Drama Queens - “The Truth of it All” with Kate Voegele ᐧ EP615

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Find out who (or what) the girls believe won the episode, why Kate slams Mia and what made Sophia very emotional. Plus, the truth on both Mia and Chase and what really happened when James Van Der Beek came to set!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Ladies and gentlemen, we still have Kay Fogo with us here. We're doing episode 615. And unlike when we had her on the show during the strike, she's able to tell us exactly what she thinks about the storylines. All about it. On Wondtrial. Very excited.

Welcome back, honey. Thanks, guys. Thanks so much for having me. It's so fun to hang and to be able to actually chat about the show and stuff. So fun. Yeah, we were using code language last time. Well, now you get to tell us what you think of all the love triangles and like who is a dick on set, all the fun stuff. Ooh, all kinds of tea.

Yeah. This was We Change We Wait at aired January 19th of 2009. Do you want to read the synopsis, Kate? Me? Sure. Synopsis of 615, We Change We Wait, is Lucas and Julian struggle to choose a director for their movie. While Peyton has mixed feelings about a surprise gift from Lucas. Brooke struggles with issues about her relationship with Julian and Mia finally feels inspired by Chase. Oh, love it.

Directed by Les Butler, writer John A. Norris. Dream team. Good stuff. Dream team. We had such good eggs on this one. I don't know. They had some interesting lines in this episode. Oh, my God. There were some lines that you were like, this is, this aired in 2009. This is exposition. Yeah.

I just love at the top of the episode, like Peyton found out she was pregnant a couple episodes ago. And I come bebop it in the kitchen like, hey, what's going on with you? I mean, besides having a pregnant fiancé. So good. What's on your mind? That's how Jeff and I talk at home. I don't know about you guys and your partners, but. Oh, for sure.

That feels totally natural and exactly the way you'd speak to someone you live with. that's how I would drop the news I think if I ever got pregnant to Brett like that would be how I would tell him the first time you know like just I'm gonna I'm gonna co-op to that yeah if that ever happens you know that's gonna be my that's gonna be my go-to so funny in your back pocket how much at the show had you seen before you joined okay real talk I had never seen an episode when I auditioned because I was on the road so I was like I was in college and I just didn't watch that much TV. I was like, I was a, an art school student, so I was like super busy doing that. And then I was doing a bunch of work, like, you know, signing a record deal, doing all this. So I didn't ever for, I knew the show, obviously, but I'd never seen it when I auditioned. So probably another reason I wasn't nervous. I was like, okay, whatever. And then I got the part. And I was like, oh, man, this is season five of a show that, like, is like, because then I started telling people, like, and people were like,

Dude, like, that's the best show ever. Like, what do you think is going to happen with, like, Nathan and, you know, Lucas? And I was like, oh, my God, I got to, like, do some research. So I got, like, the DVDs on my tour bus. Yes. And I was like, okay, I'll watch, like, a couple of the first season to, like, get, you know, whatever acquainted. And then I would be, like, in my bunk for, like, three hours watching. And my band was like, oh, I think that you, like, really like this show.

And I was like, it's really easy to watch. Like, I was like, I'm not going to lie, you guys. There's some drama going on right now with, like, Nathan and Haley. And I just got to know what happens. So I'll see you guys in a few hours. So, yeah, I had not seen any bit. But so I had watched the first four seasons when I started in season five. So I wasn't, because I was like, I can't come in here, like, not knowing what's going on.

That's, like, lame, you know? Yeah. I do my homework, you know? Wait, so were you like a Brooke Lucas fan or a page? Lucas fan. Where was your loyalty? Oh, man. Goodness. Because we're doing a docee dough in this episode. Like, everyone has switched boyfriends at this point.

So I think it's relevant. This is relevant. Yeah, it's a dope. Right, because Julian had dated Peyton. Right. Exactly. And Julian's working on the movie. And Chase had dated Brooke, baby. And Chase a dated Brooke, which Mia has a very hard time with, you know, for sure. But I don't know that I have. had an allegiance necessarily. I think I was just like, you know, I kind of was like,

okay, I get it. Like, it's a, you know, it's a vibe of, I think, I mean, to be totally honest, I was like, is there like, is there going to be a romantic thing for, am I going to have to, like, what that's going to be interesting? Do I have to kiss one of these people? Yeah, and guys, this is, God, I don't even know, whatever, who cares? The first thing day that I came to set. I wasn't even working yet on set. I was just coming to see set in Wilmington. They dyed my hair black. And I was coming to take a tour of the set. And a certain person in leadership on the show told me, the first thing that person told me when I was visiting the set was that my first scene, and I hadn't gotten script yet, was going to be a makeout with a character

named Max the record store guy. Stop! And I was like... Hell! What? Yeah, that was... That was my welcome. What? To working on this show.

It's, like, bad enough to think that you're going to have to kiss one of these boys that's like a heartthrob on TV or whatever, but that's R.A. And I didn't know who that was. I didn't know who that was because I hadn't finished. I don't know why. I just... Maybe I hadn't seen the whole show. Yeah, I hadn't seen...

