Drama Queens - Twin Peaked w/ Sheryl Lee • EP310

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

Special guest Sheryl Lee aka Ellie Harp joins the Drama Queens!! Hilarie shares how Sheryl saved her and played an instrumental role in her career.Sheryl knew the fate of Ellie from the beginning and assumed Hilarie knew as well… wait until you hear the truth!!Plus, Joy shares a story of a lunch date she had this week which opens up the floodgates of what’s a friendship? and what’s a date? and why can’t we just have one set of rules for everyone?!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Wow. Hey everybody. What a weird episode.

Everyone just exhales a lot of flashbacks. That wasn't even like a real episode. That was just a bunch of flashbacks kind of super glued together with some weird expository filler. Yeah. It was in there. It was very strange. It feels like somebody looked at the board for what's happened so far in the season and what needs to happen and went, oh, shit. How are we? It's too many bridges. And they were like, I know, we can make a bunch of things make sense if we just tell people all these things happened.

And also, we'll freeze frame constantly. Freeze frame. What was that? What was that? Remember that song? Oh, my God. I'm dating myself. All right, this was Season 3, Episode 10, Brave New World.

It originally aired January 11th, 2006, which makes sense, because this would have been like the episode that comes back after midseason. Yeah. So our midseason break would have happened last episode with Nathan and Haley getting back together and with Broken Lucas getting back together. Big cliffhangers. Peyton just crying all by herself. And then we come up.

back with this madness. The day after Brooke says those three magic words to Lucas, he gets in a car with Peyton to take a road trip to visit Ellie, and then Peyton makes Ellie an offer that could bring them closer together. Meanwhile, Lucas reconnects with an old friend, which was lovely, but super random. And then back in Tree Hill, Brooke's clothing line, clothes over bros becomes an overnight hit, and she asks literally everybody to help out. Plus, Nathan finds out the truth about his mother and her role in the fire that almost killed Dan. That was dramatic. In a scene that was so badly written that we just didn't know what to do with ourselves.

Honestly, James and Barbara did, I think they did a great job with that, with what they could do with that material. They leaned in, they committed so hard, and that is not easy when you get a scene that could either be filler on Days of Our Lives or CSI. You're like, who's show? Who show is this? Joy, when you said that, I cackled. You go, what is this an episode of CSI?

It was perfect. First, I had to crush the pills. Then I had to write the letter. The last thing that was left to do was seal the bottle. And third, I had to light the fire. It's worth saying, I usually like this writer. You know, not everybody can run every time. I mean, it's not the end of the world.

But, you know, just because this writer's name is on the script, doesn't mean that's a person that actually wrote it. Like, sometimes it's like the last person to put a polish on it. So in season three, a lot of times what happens on shows, regardless of how successful, successful, sex-exful, a show is, is that your original writers start peeling off and they get pilots of their own or they get jobs on other shows and you start bumping newbies up. And so sometimes scripts like this were like, was this a new kid? Was this someone getting their first go? So we want to be gentle while also poking a lot of fun at it because it was dreadful. Well, listen, before we get too far into this, something happened to me this week. Okay, okay, okay.

I have to talk about this. You guys, we just need you to know the willpower of our friend Joy because we got on as we always do to watch the episode and we start, you know, cackling about dumb things we've done this week and Joy goes, oh, I have a story to tell the two of you. And we go, okay, and she goes, I'll save it for the episode.

She made us wait. She made us wait a whole hour. She's been an hour. An hour. Okay. What happened? Hit us. I'm standing in line for lunch to order lunch and I have the menu in my hand and I hear

what are you going to get? stop look up and there is like a six foot five or more lumberjack looking slightly disheveled crystal blue-eyed what sweet man staring down at me okay and I'm like I'm like uh I don't know I think I'm going to get their whatever wrap and uh you know oh yeah this plays pretty good blah blah blah he strikes up a conversation and he's can I look at the menu yeah yeah it takes and we start, how's your day going? Oh, I say, my day's going great, actually. How about you? Oh, it's great. You know, like, blah, blah, blah. He starts launching into this whole story about how he's just bought this new property. I was like, oh, great, where are you from? So it turns out

we've actually lived in several of the same places. And I've moved around a lot. So it's just kind of cool that we've, you know, lived in several of the same places. And we're talking and as he keeps talking about this property that he just bought and, you know, a couple of companies that he owns. And he's super charming and really sweet and I'm thinking yeah I'm gonna ask this guy to join me for lunch yeah you are and he gets up to the register he pays for his food and he turns around and before I can say it he goes hey you want to eat and I'm like yeah yeah all right is this a movie okay okay I'm like great so total meat cute so I go sit down I get my food I get my well I get my little placard and I go we go sit down and and so we start talking and it

It's easy conversation. Like, this guy is, he's interested and smart and tells him we're talking about architects. We're talking about philosophers. We're talking about traveling. And it's just like, God, this is so nice. And he's an ex-athlete. I have to remind myself to breathe while you're doing this. Yeah, Joy, we are baited breath right now.

It's so interesting. Like, I'm just, I'm at this table in, I'm there, and I'm interested. It's so nice. And we just have this great. chat and he's like mid-40s and I'm just going, God, is this real? Like, wow, how amazing. And as he's talking toward the end of the meal, and we were sitting there for like an hour, toward the end of the meal, he's saying something about this business venture and the property. And he says the word we a couple of times. And I've already talked about, but the first sentence

I say out of my mouth is like, yeah, my daughter and I just moved here, blah, blah, blah, or whatever. And so I'm thinking, oh, does he have a kid? Oh, that's weird. He didn't, he would have said that. And then I'm like, well, he's talking about his pets a lot. Like, sometimes I talk about my pets like we or maybe it's a business partner or like maybe his mother lives with them. And there's a part of me that's like, maybe he's got a girlfriend and it's going south. Yeah. And like, I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that, but, you know, I'm going to give him a little space. So I didn't want to ask because the thing is, if I ask, who's we? It puts me in the position of A, I give him my cards of him knowing that I'm interested.

So, and I just don't, I like to, they need to work a little harder than that for me. So I just was like, I didn't say anything, you know. But he gives me the Instagram handle for the website of this property, like, farm thing. Oh, by the way, he lives on a farm. He bought a farm. Oh, my God. It's like a dream. I mean, I'm dying.

