Drama Queens - Will the Real Derek Please Stand Up • EP408 w/Ernest Waddell

Episode Date: January 3, 2023

Hilarie, Joy and Sophia recap the episode that keeps on giving…and the storylines run even deeper and with more meaning this time around.  Plus, Ernest Waddell (aka Derek Sommers) joins the girls to dissect his time on the show including his instigation of Peyton and Lucas. If ever there was an episode to be thankful for, this is the one!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hey everybody, season four episode eight, nothing left to say, but goodbye. I really liked this episode. Okay, air date November 22nd, 2006, Derek, the real Derrim, convinces Peyton to take a chance with Lucas at the same time that Brooke approaches him about getting back together. Bad timing. Dante's latest demand leads Nathan to seek help from an unlikely sort. Is it an unlikely source? It's typical.

The most likely and the most Dan. When Rachel learns of a failing grade, she turns to Haley for tutoring and Nathan is named MVP, MVP of the Ravens at the annual sports banquet in spite of the fact that he's been

shaving points. Janice Coat directed this one. I liked her a lot. Janice. Yeah, I liked that this was like a Thanksgiving episode and it was the big banquet. It was a way to like. Thanksgiving.

Oh, yeah. November 22nd. It's like a way to do a holiday without doing a holiday. You know, we're all together at dinner and it's awkward like everyone else's holidays. That's so funny. There we are. Yeah. Here we are.

I dug it. I mean, here's my question, though. The episode starts off with Nathan at the River Court. And we didn't talk about this last time. But like Nathan kind of taking over the River Court as opposed to just practicing in the gym or. someplace that's like monitored by adults seems dumb to me like if he just went through this experience for these two older men in the community cornered him why is this child like hanging out all by himself in this public setting where bad things have already happened like I'd be

hold up I guess he thought it was over because he believed them he's a little gullible Nathan well and by the way I feel like your question answered your question you're like why is this child doing this dumb thing. And it's like, well, because kids are dumb. Yeah. He's a teenage boy. He's just like, burp-ber-do. I'm fine.

What was that? Yeah, Sophia. Everything's done. I'm going to shoot this ball. I did it. It's over. And it's like, oh, you have never watched the godfather, have you, young man. No, this kid needed to hide out. Lay low until, like, everything's over.

Instead, he's just willy-nilly all by himself, down by the river. He's just out there dribbling his wealthy white privilege around. Because his dad has always bailed him out of every situation. So, of course, he has the muscle memory of like, oh, okay, I got away with it. It's over. I'm done. Okay, fine.

It's over. Yeah, he has no concept. Although, I do love that he went to Dan for help in this. I don't love the way Dan handled it. I feel like I was waiting for him to, like, muscle up and really do something dastardly to the dastardly people. people. Yeah. The one time. Dan's not corrupt. I'm like, listen, if we know anything about Dan Scott or like, I don't know, we've read the news ever in the last 20 years, it's like small

town mayor's not going to dispatch the like crooked cops on the PD force to go. You got a tail light out, mister. Put these guys in jail until after the game. Like, hello? Hello? The one time Dan's not willing to be completely inappropriate is perhaps the one time it's warranted so he's kid doesn't get his knees broken. But, okay, but so this is the backstory that I found so interesting because Dante and Bear act like they know Dan Scott from high school and they're about the same age. So like, what's that backstory? Did they play together?

Did they play against each other? Were they on varsity when Danny was on JV? Like, what is the story? Why didn't they say that would have been so cool if they had said that when Dan walked in the strip club and they were like, look who it is, our old boy did, you know, something. Yeah. Yeah, like the young hot shot, whatever. Because P.S., the minute Nathan says, you know, Dan asks him what their names are,

and Nathan says, Dante and Bear. And Dan knows immediately who they are. Yeah. And it's like if there had been backstory rather than, oh, everybody knows the local mafia guys. Like, ha, ha, ha, ha. Which is ridiculous. Yeah, who are these people? They needed a name for their gang.

If he knew them from high school, it's much more interesting. So much. Yeah, and you're right. They should have done that. Do you think Dan was being more docile because he seems to be trying to become a better person with this little Karen thing? No. Is that what's going on? I think he doesn't want to fuck up Nathan's, like, Duke prospect.

I think it's more about the legacy of basketball than it's like trying to impress Karen, you know? Not impress her, but like if there's some sort of sincere change. I do think he's on his. his best behavior around her. For sure. He does present as his best self, which is essentially the bare minimum for a normal person when he's around Karen. But I agree with Hill in that I really think he looks at the facts.

And because Dan doesn't care about Whitey at all, he doesn't give a shit if Whitey loses that last championship. He just wants Nathan to be okay and to go to Duke. So it's like, well, you know what? It sucks for everybody else, but you're still going to win. And that's classic Dan Scott. I don't care what happens to anybody else as long as I win. And he's telling Nathan to do the same thing.