But I did not know who this character was. And so I was like, okay, that makes sense. Like, someone works at a record store or whatever. My character is like... someone our age. Yes. So I text my mom when I get back to the roof of few sweets and I'm like, I guess they have like a makeout with like a guy named like some Max like whatever. And my mom calls me and she's like, uh, who, who told you this? Because I think that's actually your boss maybe plays that character. And I was like, I swear to God, I was like, what have I gotten myself into?

I was like and it it took like days like there was never a follow up of like just kidding right no one clarified anything for you no it just I just kept getting scripts and I kept not having make out scenes with Max the record story guy and I was like okay oh I think we're in the clear but yeah so that was first day oh baby no and like and why wouldn't you believe that

because you're watching the box out of the show and everybody's kissing everybody like Brooks hooking up with teachers and shit, you know? Yeah, so I think I was less concerned about, like, who should Lucas be with? And I was more like, can I dodge Max the record store guy? Or is this simply, yeah, anyways, not to take it to a dark place, but that was, the making out is a, is it, you know, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, making out, making out's great.

Um, you know, just, just, just, yeah. So anyways, it turned out a lot better. Stephen Cloddy, much better pick. Had you ever kissed anyone on TV? Like, had you had to do that for music videos yet? No, not on TV. I hadn't, no, at the time of this airing, I hadn't made, I had a music video

where I made out with Derek Huff, fabulous dancer. Yeah, sweet guy. Yeah, he was in my music video for a song called 99 times, but that was after this episode aired. So, no, I had not, you know, I had been to college. I had been on tour buses. I had made out with a few gentlemen,

but I had not done it in front of people on TV. And guys, like, it is one of those things where you don't think about how to look. Yeah, certainly not with any of my bosses. I never had, you know, I was like, oh, my God. But, yeah, like, a lot, a lot to process, a lot to unpack there. Oh, my God.

I'm so sorry. And there wasn't like an executive you could call the double check to be like, hey, just to be clear here. This is both of the same. like who's the person who's like and I was like oh wait who's the woman that we could talk to we're those women now yeah damn it's us you are yes oh thank god well no I'm glad that you got chase out of the deal because he indeed indeed yes what a sweet baby things things worked out it was great It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, wait, so I have a question for you because, again, to your point, every character on our show, kissed every character on our show, much like being in any small town in real life. For sure. Or, by the way, I've even discovered some big ones. Tori and I were together this past weekend at a thing in Chicago. And she was filling me in on all this tea there. And I was like, wait, who did what with who's a what? And I just was like, God, sets are just, they're just sets, man. They just can't help it.

I love them. I love them. It's the show, you know, like, that's the show for sure. I know. Someone needs to write that show. Like, not a reality show. But I, back in, I guess would it have been season four? I guess it was season four when Brooke and Chase were seeing each other in high school. Season before I got there.

And Stephen Coletti had never kissed anyone on camera and was, like, terrified. Because, you know, he had done a reality show, but he hadn't like, it wasn't like, it wasn't like a makeout vibe. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and we had to like really act and it wasn't like, hey, kids, here's what you need to do tonight and go get drunk at this party and we'll film you and see what happens. It was like, you're in this professional place and you have to know where to put your face so you don't block the other actors light and do the thing. And it was so sweet to like be his teammate and friend and also be like, this is what it means when they say like hit a mark and this is how you cheat this. And you know, we got through it. And no tongue. No tongue. We got

threw it together. So what was it like to sort of experience the inverse? Because he was your first on-screen boyfriend. Like, did he get, like, what's the inside scoop? Did he give you tips? Was he helping you feel like not nervous about how to make something look real, but also make it work for camera? Like, do you remember any of that camaraderie?

It's so interesting. Yeah, definitely camaraderie, for sure. I think I just felt really comfortable with him because he just reminded me of like, buddy that you know he reminded me of like the the good guys in my band that I loved touring with like he was just fun Stephen we just hit it off and like we were friends and he was super cool and I loved his girlfriend at the time you know it was like we're just buddies um so that helped a lot I don't remember like I'm so like um people are surprised because I like sing songs on stage for a living in front of a bunch of people but I'm like a very introverted person and I was even more so

then like I'm very much like and so I don't even know if I like felt comfortable asking like for tips I was like I got to just I got to just wing it and seem like I know what I'm doing you know what I mean um so I was probably afraid to seem like I didn't know how but I didn't I was definitely the whole time like am I smushing my nose weird like this probably looks bad am I in his light like always was so like because that's a different that's a different thing that you have to learn that's not really a thing in, you know, performing on stage, getting in other people's light. And so he helped me navigate it, I think, just by being a good friend. And, like, being a pro.

And, you know, we did have good enough chemistry as buddies that, like, it wasn't weird to be like, oh, now we're making out. Our characters are dating. You know what I mean? It was like always, it always felt easy, which I think was like, so by way of that, it helped me be like, oh, cool. This is, you know, but then, of course, when you watch it back, you're like, oh, my God, why did I make that face? Or, you know what I mean?

