Drama Queens - What’s Not to Love? • EP413

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

While OTH certainly had its episodes where multiple girls were in love with the same guy, we don’t think there’s been a case where three girls have fallen in love with one episode. That is…until now. Hilarie, Joy and Sophia go head over heels for this rewatch.  Find out what part of the episode they wish had happened IRL, why they want to bring it to Broadway and what incident Hilarie and Sophia couldn’t help but tease Joy about.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. You guys, we needed this episode so bad.

Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Oh, hey. Season four, I loved this episode. So good. So good. Episode 13, pictures of you. I wish we had all these pictures. How come we never got copies of these? I know. Somebody sent us some presents, damn it.

All right, give them the synapses. Give them the rundown, ladies. Okay, kids, this episode aired originally February 7, 2007, a classic. assignment reveals the deepest secrets and desires of Luke and the students at Tree Hill High, worried about college prospects, Antoine turns to Haley, while Nathan wrestles with Deb's suicide attempt. Chase learns that Brooke cheated on her calculus exam, while nudity and drugs run rampant in the halls of the school. Surprise, surprise. I don't know what it is. Like, the last couple of weeks, these synopsi, is that the plural? I don't like them. I'm like, I feel that these are

undercutting the importance of an episode like this. I don't know. Whatever. But it has to be titillating to get your attention. Perhaps. There's so much more that happened in this episode. This episode is a testimony to how teenagers talking about their feelings and just having

conversations is great TV. It's still really interesting. Like nothing bad shit happened. Happened. Nothing happened. Guys, it's one class. Yeah. And that's the cool thing. You know, when you, when you edit your hour of television for network with commercial breaks, it's 43 minutes. And the teacher at the

beginning, John Capellis, the custodian from the Breakfast Club, iconic get for us, says you've got 45 minutes. And it's so cool to have an episode actually take place in the length of time of the episode. Love it. I mean, we could have made this show run forever if every episode was just like a class period like the whole season like 24 yeah yeah the whole season's just like a couple of days we would have been so old by the time senior year yeah senior year would have been seasons one through 10 yeah fine um good god to your point so that john was a big get big huge yeah huge get because we all grew up watching the breakfast club in john hugh's movies yes yeah and seinfeld what is your favorite John Hughes movie. Because that was, you know, for the kids that watch our show on streaming

right now, and they watch our show as kind of this like retro, you know, throwback thing, for us, it was John Hughes movies. Like, I watched them obsessively. Yeah. In high school, to the point that I joined the John Cryer fan club in high school because I loved Ducky so much from Pretty and Pink. Yes. I didn't. I didn't. watched john hugh's movies growing up for me it was i was that was like a few years before my time um and so i just was watching i was either watching like really old like turner classic movies which is kind of i think probably where your retro love for john hugh's movies came into because we all loved stuff that was older but yeah but i don't remember what i was watching i didn't start

watching john hugh's movies until i was in my 20s and was like wait what did i miss what did i miss. I love, I just, I did, I loved them so much. And I, I got into, interestingly enough, this season of the show, I was watching Breakfast Club on repeat. And Bevan and I were living together in L.A. She was my roommate in L.A. She was coming back and forth because she was starting to audition for other stuff because she was doing so well on our show. And I will just never forget. There was like a holiday break. I think it was when I was going home for Thanksgiving. And I had the flew and I got home and just crawled on my couch and turned on the breakfast club my mom brought me soup and I was like I'm miserable but this is also my best day and I watched the

breakfast club twice just like back to front and I was like play it again my favorite one was curly sue though if I had to pick like I think that's just because that was the one that he made during our actual era everything else was made that wasn't john hugh's movie yeah oh I totally didn't even know that. I've never seen that one. Curly Sue? With Kelly Lynch? No. Oh my gosh. Jim Belushi and Kelly Lynch. It's so good. She's this little orphan like a con artist. It's great. Okay. Dude, watching John Hughes movies as an adult with my preteen child has been an eye-opener. Because like you, Sophia, it's all warm and fuzzy. It's like these movies are. my childhood. I love him so much. And then you sit down and you watch, you know, pretty and pink

with a little boy. And he's like, or The Breakfast Club. He's like, this movie's disgusting. The way they objectify this girl and the fact that she picks that rich hole over Duckie, like my child was mad. Like three quarters of the way through the movie, he's like, I love this. Last quarter, he's like, this is stupid. I hate it. I watched the Breakfast Club with him at the beginning of the school year because I thought it would be a cool way to. kickoff middle school like seventh grade yeah wrong wrong

he was so grossed out by everything that they did to Molly Ringwald and then the bad makeover they gave Ali Sheedy at the end where they took her from being the weirdo and made her look like a middle-aged grandma by like frosting her makeup

yeah and so it's kind of it's kind of strange to look at this episode which is so deeply based on the breakfast club Yeah. And I think this one holds up, you know? It's not quite as, quite as gross. It's not. And I will say, I think what's interesting is, look, you realize that as every decade passes, you look back on your warm and fuzzies and you go, oof, that didn't age great. Okay. Nope. But I think the overarching idea to Joy's point is that kids talking about their feelings trying to find their way.

