Drama Queens - The Truth Shall Set Us Free ᐧ EP613

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

There’s a lot to learn from what we don’t know.  Things become a little more clear as the girls piece together the truth about one of the characters. A spotlight reveals a crazy recurring plot line and an article from a real life part of the show gives a different perspective on the entire series. Plus, an intriguing listener question gets answered and Hilarie shares an important safety secret.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Sophia, you went through a lot in this episode, so I do think you should be the person to bring us in here. Guys, let me just say, weird to have missed last week and be like, what did I mean? Oh, oh, I missed a lot. But here we are. We've made it to season 6, episode 13.

Things a Mama don't know. This originally aired January 5th, 2009. Wow, that's weird that we're in 2009. The synopsis, friends, is that Peyton receives some startling news that she must share with Lucas while he is still in L.A. Lucas discovers that Julian has been keeping another secret regarding the movie. Nathan struggles in a new professional environment, and Brooks' search for runaway Sam forces her to confront her own feelings about the night of her attack. And there's lots of ands. Millie moves out of Marvin's apartment.

This was directed by our favorite Mike Leone, written by Karen Gist. And we have to talk about it. You were doing a different movie on this episode. Like, what show? Completely different. Were we all making? We're making like 10 different shows. What are you talking about?

It was like, is it full house? Is it like, are we doing party of five? It was the Wonder Years. the little boys. Yeah. It was like a lifetime movie with Brooke and Xavier. It was very, I had a, I had a rough time. I had that feeling watching this episode, taking notes where I was like, oh, this is one of those moments that makes me embarrassed about what we do for a living.

Guys, I left my notes at the house. Like I walked all the way down here to the garage. It's raining and I was like, oh, I have to go get them. And then I sat down and was like, no, I don't. No. I don't need those notes. You remember what happened. You know how you feel.

I actually liked the episode. And I think because at this point we'd kind of resigned ourselves to crazy, it was like, I guess we're doing some crazy shit. And so it wasn't shocking anymore. Yeah, we had really jumped the shark by this point. I will say, having not been with you guys for the last one, doing the recap, I was. was like, oh my God, what's going to happen? And I don't know. Maybe I didn't see it coming, but I really had no idea that this is when you were going to tell Lucas, you're pregnant.

And I loved it. I didn't either. That was a big surprise. Right? Yeah. And you played it so well, Hill, because like, you're so emotional and so hysterical. And I mean that in a good way, like hysterically crying. She could not. Yeah. Not hysterical, like the way that people say that to women. that makes me want to poke them in the eyeballs. But you're hysterical. You're hysterical, darling. It made the reveal really, really fun. Yeah.

That was a fun day on set because maybe that's why I like this episode, because I remember specifically what I was doing off set. And I had a friend from high school, this guy friend of mine. And we were both just like going through it. And he was like, I'm going to come visit Wilmington. I was like, great. And so we came down for a few days. and he came to set that day

that we filmed the Lucas I'm pregnant scene. And this is a person I've known since I was 11 years old and I didn't know how he was going to react, but I knew he'd be safe with Mike Leon behind the monitor and like it would be a friendly experience and we left that day

and he was so weirded out. Just like, Hillary, you just started crying. I've known you forever. It was just so weird to see you like farting around and that the second they yell action, you're just snot and sweat. Professional crier.

And that was, it was fun to have someone there for all this stuff, you know, and have a person from my real world, like touch grass and be like, that's weird. Yeah. Yeah, it was just a, Peyton was having a great time this episode. She had good news. So everybody else, I feel, the tables have finally turned. I know. I mean, look, the boys were fantastic.

How come the boys never have to fight anybody? How don't the boys have to cry? They fight. But I love Chad's reaction to the pregnancy news. And I loved when Lucas came home at the end. I'm jumping. But I just remember really like being in tune with Chad, with the baby stuff. Because that was new for us.

And we were pumped about it. It was almost like we were having a baby. They're just like, see how this goes. I like that there were any, any, uh, hint that of fear that Julian might interfere with Lucas and Peyton completely is gone in this episode. Of course, it's like the moment she says I'm pregnant, that storyline moves immediately over to, well, to Brooke, because he shows up to, you know, help her out. Yeah.

But yeah, that was fun. I also really loved the pregnancy reveal. I thought that was really well done. I did think it was going to be some big horrible news. And then you turned it your frown upside down. Wait for it, guys. Yeah, just you wait. And I like that Mia was there like very early on in the episode to kind of clear the air.

Because there was a lot of dark shit in the last episode that felt uncharacteristic of the relationships on our show. And so I'm glad that we just got to them. We're like, never mind, just kidding. Right. Well, that's what it is. It's never mind just kidding. Because here's what's weird about it is in the last episode. it felt like you were waiting on really on news.

Like you had heard that something was wrong and you were really upset. Because remember you took it out on Mia? You were so mad at her. You were really grouchy. What, but we never clarified that. It was just like now all of a sudden you're pregnant or did I miss something? Honestly, I think Peyton went into the hospital thinking there was like a tumor, thinking there was like a thing.

