Drama Queens - This Wedding CRASHED, with Craig Sheffer • EP216

Episode Date: March 28, 2022

Will Dan let Keith have his happily ever after? And are we in support?! As the Queens realize that the start of Nathan and Haley’s relationship mirrors Jules and Keith’s, we wonder why we root for certain characters and perhaps not others?As Hilarie, Sophia and Joy discuss Keith, they begin to reminisce about Craig Sheffer. The ladies confirm that just like Barry Corbin and Paul Johansson, he was an amazing mentor, protector, and costar. And Craig is here to join the Drama Queens. The girls have butterflies, and QUESTIONS! For one, how did onscreen enemies Dan and Keith become BFF's IRL?Plus, the name of the game is always (early 2000’s) fashion, and Haley’s tour style is a-changing! So we must discuss the looks! And the mess Chris Keller keeps trying to make of her life!Last but not least, Peyton and Jake have what may be the steamiest show on OTH to date. And Hilarie, we need to know everything. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Episode 16. Somewhere, a clock is ticking. Air date March 1st, 2005. Whoa. Well, the synopsis on this one, guys, is it's Jules and Keith's Wedding Day, but will Jules make it down the aisle as Karen and Andy discover the truth about her identity?

Haley makes an appearance on national TV with Chris Keller that sends Nathan down a drunken spiral. Peyton and Jake take their relationship to the next level. Plus, Brooke tags along with Lucas to Keith's wedding, while her. Her future as a Tree Hill resident might soon be over because of her dad's new job. There's a lot to unpack in this episode. And we have someone very special to help us do it. Guys, Craig Schaeffer is joining us later in the show. We can't wait.

This was a good one. Yeah. Things kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger on our show. I forget, like, how many weddings did we have? I had a couple. You had a couple? Everybody had a couple. Every like six episodes we need a wedding or something.

Or a hospital. Yeah. Giant group event. I know. Well, let's start with the first thing that we all commented on because it's this director has directed many episodes of One Tree Hill. And it's Billy Dixon. And we all were just talking right off the bat with all the great shots and the beautiful lighting and just the way that he would capture where we are as characters using the camera. And I thought that was really neat. What did you? Well, he's our director of photography. If anyone understands the camera, it is Billy Dixon. And he also was a family guy. You know, his daughter was always on set. His wife was always, like, hanging out on set. And I was just telling you guys that his daughter, who used to dress up as a cheerleader and come hang out with us at the gym, just got married and had a baby. Like, I'm Facebook friends at them. And I'm like, there's no way we're old enough for Haley to have a baby. we are. It's so cute. One of the things, you know, for the folks at home that we were talking about when you think about how the director can manipulate a camera to tell a story, if you notice there's a couple of shots that stand out, you know, there's this low push upward at Karen and Andy when they realize who Jules is. There's another moment. I like the one where Jake is taking his coat off, but Craig is putting his coat on.

Yeah. So like Jake takes the coat off and then the coat covers the camera and then it's into the coat going around Craig's shoulders. It's all these cool things that. Lots of shots behind things too from far away long lenses. Barbara in the mirrors. Yes. Like none of that stuff for y'all at home is scripted. That's stuff that the director comes up with, how they do those transitions, how they support an emotional feeling with a technical choice. So it's really fun for us to. to get to see that, especially because, as Hillary said, Billy was our director of photography for many years. So he was on set with us all day, every day. I loved this opening, the sailboat, the way the water was glistening, Lucas running. What did you say? In slow motion. In slow motion, bouncing a basket, but Hillary? Listen, as I'm watching it, I'm like, oh, Lucas bounces this ball all over town. Like, he's been doing that for a couple seasons. And in my life, I'm trying to think if I've ever seen a teen boy bounce a ball through town like while he's running like on the jog that is an exclusive Lucas Scott trait I think yeah um but I loved that opening I liked the music it reminded me of like

90s rom-com beginnings Sophia did not like this music look I'm gonna say when it first started I was like oh this feels poetic and then it got into that weird twangy elevator music like thing and I was like, where are we going with this? What's happening? What's going on? So yeah, I went from a fan to not a fan. We transitioned out of it pretty quickly and I just got that nice quote. This is the beginning, the beginning of always. Something about the choice you make now is the beginning of always. Well, let's talk about choices now. Haley James Scott is out on tour. And how? Everyone's pressuring her. Smoke and hot is joy. As Haley on the phone like, I'm sorry, I've been rehearsing all night long. I can't help it. Yeah. I've never looked so good all night long my whole life. Oh my God. That's TV all night

long, baby. I like that you put that little gravel on your voice though. You were like, I'm sorry, we've just been up all the way. I was like, that was a good choice. I started. I owned my hair for this. Yeah. I'm so tired. You looked sexy, Joy. Do you feel like you were changing your style out on the road? Like, was Joy changing her style out on the road while Haley was also out on the road? I'm constantly changing my style. I mean, I have, I guess I'm constantly experimenting. I love fashion is fun, but I think style is what's permanent and, you know, that's just who you are. So, especially in my 20s, I was certainly always trying to figure out who am I? What fits? What makes sense for me? So I'm definitely always experimenting with fashion and have been since I was young.

