Drama Queens - Turtlenecks • EP111

Episode Date: September 6, 2021

There are so many questions and the Drama Queens have all the answers.Why did Peyton have so many dads?  Who's on team Nathan?What makes Jake so hot?Haley has another questionable fashion moment. Hilarie, Joy and Sophia discuss the hot tub scene in this episode and why it led to turtlenecks becoming essential to Brooke's wardrobe. And, Don't miss "real life" kissing advice that we all need to know. Plus, Acting Tip 101: How to "act" drunk. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion with your tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Hey, all you drama queens, welcome back to episode 11, 111.11, the living years. Isn't that a song?

That feels good. In the living years. It is, the living years. That's why. Okay. The Eagles, maybe John Henley. Okay, anyway, listen. Here's what happens in this episode.

In this episode, unable to cope with the pressure from. Dan, Nathan quits the basketball team, while Peyton enjoys having her dad home. Daddy. And we get to meet her dad for the first time, which was such a nice introduction of a new parent to the scenario. And I wish we'd gotten to see more of him, this lovely actor. Thomas Ian Griffith, yeah. I mean, I had two, three very good actors playing father figures to me.

There was Thomas Ian Griffith here. And then Kevin Kilner came in to play the character later. And then John Doe played my birth dad years later. But in this first, like, introduction of Peyton's dad, the character's name was not originally Larry. The character's name was originally Glenn. But I was living above that bar. Oh, Glenn, the guy.

The scary guy. Scary guy. It would stare at you. Girls, I had so many creepy nights. with Glenn. We're like, I would go out on my patio and our patios are right next to each other and he'd just be like, you alone over there? You know, and I'd like just broken up with my boyfriend and was like living alone and it was the first time I really kind of had to navigate that myself and you know I'm that person that's been watching Dateline like forever and like before that

unsolved mysteries and things. And like SVU marathons on Sundays. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yes. And so worst case scenario was always like on my mind. But this dude named Glenn that lived next to me had creeped me out enough that when I got the script, I immediately went to our bosses. And I was like, guys, he's going to think it's a sign. He's going to think I'm like communicating with him. I want to change the name. And they're like, uh, okay, we don't care. You know, like, what do you want to change it to? And my childhood love, like the boy I loved from kindergarten through freshman year in high school was Larry Eppard. He has since married one of, like, my other great loves,

Saracene, who we cheered with. And I, you know, like, I guess they hadn't gotten married yet, but they had been together since we were in high school. And I was like, Larry is a safe person. Like, Larry is someone who I love. It's a name I can say with like affection. Like, I love you, Larry. Did you tell the show run?

Did you tell them that, the writers? Oh, yeah. I was like, it's my childhood love. It's the person who I trust so, so much, you know. It was just a name that did sound like a strong dad energy. Sure. Like, there's not a lot of kids walking around named Larry. Like, we weren't going to run into a Larry at Trial High School.

So they're like, sure. But that is how, that's how dad got his name. But yeah, to Joy's point, I had been told, did you guys hear this? I did now that once you said it, I had like echoes in my memory of something. They recast my dad because they thought that we had so much flirty energy. And when I, when we were in the thick of it back in like 2003, I just kind of took their word for it. And now that I'm watching it back, I'm like, I don't see it. I don't see it at all.

I see so much like tenderness, but it doesn't feel like it has a chemistry. It feels really authentic and the affection feels real. And he definitely does not, I mean, to me anyway, appear to be flirting with you. No. No, he, like, Thomas did a really nice job. He did a beautiful job. Poor Thomas. Yeah.

Well, he's on Cobra Kai now. So he was like the bad guy from Crouty Kid. That's right. And they're bringing him back onto Cobra Kai now. So I hope he's out there kicking ass. I think we had a good three episode run with him. It's hard bringing in a new parent character and having to see these. characters that have been really independent, now all of a sudden, like, oh, shucks, daddy.

It felt weird to say daddy. That felt weird. For Peyton, yeah, I could see that. I could see that. I loved it, though. I loved watching the way you guys played your scenes, and I love seeing that sort of youthful innocence in her, because she does always have to be a grownup. And, like, he comes home, and, you know, you really seem like a sense.

like a sweet kid and it's nice we weren't flirting god oh well i'll tell you who was flirty today in this episode was brook that was a lot of flirtiness but also vulnerable but then oh yeah i mean it went to a really vulnerable place which i loved i loved that arc for you but yeah that was that was tough we were all kind of cringing at that hot tub scene that was that was that was rough way to start yeah i mean that that that was the scene that led to my you know first ever screaming fight with my bosses. And I did what I said I was going to do. And I came to work for the next scene wearing a turtleneck. You sure did, girl. I was like, watch me. This is completely inappropriate. And I will continue to wear, I will wear turtlenecks forever. Is the title of

this episode, pasties and turtlenecks? Because honestly, it should be. It really should be. You could have had the same effect with all of your scenes, whether it's like from last episode, where you're taking the Polaroids to this episode, where you're unzipping your pants and stuff, you could have gotten the same effect without turning it up to 11 every time. Yeah. You know?

It was like somebody read a perfectly good script and was like, you know what we need is more cowbell. It's like, Emma Brooke is the cowbell. Honestly, they were like, ring the bell, child. You're the cowbell. I will say, though, like, it made me so happy to finally get to a point with her in this episode

where all of that gets taken away. Yeah. You know, like the cracking the joke being like, I'm going to borrow this part in case he's feeling frisky. Like all those gross one-liners, we get to this point where she keeps saying like, I feel uncomfortable, I feel scared, I feel like I'm not enough, I feel like I'm not being chosen, I feel afraid.

Yeah. And those scenes grow in intensity. And when she finally gets to say, I don't feel like, I feel like we're both being played, which honestly is true. Oh my God, she's so right. She's so right. She's like he's literally, he's dating us both. It's weird.

