Drama Queens - Tower of Terror ᐧ EP602

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

This episode brought about some similar reactions from all, including everyone agreeing on a romantic pairing that none of them actually wanted to accept. Find out why Hilarie is upset with Peyton while the girls discuss the weight of the episode and how important it is to get storylines right.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

602 you guys we we open season 6 with so much levity everybody's having the best time ever jumping around cactuses and bedrooms and so much joy happiness and then it was a different show for 602 like brook davis what happened to you guys it's really bad it's bad do you guys feel gross? Well, you know what I was going to say? It drives me crazy because they color-timed our show so warm. So, like, all the colors would really, really, you know, saturate warmer. So I remember how good all this prosthetic makeup looked in person. And then on the show, I feel like it looks like they just smashed like cherries and raspberries into my face. Like, everything's magenta. Really? Yeah. Also, the bruises look gnarly. Like, the color of bruises, like, fresh

fresh like that they look really bad so it was good yeah it was it was pretty gross i remember rocky and i are our wonderful makeup artists who did all the special effects stuff going through like books of photos of actual bruises and like injuries oh yeah remember he had that book that was it was he used to take those photos and people would send them to him it was like a literal flip through a picture book yeah and like special effects makeup artists would trade photos and for years after we did this episode anytime I would get hurt or like see someone with a bruise, I'd be like, can I take a picture of that? And I'd text it to Rocky.

Same. I did too. And for like, tell people at home who Rocky was. Like for years, we had two female makeup artists on our show because it was a very chick heavy show. But by season six, we had two male makeup artists. Yeah. We had Tim and Rocky.

Different as night and day. The beauty makeup on this show looked amazing too, by the way, on this episode. It was like, wow. Tim is all over this. You could just see it. I mean, Hillary, your skin was flawless, like all of our, I felt like my skin was glowing, like it never had. Yeah, your eye makeup was tight.

Yeah, those guys were so creative. No, Rocky, since working with us in Tree Hill has gone on to win so many awards. He just did the fall of the House of Usher that everyone's raving about. So cool. He's like, done everything. He's the special, he's the special effects guy. But how he ended up doing beauty makeup on one tree hill was beyond us. Because he's like this dude with a mustache and a shaved head and pretty goths.

And we were all like, I mean, okay. Okay. We were like, hey, dude. Yeah. He's the sweetest, though. He just had such a sweet, like, happy disposition, you know, just like wide-eyed. And so soft-spoken. Yeah.

There's something so charming to me about men that are that physically big, like, that could be intimidating. Yeah. Who come in real gentle and talk to you like this. And you just go, oh, hi. You know things. You know secrets, don't you? Yeah.

It looked so good, though. And I, I don't know. I just, I can't say that I didn't like this episode, but I just had a pit in my stomach the whole time. Yeah. And then it dawned on me that when this originally aired, people had to wait a whole week with this ball of, like, anxiety in their throat.

How, why did we do that to people? That's cruel. Brutal. I don't know. Do you think that's why we like to binge watch shows now, just to calm down? Well, yeah. Who's going to go to work tomorrow after watching this episode and be like, I'm going to have a great week now? No, I'm not okay.

All right, well, let's tell the fans what it is, because we really dove in, y'all. We're talking about episode 602, 1 million billionth of a millisecond on a Sunday morning. the synopsis is that after Lucas and Peyton enjoy planning their dream wedding, Brooke and Peyton Reconnect. Nathan works with Quinn. By the way, it wasn't your dream wedding. You bailed on it, but we'll get there. Look and Peyton reconnect. Nathan works with Quinn on his basketball skills, but Haley is worried for Nathan's well-being and reeling from a threat to her store, Brooke reaches out to an unexpected ally. The punctuation in this synopsis is all over the place. Jamie catches Antwery and Deb kissing. Oh, boy, did I like that part? Yeah. All right, kids, where do we want to

even begin? This was a weird episode because it was so much lightheartedness and then so much really, really, really over-the-top intense drama at the same time. And we were bouncing back and forth. And I don't know if I were a writer in that room, if I would have known how to do any better. but I felt what you were saying, Hillary. I really wanted to like this episode, and I felt like I did, but there was so much back and forth. It was hard for me to stay on top of.

It occurred to me. I remember having a conversation with our boss that he was super into Sons of Anarchy. Like, that's what he felt he should be writing, that kind of content. And I'm watching that kind of, like, darkness sift in to our show. And, I mean, we're all influenced by things that we watch in our free time.

I mean, as actors, we do that in our performances. We're like, oh, that's cool. I want to put that in my bag of tricks. This is another show infiltrating ours. And it's the exact opposite end of the TV spectrum. Right? Like, I'm trying to think, like, what other mashup with one tree hill could have been more awkward? Sons of Anarchy in Tree Hill.

if a motorcycle gang comes through to beat up anyone else do we think that dude was in in the suns? The guy that kills Quentin? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was definitely in a bike gang. Yeah.

Yeah, okay, so maybe I've forgotten or I'm missing it. When Quentin looked up and saw that he was there and said, have a nice night, why was Robbie so, sorry, why was Quentin so freaked out? Like, how did he know?

something bad was happening to him. Because he saw the guy, like, likely dead. There's a bloody body. With his let, like, in the back of the behind the counter. I stepped out of the room for a second. I was finishing up my makeup, and then I walked in. I was like, wait, what? Okay.