but my style, there's a groundedness about my style that will never change, I don't think. Wait, I love the way you just said that. I had to talk just the other day about realizing there's a style I'm drawn to, but the level of experimenting I've done, whether with clothes or hair, I had this sort of light bulb moment where I went, oh, yeah, for half my life, I grew up in a barn so I was like in barn clothes for the other half of my life I went to a school where I wore a uniform. Oh, that's why you love blazers. Yeah. Sophia. Well, probably it has no individual personality and then for my entire adult life I've dressed up as other people. And so sometimes

I put clothes on and I go, who is this person wearing this outfit? Do you feel like that? Like you have to try on things to figure out what what you put on to? that feels like you versus some character or some look that maybe doesn't feel personal? I just had to give notes on a photo shoot I'm supposed to do. And they sent the look book. And I was like, this looks like someone who loves Coachella. I need you to understand. Yeah.

I am significantly more androgynous than this. Yes. Yes. And for me, like having played a lot of pencil skirts, that's hard. because in real life, I'm still wearing the exact same thing I wore in high school. It's like men's loose, baggy pants and then like a little shirt. That is what I wore at 16. It's what I wear at 40.

Yeah, I've been, I think I started vintage shopping when I was in high school, and that was kind of it for me. I just was never into designer labels. I, for no other reason that I, well, I couldn't afford them when I was younger for sure. And, but I, for most of my life, but, uh, I also just love history. I love being a part of history. So that's why I love old houses, old gadgets, old things. So old clothes to me feels like I'm stepping into something. I love knowing that somebody else wore it a really long time ago. I know some people that are too super creeped out by that. I'm like, ew, why would you put on clothes that someone else wore? No, speaking of my love of Blazers, I just found at a vintage store in Toronto. I found a vintage E. Saint Laurenti. and I put it on. And I was like, where?

You guys, it's good. It's blue. It's beautiful. And I was like, where did this lady go? And what powerful thing did she do in this outfit? And what of that energy am I going to take to go do something badass? Yeah. Like, it makes me feel like a superhero.

Yeah. It's the best. It's taking a talism with you. Should we open a vintage store? God. Yes. In Wilmington. Are you kidding?

Sure. Well, I don't want to give Jess James competition because she's got. That's true. I think we need to collaborate is what needs to happen. There we go. I would love it. You guys, Nathan at the top of this episode is bringing some very angry energy. We're taking Power Girl energy into our life.

Nathan is being so shitty to Haley at the beginning of this. But it's so appropriate because he is a 16-year-old boy and he's so hurt. And Haley's doing and saying all the right things. What can I do? Yeah. What can I say? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we've talked, we, not just us, but the world is recognizing that for a very long time, we've pushed boys into a box that is harmful for them. We tell them they're not allowed to have feelings. Boys don't cry, man up, toughen up, you know, grow a pair, all this nonsense that's so toxic, not just for the women who have to deal with them, but for the men who get segmented into thinking that their only permissible emotion is.

anger. Nathan is hurt. And so he's raging and it's hard and it's heartbreaking to watch. But I actually think it was done really well in that we didn't pretend that he had the framework or the tools to be this evolved person and deal with his feelings. His feelings come out as anger and the people who love him have to keep saying, we love you, we're here for you. Yeah. To try to push him into actually feeling his feelings. And I thought James did a really beautiful job with it. I really, I believed it and I, and I hurt for him watching the episode. And when he is finally feeling the sadness alone at their wedding site, like his mom comes. How's, it's just poetic, I think. It's, it, when you get a script and you read anger, right?

It takes a good actor to make you pity that the whole time. And James does a good job of... That's a great point. Of being sympathetic while also being a total ass. Especially considering where his character came from. Yeah. Yes. And a good actor puts the emotion under the anger that the anger is the mask for.

And that's why you go, oh, I see what I see what's under there. And you feel for that person. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Who else had some real anger moments and this was Moira. Hoof. Oh my goodness. You know what? I love watching her because she didn't just get mad and hit Jules slash Emily. She, her whole chest got red. Her face. It was like that, that Irish beautiful porcelain skin just turned, that rash went red all the way up her cheeks, down her neck, down her chest. Yeah, you know, she meant it. Yes, but that, I was like, God, she's just.

so real. She's actually feels that anger. You can't fake that. You can't make your body react. You know what I mean? That's muscle memory. Yeah. And as an older actor, I remember being a kid and watching like the older folks on our show do stuff. And I'm like, how do they do that? Right? And then it really is just exercise. It's muscle memory. It's like, how do I make my whole body flush? How do I make my eyes tear up? How do I make my nostrils flare? How do I make my chin tremble? But there's behavior, like you can, and that's like, the behavior can be learned to copy behavior, but to actually feel it. Where do you think whoever goes in those scenes? Who do you think she's mad at in real life?