Yeah. Like they were testing you for ovarian cancer. But they make you pee as a woman every time you. you go to the day. It doesn't matter what, it's like a dentist appointment. You should still be in this cup. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that didn't even cross her mind, which is stupid. When I was in my 20s, I had like a pregnancy test in every drawer in my house. Oh my God. Me too. It's obsessive about it. Yeah. I still have, yeah. You know, you got to keep one around. She didn't have a mother. She didn't know. Nobody taught her these things. I did love that. I'm glad to be in the mother category because

I do think it gets you out of all the bullshit. because Haley is now getting to do all this, like, the full house stuff, like the sweet stuff. Yeah. The, you know, cuddling in bed, being sexy with Nathan. Yeah. It just feel like a dramatic version of full house. Like the whole Nathan and Haley stuff and the, even with Dawn, I mean, I did love it with the little boys walking down the lake and seeing that their friendship blossom. It was super sweet.

But it also made me think, is this the time now when were all of our fans starting to have? kids that were our age and so that's why they were like well this is now a family show that you can watch with your kids I just couldn't figure out thinking the show that we started making it it seemed disjointed for a moment to be now watching a show about two little kids not that it wasn't sweet just was weird yeah I mean it feels I definitely think it feels like a departure to watch the little boys but also Jackson such a good little actor yeah it's So was the little boy playing Andre. Yeah.

But I think they wanted to give him more to do. I think he wanted more to do. And, you know, he'd really been put through his paces for two seasons now. He's got big boy teeth. Yeah. And there's also something about. You have a fake tooth is gone. The flipper.

But there's something about the way that Andre allows for the Quentin storyline to stay alive. Yeah. And with Nathan, yeah, with Nathan wanting to wear number 12 and, you know, everything coming full circle with Brooks attack and the whole thing, it, it certainly feels like they, they leaned into it really hard so they could keep all of that moving. Yeah, I think so. Top of mind. That's what this episode was. It was all full circle. It's like if you go back, you know, you can go back a season, you can go back five seasons. Peyton and Lucas are finally together having a baby. You've got... Nathan's playing basketball again.

The basketball dream is finally coming true. Haley's getting back into music. Brooke is taking her power back. You know, like all those full circle moments are happening in this episode. So it felt big. Yeah. I agree. Weird, but big.

Weird but big. I was surprised about Julian's dad being the movie producer. Gregory Harrison? Yes. Uh-huh. What an abys. absolute dream boat he is. We wound up spending so much time together over the years, and he is such a nice man. And I mean, my God, does he come in like an 80s villain in this? You know, just like that.

Yeah, like that classically handsome. You're like, does he own the newspaper? Is he going to run for governor? Like, who's this bad man? And that made me giggle, too, because it felt so, it felt so weird watching him and Lucas together, that that felt like its own show. I felt like I was watching, like, days of our lives, and then I felt like I was watching Full House, and then I felt like I was watching a lifetime movie of the week where, like, the assaulted woman enact her revenge. And I was like, what are we doing?

Yeah, we should have talked more back then. We should have, like, done table reads or somebody. Yeah, wouldn't that have been nice? I feel like a table read really could have solved a lot of problems. Table reads would have been nice for us. No way. The Gregory Harrison scenes are so great because this is a show that's had some pretty complicated daddy issues. And this guy comes in and connects with Lucas right away. And I thought Chad was so good in those scenes. He was really listening and communicating clearly with this man. And like it was like a healthy non-toxic male interaction. They're being like vulnerable with each other. I liked it. Yeah.

And I thought like, oh, that's the dad that Lucas needed. That's, and then when Lucas kind of schools him later, it's like, I just found out I'm becoming a father. And I'll give my kid anything they want. I don't know. I just thought how great for Lucas to have an opportunity with a dad that's not Dan. Dan. And doesn't carry the damage of the Keith relationship. Yeah.

That is really nice. It's interesting that you picked up on that because I think the thing I couldn't get past was why is this grown man telling this adult man that he doesn't know that his son is going to try to fuck his girlfriend? Like I was like, it felt so out of character and unprofessional and like petty to me, but that's obviously the writing. It's not Sweet Gregory who did a great job with it. He was playing opposite the intention, I think, which worked really well. Yeah, Gregory just played it very like, I know my son and he's a mess. He made it, you know, personal and I thought his motivations were really good. But I was like, what movie producer would talk to a writer like that?

Like, what's happening? Oh, plenty. So you're helping win me over on it. Did you see the big picture in the office that was like the Warner Brothers Water Tower? Like they modeled this dude. studio executive after Warner Brothers and then they hire the most handsome actor to come in and play like Peter Roth, you know? It was like what executive at Warner Brothers were we trying to compliment with that little bit? That is so funny.

And also give a, it's like a backhanded compliment over saying that he's super petty and gossipy and, you know, weird. But I do think the redeeming quality of it is who Lucas gets to be. response. And it is, to your point, so nice to see him talk about what he hopes would be his own course of action as a father. That's really winning. And maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as winning if Gregory hadn't been petty about Julian. You know, like maybe you need the device to make the payoff work. I like that Lucas, it felt like he was, well, I mean, he did. He gave Julian the benefit of the doubt, which was unusual in that moment, especially since his dad wasn't a Danish sort of character.

But maybe that's what it was. He was just triggered by this sense of care for another young man who's got a conflict with his dad and just wanted to stick up for him and make it okay. Well, that's such a good point because while I was watching it, hearing Julian described, I was like, oh, my God, Peyton Sawyer dated two Nathan Scots. Like, they're the same boy where they're winners. They have rich daddies, you know, and they're really trying to fight the stereotype of who they could be.