So he saw something. He shouldn't have seen. So we're bookended by all this violence. Like, we see Brooke getting beat up again in the recap, and then we've got violence again at the end, and it does make it hard to enjoy the middle of the sandwich. But what were our favorite parts of this Tree Hill sandwich? Like you said the Jamie, the Jamie catching skills and Deb at the top of the episode. Brilliant.

So good. So fun. Do people just kiss all the time? I loved it. Just cringing, watching her tell him his reality is not real. No, that is not what you saw. It's absolutely not true. He's like, because I think it'd be great.

Oh, well, okay. Well, I guess it's all right then. Yeah. There's so many like bait and switches with skills in this episode where he thinks Haley's on to him in the beginning where she's like, I know why you're here. And Antoine has such an earnest look on his face. His performance in this episode was so great because he's funny, but there's a there's a puppy dog quality to Antoine's eyes when they go real soft. And you're like, oh, he wants Haley to know. Like he wants to be found out so that the secret can be enjoyed and just like great like we're together we're a real couple not a sneaky couple anymore i love that that um antoine is so he was so earnest and it felt like he wasn't playing for the camera those moments of comedy when it's real and it's not but um like set up set up joke he's just completely in his body and just one little look cracked me up yeah yeah it was also just just

so much fun to see over and over again that that sort of moment you know the inhale when you wonder if you're caught and it's nice to see antoine having that again and again with you and with nathan and like it just keeps coming and it's so i don't know the payoff feels bigger because it it ties through the whole episode sometimes on shows where we have this many cast members people get one scene to process something. And I love that they're really making a meal of this for Antoine and Barbara because the material's just so good and they really are just so, like you said, Joy, they're in their bodies, they're present, they're funny. And it is a delight to watch. Well, him in the stands with Nathan, you know, like Haley's almost found him out. And then

talk about breakfast, like breakfast. Come on. Who's talking about breakfast? And then, you know, Nathan is all like, dude, are you sneaking around with some hot chick that you're not telling us about? It's like, oh, God, somebody just say it. And the child knows. The child knows. The child knows. And he's taunting uncle skills. God bless.

And later in the episode, when that Deb's like, I've been having sex. And then Haley's like, she's been having sex on Nathan's face. Oh, gross. Mom. hilarious. I can't wait for this payoff. I'm really excited. And I do agree that they're,

I like that they're drawing it out. Yeah, that was one of my favorites. I loved, I loved also Barbara and Brooke. Sorry, Deb and Brooke. I loved the, just sort of the unlikely partnership of, and Brooke needing a mom in that moment. Oh, yeah. And Deb showing up to be a mom.

It felt like it could not have been more perfect relationally. That's exactly what she needed. Baby, you had to go so dark in this storyline. And, you know, you're not funny at all, which is, you know, that was how Brooke came in. I'm the comedic relief, you know. What did you have to do for this? Because obviously you're looking at like bruise books of other battered women with Rocky. Yeah.

You know, what was the process? It, you know, it's really interesting and, God, it feels so heavy. to look back at. You know, we've, we've all talked about this, how our characters did so many adult things at such young ages that we had to guess. You know, Joy, I remember you talking about that when Haley and Nathan have Jamie and being like, I don't know what it's like to have a kid. You know, it's interesting to look at this as women who are 40, having had versions of experiences with violence, I just hadn't had that at this age yet. And so it was a strange thing of having to try to find material to watch.

Like to, I remember watching like old episodes of intervention and listening to people who were talking about addiction, talking about how that was a byproduct of violence, finding articles to read and, you know, sources of, of, people's real experience. And it did. It felt so heavy to kind of hold all these stories I'd collected for this episode that I think you can, at least looking at it, I sort of feel that transference. Like, I know there's something real behind this, even though at the time I felt like it was other people's stories I was telling. And it's strange. It's like even listening to myself talk. I'm like, oh my God, I sound different. Like the heaviness of it feels like it like

weighed down on my, on my voice. It's bizarre how that stuff can kind of get in you, I think. I could feel like the pressure on you in this, because at this point, we'd already done all the psychoderic stuff, and we had already had fans approach us on the street and say, I've been assaulted in real life and watching you guys do this is helping me process. like what happened in my life. And so it's one thing when you shoot that and you don't have that fan response in your head. Yeah, you don't know what's coming.

I'm just telling a story. But once that gets in your head and you're like, no, I'm telling someone at home's story. And if I fuck it up, like it's going to hurt their healing process. And so I just feel like all the distance and weight and responsibility on you in this episode. because it's uncomfortable. It was just fucking uncomfortable to watch

because it felt real. And like, I don't like the distance between Peyton and Brooke. That made me uncomfortable. Yeah, not used to seeing Brooke in that space at all. No, and that awkwardness between us when you come home and you have all this happiness. And I have to cover.

It is. It's so uncomfortable. Was it hard for you to come out of that at the end of the day? Yeah, this, I just remember how dark this whole period felt. And I will say one of the things that was really helpful was having the process of getting out of the prosthetics at the end of the night. Because it takes a long time. They have to put solution on and they have to start dissolving and, you know, they're sealed into your skin. So like the removal process took over an hour. And so there was

something that I had to learn to do mentally where like literally watching Rocky take all that stuff off my face and participating in the removal of it had to be like I have to take this off and leave it here. I have to try to leave this at work. But it does, you know, it's the weird part of our jobs, I think. It gets in your body. And when you start to learn about, you know, somatic work and you go through a version of this and you do research and work on trauma, like, you understand that even if something happens to your physical body. If you get tackled by a man? Yeah, like it happens to your brain.