I don't know, but I think she's literally in the moment mad at Jules. I think that's just, she's just, you said that once, Joy. I remember like asking you how you cry because you're so good at it. And I remember asking you that on our show once and you were just like, I don't know, Haley's sad. So I'm sad. And I was like, oh, that's it? Like, it's, whoa. I felt like Bill and Ted.

I was just like, mind is blown. Yeah. I remember all of us figuring out how to do those things. And same. Some people saying, like, oh, yeah, you know, I have this trick. I think about this thing, this loss I experienced. Or, you know, I like keep a pair of tweezers in my pocket and poke my finger. Yeah.

All these tricks. And I was like, I have to be upset. Like, I have to be really genuinely upset. And then I go home and I have to figure out how to get all this upset out of my body. Right. So I can sleep. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm the same way for better or worse. But I just recently shot a movie and one of the actors in the movie, super experienced works all the time and is incredibly well respected.

And he just like had the lady come over and blow menthol in his eyes. And that was it. And he was just like, it's all the same. The audience, it's movie magic. The audience doesn't know. As long as I can give them what they want, then they don't know the difference. I was like, God, that's just so baller.

I love it. And then I don't go home and torture my family. That's what I'm saying. Like, you're not exhausted. You're not like sending your heart through all this gut-wrenching experience. You just, and it was real believable. Well, Jules slash Emily

certainly got her ass handed to her in this episode. But we noted at the beginning of this, you know, Nathan is lamenting the whole situation with Haley and Jules is like in her spiral about what's going to happen with Keith, you know, and like keeping the secret. Yeah. Jules and Keith start out with a lie the same way Haley and Nathan do. And we're rooting for Haley and Nathan. Are we equally rooting for Jules and Keith?

Well, I don't know that we are, but what I think was a great deal. device, and I thought Chad played the scene really well, is they made Chad the one who called Nathan out on it. Like Nathan's talking trash about what Jules is doing to Keith, and Lucas looks at him and basically says, you started the exact same way and you love Haley. Yeah. And you saw how it disarmed Nathan. And in a way, I wonder now, looking back, if the writers.

did it almost as a device to remind the audience. Wow, you guys really want to pile on Jules, but you've sure been rooting for Nathan and Haley this whole time. I was kind of like, oh, I feel a little called out in my defensiveness of Keith. Maybe I should believe Jules. Hmm. What did you think? Right? Yeah, that didn't occur to me at all. I thought that was, yeah, I like that. Especially because Lucas was the one who was like, what are you doing to Haley? And then the naily of it all won him over. And so in a way, you see in that moment why he's gone along with Dan's plan, why he's moved in with Dan, why he's done all this, because he wants Keith to have a shot.

Yeah. Yeah. I do too. And I see, it's like they're really starting to grow on me. Like, okay, well, maybe if she really loves him and he really loves her, yeah, the lie is going to have to be uncovered and dealt with. but that doesn't change their personalities and what they bond on. They didn't let us see enough fun scenes between Keith and Jules.

You're right. You know, we've gotten to see a lot of romance between Nathan and Haley, which is lovely. And the only time we ever see Jules is when Dan is kind of like twirling his mustache. And had we been able to see more of the fun stuff between them, plus that would have been great for Craig. You know what I mean? He's such a great leading romantic partner. And I wish that we'd gotten to see him in that because we've only seen him pine after Karen and then go to the total opposite end of the spectrum and be like in a serious relationship with Jules. So where's like the flirting?

Give me some flirt. Yeah. Well, and remember how good it was like when they were on the phone and she said, oh, you're calling for a survey? Like we loved that. Yeah. Sometimes I lament when TV shows do the thing, which they do because you only have an hour. But they say, oh, well, off-screen, this has happened. And now what we're going to show on-screen.

But I want to see the off-screen stuff. I want to see more of, you know, their dates and their comedy and the way they, you know, share a plate of food at a restaurant and all that stuff. I want to see more of Maria Menuno's in that red silk robe. How gorgeous was she? I was like, somebody get me a red silk robe. That was a great. Lake pajamas?