That's true. That happened at my high school. What? We went to the state championship. And there was a boy from my school who had gotten like a full ride to UVA to go play football. There was a real fear that he could get hurt in that final game and it would screw up his scholarship. And so she told everyone he had mono. and couldn't play.

So our star player did not play in the state championship game. And we lost by one point. We lost by like a kick at the end. And, you know, he was absolved because his future was set. But for everyone else whose last game it was, it was like devastating. And for the poor kicker who it like all came down on, that kid, I think he was like a sophomore too that they brought up from the soccer team. And so his heart was broken.

But this one kid, all of us were like, you don't have mono. Like, show us the letter. But all his mother cared about was like, I'm preserving your future. I don't give a shit about any of these other kids. Like, you're the only one I care about. So that reality for Dan Scott is like pretty believable. You know, just I'm only here to care about my kid. Yeah.

Well, and by the way, I can't say I don't get it. Like, the idea, especially because of how intense those contact sports are, like a kid gets a concussion, a kid's knee gets snapped in the wrong direction. And their career is over. They're dealing with a disability for the rest of their life. And this idea that, you know, what I think our show did well in moments was when it really told the story of the every man and like the small town kid. and before we jumped the shark and everyone became the most successful person at what they did.

Went to the NBA. Had a freshly the line that was... Joy, look what you started. Haley goes on tour and then all of a sudden nobody's got to live up to that. Everyone had to be exceptional. But I think there's...

It's like I get that fear of this is one more night that's either going to make or break your life. My kid's only chance to go to college, to go to college debt free, to have a future, is making sure that they stay safe for this, you know, three more hours of a Saturday night. Yeah. And that's a tough one. That is a moral dilemma that I'm, you know, I'm not sitting here being like, I would have done the same thing.

I'm just going, ooh, that is, that is heavy. Like that amount of stress and pressure for them. It's like what message does it send to the kid? I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just wondering what the message is that you can't, you've been working toward this with your whole team. Everybody's been on the same page. And then at the last minute, the 11th hour,

A, you can't participate. Like, did he want to? And he was he was forced not to? Or was he like on board? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what those private conversations were. But to force your kid to not participate in something that they wanted to, when working toward all year and like not sharing the joy of the winning maybe.

that woman. And as a parent, you're saying, my job, my job is to protect you. Yeah, absolutely. And you know what I'm realizing is really interesting is that there's a layer added, because Hillary, you're telling a story about the football team, and because football is such an injury-prone sport, like basketball, it's like, who gives a shit? You're going to go play the game. Like, what are we talking about? You know, the threat to Nathan is that they're going to break his knees. It's not that his knees are going to get broken in a basketball game. It's so much less likely that you have, you know, a career ending injury. And I don't know, man. That I'm like, oh, I'm like, that's a show. Well, here's the thing. All the other parents are like, but all the other parents are

like, you know what, my child has sacrificed their body to make your star child look good for the last four years. The least you can do is show up and walk out onto that court or that field. Oh, it's so uncomfortable. That's what I mean about the message. Like what's the message that's being said subliminally for that kid for the rest of his life walking out going everyone else is allowed to make sacrifices for me but I don't make them for other people. I think that's the message. There's no I and team that there is a me. Wow. There's a me, me, me. That is so interesting. What a tough one. I mean, do you think that Nathan should play? Like, you're in Nathan's shoes. Do you think that he should throw the game? Yeah, I think he should play and he should

not throw the game. I think you should play his heart out and do the right thing and deal with the consequences afterward. I guess I'm like if knowing what the court courting process is for college sports, like that recruiter comes in and they take you to dinner and they meet your mom and dad. And there's like a whole little love affair where they try to get you to choose their school. Like why doesn't Nathan just pick up the phone and be like, eh, I'm getting, you know, I'm getting I'm not the first or last kid who is going to encounter this situation. Because he's a dumb kid and those guys are big and scary. Well, and I think because there is the fear,

there is always the fear when you have done something wrong, even if it started as an innocent situation or mistake, the fear is if I tell, everything will be over. Yeah. If I admit how far this has gotten, this will be a catastrophe. And interestingly, in that very human instinct to try to avoid what you see as your present potential catastrophe, you make the coming catastrophe worse.

That's why I think he should play and play hard and do the best he can and try and win and not throw the game. Because it's just, you just keep creating. The lies snowball, man. And deception snowballs. It just keeps going and gets bigger and bigger. I don't know. I think you've got to keep your side of the street clean as much as you can. Meanwhile, I feel like we were having a pretty good time with Rick Fox and Conrad who played bear.

Like, it was cool. That energy was fun. Like, just, hey, you guys are here to bully us? Neat. I like it. And I loved you in the cafe with them. You're like, thanks, boys. Give me some more money.

