Drama Queens - Unveiled Truths • EP 719

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

It's Quinn's gallery opening and Rob is concerned about Clay's behavior, interpreting it as if he’s treating Katie like a mistress. Joy reveals she had to fight to play Haley low energy and how clearly she remembers filming the scenes where Haley is overwhelmed with grief. They discuss what they loved about the dramatic scene where Skills punches Mouth. And, Joy reflects on their late colleague Paul Teal, who portrayed the character Josh.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

By the way, I've started taking notes joy on my phone as well, because I find I can watch episodes like, well, I'm putting my son down. And I got to say, I don't think I'm going to go back to pen and paper. Yeah, it's kind of nice just to be able to have it all. I use my, I like my iPad and my pencil, Apple pencil, because I can just do where I have, like, the same template every time. Uh-huh. So you're just the futuristic version of a pen and paper. I guess so. Or quill and ink, if you will.

A quill and ink. Yeah, but having notes all written out on your phone, can you type like, is, like, is that easy to do while you're doing other things? You feel like you can? No, I just, I have to, you have to pause the episode for sure. Oh, okay. That makes sense. You know, it's just, it's nice because I can kind of two birds, one stone it, you know? Yeah. Well, hi, everybody. Welcome to the middle of our conversation. We're just talking about technology, fixing my computer, and we're talking about taking notes on this weird episode. Rob, what's the episode? Do you want to tell us? I'd love to. Season 7, episode 19, every picture tells a story. Air date was April 26, 2010.

It's the night of Quinn's big gallery opening, and an uninvited guest ambushes quay. Uh-oh. Nathan spends the day with Jamie while Haley struggles with the life after her mother's passing. Brooke and Julian each receive a shocking surprise. Meanwhile, Skills learns the truth about Lauren and. in mouth and grubs presents Miranda with a life-changing question directed by our own Chad Graves

written by William H. Brown. Well, you came in with an interesting energy towards this episode, so why don't you start? Say more about that sort of, eh, vibe you gave. I thought the writing was exceptionally lazy and we're getting to this point. And this is

it's hard to say that because a lot of our writers we all love and have great experiences with. And like every other day job, you enter into seasons, I think, where you're focused on something else or people have things going on in their personal life. And there's so many things going on. So I don't know what all the factors were that contributed this because Bill Brown's actually a pretty good writer. I think he's done some really great stuff for our show. So I don't know what happened.

I don't know if the room just, it's like we, there were so many things that did. didn't make sense. It felt to me like the conversations were very talking heads. There was low energy everywhere in this episode, and I was confused. But maybe I'm being grouchy. I'm also like, my energy's down a little. Paul Thiel, who played Josh, passed away recently a couple of days ago, actually. And I worked pretty closely with him on this show, but mostly on a play that I did with him when we did the notebook in 2006. So it was hard to see him and watch, just watch him. He was so great. So I don't know. Maybe that's coloring my perspective of the episode. I just feel a little, I feel a little down. So I was probably projecting that on the

rest of everything. I don't know. Fair. And also, I don't, I, let me validate what you're saying. It was a confusing episode because a lot of my notes are filled with questions as opposed to comments. But I also agree with you. I think Paul's great because you're right. The energy is kind of low in this episode and he's just sort of up to something. Yeah. And he was just great in everything he did. And so yeah, just what a heartbreaking loss. So young, such a talented sweet guy. He really was so talented. And so like what's really funny about watching him in in this. role is that, you know, when we did the notebook, I was, we worked very, he was Noah in my version of the notebook. So he was, he worked very closely with me for, I think we rehearsed for like

three or four months before we put that workshop up. So it was, I mean, it was, we took our time. So he and I worked very closely together every day for a long time. And when I tell you, he is nothing like that character, like Josh, it's so funny to see because he is so shy. I never once saw him throw any kind of a temper tantrum. I never saw him say an unkind word to anybody. He was shy and sweet and just wanted to make space for everybody. But he felt so free on stage. Like, you put him in a character and he just totally opened up. And it's so fun to watch actors like that who are so comfortable in their skin and who they are as a human that they don't feel the need to sort of act out. But there's all these little pieces of our personality. Like when he gets into a role,

He just turned into somebody else. It was amazing. Yeah, I bet it was so fun for him because you always hear actors, like, what do they want to play? And it's usually the opposite of who they are. So it's like the nicest people love, like Brian Cranston, like relished playing Walter White, you know. And he crushed at it too. So, yeah, Paul was a same guy. Watching him storm into that trailer and slam the door and then throw the wardrobe out at Sophia.

I was like, whoa, that is so not you. it was great he was great but i i agree with you the episode there was just there was a lot of odd things about it and it's one of the things i feel like it's almost as if they were short on time and they went like let's just add 20 seconds to a handful of scenes because i did notice there was this weird theme i don't want to get ahead of ourselves but there's this odd odd theme that happens probably three or four times in this episode where something unexpected and unfortunate to say the least happens to a character and the care and attention is put on the wrong people like I think it starts with with Miranda where Grubbs walks in and Miranda's like

devastated she's like I'm being deported yeah and his first thought like he his first thing is kind of snarky like thought you were going to do the record with me and then then she's like I'm I'm going to be deported. And rather than reading the room being like, oh, my gosh, your life is being upended. He goes, what does that mean for us? Right. And then like Jana, or excuse me, Alex is involved in a sex tape, which she did not consent to. And the initial emphasis is put on, she apologizes to, because Julian comes in hot at her.