It's a dream. I'm dying, you guys. And so he gives me, he's like going to turn it into a retreat property and Airbnb and all this stuff. And here's the Instagram handle. Go look at it. I'm like, okay, great. He gives me his number. I give him.

My number, we leave. No. He texts me afterwards, you know, this is me, nice to meet you. And I'm like, yeah, great to know you. So then I go look at the Instagram handle later on. I'm like scrolling and I see, it's like all these beautiful pictures of nature and great stuff. And I see one photo of him with this girl.

And they look kind of cozy, but it's from like a little bit ago. So I'm like, oh, maybe it's, you know, maybe that's an ex-girlfriend or something. So I click on the picture and I do the clickety clicks, you know, to see me too. Yes, we've got people. We have to. This man. Is married? Stop.

No. This man is engaged. No, not for long. Not when she hears this. All I'm saying. Engaged. Yeah. Yeah. And engaged.

I'm just like, but like from like, yeah. Like there's still, it's all happening. Like there's new posts about the place and it's like all the new, you know, we bought this place and we're so excited and blah, blah, blah. Joy, you know every engaged chick is going through her fiance's phone. She better. If this motherfucker has Joy Lenz's number in his phone, he is dead.

So I call my friend Eric Palladena. Hillary, you know Eric. Of course I do. You and Jeff know Eric Palladena. Guys, Eric Palladina, the reason I called Eric, he's on Marvelous Mrs. Maisel for any of you, you guys who are watched that show. Eric is from Yonkers. And he's the most direct, just deeply, deeply masculine. Like, I don't know how else to say it.

He's just such a dude. He's a real guy's guy, man. So I was like, if anybody's going to understand the male psyche, this is the guy I'm going to call. So that's why I texted him and I was like, here's what's up. And I told him what happened. And he was like, Joy, no man is going to stand in line and start talking to you and have a strike up a conversation and then ask you to lunch just to be friends. That's not a thing. And especially if he's engaged, the first words out of his mouth should have been my fiancé.

and I blah, blah, blah, blah. Because then you know. And I'm like, yeah, that's it. And that's it. Because then I would know. Then you would know. And then they could have been your new city friends. Totally.

That was not this man's intention. I cannot wait to see who this. He was trying to get away with something, man. And he was bad, like, I'm sorry if you're battling yourself. I get it. Like, whatever. You're having a moment. Yeah, but don't make me a casualty of your battle.

That's it. Honestly, it hurt. I was like, I spent the whole day kind of being like excited and like, oh, I met this guy. And he liked me. and he thought it was cute and like asking you are cute so sweet you are very cute and then like oh you're engaged what well it's bad behavior you're so cute that someone is ready to firebom their life to have lunch with you how about that that's how cute you are but but okay so here's the next part

so eric tells me he's like no no just them and i'm like okay fine i'm never going to hear from this guy again he was having a weird moment and whatever he texts me stop it two days later no he did not sends me a text a voice note hey i was just thinking about you and like you know you're i know you're looking out tile and uh and i just anyway hope you're having a great day so i write back i am having a great day hey are you engaged and he writes back yes with a bunch of exclamation points and then he says are we too attracted to each other to be friends what is this tom Let's just say, like, you guys in our listening audience, like, you guys know I don't air dirty laundry.

Like, I never talk about. No, but this one's got in common. But this is, Easton, our male. Oh, no. Yeah, Easton. Yeah, he's like, wow, I can't, like, it's unreal. You guys, our chat right now is blowing up. Our chat. People are screaming. And no, and it really blew me away because I just totally misjudged him, right? I told you my picker's bad. Like, I thought this guy was really sweet. No, no, boss. No, you didn't try. You didn't try. to pick. He came and picked on you. So undo that. This is not your fault. Yeah. So I said, you know what? I didn't want to get into it. I just said, yes. We, yes, we are too attracted to each other. And I said, but good luck. And stop asking pretty girls to lunch. Yes. You know,

I put a little smiley face like, I'm going to be nice about this, but you're, you know that was a dick move. Dick. Yeah. And he writes back. The response is. No, no, no. Whatever. If I had a nickel for every time I was hit on, I wouldn't have to work. And then he says something about I know. I'm losing my mind. What? And then he said something about, I figured

it's the same for you, so you'd appreciate the sentiment. We just, you know, it just gets overlooked and then we become friends anyway. But I wasn't expecting a lunch, like what we had, like I wasn't expecting us to connect that much. And so I totally get it. This chemistry is undeniable.

Mm-hmm. But like, okay, here's what my real problem here is that, A, he's, he's convincing, first of all the response of like, whatever, oh, blah, blah, blah, I get hit on all the time. How about take up? The answer is, you're right. I totally was trying to get away with something. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm sorry.

That was unfair to you and totally unfair to my fiancee. And I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm sorry. That's the answer. That's the only answer. That's the only answer. Yeah.

I need you to send me this Instagram profile right now. Yeah, you are going to send us this farm Instagram joy when we get off on this. You need to gaslight me into thinking that I'm the one, like, sorry if you're not enlightened enough to just be friends with a handsome guy. Ew. Look off. Are you kidding me? I'm not that stupid.

Does he not have friends? You're the one that's new in town. Well, and by the way, and by the way, it's so deeply insulting and like I'm going to put my petty head on for a minute. I'm like, have you seen, have you seen the guy friends in our friend group? Like, sir, we have plenty of deeply attractive male friends. We only hang out with attractive people. Some of our closest people, like, that ain't it. That ain't it. Stop. Where are the men of honor? There is no honor in trying to get away with something like that. And then convincing yourself that you're not trying to get away with something.

Yeah, just own up to it. If he wasn't trying to get away with something, the first words out of his mouth would have been. If he found himself talking to a pretty girl and got caught up in it, you correct your course. You should meet my girlfriend. My fiance and I, blah, blah, blah, you should meet my girlfriend. Yeah. I think you guys would like each other so much. You're new here. She'll sit for an hour at lunch. That's brutal. And talk to me and get me thinking for two days and then text me without acknowledging, hey, I was talking to my girlfriend about your tile situation and she had some idea. Like, whatever. I just don't. don't try to get away with it and then act like you weren't and girls if a man does this to you it's bullshit it's gaslighting it's not okay

it is why older women all right this is a why women don't trust men so dan scott of him no but this is why we get more and more blunt as we get older because the next dude that comes up to in line you're just going to say are you engaged do you have a girlfriend like you're just going to say it and they're going to be like This chick's bananas. Yeah. But it's because. And you're like, I just don't have time. They.