However flawed, those movies look to us now, however flawed certain episodes of our show looked to us now. I mean, God, Joy, we had a field day with last week's episode. We were just like, what the fuck is happening? Oh, my God. I know there's so many things. We missed you. We were just like, this is scary.

But, you know, then you get to an episode like this. And it's like, this is the best of what it can be. Yeah, absolutely. And these, all of these kids trying to find their place. trying to do their best, trying to figure out, you know, who they are when no one's looking and what they can say when barely anyone is around. Like, it's beautiful. I mean, maybe that's what's fixing it.

Maybe that's what's fixing it is teenagers sitting around talking about their feelings. Because the Breakfast Club, which took place in the 80s, is talking about how they cannot relate to their parents who grew up in the 60s and 70s. And then our show is taking place in the early 2000s, talking about how we don't understand the grown-ups in the world around us that existed in the 80s. And so maybe this new incarnation of teenagers sitting around talking about what nightmares we are and dissecting shows like ours is incredibly helpful because with each generation of teenagers that come through, hopefully the conversation is getting more honest and

like making everyone more empathetic to each other, you know? Yeah, that was a major, that was a huge, probably the overarching. theme of this episode is empathy because it made me that moment at the end when Lucas walked up to Glenda's car it really got me it made me emotional um just being able to put yourself in the shoes of someone who you don't normally spend time with or whose eyes you don't normally look through um there was something so beautiful about that and it and i hope that it seemed like at the end of this episode if i was a teenager and watching this it would make me want to go to school the next day and reach across to somebody that was really different from me

who I didn't normally interact with. It's such a cool idea for an assignment. You know, the icebreaker of it all makes that possible. And I loved Lucas and Glenda. I loved it. And by the way, there was a moment where I was thinking, these are the scenes I wanted to see last week between Lucas and Peyton.

Damn it? Girl, can I tell you how jealous I was? I'm like, look how much fun they're having. just talking to each other. It looks so nice. It was such a good storyline. And yeah, the way they bridge that divide is these two characters. And you see, you know, from the Jimmy Edwards episode in season three,

who she is becoming and the way she is kind of hiding herself. And at first she says that that's out of anger and dismissal, and then she admits it's a little out of fear. And I don't know, there's something in the way that they're able to open up to each other. maybe because I think we said this a few episodes ago maybe it's a little lower stakes when it's someone who doesn't know you as well but oh man I loved it

and highlight we finally got Lucas as a goth I mean I know begging for this for weeks and we got it the lead up to it was seeing all the makeup on the ground and I'm like yes yes hold on it and it was like a split second I needed to like live in like deep eyeliner Lucas

for more than a split second definitely I wanted more I wanted like the nail polish and the eyeliner. I could have done without like whatever they put in his hair, but you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not the department head. It's not my job. Amber Wallace deserves a huge shout out because she really did such a great job carrying this episode, you know, her portion of this episode. To come in as a recurring guest star, she was not a part of our normal family. And so to be able to have her come in and carry that weight on a hundred percent level.

playing field with everybody else was really impressive. I thought she was so understated and honest in her performance. And she brought out the best in Chad too. He did such a nice job. You could tell that he really trusted her. And that's unusual for a lead in a series with a guest star that comes in. Because we have so many people that rotate through, it can feel hard to fully trust an actor who you don't know very well when you get a constant rotation of people. And It's a real testimony to her abilities. So I just wanted to give her a shout out because she's great. Absolutely.

And they had such good chemistry. Yeah. And I love, again, you know, this notion that it's so important to talk and get vulnerable to figure out where you are on your journey. I love seeing chemistry between two characters like these that isn't laced with sexual attention. Yeah. Because so much of it is. And it's like, oh, God, I want more of this. I want more scenes like this.

Yeah, beyond their sexuality. People are interesting. Yeah. What's so funny, though, the boys get to do that all the time. Like, Lucas had his friend, that girl he met out on the basketball court. He and Daniela got to have like a platonic thing once she was like, we're not working out. Yeah. Peyton and Lucas were platonic for a very long time.

And he's platonic here. He's platonic with Haley. Like, he gets to do that all the time. And Nathan also gets to do. do that a lot of the time. But for characters like Brooke, you know, or not really, Peyton's a fucking nightmare. But for like Brooke and Rachel and the other girls, mouth is the only one they're platonic with and literally everyone else is like just laced with innuendo. And I wish that everyone had gotten those platonic relationships because of the things that I've maintained

from my high school experience, I mean, you guys know. I'm friends with all my friends from high school. And it's because we were all like pals and grew up together. And I don't know, I wish the girls had more opportunity to lean in to that. I do too. You're not going to have to kiss everybody. And you know what I like about you bringing that up? Is that in a way, that's what Shelley is talking about in this episode.