Oh, my God. No, listen, what I like so much about the Mia Chase storyline is that so often we see guys on TV or in real life or on the internet now being like, you have to wait a couple days to call a girl and you got to play a cool and you, and there's a reward in being withholding. And Chase does not withhold anything. He out of the gates is a puppy. And it's just like, oh, my God, she's so cool. I like her a lot.

And I'm going to tell her to her face and also just like pop in all in time. Totally. No, it was really cute. Yeah. I do too. Oh, my God. So just, it's just absolutely. It's so JV.

You know, you're just like, come on now. That's not how real men are. Yeah. No, totally. It was a great. It was a very cute storyline. And, you know, that was fun. Because that was another thing, like, with being my first acting job, I was like, what if my character's an asshole?

Like, then you just have to do that and you have to own that and play that and convey that, right, you know. But it was nice that it was a cute storyline, you know, and they liked each other and that it, you know, that we kind of sold it. That was cool. How much did you know going in? Like, what did they tell you was going to be your arc? I mean, making out with Max the record store guy was the... Oh, honey, no. Oh, my skin is crawling right now.

I know. I'm sorry. I should have like come with a trigger warning, especially for y'all because I know you guys know this like, oh my God. No, we lived it, babe. And it was like, if we're just big enough bitches, it'll stop. And no. It just like got passed down.

There was no force that could have. Yeah. But no, you don't know anything. I don't know about maybe, I mean, you guys were like the stars of the show. So I was always like, maybe there's like a bit of a, you know, sort of a preview or like a story arc. I had no idea what was going to happen with

my character until I got the script under my door at the Hilton, the Riverview. No, okay, yeah. So I figured I was like, oh wow, okay, I guess it's just going to, we're just seeing what happens here. And so every time I was hired to

do another episode, because I think it was supposed to be a one episode and then it was supposed to be like a four episode arc, and then I just kept I was so grateful to be there despite all the crazy shit going on but yeah so it was like every week

it's a surprise and you're like who knows you know but really fun surprise to have that Were you a basketball fan going into this because that's how this episode kicks off we got a lot of Nathan Scott basketball did you go well no you said you went to art school you didn't go to a sports school

no we weren't that good at sports I went to Miami of Ohio, which is, it's a great school, but it's, you know, I think like, I think we're good at hockey or something, but nothing really basketball, though, I was a fan because, uh, I mean, this was kind of after the show ended that the Cavs won, um, you know, the NBA finals or whatever, but I'm from Cleveland and so I've always been a Cabs fan, LeBron, you know, all that good stuff. So, but I'm not like, I mean, my husband would tell you, you know, that I, he's like, you care when it's high stakes when it's like, you know, he's like, you are not a fan who's there from the beginning, which is, which is probably, my husband's an athlete. So he's like,

he tells it like it is. He's like, you know, but I'm, I like basketball. It's fun. It's fast-paced. Like, I like that aspect of it a lot. And I thought it was cool that it was such a big part of the show. Like, it was kind of interesting to have that, you know, be a, be a factor. What's your husband, the athlete think of this episode? Because, you know, see Nathan, Sitting the bench in this junior league is difficult to stomach because we all know. We all know. He's the star. Yes.

How authentic was that for your husband? He, I mean, my husband didn't play basketball. He played lacrosse and football. He played professional lacrosse. And he, I mean, I think he started every game in college. So it was, it was not his personal experience to be benched, but he understands the, He understands how hard it is. You know what I liked about it?

And I wonder what Brett would think about it is like, I liked that you have, because obviously we're all six years in, like we're diehard Nathan Scott fans. And I like that we have this guy, exactly as you said, Hill, who we know is so good. Like we know he can go the distance. And here he is really advocating for team above individual. And he's doing it, you know, with his teammates, with his coaches.

And he's also doing it with his kid. And him talking to Jamie Scott about how you have to have heart, how you have to prioritize your team. You win as a team. You lose as a team. I was like, this is a really good dad speech, man. And I wonder, like, does that stuff get to your husband at all? Or is he just like, well, yeah, duh, that's how we win? he's like is it just us who find it's happy and sweet or did he like it no he for sure does my husband cries

at movies way more than i do he is like a very yeah and he's like the team over individual all day long like he's he's like you know very much somebody in general i think in life like i think that's he's a great leader you know in his work environment and stuff like he's he's very much somebody who's about the collective and the whole and so it was fun because this was the first time we've ever watched the show together when we were re-watching the episode and he was like, you know, that he said exactly the same thing. He was like, it's so cool that they like wrote that message in and you're right. It's a powerful one to, you know, like illustrate how just because somebody's the star and they're not being appreciated for how great they are yet, like,

instead of sort of shining light on that and him pouting about not being, you know, viewed as the star yet he talks about the you know how how important the team is and talks to his kid and it's it's great it's a it's a life message you know it was cool i had a sort of out-of-body moment watching this because i i knew james vanderbeak was coming i just didn't remember like was it this week was it next week and for my high school college teenage brain that was reared on Dawson's Creek to have freaking Vanderbyt come in and play like a spoof of an artist and by the way like the literal star of that show like came to just play with us and visit his old friends and the crew who'd worked on their show and then our show and you know he walked in