Why are you wasting my time? Don't waste my time. Or tell me, just tell me that you're engaged. I would have had lunch with you anyway. Of course you would. It would have been a different lunch. I can't wait to see a picture of this fucking dude. I know.

He's doomed. He's doomed. That's what happens when you cross a drama queen friends. Yeah. Watch out. It may look different, but native people. culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly,

like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burnbridge. we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. We can segue out of that. I just had to tell you. But we guys, everybody out there, listen, we actually have something really much more exciting than my weird love life story. I don't know. I'm invested. I don't know. On this episode. We have an awesome guest. Hillary, I think you should be the one to introduce. Oh, my God, you guys. I'm going to cry at some point during the course of this. I feel really, really lucky that for the majority of season three, the love story that I got to have is between Peyton and. and her birth mother, Ellie. And the actress that played Ellie is the one and only Cheryl Lee.

She was with us today. I'm totally freaking obsessed with her, and I don't get to see her or talk to her nearly enough. So bring her in here. Give her to us. Cheryl? There she is. How have you not aged?

Cheryl? You look exactly the same. Oh, my gosh. Look, I'm so happy to see her. I miss you. Oh, huge hot for you. I miss you. You guys, so the last time we saw each other was the first time we'd seen each other since we weren't on the show together anymore.

It had been like, I don't know, 12 years. It had been a very long time. Yeah. And it was at the convention right before the pandemic hit. And I just remember you walking into the green room and I just started like sobbing uncontrollably. I turned into Peyton in real life. I was so happy to see you. It's good for my heart.

Where are you right now? I am in Topanga Canyon in Los Angeles. Nice. Amazing. Cheryl, do you know Daphne? Are you in Daphne's Uniga friends? I know she's out there in Topanga. I don't think I've ever met her.

Oh, that's fun. You guys would have had such good energy together on the show, too. She was on, she was Brooks' mom. It's so cool to see you two side by side here after having just watched that episode, too. We've always been gushing. Every time you're on screen, we gush about what an incredible actress you are and how much we all looked up to you before you came on the show and how excited we were when we heard that

we got you. It was like catching a big fish. We were so excited. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I was so grateful to be a part of it. Well, you were an original drama queen. You know, we like tongue and cheek names.

ourselves drama queens for this podcast because we were like, you know, we were kissing and crying for the better part of a decade and like it paid all our mortgages. But you as Laura Palmer on Twin Peaks, I mean, you were an original drama queen, this iconic teenage character that the country was obsessed with, you know, who killed Laura Palmer was like, that was the catchphrase. And yeah, so if you could tell our audience kind of about your trajectory, getting involved in that because that was like your first big job right yes i was living in seattle studying theater i hadn't really even thought about television or film and i but i had an agent in seattle and um you know just for commercial stuff or whatever and i got a call

from her that this director um david lynch was in town for this mysterious television pilot and was interested in casting local for um and it was the role of a dead girl and that's all anyone knew and so i went in i had seen blue velvets i went in which was shot in Wilmington yeah oh my gosh that's right yeah yeah man so much is is a lot still shooting in Wilmington now there's a ton but where our river court was is where they like found the ear in the field in blue velvet you know how like the movie begins and there's like an ear in a field it's over there where the river court was no way that's the crossover we needed is the blue velvet tree hill crossover i went to homoington alive in um the 90s for one oh wow yeah yeah so then um i just

i didn't know what to expect meeting him and i went in and i met him met david and um he was so kind and so warm, and I was so nervous that I, my hands were shaking so bad, I had to sit on the ones. Do you talk with your hands like we do? We all, like the three of us can't stop talking with our hands. Yeah, I was shaking like a leap, but he was kind and warm and asked me how I'd feel about being dipped in gray dye and plastic and freezing cold water. And I said, just absolutely fine. And then that's how it started. I was hired for,

I think it was four days of work as a corpse, you know, finding the body and then the flashback scenes. And then I stayed in Seattle and kept doing theater. And then much later, he called and asked if I would be interested in coming back on the show. And I said, well, sure. She has a sister.

I'm dead. He's like, don't worry about that. I'll figure it out. Wow. That was my first grown-up show I remember watching. I remember, like my dad was watching it.

And I don't know how it was probably like, I actually have no idea how old I was. But I remember it being like, I don't, I think this show is too grown up for me, but I can't stop watching it. This is so interesting. It had a real,

real impact on probably my whole macabre outlook on many things well it was definitely the show that like goth girls were into and being a goth girl in high school was like man if you're not watching Twin Peaks if you're not like freaking out over Twin Peaks what are even doing with your life what are you listening to boy bands

ew what are you listening on the block get out of here and so you ended up doing how many seasons of the show did you guys do of Twin Peaks two so there were only two

seasons originally. Wow. I think they just did not know what to do with us. Wow. And then that ended and then years later the movie came and then that ended and then 20 something years later the season three came. Well, talk about the movie though because Moira, who was Karen on our show, was in the movie with you, right? Yes. Yes. And I actually had worked with Moira before that even. Really? The movie every week together when we were I mean I was right out of Twin Peaks it was like one of my first jobs

off of the second season of Twin Peaks I worked with Moira so when I heard Moira was coming onto the film I was so excited because we already had this history and I loved her I'm just a big fan of her so she's a good time

and then you also worked with Craig who on our cast didn't you work did you work with? Did you work with Haltrow? Hanson, too? I don't think so. I mean, you know, it's, um, sometimes I forget what I worked on. Yeah.