They want to make art. They want to make things beautiful. They want to be, like, good family people, but those daddy issues are tricky. Mm-hmm. Same dude. And Brooke Davis has kissed both of them, too. Hey, yay. But you know what's so interesting about you saying that is because we've recently had that storyline that I love where Brooke and Nathan as adults are starting to rely on each other as friends and communicate about their upbringings and, you know, they're friends. And so it tracks for me as you say that, that Julian has similarities to Nathan. I'm like, oh, actually, I think Brooke and Nathan's adult friendship is probably in the energy part of what lets her see Julian too. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con, or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As we're talking about this, I feel like it's ringing bells. Do you guys ever remember people describing Austin as the third Scott Brother? Because it's essentially a hybrid of Lucas and Nathan. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I totally blanked on that until just this second. Yeah. Yeah, he does sort of fit in both of those pockets. I'm interested to see how this unfolds, though. As much as I disliked the whole movie storyline altogether, I'm really glad it brought us Austin. and Julian and I'm interested

to see how this goes down with Luke I was surprised that he stuck up for him but I'm glad that he did when does Gregory come back though does he just come on set for the movie is that the whole deal I remember him walking into Red Bedroom Records because he

yeah he came in with Greg when we were all like being introduced our producer Greg and it was Greg and Greg that's what it was and he was real like I liked the energy he put out because he was real like, I'm a family man. I go right home after work.

I don't hang out with kids. And I was like, all right. Cool guy. Yeah. Yeah. He was just really clear about who he was and what his role was there. And it was super professional. And I remember the contrast between what we'd been exposed to.

And then this new guy coming in. And I really respected it. It was nice that he articulated it so clearly. Yeah. So Julian's back on the movie. And then he's, and then he's helping Brooke solve her massive problem right now. Well, Brooke seemed to have actually solved it really quite well herself. He just showed us a little extra muscle. It was so odd to me, though, why it was blocked that way. Like, Austin and Evan just standing in the doorway, like looking around. There's not been pulling out a phone calling the cops. They're like, oh, she's got this handled. So I was like, this feels, all of this feels weird. It all felt so.

Someone told them that they were off camera. Probably. Am I wearing shoes? Can you see my feet? Are you my on camera? No. I loved Brooke's line, not a ma'am. Let's start with the beginning of Brooke.

Not a man. Not a man. Trying to find her, trying to find Sam, which is great. I really liked you in this episode. You also like very rarely don't wear makeup in, in, for Brooke. you know, she was always, like, done up. It was really fun to see you just lean into the whole distraught mom, like, not concerned about getting makeup to, you know, also there was so much pressure from the studio to have our hair

and her makeup and everything look a certain way that it was nice to be in a point in the seasons where we could just kind of do what we wanted, what was best for the characters. So that was kind of fun. But, yeah, that was my fave. Not a ma'am. Not a ma'am. Let's just get our priority straight. Like, I'm looking for my adopted daughter who's disappeared, but by the way, not a lot.

Let's not start there. Yeah, I love those little interjections of humor that, like, she just kind of can't help herself. Those were always really fun for me to play with. The storyline, I don't know, it's weird to watch it back because it just feels so extreme. It is. And watching it just makes me feel. so uncomfortable. And it also made me think, like, we get to the end of it, and they have me repeat his line

to him, like, you have a nice night or whatever weird. And they always did that with us. Like, I think about in later seasons. Yeah, they would always make us, like, repeat what the bad guy said to us. Like, I remember they, whenever that was, was it season eight when we did the big hurricane episode and, like, they make Chantel do it. Oh, yeah. And didn't Paul do it to carry?

Yeah, like, it's just like, God, what are we doing? Why every single time do we repeat the thing the villain said? I don't know, you guys. The whole thing just like made me cringe. I was like, I can't deal. It's so psychoderic all over again. It is. Like they knew that it was a moneymaker to beat a girl up.

And the thing that was hard for me is like we were in our 20s when we got beat up by Psycho Derek. Like we were grownups, but Ashley was like a kid. Ashley was a little kid getting thrown onto that bed by a grown man. Yeah. And that felt gross. The whole thing. Yeah.

I don't know that we needed to duct tape a little girl and put her in a closet to get our fan base invested. Our fan base was awesome. Like, we didn't have to go to the extreme that way. And so Brooke is essentially doing the same exact thing she did in the prom episode. Yeah. Where now instead of Peyton, she's coming in and taking duct tape off. of Sam's mouth and I'm not going to leave you. We're going to do this together, you know? I wonder how those things get past the writer's room. Like, how is there no one that's going?

Well, maybe the whole room was going. We already did this and there was, you know, one person that was determined to make it happen. But I don't understand why we had to go to the absurd extreme again. It just seemed so over the top. And my note here of watching a woman squirm, while a man looms over them, over her. It's just so unnecessary, and it doesn't fit our show. It doesn't fit the themes of our show. I didn't understand what the point was other than to make it salacious, and it felt really distasteful to me.