Oh, yeah. Rather than like asking, you know, even when she says, like, I didn't know, he doesn't kind of pull it back and go, okay, that's awful. And then when she comes to apologize, she's, she's apologizing on beat. I think when she goes to Josh about it, she's like, you jeopardize the film and these people. I'm like, also, how about you are the biggest victim here? Yes. Yeah, there was no like, hey, are you okay? Oh my God. Like, that's horrendous what just happened to you. That should be the first priority out of all of this. Everybody checking to see if Alex is okay. Yes. And it's, it's just, so it's this. thing. It happens again. I forget who it is. But yeah, where it's this thing where it's like, the characters eventually get to the right place in terms of like focusing on who this thing happened to. But they all like they all start with making, like being selfish and not focusing on the person who was actually wrong, the victim in the case. And so. Yeah. Which would have worked if there

had been somebody who was pointing it out so that at least we learned the lesson of like, here's what it looks like when you don't empathize and you only worry about yourself in scenarios and here's what it looks like when you care about someone else. Yes, yes. But nobody was doing that. No. It was like Grubbs was about himself.

Julian was about himself. And then Alex felt bad so she let it be about Julian even though she's the biggest victim. It was like, what do we? No, be upset for yourself. You know, Grubbs got there and Julian got there. but yeah, it started off me going like, really? So, yeah, so that's one thing that didn't make sense.

We talked last week about the Clay and Sarah slash Katie of it all and how we're doing Superman now, like she puts on the glasses and now suddenly nobody knows who she is. I mean, the fact that Quinn has been dating Clay for long enough that they're saying, I love you, and she's never seen a photograph of Sarah. They've never had a late-night conversation of tell me everything about her, Show me pictures of her. Show me pictures of you guys.

I want to see your wedding photos. I want to know who you were together. Hello. What is their relationship if they haven't had moments like this? Yes. And especially, do you remember that scene on the beach after he confesses to her when it's raining outside? And after he shoes her away and then he gets in his car and he finally says, I had a wife. Her name was Sarah.

She died. There's a scene after that where Clay and Quinn are sitting on the beach talking. Like it's like now the morning time. And it ends with, I think maybe Clay says something the effect of like, well, should we go, you know, or start our day or something? And she's like, nah, tell me more about Sarah. It's this really sweet, like, I have space for all of this and I'm interested moment. Yeah. So I'm with you.

And also she makes a comment, I think it was in the previous episode or the one before that where she says, hey, I noticed that there aren't any pictures of Sarah up. I hope that's not because of me. So I'm with you. just feels so, so weird that she's never seen a picture of Sarah. It feels also like, okay, as I'm, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. It seems like pretty easy fix if they knew they were going to do this storyline to have a couple of scenes here and there where Quinn is like, I really, you know, you've never

shown me a photo of Sarah. I would love to see, what does she look like? And Clay's like, you know what? all the photos are locked away, I put it in storage. I just, it's a little too much for me to have around. I mean, it's reasonable as a time before everybody had photos all over their cell phone. So I feel like there's a world where we could have plausibly believed that, but they just didn't make an effort. So we have no reason to believe it. Well, and so it's odd, right? So she comes into the gallery and You know, first of all, there's the hilarious shot of when Clay sees, so Quinn walks over and goes, hey, I want to introduce you to the girl I'm going to be sharing you with, which was like, what's happening right now? Yeah.

And then it shows that Clay sees Katie standing there. There's the slow-mo, as if you're not going to see surprise on Clay's face. There's the slow-mo drop of the beer and then the close-up of the bottle exploding on the ground. What? As if the audience is like, I'm not sure what's, oh, the bottle broke. Clay's surprise, this is big. It's so disappointing. But here's the thing, right?

Okay, so it's this odd game. Again, I don't understand why Clay didn't get home from his scouting trip and immediately download to Quinn. You're never going to believe what just happened to me. Yep. Because that would be the craziest of crazy tea. I don't know how you wouldn't want to spill that with your favorite person. Yes.

And, okay, whatever. He does it. Maybe he's got baggage. Who cares? Then the fact that he plays along in the gallery where he actually lets himself be introduced to her. And he reacts as if he doesn't know who she is. He doesn't just go, I know who you're Katie. Yeah, we spoke.

He does this weird thing. I said this last episode where it's he is behaving as if he has done something that he does not want to come out. He's behaving like a man who has had an affair. So he plays, he does the dance. It's awkward. And then he doubles down on his shady behavior by like surreptitiously in indifference scene walking over to Katie, grabbing her by the arm. We have a couple of arm grabs in this episode too. Yes. And then which like, why are you doing that? It's so like 1940s like, come here. I'm going to talk to you on the corner. Come here, wench. As if as if she, listen, pal, She's obsessed with you.

I'm pretty sure if you just said, hey, can you meet me in the corner? She'd be like, absolutely. I'm obsessed with you. Don't touch her. There's an intimacy in that kind of touching. Dude, exactly. And then he pulls over and he's doing like the shout whisper thing. Like, what are you doing here?