as a guest star and had no ego about it like he really he committed so hard he made me laugh so loud. And I'm realizing in real time as you talk about your husband's mentality and how we see it reflect in Nathan, I'm like, oh, my God, that's kind of like what Vanderbeek did for us in this. Like, he just came to be part of the team. Don't take yourself seriously, kids. Obsessed. Yeah. He was a gem. Like, so, so nice. And I remember thinking, I was like, wow, okay, this guy's like a huge star. This is so cool that he, it was just really a master. class in like how to like he just really enjoyed the craft he enjoyed the people this was his second home from you know working there forever and like you said the crew and so much of like

the sets and stuff it was just really cool to see that because you do see people who in music in entertainment who like take themselves way too seriously it was just awesome to see somebody like him at his level just come in and be like have fun and he at asked me like all kinds of questions about myself was just such a nice human being and it was it was super super cool to see that well it's set a good tone for us like think about it there were so many people that had come off of teen or kid TV shows where they were like I never want to speak about that again I'm a different artist now like I'm changing my name to you know like I'm a grown up now and too cool they were too cool and we had Vanderbeak come

on and really set the example of like, no, you don't shoot on the thing that made you. Don't do that. That's gross. And then when I got to work with Tiffany Theson on white collar, she also was like, uh-uh, we don't talk shit about the thing that made you. You appreciate it forever. And so now we go back every year and do these conventions in Wilmington. And the going back was modeled for us. It looked exciting from where we were sitting. Like, oh my God. He comes in here like a king and is so benevolent and lovely and like just a fun guy and also making so much fun of himself yeah just totally like not yeah like being that there's just such a confidence in that and such a sort of authenticity there that was just such an exhale like he was

just such like an exhale to have around it was like god thank god dude how cool also i squealed at him stealing Lucas's explanation of his passion for this movie to win it from Julian's dad at the end like you guys because Fanderbeek did it in a way where I was just like

you dirty around and scoundrel and also you're acting your face off in this scene because you watched him make the decision and then the more he spoke the more into his own story he got even though he's a thief I loved it

it was so good It was so well done, right? Like, I, I loved that so much, too. It's true. He really, he delivered that so, so well where you're like, no, that was exactly what Lucas said verbatim. But I feel like there was code in this episode because in the scene where they're meeting with, like, the British director at the beginning. And the director's like, this needs to be eight mile. When One Tree Hill was originally written, that was the title.

that was used in the pitch. That was like, this is going to be the TV show version of 8 Mile. And then it turned into one tree hill, which is hilarious to me. No way. Yeah, it was supposed to be so much edgier

and dark and like, yeah. And so to cite that six years later and be like, oh yeah, we're doing 8 mile out here. Okay, good story. We're like, huh, what are you, what are you getting at? Was that the junkyard

where we did the teen people photo shoot? It might have been. But I was like, why is this, why is the director who's citing 8 Mile using like a phony, sort of British but not really accent and wearing Bono glasses? Like, I just didn't understand what we were aiming at, you know, especially because One Tree Hill is obviously the title of a U2 song that our boss said for nine years. He did not take from a U2 song, but like, obviously he did because every episode of our show was named a song title. After a song. So, like, I'm like, well, the pilot script was called. Ravens and then it became One Tree Hill

So it feels like it's a song title And now you've got this guy directing the movie about it Who's wearing like Bono glass I don't know It's Ardy man I really wanted to understand what those Easter eggs were But I don't think they were very well done Yeah

Maybe that's just because I don't like the person who did them Have any of us done a movie with a director like this They're all so douchey And most directors I know are the most introverted Like quiet weirdos I don't know any directors that are like like out there like that. No.

I don't know. No. I mean, I'm sure they exist, but yeah. It seems like one of those cliches. Like there's a lot of music business A&R guy cliches or like producer cliches where you're like, I mean, maybe like one or two of them are like though. Most of them are just like nice guys who like have two kids and like, you know, it's not like some skeezy music business guy. Like I felt like it was the director version of that where you're like, is this actually? thing. Well, the whole search for a director really felt like a stretched out storyline to me

because the easy answer to tell Lucas's story would be to hire a woman. Hire a woman. Hello. Because the whole book is about the women. They didn't even interview one lady. Not one. No. Oh, God. When you hear them talk about all the different options are like, this guy did this and this guy did an incest movie with sock puppet. and this guy, this guy, this guy, the easy layup would be to hire one. Very much so. Moral of the story. Bum out. Do we like Lucas and Julian together?

Did we like that combo? I really do. Yeah. They're brotherly in a way. Yeah. He really does. You pointed, Hillary pointed this out a few episodes ago, Kate, that, like, there was a while where people were calling Julian the third Scott.

Oh. Oh, like fans or, yeah. Yeah, and I had forgotten about this, but it, there really is this interesting balance to him of these two brothers. And it's, I think one of the things that's really nice is we got to see the actual brotherhood of Nathan and Lucas all through high school especially come up on the basketball court. And it was the sports that bonded them. But, you know, Lucas is our resident artist. And it's so cool to see him have. Like a comrade in art where they can be creative and talk about the scenes and talk about the energy and I don't know.

