Drama Queens - When Fact Meets Fiction ᐧ EP608

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

The girls discuss the arrival of Austin Nichols to the show. They break down some amazing chemistry you may not have noticed. Plus, what happens when the show becomes a little too real?! It’s a good thing you’re here because there’s a lot going on!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Queens. You guys, season

six, episode eight, our life is not a movie, or maybe. I love that, or maybe. I mean, this was like a Halloween episode. It was October 27th of 2008. I mean,

oh, I feel like such a buzzkill bitching about these episodes, but this one was really poorly written. We were adorable. We were fucking adorable. We were so cute, and I have to say, one of my best friends was over here, and we were watching the episode last night, and she was like, oh, some of this dialogue is really sticky. She goes, but sidebar, the real takeaway of this episode for me is Hillary's so hot. I was like, agree.

That's really nice. We were acting our asses off. We were acting our asses off. Okay, friends at home, this episode, oh, God, I'm just going to read the synopsis and then we're going to get into it. All right, Lucas's novel receives unexpected and surprising interest, as does Marvin from his new intern. That is such a weird transition, even in the synopsis who wrote this. Jamie grows enamored of Sam while she continues her rebellious facade. Owen is back and trying to win Brookover again.

Peyton reconnects with family and Nathan's basketball comeback gains momentum. I'm so thrilled to see that Peter Kowalski directed this episode because... This is why we all looked pretty. We looked great. This is why we looked hot. Peter is just such a dear. You guys have heard us talk about him before. He was a camera operator on our show,

and then he became the director of photography, and then he started directing, and we just love him so much. But even Peter's beautiful eye could not make some of the things we had to say less tricky to get out of our mouths. You know, I mean, okay, so you and I, we've had a big week.

I was just out at Sundance, and you have been promoting Junction with Brian Greenberg and there is something about working with or like seeing the movies from people that we love and who are very dear friends with and seeing them climb this mountain right and like get to the top of this thing and nail it

and it's so fun to watch and I don't know about your experience with Brian and Junction but having been friends with Megan for so many years Megan Park, who is married to Tyler Hilton. Yeah. Seeing her movie at Sundance, I can't wait for everyone to see my old ass because it is about young women, written by a young woman, directed by a young woman, DP'd by another young woman. And the representation and the lens is so warm and fuzzy, and it felt so real.

And I was with the two little actresses in the movie afterwards, just like in team. years for them. I was so happy for them because it was Maddie Ziegler and Macy Stella and these little girls who were like 20, 21 years old just got to do a movie that was so real and so lovely. And I told them, I'm like, bottle this. This isn't normal. Most young women have to do really corny shit. And you guys just got to do something so awesome. And I'm so excited for you. And I geeked out really hard on these girls because they, by the way, they're huge one, Tree Hill fans. yes thank you girls let's get them it was so cool to see young women accurately represented instead of this clunky like like bullshit at the doorway in every scene where it's like hey i really like you

you know that yeah there was always like a word tagline in all of these scenes yeah i kind of like i kind of like doing this with you good because we're getting married i was like what is happening and like and it and it really is a testament i think to you guys that you could pull it off but i know what you mean in the same in the same way you're talking about how these girls in megan's movie got to authentically be themselves it's been so special to see the final product that brian put together and especially because in injunction he and i play spouses who are now divorced but you know we're co-parenting and and the just the way we get to talk to each other feels real like things are strained and hard and then there are these moments of levity still where you see how much these two

people have loved each other and still live each other but you you see them in authentic conflict and then you see these bursts of their life and their history and I think maybe it felt like such shorthand because you know we've been friends for 20 years yeah but it it was so nice to feel like I was watching in all of our scenes a real partnership and not what we had to do on TV sometimes, which was like, we're partners. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, we didn't have to have like a song or a button on it. We should have had that WB top hat and cane like the frog hat and all the days.

Just make him dance across the screen every time we have to say something stupid. There was so much repetitive stuff in this episode between the characters. Like every character was talking like every other character because it was our Voldemort who wrote this and he was very self-involved and he wanted every character to sound like him and I can see how miserable I am and it's really hard to watch at this point

but for those of you who hate it when I go dark what I did like is all of the relationship pairings I thought Brooke and Owen Haley and Nathan Lucas and Peyton Millie and mouth. I thought that the relationship pairings and the chemistry between actors

was really strong. Yes. And maybe that comes out more when the script is shit. Yeah. Look, I think sometimes, you know, I won't say what episode,

but I do remember an episode that we shot that was directed by a director who was first time on our show who was so, like, objectively bad, came in and we were like, did you do any prep like did you go on a tech scout how are you here directing an episode of

television like you don't know do you know what's in this script like it was such a surreal experience but i will never forget that because all of us as a cast and all of the crew was like uh oh we're really in trouble everybody stepped up and worked even harder and came up with solutions and like we put together like a strategic response team. It's triage. And yeah, it was full triage. It was like, you know, red tag, yellow tag. And weirdly the episode wound up being great