This is the behavior of a man whose mistress has shown up to his kid's birthday party where his wife is at. Yes, of 1,000%. But then he tells Quinn. So here's what I don't get What like from a writing standpoint This here's what I would have loved to have seen Is that he had told Quinn about this Katie girl And when she shows up

Quinn is in on it too Because this isn't this isn't a thread that we kept going Where Quinn's in the dark At the scene after Clay grabs her by the arm He's like he goes to Quinn He goes hey I want to show you a picture And he he unloads it Which was also weird that I didn't understand

my Quinn wasn't like, why were you, then why didn't you say anything? You know, like. Yeah. Also, even Katie. I mean, this is the easiest one to write off because she's a little bonkers, but why would she show up to the girlfriend's event and assume that the girlfriend doesn't know what Sarah looks like? Quinn being the girlfriend.

Like, why would she, you know what I mean? Why would she show up and think I'm going to get away with this? Well, I think her defense would be that she is. not a rational person. You are applying rationale to an irrational person. Exactly. Also, when Clay and Quinn walk into the gallery at the start of the

episode, I thought it was funny because it almost is as if Clay is presenting it to Quinn. Even though it's her gallery show, she was, listen, if you're doing a gallery opening, she has been there for hours every single day going over every

minute detail. But whatever. It was just sort of odd that he was like, close your Guys, are you ready? As if, like, she wasn't there an hour beforehand doing all the touch-ups. And then he does the count of two. He does the Katie thing. He goes one, two, and he turns on the lights. I felt myself pissed off.

Like, Clay, do better. What Katie thing? The whole thing with Katie is on the count of two. When they're on the bridge, they're meat cute. Oh, with Sarah. Yeah, with Sarah. And he's like, sorry, I may have said Katie with Sarah. When he's like on the count of two.

And she's like, who does count of two? And he's like, us. Oh, so now he's bringing that into him. And then he does it to Quinn. I'm like, give her her own thing. No leftovers. No leftovers. It's a new restaurant.

Come on. To be fair about that, I have a friend I just had a conversation with who their mom died and their dad, who's also much older. He's in his 70s now. And he remarried, but he keeps putting the new wife in all the same situations as his wife of like 50 years by like taking her to the same special places that he used to go to with his wife and like buying things for the new wife that were the same exactly the same thing like the same watch but in a different color for the that he did for his previous wife so i wonder if this is just a grieving man thing that's like i just i only know how to function one way but

That's also somebody who was married for like 50 years and who's old and not knowing how to do something else. I mean, Clay is a young man. Like, he should be doing some different things for Quinn. Does the new wife, does she know? She doesn't know. No, I mean, the kids have been like having to communicate. Like, Dad, please stop. It actually hurts us.

You guys have to find new things. And she's like, why is everybody mad at me? Why did the kids cry when we go to Applebee's, honey? I know. Yeah. So I guess I could write Clay a free pass on the one, too, as an instinct. But nevertheless, it is strange that he's introducing her to the venue. Well, and also just because she's not aware of it. I feel like if it was, if it was something she was aware of, it makes it a little less weird for me for some reason. But it's almost kind of like he's recycling it and she thinks it might be for her. Whatever. It's not a big. It was just a small beef I had. I will say, though, going back to this gentleman who remarried, I don't mind that gentleman taking her to the same restaurants because he's 70 years old.

He's had a lot of time to try a lot of restaurants, and he knows what he likes. So good for him. Fair, fair enough. The watch is weird, because that's a gift for her that you're not involved in, and you still chose the one that your former partner had. Yeah. That's the one if I'm the kid. I'm like, no, no, buddy.

No, no, dad. We need new things, new things. Oh. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn SageBurn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so Clay is kerfuffled by Katie coming in, handles it all wrong. I'm, you know what else I really was bummed about this story?

guys there are good things about this episode i just this storyline bothered me too because when clay came on the show you rob you had so much energy you had so much uh there was this banter with james and there was this sort of snap to your personality and we entered into the sarah storyline and we got to see a really lovely emotional side of clay that was meaningful and we needed that to be able to grab onto depth for you as an audience member to know, to really fall in love with you beyond just like, I like this guy and I like his fun personality. But once we got through that and he was, now he's with Quinn, like, it's the promise of fun that I believed I was going to get almost consistently with Clay based on the way that they introduced to your character,

that I'm getting annoyed. Like, I want to. to see more fun, snappy banter clay. I want to see who I was promised. And I am not getting it, because they just entered you into another dramatic, melodramatic storyline. And I miss the you that I saw. I miss the clay that I met. Wow.

I've never thought about it like that, but I totally get it. Because I can also tell you, for me, comedy is my strike zone. Like that sort of banter, is my favorite place to play and I agree that I got to do it at the start and then they were like but let's give him all the drama you know and yeah fine for a season yeah but like it goes on for a while just keeps going on and on and on so I know as the actor involved I I do recall kind of

feeling like hey guys when are we going to come up for air it's like hiring a Jeremy Pivenner or Vince Vaughn type of, you know, like these guys who are known for being, having so much personality, say what you want about them. I don't know them personally, but like hiring them to do something that, I don't know, who's like somebody that does a lot of melodrama as an actor? Like, hiring them to do Denzel type roles? Like, I don't know. Where is the quippiness? Where is all the fun? Where is Clay trying to make light of things? They just would not let you do it. And it felt so, frustrating for me as an audience member. I mean, you did a great job.