Yeah. And so what we do, even though it's quote unquote pretend, leaves like real scars. And it's wild, you know, when you think about it, nobody talked to us about this stuff back then. Cheryl Lee Cheryl Lee told me back then and I didn't know what the hell she was saying because we were doing so much crying and she was

so clear she was like it's not real but your body thinks it's real okay so your brain is like okay it was just my job fine it's stuck in you and I was just like what is she talking about but now we know

because we've got all these books and podcasts and things to help us now. I did a pilot and there was a sequence where in the show, it was a sequence where you showed my character and she was coming home with a different guy every few nights. She was just having fun living in the city. But we had to shoot all of those sequences in the same day. And so I spent six, seven hours in a day doing all this kind of intense sexual sex, off with all like up against a window with no shirt laying in bed rolling around um pretending like I'm screened some guy in a staircase it was all of these moments one after another with all these

different guys and I was just thinking like yeah whatever it'll be a day it's going to be like hey maybe it'll be fun you know and I got home and my uh my boyfriend was like wanted to cuddle I was like you cannot touch me I feel so this is so unnatural for me and I just I had to I got in the shower. I was like, I had to cry to cry it out. I was like, don't touch me for like a day. I just need, it's weird. And I just thought, oh, it'll be nothing.

We're just acting. And it should be, it shouldn't be a thing, you know. But it's weird. It gets in your body. It really does. Maybe it just gets in our head because it's the idea that it could happen, right? It's like, this person picked me up and vaulted me. And I didn't know that I could be.

vaulted. And clearly I can. Like, I did Secret Life of Bees where Paul Bettney beats the shit out of me in front of, it was Barbara Allenwood's daughter. It was her daughter who was playing Little Dakota Fanning hiding in the closet. Was she there for that? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Because you see through us to her in the closet. And so they had two different little girls playing the little girl in the closet. And so it was Barbara's daughter for half the time. And that's a child that knows me watching me get hurt and it's all pretend but it didn't feel pretend because it felt like I have to go protect this little girl from this you know this reality that we don't want her to think could ever happen you know like it was just so it's such a weird dumb job it sounds stupid to

complain about it because it's our job right but it also just kind of messes with your reality and the reality of brook in this is just like I I feel like Deb in this, where I'm sick to my stomach. And I'm like, kid, whatever you want, you want a gun, we'll get you. Like, whatever you want, I will get for you in this moment. I think it's interesting, though. Like, I get your, I get the instinct to be like, it sounds so silly. It's our job.

Why would we complain about it? But I do think we just happen to be in a moment in, in like, the learning of what it is to be human. it's different now than it was 10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago. We know more about what happens to your body, what happens to your brain, what imprints on you. And I do think, I think it's part of the reason that we're having these sort of reckonings in our industry and in so many industries and people are like, wait a second, what is required to do a job? What are our boundaries here? Yeah. And also, how would we do it differently? Like, I think about this a lot. And I I'm like, you know, if we were in charge of a bunch of 20-year-olds on a show like

hours, I'd want to make sure we had therapists on set during episodes like this. I'd want to make sure, you know, people were like doing some sort of a stretch class on their lunch break, like to get this stuff out of their bodies. But nobody taught us that then. No, we didn't know what to ask for. Artists are just supposed to shut up and suffer. Well, and then you go, maybe this is the reason that everybody. Everybody winds up with, like, substance abuse problems.

Yeah. Like, oh. Everyone's drinking so hard. Yeah. So that means be gentle to teen drama actors, you guys. You know, just be nice to each other. Be kind to that. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to be. become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native Comic-Con or the importance of

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and I remember it being important to you that Brooke looked terrible and not sexy Yes Like there's a trend in some TV shows Where it's like I got punched But it's a sexy punch that split my lips So I've got a pout Yeah

No sexy bruises here These were gross Yeah it was upsetting I even I didn't love You know there's like a scene Where I'm in like boy shorts And a tank top

and you see all the bruises on the arms and legs and stuff in bed in the morning. And I didn't want to do that. I was like, I don't think we need, I don't want her to be in like cute little pajamas. But they were like, well, we got to see the bruises. So like, do you want to be in small pajamas in bed or do you want us to like shoot a scene of you in the shower? And I was like, well, that's off the fucking table. So I guess it'll be pajamas in the bed. Yeah, but they could have had you laying in bed with sweatpants that were pulled at like one leg was up.

because you were sleeping and as you pull the sweatpants down you see all the bruises on your leg like there's ways to get around that but i was less offended by you being in bed in your underwear because it meant that you were just like locked in your space and you knew that you weren't coming out and no one else was coming in then i was the first scene where we saw you in this episode where you're in a silky blouse and a mini skirt like brook davis like got dressed in the day after getting beat up i well it's those are the clothes i got beat up in they are Yeah, that was the outfit I was in at Closover Bros, and I'm like, wouldn't the first thing you'd do when you come home be to get out of these clothes? Yeah, sweatpants, like, hide yourself.

That shirt was like ripped and, yeah, I just, I was like, Brooke Davis needs to be in, like, the biggest t-shirt ever. Yeah. Also, I'm very angry with Peyton Sawyer this episode because she comes in the house. I'm furious with Peyton Sawyer. She comes in the house and gets that dumb story about Brooke falling down the stairs and Brooke has clear handprints on her neck. Yeah. That's bad friend zone, man. Yeah, Peyton's on Cloud 9.