Liz's whole storyline revolves around Shelley saying, I don't know why I have to either be a radical version. or a slut. I'm just a girl. And I like boys and I'm nerdy and I'm excitable and sometimes I feel awkward and it's that's that's the truth. Like there seemed to be this really kind of extreme spectrum for for all the girls. It was like you wanted to sleep with everybody or you slept with nobody and it's like we're that's kind of not real. The point. It's funny that it's so ironic though that they were writing that for her and trying to make that the point. And yet, her photo at the end was so sexualized. And so I, that was something that would belong in Maxim magazine, a photo of a

girl with no top on that says teen. You know what I mean, it's gross. Listen to what we say. Don't look at what we do. That's kind of the matter. I was like, where, they nailed the photos with everybody except her. That was the only one I thought, oh, no. Yeah, what could have represented that better? I mean, even if she was just standing in a white t-shirt, like, In the middle of a, I don't know, what is it like a normal sitting at a desk? I don't know. I don't know. What do you think?

I don't know. It would have been, I think what would have been really cool, and maybe we just didn't have the capabilities with the tiny canon elf that we were taking photos on at this era. But I would have loved to have seen if they had split screened it. So if you had given her half of that photo and half of a photo of her in the clean teen shirt and the jeans. And, like, I like the idea that she's like, no, I'm both of these things.

But to go from, you know me as a clean teen and here's my wild side. I was like, I kind of feel like the point of her conversation is I run the length of this spectrum, actually, and all girls do. Well, we have the easy answer. She should have been wearing her clean taintie shirt but, like, cut off the clean part.

So it just said teen. Yeah, with the line. other pants like both so easy exactly exactly cut clean teen into a crop top since those were a big deal then because we were all missing the top half of our pants lean into the 2007 style and like yeah just leave it at teen just just stay in there with a backpack slung over her shoulder by one of the trees on the campus in a teen shirt yeah it would have been really cool okay okay we rewrote it fine yeah in my memory it's different now they go awfully far you know what I did love though and Joy you weren't you weren't with us last week but Liz was saying

how much she really enjoyed filming that whole sequence with Lee that the shelly and mouth storyline that despite everything going on behind the scenes filming with him she felt really safe and protected and that that scene was really fun and I love knowing that that you know despite us looking at it and going okay they really they took it real far in the writer's room that they were able to have, like, a really great positive experience together is nice to know. They had great chemistry. I loved that. That when they're walking out on the edge of the quad and they're both, they both have their hands in their pockets and their shoulders are kind of up and they're just walking side by side, but they're not touching, but they want to hold hands.

Like, that killed me the way they were mimicking each other's body language. I love these two. Yeah. It felt like doing theater this episode because. Because we all would work like two or three days with just our person. And we got to do longer scenes. And it really felt like scene study with just one partner. And we didn't get to do that very often.

Normally our world is so like, there's 800 extras and you're on the quad and it's chaotic. And the fact that we all just got to do scene work was a nice relief. You're absolutely right. that in fact you could take that entire episode and put it on stage yeah different vignettes and different areas and it it would live on its own it could totally live on its own you don't need to know any of the characters because they say everybody explains everything about themselves to each other so the whole episode lives on its own as a play even if you don't know any of the characters like joy we have to do this at a high school somewhere we should

Somewhere in America. What's our new honey grove? Also, I love that you're like, let's do it at a high school. And I'm like, let's take it to Broadway. I'm like this, I actually think this would be like incredible. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about our character. I loved Sophia watching Brooke be honest and vulnerable and not getting anything out of it. Like she, I don't know that she normally does. That's not like a comparison, but it was just nice to see someone do that.

But she was just so real and honest with him and at the risk of losing something that she did really like this guy. I mean, okay, it had been like a day, but you know, they, how long does she know him like three days? But for her, those emotions felt really big, and it's so scary. Every time you get a new opportunity, it's scary to risk it. And something I loved about it is that it's really the first time that you begin to understand more about her inner life. And it's such a great scene because this is true for so many people. Chase, when she admits that she feels like she's not enough. And I said this while we were watching.

I said, you know, it's the only time I'm glad that the boss, like, betrayed my trust. Because that was a conversation that we had had. And I remember, God, I remember getting the script and feeling so, I just felt like naked. What was the conversation? Were you just talking about how you felt that way or another thing or what? How he liked to, yeah, take our sort of most personal stories and then would use them in the show. And for me, it had been so hard and it had been long before this to admit feeling that way and to then see it

come around in a script I was just like oh no yeah without getting a phone call of like yeah that was really inspiring to me I feel like we could really use that with Brooke and a lot of girls will be touched by this blah blah blah blah we'll relate to this whatever there was no warning and especially now we're at the point where we knew we couldn't trust our boss so it's like oh God, I shared something with you before I knew I couldn't trust you and now you're using it against me. But it's truly the only time I will ever say, I'm so happy my confidence was betrayed because this is such a powerful moment.