At the time. I know. So cute. They were fun. They were fun to have around. They were so lovely. Yeah. My boobs looked huge in this episode.

You looked hot in this episode. Okay. So the last two episodes, whatever was going on with the Maxim fallout, you were making them pay for that joy because you were like, oh, you wanted some of this? Oh, well then. Shimmy, shimmy. You made them pay. I liked it.

I liked the little lacy dress at the banquet. I did too. What was fun about this stage that we're in. entering into for Haley in the pregnancy is that what many people don't know about me is I am a bit gluten intolerant. And when I eat certain things, my stomach instantly looks like I'm pregnant. Oh, same. Like instantly. Yeah. And to the point where I've had people come up to me and be like, oh my gosh, I didn't know. Stop. Oh, no, I'm not kidding. Anytime I eat a sandwich. Yeah. People on the internet are like, oh, my God, she's pregnant. And I'm

I'm like, listen, I am aware that it looks like I have swallowed a whole bowling ball. But that sandwich was fucking delicious and it was worth it. And I don't know what you want for me. And like, I have photos. You guys know my best friend Babs. We have a picture of the two of us standing side by side in a mirror picking our shirts up. And we look like two pregnant best friends. And we had been traveling for like three weeks and didn't have an option to eat food we weren't allergic to.

And it is, I'm going to dig it up and send it to you. It is unbelievable how pregnant we look. And it's like, well, it's just, that's bread. Well, back then, we didn't know, I didn't know a lot about allergies or what I should eat or not eat. It was late hours. It was like, you just go over to the craft table and shove in your mouth whenever's there, whatever hot, you know, hot pocket snack they bring out at 11 o'clock at night. The tequitos.

Oh my God, I loved hot pockets. So I'm shoving all this stuff in my mouth. And I'm like, you know what? But I'm always having to suck my stomach in every time that happens. And so finally, for the next, like, I don't know, seven or eight episodes, I just relax. Because Haley's pregnant. So I could totally let it all in. Girl, you used your instrument.

You knew your instrument and you were like, I'm making art right now. I am going to use this. But I think I was wearing a padded bra for the pregnancy stuff. It was also. But yeah, that was fun. It was a fun look. We're going to talk about the banquet. Hairdew?

Oh, man. Oh, joy. I remember being... We're going out of order, but whatever. We're going out of order, but I remember being very pro-bankuit hairdo. Yep. Yes, you were. I loved it.

Yeah, I loved it at the time, too. It was a bohemian joy, and that was a vibe I was into. I feel like the image you brought in, wasn't it for? from a long came Polly? No, it was from Jennifer Aniston at your close, but Jennifer Anderson at the Golden Globes. The year she wore that gold dress and crazy hair. And she had braids like in her, in her beach waves. Yes. And you wanted those little braids in your waves. And the reason, the reason it worked on her, A, is because she was incredibly toned in tan. So her body structurally looked like, it was like a sculpture, like structure. And the dress she was wearing was very structured.

It was a long gold dress that I think had like maybe rectangular beads on it or something. So it was super angular everything. Then so then you complement that with the wildness of the hair and it works. But with this, I'm already wearing a frilly dress. I didn't have, my body wasn't in that sort of like structural format. And it was just like a total, I literally looked like I had been sleeping for days and days and days and days on that hair with never washing it and never taking a shower. That's what it looked like. And by the way, that's what our bosses all told me. And I was like, you guys don't have any creativity. You're just, you know, silly boys.

You don't know. You're trying to control me. This is the hottest thing on the red carpet. No, it really wasn't. I think it could have been judged a little, but here's what I'll say. It had strong, like, Game of Thrones energy. Oh, yeah. Where it was like, yeah, it was, themed. Hill, we were saying when we were watching the scene between Brooke and Haley and the banquet, that after Brooke walks away, I don't know what you said. You said something about, like, I'm just not sure anymore or something. You walked away from me.

And I just really wanted you to turn around and come back and say, do you need a hairbrush? Yeah. It's when Brooke is telling Haley what a good friend Rachel has been to her. Oh, yeah. That's what it is. Oh, yeah. I just love that, like, Brooke. and Rachel for the last couple episodes have morphed and like the outfits match the hair matches

the winged eyeliner matches it's like when your cycles sink up when you're living with another girl it's a total subconscious thing where it's like wait a second we're the same human now like it's so cute yeah it's really cute because you had your hair all bouncy and curly and I'm like look at all that girl in denille's hair today yeah George watched the episode over my shoulder and she was like Is that the same person? No, baby. Aw. You guys looked great, too.

I loved that red 40s lip on you with your hair all wavy. That was so pretty. And Rachel, Daniel, doing that 60s headband, a little ball dress look. So cute. Yeah, with a little bouffant in the back. Yeah, it is interesting that both of us went kind of period. I liked it. It was very sweet.