She just can't see it. She's got love goggles on. They're like beer goggles, only the red ones. Yeah. What's that handprint on your neck? Is that where you grabbed yourself when you were falling down the stars? So stupid. That's how you kept yourself from breaking your neck.

You're so smart. Yeah, just. I have a question though. Do we think that Brooke knew? I mean, the fact that her designs were stolen, did you decide that you knew ahead of time, like right away that this was something Victoria had set up? Or like, why else would your designs be stolen right in the moment when she had been threatening that? Exactly. And that's the idea, right? Is that she thinks that at least I remember the sort of like character motivation for me in that scene with Deb, when she is being maternal, you know, you have these two sort of broken women who don't know how to do this, when Deb is like, we've got to call the cops, honey. That's why Brooke says no. Yeah. Because to her, she's thinking, my mom hired someone to come in and steal for me and I was here late and I got my ass beat and I'm not going to let her win. Like, I'm not going to cause this PR nightmare for myself and then have everyone find out my own mom did this to me.

So she knows. So she knows. Yeah, that's what she thinks anyway. It adds, I think, to a layer of that, like, detachment. Because for her, she's thinking, like, truly the thing my mom cares most about is the business and the money. Yeah. And it adds, I think, to that darkness. And it's interesting that Deb, you know, Deb doesn't see it.

She would never think that. Peyton doesn't think anything's wrong. I wouldn't brook tell her. So this sort of covering that she's doing, I think, added some of that heaviness you were talking about help. Well, speaking of fucking goggles, where is everyone in the town? Closeover bros is made entirely of windows and everyone's walking by this mess and no one's like, problem here.

In the heart of downtown. And everyone's like, derp-tur-tur-dur-dur-dur-dur-dur-d-dur-d-d-dur-d-d-d- and it's so obvious that Peyton's not going to know within, and everybody had the way that news and in Tree Hill travels so fast to everybody all over. The fact that Payton doesn't know already, hasn't heard, and that Brooks trying to keep it from her. Yeah, the fact that no one knows this, it's so bizarre. You guys, there was a restaurant in Wilmington that got busted up.

I was about, I knew it. So they smashed the plate glass window in the front of the restaurant, and then they broke in and they busted up the entire wine collection in this restaurant. Oh, yeah. You guys, we knew about it within 45 minutes of that happening. The entire town knew because you walked by it.

You drove past, you know, like it was in a hustle and bustle area. And so the idea that everyone just walking past that mess and close over grows. There's not enough shot. Like, nobody's coming in to shop. The door is open. She left it unlocked because Deb walks right in. Yeah. It's so weird.

It's so weird. I did I did love though to continue on with Peyton I do love seeing Peyton happy it's nice and after after everything but it doesn't it make you feel a little sad because she's just so eager like it's the most eager baby energy of just like he finally loves me he finally loves me

let's do it right now I love it she's like I'm not going to say no to anything you want me to move in? Cool. You want to get married somewhere else? That's cool too. You like sandwiches?

I like sandwiches too. Like, it is such strong yes man energy. Which like, I love it. Fine. I'm totally okay with it, especially for a young person

that's been dealt such a shan. You know what's killing me as you say this is I'm realizing it's runaway bride in reverse. She's always been to run and run and run and run and now she's like

whatever kind of eggs you want. I like those two. Let's go. Yeah. strong yes man energy which is but I'm a little like I was so it's strange for me to adjust to to Peyton and Lucas finally being together actually as I'm watching it I'm like it's hard for me to believe that it's real and it's finally happening I'm so used to

him you know digging around with other people like it out well and that they're actually like gonna live together and it never occurred to me that they never had like them being in this hotel room is the first time they're like living together and just spending all day together because she left right after high school. So that was weird. But lesson here is when you finally get the thing that you wanted and have fun, man. If he wants to jump on the bed, jump on the bed. Jump on the bed. Great shot with those cactuses behind you. I really loved that choice. of art. I don't know why. I just thought it looked so great. We were jumping on that bed for seven hours in the duration of this episode because

we're jumping on the bed and then you guys go to school and then there's basketball practice and then some other shit happens. And it's the end of the school day. And you're still jumping on the bed. Yeah, man. This is how I paid my mortgage jumping on the bed. I'm not unhappy with it. Jamie. It was cute though, the back and forth between you guys and Jamie jumping on the bed. It was very sweet. Well, and then you delivering, like, the Moira line. Like, Haley was also a really good place in this episode.

She was very Karen in this episode, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, which just made it that much, like, weirder that everyone else was in the throes of terror. Dan included. Haley and Peyton are just like, do do, do, do, do, do, to do. Tree Hills, awesome. That's what I think is so. the episode gives me a little bit of whiplash

because I am enjoying watching you guys so much I am loving the Jamie and Quentin storyline I love learning more about Quentin the fact that he wants to be a dad he has a little brother Robbie is just God he's so alive and beautiful and then you've got Brooke and Dan in like the seventh circle of hell

and I'm just like shouldn't we have maybe done a two-parter for this? Should they have been split maybe. Yeah. It's like the cockroaches. Oh, God.