because like I think everybody hustled a little harder. And I wonder sometimes like you're saying if we have that in episodes like this where some of the writing's not that strong or things are repetitive or sweet mouth and Gigi are having to do the same exact stuff they had to. do last week. I mean, the worst. And yet, people make it sweet. And you do see like a connection between them. And it's not just base, gross. You see a little nostalgia in it. You see the way Nathan responds to them. Like, everybody made it work, even though some of what was on the page was

just not that great. And I do think that's something that I really love about us. Like, our little cohort had such good chemistry, and we had so much fun together that when we were like, can you believe we have to say this dumb shit? We figured out how to do it. Y'all, there was some dumb shit this episode. Can I say what I loved, though? Yeah. I loved coming into this slam ball game as all the women were sort of collecting. I loved our little coven in the stands.

Yeah, coven. everybody was like spicy and there was sarcasm and stress and all of it was just so great aside from I don't know who told me that that one shoulder tank top was a good idea oh my god your boobs are cute in that shirt I mean I think this was the year that those like sticky bras got real like popular in our wardrobe department because there's definitely like some extra help going on there in that one strap shirt and I was like honestly thank you it's the opposite of my purple dress at the end of the episode I'm clearly wearing the sticky things but I'm wearing them too low so I look like I'm the lowest grandma because the V-neck is so down here also that dress looked like it was two sizes too big for you I was

like how are we not putting you in clothes that fit six years into the show I promise my boobs don't hang that low and not that there's anything wrong with low boobs but just those weren't mine um that killed me. That's never ideal. Season of the sticky boob. Is that the title of this episode? I loved you yelling at Owen. I love Brooke just coming in hot. I also loved because everyone's in the dynamic in the beginning that then you see play out, you know, Millie's getting competitive with mouth. Brooks yelling at Owen. Like everybody's doing their thing. I love Jamie as the catch-up device for Sam. They used to kiss. And then he's like, they used to kiss too, mouth and Gigi, but mouth kisses Millison now. And Sam is just like, this kid, the truth telling about grown-ups

relationship drama from a five-year-old is like a chef's kiss thing for me, because Jackson's so cute, it breaks me. Why did we make him wear that very distracting one fake tooth? The flipper tooth. Why couldn't he just have a missing tooth? That would have been so cute. Yeah. There were elements here that were very distracting for me, and this is just production, you know, bitchery. I don't like the fake tooth. My vote is no. Yeah. Because I have a kid that's this age, and there's plenty of kids her age that are missing teeth. Some kids lose them earlier than others. Yeah. And then the other thing was anytime we have a scene in the stands, we are told as actors. So we're going to put in a whole bunch of noise. So it sounds really, really noisy. So you guys have to yell over the noise. Your lines. And then we'll put in enough sound later that it sounds natural. So you're sitting there saying, Lucas, what happened on your phone call? And they did not bring up the background noise on this scene, Sophia.

No. We were stranded in our audio here. Wasn't great. It was a lot of fake clapping. Whatever, man. We looked good. We looked good. We sold our lines.

That's what matters. And the slam ball looked cool. It did. And that's one of the things I will say. It was really fun to watch this episode with one of my girls. friends because she was like, what is this sport? I want to play this. Is this as fun as it looks? I was like, yeah, we all turned into a bunch of kids and we treated every lunch like recess when the slam ball court was on stage seven. We were on the trampolines all the time. James looked

good. Unbelievable. Like you realize how good a basketball player he is because there's something about the length of time that he gets to be in the air off a trampoline allows for that super slow motion and you're just like, hello, how did this boy not get poached to be a Nike athlete when we were shooting our show? Like some brand endorsement person failed. They failed because look at him. There is someone out there that got fired from a few companies because they didn't think to bring in Nathan Scott. I agree. Yeah. I totally agree. No, he's just beautiful. It's like watching a swan, you know. He's really beautiful out there. And, you know, it does look violent. It does look scary. I understand Haley's hesitation. I don't know how many episodes poor joy

has to wince and be worried about his back. Yeah. Yeah. Serious business. She's been doing it for how many episodes. I also like that they figured out a way to raise the stakes because of Nathan's injury and Haley helps do that for the audience with her, you know, genuine worry about is her husband going to, you know, be paralyzed from this sport or not? And then at the same time, you get a lot of comedic relief in it because of Owen and the way that Brooke is yelling at him and they're kind of play fighting and they're flirting, but they're fighting. And Owen is essentially acting like a bouncer for Nathan on the court. I did like that. It made me giggle. And I really, I will say I like that the dynamics in the same scene gave us

stakes, but also laughter. Also, Sam and Peyton being the same person. Obsessed. Here's how I view Brooke and Peyton. It's like, you know, with magnets, they're the same thing, right? But there's different poles. And the same pole is not attracted to itself. But the two different poles are locked in for eternity. And Brooke and Peyton are those different poles of the same magnet. And so for Brooke to find another little baby Peyton to groom and like raise up. I love that she's getting to relive our high school years through this little monster. You know, it's just messing everything up.