Yeah. We know that. When I was rewatching the show, um, this show last night and I was seeing you all. And it's like my heart just burst open because, um, you're so young. And I know what it feels like to be. to have to go through, you know, you're on a show and this is happening and you're at this really important time in your own life, figuring things out, and then you're on this show and that becomes a success. And like there's no handbook that comes with this, right? You're just

kind of going with it. And it just, oh, I wish we'd had the wherewithal to ask you for advice when you were that age. God. When I was your age, when I was your age, you know, when I was your that was one thing, I would find older actors and I would follow them around like a puppy because I was like, I don't know anything, nothing. I need to learn as much as I can. How do you have a life while you do this? You know, what happens when you work with directors that terrify you? You know, all of the questions, I was probably really annoying because I just would,

and I still am that way where I'm. I will seek out elders to, for guidance. How do you walk this path? That's a great quality because I think we all felt like we have to act like we have it all together because, you know, if we don't act like we have it all together, then no one will trust us. And then if nobody trusts us, we won't be able to do our job right. And then we won't be able to stand up for ourselves.

And so we have to be taken seriously. And in order to be taken seriously, we just have to act like we know everything. It was just so dumb. And the grownups that were around us regularly were scary. A lot of that. You know, not our co-worker, lovely friends, but like we had some, we had some people around, we were very quickly, we were like, oh, no, we don't, we don't want to be, we can't. We got to, we're going to hide out.

We're going to hide. And so, interestingly, I think it made us less, I don't know if the word is aware or perhaps it made us feel like we had less wherewithal our permission to then when someone like you was around to, to go. and, you know, trust you or seek your advice. Like, and I think that was probably pretty subconscious. But now even just- I was just scared.

Yeah, I was nervous all the time. And so you don't want to like do something dumb or be like, how was your, what was it like we're going on twin hitcher? Like just a bunch of derpy little puppies. And now I'm like, damn it, we should have just followed you around and been annoying. I am in awe of you all now because the way that you. are so multifaceted creatively and speaking your truth and connecting and and following what you believe to be true, I did not have the guts to do that at all. And so I bow to you with great

respect and gratitude. I'm like, thank God these, this generation has the courage to stand up in a way that I know I didn't in mine. Well, I didn't realize how similar our situations were, Cheryl, because we were filming in Wilmington, where we were all, like, taken away from our friends and our family and kind of the circles that we built and kind of put in this little small bubble, and you guys being in Seattle, filming this show that was like a sensation and a huge hit,

did you feel protected by that bubble, or did you feel like more stuff could, more things could get away you know people get away with things well we so um the pilot was shot up there in Washington but then um at some point a lot of the series was shot in LA oh it was really remember the exact timeline yeah yeah and so um I had no idea what I was in for because I had no television experience no film experience no experience no experience being in front of the public eye. And so then, like I remember watching the pilot and the series in L.A.

That's when I was living in L.A. when it started to come out. So we were shooting down here. We had studios in the Valley. Oh, okay. So, yeah, in that sense, the only bubble that I had was just that I didn't know anything. you're like totally experienced and I'd no idea

unfortunately you know social media didn't exist oh my god I don't know now you you saved my ass

because when we were doing I want to say it's maybe even the next episode it's when Ellie is like moved in with Peyton I was up for a job where there was mandatory nudity and you had

your son at the time and I was just so enamored with that that you were this like working mom and you would like tell me about your son's dreams and the phone calls you would have with him and I loved hearing about this and I feel like you told me like your son really like snakes you know

like there's certain things that just pop and we talked about your kids so much that when I was like I'm up for this job they really want me to be naked in it and you were just like don't do it you're like you're going to have to

talk to him about it one day, your son. And at the time, I was years away from having kids, you know, and I was just like, oh, God, I never thought about that. Like, I never thought about the people in my future I'd have to have these conversations with. And it really changed the way I made decisions and the way I prioritized jobs. And it made me reconsider, like, which jobs were artsy and which job, you know, because they were, there was kind of this schick with women where they'd be like, well, if you're a real artist, you'll, you'll do all the things we want you to do. And you called bullshit on it for me at a very young age and made me feel empowered to be like, I don't know, sounds like a low budget movie to me.

You guys can go f*** yourself. Maybe if this was Titanic. Yeah. Pay me like a French girl, but also pay me. Yeah. I learned that one the hard way. I didn't have anyone tell me to think about that or to. And also, I, you know, a lot of the jobs I did, I didn't feel like there was a choice.

It was like, yeah, I would work as an actor or as an actress, this is, this is what you do. And within that, there are parameters of, you know, what the audience sees is what you did say yes to, not what you said no to. But, yeah. So I would do a lot of things different if I could go back and die. But even in like during that era, it was still really normal to not have a choice. You know, like if you wanted to do a show on HBO or cable, we all were presented with that. It was like, oh, that was part of the contract. If you want to be on a big girl show, you got to, you know, bear all.

And you were so protective of us, even in the midst of all of that when it was still. really, really prevalent. I feel like it only now, like just only recently in the last year or two is where you can be like, no, and then they just hire a body double. So it looks like you were naked anyway. I feel like a lot of that changed with sex in the city because all those girls, like, what's her name? Kim Cottrell was the only one on that show who was ever naked on camera.

Yeah, I think so. Cynthia Nixon was too. Cynthia Nixon was. Okay. But the other two weren't. And, you know, you're on a show. called Sex and the City, and it's all about girls and there's young women in their sex lives. And two of the lead actresses who were very famous already at the time did not have to

be nude in the show ever. And I don't know how Sarah Jessica worked that into her contract or Kim Davis, but not Kim Davis. What's her name? I'm sorry. Kristen Davis. Chris and Davis. Yeah. But yeah, but I think when that happened and it would be, it said an example of like, look, if Sarah Jessica Parker can lead a show called Sex in the City all about sex and never have to be nude on camera, I think the rest of us can figure it out. Yeah. We can certainly do a teen drama.

And it also made it so easy to be like, yeah, people have sex and bras guys. Moving on. Remember what everyone is having sex and brags? Sex and bras. Is that the name of our episode? That's it. Yeah. It should be.

Oh, my God. It's like that movie driving in cars with boys, but it's having sex on TV and bras. Let's write that memoir. Great. Cheryl, how did they come to you for our show? Yeah, how did we get you? Yeah, I don't know. They just someone, all I remember is knowing that there was an arc

and knowing that it was a limited amount, which was good because that's all I could do with my son being young and because I was living in L.A. and it was shot there. And so I just remember going in to talk to Mark about the character, and I was really interested in the character, and I was interested in the show. And that was kind of all I remember about it, of just feeling like, yeah, this, I'm really excited about this. It's such an interesting character, because to play a woman who is coming, you know, you've got the layer of dying, you've got the layer of coming, of having given up your child for adoption. and never seen her for years and years. I mean, how old Peyton were you? 17.