I liked that red lip, too. Well, if you're not wearing a red dress, One must wear a red list. Right. One must. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about the Brooke and Lucas of it all, because that threw me for a loop. It's so random and it literally makes no sense

that Brooke is like the two people I love the most in the world have broken my heart, and then she's like, do you want to go to the banquet with me? I think I miss you. And Joy and I were watching, because you were taking George to school, and we were like, why is this happening? Like, this doesn't track at all. And I realized by the time we got to the end of the episode, the entire reason for it is to set up that these two can admit that the spark is gone, that they're going to be friends for real, just so Lucas can tell Peyton that him and Brooke have realized it's over. That's the only reason.

It's not grounded in any reality. It just needed to happen so that you guys could happen. So in service of the story, I get it, but I really wish, I just wish there'd been something that had triggered it. Yes, something that had gotten her thinking about it or that she'd said to Rachel, you know, I went for a bad boy again, and maybe I should try to make it work with a nut. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

I can't come up with any reason that it would happen. I know it needed to, so there needed to be something. But it just felt so random. I, okay, I agree. But in the context of Brooke's character, being an only child and growing up in a householder, she probably got what she wanted a lot, I think that does kind of breed personality characteristics where it's hard to make a decision because every time you choose something, you're like, oh, maybe I I wanted the other thing. Oh, well, maybe I shouldn't have chose that. Maybe I should chose this.

So I'm kind of, it feels realistic to me that she would have made her choice and then been like, well, I don't know. Maybe I don't. Let me see. Let me see. So what you're saying is that Brooke and Nathan are the same person. They're two privileged white kids that are like, I'm just going to do some dumb shit. Like, I don't need to make sense. Maybe. Maybe that's it. It's too. everybody on our show is doing dumb shit all the time if brook can have what she wants all the time if that's sort of been the habit in her life then that it would naturally make sense that she would want the thing that she can't have so once she makes the decision and like pushes lucas away now he's the person that she can't have so she kind of wants to find out like can i still

have him i see that less though in this i think the thing the only thing that grounded it in some reality for me was when when Rachel says to Brooke like you're clearly rebounding yeah of course and you know Brooke was betrayed she just got cheated on again and she's mad at Peyton she's doing it despite Peyton and you know she she's like if they're all the same maybe I should give it a shot with somebody that I I love it's the devil you know it's the devil you know it's like we you know there's all that research that says we would rather be in the pain we know and risk the unknown

even if it would get us past it. And so I that I get, I just wish they'd leaned into it a little more. I think the writing was really lazy in this for Brooke with this Lucas rebound thing. And I think if she could have gotten a little clearer

on it, even if Rachel had pushed her a little more, because that's where I see that thing you're talking about Joy. If Rachel's like you're rebounding and she's like, no, I'm not, No, I'm not. Let me show you how much I'm not rebounding. I still really care about this person. Like that I would have loved to see.

But what I do like is that, if it is that, if it is that, oh, I'm going to go back to what I know very quickly, it's just like it's gone. You know, when the fire goes out, you can't always relight it and it's gone. And I liked seeing, I thought that Janice Cook, our director, did a really good job. when Whitey is giving his beautiful speech about Camilla, you see the way it's hitting everyone differently, but it's not overplayed. And I, you know, I caught the moment between Haley and Nathan realizing they have that kind of love. I watched everybody having these things. And I literally saw Brooke kind of go, ah, nope, don't have it. I don't have that. And I like that. And I like I liked that there was a realization of, I want to be loved like that.

I don't know if it exists anymore, but I'd like to find out. And that felt nice. The pressure that it has to exist in high school is hilarious to me. So funny. And like, I love that Rachel has become our voice of reason. I mean, she's like saying all the no-dust stuff. However, there was some shit with Rachel that I was very conflicted about. and I took notes.

Wait. Okay, so the whole failing grade thing. We know what was going on behind the scenes at this point. Like she was rejecting our boss, Danielle was, behind the scenes. And so this whole speech that the calculus teacher gives her about, Oh, we hated that. You're a pretty girl and can flirt your way through. But all your friends are going to leave you behind.

And if you don't do the work, you're not. going to get to hang out with your playmates you know that was all such veiled language against her and it's just such like weird subconscious like yeah it was you're right it was such a random scene and yeah we really hated that out of order inappropriate and it felt like it was a out of touch teacher being like oh you know just got to study just got to study harder you're going to be fine but it didn't fit it was so weird and now I understand why now that you're bringing that up well because and they also tried to veil the threat by hiring a woman to play that teacher so that it was a woman saying to a younger woman I see what you're doing

you're pretty and you rely on your looks and it it reeked of like sexist ick because it was our boss saying that to DeNeil, not a teacher saying it to Rachel. And it's so gross. It's gross when someone thinks they're being clever. And you're like, uh, we all know what you're doing. You big dork. We all see you. We all totally see you. But I thought we had also established earlier in Rachel's storyline that she was like, you know, secretly brilliant. Because she answered all sorts of hard questions and knew like all these answers in some class. Oh, that's right. Yeah. We've already Establer's that she's like super smart. And she does say to Haley, you tutor all these people.