But by the end, when she gets to sit and be really vulnerable, and I kind of feel like it's the foreshadowing for years later when she finally admits that she's terrified, she's not enough. Oh, when she's like, I need you to need. Me. Oh, this is the beginning of that. It's the beginning of this girl saying, I don't feel like I am as valuable. I'm scared you're not going to pick me. I'm scared you don't really want me for anything other than, you know. Or that you have to supplement me with someone else, which is a terrible feeling, you know, where it's like, like, Brooke Davis is enough. I think our fan base, you know, can like, fervently express that. But to know, like, oh, you have to go and hang out with a whole other person because you're not stimulated talking to me or you're not, you know, whatever. I got nervous watching this.

I was like, oh, is Peyton gaslighting Brooke? I mean, like, you're fine. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. And I think, I think, no. And maybe that's just me being defensive of Peyton. Like, I think she genuinely wanted you to feel like, no, baby, this is your win. This is your win.

But Lucas for sure gas lights her. Like, Lucas for sure is like, what are you talking about? But you know what I actually see for Peyton and I have such a heart for it. I see a friend really trying to do her best. Yeah. I think in that scene where you're like, no, you're good and you're enough. He's choosing you. I think the reason you leave is because you can't keep going.

Like, what a weird moment to leave a person. but I think you leave because you're doing your best to be her friend. And in the last episode, when you, you know, when you left the cafe at Open Mic Night because seeing us was hard. And I run after you that the sort of like missed connection that these girls are having of like, don't feel like a third wheel. You're my best friend. You're more important to me than him.

And you're like, yeah, it's the third wheel thing. Sure, sure. Peyton is picking Brooke. She's saying you're my best friend. I choose you over this. And it, I don't know, it is, it is a love story, these two. For sure. Yeah.

I love it. And I think when you're, I, I have a lot of like, oh, baby girl tenderness for Peyton in this position. Because what a nightmarish spot to be in. And they're just kids who don't know how to explain the totality of their feelings to each other. Well, I like that Haley is expressing her feeling in this episode of loyalty to Nathan through booze and skipping school. Hey, you've just got to death in her this episode. But honestly, it didn't make me cringe at all. I loved it.

I was so fun. I was like, you go, Haley goes Buckwild. We're all like, woo, get some. Why does Haley keep ending up with these hats? Oh, my God. At this point, they're just scorn with you, baby. Yeah, I mean, that was the most hideous thing. I've ever seen in my life.

That was worse than the penis hat. You're saying you don't want to sell that as merch. You don't want to sell the Haley James, like, knit goober hat? Maybe that one was the penis hat, and I mixed up my memories. I don't know. No, the other one surely looked more phallic. Yeah, it was bad. But I do remember that was the first time I ever had to throw up on anybody on camera,

and they gave me this cup full of like a little, it was like a banana smoothie. And I had to take a sip of it right before I got in the car and hold. it in my mouth the whole time yeah until it's the worst shot so you just sit there like acting normal and then you have to pretend like something's coming up and then you throw it up um and pa paul i know i just had never thrown up in anybody's lap i'd like throw up in his lap crazy they didn't done that multiple times no he was a great sport about it i wish we had him on right now to talk about it but we'll ask him when we when we see him um but that was a fun It was a fun episode. We went out to the beach and that house was so gorgeous, Dan's Beach House.

And it was fun to be, James and I had fun. I think I just remember being outside. He and I hadn't gotten to do a lot of stuff, just the two of us out on a location. We usually were on stage somewhere. So that might have been the first time it was just the two of us on location somewhere. Has there been another scene that I'm missing? Is it the first time we're on the beach? Might have been... It feels like it. Tree Hill was this kind of like nondescript town in the middle of nowhere. And then they realized like, oh, God, we've got this gorgeous ocean right here.

Like, let's use that. But yeah, I feel like the beach kind of belonged to you too. You know, we'd seen it in the distance at the party, but we hadn't been out there, had we? I don't think so. So it was a really, it was a gorgeous house. It was a beautiful day. I had on that stupid hat and I got to play drunk. which was so fun.

So here's the secret to playing drunk for all you actors out there, which I hope I did a good job so that you actually want to take this advice. You did. You did great. The secret to playing drunk is play sober.

So whatever you think you would do to act sober, like intentionally, like I am acting, I am going to put this down. I'm going to sit down here and I'm going to be fine. I am fine. I'm fine.

I'm fine. That actually is always the thing I do when I have to play drunk. Fine. Is I literally like I get a little like this. I kind of give myself a sway. She's swaying back and forth. I'm fine. And it puts me right there where I'm like,

Mm-hmm. The sense memory comes back. Totally fine. The spins. That's it. Like difficulty opening your eyes. Yeah. But what I love.

like about this episode is that we see Haley and Nathan who have nothing in common. And we see Brooke and Lucas who have nothing in common. And these two couples are trying to navigate, like, how do we connect? And because Haley and Nathan talk so much and they talk about therapy and they, you know, they really like dig into the meat of a relationship, they're getting there, you know. whereas Brooke and Lucas are like, she's begging him. She's like, I want to connect.

I want to connect. I want to connect. And he's like, let me put my tongue in your mouth. Right. That's how every conversation ends. He's like, sure, baby, you got it. He's like, yeah, let's kiss.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and one of the things I love so much, too, as we look at the difference between the two, that moment, as fun as it was to watch Nathan and Haley skip school and have these little adventures and like, you know, get teenage wild, I loved when he came to her and said, essentially, like, I don't want you to change for me. I like you. And he says, I like that a person like you see something in me. And the energy that James brought to that scene, at least for me as a viewer, was it felt like he was

saying to her, you make me want to change for the better. I don't want you to change to, like, ditch class. Yeah. But it was good for her, though. It was good for her. it was good for her, but I just, I loved that he, rather than leaning into it and being like, let's just keep, you know, partying was like, no, but you, I like you. Yeah. Did you ever do a bad thing for a boy in high school? What was the worst thing that you did? I don't know.