Maybe I just like it because we're geeky artists, but it's kind of sweet to see that represented on camera. I liked that too. I thought it was cool to sort of see the like the push pull of them trying to collaborate on this and sort of make decisions together even when they didn't always agree or like Julian's dad was like financing stuff. And so he was like, I get that you don't like this, but, you know, we have to consider this. And that's how a lot of collaboration is. You know, I thought they conveyed that really well together. I felt like poor Austin was being punished in this episode

because your sexy kiss with him last episode was too handsome. It was too good looking. And they're like, how can we bring the good looking down a notch? I know. Let's put him in this stupid hat and really. It was so weird. He was being punished for being too hot. That's what they do.

It's like, you flew too close to the sun, young man. Now we're going to have to make you look like an idiot. Well, it really, poor Austin, it gets so much worse for him because, like, I mean, Kate, you were there. Like, in later seasons, Hill, after you leave, like, they do a running joke for episodes about how he, his character can't high five. Yeah. Like, it is just the weirdest, dumbest. We'll have to have him back on later. to kind of talk about it because they really, they put that poor boy through the ringer.

But I will say our chemistry is so cute. Oh, my God. And I love, again, we talked about this a little bit last time, but I love, there's something so pure about Chase and Mia. And I finally feel like we're seeing Brooke have that kind of like pure sweet chemistry. And there's something about Sam being in the mix, like the kid walking in. on the pseudo parents instead of the other way around like it's all just so fun and it gives it I think it's a really smart device that johnny norris did as the writer like it gives us this puppy love kind of air even though especially brook has been through the relationship ringer and

i don't i don't think i caught onto it then i just thought it was funny but now really seeing it as a viewer and a producer i'm like oh my god that is a sweet flip that I don't know, it just makes it feel so, so, like, genuinely sweet to me. Yeah. It was a heartbreaking little exchange with you guys. The star of this episode, the absolute standout of this episode, is the blouse that Brooke is wearing. That white frilly brous? The frilly and the...

I mean, what were we saying in your Q&A episode about the soft female era? Just that, like, guitary, like... Yeah. girl that blouse Victorian lady I don't even want to talk about boys I just want to talk about you like the neck you like the neck ruffles and then the bare shoulders yes yeah fabulous you wore it so well like it was great yeah it was very timeless like it didn't feel like we filmed this in 2008 you know like it felt like I was like I would wear that tomorrow it was great yeah some of the things that particularly brook wears are very dated and horrible that blouse

I mean, y'all. Mia's hot topic wardrobe. Like, and I get that was the, that was supposed to be the mood, but it was giving MySpace. It was giving the whole thing, you know. MySpace bangs. It was giving MySpace. It was like. Oh, yeah.

I loved it, though. The Long Bieber. It was the time. I loved it, man. I still can only part my hair to the side. I'll never be able to part it down the middle. I can't do it. Why?

It looks great. though. It's so pretty. Elder emo, you guys. Yeah, the hot, listen, I like that we had representation. We had like high-end fashion. We did. We had hot topic, you know? It was a whole gamut. The blouse was incredible and it was the kind of thing that you wear when you are falling in love. This isn't like a casual Tuesday outfit. This is a, I'm having a romantic narrative right now. I need to look adorable. You did. Look like an adorable. So that when, if and when he comes by, I'm like, oh, this old thing? Oh, no, nothing will. Here I am. Just in case. It's very soft. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it was a, it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I do really like, too, that to your point, like, we keep doing this juxtaposition and there is something

about Lucas's book being the sort of thread woven through all of this, you see this grown-up version of Brooke trying to be a mom, trying to, as she says, set a good example. And then the whole device is like giving a boy a Letterman jacket. It is just, I keep coming back to Sweet, but it's like there's an innocence to it. And Brooke Davis has not known a lot of innocence in her life. And I don't know, it's really weird for me in a good way to watch it from this age and from where we all are is this group of friends who are grownups and to peer back and go, oh, wow, the sort of innocence and excitement and even the slow pace of it for her feels really sweet and refreshing. It's moments like this where I realized that I'm like I loved bringing her to life, but I also feel like she's like a sibling of mine or something. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I'm just so happy for her. I'm very protective of her.

For sure. Yeah. It was very sweet. There was a lot of undercover or just kind of alluded to innocence in this episode, though, because Brooke is like wanting, Brooke's being very young with Austin, not Austin, Julian, in a way that feels like a sophomore in high school where it's like, we're kissing, but I'm not going to let you go into my room. and like, also we could get caught, you know, like, there's an innocence there. And then he, when she's like, we should slow this down, has a very 15-year-old boy reaction. And it gave me the sense that he wasn't as experienced as he looks, right? Like, he, everyone's talking about the scoundrel grin. He broke up with Peyton and we dispel that mythology in this episode.

Yeah, so that's the thing, right? And then Mia makes a comment this episode, too, about Chase is like, so I'm going to be your first, like, listening to her song. And we're like, wait, is Mia a virgin too? Like, for a show that had all teenagers having sex in the first few seasons, now we're getting all of this stunted adolescent energy in our 20s. Yeah. Caught me off guard.