I've seen what you do for them. I'm actually smart. I've just missed a lot of class. So they did try, but... Not that hard. Not that hard. It was just lost in the personal attacks. And we were at that stage in our show where so much of what was happening on screen

was needling at people personally. Yeah. And now Mouth's rejecting her. Now Mouth, the character based on our boss, is like, I don't even want you anymore, you know? I've got somebody new. It's so gross. What do you guys think about the speech? Everybody kept giving Haley about giving everyone second chances because that was all about Rachel, like trying to get to the, to.

I was disappointed that Haley had like nothing to do this episode. Well, that's what I don't have anything to do for the next. Because she's becoming a mother, and that's her only identity. You're like, I'm so bored. I'm just going to braid my fucking hair right now. I'm all for it. But you know what I will say is because there's such a beautiful relationship established that you and James have built for Haley and Nathan,

it's so fun to watch you guys together. even if technically there's not a lot going on, there's so much happening around you that there's a bit of a respite as an audience member. When I get to see the people I love to watch being in love, just being good to each other. It's so nice. That's important. It's totally important in a story like this where you've got so many weaving storylines, so much drama. You've got to have at least one stable place, even if the stable place changes into different storylines. And it has to, otherwise it gets boring. But I just, I guess as your friend, I just want to say, even when you feel like you don't have a lot to do, you're so fun to watch.

You guys are the Wobie. You're like the safe thing. We want our Wobie. You know who else is really becoming a highlight in that space? And I wish we'd gotten to hold on to him longer is earnest. Yes. Real Derek, you know, they did that thing. I know we talked about it a bit and we can, you know, we can get into it. They made him kind of the cliche of the military guy who's always yelling at you. And I think when they got that out of their systems and he just was able to be present

with you and wasn't written to yell but was able to be firm and challenging to, you know, to say to you, I wrote it down that he says, take a risk today. Yeah. He pushes you lovingly. And it's really nice in, you know, Larry's absence, it's so nice to see Peyton have a supportive male figure in her life. Like this older brother figure is just really, really fun to watch. Watching the bedroom get painted, you know, the advent of red bedroom records, it's all starting. And you guys had a, I don't know, remember exactly what the dialogue was, but your chemistry is just so good. And I just thought, I need more of this. I need more of the two of these guys interacting. Yeah. Guys, guys, you want it today? Do you want it today? I want it today. I do. I want it today. More, more, more earnest, Adele. I'm really excited about this reunion. I have not. gotten to see Ernest since he left the show.

So, guys, we have him today. Let's bring him in. You guys, my brother's here. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor

Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello? There you are!

How have you not aged at all? Oh my God, you look exactly the same. Neither have any of you, actually. Ernest, I'm going to fistfight you. I've aged 20 years and you look exactly the same and that's not fair. How are all of you? Good to see you. Hi.

This is a fun surprise. We've been watching you for like weeks now, which sounds like a very creepy way to start this off. But watching like the introduction of real Derek and then all the military stuff, which we can get into. I'm really glad that you were able to come on for this episode because this was a lovely, you know, button for your character. You know, seeing you deploy. I was really sad.

We've just been watching you and Hillary and your whole storyline and we've really just been like fawning over you. So we're so happy you're here. Oh, thank you. And I'm glad you guys enjoyed my performance. I'm so happy about that. We wish we had you for so much longer, especially now that we're watching it back, you know,

because as Sophia just said, we don't remember a lot of it. We just didn't have time to watch the show while we were filming it. Sure, yeah. We missed a lot of your performance. You know, we saw bits and pieces, but it's so nice to watch it back now.

And also sad to realize we only got you for four or five episodes. We needed more. I felt really protected with you being there. You know, we had just done the storyline where, like, my character's assaulted. And there was also all this, like, wonky stuff going on behind the scenes.

And you came in as such, like, a grounded, mature energy. And I was just like, why are you taking this person away from me? Like, they took Ellie away from me. They took you away from me. Because people always leave. God. People always leave. What was your experience with the show before you got cast?

Did you have any idea what one tree hill was? Honestly, no, because I was in college. So, like, literally college, I watched No Tee. And then, like, I just, yeah, I just got a call and they said, hey, come down to Wilmington. And it was just so amazing because I'm actually from Wilmington. What? Like, yes. Oh, my gosh, I remember that.