Like, you're so good at the drama. I just wish they'd let you expand on your personality more that the one they knew you had. Here's the thing I started, I kind of mentioned last episode that I had a take. I don't, I'm curious, actually, what people will think about it. I'm wondering how many people on the same page as me, but I have been wanting, by the way, are we just calling her Lauren now that we haven't seen her in the class? I call her Miss Lauren every episode. I do too. I'm just going to stick with it.

Miss Lauren. Miss Lauren. I have wanted something to happen between Miss Lauren and mouth. Like basically this whole season, they've been sort of playing this one foot in, one foot out dance with us. We finally got a moment at the end of two episodes ago, but they immediately excused it as drunk behavior by mouth. Then they came back and Miss Lauren kissed him and skills walked in. And then we have this episode.

episode. And I got to say, I think there is a very strong case to be made for skills stepping aside and mouth and Miss Lauren to give it a go. Interesting. I guess I agree. Skills did leave and he said, you know, they kind of broke up when he left, right? It wasn't like they were trying to maintain a long distance relationship. So, and he had to know. And he had to know. that they were still hanging out. Here's kind of some of my reasoning, right? Is that so he left. He didn't even ask her if she wanted to come,

a point which she brought up and said it would have at least, he's like, would you have come and she says no, but it would have been nice to be asked. So it wasn't even serious enough for him to entertain the conversation with her. He leaves, right? And when he leaves, he's gone, gone. There's a scene in which Ms. Lawrence shows

up and Mouth is playing video games and he says, oh, I'm on with skills now. And she makes a comment to the effect of how's he doing? I haven't talked to him in a really long time. So he's not keeping in touch with her. He's not keeping an open line of communication. And then the whole while Miss Lauren and Mouth are finding like friendship in each other. It starts off very innocently. It's like it starts off the way it should like with a good foundation of friendship and then it kind of starts to evolve into more and then skill and like they think about it they're like I don't want to be your rebound I don't want to be your rebound and then even after they've done their due diligence and they've weighed all the the kind of the the things in play and they go like

let's give us a try of course at that very moment skills walks in and then here's my other issue there is just this strong entitlement of on skills as part on the writing part because I don't want to say ownership that's too extreme but like he does he shows up and in the gallery he walks up because Lauren and mouth are talking and he walks up and he puts his arm around her waist and he says hey do you mind if I steal my girl away for a second and I just thought to myself that's wild that you would leave for months not weeks months presumably not talk at all. And then you would walk up, put your arm around her, and call her your girl. And he even said that when he walked in the door right after they had kissed. Hey, baby.

Yes. So I think you're right. Like, to me, what I don't like about it is it's, it kind of smacks of someone who is really just like focused on themselves. It's sort of like, I left. I'm assuming everything else frozen time. And now that I'm back, I'm going to pick up right where I left off. Because I'm the main character. And then he says, he has the audacious. to say to her after he like pulls her outside of the gallery he goes hey you seem distant

and I'm like bro distant is when you dip out for months on end and don't check in with your girlfriend who you only broke up with because of geography like you were distant for months and now you show up acting

as if nothing has changed and then you you kind of check her on not just like resuming right where you left off? What? Yeah. This goes to your first point about people not being, like the emphasis is being put on the wrong person. Exactly. This really doesn't make sense. And like that theme, he gets there. By the end of the episode, he says like, hey, I'm sorry. I know. Like he, so,

but there's literally, it's like three different characters in this episode start with putting the emphasis on the wrong person. They eventually get to the right spot. But like I said, it's almost like they went our episode's three minutes short. Yeah. I know how we can add a little bit. Yeah. I mean, but he got there, but then he didn't again. Like, once he found out it was mouth, then he's punching mouth in the face, which was just so tacky. Also, I mean, listen, having, Mouth and Miss Lauren having that intimate conversation in the photo booth that they know is being broadcast to the entire gallery. Yeah. Not the smartest move? No, especially after it goes off one time, they look at the camera and then they continue to have the

intimate moment. No one goes, oh, crap, a camera. Let's talk away. They're like, this seems like the right spot. Let's stand on the X directly in front of the camera broadcasting to the gallery. Oh, crap, a camera. I think it's like a room they had to go into. Like, they went in there. But he, so he punch his mouth, which again, the sense of entitlement that he just goes away. you might feel betrayed by your friend but if it's your best friend again all you saw was that like a hand was on an arm there's nothing scandalous but that he immediately punches it just sort of added to the like you are not emotionally or mature like maturity wise where you need to be right now like you need to level up and circle back yeah yeah level up and circle back I love that because you're just

not there right now pal like you got to get some get some reps in, do some practice laps, and then come back. You know, the thing that was great about it, though, is that he punch his mouth, he falls through the backdrop, revealing Alexander and Victoria. And she has that incredible moment where she sees everyone in the gallery looking at them, and she just slowly walks out and she looks down at mouth and she just says, scandalous. That's just scandalous. It's like, it was so, so funny, man.