Yeah. And what I love seeing about it is that as she admits this, Chase is like, what are you talking about? And he lists all of the accomplishments that everyone on the outside sees. And she gets to say without saying it, that's performance. performance. I'm expected to be perfect in my house and it doesn't matter. Nobody cares about me. Nobody calls me. Nobody supports me. Nobody asks me if I'm okay. So I show up and I do my best and it doesn't matter. And it's such a beautiful representation of, you know, the old adage, like money

doesn't buy happiness. Success doesn't buy happiness. You never know what's really going on with someone. So be kind. And to have this girl explain that. to everyone else what makes her look like a success story is just like weight on her shoulders and it and she feels small oh I loved it I loved learning that having to give myself permission to say that as this episode aired and the mail started coming in and it still comes in and people send that photo over and over and over again and they say this is how I feel that's such a universal truth is so iconic it's like generationally iconic it's one of those photos that anywhere you are if you see that you know exactly what that is and what that moment is and what that represents it was really exciting

to see that come to life because i don't know i feel like i did watch this episode but it's been 15 years for sure i liked brooks level of embarrassment um do you know when you've been confronted with some of your own bullshit. And you have to make the choice of like denying it or admitting it or turning it into a tool. Like actually, don't be mad at me. You should really feel sorry for me because the reason I lied is this, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Brooke just kind of sits in this puddle of embarrassment in a way where it's like, you know what? I did fuck up. and it and you want to know what's worse, it's like f***ed up some more. And here's some more stuff that maybe you didn't know about me. And why don't we just get it all out? Like to sit in your own embarrassment

is a sign of emotional maturity that it took me a minute to like figure out what exactly I was watching. Because when she's sitting in the classroom and she's talking about her parents and all this stuff, I was like, what is this? you know is Brooke trying to I couldn't I couldn't really put my finger on it but that's what it is it's embarrassment it's like I'm just going to say all the things because of you're already out the door

I don't have to worry about you dumping me again because you've pretty much don't me earlier today but we are still stuck together for the next 45 minutes so let's just let it out um yeah being embarrassed is like the worst especially at that age and yeah yeah to have someone like see through all your hard work i worked so hard at this veneer um and this boy's in town for five minutes yeah and he tracks it and i think there's something really powerful too you know for parentified children who grow up being trained to be perfectionists, it's very easy to bolster your image. To tell a little white lie that feels like it's not important. Yeah.

But to your point, when somebody goes, but you lied to me and you realize how that makes someone feel, you can see her wheels turning of, oh, I've been pretending to be perfect for so long that I haven't paid attention to what it's cost me. Mm-hmm. And it's just cost me you. Well, very similarly to Lucas and Glenda, it's like, there's a, in a deeper way, obviously, for Brooke and Chase, but not much. It's only been a date. It's like, well, I don't know you that well.

So I might as well, you know what? Cool. We're here. I'm just going to, I'm going to lay it all out. I'm going to practice honesty. Yeah. It's so good. It's good for the soul.

I saw that in Bevan and Rachel, too. there was something so honest. First of all, what a great performance Bevin gave at the end. That scene. That lead up, just getting to that place where she was just patient, just sitting there waiting, letting Rachel spin and act out and do all her craziness.

And then finally standing up at the end and being like, all right, it's my turn to talk now. Oh. So good. Beautiful. But then pivoting right back into pleasantness. It's like, I'm going to tell you exactly what I think. And then I'm going to get back to.

to business because I am an adult. I'm a professional. Yeah. I'm going to, you know, again, emotional maturity. I can tell you what I think and not throw a temper tantrum about it and now we're moving on. That's right. That's right. Isn't that funny that Bevin, who is so sort of seems like wild and fun and kind of ditsy and cute and whatever and like, oh, she's going to be just fine, but that she's got, she actually has a solid head on her shoulders and she's like got the over-eye bird's eye view of things that we used to think Rachel had, but where she can sort of look over all of it and go, all right, this will be over soon. I'll be somewhere else. I'll just let if you need to be crazy, I'm happy to sit in the bimbo slot for a little while and let you be. It's actually a super alpha move to just sit back and let the other people spin because they need to and not have to step in all the time. Well, but don't you find that that is kind of exactly what our relationships from our youth are. like you pick your role and then it doesn't matter how many decades go by you fall right back into that role and so if this little group of chicks needs bevin you know to play the bimbo

like you said okay i can i can do that if you need me to play a different part one day i can but right because it's not actually threatening her identity like she knows who she is so stepping into a role for someone else to make it easier for someone else to figure out who they are that's really cool to be able to just go, okay, if that's what you need, go ahead. I know who I am, so I can float. Yeah, it requires such a supreme amount of confidence. And it's cool with all these people in this episode, we're getting to peek behind the curtain. Some are, you know, the initial peaks and some are these deeper dives into people. We think we know really well. And now we're learning about a whole other level. And it's so amazing with her storyline.

we think we know exactly who Bevin is. And then she's like, oh, no, I, there's so much going on in here. But you guys all seem really stressed. So I make jokes and I make you laugh. And like, are you okay? And you just go, oh, she's, she's laughing everybody else. And you didn't even know. I bet Bevan is the one person who has parents on our show.