Because, you know, we also see Peyton drawn to other people that are like Brooke. There's just something about those different personalities. Every TV show has it. It's the trope of like the blonde and the brunette, the rowdy one and the shy one, you know. And I like that we have that iconic dynamic that we're now getting to see repeat with sweet Sam. Well, and I love like the perfection of the way the yin and yang fit together in us. Yeah. Everything that's perfect about our friendship drives me fucking crazy with Sam.

And it's like in all the ways that I vote, that. you know, me and Brooke have always loved Peyton's saltiness and humor and all the things. Sam's saltiness drives me nuts. Yeah. And Brooke and Peyton used to sneak out together and they'd be out all night together and they broke all the rules together. And now this tiny Peyton is sneaking out of my house and I want to wring her neck. And it's so great. That's exactly it.

It's like Peyton started throwing like trick club nights and Brooke thought it was awesome. It was like, yeah, let's stay out. We're going to make out with bands. whatever. Yeah. And now that this other little girl's doing the exact same thing, it is apocalyptic. Mm-hmm. I mean, what Sam does in close over bros with breaking in and the party and the red solo cups

and the spray paint, it's literally our graduation party in the abandoned house. Oh, my God. You're right. It's the same thing. But now that I'm in the parental role, it's unacceptable. It's like you're only a couple years older. I know. It's not even like we're the age we are now, where everything business is off.

We're 22 and she's 15. Yeah. I really liked that whole dynamic. And I don't want to like jump too far ahead. But I really thought it was special that Brooke had all this comedic stuff, but also some pretty firm interactions with these young children. The way that Brooke reprimands Jamie in this episode for disappearing was incredibly important. Because he can't go wandering off with people.

And the way the book reprimands and sets boundaries for Sam, also super important. It was like, that's the kind of parenting that we wanted for ourselves. That's what Brooke and Payton wanted is just someone to hold us accountable and pretend to care. Yeah. Don't leave us for months at a time. I think it's really interesting that you see Sam's response to, you know, being reprimanded to immediately assume she's being kicked out. Oh, yeah, because that's what happened every other time.

Yeah, but for Brooke to say no, like, I'm setting a boundary for you, and this is your boundary in this home. It begins to give Sam what she's always been missing, and, you know, you hear this, you always hear kids need structure. Yeah. And, like, they really do. They really need it, and they create. brave it. My kids love structure. They don't give a shit if dad gets mad. But if mom gets mad,

it means something because I don't like to. They, yeah, my son will tell people, they'll be like, Gus, you're making such good grades right now. And he'll say, it's because my mom cracked. Because I, you know, they like a firm boundary. They like to know where they stand with you. And so for Sam to have this, good for her. I wanted it. Instead, you know, we were, scoundrels. We were feral, as you call Sam in this episode. It's a little feral cat. And I can totally understand why the little kid, Jamie, is enthralled with this older bad girl. Yeah. Yeah, it's his first crush, but it's so early that it's like not even romantic yet. No. He's just, he just, he's googly-eyed when he looks at her and

It's so sweet. Yeah, that's the ticket. But I also, I don't know, I like that while Brooke is trying to do all of this parenting, because she's really the only person parenting in this episode. That is when Owen's trying to sneak back in. He's not trying to sneak back in when she's being, like, cute and young, sexy and going out. It's like when she's in the thick of responsibility with all the children at her house, he's like, I'll come over now.

Just to prove that I really meant it. Sweet Owen. Yeah. I also, there's elements, and maybe it's because we are through Sam jumping back to who we were in high school. I love the elements that remind us of that. The throwback, you know, the sort of identical party to our graduation party. I love the throwback to middle school dynamics with Nathan coming to the door. And then realizing that Owen's right on the other side of it.

Like, it really is fun to get to pull back into those memories with these characters. James had fun this episode. You could tell how much fun he was having because in the beginning he's playing slam ball. And then he gets tangled up in the Owen Brooks shit. And then he gets tangled up in the mouth, Gigi shit. And then he's being super flirty with his wife. which I liked I love it

and he had a great scene with Lucas too the brother scene where Nathan's making pancakes and watch Shia LaBuff to play him in the movie I was so into everyone sort of jockeying for who they want to play them in the film

and that scene in particular I thought was so sweet because you're right you can see what a good mood James is in every day and I love that because they're having so much fun and it's such a light conversation that he's the one who looks at Lucas like hey you big dummy have you not considered the women you need to talk to yeah like it's not about you my guy hello yeah yeah it's so funny when he's like well yeah and and he's like and brooks the other 50

percent like do you remember your own life it is it it made me really really giggle out loud yeah he he was great this episode and i think seeing nathan be funny is not what we're used to we're so used to him being like oh um we're um e or that's what he's been he's been eore and now he's fucking tigger man dude's bouncing all over the place being funny a little bit worked up I like it. Yeah, it's so great. His advice to Owen is great. You know, I mean, he's like, what did he say?