It's just a lot. Like, am I supposed to laugh? Am I supposed to cry? Am I supposed to cringe? I don't know, man. How am I supposed to feel right now? Although I did really, really, really love Dan finally speaking and telling her her plan sucks and then laughing at her. Yeah.

I was kind of great. It was really great. Her realizing what the beepers for was great. But yeah. it just you couldn't settle in either the joy or the fear for long enough so it it was really it was like getting rattled around yeah yeah i wanted a roller coaster of like ups and downs that were a little bit smooth and flowed together and instead we just had like elevator drops like tower of terror there's the name of this episode tower of terror yeah the the nanny carry stuff felt to me like we just really loved Tori and wanted to keep Tori around at any cost because it is so unhinged and I'm confused still while why Dan couldn't talk for like a long time and it's just kind of like Frankenstein's monster like but then once he starts talking

it's like he doesn't stop yeah yeah he's just really on a roll what is the physical injury that kept him from talking i don't i guess just being hit by a car he had some i remember her saying like oh you can't talk like you know something about your neck from that hit like remember it was like a really weird line of exposition was like sh don't try and talk you can't you won't be able to you're yeah yeah yeah yeah i wonder if pa did paul have like a did he did he have laryngey or something like why wouldn't I guess maybe they could have just written it in I just assumed that maybe he couldn't speak for some reason I think they just wrote it in because they wanted this sort of payoff but to it's one of those things where as an actor like you read that and you go off

because they go you can't talk because you have a crush injury to your neck from the from getting run over and you're like do I because my neck looks the same because I didn't actually get run over and people are going to watch this and think I look like an idiot And like I It's like I could see And there's Paul He does He commits to the bit

And he did it so well And he played it so hard And then when he finally speaks Like his voice is coming back He's so committed And he's so good And as a viewer You're like

His neck looks the same As it did When he was like out Working out in season five When he was healthy He's just fine He's fine But you have to suspend

The disbelief The thing that broke the dam For Dan Scott was when she's like lording over him and she says something about like too bad you're not young and hot and the look on paul's face was like we both know that's not true like he looked at her like we know he's great at just face acting now i know you're full of shit yeah because i'm so good looking he's so good looking yes the look on his face when she threw the beeper against the wall, though. That really got me.

Yeah. The realization that, oh, now I actually can't even get my heart transplant if I needed to because I won't know. And it was a split second. It happened so fast. Just, he's always finding the little nuggets everywhere. Also, why did Tori and I have the exact same haircut and color? Yeah. That was kind of funny. Well, maybe she did that on purpose to try and lure Jamie. She was trying to seduce your husband. Yeah. Yeah. Single white female. Um, Yeah, the Dan stuff, we see that he like slips his hand through that little brace so we know that he's going to plot and escape soon. There was a ray of sunshine. Is the ray of sunshine in this whole episode that Dan Scott, our bad guy for the last five?

He's going to get away. He's going to escape from a worst bad guy? Christ. We have sunk solo. We sure have. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner. in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con

or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Antoine and Deb's moment. Yes, their first real conversation.

Yeah. Loved it. That was Silver Lion. That was so Antoine, too. That's the kind of advice he would actually give. He's really good like that. Yeah. And it is such a nice thing to hear out loud.

Because we are a show that talks about feelings a lot. And friends rely on each other a lot. but to actually have someone voice she called you for a reason she respects you she probably thinks you're the one person who understands what she's going through yeah i can't explain why that made me so emotional but i was like oh my god that is why people call you and ask for your help because you really have trust like it made me feel so emo it was the respect line that got me because the same thing got me because deb has been shone by everybody She's been shied on by her husband, by her son.

Haley's shit on her and told her how irresponsible she is. She's been shied on by Karen, her business partner. She knows that she has had lows. And she has not made excuses. She's just tried to show up in a different way. And this is the first moment that anyone is saying to her, I respect you and what you've been through. Oh, it's such a great point.

I love that you saw that. Yes. It's the actions. You know, like there's plenty of characters in our show that say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. And then they do the same shit over and over again. Deb did a lot of awful stuff. And she just changed.

It was her actions that said, I'm sorry. It was her actions that said, you deserve better. I'm going to be different for you. And so now she's the lady that shows up and makes breakfast for her grandson. Yeah. Great. Drives him to school. I love that.

I'm trying to find it within me to feel like it's weird that Deb would be dating skills, but I have to say, like, it really works for me. Did we think it was weird when we were in our 20s? Because now in our 40s, like, we're, Deb's exact age, right? Yeah. Now I don't think it's weird at all. Now I think it's like, get it. But did we think it was weird at that age?

I think we thought it was scandalous, but I think I even liked it back then. And it was just such a good match. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I don't remember having a problem with it. I just thought it was funny. And now I don't think it's funny. Now I think it's hot. And also we knew that like two people we loved very much behind the scenes,

Antoine and Barbara, were having a great time. Like that made it fun for everybody. Yeah. Yeah, those were always fun days at work. they were a freaking hoot well the next heart to heart the Brooke and Peyton heart to heart

I'm still mad that Brooke is laying there in Peyton's lap and she's still not seeing the handprints on her friend's neck so dumb but this conversation where Brooke is just really like I don't believe

in karma that whole thing I don't know like I like I like this conversation. They're actually talking about something real. And it just made me mad that Peyton got up and moved the next day. Like, your friend is clearly laying in your lap being like, I'm in a bad place. Yeah. It is uncharacteristic of Peyton. It is. It all feels a little forced. But I will say, I think Brooke is isolating so intensely. Like, in a way, I feel like she was kind of pushing you out.