Yeah, probably. She goes home to a mom and a dad and like maybe an older brother or something. Skills does too, by the way. He just told us, Skills has a family. He's a fine. he's all the kids that have parents are fine they're doing great god and they're and they're dating each other by the way it's like the healthy kids find each other and they're like we don't want to mess with this other thing rack over here yeah yeah yeah we'll just stay together oh um speaking of

skills like you two oh magic magic magic magic you had fun and it was yeah like you ate up the impression scene ate it up oh my god joy had so much fun do you do you Scarface with your crutches. So funny. We had a blast. Did they give you a list of people to impersonate or you just like made shit up? I think they asked me. Well, the Al Pacino thing was there, but then they were like, do you have other impressions? Like do as many as you can think of. So I did, because I don't know, I did Katie Holmes. And then I think I did a Drew Barrymore that didn't get in, which is so crazy because like I am actually really in love with Drew Barrymore. And I just love doing impressions of her because, anyway, but it didn't get in.

And then the, I don't know what the other one was. The Mary Kate Ashley Alson bit. Oh, yeah, Mary Kate and Ashley. But Chad did such a great job with the impressions too. He threw himself fully into those. He cracked me up. And it's so funny when Glenda thinks that his call him his elbow and just like undercuts because he does such a good impression of it.

And you just see him deflate and, like, Like, obviously it's written, but God, it's so, so funny. No, it's good. We got to do stuff that we didn't normally get to do. And I think that's... Who were you guys impersonating? I didn't catch that. It was right when, um, oh, God, Borat came out.

You guys were doing Borat. Oh, Borat. Yo, I hadn't seen Borat, but James was obsessed with it. And so James was asked, like, who can you impersonate? And he was like, we're doing this. And I'm just like, yes. Yes. Cool. And it was before we had iPhones. So I couldn't like look it up. I didn't know it was. And I was like, so just tell me what to say. And I'll say it exactly the way you want me to say it. That was on James. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer.

because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories,

such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's also cute watching Peyton and Nathan doing the same impression back and forth because it's like sibling energy. It's so silly and nerdy and sweet. And it's like it's almost a full circle when we talk about how Lucas and Glenda and Brooke and Chase are able to get really vulnerable with each other because they don't know each other that well yet.

There's an inverse that happens with Peyton and Nathan where it's like you know each other so well. You've seen each other through so many things that you become the only person besides. Haley that he tells about his mom. You've settled into this almost sibling-like energy, which can happen with like, you know, the first person you ever fall in love with when you're young. Years later, you're like, we're bros. Like, that's, that dork. Like, oh, my God. And they say the same thing about you. And you guys personify that energy, you know, even when he's trying to be like, we were good. And you're like, we were the fucking worst. Look at my hand. It's broken. Like, it's all so great.

I was trying to figure out that bit too. But it comes full circle because this idea that Nathan is a martyr, he starts off this little experiment by being like, hey, so I carved your initials into these weight plates and like, we were good, right? It's like he's playing a part. He's like, we got to do this thing together. And I do care about you, Peyton. Like, I know you've been through a lot lately.

so I'm going to say this, I'm going to say this flowery thing. And we've watched Nathan do that all season. Like, I can't commit to a school because my wife's not here. And I'm going to try really hard to be the good guy with Rachel. And my parents are nightmares. But he's been trying to say all these flowery things because it makes the people he loves feel good. Right. And he tries to do it with Peyton in this episode.

And she laughs in his face and is like, cut the shit. Like, no. Uh-uh. Yeah. And I think that's what the whole just is. It's like, I know you're trying to be captain of the team for every situation in your life. You want to be team captain for your wife, for your parents, for your sibling, for your friends. That's such a good way to put it.

For everybody. You don't have to be my team captain, man. I know you're a fuck up. I have the broken knuckle to prove it, you know? And I think we also in our lives feel a lot of pressure. to be grand or super present or just like be a lot for everyone. And so I appreciate the Peyton's in my life that are like, hey, I know you're a nightmare. Like, stop.

You don't have to do this. Put it down. Put it down. And so I liked that Peyton got tasked with that message of like, mm-mm. Yeah. Like you exist, you matter. You need to take up space. Yeah.

You should have picked the college you wanted to go to, Nathan. Like, have a moment. Let it be yours. You deserve to take care of yourself. And that's a nice message. And it's so cool to see, again, when we think about all of this chemistry we normally don't get to see. We see so much chemistry between Haley and Nathan. The love story and the romance and the thing we've all, you know, loved the whole time. We're seeing, we've seen all the chemistry with Peyton and Lucas that they've pretended to deny for so long. And now we're getting the payoff. Seeing a typical chemistry. Halian skills, Peyton and Nathan, like, browing out, being confidants

for each other, being sweet, but having no, again, no sexual tension under it. It's so interesting to watch. Yeah. It sure is. What do you think, Peyton, that was the one, because Peyton was really servicing Nathan's storyline a lot, like really, you know, pushing him forward. But I don't feel like we talked about Peyton enough, really. in this episode or a lot. Well, I loved that. I guess we've been focused so much on her for such a long time. As the person that has to cry in every episode, I loved her ostrich mentality in this.

It's like, oh, you want me to talk about my feelings? Like, here's what's not going to happen. I can't whistle. I don't do what I've been doing. But also, I think Peyton knew that if she got into her own shit, it would end up being like, not a pissing match between her and Nathan, but there's a level of competition she knows exists between the two of them. It's why their relationship was volatile.