Somebody get her a red silk robe. God, it was just so, like, she looked. looked so beautiful. All the women looked, sorry, it's just kind of a weird segue. But like, I just, I had this in my notes that the colors, the blue silk that was happening with Moira and Deb. And I loved Maria. But Maria did such a beautiful job with her performance in this and all the conflicting emotions. And, you know, you really didn't know what was going to happen. Like I was on the show and I did not know whether she was going to run or show's day. I didn't know. Yeah. I couldn't remember. And I liked, too, that you felt like maybe she was able to get past things with Dan

when she was in that, you know, robe and he showed up and tried to give her a necklace and she wouldn't take it. But it's the threat from Karen. And what a gut punch that is when Dan is trying to hide that smile and says, you know, way to go Cupid. This one's on you. Oof. That hurt. Guys, I get screwed up by the technicality. Because having been married, like, how did Jules get a marriage license with a hundred name? Like, there's all these little things that I'm like, oh, guys, we could have thought this through. And watching the show all these years later, the fact that Andy had to leave to go get that

photo in a manila envelope when now we would just pull it up on an iPhone. You know what? Like, all the problems iPhone solved, how do we even make TV anymore? Why wouldn't the PI bring the? photo to Andy. Andy's clearly paying him a pretty penny to do this research. He could have driven it to the church. Why did Andy have to go somewhere? Yeah, that was really weird, huh? Was it just to get Karen and Andy outside for that gorgeous push upward shot? Like, what was it? I think it was also to create more tension with the time. Like, is he going to make it back in time to reveal the thing? Yeah,

it was just an extra layer of anticipation. So it wasn't just to get them out of that weird kitchen with the bowl of carrots? What was with the bowl of carrots? What was with the bowl of carrots? The bowl of raw carrots. I don't know. Just a giant bowl of carrots. Who did set deck that day? Sophia, you know what I'm bringing to your wedding. A giant bowl of carrots.

I can't wait. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because, it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore

her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's switch over to Whitey. We had some great Whitey energy in this episode.

So nice to see him back. I love Barry Corbyn. I love. he's just so reliable. You just know exactly what you're going to get. And I love that he just hands Nathan's ass to him. The pity store is closed today. You know, she's your wife.

Where I come from, that still means something. He's so salty and he's not interested in Nathan's like, you know, feelings. He's just like, grow up and figure it out. She's your wife. It's meaningful. And it's like, it's exactly the counter energy to everyone. else, like panicking over him that you need for the comical leaves. Yeah, or coddling. Yeah, he's not one to coddle. I wanted to tell you guys because Barry, I always just love stories about Barry and we

love him so much. And I did Jordan Ross, his grandson's podcast, his grandson is an actor on 1883 and The Chosen and a few other projects he has coming out. But I just did his podcast called What's Your Limp? So Jordan is an actor with cerebral palsy and and scoliosis. And he walks with a limp. And so the podcast is called What's Your Limp? And he's had this limp since he was really young. And he was telling me how, you know, the kids at school would make fun of him as kids do, unfortunately. And Barry used to, when we were on One Tree Hill and when the show was really in the height of its popularity and Jordan was in that age range, Barry would come to school and bring him his lunch and purposely walk it to him in the

cafeteria where everybody could see him and then you know hand him his lunch spend some time chat with him and when he would go away all the kids were like your grandpa's coach whitey no way that's so cool and he would do it on purpose just to continue to you know support i just love barry so much that's the kind of person that barry corbin is yeah um if you didn't know what you you know what you see with Coach Whitey really, it shines through. When I think about the men that we had as our mentor protectors as young women, you know, we had some who weren't. But we had Barry, we had Craig Schaeffer, we had Paul Johansson.

My God, with our cast, we won the lottery with those, with those older men, with that energy and how lucky we are that, kind of love that he would, you know, show his grandson in those moments. That's the way they took care of us on set. God. Yeah. Just awesome. So I just had to talk about that. I love, I love Barry Corbyn so much. And I loved what he brought to this episode. He's such a fine theater actor because he can do that whole rant, right, where he's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, no, there's your story. And then the smile. Like, right, he's rehearsed in a way that is so perfect.

professional. And it just, you know, he makes it look easy. And that's not, to understand, to not fall into your same, like, cadence, your same just like vocal rhythms, things like that. Like, Barry always finds the turn. And if you watch his performances, he's just, he's a master at that. The smile at the end. Oh, just love him. What a prince. Also, I just love the dig on his way out after the smile. His ID's fake, by the way. Yeah, yeah. That's so great. Oh, my God. It was such a good button on a scene. And it's an incredible thing when you watch people take pain and turn it into something that provides the comic relief of a very emotionally heightened episode. I was like, this is fun.