I was a pretty tame kid. Oh, I know what I did. I lied. I had a boyfriend who was real bad. We've talked about him. And he snuck out of school. school and went home and like had lunch and then drank a beer and then came back to school and the English teacher smelled beer on him. And so he got sent to the principal's office and they

like didn't have a breathalyzer at the high school. And they were like, you have been drinking. And he's like, what are you talking about? They're like, you've been drinking. And he said, no, I have not. I did go home. I did. I'll admit that I skip school and I went home. And I went home and I had leftovers from last night. I went to Outback Steakhouse with the Burtons last night because we had gone out to dinner and my parents had had him like join us. But he didn't get like beer soaked pizza or, you know, like what? What smells like beer the next day? And so they called me into the office and they're like, is this story true? And I had to be like, oh, yeah, for sure. It's the leftover outbacked steakhouse. That's what you're smelling.

selling friends. And it was traumatic because I was like student government and like, you know, super good. That's hilarious though, Hill. Sof, did you ever do anything in high school that was like bad for a boy? Yeah. Oh, man. Well, oh, I remember my junior year in high school, my friend's parents were going out of town the weekend of prom, which I'm like, I mean, what do you do? Parent plans that. Yeah, it's pretty stupid. You planned it? Like you set us up. And because I was like, you know, a pretty type A responsible kid. I remember her parents being like, well, the two of you were in charge. And I was like, I'm not in this family, but okay.

Like, sure. Because I think the idea was, you know, we know nine times out of 10, like, you know, Sophia is the designated driver. If there's like house parties. Yeah, Sophia had a checklist. She's like, turn the porch lights on at 8.30. Yeah. I was like, I got wild from time to time.

but I was generally too scared. And so I think they were kind of like, you'll make sure things don't get out of hand. And we had some friends that liked to be out of hand. And what was supposed to be like 20 people having an after prom party turned into like 150 people at the house in the pool. It was a rager. It was insane.

That's way too many people. You were like Lindsay Lohan and me. girls no it was on it felt like a movie like it was so crazy there were so many people and i remember just being like what are we going to do and like trying to manage stuff but also you know trying to make sure i don't know i didn't want to like be a dork i didn't want to be like a you know stick in the mud and um and yeah things just got so wonky safe thank god but i was terrified I could just picture, like, looking in the bathrooms to make sure there's still enough toilet paper for everyone.

100%. 100%. Oh, yeah. I was like, oh, you need a bottle opener here. Oh, you need a toilet paper here. Like, whatever. I remember one of, this guy who a girl at my school was dating was, like, showing us something.

And I didn't want, I was like, cool. Like, I don't know what that is. And literally years later, when I was in college, the first time I ever saw a person roll a joint, I was like, oh, my God, he was smoking marijuana. Like, I was such. a dork i just didn't know and so um i remember going i i went to sleep that night and like there were obviously not enough beds for everyone and i slept in a bed with my boyfriend what and it turned into this like massive scandalous like because of course we got caught we all got caught

yeah of course um we tried to lie it didn't go well that's what i did i lied i i lied i lied to my friend's parents because I tried to say only a couple people came and then they invited other people and then which was true but we were like uh and I don't know why we said this we were like everyone was out by 1 a.m we swear and my friend's dad holds up a photo like this and goes so why does the clock behind this guy opening a beer in my kitchen say 4 30 and we were like and then somebody had taken a picture of my high school sweetheart and I asleep in a bed together But they did it because the joke was, this poor guy's been dating Sophia for three years. She won't put out.

She won't put out. Like, the poor kid. Everyone was like, oh, ha, ha, ha. And so then it turned into this thing where like weirdly parent, like the parents were like, what did you do? And I was like, I slept. Yes. I was sleeping.

What are you talking about? And man, it was a whole, it was like a whole big thing. Luckily, he has the loveliest family. And his parents were just like, the fact that you give us a break y'all were fine um but i i definitely felt bad because i lied i lied to my friend's parents about the time but that was really not that wasn't for a boy so much as just for us because we were trying to not get grounded until we graduated it's the lion man joy were you a liar like we were uh no i was pretty good i mean no i i can't think of anything i did bad for a boy i

really like no that was that was really have annoyed me and my best friend at the time who was totally in love with in high school who was a boy was also a good kid so you know he was like upstanding young man citizen sure trying to do the right thing um no I do I don't know why this is coming to mind because it's not really on topic but I'll tell you anyway I remember um because I guess it's a misunderstanding I I did feel like because I, it means because I'm an artist or a theater kid, I told you, like I would change in the backseat of a car, whether it was a boy or girl driving, like, whatever I would have, like, I just was used to dance in theater and you just, I was very

comfortable with my body, but not in like, I wasn't trying to fuck everybody. I just was, like, comfortable in my body. And by the way, it's a banging body, Joy. I'd be comfortable in that, too. I was. So it just, but I knew that I felt misunderstood a lot. I felt like people, looked at me like I was trying to get attention with my body and that I was trying to be slutty when I wasn't. I just was like a dancer kid, theater kid. Oh, you mean they were mad at you because you didn't feel insurmountable shame about just being a girl? Oh, shoking. For a scarlet letter on her. Who are you? Going up to his lakehouse, he and his family had this had this lakehouse and I remember going up to it one summer. And I got, there was a shower.

And we were kind of, like, I don't know if I had just, if we were, it was a bunch of kids that weekend, I think his parents maybe weren't there. And I remember I got, I was taking a shower and he came into brush his teeth. And there was a big curtain. It's not like we could see each other. But, and we were very, very close, like besties, like, since we were 13. So this was a very Lucas Haley relationship, except that I was desperately in love with him. Oh. It's okay.