Like, oh, your family sucks. Well, my family sucks more. And I like that she acknowledged what he was dealing with with his mom. And then rather than let that conversation spiral, as it very well could have, she just changed the subject to whistling. Like, how do I alleviate this? You know, we all have to get through the day. Sometimes it's not worth going down that dark path.

Like, sometimes we just have to keep it light. Yeah. I like that Peyton finally got to do that because historically, she's the one that's like, oh, there's something to cry about. Let's go. Yeah. Let's dig in.

Yeah. I also like that because they've really, really been, she's really been holding space for him to share. And she's given him that beautiful advice. Don't be haunted like Dan. Don't be haunted. Messed me up. That hit me so hard. And I, and I feel like in the face of what he shares about his mom, I like seeing her be a teenage girl that is like, I am not equipped for this. Like, I've given you my, my deepest advice. And now you have so much on your plate, I think the best thing I can do for you is make you laugh. Like, Peyton's not the one to absorb that.

When he says, I wish that, like, I was relieved to hear that my mom might die. Yeah. Payton just lost both moms. Like, both moms. The girl with two dead moms is not the one you tell. Like, I wish my mom was dead. Yeah. And so rather than give him, like, a speech about it,

The gift that Peyton gives is like, you know what? We're going to, we're going to just put this away. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. She's flipping the pancake. She's just going to turn it right over. Yeah.

Again, emotional maturity. We're all. Yeah. Look at us. Gracious of her. Very gracious. I mean, how many times in your life have you had to do that? When someone says something to you that's just so insensitive and so, and you just look

them right in the face and you're like, we're going to talk about something else. Yeah. I don't have it in me. No one, especially in our industry where we know it's like 18 hours a day on set, you and me, huh? Okay, well, I could pick a fight or I could make a joke. And I'm going to make a joke right now. You know what, you feel it though, because I've been on the other end of that too

where I've said stupid things and then you see the look wash over someone's face and then you see them switch the conversation and be really generous with you and still kind and then just keep moving on. but it sticks in your craw and you're like, oh my God, I feel like such an idiot. And then you carry, you think about it that night and the next day. Overthinking. It's almost better to just be nice and move on because it'll just keep haunting that person later on. It's cruel.

Had you gotten to work with Antoine much before? No. And I was so happy. We finally got time together. We've got great chemistry together on camera. and we always get along really well. He's just easy to act with, easy to talk with. He's so in the moment.

He is. And when you're acting with him, he really listens. He listens to what you're saying and he responds. And usually his response is some version of the line, but sometimes it's not. And that's what makes it so fun. It really does. I mean, I love the idea that your scenes together,

this episode informed past and future because we can totally visualize elementary school skills and Haley like in the same class with Lucas like paling around being dorcos but we're also getting the foreshadowing of him being a huge influence in Jamie's life yeah both things are accomplished in these scenes that you guys have that's right and it's so nice to get some of the depth for skills to I love when you get exposition about a character that doesn't feel like exposition. Yeah. Yeah, none of this episode did, which is kind of a miracle. And there was so much backstory and none of it felt like, and then my parents said to me, you know? Yeah. And it was so cool to learn about his fears

and his family and his dreams and his real worry that if he didn't get a scholarship, that was kind of it. That was a rap. That scene made me, immediately burst into tears. Same. Me too. When you read that letter, I was like, oh, there it goes. It was beautiful.

And the misdirect was so good. And I'm like literally tearing up again thinking about it. Oh my God. Him telling you how messed up it is. Yeah. And be like, that's dark. Like it was so sweet. But knowing how much was writing on that for him.

Yeah. Oh, the weight of that, how that would have felt to really accept like, okay, it's just not in the cards for me the dream that I wanted and Lucas has had a dream too by the way the basketball and the idea of having to give up one dream and here's the second one

and if this doesn't work out it's going to be really hard to find a third dreams are such a big deal when you're in high school they are at any point in life but it seems like they get harder to reach for the older you get and I liked what this teacher

was saying about you know you get a chance to reinvent yourself only so many times in life you're about to go do it right now yeah think about who you are what your dreams are what you want to be i also really liked the reality check of some of you will feel free when you leave here and for some of you will be very hard you know that's that's really nice and to your point hill like this idea that we're all supposed to just kind of play our role and how when you're around people you've grown up with, it can be really easy to fall back into those roles. And, you know, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago about friend breakups. Sometimes when your role changes, people really don't

like it. No. They don't want you to grow. They don't want you to be different. And then you figure out, you know, is this a moment of growing pains? Like, am I going to go and create new relationships with people that are going to allow me to be this bigger, better version of myself? And it's, It's all represented in this episode without having to specifically say it. That is my favorite kind of story. Yeah. I like the freedom. You know, so many times when we talk about reinventing ourselves,

it's about being a louder, more outgoing version of ourselves. And for me, it's been the exact opposite. Like, I was a performative young person. And the friendships that I've cultivated as an adult have been ones where I'm allowed to be not the decision maker and like the passive one and the quiet, the follower. Like I get to be the follower.