He talks about, like, all the worst mistakes you've ever made. And he goes, yeah, what? He goes, of the hundred dumbest mistakes you've ever made, one through 99, was blowing it with Brooke Davis. And, well, what's the other one? The haircut, the drug addiction? Yeah. What was wrong with his haircut?

Nothing. It was just such a troll. and it was so funny. Poor Owen. We're not going to let him get off the mat, are we? We're sure not. Well, I liked that he bounced everyone out of Brooke's store. I like authority.

Yeah. Yelling at a bunch of 15-year-olds. Yeah. That's the thing. Owen is essentially serving as everybody's bouncer and bodyguard in this episode. He's bodyguarding Nathan. He's bouncing the kids out. And it is a really fun way to use just the natural physicality of someone like Joe.

Joe is one of the biggest, physically biggest human beings, any of us knows. Yes. And when he gets to operate out of that place as a defender, and especially as a comedic defender of other people, it's so cool. It's like he's so used to having to play like a werewolf for a Viking or whatever. because he's big and it's nice to see him get to do comedy i love it be funny he was in rampage with geoffrey and we took gus to that red carpet i had just given birth to george and so i was like a mess and so jeff is having to do press and i'm standing there on the red carpet with gus

and joe comes up and he is just a wall of a man and i'm like joe buddy and like we hug and Gus is looking like, how do you know this person? Who is this? Gus's eyeballs. I had to put him back on his head. He was so just like, what is that? I didn't know humans grew that size. Yeah, he's super imposing.

But he and Nathan don't look dissimilar in size. Did we have James standing on something? Or is James that tall? James isn't that tall? James is pretty tall. Isn't he like 6'2 and Joe's like 6'5? Am I right? I don't know.

They were lined up next to each other and some of the slam ball stuff where even I was confused. I'm like, I was there. We had a lot of really tall boys on our show. We had the tallest cast on TV. It's wild. And the other show, they were, you know, much, much, much shorter. Our boys, and people would comment on that all the time when we did press. They're like, this cast is big.

Yeah. Okay. It made doing like coverage shots kind of hard because we would have to stand on boxes so you could see us over their shoulders. Oh my God, Apple Boxes. all the time. All the time. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn SageBurn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Well, we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare

and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So after slam ball, after Lucas announces that his book is going to get made into a movie. Mm-hmm. That's thrilling. We've got, I almost feel like in a way, they leaned so hard into the comedy in this episode to misdirect the dramatic surprise about the movie at the end. Because all the way through, everybody's laughing, you know, and they even hearken back in this episode, they've got Haley, I'm just looking at my notes, Haley's reading the same article in B. Davis magazine that you read. Yeah, what is that? there's something going on where they're really trying to lean into the you know the cutesy like funny nature of these relationships

and were they trying to make B Davis magazine a real thing is that why we keep popping it on the show I don't know I don't think they ever actually tried to launch it but they wanted it to basically on our show be the placeholder for in style I remember those conversations. Like, it should look like in Style Magazine. It should have similar, you know, articles and whatnot.

They wanted it to feel like it was a really, really big deal. But I caught that in this where I was like, oh, wait, are Nathan and Haley going to have like a moment? Because she says, we split everything in the house like 50, 50, right? And then it sort of went away, but... It didn't do anything. Yeah, there were all these funny moments. Then it goes into, you know, everyone at close over bros and Jamie and Sam skateboarding around the store. And it's where Brooke Davis coins the term slunt because she says calling her mama slut is not mean enough.

Dude, you know there was a band in like the late 90s, early 2000s in New York called Slunt? Because one of the chicks in it was a VJ. Yeah. And I remember being so scandalized. And her name was Abby. I remember she was like, The metal VJ. And I remember being so scandalized.

And I was like, oh, my God, what's your bat's name? And she was like, slant. And you're like, oh, okay. I'll be there. Wow. Great. It just made me giggle so much. I was like, God, we should really bring that term back around.

And everything's really upbeat. Here's the deal. That scene of you and Millie and Haley standing around scripted terribly. So much exposition. The writing is terrible. And you guys took it and you spun like Rumpur Stiltskin and turned the hay to gold. Like just the readings that you guys gave, you gave it so much life. Because otherwise it was just three girls standing in a unnatural circle making very expository remarks.

And you guys crushed it. Bravo. I mean, I will say, I think we found, I'm just texting you my notes because you don't have yours. Mine are really piecemeal. Sorry. Thanks for doing my homework. But, yeah, I remember the feeling of that. I remember how funny some of it was. I remember when we decided to do, like, bad TV voice.