I didn't like it. Yeah, and just a lot of it felt like it leaned in a way that was just so uncomfortable, the way he was directed to throw her around the really sexual tone of the conversation like with me going do you think they're having sex and like speaking of mouth is yours is nice like what gross it was just like I don't know I just was like what why are we doing this and it's not that women don't get assaulted it's not that there aren't creepy men in the world we've all had our encounters with them but it's like why is this what we're choosing to do on

TV yeah we're not teaching anybody anything through this experience that's what was irritating to me it was just salacious it was just soap opera oh let's make him the bad guy by giving him gross things to say and let's watch her be really uncomfortable because that's what happens to women so he's a thief murderer and rapist he's all the things all the things yeah and and it just yeah it felt totally unnecessary because we weren't learning anything we weren't teaching anyone any anything there was no catharsis it wasn't it was it was totally pointless it really really frustrated me However, I really did like watching Brooke kick his ass. Thank you.

That did feel cathartic. There was a GQ article that was written about our show by the guy who owned Peyton's house. And I remember he called our show a rape fantasy. And I was so at the time, I mean, he wrote it like when the show was still on the air. And I was so like, what? And he was a buddy of mine. He was older than us. And I was like, that's what he took away from.

from the show, but watching this episode, I'm like, oh my God, for an adult man who has a daughter that's living on one of the sets and the fan base is like watching rape fantasy, I can imagine his horror. I would be creeped out, you know, like. Yeah. I wonder how Mike Leone handled this because, you know, he, just like we all have to do, you have to completely commit to the job. You've got to throw yourself into 100% whether you think it's ridiculous on the page. or not. So as a director who has daughters, I just wonder, we should ask him one day. Well, he kept the set so light so that it never felt threatening. That's true. Right. Yeah. Yeah, he was always had a very positive mindset and dialogue going. Yeah. Ashley kicked ass. She did.

She was so good. And I do remember him talking to us about liking this dynamic that the girls were going to fight back, you know, and that he really wanted us to go for it. And I mean, we choreographed a really gnarly fight. Yeah. Between Xavier and Brooke. It was violent. And he, Mike was really all in on, you know, this woman kicking this man's ass. And I was like, yeah, that feels right. If we're going to do it, like, let's do it. Yeah. And so I do think that's that is part of it right is you your job is to make the script you have so it's in a way you're in a box but you try to do your best inside of it did you was this post the hitcher for you or same time yeah this was years later oh it was oh i was wondering if it was like they saw

the you know they felt like that was exciting and we saw the success and they were like oh let's do it Just let's just do it again with Sophia. You know what I would have made it better if you had to teach Sam that cheer camp trick just real fast. Sam, make a table. All fours. All fours, tight core. He was like, what? Is this a cheerleader?

That would have fixed it. That would have been funny. I know, though, like, you know. like, you know, when we would get scripts like this, kind of that gut feeling of, oh, I got to do this, but, you know, they've been showing Brooke with a gun. They've been showing Brooke, like, processing all of this trauma for so long. Yeah, again, full circle, like you're saying. I'm glad to just like get it over with. Like, okay, fine. Yeah, let's fight. Let's be done. Yeah, like, let's do it and be done. And is it after this, does Brooke start to kind of go back to normal? Or do you, do you remember? I don't remember. Well, we know she put her head on Julian's chest right there. She sure did. She just crumpled right in. It was like speed where they kiss at the end because it's just been such an extreme day.

Kiss me. Make this day better. I've got to put my feelings somewhere. Yeah. In your mouth. Oh, God. It's also so funny because, and I know we've talked about this, but obviously, We had really tall boys on our show.

Yeah. And so we were always in heels, but because we'd been doing stunts, I was in converse. So, like, me leaning into Austin's chest, it's like my forehead goes into his sternum. Like, it's the least sexy embrace. It just looks like a kid's sister being like, oh, day. No, I really look cute. It looked cute. And then he, like, gives you a little pat, like.

A little pat pat. Yeah. They're there. Like, it's okay, honey. No, it kept it like nice and platonic, but also, like, what's going on here? Yeah, it was cute. It wasn't as cute as chasing Mia, though.

No, that was cutie. Super cute. Fun to see that starting. How is she only 18? Wait, is she, is that what we figured out? That's what her case. She says it. Oh, when she's teaching him to make Long Island iced teas, he's like, do you want my job?

And she says, I can't. I'm only 18. Oh, that's right. And I was like, excuse? But I guess we're all only 22. So. I guess that's true. It seems like we're so much older for all the problems we're dealing with.

It is so insane. Oh. I don't remember us driving around in the car. I don't remember chasing me a meeting. Oh, my God. I think the element of surprise for me watching this was great because I just, somewhere else there was a lot I didn't remember

but I wish I could remember why anyone convinced us that it was a sellable thing to do to stop the car just in the road shoot the scene and then keep driving I was like they couldn't have just put us on a process trailer no no no because we were

already at Quentin's house they're like not only other girls are going to stop they're going to stop at Quentin's house right up front of it must have been behind it had to have been behind on the day. They just had to get it done. It was really terrible. I was embarrassed. I was like, I mean, we did it. We did our jobs. But like, why? Yeah, there's no traffic. It's a residential neighborhood. Yeah, we're just stopped. I just need to say this here and then I can keep driving. But you literally