It all worked out. But I, I was in the shower. And I don't know if you guys do this when you turn on the hot water again, being like a tactile person and being in touch with my body. I just sit there under the heat and I'm like, uh, and I just like, you know, let it all like, I'm a singer and I'm vocal. And so I'm sitting in this shower and he's brushing his teeth and I'm in this steaming shower going, uh, and he just goes. And he just like, go, he stops the water and he's like, what are you doing? oh god i didn't even clock that but it wasn't like he was turned on it but he was like mad at me for trying to do something i was like like nothing i'm just i'm taking a shower oh god oh no no i'm not

and he was like whatever joy then like you know who rinses his mouth and walked out of the bathroom he was mad at me and i just don't like i could never have said anything to convince him that i was not like trying to turn him on and get him to shower well isn't that when all those herbal essence commercials were out remember the herbal essence commercials there was like the woman in moaning in the shower. Isn't that so funny? That made me so uncomfortable. You guys, I'm so red.

I just had to let it go. I had to let it go. I was like, well, he's going to think I'm a sled. Okay. He thinks sunshine. Also, the acoustics in the bathroom are supreme. Oh, yeah. So, no, it's spectacular.

It sounds. Yeah. I'm red too. I'm sweating. Just even thinking about it. Yeah, I'm horrifying. Embarrassing moments from high school. Also, I just realized you guys, I need to say this.

So we threw this party that out of hand after mom. She's still upset about the party. No, I'm so upset. And we got caught and it was so sad. And my mom really did me a solid and was like, if I tell your father, he is going to kill you, which honestly doesn't make sense. My dad's like a very sensitive artist.

I don't think that would have happened. But my mom goes, I'm going to tell your dad. I found a pack of cigarettes in your car. And that's why you're grounded for three weeks. And so. Dad, you should probably know that when I was a junior in high school, we threw a rager of an after-prong party. And mom and I lied to you about why I was... Wait, your dad doesn't know?

I don't think he knows. So I was realizing that in real time. My sweet dad who cries every time he tells me he's proud of me, probably wouldn't have flipped out. But I was today years old when I realized I still had a secret from him. I love this confession. The cigarettes. My mom, I was like, what? Oh, all right, whatever.

That's my, yeah. Confessional moments. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric. that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls

became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, how do we get back into the show right now? Well, my question is, okay, so Sophia, if your dad would have been upset about you having this

party like in high school. Yeah. When we shot this, we're only, like, a couple years out of high school. We're, like, you know, three, four years out of high school. How did your parents react to all this, like, hot tub stuff? Like, all the sexy time stuff. Yeah, they didn't love that. They were like, this is...

What is this? You know, I think it was just, it was always, it was uncomfortable for them. You know, like, as a kid, I don't know, I don't think any of us or anyone listening. Like, you don't want to see your parents have sex. And I don't think parents want to think about it. their kids having sex either. No, it's awkward enough when it comes on on a movie and you're all sitting in the room together. It's like, oh, man. And, you know, there's, that probably points to the fact that as a society we need to grow up a little bit and, like, get unashamed of our

bodies, joy, teach a class. You know what does it real quick? I just show Gus the shining where, you know, like the hot naked woman in the bathtub gets out and he's being a creep and they start kissing and then her body decomposes. So I just watched that with Gus. So I just watched that with Gus, and he never wants to see a naked woman ever in the whole life. He's ruined. You're all witches. Yeah. Your body's going to fall apart and rot.

That'll do it. Yeah, that's the only sex scene that's acceptable is when she turns into a corpse. Well, and the irony that here we are, you know, talking about, like, crazy teenage behavior, which we were always modeling on the show, and, like, everyone's flirting with everyone, and they recast your dad because apparently y'all were flirting and there was no sexual energy between you i don't see it i mean maybe it'll come up in future episodes but i didn't clock it at all you know who has real sexy energy and they have a scene in this episode and i was like oh man deb and keith girl that was hot talk like when they're chatting and he's like yes send nathan to talk to me i'm just like isn't it a little

How funny how chemistry works because I do love Keith and Karen and there's a, there's a no, like they know each other and there's a warmth there. There's something familiar. It's tender. But there was like some kind of heat, some kind of energy between Deb and Keith. Oh, I don't know how that happens. And interestingly, though, Craig is like a, I don't want to say he's a flirty person, but he is a person who listens. Yeah. And he looks at. And he looks. looks at you when he's talking to you, and it feels nice. Yeah. And so his character, like, listens to the women. He listens to Deb. He listens to Karen. He wants to tell them both, like, you're a good mom. You're doing a good job.

He says the things that you want to hear. Lucas is copying that behavior. And he's telling Brooke, girl, you are great. And he's telling Peyton, like, your art matters. You know, like, it's, I don't know how intentional it is, but it is. a generational pattern that we're witnessing. Except that the way Lucas is doing it is, I guess the way a teenage boy would,

which is mimicking rather than, I don't know, to help me with a vocabulary word of like, he's mimicking it. He's not actually, it's not a, coming from an authentic place of really listening and caring.

I think he's mimicking the behavior. He wants to kiss the hot girl. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it seems like he wants to kiss all the girls. Like, you know, the, the continuation of the way he shows up for Peyton and then the way he shows up for Brooke, it makes sense to me why Brooke says, I think he's, you know, when she says he's trying to have it both ways. He's like, he's basically trying to date us both. And, and when you watch it, you're like, yeah, me, he kind of is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. He's confused. It's probably the most 16-year-old thing about Lucas. You know, they like wrote, like, I love books and I'm a man and I'm the man of the house and I think about things. But, like, ultimately, 16-year-old boys want to get down with as many girls as they can get down. You know, like, it's just, it's...

Well, yeah. I think the most juvenile thing about the character is the immaturity with his emotions. Yeah. And if he didn't have that, you'd probably be like, come on, this is not a kid. No, it'd be James Vanderbeak. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, so it's terrible for Brooke and Peyton, but it works really well, you know, for a young

boy. I like it in the show too because it's a good contrast with where Nathan is at, having already experienced all of the stuff that Lucas is just kind of walking into, waiting into the world. Nathan's already been through all that. So now he's on this journey to self-discovery, to discovering how to be a better person in the world. He's seeing Dan for who he is. He's really confused and torn in so many directions, but he's learning how to stand up for himself. I mean, I was just so in love with the character of Nathan in this episode. He really won my heart in a big way. I was just proud of him.