And you've got, it goes from Haley to Millie to me being like, wow, yeah, what do you think of that, Brooke? Gee, I wonder. And me being like, I don't like you. Like, we found all these little devices. Well, you're making fun of the dialogue by making it. cheesy TV talk. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. Yeah, we found these devices to like really have a good time with each other. And in the midst of it, you've got these kids cutting through the, you know, the shots on skateboards. And it's Sam and it's Jamie and, you know, Jamie says Sam's his favorite

girl now. And everything is just light. And I really think it helps with the Mr. Act because you cut from the kids using close over bros as a skate park to Julian. Baker walking up the steps of Lucas and Peyton's house, and you have no idea that he's about to be a villain. Okay, so I'm saying this for the benefit of our producers who are listening in. Are we booking Austin for the next episode? Because we have to. So when Sophia and I were just in Wilmington, and you know, with Bevan and DeNeil and Sammy, I told them my Austin Nichols story. And I feel like he needs to be here. He needs to be here for it, though. He I don't know.

Yeah. It is hard to watch this season because it is kind of undoing a lot of the work that we have done over the course of watching this show. It was like we knew when we started Drama Queens that we were going to have to talk about the shit. And for a long time, watching the episodes was feeling really, really healthy because it was like, oh, it's cathartic. We're getting everything out. And now it's really difficult for me to see outside. of just like the toxic, uncomfortable shit of that year. So I do like to focus on making fun of Austin

and subject matter like that. He's going to love it. Oh, I can't wait. I posted a picture on Instagram of me with an owl out at Sundance. And that motherfucker like 30 minutes later is sending me a picture of the owl that lives in his tree and calling it his lady friend. I'm just like, that's who he is.

He's the guy that like, just takes pictures of owls in his tree. He's, we've all, we've all realized that in the ways that we thought so many of our sweet male co-stars on this show were like the little brothers we were going to have to rear, like, he is. And we, and we love him. And I mean that as a compliment, by the way, like, good God, some person's going to say something snarky on the internet.

Like, we're family. We love each other. That's all. My favorite memory of Austin is so he came in very much like Julian Baker to our show, right? It was very like cock of the walk. I think those were his Ray Bands. Probably he had been on HBO's John from Cincinnati. Yeah.

He actually did with Willie Garson. That show was so good. He had been doing, wasn't he on Deadwood too? He'd been doing a really big shit. Incredible work. And so he came into our show and it was a little like, oh, okay. He, this isn't someone from our bubble. But then when Jeffrey was doing The Walking Dead and I went to go visit the first year Jeff was on The Walking Dead, I ran into a very different Austin who was very, like, respectful and like, how are you doing, Jeffrey?

Very nice to see you. And like, really reserved. And I was like, that's not the guy I know. The guy I know is, you know, I'm the big shit in the room. And so I, I don't know, I really have enjoyed knowing Austin all the. years at this point because he's a wonderful actor he's really fun he's really like extracurricular stuff we did a lot of stuff like hangout wise after work um and he made a real point out of making friends with my friends in town and i i appreciated that he valued them and i really respected that

about him um so it's fun to see i'd forgotten what the beginning of julian baker was getting into his SUV. I was like, wait, he has a driver? What is going on here? Yeah. It was so funny because when the call first came in, you know, at the early part of the episode, when you see Lucas under the bleachers on the phone, I was like, oh my God, this is the beginning of the storyline. I wonder when, when does like the audience meet Julian? And then it's this episode. I had no idea it happened this fast. There's a scene in the upcoming episode. episode, I think, if my memory serves me correctly, that I remember vividly. So I knew it was coming.

I just didn't remember how cryptic Julian was. I forgot that when he was first being introduced, there was a possibility of it going into Matt Barland, right? Where he's like, sometimes I just get obsessed with things. Yeah. Like he's saying really cryptic shit, where it's like these tree hill kids have been through it enough times, like, should be red flag, red flag. And instead, Lewis is like, well, I guess I won't call Peyton.

Let me sign this paper. Yeah. And it was interesting knowing, obviously, the, the tension that they were building for the Julian and Peyton and Lucas Love Triangle, it was so wild to see that scene rather than knowing nothing, knowing what was coming, because I was like, oh, my God, they really do have him being kind of creepy. and there's so much pressure, like, oh, sign this before she gets here. Your agent says to sign it, yeah, because you should sign it.

I was like, wow, this, I don't know if I read it as being so creepy then, but it made me uncomfortable. Julian becomes, like, kind of goofy in later seasons, right? Oh, well, yeah, he was supposed to be the, like, bad boy movie producer, super cool guy. And then, and by the way, they also said he was. would be there for a time maybe break you guys up that you know there was a lot of apology from the boss that was like I had no idea this overlapped with your real life how weird and I was like dude I've dated like three people in 10 years what do you mean you had no idea you're my nightmare

and he was like promise you guys will never have like you'll barely ever have scenes together but it'll certainly never be romantic and then when they shifted it and and did what they going to do anyway um and julian of course becomes the person that brook marries um the hilarity of it was there were other dynamics at play uh-huh and our creepy boss didn't want all of julian baker's like cool hot hollywood movie star character friends coming into town oh he he did not want um any more attractive young male cast members on our set to pull attention away from him

him being our boss and so he is he he essentially like emotionally castrated Julian and made him into a nerd who didn't know how to give a high five oh that's right he couldn't high five yeah he had he had a six year old be his best man because he had no friends

just wild there's so much wild wild and we all were like what is happening? It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years.

carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's hard to watch these episodes because it's like when you go into a cat house and you can smell the ammonia, even though you don't see the cats.