say to me, you go, you're driving, Brooke. And we're stopped in the middle of the street. Yeah. To be fair, I did think, from peripherally, I did think that it was that you guys were at a stoplight for a second. Do you think maybe they were trying to make it look like that? I mean, I wasn't watching it the way that you were, because you were there, so you remember. Every single thing just gave me the heck. I was like, oh, God, I'm embarrassed. No, you were just looking so hard. By the way, just so every woman out there knows, that bullshit about having to wait 48 hours when someone's missing, I believed that for years until I started doing it couldn't happen here and met with law enforcement and they're like oh no that's just total bullshit that's just what we tell people

so that you know we're only dealing with real serious stuff and so if you have someone who is missing make them try to show you the code uh because it's not real it's not real whoa no if you if there is a child or a woman or anyone that is missing just push hard yeah because when that cop was all like Ladies, she's a runaway. She's also an at-risk juvenile. Get her. Yeah, it was crazy. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories,

such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you guys see the lady on Instagram who does live for your safety? Have you seen this girl? I actually don't even know if I follow her.

She just keeps popping up in my feet. But yeah, it's a lie for your safety. It's like all the rules of how to, things that you can say to make sure that if you're an environment where you feel in danger, that you know the right lie to tell. You're never home alone. You're never, you know, I don't remember all of them. But they're really good. I should try and find some and send them over because it's something that I want my daughter

to know about too. I feel like there's a lot of these sort of unspoken rules and things that you can. can do that are helpful so you don't go missing right or sam needs that that's what sam needs she was so good ashley ricards man i just love her work all the time she always surprises me i was also surprised by milly and mouth in this episode are we going for it i know we just move on i mean that was rough i made me sad the vilification of milly here didn't make me happy. Same.

I didn't like it at all. Yeah, like I get in the heat of the moment. It's a fight. Oh, my God. I slept with somebody else and I was a virgin. I was supposed to be you. Like, that's heated. That's intense.

That's an intense thing to deal with in a relationship. I could understand why they would part ways in the moment and go, you know, stress out somewhere else. But like that last scene of her packing up her bags and leaving and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, too. Like, I'm sorry. You're such a slut. That you did this. Like, fuck off. Ew.

No, it made me really mad. Well, and what bothered me about it, again, it's like, it's the commodification of women and the excusing of men's bad behavior, which, I mean, we know who wrote our show, so fine. But it's so crazy to me that he has been behaving the way he's been behaving, like leading on this woman, having this really inappropriate flirtatious relationship, knows it makes. his partner uncomfortable and then continues it keeps going farther he doesn't stand up for himself or for his partner and then because she is like I'm out like it doesn't it doesn't matter the this idea that like she did the worst thing I'm like no we were on a break we were on a break weeks and months of being gaslit and like being lied to and when you have the courage to articulate you are hurting me and the other person is just like sorry not sorry you know

you're blowing this out of proportion go sleep with all the bartenders you want i don't care go milly go like i hated for her that it was not a special moment and that it was like a throw Of course, yes. But maybe Owen showed her a good time. We don't know. We weren't there. Did Brooke ever sleep with Owen? I don't know if they slept together.

I don't think so. Okay. Look at this little docee dough. Now Millie's shacking up with Owen and Brooke is making googly eyes at Julian and... Listen. I like it. I like it. We love it.

There's that moment in closeover bros where Peyton clocks. Julian and Brooke talking to each other about looking for Sam. And that was fun. That was a fun moment. You're like, huh. You guys get a free pass. You're good. Yeah.

Enjoy yourselves. We have to talk about Nathan. Leather varsity jacket. So good. I love it. Why doesn't he wear that every day? I don't know. Yeah, I love it.

I love seeing him. I like that they're, I'm so glad they're keeping basketball live on show because I was getting to I mean slam ball was great too but yeah we definitely need continue that I mean I'm not surprised he made the B league I knew he would only because I suspected it not because I remembered but that was fun why did they I don't know okay this is a I am a little uncomfortable that every bad guy trash talker that Nathan runs into is a black Male. Oh, yes. What the hell? Like, no, it's awful. It's pretty tone deaf and like, yeah, gross. Didn't like that. And it's happened over and over and over again. And what's frustrating is it like that's one of the things that you point out to the powers that be and they tell you you're being too sensitive and ridiculous. And you're like, but do you not? Yeah, because they think they're being inclusive. They're like, it's diversity. We're bringing in lots of people. who have color and you're going okay but in what capacity yeah just bad guys cool just take a look

yeah you're like you you really you really haven't finished the sentence yet have you okay okay but i thought that bad guy was great you know yeah did a good job he looks so familiar to me why does that actor look so familiar i really liked that he he put something the combativeness. Like so many people, you know, get a guest star role like that, and they're just supposed to be like, you know, the combative, angry, whatever. And he had something else going on. Yeah.