Was Peyton when, no, when Ellie, it was at birth, right? Like you were right, you, right, okay. And then you're, you've come back, but you're still kind of aloof and don't like totally want to, it's like you want to be in her life, but as soon as Peyton reaches out, you're like, ah, I don't get too close.

It's so interesting and so many layers to play. What do you remember about that? and what were your challenges there? Well, I, you know, it's a, I remember just feeling so grateful for our connection, you know, I loved you right away. That's how I felt. I'm just like, okay, this is great. I can anchor into this relationship and all the complexities here and just feeling that instant,

you know, that's always such a gift to just have that instant chemistry. And, you know, it's before, before I became a mother, my memories about my work experiences were about my work experience. And after I became a mother, my memories about my work experience changed to what were the complexities of life going on behind the scenes of the work experience, the traveling back and forth, the time. the times that my son got to come visit while I was there working, you know, those are the things that it becomes more about what was going on in life. And also just also where I remember just that I did feel very grateful for the complexities of the character. that as a woman and as an actress, just always trying to find parts that were multifaceted.

You know, that that part of it, I really appreciate it. And everyone was so nice there. You all, you know, everyone was in awe. Like, you showed up, it was like, the cool girls here. Oh, my God. She's so cool. I remember one time a hurricane, was coming when I was trying to figure out how to fly home

and I remember just sitting there watching in like the restaurant bar or something in the city watching going as the hurricane is coming in on the news which you all probably dealt with that all the time. Totally normal. Yeah, we have hurricane parties. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So did you always know that Ellie was going to die? always like, yes. Yeah. This is... Really? Because see, I didn't, Cheryl. I didn't.

And they kind of led me on to be like, oh, you've had to kiss all the boys on the show already. You know, like, this is going to be your new trajectory. You get to go do this other thing. And so then when you... Sorry, spoiler alert for anybody who's watching along with us and hasn't caught up. When Ellie dies, I was despondent.

Like, no one could talk sense into me. They were like, Hillary, it's okay. And I'm like, but she's going to come back from the dead, right? Like, maybe she's got a sister on this show, too. How do we get Cheryl back? And it was- Wow. So I wonder, that's interesting that we never...

They never told me. I don't say anything or... Wow. Yeah. I was ready for you to stay forever. Aww. And ever. And then eventually we meet Peyton's birth father.

John Doe, who is from the band X, the punk band out in L.A. And I just feel like it's such a missed opportunity that our parents, like, my parents were never in the same place at the same time. Sophia, did your parents ever, like, get into the same place at the same time? Did your dad ever arrive? Yes. The Brooke's dad, so, you know, we get Daphne playing my mom, playing Victoria in season five. So you got to do all that overlap.

Gregory Harrison? Robert Davis, Jr., who went by Ted. I've never understood why Ted is a nickname for Robert, but someone can explain it to us at another time, was played by a lovely actor, Richard Burgey, Hillary. You didn't get to meet him. Would I have kissed? I had a crush on all the dads.

Oh, 100%. You would have had such a crush on Richard. He was such a dreamboat. I had a crush on him. Him and Gregory Harrison. They played Brooke and Julian's dads. And I was like, we won the dad jackpot. What is going on here?

That sent me back to soap opera days because I would look at the two of them. That's what all the men on soap operas looked like. And I was just like, I'm just going to stare at you. Gorgeous. Richard? I'm looking at my, I'm looking at my telephone right now. And, God, what a lovely man. And he and Daphne played off of each other deliciously.

Their chemistry was so great. The three of us just had a ball. I really wish we'd had him on the show before the last season because he was wonderful. Cheryl, we have gotten a lot of closure and redemption and also like a lot of fun by doing this like podcast, reboot, rewatch situation. But you guys did that with Twin Peaks years ago. Like, you guys all got together again. How many years after the original show to do this reboot? Well, it was almost 25 years.

That's amazing. Wow. 25 years. Wait, was it on this 25 years? Wait a minute. Like how old? You're like math is dumb. 55.

And I think that we did season three around six years ago or seven years ago. And I was like, 2017, you guys did. And I was like, and it was like 92 when we did. Wow. 25 years. How was getting that call? Who called? Did David Lynch call or like how'd that go down?

Well, it was, you know, there's been rumors for decades that we were going to do seasons. And we knew that was not going to happen. So I didn't pay any attention to the rumors. And so then these rumors started happening that seemed to not kind of quiet. It's like the wave of the rumor just kept getting bigger. finally one of the castmates reached out to me and said you know this is real I said there's no way so I I sent it David an email and asked is this this real wow and did he answer did he send back like a coded message or something weird I feel like he sent like a hot air balloon or something

it was a little bit cryptic it was a little bit mysterious it was a yes but not really any more to come. I'm into that. So what was your experience shooting in Wilmington before? You'd been there so many times before. Yeah. Did it feel familiar going back or was it new? I loved Wilmington.

I loved working there so much. So I had stayed, I can't even remember the jobs that I did there. They were independent films. I had stayed once in one of those beach houses. Oh, yeah. It's amazing. and then also downtown. So I loved that feeling of that,

I felt like creatively it really fed the work. Whatever the work that I was doing was, I found it to be, I really enjoyed it creatively. You know, there's history there, there's a lot of interesting different parts to that place. It's a really artistic town, too. There's so much theater. There's so many fine arts, communities, and music.