Yeah. I can smell the ammonia on all the different storylines here. Like, obviously, there was some manipulation happening in your storyline. In my storyline, everyone knows that my childhood friend died in Iraq. And it was a horrible death. And I was really struggling with that. And it was probably the thing I was most vulnerable about, most vulnerable about at this point. And so we're eight episodes in.

I'm still not speaking to our boss, right, until he scripts in this U.S.O stuff because in my personal life, I had just gone on a huge U.S.O tour over the summer, and it was really meaningful to me. And so you've got this person who's been so awful to you, giving you this gift, and it's what narcissists do. They love bomb you when they can't control you. And this was a really complicated storyline for me because I, wanted to do nice things for the troops. I wanted to draw attention to them and honor them. But it was coming from someone who was not safe.

And it's the ammonia. It's that piss smell. I just like, oh, I want to like it. I'm really struggling. And then the mouth and Gigi stuff, too. Yeah. He thinks he's mouth. And so he's writing all about young women that throw themselves at the boss.

And no, hard pass. We're all literally running from you, hiding, and we have a text chain to make sure no one ever winds up in a room alone with you. It's like our emergency line, and that's how you see yourself. Like, bro, you are embarrassing. It's interesting. I didn't know if you were going to want to get into the behind the scenes on the U.S.O stuff because seeing you an earnest in the episode, I was like, God, I'm so happy for this. and because of how obviously painful and traumatic that was in your life, not only to be able to highlight an organization you cared about,

but knowing how safe you felt with earnest and in your storyline. And the fact that it interestingly worked to bring Peyton back to the mick of it all. And it was actually a really good tie-in for, yeah, I asked him to play a show for us, and I'm still waiting to hear back. It didn't feel like a stretch. It actually really, really works for these half-siblings and their storyline with their estranged dad. And it was a really beautiful scene between you guys.

It was nice to see you revisit old spaces in this healthy way as the adult versions of your characters. And it made me, like as your friend, it made me really emotional because it made me think about not only how much fun we had doing the upcoming concert, how special it felt, how cool it was,

how it felt like this really huge way to use the privilege of this platform of a TV show, but it had such ripple effects. Like how much that whole experience working with that organization affected you, like a lot of us went on to do U.S.O tours because you introduced us to the organization

and it's one of the like most indelible good memories I have of the entire run of our show and and to know oh sorry it's making me emotional just looking at you because you're emotional like to know that because we were privileged enough to be there with you and and be your community when Scott passed away that like for years these amazing things happened in his memory because of the way that you like chose to do something good with how much you loved your friend who you lost like that is like a top five one tree hill moment for me and you did that I love you so like our boss but you're the best I love you thank you yeah I didn't like that we had to film that scene in front of of a military cemetery that sucked and that was like a little bit of subtext that I didn't tell

anybody because like what am I going to say to the locations like hey I don't want to see all the white graves stacked up you know like that yeah like this feels too hard I've been to that funeral why are we even projecting that you know but you're right like earnest earnest was so safe in a way that makes me sad we didn't have more of him but Peyton needed that she needed a guy she could depend on and

I love that we had the Mick talk it made everything make sense the fact that Mick and Peyton never talked about Derek was weird and so being able to you know bookend the relationship by just like addressing it was great

I love I love the way Ernest looks in a uniform I love how seriously he takes it. I love that he's such a stoic, stern man. You know, like, he's the opposite of Peyton in so many ways. And while I thought the dialogue that we had together in our scene was kind of dorky. I loved. A little clunky, but you did beautiful work with it.

I love that you could tell what we really meant. Like, we're on an island, the two of us kids that nobody wants, you know? in my perfect world, Peyton befriends her brother's mom, you know? Like, why isn't Peyton going to their house for Thanksgiving? Yeah. I hope in, in what do they call it, the megaverse? Yeah. Peyton just goes over to Brother Derek's house and hangs out with his maternal side of the family.

There's lots of good stuff that's teased with all the U.S.O stuff. And we really, we had such a magical time. I mean, how many sold, because there were. people deploying the night that we went and did that and we'll talk more about it when we see that episode but we kissed so many people goodbye and then you like can I hug and it was like yeah yeah just sort of kissing people goodbye and you know I probably kissed more people that day than the summation of my life um so sweet sometimes you have to have a kiss parade you guys sometimes you just want to hold someone by their little cheeks and give them a peck because it's the