Yeah, he made it real and relatable. You could feel the pressure and the goals. And it was really, I thought it was a really beautiful performance that did more. with that role than what was on the page and I wish we could ask Mike Leone about it like, you know, knowing our show so well and for our friends at home, Mike Leone, who directed this episode was our script supervisor

on the show. So, I mean, there's literally no one who knows our scripts better. Yeah. And I'd be so curious to know how he would think about, you know, how to direct people because of that. Because these are grown-ass men tearing each other's pictures up. like that's yeah that was absurd that was so dumb i wrote that down in my notes i was like what adult men are ripping up each other's family photos like what are we doing but not the kid like he

wouldn't touch the kid but the but the wife and the whole family that's up for that was so strange yeah i don't know do do you guys do this in like in sports because they're like oh you're gonna like you guys we we are talking about an episode in which grown men ripped up each other's family photos, and I pistol-whipped someone. What is happening? What is happening? Like, what is happening? And the thing is, though, you know, when you go to a restaurant and they put all this shit together that shouldn't go together, like eggs on a donut, on a pizza, and you taste it, and you're like, I mean, all right. Yeah. No, I love it. Yeah. That's what our show is at this point. It's just

yeah eggs on a donut on a pizza and the salt and sugar mixed together and you're like fine yeah fine whatever just just it's all going to the same place you're like looking at it makes me feel a little sick but it is delicious okay so he this is bj brit he was in vampire suck agents of shield and peaceful warrior maybe shield is when i i don't know but he was he was really good i was glad to see what you said Sophia as well that there was something underneath it and it made me want to see more of him. Me too. Yeah.

Like I wonder are they going to become friends? Because that would be cool. I hope so. Is it that sense of healthy competition where he knows they're going to be trash talking him from the other team on the court? So they sort of give it to each other in practice so that they're used to it and build up their immunity.

I mean, I'm not sporty either. I don't really know. I love the immunity to the trash talk. Immunity to trash top We're going to go put on little shorts My jock strap We're going to say nasty things to each other Like I just This is why my child does theater

Go on now Talk about feelings Do that Well the toxic team mentality Is not good for anyone Yeah But this coach This coach has been in so many episodes

And all I ever hear Is him called coach And I'm like What is this character's name? It's making me nuts Who is he? Because he's a good actor. The blonde guy?

Yeah. How come Brooke didn't kiss him? I don't know. I didn't kiss the hot doctor. I didn't kiss the cute coach. What are we doing? Still mad about the doctor. Doctor.

It was a real missed opportunity. We have a fun quote from Jackson. Was it Jackson? Sometimes people have to cry out all the tears to make room for a heart full of smiles. I'm sentimental. I thought that was really sweet. Yeah. the little kids processing grief together really it just cuts to the quick of the issue in a very interesting way and and i

i know it's strange to kind of watch those wonder years scenes but i liked it for what you saw jackson process for the way that it kept quentin top of mind for nathan and then for what it offered to dawn you know her being able to have this moment where she realizes that her young child is seeing more than she thinks he is yeah because i mean that's the truth for every parent right like yeah my god and in my adult years as i've done therapy like all of us have you know i've taken some things to my parents and they're like what do you you weren't there or you remember that and i'm like hello i've been in therapy for 30 years what are we talking about And it's like, we don't often get to see that when a kid gets to look at a parent and say, I am affected by this.

And I thought, I don't know, I thought that that was really special and I thought it was a sweet device. I definitely feel that as a parent that I'm constantly surprised by how much she notices and remembering how at such a young age when there is grief to process and there are heart. hard things. You try and find ways and quotes and isms and metaphors and just ways to make it really simple for a child's mind to process things that are hard. So I think that's also why I really loved that quote because it felt so, so simple and yet so poignant and real. But yeah, I mean, it's true. The kids, kids see everything. They notice everything. thing. They just don't know what they're looking at all the time. Dawn, coming from a comedy background and doing such heavy dramatic work in this, I don't know if that's like the secret

trick, you know, like Steve Correll has that thing. Jim Carrey did it. We're like, you're a funny person. I was obsessed with Dawn when she joined our show because I was a kid that grew up on a different world. And then I was obsessed with 10th Kingdom and she plays one of the trolls and 10th Kingdom, which was a mini-series that came on, like, senior year in high school. Oh, my gosh. Wait, was this like the ABC Sunday night movie that was like a three-parter or something? Oh, John Lerick Cat? Oh, girl. Yes. She's one of the trolls on now. I had to go back and watch this. And so Dawn had done all of this comedic work. And she comes on to our show and there is zero funny about what she's doing and she just nails it. And I loved that she wasn't despondent.

She wasn't in her room locked up. She's still functioning in the kitchen, doing the very best that she can. Yeah. And the kid is still clocking the energy. In the cleanest house I ever saw. Yeah. But there have been so many pictures of her on the internet lately. We have some mutual friends.

And she's doing the reunion tour for a different world right now. So she's out there and like her cute outfits, dancing on stage with the whole cat. I want to go to the reunion tour for different world. Where is that happening? That show is so good. And I watched so much of it as a kid. And I'm like, what's the equivalent of that now? I don't know.

But I had such a crush on Malcolm Jamal Warner. I love that show. Was he on that? Yeah, he came in like halfway. I think he did. Maybe he did like a guest. Well, because it was, wasn't it where Denise went to college? Yeah.

So he would come in. And I think he came in on, like, for a season or something to visit. I loved it. Such a cool, cool cast. And so, yeah, Dawn, I'm glad we kept the Fields family as long as we did. When we started, we started this season and, like, quentin dies so quickly, I was like, what? I thought there was more. And so I'm glad.