I'd forgotten. Like, so much of my family is from Wilmington. And I had an amazing time there because my dad, not my dad, my uncle loaned me his car. And, like, it was just amazing. It was great. But, yeah, I grew up, I grew up in Wilmington. I was there for, like, the first few years. years until about three yeah yeah and then i i go there every year because my family's there and we go

to rightsville beach to the we have a beach house there yeah oh my god dude you're still always there i'm still always there and then now a buddy of mine from middle school joe hauser he runs a company in wilmington so it's just like it's just funny coincidence so when you go down there do people recognize you are they like oh my god it's brother derrick oh absolutely Oh, of course, of course. Wow. I feel like everyone in town knew you guys. I mean, even when we were shooting, you know, just like going out, people would just, that's

all they would talk about. It was very cool. I have a very, like, strong sense memory of us being at level five. Do you remember real Marines on the rooftop? We had the fake Marines with us. And it was like, there was like this energy of like, oh, you guys are playing military on TV. Well, we're military in real life and we'll kick your ass. And I just remember being like, oh, no, they will.

they'll kick on. What happened? Yeah, I definitely felt a lot of pressure. Just, I mean, my family were from the military. I had a, my father was in the Air Force. My uncle was in the Air Force. So everyone was like just picking me apart after the episode. Oh, really?

Yeah. Just my walk wasn't completely military. You know, like we're saying goodbye. And then I'm like walking away, you know. Yeah, when you do that field day with the five. that in the last episode, Lucas and Peyton both just came out into the training center and just, like, found you, like, rolled up in a Hummer. Walking around, base.

Yeah, just, like, got right in, no problem. We lost our minds. We were like, on no planet, would someone in fatigues, just pick up a teenage boy and drive him into the middle of a training exercise? We were losing it. But having so many folks in your family come from military backgrounds, did you, ask for advice when you got the part of Derek? Or were you like, I got this, I know what this is?

Like, how did you prepare for it? I had such little time to prepare. I was actually on vacation in Europe when I found out that I was going to do the show. And it was like, okay, you're going to come to Wilmington and everything. And I think I maybe had very little time to get down there and get started. So I just, I mostly had to just go off of what I knew from my dad, from just family members. But the hardest part was just, you know, I just felt like, you know, erecting this in this uniform. It was just kind of tight in there.

But I remember they made a really big deal out of that. There was like a technical advisor to make sure that the belt was appropriate. And so much pressure was put on you to like make it right, you know. Yeah, it was a mad dash for sure. And then I remember the technical guy with the punching, the boxing. Yes. Yeah. And I just, I was just so excited and I was ready to jump in.

So whatever it was, I was pretty much prepared to just, you know, just go with the flow, you know. We talk a lot about how, like, you were directed to be really, really angry and to be like really aggressive in the first couple of episodes where we see Derek. The first version of brother Derek we had was definitely like, get your shit together, Peyton, you're being a baby, you know? And was like super aggressive. Was that your experience with military and your family just being heightened like that? Or was that something that you were directed to do on our show? Because you're so good at like the softer, more intimate stuff.

I think, I mean, I feel like that's a natural impulse for me sometimes, with emotional. I feel like I lean on anger sometimes, maybe too much. I don't know. And I think I was aware that there would be a shift. So I wanted to go in initially with a little bit more umph and then kind of shift to the more sensitive side. But I don't know.

That's smart to be able to give an arc too. So you don't just come in at the same at the same tone because we wanted to see you sort of get wooed into this experience and then have it be that much harder to leave. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I really felt the ending too. Like, I mean, even just watching it back so much, there's so much heart. in One Tree Hill, which I really appreciate.

And even the way the show is shot, I feel like there just aren't that many shows that you see now that really capture that young adult sweetness, that young adult. I don't want to use the word angst, but I think you guys know what I mean. We're emo creatures. Yeah, well, I think what was interesting for us was realizing that our show gave a lot of people permission to be vulnerable. in ways that didn't require, you know, fantasy or, and again, no shade to the genres we love,

but we didn't need vampires. We didn't need, you know, billionaire parents with private jets. We didn't need, it's like, it didn't have to be so heightened. It could just be honest. And I think, you know, you tapped into that in such a way that felt natural. You know, to your point, Derek coming in. you know, written, the character's written to be reluctant to say, I didn't ask for a sister, you know, I didn't sign up for this. And that sort of energy combined with this military background,

it's so interesting to hear you say that you wanted to really bring it in the beginning because it's a mask, right? It's a defense mechanism for his vulnerability. Oh, I feel that's, yes, I feel it's so much from just my family members, just that there's a, there's a way that you have to protect your emotions in order to do the job that you have to do. And that's, I think, something that I very much felt from my father. I wanted to bring to this because, you know, working with Hillary, you were just so charming and you're so sweet. So it was just... I was really happy to have family.