Completely leaving Alexander in the dust. 100%. Like, not even a second thought. Like, oh, well, you're on your own, kid. See you later. As if she wasn't involved in anything that he was a part of, she just sort of saw her way out quietly and commented on the body on the floor. That's right, because Victoria knows how easy it would be to just reframe that whole situation

for anyone who thought they saw her. with Alex in his underwear, she was like, oh, I was just passing through from the back room and suddenly Alexander was standing there in his underwear. I don't know what was going on. It was very bizarre. Everything was very bizarre. I had to get out of there. It was so good. And then it led to, of course, the fantastic scene

of Brooke yelling at her mom in Alexander, the perfect role reversal of the child yelling at the parent. Really funny. The two of them sitting in a chair. So funny. It was, Brooke was nice. It was nice. to have a little bit of that

I don't know if comic relief is there it was just nice to see Brooke happy in this episode because she's also been kind of sad and depressed for the last like seven episodes so nice to see her have a little relief for sure and yeah she definitely needed that release

there was a great comedic moment where I think it's after the news as Brooke Paul's telling Julian we're being blackmailed and Josh keeps walking up and first Julian tells him to shut up and then Paul tells him to shut up. It was a really kind of a fun runner there. It was so great. I like that Brooke was the one who after Julian came down, I think, far too

hard on Alex. I like that Brooke was the one who sort of softened his heart and was like, nope, come on. Help her. Help her out. That was great. is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. another thing in the gallery uh did you keep that photo of yourself no rob it's good you should have kept that it is a good photo it's a good photo i think actually it went up in an apartment in wilmington when i lived really i lived downtown my first two years the first two seasons and then the third year i moved out and i moved in with Steve E.C. Stephen Cletti for all of you. Yeah, also, who made an appearance in this episode for like a shot, which was so bizarre. I had a note about that. I was like, why are we limiting Chase to

only bar-specific material? And he, I think he said one line, we got a shot of his face and then moved on, never saw him again for the rest of the entire episode, and haven't seen him for a while anyway. It was just like, somebody was like, oh, we need Chase. He's got storylines coming up. somebody just get a shot of him in this episode like just hey reminder audience he exists okay bye it's and it's odd it's as if in tree hill there is only one bartender left they've all fled town for the big cities this is the only guy we got grubs is recording an album anyway so the photos in a in an apartment somewhere in it was and yeah i don't know what happened after i left but yeah i had it i had it up for for a bit which is it's funny it's a good photo it's a great photo

That's the kind of photo of somebody you see when you go. It's like in their bathroom or like in a guest room somewhere in a hallway that tucked away in the corner. You know, it's like you don't want to display it out for everyone, but it's nice to be able to go see if you're a house guest and you pass by it in the entryway or like the bathroom hallway. I want my houseguess to know. Look how serious I can look, you guys. Look at me when I think. How pensive I am. I loved, but I agree with you on the chase stuff.

I wish we had more of it. I like that Grubbs eventually got there and asked Miranda to marry him because I was shouting at the TV as soon as that came up. Like, what are you doing? Dumb. Like, just proposed to her. But then I really loved seeing Nathan and Jamie have a guy's night. It was such a pure, joyful. storyline in this episode. Yeah, very, very sweet. I did not like the kiss element. I thought

again, lazy, like there's so many meaningful things they could have done. And I think they just were like, I don't know, we just need them to do something cheap in the house. But I would love for them to have gone, have gone like on another camping trip or gone to do something, even bowling, I don't know, something out where you could, you got, they got into some real shenanigans. And there was an actual, even a D storyline to follow of stakes, you know, something happens, instigation obstacle, you're trying to overcome it, and then they resolve it at the end. It could have been very simple, I don't know, toilet papering somebody's house or just something. Oh my gosh, if they had gone to TP, what's his name, Chuck's house?

How good would that have been? Yes, yes. I agree with you. Here's what I will say about that. I loved the kiss. You did. But here's why. Not, not, I like, listen, I like to see a father and a son bonding and having fun.

Great. Yeah. What I loved about it was I was watching James, my friend. Yeah. Who is not a guy to put on face makeup and act like a flamboyant rock star. I was watching my buddy just going, James is hating this. Like, he commits. And he goes for it.

But because I know the man doing it, I'm like, oh, this is not his happy place. Yeah. Yeah. No, this felt like one of those, I mean, there were so many things in this episode that I think were reflections of our boss and his perspective and the way that women are viewed, the way that relationships are viewed, all of those things. But this also felt like some sort of something behind the scenes. How do I irritate James and put him in a position where he has to do something that he is embarrassed by and hates? Well, also that montage felt like it was 32 minutes long. This is what I'm saying.

Yes. It's like adding the 20 extra seconds in every scene, if they had taken those out and put them into a real storyline moment between Nathan and Jamie going out, T-Ping Chuck's house, trying not to get caught, the cops are maybe chasing them. It's like, it could be small little things. It doesn't have to be a long, drawn-out storyline, but we needed some energy. Also, you know, what would have been more fun is watching a moment of, so they're playing guitar hero, I get the transition to kiss. I understand that logic, right? Here's what would have been funny is a moment where one of them goes, hey, you know what we should do? We should put on the makeup.