I'm glad there was more. I hope there was more more. What do they say? I know. It's like, I want to see the past. parallel universe of our show and see what Robbie would have done in season six if we had not made that terrible mistake. We have to make the point, though, that Devin McGee was given a storyline and he was given work to do, and he did such a good job being a creep. Oh, so good. And truly

terrifying, you know, the light switch thing that happens when he's like, Sam, you better keep your mouth shut and then he's having that creepy conversation with Brooke where he's like, I'm just trying to get my work done. And he's being really like almost demure. Yeah, he's like really so understated. And small. It's weird. That's hard to do. It's hard to pull that off. I would think. I haven't had to play a real creep, but I would think that's pretty difficult to do where you're like trying to, I guess it's kind of like playing drunk where you try and play sober, you know? You can see him trying to play normal. And it's so, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I mean. Yeah. No, he did such a good job. And I love that he does conventions. And I love that there are fans that are like, I got to give me a picture with him. I need my villain picture. I'm starting to miss Deb. I really miss Moira. Just their presence on camera. And I feel like I need some more of that soon. I'm even starting to miss Dan. I feel like we haven't seen him in a while either. I know. What's going on? I need them back.

Did we miss any storylines? Well, the only one that we haven't talked about is Owen breaking a sobriety. Yeah. I was really curious. I thought that the sort of collision course of Owen and Millie was cool. Just because they're both great actors and it was interesting to see them as characters sort of run into each other with their pain. I do wish we'd seen a little more of what happened. And I want to understand, I don't know,

what did you guys think about the way they handled him breaking his sobriety? Because I didn't understand why it was happening. And then only when Chase comes, does he say, you know, they gave him pain pills because he got hurt and slam ball. And I was like, wait a second, this could have been like a big deal. Yeah. This could have been a really good storyline for him. And instead, it just seemed like he went rogue.

and then threw it all away. It's one of the hard parts, I think, about being on a show with a big ensemble cast. And also one of the puzzling things, because we did 22 episodes. So there was plenty of time to tease out some of these character development pieces instead of doing random violent storylines again. So it's confusing as to why, to me, as to why they didn't take the time to draw that out. but considering all the other things they were packing in, I feel like we sometimes ended up with caricatures of characters rather than who they, you know, really are.

And I wish I'd have been able to see Owen have some of his own moments outside of his connection to other people that are core members of the show because we were at a point now in the series where I would have been fine. I mean, Joe's compelling to watch. He's interesting. He's a good actor. We knew enough about his story. storyline his interactions with you and Rachel.

And so I would have been fine watching him have his own arc in an episode outside of his relation to any of us. Same. I wish they would have done that. It makes me feel better to hear that you wanted to see more of what actually happened with Millie and Owen because that was my gut instinct. And I didn't know if I was being like voyeuristic. But I wasn't looking for sexy.

I was like, what happened? Did he cry? Because he's drunk. Like, yeah. Did she cry because she was drunk? How did they say goodbye to each other? Like all of those things really inform. But that wasn't the point.

The point was Millie's a slut. That's the point. Yeah, exactly. So that's why we didn't get it. Yeah, we didn't get any real payoff. No, it all shapes how she's reacting to mouth the next day. Like, what was that experience? Was it sad?

Was it mean? Was it scary? Was it actually like kind of nice, which makes her feel guilty? like we have no idea and to not get a hint at that but you're right to get the violence over and over again when we could have had something that was really telling us a story. Substantive stuff. Yeah. What do we think happened? Do we ever find out? I don't know. The thing that I think about in terms of the Millian Owen dynamic is like Owen wouldn't sleep with Brooke. Right. Remember? He was like, I'm not doing that. Oh yeah. He has a whole.

thing about himself and I think about his sobriety and I would like to think that if they had that conversation there would have been a lot of like are you sure I don't know how I feel about it I would have loved to have seen her go all that waiting has done is made it seem like a bigger deal everyone's paranoid I don't know what to do you know like let them have a real conversation about why she might just want to get this thing over with and let him ask her questions let them make a decision like it's not something i think he would be flippant about given what we know about him as a character and i actually think it would have been such a cool dynamic to see two grown adults have a conversation and like make a decision and was it

then funny and awkward like did they have kind of a good time was she then like well it wasn't terrible but it wasn't with someone i'm in love with like how do i process that you know i would like to have seen real exploration of intimacy in the way we make our decisions. We got it with Mouth. Mouth got to have those conversations with like Shelley and with Rachel, you know, like he got to have these, let's talk it out. Let's think about it with Erica Marsh. Mm-hmm.

Talk about these feelings. Poor Millie is just the, the, no, she goes to being the angel to the horse so fast. Girl. It's terrible. It's such a bad cliche. Bad look. What a bad look, guys. See, I liked it when she got her duffel bag and got the fuck out.

I was like, yeah, girl, you're going to go live on your own. Yeah. You're going to do some things. Oh, I mean bad look on the writing. But yes, I was down for Millie. By the way, that's what Haley tells Mia. It's like, you got to go out and live a life. You can't write songs if you don't have any stories.

Right. Points were made. So everybody's got stories this week. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So speaking of making stories, we have a question from Kate. Can you speak to how you direct an episode that you act in as well? And how do you get support for the scenes you're in? That's an interesting question. Thanks, Kate.

