.

This was so good. Okay, friends, we're going to see you next week for season seven, episode 21. What's in the Ground belongs to you? Sounds ominous. Can't wait. Can't wait. Bye, everybody. Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram. Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-HtH. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl.

Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop.

That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.