The way he walked away from the two parents arguing about who's going to give him a ride. And he's like, I'm going to take care of me, you know, setting his own boundaries. It's pretty great. I loved it. I loved, we were watching the episode, you guys, and it was so cute. I don't even remember what scene it was, but a scene with Nathan ended, and Joy, you go, I'm team Nathan, man. So we were like, yeah. We love it.

It was so cute. The Dan Scott I love you only exists because of Nathan asserting himself. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But was such a great piece of acting from Paul. And it was shot so well. What I loved, loved, loved about it is that it's super tight.

So it feels like a whisper. And it's over Dan's shoulder. Yeah. Over the best French overs. It feels like I can't look you in the eye when I say this. And, you know, normally when you shoot a scene, it's like your master shot, which includes the whole set and all the actors, big wide shot, and then coverage coverage. You get coverage of each character.

For them to use that angle on Paul and do a whole camera setup for that secret special, I love you, It was really, really good. That's good TV. Yeah. It's such good TV. And the way Paul chose to play it, you know, saying how much he cares about him, no matter what he chooses, he says these things and starts to cry. I mean, his, you know, his tears in his eyes. And that pregnant pause where he says all the validating things, and that's already so hard for him.

And it's like he almost chokes before he says, I love him. view, and you're right, he can't look Nathan in the eye when he does it. Oh, I mean, what a, what a vulnerable place for Paul to have gone as an actor. What beautiful choices he made in that moment. Yeah, I agree. Considering he's such a bastard in all the other scenes. Well, I'm considering that the scene starts, by the way, with Nathan coming in and saying, I'm really sorry for all the stuff I've been pulling. And Hillary, when we watched it, you were like, he's apologizing to his abuser. Yeah, maybe nuts.

And then we get to the end of the scene and we're like, oh, man, Paul did really good. It's such a weird thing when you're trying to observe the characters, but you're also watching your friends be incredible actors. Yeah. Tom Wright did a great job directing this episode. I especially loved the ending when we got to see everybody in their own place of kind of feeling out their own sense of loss, confusion, misplacement in the world. and, you know, hoping for hope.

I felt like we got a piece of all of that, which was a tone that I think had been missing a little bit from the last few episodes. I think we kind of got away from that with all the drama. And this episode seemed to come back to the heart, the core of what this show is about. It's not about the drama. It's about the people.

Well, and the space for big feelings. I mean, even thinking about the fact that it opens in the therapist's office. It's like, this is going to be an episode where we really excavate what's going on with everybody. And it and it rings true through the whole thing and it's really good. Yeah. I loved that. I want to talk about Jake Chigelsky. Let's talk about him.

All the time. I mean, Jake Jigelsky is a really grounding character in this because he makes Lucas kind of, kind of cut the shit. And he's got way bigger things going on than anyone else. You know, like having a child is such a major deal that it's like, oh, your feelings got hurt by a boy. Cool story, kid, you know. I loved working with Brian.

Like, it's not a secret that I was just like, oh, my God, he's so cool. But to see him with these scenes with the baby in this episode and bringing her to practice and the slow burn between Peyton and Jake, she has not. I mean, we see like little twinkle in her eye, but Peyton has not been like, sup. Whereas so many other characters in our show are just like, I love you, like right away, like the rush into relationships. Like even, Sophia, you were saying when, in the last episode, when, when Brooke shows up and she's like, hi, boyfriend. And we were like, oh, we're there. I'm like, what? I guess.

We're on the B word? Yeah. Fine. Yeah. The slow burn with Jake, I like. I'm slow to warm up in real life. It's good for Peyton. Same.

This is sort of what we were talking about in the episode that we saw where everybody was goading you and you kissed Lucas out of spite almost. And then suddenly you guys were in a bedroom tearing each other's clothes off. And he's telling you, I want everything with you. I want the whole fairy tale after like four episodes. It's just like, you know, I mean, he just met you. Yeah. Chill out, man. Like what?

Yeah. And this feels, that's what I was saying when we were watching. I get such soulmate vibes from Jake and Peyton because he is waiting for her. He gets it. And she takes time and he takes time. He's got plenty of shit going on too. And I just feel like it was such a good match. I'm so mad that we got robbed and we didn't get to see you guys together forever.

I agree. That's all. I'm off my soapbox. We were supposed to do in a different movie. There was a movie that we were supposed to do together years ago. Really? Yeah, something he did. And they, like, called to see if I could do it.

And I had, like, you know, I had a toddler and Jeff was gone and I wasn't able to go do it. But Greenberg is one of those people. I've gotten to work with so many of our friends doing Christmas movies. Yeah. You know? Like Tyler and Buckley and, you know, Antoine. and Lee and all, you know, the whole gang that I haven't gotten to work with Brian again

and I would like to. He's a fun scene partner. That's going to give me my, my Peyton and Jake for life moments. It's the ending we want to see. I need that. You know what's funny though? Like, when you point out

how swiftly characters are like, all of it, you've changed my life. You've changed my life in three episodes. Yeah, it's like, Like, gee, this is a lot. Like, I love, and I guess I'm like, oh, that's what I relate to. Like the moment in the last episode at the open mic night, when there's just that beat between Peyton and Jake and you like, look at him, I'm like, oh, it's, that's everything.