And they see a picture of how the guys look. And then they go to do it to themselves and it just looks terrible because they're not professional makeup artists. Yeah, if Jamie had said that and Nathan was like, fine, yep, all right, let's do it. Like, just suck it up, let's do it. That would have been great. Just the impetus of seeing that moment and having it not be perfect, it would have been so fun. But the fact that Nathan was like, you know what? I actually know where all of mom's makeup is.

I know exactly what to use. Yes. Because they were perfect makeup jobs. If my son was like, let's do that, I would have no clue what to do if Jenny weren't around. Yeah, like where did they get the people? pure white clown makeup because Haley doesn't have that in her kit. This is like in the bottom of a pile of things. You know how in kids rooms if you go into like a seven or eight year old's room in the closet somewhere. There's baskets stacked on top of each other and it's just all full

of shit, just whatever you can do little things. Somebody gave Jamie a face paint kit five years ago that never got thrown out and it's in the bottom in the corner of the closet. And that's what I wanted to see them. Go dig for. Pull it out. Watch. Jamie try and do his dad's makeup. Like, it would have been so cute. That's what's happened in my mind. I'm rewriting it in my mind. In my mind, Haley moonlights as a geisha from time to time.

So she has plenty of that white clown makeup just around the house and a kitchen drawer and a bathroom shelf. You know, it's everywhere. Love it. Speaking of Haley, I did, because, you know, last week when I had seen almost all of this episode and I had said, oh, there's not much grieving. Obviously, I hadn't got to the end of this episode and watching Haley try to hold it together at the gallery opening, which makes a lot of sense, and then completely coming undone, which I liked because for a big emotional release, they really kind of pulled back all of the theatrics. And that may have been a you call, I don't know, but I like that it was, I love the honesty and the simplicity of, you. just quietly woke up in bed and snuck outside to not wake the family and then just fell apart. Yeah. I remember doing that scene. I also remember throughout the episode having to fight

for Haley to be low energy. I think Quinn was excited and pushing through and she sort of had to be on and Brooke was finally happy and at peace. And I feel like they wanted a lot more of Haley's excitement for Quinn and all of my, for all of Haley's interactions, I remember just feeling like I was getting asked to be happier or be just a little more energy, just more energy. And I was like, I just, and when I first watched it, I was thinking was I just miserable. in my life. Like, oh, no, this is, I was making this choice because Lydia had just passed away and it didn't make any sense for Haley to just be like moderately sad. So I'm glad I, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't always right, but I'm glad I stuck to my guns on this one because I, I think it,

I think we needed it, but I also think it was, I remember it being hard to do because if everything around me is kind of low energy. My tendency as an actor is to find a way to brighten everything up and keep the energy up because I'm trying to like carry the scene. Like, oh no, everything is getting so slow. So it was such a good challenge to try and settle into and be comfortable with just being there and not having much reaction to anything. And it paid off in the end of the episode.

And I forgot how dark this goes for her. Oh, I don't remember so I'm... Yeah, this keeps going for her for a while. Oh, well, I think you found a really nice place for it to settle because the gallery, it makes sense. You do need to have some energy for that. It's a big night for your sister. Yeah. You know, it's not like it was a family dinner night where it's just kind of, you know, standard fair.

It's like you do sort of need to turn it on, you know, just to sort of cheerlead your siblings. You know, but then it, so I bought all of that. And then like I said, just when you actually have a private moment, kind of the first time. Isn't that the worst when you're just in absolute pain and misery and you have to show up somewhere and pretend like everything's fine? Because what are you going to do? Like somebody's, you can't have any real meaningful conversations. If somebody who knows you really well gets too close, looks you too long in the eye, puts their hand on you in a way that's comforting, it's like, I'm going to to fall apart. I need nobody to touch me. I need nobody to look at me. I can talk to you about the

weather and the news maybe, but like I can't, I just cannot have anything meaningful going on because I'm going to fall apart. It's the worst. So when, because I think you just described being an actor as well, when you are having stuff going on in your life, do you find it harder to come to work and do your job? Or do you find it easier because you were able to sort of dissociate and just escape to someone else. I find it a lot harder to come to work, and especially if I have to do comedy or I even just be fine, be just normal. It takes so much energy to lift up from feeling heavy, to lift up just to a normal level

of energy for me so if I have to do stuff that's really especially really funny and then I feel bad because I feel like I'm not being authentic

I'm not doing a good job because it feels fake which makes me feel worse about my real life and like it's a bad cycle that's it's tough for me how about you how does it feel for you

it's kind of similar for me the thing you were just describing I find gets me where it's Because I really try to be authentic in my life and sort of honor my feelings and where I'm at. And because what I used to do was always sort of have a facade of like, I'm good. How are you? Just the like infinite constant people pleaser.