moment. It's the moment. It's the moment. Pre-COVID. We don't do that shit anymore. Absolutely not. I barely shake hands anymore. But back then, we were kissing soldiers left and right. I know. I have to think about this messaging. I'm like, are people going to come up and be like, well, Hillary loves kisses? Let's just. No. Don't. Don't do it. No. Don't do it. Yeah. Peyton kind of being off on her own island this episode, I had a number of these episodes back to back to back to back to back. Because I'm totally isolated with Derek in this one. Lucas and I had a very isolated episode. I had another, when we were in Vegas, we were isolated. Like, season six, I'm on, I don't see people, really. Yeah. I wonder if, do you feel like that's because they were trying to settle into the couples again? Because, you know,

we start, we start the episode together, all the girls. We do have these moments of, of, of community, but you were saying it earlier. They really did do a lot with these couples. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't really know. I can't, I can't really think of where it's going aside from, you know, the, the, the, the reveal of Julian and knowing how weird that's going to be and knowing that we're going to have this big upcoming concert, which was so amazing. But I don't, I don't really remember what else. is going to happen which is wild like watching this episode when we when sam snuck out i was like well where's she going where's she taking jamie like what's i literally didn't remember that she

threw a party and close over bros i didn't remember any of that which is bizarre um i i really liked how joy tackled the haley of it all in this episode because she's had to say the same thing for two seasons now over and over and over again i'm worried i'm worried i'm worried i'm worried him, right, and she took every single one of those lines that she's already said and set them with a smile and a laugh and like a joking tone in this episode, and it made all the difference. Like, it was fresh and it was cool, and I like the fun that they had together because she's not nagging him.

She's genuinely like, well, just don't get hurt, okay? Let's say it, but say it's sexy. yeah yeah i like that there's a seriousness to the subject matter they're discussing but that they're in such a good place that they're doing it in a lighthearted way and that they're trying especially haley is trying to be positive for him because that's real life like real life is a it's a wash of so many emotions at the same time and it is it is really nice to see them flirting and having a good time together, even though there's this backdrop of anxiety. Anxiety is the right word.

When he's doing that thing where he's wincing while she plays piano, and she's like, what? I can't play with you making that face. And he's like, exactly. I loved that. Yeah. That worked for me. Yeah. That was really great.

Okay. I like Julian Baker letting everyone know that it's really the writers that are the big money guy. I was like, guys. What first time writer do you know who's ever made $300,000 to write a script? Most writers have to turn in their first scripts on spec and pray that they get paid for them. Yeah, yeah. That was not accurate.

That was hilarious. Cool for Lucas. Good for him. Yeah. I don't know. Between the digs that was distracting. I'm trying to think what else I like. Oh, we need to talk about the mouth and milly of it all and, and Gigi, because that little Kelsey is such a good actor.

She is. I can't imagine her parents, because she was still a kid, right? How old was she at this point? I mean. We never knew her real age. I think she was 14 when she first started on the show, so she might have been 18 at this point. 17, 18. She was a baby.

Yeah. And the whole, you know, mouth has to overcome this aggressive female thing. And do the right thing. It's really distressing. Oh, my God. Our producer thinks she was only 17 when she had to do this. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a weird vibe. Even the weirdness of them. I mean, they dressed her up like a. man's fantasy of a college girl. The stilettos? Collared shirts and little Argyle vests with mini skirts and stilettos. It was so

over the top and weird and they kept saying like, oh well college, college, this, that. Like, it, you know, calling her the hot intern. Like, it really, it just leans into this deep, like generations old

misogynistic stereotype. Instead of GGR classmate, we all went to school with her and yet people are only referring to her as the hot intern which is weird yeah it's very bizarre and it's also just bizarre like look maybe i'm crazy maybe this just isn't in our wheelhouse in our community but like i've never seen a woman flirt like this with anyone never it's so strange the person who wrote this has never actually been flirted with because Because women are much more clever and subtle and have a good time when they're flirting. And this is just like blatant Neanderthal over the head shit that a man who has never been hit on would come up with.

Yep. Sexy. Hey, sexy. Hey, sexy, sexy, sexy, sexy. And then like you hit on his girlfriend in front of him. But like even having her flirt with Millie, you know, you've got great legs. whole thing was just so weird, and yet Kelsey is such a great little actor, and she's so sweet that it just bubbles out of her, her goodness. And so I feel like in the hands of so many

other people, it would have felt scary. And like, Gigi seemed, like, if you really think about the way she's behaving, this is a person who is mentally unhinged. It's like Nanny Carey, like, Crazy. Yes. And she just seems so sweet. And it's, I don't know, sweet Kelsey, just hats off to you. You didn't deserve it. But you're perfect. So many women on our show. We've got Nanny Carey being a crazy, you're sexy, you're sexy person. Deb is like sex starved. We've got Gigi being like crazy, sexy, sexy. How many crazy sexy girls do we have on our show at any given time? since my frigid wasn't going to do it just got my low boobs

trying to ward off Julian I don't know get out of here I'm finally happy that knowing that you're going to get that reveal and you guys were so good I mean the shock for you

when Peyton sees Julian in that hallway and he has the nerve to call you baby immediately you're like wait a way to second, him finding out that the happy ending of this high school love story is Peyton and Lucas are together. Oh my God. And he talks about how Peyton moved to LA. And it just like, oh, I had goosebumps. I was like, this makes me so uncomfortable. It's all so creepy. What are we going to do?