I was so loved. I've been so alone artist. But you and I both come from military families. So I think we very quickly bonded over that because there was this desire to portray the military in a loving way. You know, we were at war at the time. I had friends in Iraq. I think you also had friends that were deployed or family members that were out. And, you know, that was important to us that, like, we show the honor of our men and women, you know, and we wanted the character of Derek to kind of embody that and be like, look,

this is someone that deals with hard stuff and is doing it in a noble way, and he may seem like a hard ass, but he's actually, like, parked outside of Peyton's house, making sure that no one breaks in while she's asleep. I love that. Yeah, and that arc for you and the way that you played it, bringing that mask down, when you see him out there and he tells Lucas that he's staying, but she doesn't need to know, because he's trying to give her that confidence back. And then this episode, the reward of seeing you two together out, you know, socially in a

happier environment and watching you be supportive and remind her that she's a strong person and that she can do these things. It's just such a refreshing energy in the midst of our show. Yeah. And such a simple message, even the no fear. I just really appreciated that, just hearing that. I think that that's something that it's so simple. It's such a simple statement, but I think that everyone struggles with it, you know?

And I don't know. That just really resonated with me. I love that in this episode you said to Peyton, go take the risk. I mean, I tell my daughter that I used to tell her a lot more. I guess, I don't know, I got out of practice, but I used to tell her all the time on her way to school. You got to make at least two mistakes today. Oh, that's a great, you know, memo, yeah. Because, like, how else are an actor?

Exactly. Exactly. How else are you going to learn if you don't, and learn that when you do make mistakes, it's usually okay. Like, everybody's okay in the end. Like, things eventually get cleaned up. So you got to try. And it's a beautiful episode because she actually gets rejected.

Yeah. Exactly. Oh, it hurts. The horrible thing happens. You make the mistakes. You give it to try and then the bad thing happens. And it's still. still okay. That was my favorite part is the look on your face, Ernest, when Peyton comes

and has to tell you, like, yeah, I did it. It didn't go good. It went bad. And like, that look on your face of like, oh, fuck, I might have just waited worse for this kid. Like, how do I fix it? No, I got to stay and go to the banquet with her now. No, I've got to go. I think your advice, you know, take the risk is part of what pushes Peyton to finally say it in end. You know, when Lucas says, Brooke and I have realized it's over. Like, it's really over. And then you, you unload and you say how you've been feeling. It's like, you're still taking his advice, actually. I love that. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge

honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native of Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt really comfortable with you from the jump because you were NYU guy. And I had just worked with Brian Greenberg, who was also an NYU guy. And, like, strangely enough, you guys had very similar set energy. Like, we could see that. Yeah. And so I didn't, I have, for the whole rest of my career, always wondered if that was like a NYU thing.

Just that, like, groundedness and focus, you know, you two were the most prominent NYU people I'd worked with. Yeah, there's definitely a, like, a ton of, vision. I was thinking about this for this, but just that when I'm on set, everything goes so freaking quick for me. And I just feel like, where did the time go? And I think it's like I have ADD, but like the only time I have tunnel vision is when I'm acting, you know, but I think that there's something about NYU that kind of garners that, you know, we spend a lot of time like 30, 40 minutes before we even enter a room into a scene. So you spend a lot of time trying to

I guess work yourself into a particular state, you know, for the circumstances, for sure, yeah. It is hard. It's hard if things are just moving, moving, moving. It's just like you're kind of stuck in a machine, especially coming onto a show like ours, where it was such a well-oiled machine. And we all had a lot of our relationship set and everything was kind of, you're walking into something that's been in motion for a very long time. Well, yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot of chaos still. But to be able to just come in solid and centered and comfortable with who you are and who you saw this character as and just give that with such a generous, it's such a generous thing to do as an actor to not get caught up in the hype or the chaos or the confusion or the intimidation and any of that stuff. But just to just open up your heart and be there in spite of all these things whirling around you.

And you definitely had that presence. I didn't work with you more than, I think, that one scene, that banquet scene, but I remember that about you. What I remember was all of you were so close. It was just, and it's so funny because I didn't get that, I got the vibe. I mean, especially with Hayton, I'm sorry, Hillary. You can comment Hayton if you want to. Because immediately I did feel comfortable around you, but then when I met all the rest of you, I still just felt completely comfortable because you guys are so comfortable with each

other. And it really comes across, even when I watched it today, it was just obvious that you guys were so close and loved each other and we're having so much fun. And it made the episode more enjoyable. I really actually enjoyed watching it this time. I mean, I get all weird about seeing myself. You know what I mean. Well, yeah. What was the reaction from all of your buddies, though, when you're like, hey, I'm on one tree hill, you know? Remember that time everyone wanted to be doing like cool, edgy shit? Like, everyone wanted to be playing a heroin addict back during 2006. Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's, I mean, that was like, I mean, coming out of NYU, I was like, edgy this. I'm making art. I was into it. Yes. But even watching this again, I was like, man, like, there's so much about this show that's so soft and I just really enjoyed the pace of the show as well. I think that it would be hard to make a young adult show like this now just because I think that they would they would try to make everything punchy. They would try to sensationalize things. And I really felt the softness, the sweetness,