And I'm like, I guess that's how I flirt. I'm like, hey, and then I don't talk. Because I'm slow to do the warm up too. I don't know. Greenberg in real life became like a good friend of me season one because I'd gone through that breakup I was like starting to date someone new

I didn't have a car he went car shopping with me and like I remember we were like looking at mountaineers like he was like what you need is a mountaineer like let's go look at do it is that what I need? Yeah I was like sure mister that'll get you in my car cool

but then he became I'd never lived in L.A. And so he became person when we started to have to go out to LA for press for the show that would like show me where to eat dinner and like where to go and you know that that same cool dude energy like girl I'm not I'm not into you but I'm your cool guy friend you know Jake has that he's not looking for a girlfriend you know everything's about the daughter and his interests lie outside of I want to put my tongue in that girl's mouth. That's what sets him apart from the other boys.

We're like, wow, look at that guy. And then it's like, oh, man, the bar's maybe not that high. He's high above it, but I feel like the bar's kind of low. Set your bars high, ladies. It's high school. Listen, I kissed so many people in high school and I don't regret a bit of it. No way, Jose. That's when you're supposed to kiss people. Get it out of your system. Oh, man. When I lived in New York after high school, I kissed so many people. so fun. You did? Of course. What's the best? Give me the best New York City post high school cares. Oh my gosh. Where you hear like, kiss me. I told you about the guy that was it from from Juilliard that I, you know, we were dancing around it and I was standing outside of his

college dorm and he like answered, I went back because I left something there and he answered the door shirtless and then like I was like, I'm dying right now. And then he he hugged me and like, And like my heart was pounding and he goes, your heart's pounding. It was very exciting. But I actually don't even remember if we kissed then. I think I ran away. Like I always did. I was like, I'm okay.

Then I just ran off. But I did, I was dating a guy in New York and I remember it was just like a dreary night. We went to see some Beatles movie at like one of those, you know, movie theaters underground that played old movies. like the draft house or something and then um yeah i remember going outside and it was like it was on the east side and it was drizzly and we just kissed on a street corner and it was so and by the way this is somebody who had been dating my roommate and then scandal i know and then he this is the high school thing oh my gosh hillary this is the same thing that happened to you the switcheroo. And then he was like, I think I like your roommate instead. And I was like, I don't know if I

oh my God. I think I was kind of like broken. Boys love the switcheroo. She was like, I'm fine. It's whatever. Don't worry about it. You know, I wasn't that into him anyway. And then of course, years later, she was like, that wrecked me. I was like, I'm sorry. Oh, God. You're like, but you said, oh, wow. You know, it is realistic. It is. It's your Brooklyn Payton moment. We're just young and dumb and we don't understand our emotions. And we don't have anybody telling us what's okay and what's not okay. We're just trying to figure it out. And you so badly want to be okay with things to like be cool. Because you think it's mature. You know, team player and team player. No. Just tell me how you feel. Here's the thing. If you're young out there listening, we just need you

to go be as messy as humanly possible because, one, you'll get to laugh about it when you get older. Safely, please. And two, it's a good way to practice chaos. Like, like chaos from kissing. seen somebody is so easy. It seems big when you're young, but it's a really easy practice tool so that when you're older and like real shit hits the fan, you're like, oh, I know how to deal with this. I kissed the wrong person once and I practiced these feelings. Yeah. That's right. I kissed somebody. There was a boy right before I left for college that I worked with and he was older and he was very um he felt dangerous like one of our dates was like we went to a cemetery that was supposed to be real haunted and he'd been living alone in like a farmhouse out in the

middle of nowhere and you know like and he drove like a muscle car sounds like a serial killer I know I'm like are this is this true detective baby he was so good looking and I was like I'm working with this guy but I I'm going to kiss him for sure And so we went out, we had to, I don't know where we went one night. And he picked me up and he brought me home. And like we talked on my parents' front stoop for a long time. And I was like, well, I'll walk you to your car. My parents' neighborhood had the best show because I was kissing a new dude every other week. Like that's the last summer before college. And as like we got to his car door, we just stood there. And I was like, I don't want it to be awkward at work. And he goes, it's been awkward at work. And then kissed me. And I was just like, this is a movie, this is awesome. Wow. That is good. Kiss as many people as possible.

Yeah, for sure. I'm down with that. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. every day native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to burn sageburn bridges on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts oh i know what i want to talk about in this episode oh yeah go go i make up um because you guys have met jojo you haven't met kelly jefferson yet, who was the other half of that dream team. Sophia, your eye makeup in particular is so on point.

So beautiful. It's so good. It's so bold. Talk to us about the collaboration between you and Kelly Jefferson to create the iconic early 2000s look. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I wish I could remember how it started. But when Kelly came in, because, you know, she wasn't our makeup bar.

just right in the beginning. Yeah. She was like, this girl is into fashion. And we were like looking through magazines because there was no Pinterest yet. And we really got into this idea, which I love, because it's like, Brooks trying to make herself up, like the girls she sees in the magazines, but she's 16, so she like matches her eye shadow to her outfit. And I just love it.

And we really thought a lot about how to do it. and how to bring something young to it. Because it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a look that you see on girls in their 20s. Yeah. Or at least you did then. And so we really wanted to figure out how to make it feel like, you know, this young girl who was super into makeup. But she didn't have like an eye she did every day.

She like coordinated with her outfits. And I don't know. I just loved it. Kelly and I have, Paul. Do you know what the candy's ads? Remember the candies ads, the shoes? Yeah, yeah. I feel like that kind of color and that mischief is like really kind of how the Brooke character started to feel of like, I'm going to wear this juicy lip gloss today.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. We got really into, God, we bought so many pallets of really colorful eye shadow. We got really into like super glossy lip gloss. I mean, Kelly and I really really worked. on what that girl looked like. That's awesome. Joy, your eye makeup was really good, too.