You know what it made me think. It made me think that if he didn't know that Peyton was already back in Tree Hill and with Lucas, that means he's a pretty shitty producer. If you don't do your homework, then you shouldn't be doing the job. Sorry, Julian. We have a fan question, baby. Is there anything that we missed before we get into that? I don't think so. Oh, you know what?

And maybe this is my honorable mention when I think about it, but it does feel worth mentioning. I thought one of the best lines of the episode belonged to Jamie Scott. When I tell Jamie you can't trust people when they're bad. And he says she's not bad. I think she's like Quentin was when he met mom. nice but afraid to show it and I was like oh from the mouths of babes it was such a sweet reminder

that you know sometimes people act out because they just desperately need to be loved and I love that that lesson came from the kid yeah oh he's the soothsayer for sure I mean yeah why is that child at quentin's grave exactly tree hills bonkers It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

Well, we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massac. Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it? make. Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. So now we're going to do our fan question. Okay.

Ronnie wants to know, don't you find it weird that Jamie never cries or has a tantrum he's supposed to be five? Uh-huh. It's because the person who wrote Jamie. Jamie, never had a child and doesn't like children. Yeah, has zero inkling of what a real kid does. Which is why we should hire more women in writers rooms and on sex. It's almost like if people who, you know, had lived these experiences were the ones writing them, they might be better. But mothers can't be writers.

The job's true. What are you talking about? Oh, my God. I love mom writers. because they nurture the characters the same way they nurture their own children and I personally appreciate that. Yeah. My five-year-old

my kids are really dramatic. Gus used to say, why don't you just cut my head off and pour lava down my throat? And I love when kids say really weird shit like that. That's a good one. That's a really good one. George isn't as creative.

But every single day, she says, today's just been a really hard day. And it's so withering. And so I kind of like that steady rhythm of pessimism coming from my five-year-old girl. Yeah, Jamie needs to have a bad day. Yeah, he needs to have bad days. He should have absolutely had tantrums. I love that your daughter is just a tiny Virginia wolf.

She is so dark. Today, today has just been dark and desolate and cold. I was telling her producers where you came on. She's been thrown up the last couple days. Every time she throws up, she turns to me and goes, well, that was annoying. Yeah, kids are weird, man. Jamie's saying all of this really, like, you know, kumbayash. He should just be saying some weird stuff.

That's accurate. Yeah. We need more weird. Thank you, Ronnie. Weird. More weird. Weirdest thing about that kid is that big old fake tooth. Let's spin a wheel, baby.

Let's go. What do we got? We have a most likely to give it to them. I'm obsessed with this. Who's most likely to have multiple dates in one night? I mean, character-wise, it's Brooke. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, totally. Duh. Um, but in real life, though. Uh, everyone's like grown up now, so I don't want to blow up anybody's spot. You know what I mean? It's Austin. It's Austin. He would admit that about himself.

Yes, it's totally Austin. He's like, cool, cool, cool, day date, and then day date, and then dancing date. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, man. I really, it's funny to like look back at all of that and realize, like, really even in this conversation, like, you and I were just never good daters. No. And like, I don't know.

I was talking about like the way we all grew up with a friend of mine recently and I was like, I don't know if it was because like, you know, was it all girls school and I learned nothing. Was it like, what was it? Because we were so young when we got. on our show that there wasn't like the normal time everybody else had to date and be social. It's like I'd be friends with someone for a while. Well, we had a lot of obviously big communities, but like eventually someone sort of starts

to stand out and you go, I think you might be nice enough to date and then you date for a while. And then like we were just never, we were never like out and single and dating the way people date. Like we were either single or we were in like serious long relationships. And I'm like, is that because we didn't grow. up in dating app culture? What was it? No, I mean, look, I'm public school, so you can't blame it on the girls school. I think it's that we were weird. So ambitious, we were so driven that when applied to dating and you're like, cool, first date, are you going to be the person I marry? No,

then we're wasting our time here. Like, we could not take our study skills and apply them to dating, Sophia. We would try. Oh, my God. We made our relationships into textbooks. I'm dying. We did homework

and like all the things, girl. All I did for so long was homework. No more homework. No, we're not doing that. That's actually really interesting. Yeah, because that does speak

to why it was like, eh, you go on a date, not interested. I'll just be single for three years or I'll be in a relationship for two. But there's no in between. There's We're either getting a 4-0 GPA Or dropping the class

Done Oh my God Done all right you guys Well next episode Are we calling Austin for the next episode Yes we have to Yes yes he'll do it He loves us

Yeah It's season six episode nine Sympathy for the devil Just tell him the name of the episode And he'll join us He'll be ready to go Thanks guys Cheers

Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H.H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Trauma girl.

Chearing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tough girl. With us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is Alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other Native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of 10, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.