Yeah, I love that. And just the feeling of the sort of smaller city feeling that was really nice to be in. Well, and there's a weirdness to Wilmington. You know, there's kind of like a, because it's such a haunted city, there's like a little bit of like a cryptic feel to it. And Ellie is kind of a cryptic. woman. You know, she's living in this like dilapidated Victorian home with no furniture and like a lot of... She doesn't even have a glass to drink out of. Yeah, there's like a lot of echo. She drinks right out of carton. Yeah. Like this'll do. There's like roaches everywhere and high grass. No, but it, you know,

there's an edge to this character that I think was great because so often women are portrayed as martyrs. they're playing mothers. You know, everyone wants the martyr. And Ellie's just like, no, I chose a fun life. I made the choice that was right for me. Like, I'm not going to apologize for it, you know, which was great. And kind of revolutionary at the time. Yeah. Yeah. How'd you put it together at a time where not everyone was doing that? Well, I feel like they, they, the writers did did the work. Do you know what I mean? That that was there. And so to really just, um, and fortunately I had known many women in my life who didn't just follow, um, the supposed dues or, or, you know, and so I had references, you know, personal references that I could

draw from and that that kind of directness and just inner knowing and just that life experience. There's something I don't think the writers did though. They didn't, to me, some of Ellie's behavior was really

contrasting, you know, showing up and wanting to be a part of Peyton's life and begging to be a part of it. And then when Peyton comes to find her, pushing her away and then coming back. And that the push and pull, that's just on the page. And making it believable, creating a character that you had to justify that behavior for you so that you could empathize with her and then play, you know, play her. That's, that's not anything the writers did. That's you. And I'm interested to know how you justified all that behavior for her in order to make her someone that we didn't hate, like we loved her. We empathized along with her as well, even though she was

feeling all these complicated things. Yeah, and now I look at the way she treated her daughter and I'm like, wow, that's intense. Get out. I remember hearing, you know, from one of my acting teachers at a very young age that if you can find the love under all that, right, that if it's, if it's because of the love underneath it, then it's, then I could find as a mother a way to justify it, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, everybody just sort of does what they think is best. And usually you, I can understand how you would be doing those things, thinking that it's best for Peyton

and thinking that you're willing to hurt yourself for the sake of her, even though she doesn't understand. Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting from Ellie anyway. Of all the storylines that Peyton had to do, the one that I get the most fan feedback from is this one, because there are a number of people out there who have lost a parent to cancer, and this storyline, as messy as it is, you know,

as like back and forth as it is, as conflicted as it is, has been cathartic for a lot of people. And I feel like when I saw you at the convention, you mentioned that people come up and or have talked to you about it and been like, thank you so much for doing this storyline. Has that been your experience often?

Yeah. If I'm ever recognized for this, it is usually with someone who has experience with cancer. You know, and I wish there were more stories out there about this for children and parents. And, you know, I feel like that's part of, as storytellers, that's part of our responsibility is to really keep bringing these stories into the awareness for healing. and through the conversation. So people feel seen and known and there's something,

somebody else is going through this too. I'm not alone. Yes. Well, you don't think about, like, how old were we doing this? 23, 24? You don't think about it on the day. But then like all these years later,

you realize you're providing other people with the language and with the framework to deal with it in real life. Because if you don't have the right words, you know, if you don't have an example of, like, a person, whether they be real or fictional, living past a bad situation like this, you don't know what it looks like.

But if you can watch it and visualize it and be like, oh, no, we've lost this character and then life moves on as it does, but it is changed, you know. to give people a safe place to witness grief, I think can also be very transformational because when you go through loss, it's so personal. It's often very private. When you're grieving, you tend to stay home. It's insular. And so it's not something in our society we've been able to witness a lot of. It's very private and personal. And hearing about the ways in which a storyline like this one for an audience can model how hard it will be to lose somebody, but also that they will remain with you in ways, that you will carry on a project that you began with them before they died, as Peyton does, that you will honor them in parts of your life. And yes, you will be, if you are, if we are lucky enough to survive someone, and I don't mean we're lucky that we've lost someone, I mean like, we're lucky we're alive. We're all lucky we're alive every day. You know, if you're lucky enough to continue living your life, you can do it in a way where you carry that person with you. And yeah, like, when had we ever seen that before? We got to see you guys do it in a storyline. It was beautiful.

Cheryl I love that I was so sad when you left and then I left the show and hooked up with Jeff and then the first job he does right when I gave birth to Gus like Gus was like two months old

he's like oh my buddy Cheryl's doing this movie with me I was like Cheryl who he's like you don't know or Cheryl Lee and I'm like she's my mother but you guys have known each other like forever and that was such a weird it was the universe's way of being like Hillary you didn't misread the connection like this is someone who is absolutely like supposed to be in your world

it's good to love her I was so happy that you guys just like randomly were in this movie together but again you were playing like a bad girl is that your schick does everyone cast you to play like a drunky pants yeah or I die yeah I was trying to go over the other day how many times I had died. I die all the time too, Cheryl. You do? Everything I'm in, they kill me off. I'm like, what is it?

Do you hate me or am I just like so lovely that to kill me is so tragic for the story? I'm going to try and believe the second one, but I'm going to break everybody's heart. Oh, my God. And all different kinds of ways of dying, right? Yes, always. Yeah, haven't you done like a vampire movie? Yeah. Oh, God.

I had the life sucked out of me. Yeah, what about you? Let's talk about that. What's been your favorite on-screen death? Of all the things that you've passed in, what's been the winner? You know, I mean, it kind of probably is Twin Peaks, but it wasn't the, it was probably more just the experience of being able to, you know, that first scene being found on the beach wrapped in plastic.

I didn't have any lines, thank God, because I was so nervous, and I didn't know anything about filmmaking or television or anything. And so I got to just lay there and listen to everyone and feel like a little sponge and soak it all up. So great. Yeah, taped up in my plastic. Well, yeah, but back to Hillary's question, is that sort of your typical go-to people cast you as the bad girl a lot?

And is there anything that you're still just like dying to do? well no one thinks i mean i've never i don't think i've ever done a comedy i don't think i've ever really oh yeah i mean unless it would be maybe be a really really dark it's a dark comedy yeah yeah and i would love to do you know i played a vampire at one point but i would also love to do something really kind of fantasy like like i've never oh yeah oh yeah me too right like lord of the rings Like Pans Labyrinth, like something really weird. Should we all do the Witches of Eastwick? Is that what this podcast is really about?

Sure, let's just be witches. Hello. As long as we can fly. Oh, great. And we have special powers. Come on. I like reading about Appalachian witches because what they would do is at night, they would shape shift and then they turn men into horses and ride them all night long

around the countryside. So when these men woke up, they were like, couldn't go to work. They had the vapors. I've been ridden by a witch all night. And I'm just like, I feel like this is a lot of innuendo. We're going to be some creepy witches, Cheryl. I can't wait. Dawn.