Did you, once you started dating Nathan, did that free you up to be flirtier, aesthetically? Because they really tried to make you like, you know, the girl that didn't wear any makeup in the beginning. Yeah, I think that was part of it. She was, like, just experimenting a little bit more with wanting to feel grown up. But I also don't know that we put,

I don't think I put that much thought, into it i might have but i don't remember but was kelly on this episode she must have been because that is such a kelly yeah so um yeah i mean i think that was just her instinct was to was to draw out my brown eyes i don't know try and make them look bigger or something dolier i don't know but she knows she did she did a great job yeah we need to ask her for sure she'll tell us Kelly ray gore jefferson okay so destiny wants to know after so many years of doing the show how Were you guys able to snap into character and back into your own personality during filming? And do you think that affected your actual personality?

I think it would be the other way around. For me, I mean, my personality would have affected the character more than the character affecting my personality, I think, I hope. Yeah, I mean, I've said it in the past. I feel like part of the reason I got so goofy in interviews or just like kind of flip it and would lie is because I needed people. to understand that I'm not hate and sorry. Like I, I'm not an innately sad person, so I would clown it up a lot. I still do. Because I also just don't like wallowing and sh-you know.

I'm not a wallower. Yeah. Be sad and move on. Me too. Yeah, I feel that. I don't like to wallow, but I am really analytical and really introspective. and really want to, like, I want to suck the marrow out. You know, I want to get the lesson.

I want to understand systems. Like, I like technical things. And none of that you see in Brooke. We got a glimpse of it this episode where she's like, I need to know your hobby. Yeah. That's true. I need to know what you like. I need to know what you like and I want to like it too.

But I, yeah, I think what was hard. And I talked about this a little bit before, too. It was hard for me to feel like people. thought I was some like out there super sexual person because Brooke was because it it brought an energy and like a gaze my way that made me feel very um very exposed and very uncomfortable so it's interesting I I know that as the years went on there were things about my personality to Joy's point that affected Brooks more um and I do think I took some some lessons from Brooke. You know, I, God, I was such a people pleaser. I was a pro at like

ignoring red flags and just being a good girl. And Brooke really taught me to be like, I'm not going to put up with this shit. Like absolutely not. I'm dead. You know, we're finished here. This is the line. You've crossed it. I didn't have that when I started playing her at all. That took me years to cultivate. And I, in hindsight, and like, I don't know, but in hindsight, I feel like she probably helped me learn that. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah.

I was like that. I'm done. I'm done. I'm just crying in my Cheerios still. Just feeling big feelings. I'm dealing with my kids. You know, it's so funny because I like, my son is a really tender animal. And so sometimes when we're watching these episodes and I see Peyton being like particularly sensitive, I, it's like watching Gus in a wig.

Because he has the chin tremble when he gets upset. And I'm just like, oh, no. Oh, my gosh. That's my kid. Yeah. Yeah. He can't watch these dillies much, much, much older. Otherwise, he'll just be able to manipulate me.

It's too much. All right, we got another question. Joy, what's our next question? Oh, I like this one. And I've, we've talked about this, but I think the fans will love to know. Erin has a question about stage names. She asks, have you ever considered or did you ever consider using a stage name instead of your real name? And Joy, why do you use Bethany if you don't go by that name?

Is there a story behind why you go by Joy instead of Bethany? Yeah, I'll run into my portion of this real quick. I, of course, considered using a stage name when I was younger because I was obsessed with the name Rose. And I remember going on an audition once with my mother and I was old enough to sign my name. She made me sign myself into the sign-in sheet. So I must have been, I think I was probably 10, 9 or 10. And I wrote my name as Rose Lens on the sign-in sheet

because I wanted to see what it would sound like to have somebody call that out and if I liked it. And so she said, you know, somebody came out called Rose, Rose Lens. And I stood up and walked in. And my mom's like, do you know where you got the name from? Where'd you hear it? That you were like, that's the one. I don't.

I've just, and it's my daughter's middle name. I've just always, I don't know, that name just very syncopated with me in some deep way. Symbiotic? I don't know what the word is. Anyway. But, yeah, and then I changed the spelling of my name to J-O-I-E when I was 13 just in high school and went by J-O-E lens for many. years professionally and then changed it. When I got One Tree Hill, I was just going through sort of a

shift in my life and trying to figure out, I guess, wanting to be more authentic and not trying to be whatever everybody else, what I thought everyone else wanted me to be, which is like the theme of my life. It's something I've been trying to figure out how to, it's been a very, it's funny being my age now and looking back and being like, man, I'm like, I can. God, it took me a long time. Like, I was aware that that was a problem of mine when I was 20, but it's still working its way out of my system. It takes time.

My God. Yeah, so that's why I decided to use my whole name. I've never personally liked the name Bethany for me, but I felt, I was, it was more of like a leap of faith. Like, I'm just going to, like, embrace fully who I am and just go for this and use my whole name. So whatever. I still wish I was Rose Lens, but it's too late now.

Rose Joy Lens. Yeah, it's funny. Because I, I interestingly know a lot of guys who go by their middle name. Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. You know? And I don't really know where that comes from.

If someone wants to give us the research on that, we would love it. Yeah. But one of the things that I always thought was cool about you using your full name, you know, first, middle last, was that people who aren't. really close to you, we'll call you Bethany, and we get to call you Joe. It's also how we know who's full of shit. It does. It does help. It helps to know when somebody says, hey, Bethany, and I'm like, oh, you don't know me. Yes, how can I help you? You know, if somebody calls me joy, then I know they know me. Yeah, I don't know. I just think that's so cool. I never thought to use one. Hill, did you?

So when we started doing the show, I never had this problem at MTV. I had this problem when we started doing the show is, you know, like the creepy message boards, people started accusing me of making up my name because the spelling is like all wonky. And they were like, she's trying so hard to get attention by like changing, like, clearly that's not her real name. And I remember, like, you know when you get mad about dumb stuff when you're kids? It's not like your name was like Tiger. Yeah. Well, that'd be cool. I mean, it would be cool. No, I'm named, you know how I got my name? I guess this is the story that I got. My mother's, was like turbo pregnant.