I am deeply enjoying what I'm seeing right now. Somebody else in Tree Hill who definitely has a fake ID is Brooke Davis. And she was so fun. this episode. I love her. Almost rich girl things. I love almost rich girl things. That needs to be on a t-shirt too. Who's keeping track of all the things we say need to be on a t-shirt? Oh my God. I know. It's so funny. I also loved because I remember and I'd forgotten until it was on in front of us, but having to run into your room that morning hill and you know, you and Greenberg are in bed as Peyton and Jake. And Jenny's just said,

da-da. And it's this whole beautiful, you know, family moment for these young people. And I remember being like, you guys, I'm saying so many words before I acknowledge that they're in bed together. It's ridiculous. It was great. And then I was like, I had this moment where I went, maybe it's ridiculously funny. Yeah. And I remember how fun it was to lean into that and just be so excited to tell you something that for what felt like two minutes, Yeah. I don't even notice there's other people in the room with us. Yeah. And it really made me laugh today. And I was very happy. Classic Lucy. Classic Lucille Ball. Yes. But is the whole, like, is the whole stick that Brooke's going to leave town because her daddy's getting a new job? Like, I was just so fixated on your outfit and your cute hair and like you being funny that I was like, wait, what? You're like, another teasing you're going to leave too. Yeah, that was sudden to me. That was really sudden. I was totally focused on that scalloped, sparkle vintage or whatever dress, whoever.

made that dress. Betsy Johnson? I don't know. I don't know, but I want that dress back, you guys. We need more glitter. It's not my color palette. Like, Hillary, to your point, I'm much more androgynous. I wear a lot of men's suits, but something in my body viscerally yearns to touch that dress again. I can't explain it. I bet you just would be a nice addition to the closet. Oh, yeah, it was heavy. Yeah, I just want to see it in there and be like, that's mine. Oh, yeah. I love having sparkles in the closet. Can you, like, email. We need a professional, like, researcher that goes on first dibs and real real and finds us the things that we miss. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. We need a set sleuth. I, um, I, it's interesting, too, because it brought back, I forgot where the episode ended.

Seeing that dress again brought back the conversation that I now realize happens in episode 17. between Brooke and Lucas, that is one of my favorite moments in early seasons, especially for their storyline. And I was kind of waiting for it. And then when the episode ended, I was like, oh, my God, it's kind of a two-partner. This is amazing. I forgot. But the sweetness of them trying to have this budding friendship in an episode

where the writers did give me so much like, I Love Lucy Comedy. God, I'm nostalgic for that. That was like my favorite part of playing Brooke was when the comedy was really fun and then we got to get vulnerable. And, you know, she doesn't totally know what to do with it, but she's finding her way. Something really interesting about Brooke

in this episode that I noticed, which I think has been going on for a while, but it jumped out at me right now. um instead of okay it's just half baked so find it with me instead of blaming her like being unhappy on her circumstances she lost her money you know she's um there's a lot of drama with boys she's just she is trying to find her way but instead of pointing fingers and trying to solve the problem by um it pointing her finger at felix and being like it's your fault you know we're together but i don't really love you. I want to be with this guy. She just kind of settled. Like every, it was like

everything just kind of settled down. And she was like, I'm going to stop making rash decisions, making, having big reactions to things. I'm going to spend time finding myself. And I'm not going to blame my happiness or unhappiness on my circumstances. I'm going to let the circumstances say the same. So that to me, I guess maybe that to me is how I justified her not breaking up with Felix yet when she clearly is like still has feelings for Lucas or might might have feelings for someone else too. It's more just in the future. I mean, it's just that she was finding herself instead of constantly pulling on everything, strings on everything around her. Like what's going to unravel? How do I fix myself? Yeah. Well, it's it's kind of a precursor to later seasons

where she says I stopped letting boys define me. She's in the beginning of that going, I don't know that I'm happy. He's, he's, he's being good to me. I don't know if that's enough, but I, it's more about me. I'm, she says I'm, I'm feeling independent. Yeah. That's such a yes. Maybe I don't want a boyfriend. It's so nice. And she's just going to take a second before she involves anyone else's feelings and figure out how she feels and then act from that place. Oh, what release. She's so joyful in this episode, which is nice because we've seen, we meet Brooke and she's super joyful, but she's also like playing a part like, I'm the bad girl. And then she goes through her like dark manipulative phase at the Nathan Scott party. And then we see Sadbrook, whose heart is broken.

And so to get happy, independent, hopeful Brooke Davis in this episode feels great. And the gif that we all know, that we all love, we squealed. So cute. I was like, wait, that's my gift. When they decide they're going to go to the wedding together. Oh, I love that gift. It's so iconic that scene. And you're so, I mean, I remember Paul telling us when he was directing to commit.

He's like, you have to commit to things. If you half ass it, you look silly, right? Yeah. And you were always so good. at committing to that like over the top excitement you made it so believable that it's like yes of course that's how a 16 year old girl would react she would literally squeal as we all did when we watched you do it yeah that's so cute girls still 16 year old girls deep down um can we talk about Peyton and Jake please I mean if we must guys guys really sexy oh my god

That was, like, the most sex we've had on the show, I feel like. All right, all right. A hundred percent. Also, I'm realizing in this moment, Brooke is kind of the audience. Like, I got to say everything that the audience was saying at home, which is like, oh, my God, you guys are in bed together. What are you doing? I'm going to leave.