I loved that. And when you said that, Kate, you were like, we'll see. I was like, because she's about to play him the song. So she's talking about something else. Or is she? Or is she? But it's really interesting because the almost repeat adolescence, you even see with Nathan's storyline with Dan.

So many times in my notes for this episode in all caps, I'm like my heart, why do I like him? Why do I like Dan with Jamie? Like every time I see Dan Scott on camera in this episode, he makes me feel very emotional. And at the end of Nathan's game, when no one else is around and nobody sees it, he said zero points, zero whatever, one assist, best stats of the night, and then has a real heart to heart to tell him I am so proud of you

and he means it. It made me cry. I was like, I don't understand what's happening here. And in a way, you're seeing Nathan, even if it's just for a moment or a scene, you see him have the dad he always needed and never got as a kid. So even the boys are having this experience. We're all 15 years old inside, you guys. That's what's dumb. We are. Let's be honest.

We totally are. Yeah. You're so right. So if that was so, it was really so much heart in that. And I love that he took Dan's, like, comments to heart. And like he was working on, you know, like, watch and film, looking at the playbook and like, you know, telling Jamie like, well, I want to be ready. you know it was like it was really cool for dan to have like redeeming moments like that and paul does such a good job with conveying that because i i had like someone helping me with sides

once who said like a coach who was like even if you're playing someone who's like the bad girl or the bad guy like you your job is defined ways to make them human and to make people root for you even when you're terrible and like paul did that so well with dan in this episode, like, in general, but that scene was really, really, really sweet. Why is Dan Scott babysitting, Jamie? Like, I get babysitters are hard to find. But, like, there are people who I wouldn't let watch my kids for way less, you know? Oh, you mean murderers?

Yeah, I'm like, you know, they said a dumb thing once. I don't want them babysitting my kids. Yeah. He shot his brother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he wasn't in like a, like a car accident and somebody died, God forbid. But it's like this man shot his sibling. He's on parole. And weirdly, their dynamic, like actual Paul and actual Jackson's dynamic together is so sweet that I get why the writers wanted more of it. But I am wondering how Nathan and Haley have suspended disbelief enough to allow said murderer to be. be the person who takes their kid out for ice cream. A bit of a stretch. Yeah.

What is Haley doing? Is she teaching? Like, what is happening? They don't know. Once you get pregnant, because look, Payton doesn't have anything to do either. You know, like, once you get pregnant on this show, that's it. You are... It's over. You're locked up. Oh, boy. You're done. You're just, you're just sitting around waiting to deliver a quip. They just don't know what to do with you. Oh, God almighty. Let murderers babysit your kids Yeah, it's fine You can have him

You guys are going down to the river That seems safe Yeah Totally It'll be fine We're all 15 inside Haley was being 15 That's what she was doing

She's like it's his grandpa Nah What am I gonna do? No Everybody deserves a second chance Okay so but wait Is Mia a virgin Do we ever establish that?

Yeah I think that Mia Because that's a that's a storyline that whole situation Mia ends up there was a lot of obsession over that whether or not

that was a thing in real life which is a whole story for a whole other episode but I'm sorry I feel like I'm just like dropping bombs Oh babe we've spent years going into the trenches on this

you know and we never want to force anyone into it Oh, no. Do you feel like the real life stuff just bled over entirely into this for you? Well, I feel like it was weird because I think what happens sometimes when some things are real, like the songs are my songs, you know, and Mia, you know, looks enough like me, you know, like her hair and makeup was a little different, and her wardrobe was different than mine on tour. but like things start to blend

and so people assume that if something's happening in the story that that means it's also true in real life and so I thought the Mia yeah Mia's a virgin and she is obsessive later in I think it's later in the show over the fact that Chase lost Virginia to Brooke and she's like

oh my God like Brooke so pretty and blah blah blah like oh I'm so and I think that's like a scene coming up and then and then I think she loses a Virginia to Chase perhaps in a plane because he's a pilot and it's a very cute like you know it's a cute storyline

a very kind of pure like sort of you know romance that follows the same trajectory that's set up in this episode but there was like I felt like

I had to constantly be like that's not me as well like but I felt a bit like there were certain folks or maybe one, what's the singular of folks, I don't know, who really wanted that to be sort of, like, who asked me many, many times in many circumstances if that was the case in real life.

And I was like, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but like I have spent the last year living on a tour bus and I went to college. Like, we don't need to be obsessing over, it's women's virginity is a big theme, I think, sometimes. And it wasn't just our show either, though. It was a lot of those shows in the early 2000s or movies, like, losing virginity, you know. And it's like, it was treated well in the storyline of the show. But it was funny that in parallel, I was like, we don't need to. We don't need for this to become the focus of everything. No, we watch Lisa Goldstein just do the Millie storyline where she's a virgin and loses it like in a super, you know, messy way.

And so it is weird when a man is. telling stories about very female experiences because they want to feel some ownership over it maybe off screen as well. And it's like, oh, I'm not going to feed you my truth so that you can come up with a story. That's fucking weird. Yeah.