I'm okay. I need you to be okay. And so I do find I have had moments where I am doing light fair, comedy, rom-com type stuff. And as soon as they call cut, I feel my face drop. and if I'm not careful I can find myself resenting the work because I'm like this is BS

I'm sad you know because I just I feel how false it is it feels so fake to me you know but if on the same hand the other side of the coin if I'm doing drama it kind of is a shortcut to drop into where I'm at yes definitely I had a director one time

say bring your shit to set and he was right because it was like if I was going through something and I had to play, you know, heaviness was like, oh, we're grounded. I've got it. We're here. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. When it's comedy or light, feel good stuff, it's just extra tiring.

You become aware of how tiring it is to fake energy when you just don't have it. I would say it's one of the benefits, however, being on a show with cast members. that you feel safe with and have known for a really long time versus showing up to do a guest spot or, you know, if you're on a movie and it's like week one or something, there's something that is, I have done this where I've shown up to set feeling not great and just let myself have a moment, have a cry, have like, just trusting that the other artists around me understand that we're not robots and sometimes you're having a hard day and you just need to let it out and the sheer moment of releasing it out of my body will and being witnessed by other

people who say it's okay take a moment life is hard sometimes and then getting myself put back together and showing up uh walking back onto set and doing the scene does make it a lot easier for me if i can allow myself to just be a human and release if I have to and take five minutes. Everybody's going to have to wait for five minutes while I cry and get it out of my body. And then step back in, that does really help. But I don't feel like I can do that very often. I think I have to feel really safe in the environment. But working on our show, we had such a great group of people. So that was something we could do. I hope that made sense. I mean to talk in a circle. Yeah, no, it does make sense. And I think also I do like work is helpful for me when I'm when I'm going through

something. I mean, listen, if I like lost a loved one and I'm grieving, it's different because that's just grief and that's living in my body. But if it's, you know, oftentimes 85% of my struggles are created in my head. 85% of them probably will never ever happen. You know, so a lot of times my struggles are of my own making and going to work and forcing my mind to focus on other things can help pull me out of that loop I'm in. Because I know once my head gets stuck on something, my mind can just sort of loop and loop and loop and ruminate on it and going to work and forcing myself to say different words, to listen to people, to be present. It's sort of like, it gives me enough space from it to go like, oh, okay, it took some of the air out of the balloon.

Yeah. Which what felt so big before has now become kind of right sized and it's more manageable. Yeah. Versus like, you know, when you lay in your, like, when you're, like, I used to do this all the time. My 20s when I'd wake up with anxiety or something. And I didn't know what to do besides just lay in my bed. And of course, that is the, for at least for me, that is the worst possible thing I can do. Yes, I'm the same.

I mean, many years of my life, I've really only recently in the last, I think, year or two, learned how to get myself up out of bed because I would wake up and immediately feel depressed. Like open my eyes and feel all the pressure of the day, all the things that I didn't. And then it's like friends, I forgot to say happy birthday to a month ago. And it's like every little possible thing that's in your brain about how, what an asshole I am, why everybody hates me, why my life is a mess, you la, la, la, all of the horrible things that lead you completely out of gratitude and into feeling worse and worse and worse about yourself. And that's what was like the replay, like the record on my brain every morning

when I open my eyes. And it is so exhausting. And the worst thing that I would do is lay in bed because I didn't know, I felt paralyzed by it and I didn't have any tools. Yeah. But I tell you like stepping foot out of bed, getting my body upright, drinking a glass of water, Taking a shower, like just getting water on your body, kind of like, you know, even babies react to it if they're throwing a fit. You put a kid in a bath and they're like, okay, something's different. You know, step outside, just something to change it up in your brain makes all the difference. Yes, completely. You know, it's esteemable actions build esteem. And so what I started doing when I was starting to develop my toolkit was I would, I'm a to do list guy, clearly. Like, I love structure.

I love a list. And so I would pad my to-do list. And my first three things would be make bed, brush teeth, take a shower, usually get dressed. So by the time I was starting my day, I had a sense of accomplishment. Yeah, you've checked some things off. I've taken off like a core of this list, you know. But it's funny that Clay had the line. I would say the line most people talk to me about is I think it's no matter how fast you run,

the pain will run faster. It's something to that. I know I'm not getting it word for word, everybody, but you know the gist of it. It's something I think Clay's already said by this point, I believe, because he's talking about grief and how he knows from experience because he tried to outrun it and just escape it.

And what's interesting is I'm only now realizing that I should have taken my own advice sooner, like Rob, because this was a time in my life where I was just struggling and I had no toolkit. So I remember, as we were just talking about laying in bed, that I used to, I can still picture the room so clearly, I would have to, as soon as I got home from work, I would have to put a DVD of one of my favorite shows on. It would stay on through falling asleep. And as soon as I woke up, if it had gone to the menu screen, I immediately

started it back up because I couldn't just be alone with my thoughts. Like going to sleep and waking up were the two scariest parts of the day for me. Wow. So I had to have white noise. It felt familiar it felt like it was almost like friends in the house yeah because my only solution would have been i'm just going to pull the covers over my face yeah which of course like all it does is kill time but it would make life just infinitely scarier and harder so that's a good coping mechanism for a season just to start you know get get you out of your own brain if you're if if and when thoughts are overwhelming um and then what what do you do moving on from that like what's the next level up from that well i mean at best that having tv on the