Sure, but your job as the friend is to be like, not so fast. Yeah. I see what you're doing here, especially for Peyton, who's been through so much trauma and, like, knows that bag of tricks. Yeah, that's a good point. If anyone was going to recognize signs, it should be Peyton. Yeah. What was the gist of that dialogue that you guys were taught?

Like, I remember seeing the scene, but I don't know. Payton is thanking Brooke She's like Brooke I just want to thank you Like Peyton's in a good place And she's like You gave me a place to live You help me with this record label

You are my person Like thank you so much Brooke keeps like making jokes Like she made the Lindsay joke Earlier in the episode Like blaming her injuries On a fist fight with Lindsay She just keeps deflecting

In a way that should be A big huge red flag Yeah, the heaviness that's on her, definitely something that feels like it should be acknowledged. Yeah, the glossing over it definitely feels like a weird writer choice. And I remember that we didn't love it at the time. But, you know, you have to shoot what's on the page. But I think it's interesting because, you know, when you're going through all the thank yous, in that sort of odd heaviness, you offer that.

you are a really good person, Brooke Davis, line. And Joy, Brooks, you know, my Brooks response is, well, what do I get out of it? You know, and that's when we get into the whole thing about good karma, and I don't believe in karma, and I don't want to talk about it. And then we hit that, you know, what do you believe in? Justice. Which I was like, oh, that was interesting foreshadowing for my own life, L.O.L. same and it's it does it does sort of cause this like sense of foreboding you know something's coming and it is an odd thing i would imagine you know for you hill as as the other actor in

the scene to just have to pretend that you don't feel it right just like yeah makes you feel stupid. You know, like, oh, my friend's being incredibly cryptic and her face is destroyed. Anyway, I'm getting married. Oh, mighty. That said, I appreciate the physicality in the scene because that was doing the work that the words weren't. Like, when you see two people laying together and playing with each other's hair, that is a form of intimacy, that's a sisterhood, that is just, a deep relationship that words can't necessarily convey. And so I do remember you and I being like, how do we make this loving? Because it feels very disconnected. Yeah. I thought, yeah, I think that helps. I mean, Brooke's trying to be there for Peyton, too, and be supportive and be,

you know, happy for her and give her what she needs so that she can keep deflecting the attention off of herself. Well, because Haley delivers the line and the scene right before, like only miserable people destroy someone else's happiness or something like that. What was that? Oh, it was the only people that tear happy people down are unhappy. Are unhappy people. And Brooke is not going to do that. Nope. She shan't stoop. She won't do it. But what a weird thing for Haley to have to say. You delivered it great. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I guess it's true. But they always script it. You know, it's so funny. whenever these scripts would come in.

And sometimes you get these lines that were just so these pragmatisms. No, what are they called platitudes? They would put the platitudes in and you just have to find a way to make it real. We're just going to put in some of the themes from this episode or some of the personal beliefs of the writers and sell it.

Yeah. Yeah, somebody's like relaying a messeteer or it would just be such an unnatural line and you'd want to change it. And they're like, I'm so sorry. We already shot the previous scene where we echo those words again. And so you just have to suck it up. Oh, I hate that.

I hate when that happens. I wanted to go first. The one thing that felt very real was all the Haley Nathan stuff. Like Nathan working his ass off and trying to make a comeback and this whole like doctor situation between you two. Like all that felt really dialed in. Yeah, I loved that. I like seeing them in a position where they're comfortable and in. enjoying each other and enjoying this space where they're being mentors and things finally feel

settled. They've got a system working so that they can both go to work. They can both feel like they can both be involved with Jamie's life and also find personal fulfillment. It's a really nice little system that they've got going on. But of course, no one in Tree Hill can remain happy for long so there's always going to be new things but yeah I agree it's it's really nice to see that and I love I just loved seeing Nathan get back on the basketball court and going for it again and just having fun and watching all those guys play play ball I really love it whenever that's a part of our show because it really was the core of how the show started was just watching the interactions the communication that interpersonal dynamics are happening on the court as a reflection of what's

happening in real life. And you could see it all play out. And we did get away from basketball for a while. So it's nice to, it's always nice when they bring it back in. I love it. And James seems so happy out there. Like James, the person that we know, just lights up in a different way. And playing with Robbie, too, though, because the two and them had so much fun together. Robbie was always so fun to work with and had so much energy. what you see on the show is very much who he is in person. Well, and I think also just on a technical level, the fact that he was such a good basketball player, like James played circles around everyone for years.

Yeah. And so to have someone he could really ball with, like you can see how challenged they both are. And like they're really sweating out on that court. They're really playing. Yeah, they really got to play. and having Jackson in on that mix and like that whole dynamic was just so sweet and it made things feel so real even when you cut to you know your house and Jamie's walking on Nathan's back like people were you know at that point like begging Jackson to do that for them because

everybody is playing so much basketball so like it wound up in the script and yeah like it all just I don't know it felt it felt so grounded in something real and genuine. And I think it really comes through on screen in their dynamic. Why did we kill Quentin off so soon? Such a

poor decision. Did he get another job? Do we know what happened there? We're going to have to ask Robbie. We will. I think it was just the plan. And I think because it happened. But that's the thing. I think because it happened so soon. in the season. Like we shot it before season six started airing. And I think everyone unanimously was