Somebody give us some money. Yeah. One Tree Hill, 25 years later, just like Twin Peaks, is now a supernatural experience. Oh, my God. What do we have? What do we have seven years to go or something? We can, we'll figure it out. I'm all for it.

Cheryl, the only thing that I took from the show when I left was Ellie's leather jacket. It is my prize possession. Oh, fantastic. I keep it in a safe space. My son steals all my coats because he's my size now. And I'm just like, don't touch that one. That's the special one. But I hope I get to see you in real life soon.

we've got more conventions and stuff coming up but you're such an important part of this show and you were a really, really, really important part of my time on the show and you know that. Well, I am very, very grateful to have been a part of the show and it just warms my heart to see all your beautiful faces and smiles and congratulations on everything you're doing and just tons and tons of love and gratitude to me.

Yay, we need to do a mommy daughter trip with all of our mothers from the show and all the girls from the show. Oh, my God, yes. Best Armstrong, Cheryl Lee, Daphne Zuniga. Let's go. And Moira and Barbara and let's hit the road. Let's hit the bar. Oh, we love seeing you. Thank you so much for coming and joining you.

Thank you so much, Cheryl. Thank you all so much. Oh, I love her. Wow. That was awesome. I've got no childhood dream come true. No, she's amazing. I can't believe you held your tears back.

That was incredible. Like, she just makes me, it's not that I'm nervous. It's not that I'm nervous. It's that I just get, like, giddy about her and geek out so hard because I get it. Oh, I wanted to keep her so bad. If we've gotten to keep Cheryl, oh, my God. It would have been so. It probably wouldn't have packed the same punch, though.

No. It was so great. Like she was so iconic because the way she came in and, I mean, this character was so iconic because she came in and went out so quickly but made such a huge impact. And only somebody of Cheryl's caliber and talent could have been able to handle that and make that happen. Well, and now I look at the part that she played and the fact that she was able to be like a mother and work out of talent on location. And I'm just like, when do I get to start playing Ellie's? Like, who's going to call me to play the Ellie harp character? And whatever, I mean, I don't even know what teenage shows are on right now.

That makes me sound like a grandma. I'm like, what are the kids watching these days? But yeah, those are the parts that are really fun as a mom to go in and, like, put the leather bracelet on and the cool concert tea. And you're not in the school pickup line for a couple days. And you're like, yeah. Yeah, I'm cool. I remember how to be cool.

She's so freaking cool. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It was interesting to me, too, that, like, as we are wondering, again, not perhaps inappropriately, but, like, we're learning things as bold women. And we don't love this seesaw that's happening with Lucas and Peyton and Lucas and Brooke. I forgot that in this episode, Brooke is upset that she's not hearing from Lucas all day, and Haley's not hearing from Nathan at all. And that misdirect was gold when you're like, what would make a boy? What would make a boy just leave a girl after a night?

And I was like, this comment, this is actually, in an episode this is not well written. This is great. Yeah, but not admitting it to each other. The friction of not knowing that the other person was going through the exact same thing. And then we were both angry and trying to solve our own problems without each other. Oh, it was great. I loved it. I also loved that at the end of the episode, when,

Nathan comes to the door. Like, there was something vulnerable on James's face, and I saw you see it and know that you had been sort of making up a story that wasn't true all day, and you just welcomed him in. Yeah. And the familiarity between those two, between Nathan and Haley, makes it work wordlessly. Yeah. Well, that's it.

There's no misdirect there. He just says, I wanted to spend some time with you, or can I hang out with you? Oh, that's such a relief. Right? The directness. Instead of Lucas, who's like, I got a thing to do with you, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Girls take a lesson. No. Misdirect, not hot. Not hot. It's, I mean, not to be. Also, men take a lesson. This is what I'm saying. Men in cafes.

You can't act like you're direct, but not be direct. You don't just like. Yeah. Be Nathan. Be Nathan. That's really the point, guys. Be a Nathan. I also loved in the way.

that everyone's love story is a little messy right now. I love the love story of Peyton and Ellie. Yes. And Peyton trying to find a way to talk to her. And Hillary, you did it so beautifully because you can tell that you don't really want to be totally vulnerable. So you make it about work. But then, like, you're hanging out and you're learning about the records she loves and she's talking about T-shirts and, like, your mom might give you a T-shirt from a tour. The mom giving her the t-shirt thing got me in real life. Like, that's my love language when someone gives me a thing that's theirs. And it's not like a new thing, you know?

And you both have done it. You both have given me things that you're just like, oh, do you want this thing? And I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah, I do. And there's kind of that like thrift store quality to it where it's like, this has collected a narrative before it's come to me. And the idea that Peyton is going to get these records of these t-shirts. from this woman to create an intimacy is, you know, hits a little close to home.

But I also, so much of our show is about whatever boy you're dating. Yeah. And it just meant, it meant so much to me to have a storyline that wasn't about a dude. Yeah. Yeah. I think it meant a lot to our audience as well. Because that's not, it's not literally everything everybody thinks about all the time. Like, yes, when you're young and hormonal.

you know, your romantic interests are at the forefront of your mind most of the time. But there are a lot of people, a lot of people have problems with their family and their siblings and with their parents and how they're doing in their school work. And that can be cut. That can take over at any moment. And it was really, really a relief to see that represented with, with Peyton and Ellie. Yeah. You know what's interesting you saying that?

I remember, and I wrote it down in my notes. When we started watching this episode, there's some stuff for the comedy that they gave Brooke that made me laugh. But it was so cringy. They would sometimes push me into these directions where I, as Sophia, would feel like they wanted Brooke to be mean or really tone deaf or like over the top. And it was very interesting because I remember feeling then like Brooke. finally launching her company and now she's just going to be awful to everyone and now I was

like so self-conscious about it but it's like okay this is what you've written for me and I'm going to commit and I'm going to try my best and I'm going to put her paranoia about losing her chance underneath it and try to humanize it and watching it for some reason now with with like distance I could hear it in a different way and I was like oh right I was like oh they wanted Brooke to be like the worst version of herself, the cheerleader that Faith is talking to Lucas about. So she was like, he's like, you know,

I'm not defending who Brooke was, I'm defending who she is. And then it comes in and she's like a banshee screaming at everyone, like running a sweatshop. I was like, oh my God, the children. The little children. But now I can see the comedic device in a way that at the time, I was like, why is she got to be mean

when she's finally doing something for herself? Oh, man. No, I loved it. I loved it. Not just for the comedic device, but also because, again, characters have to have flaws and to be able to see Brooke at her worst, being a mess, falling apart, like we said, messy, messy Brooke, and a big lovable mess. And then the second that Haley's like, hey, stop it, you're being a huge bitch. Be nice to people. Everybody here is busting their asses for you. And Brooke turns on a dime. And she says, you're right. there's a lot of people out there who don't. They get defensive. It's like it takes days or weeks or years before they'll even admit that they're wrong. And Brooke is like, oh, my God, you're right. And she turns immediately because she's not afraid.