background is a band-aid like it's not treating anything at all i mean for me what i just discovered for myself was like i do best in motion so it's like i just got to get out of bed and start doing things and um because otherwise just you know like my my my brain can be a very dangerous neighborhood to be hanging out in by myself so like when i wake up and my brain has suited up for the opposing team. I'm like, oh, okay. I got to call some people. Like, I got to get busy, you know, before my head gets busy on me. And I just didn't know better back then. Yeah, but you coped the best way you knew how. That's what I'm saying. Like, there's this element of level to level, you know, glory to glory, whatever, however you want to phrase it. But the idea

that, like, you're figuring it out. And the band-aid that you had at that moment was, that was what you had. And so then there's another level after you decide that this is just a band-aid, how do we actually take the band-aid off and start healing the wound? Also, I think that didn't help at the time was, again, this was pre-therapy. So I kind of felt like I always needed to present the version of Rob that had the fewest needs and took up the least amount of space. Yeah. And which in my head was, I'm just going to be easy and fun and here for you, but I don't need anything from you, which also meant I'm not going to tell you when I'm struggling or scared or hurting because I don't want to be in a position. So I wasn't saying like, hey, man, does anyone else have a solution to this?

Because like, you know, now where I'm at, it's like if I'm struggling with something, I'll reach out to someone close to me and either just to bring them in on it, you know, because a burden shared is halved, a joy shared is doubled. It's like, I'm a big believer in that. But also because they may have a solution. They may go, oh, yeah, I went through that. And here's what I did that helped me. But back then it was like, how you doing, Rob? Great, man. How are you?

Even if they don't have a solution, just being heard, being seen, having somebody like, listen, say, I don't know what that's like, but I can imagine based on what you're explaining to me. And I'll be thinking about you. What do you need? You want to come over? You want to watch a show together on FaceTime? You want me to door dash you something? You want to do a crossword puzzle together? I don't know.

just having somebody hold space for you, even if they don't have advice, can change everything. A little good old-fashioned connection, you know? It's always the secret sauce. It's just other people. If you're just joining us, welcome back to Joy and Rob's Therapy Corner. Today we're talking about growth, where we've been, how we got to where we are today. Well, Clay certainly could take some of all of this advice, some of all of this. some of all, isn't that funny? It's like when people go, I maybe definitely can be there.

Yeah. I maybe definitely could be there. Definitely maybe. You definitely maybe could use a grammar class, you know? Wait, do you follow this guy? I just started following this guy on, we have a listener question. We'll get to it in a sec.

I followed this guy. I have to find it. And he talks about Southern isms. And he's talking about like, Now, when somebody's trying to get off the phone with you in the South, here are the cues that you need to listen to. Now, there's one way to say it, which is, I'm going to let you go, but the real kind way to say it, and what you want to do, you want to win this.

So the real important thing is for you to say, I'm going to let you, I'm going to let you let me go. Shoot, I'm going to, I'm butchering it. Oh, let me let you go. It's not just, I'm going to let you go. It's, all right, well, let me let you go. Because then you win. You're the most considerate.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of It's weird. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Paige asks if you could pick your TV siblings from any other show, who would it be? Oh, I mean, I always go back to the Huxstables.

It's my favorite TV family ever. But I think who's the boss comes in at a close second. I feel like I would have had a lot of fun with Sam. I don't know what. I mean, Alyssa Milano. I can't remember what the character's last name is. What about you? I'm going to go arrest a development.

You would have such a field day with that. Yeah, I just think there would never be a dull moment. holidays would be exceptionally disastrous and entertaining all day. I'll take them all. Okay, this guy is Landon Bryant, and you will thank me later. He's really funny. Landon Bryant. Okay, honorable mention.

I mean, Paul Teal is always going to get my honorable mention from now on every episode he's in. I love him, and I miss him already. also is Josh behind the oh he is I was going I remember watching the episode at the start going is he behind it and I think we realize after he leaves jan as hotel or excuse me Alex's hotel room that he is so I can't wait to see what is cooking up but yes honorable mention all day Paul teal yeah what a guy what a loss much love to to Paul into his loved ones in this difficult season well what do we have next episode oh no we have a wheel first Hold your horses, Roberto. Spin our wheel. Most likely to get a residency in Vegas. I'm going to say both Haley and Joy. I feel like I could do that.

I mean, I don't love Vegas, but that does seem like something that would be fun for like a year, maybe. Maybe. I do like glitter and heat. I just love the idea of you've moved to Vegas. I'm like, what drew you to Vegas, Joy? And you're like, honestly, I just love glitter. That would be the most joy answer ever.

I would be so tickled. I love glitter. Next episode, season seven, episode 20, learning to fall. Thank you so much for joining us. And we look forward to seeing you next week. And can I just say, can you just do all of your segways, can all of them start with, I love glitter. Yes, from now on.

Because it would be the most hilarious runner. People tune in three episodes are like, why does she keep talking about how much she loves glitter? It's never on topic. I'm pushing for my Vegas residency. You're like, I love glitter. It was so sad to see Victoria die in this episode. Everyone's like, what? I'm working on it.

I'm putting it in the arsenal. All right. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Hi. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-HtH. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charming for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queen, drama queen.

It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.