Okay, bye. Like, what's happening? And when you guys get to the church and she's like, you did it. Like, I was speaking for the entire One Tree Hill fandom in that moment being like, I can see it on your face. What? I certainly felt it. And we saw it in that scene.

Woo! Okay. We had to divert our eyes, guys. Yeah, I can't watch it. It's uncomfortable because I... Okay, I had a big conflict with this scene because I remember Billy Dixon is like a beloved crew member of ours. And it's so much harder to say no to someone who you like and respect than it is to say it to a total stranger who's just coming into direct for 10 days. Um, so Billy wanted to do the sex scene starting on our feet and like our legs rubbing together and like coming up our bodies. And I just really felt like that was way too adult. Also, I had been getting prison mail since I was on MTV. And there was like a couple dudes in particular that were like, I'm going to cut your feet off and put them in my refrigerator. And so I had this weird thing. A couple of, a couple of those. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very specific letters.

And I had a thing about my feet on TV. I would always try to, like, hide my feet because I was just like, I don't want them to think I'm baiting them, you know? It's so scary. And we're kids. And, you know, like, anyway. So I remember being like, please, please, please don't start on this shot. And they're like, we're not going to. And I'm like, please don't.

They're like, we just have to shoot it, but it's going to be blurred. And you guys are like in the blankets and it'll be fuzzy. And when that thing aired on TV and it's. starts on our feet and our legs like grasshopperin together. I'm just like, what the heck is this? That's so frustrating. It's, listen, now we get to watch playback. Back then it was like on film.

And you just had to trust what was going on at the monitor was what you asked for. That's why we didn't trust anybody, for God's sake. Damn it. Of course. That said, that was the longest sex scene in the history of my career. It was hot. It was also, I don't. don't know. It was like, it was really beautiful because you, you'd spent all this tender time with

these two. And they'd spent so much time in bed together, you know, taking it slow and having emotional conversations. The payoff, we were all just like, oh my God, it's like the fireworks finally went off. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. You guys have such great chemistry. We'll say it again and again. And I was just so happy to see. It was really sweet. It was really sweet. And what like a freaking bum out to like finally do the damn thing? Go to a super romantic wedding. Have that go to shit and be like, well, let's go home. And then- At least we're happy. And then Nikki's on the doorstep. Like how bad shit can happen in one day in Tree Hill? What a bomb drop. And by the way, Nikki gets revealed by the baby, mama. I was like, oh, this is.

deep cut that that is a wound just so you know oh yeah the baby baby jenny when they when they get her out of the car yeah they're talking and the baby goes mama and then it cuts and you see nicky in the shadows maybe it glitched i i miss that oh but also another technical error because the way greenberg is holding that baby no one no parent has ever held a baby like forward facing like that to get out of the car and it's just another one of those blocking devices where it's like we need the baby to be able to see Nikki and say mama oh that's so annoying though he totally could have had her over the shoulder and then just turned his head around but then we couldn't have seen him you know like it was bad blocking but yeah babies don't say mama until they're like 17 years old dadda is always

the first word it's so frustrating because you're the one like breastfeeding yeah and you can see it by the way baby jenny is laughing and then the sound is mama and you're Like her mouth didn't make that shape, but I understand that you can't control babies on camera, like you can't control any small living creature on camera. It's a device. I guess we're just going to drop in the sound. Yeah, trauma. It was trauma.

I love the trauma with Deb. You know, we've talked about like in future or in previous episodes, we've been like, when does Bell, Deb become an addict? Like when it's Keith's wedding. This is where it starts. And, yeah. Yeah. Chad did such a good job.

Yeah. Chad did a really good job in that scene because we were all like how audacious for a teenage boy to confront an adult about an addiction issue. Drug use. Oof. Okay. But also, Sophia, I loved your comment about Lucas in the hallway, creepy. Oh, my God. No, you guys, this is a moment where I wish we could talk to Billy Dixon.

Why was he even there? Weird blocking again. You guys. Okay. So what we're referencing is when Barbara, as Deb, is in the kitchen and she takes the bottle of painkillers out of like a, you know, a kitchen cupboard and takes one, the camera moves from her face. Well, yes. But, you know, why is she taking in the middle of the day? Okay. I don't know. But, you know, it moves from her around her face. And you see Lucas peering around the kitchen cabinets. Like he's in some CIA break in. He's leaning on the, He's leaning against the wall, too.

But they made him lean, and then they literally had him just, like, pull backwards along with cabinets till he disappeared, like Homer Simpson disappearing into the bushes, like on the Simpsons. And we were all like, what is that? Sometimes directors tell you to do something that, to Hillary's point, when you see on camera, you just go, God damn it, I shouldn't have listened. Playback. I shouldn't have listened. Oh, God.