And if I was going to be a boy, I was going to be named after my dad. But she didn't have a girl name. And I guess she went to her brother's house and there was a golden retriever next door that was like yapping. And this woman comes out of the back door and it's like, Hillary!

Hillary! Knock it off! You know? And my mom was like, cool. I mean, that's the story that I've gotten over the years. But a yappy golden retriever with an I.E. Hillary with an I, you know,

I thought about going as Hillary Ross, my middle name is Ross with one S. See, again, it was like a weird spelling thing. I like it. I don't know, guys. But no, I don't know. Even now, you know, I'm Hillary Burton Morgan now, and it just feels like so many syllables. I know. Beth and A. J.R. I don't know. It doesn't like, it's not like Sarah Jessica Parker, it all rolls off your time. It made signing autographs significantly more work. I know. Right? You should just do your initial. yeah h bm the bm is a little am i am i a bm girl i'm such a 10 year old about it oh you're perfect you're like i don't know what that means um oh my god if you just i i need you to do just once sign something hillary poop just like just i'm hillary number two um i i don't know I love, I like the sound of your name with Jeff's name.

It feels very complete. Do what it feels like to me, Farah Fawcett Majors? That's what I thought of when I added the Morgan on. I was like, yeah, I always wanted three names. Everybody else got three names. You got it. Chad and Joy got three names. I never thought to have a stage name.

And honestly, I kind of wish I did because people are so freaking creepy. Yeah. Like most people are nice. but the ones that are creepy are so deeply creepy. They, like, track down your parents. Yeah, and it's like, I really wish I had, like, a layer of protection. Like, even with silly things, like, you know, certain verifications you need, like, for your bank, where you have to give them your mom's maiden name.

I can't. I had to make something up. And, I mean, this is obviously a thing we all share. Yeah. I don't know. It really irks me. like I I am such a believer in like respect and boundaries so when they get crossed it like it makes me like not be able to sleep at night and oof it just like it really it like

affects my feelings and so I'm like man if I had a stage name maybe I could have just had hold on let's like what would your stage name be in a perfect world what's your stage name it's 195 you're you go to the studio you show up at 20th century Fox or what was the big studio back then. I don't know. MGM. Fine. You go to MGM. Metro Golden Mayor and they've got the little window and you walk up to the window and there's a guy sitting there and he's got two things of index cards. One is first names. One is last names. And that's how they picked your name, by the way. Is that really? Is that serious? Yep. You would just file through the thing and pick a card at random and pick another

card at random. And there you go, Ava Gardner. No. Stop. That's it. Okay. So what will yours be? also today years old when I learned this. Yeah. I can't believe that. We need good stage names so that when we do our next series together. That's right. That's right. Here's mine.

Eve Harling. Ooh, Harling. Harling. I love it. Eve is really good. I would take, there's all sorts of names I love the sound of, but man, let me tell you what, I would love

to have not shared a last name with two former U.S. presidents, especially because my dad was from Canada. Everyone, it's so insane. And I still get people who like yell at me who were like, you know, you're, you're so progressive. Your family must be embarrassed. I'm like, my family's from Canada. And I don't know what you're talking about. So, yeah, it would have been cool to not have had that. I would have taken an index card of whatever. I'll take anything you got I always want to be someone really bitchy like Andromeda Sykes

You know Like something Kind of androgynous And just like I'm hard I'm a hard I'm Andromeda That's good

Yeah Evil Yeah we like evil Evil works You know what I mean Every movie needs an evil person Oh yeah man Like a name like Cruella DeVille

It's so good So good. Should we, while we're talking about selecting things at random, should we spin the wheel? Oh, let's spin the wheel.

That's a good segue, Joy. Okay, what do we got? The winner is most likely to live with their mom as an adult. Well, okay, so character, most likely to live with their mom as an adult. Wait, did Brooke live with Victoria?

No. Did Victoria live with Brooke? I think Victoria lived with Brooke, maybe. She didn't live with me. I would have loved it, honestly. If I could have gotten more hilarious scenes, like with, you know, Daphne, just juggling stuff at home, I would have loved it. Yeah. Which character would live with their mom?

Can I sign Brooke up to live with her mom now? Yeah. All right. Fine. I'm into. I think Keith would have, but in not in the derogatory way that I think this is implying, I think he would have done that to care for. He seems like the most nurturing that would be the kind of person that would have stuck around. And actually Craig himself also would be the type of person that would, yeah, would do that.

Yeah. Craig Keith. Winner, winner. Chicken dinner. Into it. Yeah. And in the sweetest way. But in a loving way.

Yeah. Caretaking. Respect for your elders. I love it. Hey, do we know what happens in the next episode? What do we have to look forward to next week? Anything dangerous? Anybody else taking their pants off next episode?

I have to look at the rundown. What is it? Crash Course in Polite Conversations is the next episode. Are you guys at home watching along with us? I hope so. I hope so, too. It's fun to watch it week by week like we had to in 2003. You know, that weekly anticipation, because as I'm washing dishes before we tape these things, I'm like, man, I can't wait.

I know. I can't wait. Yeah, I'm excited. And guys, we watch these right before. we film our podcast. I mean, that's how we do it. It's not like, oh, watch it sometime this week. Like, we are sitting down, watching them together and rolling right into taping for you. So I hope that you'll watch along with us. In fact, maybe we should do a live watch sometime. Like an Instagram live watch right before we film our podcast or something. Let's do that.

Well, we're going to practice our live events. And I'm really excited about the live event that we have coming up for OTH Day. I hope we get a ton of fan questions. Yeah. I think. we should all coordinate our outfits. Oh, yes. Yeah, what are you guys wearing? I don't know what to wear. I don't either. I'm excited to see you in person, though.

That's going to be really fun. Me too. So exciting. Yeah. All right. So you guys, get your tickets to that. Watch episode 12. So that way we're all on the same page next week.

Bye, everybody. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queen's at I. iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school

drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It may look different, but Native culture is alive. Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Thank you.