So how did you find that? Did you enjoy it? I did. I enjoyed it. I think, you know, the way that I, I, I, did it, and I would imagine you did much the same, was, you know, our on-site producer, Greg, was on set every day when we were directing. And, you know, he was one of the people who directed the most episodes of our show. And essentially, you know, you would still spend your week doing

prep and pre-production and location scouts and all the things you needed to do. And then you would block scenes. And for the ones you were in, you would block them with your actors, people what you wanted to do. Your stand-ins would watch as normal. But then you'd step out and you'd watch the stand-in do the scene with all the actors and make sure it was looking correct. And then that would be it. And so when we would have to act in scenes, Greg would call action and cut. You know, we would converse in detail about, did the camera move happen the way I described it? Did it feel really fluid, you know, did the reveal work, because you had to trust someone else to be your eyes. And then obviously for all the scenes you're not in, you just get to singularly focus and

be the director. Yeah. Yeah, I did not enjoy it because I prefer to just be totally in the moment. So I want to be totally focused with what I'm doing, whether I'm directing, I want to be totally focused on that. If I'm in a scene, I don't want to be looking at the other actor thinking about what they should be doing differently to make the scene better or what I should be doing differently because I can't tell because I'm, it's, that was not fun for me. I didn't like that experience. I just wanted to be there and, like, experience it.

But you directed stuff after the show, right? I did, yeah, a couple short films and, um, commercial and some stuff. I'd like to do more, but I'm just not at that point in my life right now. Have you directed yet, Hillary? No. Why? You should. Yeah.

You really would be. very good at it. Well, that's nice. Thank you. I have a complicated relationship, I think, with scripted television. And I'm realizing that as we go through this process, because my husband loves it in a way that I still feel this resistance to, I had a person be like, Hillary, what do you watch? What do you love? And I was like, I strictly watch documentary. And so I have a some documentaries to direct that are in the pipeline right now. But there's something about telling true stories that feels really safe to me and feels like I'm not manipulating anybody. Like, because I think we were manipulated so much on sets, that really stuck with me.

And so in documentary, making sure that we are really like trying to uncover the truest version of the truth, because everybody has a different truth, that feels. that's safe that's better yeah we should just do documentaries on our characters but like they're real people like remember those MTV documentaries yeah true life totally I think that you should consider at some point doing a film or short film or something that's that is fictionalized because you do have such a strong grasp on reality the way that reality looks and feels on camera probably because you're watching documentaries all the time. It's like just in your, in your blood.

Yeah. Well, if you're not doing anything, I'm heavily involved with the middle school production of a midsummer night's dreams. So, you know. Julie Tamor, look out. Razzle dazzle. Yeah, it's weird how we all were groomed to do the same job as kids and how that changes. Everybody takes that one ball of clay and they turn it into. different stuff as we grow up and that's cool you know um yeah i and directing yourself sounds

like a nightmare i guess awful oh awful oh kate why'd you bring it up hey so what is our honorable mention like what did we love because i for all the stuff that were like this is weird this is weird this is weird i did really like this episode you did i liked dawn i thought she was great I would give my honorable mention to her. Or BJ Britt, actually, there was something really, like, cool about him. He made me want to come back for more of him. So anytime somebody makes me want to come back for more, I'm in. I'd give my honorable mention to you, Hill.

That reveal in the beginning that it's not cancer, it's a baby. I loved it. I loved it. That's good. You know, we all have, like, Peyton is sad trauma. and I was so, it was so happy. And then you were just like bumbling and overjoyed and I loved it. I was like, yeah, this, I needed that.

I needed a misdirect from like fear to happiness. Well, guess what, guys? The pendulum's going to swing back in the other direction. And you guys are going to be all happy, perky, everything's great. And Peyton's going to be like, doom. So we had our break. This is the top of the mountain. I really like these little kids talking to each other.

The only other time we've had real little kid action is when we had little Dan and little Keith hanging out in the tree being... It was so creepy. In the graveyard? Yeah, no, this was like earnest. This was loving. Our fan base had all become parents. They were like, yeah, yeah.

And I liked that it meant it's a break from the sexy. It's a break from the violence. It meant that the powers that B were saying this softer dynamic. is valuable and yeah i hope it grows yeah that was nice even though they were afraid of it so they had to put it in an episode with lots of ridiculous violence god can you imagine the little boy that plays quentin's little brother andre and he's like classmates i'm in this episode of one tree hill you should watch it and everyone in the second grade at his school is watching brook pistol whip someone like it's not the elementary school watch party

We have to spin a wheel. We do. We have to spin the wheel. All right. What if we just say whatever it is? We don't know what it is yet, but whatever it is, it's Millie. Okay. It's great.

Yeah. That is. Perfect. Most likely to be a contestant on Jeopardy. That is Millie. A hundred thousand percent, Millie. Yeah. And maybe Lisa in real life, too.

Honestly, yes. The flowers this episode. Poor Billy. We still believe in you. We don't think you're a slut. We've done worse. Sweet angel. No, not at all. Although, Sophie, actually, you really should be on... Have you done like a Celebrity Jeopardy or anything yet? No. Come on. You've got to do it. I would pay money to see that. Front row. I would be right there. No, you could do it. You'd kill it. You'd be amazing. Next episode, season six, episode 14, a hand to take hold of the scene.

That's a weird one. All right, folks. We'll see you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girls. It may be rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.