Yeah. And I feel very taken care of in those relationships because it's filling a need that, you know, was in void for so long. Yeah. And so this idea that some of our characters are also doing that.

It's like certain characters are going out and being bolder, but then other characters like Lucas, Lucas is letting Glenda be like the leader in this conversation, be the sharer, be the one that like sets the tone about sharing and things like that. Like I like that he kind of falls into a more passive position. I like the Peyton falls into a more passive position. I'm just like, I'm going to center you here. Let you be center. Yeah, it's not always about getting out and getting loud and bold

and things like that. Sometimes blossoming means like turning inward. And so I like the both sides of that are represented here. You know what? When you talk about that, how we're centering each other's experiences in new ways. I also really like that this is one of the first times. I feel like we've seen Haley grapple with the weight of what it means to be a pregnant teenager. Yeah. To say, like, I'm excited to meet my son and what's going to have. happened to me. What's going to happen to my dreams? You know, you say, I wrote it down. You say, I still want to leave my mark on this world. And it's so nice to see her really hold the reality, not just the fantasy, to say, I'm feeling all of these things at the same time. And I'm scared.

Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. It's a beautiful vulnerability. Yeah. I loved also the sort of the normal normalization of it that it's just this is just real life like sometimes girls get pregnant in high school and then they got to deal with how to if they want to keep their baby if they you know how they're going to handle this yeah what are you going to do and not having everybody around her make it a problem it's just normal like everybody's like okay heyley's pregnant okay yeah and she moves on and everybody supports her and it's all good and I love that and I love seeing her have that kind of system around her with the friends that she's chosen. So now she can really just settle into, okay, what does this mean for me now? It's not a massive torture about, oh my God, I'm a pregnant

teenage girl. It's, okay, I'm a pregnant teenage girl. What happens next? What's the next chapter going to hold for me? Yeah, what do I? And there's, there's a fear, but there was an excitement there too, that it's something that is, it's not, when I say normalize, it is out of the norm for most of the population but in terms of like her just not feeling alone that's special she doesn't feel alone yeah special yeah well and by the way regardless of what age women become mothers that's the key right is you either have a community that supports you and you're having an incredible experience because p.s we've got enough friends who've done it you two included it's hard. So you either have a support system and you have people who hold you through the hard

and who enable the happy to multiply. Or you feel alone and it is terrifying. Yes. And you're right. It's really lovely to see that the people in her life knowing she's made her decision are like, how can we support you? What do you need? Joy, did you feel that way when you were pregnant in real life? I mean, I feel like there's kind of this thing in storytelling in our country. I can't speak to any other countries where there's this drumbeat of like, if you become pregnant, no matter the age, if you become pregnant, you have to start over or the trajectory you were on has to pause. And if you can get back on track, you know, there's some catch-up work to do.

Like, I've just so, I was scared both of my pregnancies. the way that Haley is scared, where it's like, yeah, I'm super pumped. I'm having a baby. Also, there's, like, things that come with that, you know? Hold on. Can we talk about the stomach? Can we talk about the baby patty? Oh, my God, Heli's bet baby pad? I can't decide if I think that it's our honorable or our dishonorable mention. I loved it. Our friends at home, in this gorgeous secret.

of scenes with Joy and Antoine. Haley and skills are up on the roof. They're having this moment. She's laying down. Oh, the blocking's so good. The blocking is so good and casual. And you like, you take a little stretch. And someone in the edit bay didn't zoom in on the screen, which you can do in the edit

people. Like they can go, uh-oh, something. There's a boom in the corner of the shot. Let's zoom in to cut it out. And Joy lifts her arms over her head. And there's the pregnancy belly pad just out in all its glory. And not only the, like, part that goes down around your hips, but the center padding with the stitching around it.

Like, you see the whole thing down to the stitch lines. It was a man. You know, it was a man. Because he's like, no, she's wearing a tank top. That's a tank top under there. He's like, that's her shirt. And you're like, that's definitely not what that is. Oh, my gosh.

that awkward, like not white, not flesh-colored, pale yellow. It would just look like spanks or underwear, but except for the padding. It was just so clearly. Yeah, I'm really surprised nobody caught that. Like, nobody just punched in on the shot. It's because your blocking was so good. Like, Joy, that is one of the gifts that you have is that you, your physicality is not performative.

Like, you know just how to take up space in a scene in a really natural way. And so, of course, you laid down on that big, like, concrete block or whatever the hell you were on and just kind of laid out. And you were doing, like, cat stretches, which is what pregnant women do. And they're like, the stretching's too good. Like, we have another take where we can't see the baby pad, but we don't have the stretching in that one. So. Aw. Yeah. Stick to the stretch. I should have just crept it out. Whatever. Well, okay, honorable mention to my baby belly pad then. Baby belly. Jenks. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the, the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, we have some listener questions. Guys, that went by so fast. That episode went by so fast. Yeah. I want to watch this one again. I mean, all right. Me too. It was so good.