like, oh, we've done a bad thing. Like we did this too quickly. I think it was really in the outline of the season and what that death was going to mean and what it was going to do to everyone. They totally miscalculated how much people were going to fall in love with him, how charismatic he was, how powerful his arc was, going from where he started into the place that he was even in this episode. You're just rooting for him so much. It's just, I don't know, he's had so much more. I feel like he had so many more levels of us cheering for him to go to before they could rip the rug out from under us and have us be devastated. Like, it was devastating now, but they could have, they could have milked that for a lot longer. Yeah. Yeah, Robbie could have

stayed on the show. It comes down to representation in the room, right? Because if we finally have a young, black man who is succeeding on the show and to shoot that guy, you know, it just felt like a tone-deaf white man's decision. Yeah. And had we had some representation in the room, there could have been a voice in there that said, this is an important character to a number of kids who are watching this show, and they should see black joy. They should see, like, you know, black success because we are not showing all.

lot of that on our show. Our show has been criticized for its lack of diversity. And this was an opportunity that could have been golden. And I think Robbie did a beautiful job leading up into this narrative tragedy. But I do think we did a disservice to our audience by killing him. And that could just be me talking because I think he was a wonderful actor. But yeah, I think we could have done better. Every black man we have on the show got put through hell. Antoine had to beg to be a series regular, right? Ernest Waddell, we've had him

on the show and he talked about what a bad experience it was for him. And so that we lost Robbie also feels like another cheat. So when you hear people talking about representation and writers' rooms, it's exactly for things like this. Yeah, that's right. It's such a shame.

Ugh. And I'm glad there's been a lot of change since them. I feel like there's, it's been so much improvement, but it's really sad to go back and watch our show and see things like that, that it just wasn't, it wasn't in the place it should have been. It's frustrating. No, I mean, and for Haley, it's the first time we're seeing Haley really teach. Christ. Yeah. He just gets an A plus. Come on. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to see that. I feel like Debbie Downer for bringing it up, but I had to say it. No, it's really important. Yeah, it affects the rest of, yeah, it just felt like they didn't know what else to do.

So they just, I mean, we really have hit the point in the show where I feel like they just didn't quite know what else to do. And so they just started creating all these random scenarios. They're sort of punching people. I don't know what to do with this character. We should tie them up. We should hurt him. Who feed him cockroaches? Like, really?

That's it. Oh, boy. Oh, God. when Lucas tells Skills that Peyton is moving in and Skills is like, do we want to have a drink or should I wait until you propose to Brooke? And then Jamie does the same shit to him. He's like, so Peyton's moving in?

What happened to Lindsay? Were you in love with my mom? What about Aunt Brooke? You know, like, I just need to understand this right now. Yeah, everyone's on Lucas's shit this episode. It actually is really fun listening to. to, from a child's perspective, like, okay, wait, so you guys were together, but then you broke up, but then you went with her, but then she went with this guy and now you're with this person.

And what about that relationship? Just the simplicity of the way that a child would come in and look at the dynamic, the romantic dynamics on our show is really funny. And judge us. Yeah. You're like, what were you doing? Okay, so what are our honorable mentions? I know what mine is. And it's a Nathan Haley thing.

Okay. And I wrote it down where Nathan and Haley are at the River Court and they're talking about that Masonboro game where he kicked ass and he's like every shot I scored was like a pickup line for Haley James. Yeah. And he says, I played that game for you, Haley. And I would also like quit that game for you because I like being a husband and a dad so much more. I was just like, yes, sir.

That was Haley. There is. I had a flag in that scene when we were watching because she says the first time I ever saw you play was that game. And I'm like, what? They grew up in the same town. Lucas and Pahili have been best friends. How in the world is that the first basketball game she's ever seen Nathan play? I'm surprised that nobody caught that. Yeah, I mean, I guess not everybody went to basketball games. I'm trying to think. Wasn't that like a big deal that no one ever, that you guys never went? Because Lucas didn't play and then once he got on the team, no? I don't know. I don't know.

It just rang in my ear. I heard it and I was like, wait. I don't know. I can be wrong. Did it make you feel the same way it made you feel that no one checked on close over bros when the store had been decimated in the middle of downtown? Yeah. Like, what are these tree hillers doing?

What are they doing? That feels phagy. Deb gets my honorable mention. I thought she just totally shined. Shown? I don't know. She was fabulous. Yeah.

I, mine is for Robbie. Yeah. I just, I loved it. Every single thing he did in this episode, I loved so much. And obviously, I knew what was coming this season. I didn't realize it was in the second. freaking episode. Yeah.

And when he, when he parked his car at that gas station, I screamed, no! Like at the TV! And I was like, oh boy, that was a lot.

That was a lot that just came out of my body. Yeah. He really just affected me so much. And I, I'm still sad about it. Oh, yeah, me too. It's awful.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her.

story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a cynicism? Mr. Conspiracy.

Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, guys, Patricia is asking us, did any of your parents try to discourage you from getting into acting? Yeah.

Did you ask? Of course. Well, your parents knew about it. Like, your parents lived in L.A. They knew what that life was like. I don't know if, Hillary, if you and I parents actually knew what that really entailed. My parents put me into classes when I was three years old. I got put in these little modeling actor classes. a toddler. And I was told my whole life that they did all this and made all these sacrifices

because I announced at two and three years old that I wanted to be an actor. And then when I had kids and these kids both have actors as parents, they had no fucking idea at two and three years old what an actor was. So I was sold a bag of false information. No, it was my parents' whole plan. Wow. Which is probably why I having this late in life rebellion where I'm like, I'm not going to do it anymore. Yeah, I think kids should arrive at this shit on their own. Yeah. So your parents did?