Yeah, that whole thing could have handled a lot better. The technicalities of all of it were so strange. But, no, yes, you're right. Like, it was a very ballsy move for Lucas to go call Deb out on it. She handled it well. She did. I actually thought they were both so good in that scene because you could see his discomfort as a young person. Saying this, trying to relate it to his own experience that felt a little scary and her just to be like, oh, just what I need, an adolescent boy.

and her rage and the way she put him in his place telling him, you know, you're a guest in my house, all of this, you saw it fall when she closed the door. Barbara immediately played the shame and the fear about what she was doing. And I just thought it was beautiful. Yeah. I mean, it's both of them said all the right things. You know, he said what you're supposed to say when you see someone who you think might be in peril. and she also said all the things that you say

when a child comes at you and you are a grown-ass woman trying to deal with your... Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I like scenes where both characters are in the right. I do too. And it interestingly, I think,

allowed us to see... You see who's in the right. Even with Karen and Jules, they are both in the right. So many people are both in the right and it allows Dan in this episode to feel even more evil. When Jules isn't coming down the aisle

and Dan Scott is the only person not facing the back of the church, he's watching Keith. Oh, so happy. And then that end scene where he knocks him off the wedding cake and he sets his sights on Deb, it fueled this darkness

that was so, so creepy. Yeah. It was creepy. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first, first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I would like to hear straight from the horse's mouth about the relationship between Keith and Dan and Paul and Craig. And so if any of you are interested in that, we certainly have a super, super special guest today. Oh, my God, I love him. My former early 20s crush. And honestly, still our crush lady.

He is a doll. I love the same. Super babe. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Craig, Jeffer. I think I did it. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Hi.

You look fantastic. Oh, so you guys. Oh, my gosh. Hi. How's it going? Oh, man. Better now. We miss you.

Oh, my God. Look at this. What are you wearing? I love this jacket. What is this red jacket? It's one of my things that I designed. Okay. Oh, my gosh.

Okay, so we have so many places to start. I don't even know where to start. Craig. Wait, Hillary, you gave me a fur with the same buttons. It is one of my prized possessions. I'm going to go disappear right now and come back with my fur. I'm going to be right back. Discuss.

Craig is like the most romantic man on the planet. I'll be right back. She was just saying before you got on, she was like, I've got to go up to the attic and get this gift that Craig got me. It's the best ever. Oh, that is so cute. Oh, my goodness. So, Joy, you're in Los Angeles?

I'm in L.A. right now, yeah. Okay. So, Sophie, where are you again? So I'm based in L.A., but my show that I'm doing right now is shooting in Toronto. So, yeah. Yeah, thank you. And so I'm here for another, I don't know, 10 days and then I'll be home. Oh, my God, please come over.

Can we all just get together? I would love that. I would love that. Are you living in L.A.? Are you kind of back and forth between L.A. and someplace else? No, I was in Pennsylvania for most of the last decade with my family. My mom and my brother passed away. I think I saw you.

No, I might have saw you before that. But yeah. So I moved back here and I got back a week before the pandemic, which was really exciting. Whoa. And so things are just kind of, you know, starting life back in L.A. again. Everything's starting back up again slowly. It feels like during the pandemic, everybody got a hobby. everybody started making bread and, like, doing woodcuts and shit.

But you talking about this amazing jacket that you made, you've been doing this forever. So before we get into Keith, Scott, we got to talk about Craig Schaeffer being a true jack-of-all-trades and a Renaissance man. Renaissance man, I was going to say, yes. Where did making clothes that looked like they walked off a runway? Where does this come from for you? You know, it really started with traveling. I, when I was, when I was young in, you know, like 20s and 30s, I would do a job and I would, you know, take that money and just go somewhere and travel. I think the first one was India.

Yeah, I went to India. I was in India for a long time, for almost six months. And when I was there, it was still like a cowboy town. I mean, it's all, it's all kind of changed. And I was like dirt streets. the town that I was staying was called Mysore. And at that time, it was just like a total coutown. But anyway, they had all these, you know, shops with all these crazy materials, you know.

And I just started going in. I was like, hey, what would it cost to make me a shirt? Oh, $1.50, you know, like, let's do it, baby. Yeah. Yeah. I made like, I made like 100 pieces of clothing and brought them all back. And then I went to South America and I was in Peru. and they had all kinds of cool alpaca stuff.

And I bought a bunch of blankets and made capes. And then I would make stuff for friends and my daughter. And, you know, that's just one of my hobbies. Did you learn how to, do you sew also? You're doing this by hand or your order you design? I am not, I am not tactile. Okay. I like to draw.