She's not afraid of being wrong. That's kind of what's great about living a messy life, right? She's not afraid of being wrong. It's a good example of female friendship where you can call your friend out on something and it's not a fight that ends the relationship. We've talked about that a number of times. Where when someone tells you the truth, you realize, oh, you really love and respect me. Yeah.

And that's the best example. Thank you. I would way rather watch somebody who's being a huge, huge ass suddenly go, oh, my God, I'm being such an asshole right now. I'm so sorry, everybody. I'm really sorry. That's great. You know, it's like we're only human.

That's the best. What else can we expect? I would much rather watch that than somebody who's just like a jerk for no reason and then never admits they're wrong. Dan Scott? Dan Scott? Are we talking about Dan Scott? Yeah.

How about Dan walking into Haley and Nathan's bedroom? That was so, picking up for a second. Picking up her bra. That, no. Picking up a teenage girl's bra and talking about a one-night stand. It's like it wasn't sexual. It's all power for him. It's like it has nothing to do with him trying to be like creepy, pervy.

He wasn't being pervy. He was being his normal power-hungry self and in any way that he could diminish someone else and make them feel insecure and humiliated. That's what the picking up the bra was. But regardless, it's still disgusting. Well, and then to say, at least Peyton was pleasant in the morning. Ew. Just to remind you.

So gross. It's petty in a way that, like, no adult should be this petty. And stealing the note? Like, he swipes Nathan's handwritten note to her. What are you, seven? Yeah. Yeah, I need Dan to like, I liked it when Dan and Karen got flirty in future episodes because Dan without that glimmer of redemption is a tough pill to swallow. But Dan, if I, if I'm always on the verge of being like, hmm, it's just a more fun Dan to me.

Yeah, yeah. Could I kiss him? Could I have an hour long lunch with him before finding out he's engaged? Honestly You went on a lunch date with Dan Scott That's what happened to you Joy Oh my God joy It's so frustrating He was so nice and handsome and like sweet

And clearly he knows it He's running for mayor I will never get over A grown ass man texting you Well if I had a nickel for every time I got hit on by a woman Excuse me I know he wasn't be like and I think knowing this guy's tone, he was like, oh, whatever.

If I had a guy, I thought it was blah, blah, blah. Like, I think that's what he was going for. But it's just, like, I hope he read it back after he sent it and was like, ooh. Yeah. That didn't read very much. Yeah, I really hope he made himself feel queasy because he made me feel sick to my stomach. He's, like, in bed with his fiance, babe, babe, look at his text. Does this come off weird?

Does this come off weird? I look at this girl, and I think she got the wrong idea. It's like she thought I asked her out or something because I asked her to have a meal with me. Idiot. No, guys, I'm just not enlightened enough. I'm not enlightened enough to just be friends. When we talk about...

Pour gasoline on yourself and just light it on fire for him. When we talk about Tree Hill voters and how it's possible that Dan Scott was able to charm a town into not understanding he's a sociopath, this is what I'm going to envision. Like, in line at lunch, asking pretty girls to sit. with him and then be like... Have a meal with me.

Why did you misinterpret this? What's your problem? I'm just trying to get to know my constituents. Yes, yes. Barf. Yeah. Barf. Yeah.

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we need to spin a wheel, ladies? Yes, we sure do. Let's spin that wheel. Yeah. Okay, we got a most likely to re-gift something gifted to them.

I mean, okay, on the show, Dan's cut. Well, I'm not going to say Whitey. I feel like, you know how teachers always get shitty gifts at the end of the year? Like, how many mugs does a teacher really need? You know? Yeah. Like Whitey's the kind of guy that's just like, here, take this thing. I don't want this.

I think it's Haley. Really? I think it's Haley. Oh my God, do tell. I think it's like the one. It's like something she could get away with that's not wrong. Right. It's a minor.

You know what I mean? It's just a slight, like, and it's like nobody's going to know. And she can just like slightly pass it on. No big. Well, actually, isn't it, Brooke? this episode that gives away all her CDs. And she's like, that was a really nice thing to do with my things. With my CDs.

You know what? I can see Brooke doing it majorly. I will say, I have a theory perhaps controversial, but in the spirit of defending, re-gifting. Every so often I've been given something that I'm like, this is lovely. I don't like to waste stuff. You don't. I take things to goodwill and, you know, salvation. I'm so regularly, but I have on occasion been given something and I'm just like, this looks

exactly like Jenny or, oh my God, you know who would love this? My friend Jed, like, I've just been given something that I don't actually need or that, like, I might have one, but one of my friends really wants one. And then I'm like, I'm not going to like give it to them for their birthday. That feels weird, but like on a random Tuesday. You're not going to wrap it. Is that the deal? As long as you don't wrap a re-gift, it's fine. So, because then I think it's like, you won't believe this thing I got. I knew you wanted one here. And it's just like, well, that's nice.

Yeah. I'm not mad. I think we need to buy less stuff. And destigmatize. Regifting. Yeah. By the way, essentially it's how I feel about vintage. I pay to re-gift someone else's stuff to myself.

Is that true? Is that true? I know. I'm into it. So, anyway. Sophia in real life. That's my theory. That's my theory.

sticking to it. Thank you guys for joining us. We will see you next week for episode 311. 311. 311. More drama. It looks like maybe there's some storylines actually going to start happening now that they built all the bridges they needed to build. No more flashbacks. Yeah. The next episode is called Return of the Future. So like maybe we get real time TV back. I don't know. Yeah, no more freeze frame. Sorry, guys. Freeze frames out. This was all you got.

See you guys later. See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens OTH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop.

That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.