They were like, don't do it. Well, the thing is, like, we didn't have, like, any actors in our family, like, any attachment. But, you know, with my dad's photography business, like, it's a weird thing to be adjacent to an industry right like my my dad is certainly a visionary he is certainly an artist and to be clear like when you're the photographer like you're also the hired help like you're not the in in the scenario where like we all know how hierarchies can go on sets like you're not the talent like you're the person capturing the talent and so it's a really interesting thing like to sort of of see both sides of something, like to be close to it, but but to still be in the like employee

zone. Like, you know, when people talk about what we do and they're like, well, below the line, like the crew, whatever, all of which we like to set fire to. But I think what was interesting for my parents was like just sort of seeing the churn in the business. And especially because a photography like I think the way that so many women like can be treated or used by the business my parents were just like oh absolutely not and I you know I also grew up like my dad immigrated here in the 70s my mom's mom came through New York like on a boat from Italy there's like classic immigrant mentality in my house of like you can be a doctor or a lawyer or a lawyer or a doctor.

Like, those are your options. And I was like, well, I'm going to be a doctor. And my parents were like, you are very argumentative about social justice. Are you sure you don't want to be a lawyer? Yeah. And then, like, I did a play and was like, I think I want to go to theater school. And my parents were just like, what the fuck? No.

That's not like a real thing. And, yeah, they had like talks about it. My freshman year in college and they were just, apparently my dad was like, oh, Maureen, calm down. She's too smart. She'll be bored. She'll grow out of it. She'll grow out of it. Little did they know how smart you have to be to be an actor and to be as good as good as you are. You have to be really smart. Little did they know. And then when I transferred and decided to do like theater and journalism, they were like, see, she's going to get a real job. And then I just became an activist actor. And here we are. And here we are. The real job's working out real well.

Sorry, Mom. But Joy, you were like actually working, working, working. like from a young age. I was. So we did have performance in my family. You know, my grandfather was on Broadway and he was a stage manager and also an actor on Broadway. My grandmother grew up doing theater and did tons and tons of shows. My mom's mom's mom, like my great grandma left home at 19 to join the circus.

That's fun. Literally. So we do have all this family history in art and entertainment. it skipped a generation with my folks they both were like not interested at all in being on stage or having any attention yeah but your dad does the same thing like as actors we diagnose like people's trauma and that's like your dad does that he helps with addiction he does yeah he he helps with drug and alcohol rehabilitation and also has been a a counselor and worked in a lot of mental health facilities um yeah i mean i kind of had a wild childhood just experiencing so many different kinds of personalities and lives, just all the ways, all the ways people lived in so many different environments, which definitely fueled the fire and being an actor because I was just so interested in people and all the quirks and the ways that people ticked and worked. I saw so much variety because we moved around a lot too, so I wasn't even stuck in a bubble. It was really great. But, sorry, tangent, but yeah,

I think when I started, it really was just a hobby. Something my parents were like, there's a little theater school on the corner. Do you want to go do this since you don't really seem to care about sports? Soccer. You want to do something? Yeah, and then I just fell in love with it. And I don't think they knew enough to tell me, please don't do this with your life. It's just so hard.

And thank God they didn't because it's been amazing. And it became a place I really loved. But no, they didn't try and discourage me. They were happy to help and support. And my mother, God bless her, when we moved to New Jersey, she drove me in and out of the city, you know, four or five days a week for voice lessons, dance classes, auditions, whatever it was. She just got a job that got her off at like two, and she could just drive me into the city all the time.

So they really made a lot of sacrifices to make it work. I'm glad it did. So cool. Yeah, thank you, Patricia. All right, guys, are we going to spin a wheel? Let's spin a wheel, ladies. All right, we've got a most likely to have their own reality show. Who in Tree Hill has a reality show?

Is this a Dan Scott? Dan Scott, yeah, too. I could see that. Was his a reality show or a talk show? He had a talk show. All right, so who's got a reality show? Deb? Honestly, I think Deb could start the Real Housewives of Tree Hill,

and I would watch, and I don't watch any of those shows, but I'd watch her. I'm on board for that. And also, in real life, I would watch a show about Barbara and her daughters. Oh, my gosh. Why is that not on the air right now? No, but legitimately, someone needs to buy and sell and buy that. They're such fantastic kids.

And they all have very different careers. Can you imagine a family of four blondes where each one of them has such a distinct, like, niche? And they're all so different, but they all are still like Halloween freaks. They just had their pumpkin coffee party. I wish I'd been able to go to that party. God, they're so cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's the show.

That's it. Well, thanks for hanging out, everybody. We'll see you next week, episode three of season six. Get Cape, wear Cape, fly. See ya Hey, thanks for listening Don't forget to leave us a review You can also follow us on Instagram

At Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama queens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. We're all about that high school Drama Girl, Drama Girl, all about them high school queens We'll take you for a ride

And our comic girl Chearing for the right team Drama Queens Dreamers, Smart Girl, Rough Girl, fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is nicole garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture somewhere along the way it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop that's dr lee francis the fourth who opened the

first native comic bookshop explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.