All right, our listener question from Brianna. I noticed conversations going on in the background with main cast members. Are you all really talking or just moving your mouths? How does it work as being a background extra, especially when it's a main cast member? Hmm. That's an interesting question. It depends on the day. I mean, sometimes you've been there so long and you have nothing to talk about. So you just say watermelon, watermelon, watermelon over and over again, and it looks like you're talking. And then sometimes you're having real conversations with people and you just mouth it and you have it quietly. So they can't hear it. Yeah, because you can't make noise. Yeah. But that I think is part of why when it's us, especially, you get great background acting because you're just mouthing to each other. And sometimes that makes you laugh, but you have to laugh silently. And then it makes the other person laugh because you know that you can't make noise.

And if you've got 20 background actors who all think they're whispering, they're very loud on the mic. Like the microphones can hear everything. So especially when it's us in the background, we're really serious about not making noise because we do not want to do another take because we're being irresponsible in the background of somebody else's shot. but it, I think, I think that can actually make for the best background acting because you're just like, what the fuck are you saying? What is that word? Yo, I'm going to promise you, I am always talking shit when I am like extra. If I'm in the background of your scene, I am talking shit and I delight in it. Because that's like the one time where people's focus is elsewhere, they're like focused on the people who are actually doing the scene work. And I'm like, okay, here's what we're going to do now. Now we're going to tell secrets. yes what i love being background in scenes like that and like i might have more of a sense memory about doing that stuff than about doing the actual scenes just sitting in the background being like these motherfuckers oh yeah hey oh wait we need to give an honorable mention to billy your brother

who's in the bathroom with bevin that was so funny i forgot about that that was about the time that like Billy had a crush on her and I think that they threw him that bone just so they could like be in the same scene together like there was a point where I definitely wanted Bevin to date my brother because I was just like oh this would be so cool Christmas would be so fun if we're related it didn't work out didn't work out um but yeah Billy had a crush on her for a while there and I think that they just thought they were being real cute throwing him in there at the urinal with her they gave him a shot we've got one more questions from Liz she says if you could play a male character from the show who would it be and why

Dan always it's because Dan's the guy you know he's got the media storyline it's so fun um my first instinct was Nathan yeah I want to play Lucas like I do because because a lot of reasons he got paid the most and and I love money uh no but also I think think that Lucas had some really interesting things to do. And yeah, I, yeah. And I just want to brood. That's it. Like, I can only relate to emo characters. Yeah, I was going to say, would you, would you want to play him even more emo? Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Not only would he be, like, wearing eyeliner, but he'd be wearing, like, the used t-shirts and, you know, like, sad, sad bands. He'd, like, love paramour, you know? Love it.

Oh, my gosh. What a singer she is, though. Yeah. Oh, that voice. We're spinning. Let's do it. What do I have this week? Oh, my God. Yeah. Who's the most likely to move in with you? I mean, you did have people move in with you. I always have people move in with me. I just want to live on a commune. I want to live with all my best friends. Yeah. Bevin lived with you. Who else lived with you? Bevin lived with me. Daniela was with me like most weekends.

Lee was with Bevan and I in L.A. a lot. Yeah, I just, I love having people around. Jenny, my best friend moved in with me when we were still doing the show. The whole reason that Jensen and Dineal set me up with Jeffrey is to get me off their couch. Like, I had posted up in their L.A. house. And Jensen was like, I only get me. to see my girlfriend on the weekends, you can't be here. Go away. Go away. And I also, I did the same thing to Elizabeth Arnois. I have that little sister energy where I'm like, can I come over? Can I come over?

We're very similar in that way. I feel like I have the big sister energy where everyone moves in with me, but that's my dream come true. Like last weekend, I woke up on a Sunday morning. I'd gone to a friend's birthday the night before. I'd made a plan to get bagels with my friends. And they apparently had gotten up very early and gone and gotten through the line. There's a line at a bagel place? Oh, at our favorite bagel store, the lines can be like two hours long. What? And they had gotten through the line so fast for some weird reason that they were like,

well, she hasn't texted yet. We'll just go over. And everybody has a key to my house. So I woke up to people. Oh, I woke up to three friends sitting in the guest room with coffees and bagels. and 10 minutes after I woke up, four more people walked in the door and I was like,

this is the best fucking day of my life. This is the best day. Like, all my people are here, we're in pajamas. This is all I want. Yeah. I love that. It's all I want.

I love it. Okay, so who from the cast moved in with you? I mean, Bevan? Yeah, Bevan and I lived together. Okay. Which character is the most likely to move in with you? I mean, Brooke also moves in with everyone.

That's true. She moves in with Lucas. She moves in with Rutgers. Rachel, she lives in with Haley. She lived with Peyton for a hot second. That's true. So Hillary in real life, Brooke and fake life. Yeah, I'll just, anybody who'll take me, I'll show up.

Like a sad little pauper. Well, guys, that was a nice palate cleanser. I really appreciate this episode for its bottle quality. It exists in the middle of nowhere. We want to see a high school production of this episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man.

All right, what do we have next week? Season 4, episode 14, sad songs for dirty lovers. Ooh. Sounds fun. Dirty. Okay, guys. I love me to see you next week. Thanks for joining.

Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school. Drama Girl, Drama Girl, all about them high school.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama queen, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queen. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.