Right. It's like this character, that's great that that's her story. And I think that's really sweet. And, you know, but it's like, let's slow down. It doesn't mean it's like got to be, we don't need to be doing like a deep dive. on my sexual history as a human being. Yeah, it's really actually not workplace conversation at all.

Not really, yeah. I think what's really interesting about like what you're saying, Kate, and that whole dynamic was for all of us, the way it seemed like they really wanted to create a blurry line between reality and fiction and how that really ramped up in later years. I mean, God, I remember like, you know, I went to all girls. school from seventh grade until I graduated. I did three years of co-ed college. And it was really hard for me when the show first started, like being out in the world. And the way people would talk to me and the way men would talk to me, I was like, oh, you guys think I'm promiscuous because

Brooke Davis is permissible. All right. It changed the way men would like speak to me and approach me in public once our show was on. Like, even in Wilmington, because for the first couple months we were there, our show wasn't on the air. And everything was real, like, sweet and broly with, you know, the gals. And then when our show started to air, the way everyone would talk to me was really different. And I only share that to say, like, obviously the opposite end of circumstance in the way our characters were being portrayed. But like, oh, my God, I get how bizarre it is when everyone starts talking to you as though your body is like their business or knowledge it's so gross and I think it's even grosser to sit with the fact that you know the

conversations you were subjected to like the reason that men harp on women's virginity is because they think it's a thing they get to win instead of a thing we choose to shift for ourselves with someone we pick they think like I'm going to get it and it's It's like, it wasn't yours to get. Boo. You know, it's so gross. And the fact that you had to deal with that from your boss, our boss, who was married, who. Right.

Who pretends like he was everybody's big brother figure. And it's like, no, bro, we were all just grossed out by you. Yeah. Yeah. You're just trying to survive. And we're all just like, what's going on? Yeah. So what he does is he puts the cute boys in stupid hats so that when he comes to set, there's no

competition. He's like, oh, all the girls are looking at this guy. I'm going to make him dress up like a golfer from the 1930s. You're like, it's going to take more than a hat, honey. Like a lot more than the hat. He makes Stephen do anything stupid? Well, he made him a really bad bartender. Like he was like terrible at bartending and stuff. Like he just can't make a drink. Yeah. There was a gelding that all the boys went through. Yep. Right? Where it was like, we're going to have to make you a dork. There's a screw loose somewhere around here. I'm going to emasculate you in one way or the other. It's like, well, sir, maybe if you weren't wearing leather pants with a high up the crotch,

you wouldn't be emasculated. But that was your choice. That was your choice. And that's fine. You chose your choice. It's not working the way you think it is. You know what I want to end on? Because, you know, I would love to set our boss on fire all day.

But there was, despite that stupid hat, so much sweet energy for just. Julian and for Mia and Chase and Nathan and Haley and even with Dan, I never thought I'd say it. Lucas and Paige got engaged this episode. That's what I want to end on, you guys. Because again, you made this point that we're all having a second adolescence. The conversation between the two of you in Lucas's room is so sweet. I loved it so much because you managed to say, I don't want this. in a way that wasn't critical at all,

like what I realized I was watching was Peyton Sawyer. I was watching my on-screen best friend who's been one of my best friends in the world for two decades, literally sit down and choose her own dream come true. Like you said to him, I've always pictured myself wearing Keith's ring. And you just were like, that's what I want.

It's what I've wanted since high school. I want what I want with you and I want it forever. And I cried. I was like, oh my God, this is so sweet. Like, I really, really loved it. I loved it so much. I'm like, I'm feeling very emo even now. It was perfect.

I liked the combo of finding out the truth about Julian that he didn't go to Sundance. He didn't fuck some other girl. And it not shaking Peyton's reality in the least. Like, not for one second. Is she like, maybe I messed up with Julie? Like it, no, her concern is, oh, oh, I got to go tell my best friend because she likes him. I'm going to stay on my path.

And seeing Peyton stay on her path is something that I like because as a woman who in real life has really just laid down some hard decisions and been like, I'm going to stick with this. I like seeing a young person know their truth and be like, let's just do it. And so I remember filming that with Chad. I remember filming with him out at the water where our characters first met. And that was like a really big moment for he and I personally because that pilot was scary. Like I got yelled at on the pilot. Yeah, because there was an alligator and I got really scared and I couldn't remember my lines. I mean, fair.

It was like one of those, like it was overstimulation. And so in the moment when we filmed there originally, it was really, like, stressful. And so we got to go back almost six years later as grown-ups in a really low-stress, really celebratory way. And so that was nice. And I like, I just like content, Brooke and Peyton. Like, not Brooke and Peyton. I like, well, I like them content, too.