That's about the only thing I can do like that. Yeah, I'm not good at that. Believe it or not, I take it to this wonderful lady who works at a laundromat. You know, she hems clothes and all that stuff. But of course, she was trained way, way back and, you know, to make dresses and clothes and all that stuff. So, yeah, I just, I have my own buttons pressed off, these little crosses on them. They're so cool. Like, I want to steal that jacket.

If you send me your, if you send me like a shirt or your size, I'll make you guys all something. Oh, my God. Okay. Native American, Western stuff. That's what I like. Hillary, you've got your thing. I've got my fur on. Craig Sheffer, let it be known.

You gave me my first fur coat ever. I felt so entirely grown up. I have moved 8,000 times in the last 20 years. And this coat comes with me everywhere. For those of you at home who can't see this, Hillary is sporting a below the hip fur jacket with a nice tilted collar and buttons that are made out of brass? It's Craig.

These are the Craig's pressed buttons that he made. It's something, it's not real silver, obviously. You know, it was the loveliest gift ever. And you brought it after we threw a birthday party for your daughter.

Like, how is Willow? Willow's great. Willow's awesome. Yeah, we see each other all the time. She actually is living up in Agura Hills. You remember I lived at Malibu Lake for all those. Yeah, I do.

Your house was so awesome. She's up around there right now. Cool. Yeah, she's awesome. And then, you know, we have an amazing relationship and it's just the best thing, you know. As you guys know now. Well, it's so weird, Craig, because you were like the dad on set. You and Moira had kids, you know?

And then, like, Barbara started bringing her girls around. And it was wild because we looked at you guys as peers. but then you had like children, you know? And so we didn't know who to play with. You were the kid. 100%. It was also so fun. You guys were so nice to well.

She'd come in the trailer and bug use while you were getting your makeup on. She was so cool. She was the coolest kid. It was also so cool for us because, you know, to Hillary's point, like you guys felt like peers, but like the cool older siblings. we'd all always wanted. But then you had these kids who, you know, Willa was this cool young woman.

She was so creative and she wanted to hang out with us. She looked up to us. Oh, yeah. We felt like the babysitters club. We were like, it's happened. Oh, yeah. We are mentors. I don't know.

I think all of you guys were there that night one time. It took her down to somebody's apartment and you guys had a sheet up and played a movie with her while I went down and had dinner with Paul. Oh. that's so cool i remember taking her to the mall who went to the mall with her and me was it you joined i don't know yeah it was me i don't know oh maybe we did can we all go i don't know

listen there's nothing like strolling around the malls um yes please tell her we said hi not for nothing i think a huge part of why we took our roles as mentors in the show because you know we talk a lot on this show about how often we would fight for certain storylines or you know fight for representing young women and having Willow and Barbara's girls around, that was something that really affected us to hold us up to that standard of the

responsibility that we felt, you know, I was so glad that those girls were around. Yeah, we were so lucky. That's inspiring, man. Gotta leave something for the people coming. Yeah. You know, you said something that I wonder, I wonder how the fans at home are taking it, you know, oh, you guys used to watch my daughter when I'd go to dinner with Paul. Oh, yeah.

Is it crazy for fans? Have you experienced that it's wild for them to know that, you know, in real life, Craig and Paul adored each other, whereas on screen, Dan and Keith were like the clashing of the Rams all the time? I know. It is really funny, isn't it? Yeah. I know.

You can't quite picture that, you know, he shot me, and then we went out to dinner. You guys had worked together. before. You did a movie in Romania. We did a really, really bad being. Actually, actually, I saw it for the first time. Somebody made me see it. First of all, I didn't know it was on TV anywhere,

but it's called Oh my God. Berserker? Berserker? Berserker! Yeah. Cool. It was this really bad B-movie we made in South Africa like in 99 or something like that.

And we played these brothers and they had us in like 40 pounds of, you know. Wait, you played brothers in that too? Yes. We played brothers in that. Only I had a brother and he was the good brother. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I was the evil boy. Oh, God.

Had you worked with any of our other castmates before on One Tree Hill? Let's see. Like Barry or Moira? No, I don't think so. what was so listen well some of the people actually Cheryl Lee oh right yeah Cheryl Lee and I did a very uh at the time daring movie it was sexy we're naked for like a third of the movie it's about tantric sex okay oh wow yeah yeah it's very progressive for the time a tarrant stamp Shirley and I uh were in that movie it was actually a I think a pretty

good movie yeah awesome We're going to watch it now, Craig. You set the cue for tonight's meeting. I still had a bod, baby. Okay, okay. What are you talking about? You got it. I think one of our burning questions and Joy, I'm going to ask it for you.

Craig, did you know that Joy was in love with you when we all lived in love with you? Come back next week for part two to find out. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram. at Drama Queens OTH or email us at Drama Queens at IHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could see the smart girl, rough girl fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.