I like content. Who's the love story? I like content, Peyton, and Lucas. Yeah. Yeah. I do too. It's so sweet. Yeah. Just happiness feels good. Happiness looks good on everyone. Everyone deserves it. And now we have me to write songs about our happiness. We sure do, baby. Yes. Happy songs.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. from Maddie, well, we know from our wonderful Q&A episode with you that it's not pool, but she wants to know what your favorite hobby actually is. That's a great question. No, unfortunately, is not pool. My favorite hobby is, it's kind of like part of my work too, but it's art, like painting, painting and drawing and stuff. That was kind of my first love, yeah, as a kid, and it's just something that, like,

quiets my mind. Like, I just love it so much. I could do it all day long. Yeah. Well, you're really good at it. Yeah. It's nice to have a hobby that you're like great at. Yeah. Well, it's easier for something to become a hobby, right? Like, if you're bad, you know, if you're like terrible at something, I also like, I mean, French, learning French has been like a huge hobby for me. And you can't be good at that right away. You know, it takes forever to be good at that. So languages are like something that fascinates me, too. I love that. But it's a different thing,

getting to, like, a hobby where you're not good at it at first. It's, like, humbling, to say the least. I want to be as disciplined as you. For the last, like, five years, I keep saying my New Year's resolution this year is to relearn French. And every year I go, that just, that escaped me.

But maybe, maybe this year, maybe next year, maybe never. What's your hobby, though? Mine? Yeah, what's your hobby? Oh, I don't know, probably like, Democratic volunteering. Really fucking dorky.

Oh, it's a great hobby. Just like trying to make sure we don't lose the right to vote. Fighting for women's rights. Yeah. Like making way more of a difference than me is speaking in French. I disagree. Because if we all have to move out of America because, you know, women have no rights here, we're going to need to go with you to France.

So we'll get there one way or another. Indeed, for sure. Mindsets in between you guys. I am throwing the spring fling for our school PTSO. So it's a little bit of advocacy and a little bit of advocacy and a little. little bit of art. So if anyone wants to come and help me make big huge paper flowers, that's where we're at right now. Like tissue, paper. You are the best art mom. Like you're the PTA mom I always wanted and that I hope to be someday. Girl, it's true. It's just chaos. Constantly.

I love chaos. All right. Let's spin a wheel, baby. Kate, you know how this works. Most. Do I? I don't know, guys. We do superlatives every week. the most likely to, like in a yearbook, but we do it with this little wheel. Okay, the winner, most likely to respond to the Instagram haters. Ooh.

Oh, so you have to pick a character from the show, but then like a real life friend of ours from the show. Ooh. Character and real life. I mean, Sophia will throw down. She will... Yeah.

With venom. I don't like that. like when people are mean to my friends on the internet i don't like you defend like one of my core memories the one of the first couple weeks that i was in wilmington i didn't know anyone and i was so like overwhelmed and just like not intimidated by you guys but just by the experience we were all at the bar one of the bars on front street and someone stole my clutch and i i mean we hardly knew each other self and you ran up to the girl and said hey that's my friend's curse and you're not going to steal it. And I was like, holy shit. That is the nicest thing

anyone's done for me. It made me feel so like welcome. And I was just like, wow, thank you so much. Like this girl who's been here for years and already has like her friend group. And anyways, so yes, I think you are very fiercely defensive of your friends in a way that I admire very much. You sweet soul. You're dangerous. I kind of can't help it. And then it's funny because my friends will be like, why don't you stand up for yourself like that? And I'm like, shut up.

No, that's my job. Shut up. What do you mean? And that's the thing. Like, we all do it for each other. And I think maybe that's why it's so special. Who on the show? What character is like, not today? I weirdly feel, like, I don't know why I'm picturing a scene in my head of, like,

Bevin in Facebook group chats, just, like, responding to people in the best ways. Because her character had the best one-liners, I feel like TV Bevin would be the most hilarious, like, clapback queen of the internet. She would. But I like that you limited it to Facebook. Like. Because it can't be, like, so current. Right. It's got to have a joke built in.

No, moms are on Facebook. That is the mom site of choice. It's true. How we organize shit. Yeah, listen, I love Facebook. I'm out here. I know you do. Just looking up people I used to know and causing shit.

I love it. Yeah. I love it. That's what it's made for, you know? Like all this new stuff, like marketplace, like, okay, sure, sure. It's made for like keeping tabs on people from the past and like sniffing out bullshit. That's why Bevin's there. She's just like, yes.

I'm going to do a little homework today. I love this. Oh, Kate, we love having you. Stay forever. Oh, you guys, it's so fun to see you. Thanks so much for having me back. I will any, any, any time. It's so wonderful to see you guys.

And so fun to talk about the show, finally. It's so wonderful. If you need backup dancers for your music videos with Grubbs, you know who to call. Always, you guys, honestly. Your future goes backup dancers. We are always hiring and you guys don't even have to audition. Like, immediate hire. I'm so ready.

I love it. Yeah. Boom. We could abs. Oh, we should be backup dancer ghosts. Just super literal. That'd be so cool. Just saying, Halloween show, we're ready.

We're ready to go. All right, friends, this has been so much fun. We will see you back here next week for season six, episode 16, screenwriters, blues. I have a hunch. Vanderbeek might be a real pain in the ass to our boys, and I can't wait to see him do it. Love it. See you next week, cuties. Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens.

Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queen, drama queen, drama queen. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.