the building of relationship. You can't duplicate it. You can't recreate that. I feel like it was a a time capsule of a time capsule of tv because i think that you could look at the show and you could you know pick apart the the hairstyles and the clothes and things of that era but i think that there was there was something else happening that i feel like just does no longer exist in television you know even when you watch netflix i feel like you can immediately tell a netflix show even if you didn't know what it was you know um But were the shows you watched growing up? Like, what were the shows when you were in high school

made you feel safe? Martin, Seinfeld. Oh, yeah. Boy meets World. Yeah. Were you pumped to see Lee Norris on our set? You're like, it's Mankus is here. Mankus is here.

Ducktails. Oh, my gosh. Yes, I loved Dead Tales. They're out of Ducktail. It's so good. Yeah, what else did you think about it? Having not watched it for, you know, 15 years, what jumped out? How thin everybody was.

How skinny all of you, I just, you know, it's so funny. I think every show I've shot, I just felt fat, you know? And then, you know, you go back to to see an episode and you're like, oh, I was clearly out of my mind. You know what I mean? And I think that that's just like an actor thing that happens. But yeah, that was one of it. That's so funny. No, you're like hot older brother energy.

Like the middle, you running on that base, like, bark in orders at all the other dudes. Like, it was such macho energy. I don't know how you see it as anything other than like, yeah, I'm awesome. Check this out. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, you know as an actor, I think that no matter how good you do, you still feel like, oh, could have done it better.

I could have done this. Yeah. But that's normal. Nobody tells you when you decide you love story. that what you're really signing up for is a lifetime of beating yourself up. But I think what's interesting is in this, in this stage of our lives, we're all talking about it. And it's like, oh, cool, you two? All right.

Okay. I'm not by myself. This is nice. We're all a little crazy together. I so appreciate Gen Z and this whole new self-help era, the TikTok era. I've learned so much about every mental disorder I have to say that. Oh my God, I'm the same way. I just heard out that I have ADHD at 40.

I was like, I literally went through my whole life not knowing this. Do you know how many problems I could have solved in my life? How much more self-confidence I would have had? How just there's so much that I'm like, I cannot believe I lost so much time. Yep. Not knowing that this was my problem. I want you to do a 30-second drawing for drama queens so we can post it on our Instagram, Ernest.

Yeah. Yes. Go. Can I make a request? Sure. Yeah. That's what, no, I want, I want you to make us a piece of art in 30 seconds. Two one minute.

No, I'm serious. I'm going to do this literally the minute we do it off and I'm going to draw it. I'm going to send it to you guys immediately. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that cultural. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kinds of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's going on with you, dude? Did you just have a camera something? I'm cyber-stalking you. I know. Please, come on. Yeah.

I just, yeah, I just had a baby girl. She's so sweet. Congratulations. She just started talking. Oh, not talking. She's two months, but she's, she's going to her. That kind of stuff. Oh.

Oh, bud. She is, she is so beautiful. We truly have been like scrolling through your Instagram and we're like, oh, my God, look at his baby. Yeah. Oh, she's a sweetie. Your name is McKinley. McKinley.

You didn't name her Peyton? That's crazy. Come on, man. Oh, my God. I have the best idea ever. Okay, okay. Ernest, you do art, okay? I do.

And I want you to explain more of your art thing. But you guys, I saw in Star News today, because I still get the newspaper back in Wilmington, that they are commissioning a mural in downtown. Wilmington in that Bijou Theater alleyway and they're like we want people to submit their designs

for this big mural that's going to get painted in town because there's no murals in downtown Wilmington and they want that and so here's what I'm thinking I'm thinking Big Brother Derek is the right person for this gig yes and then we can all go to like

open the mural we could do a ribbon cutting because it's in an alley oh my god it's in an alley Can we go? Yeah, tell, okay, so explain your art to everyone because I, I, seriously, I cyberstocked this shit out of you, Ernest. I'm just like going through all of your posts on Instagram. Like, this is so cool.

It's me pursuing that edgier side of myself. I started making things about poverty. I was doing that for a bit. And then I started to feel like that was very cliche. But I mean, I know you guys have seen what's been going on in, the United States lately so a lot of people struggling and I think I was in New York and I was just seeing so much of that and I just wanted to capture some of it and just I think just keep busy just keep working I think lately I've been making a lot of films I'm working on a feature

film right now and cool I love these creative outlets though because there's a part of me that thinks that Big Brother Derek is probably doing the same thing you know a lot of my friends who got out of the military really needed career paths in other directions when they got out. And so watching you paint Peyton's bedroom in this episode, I'm like, of course her brother's and artists. They have the same day. That's right. I love that.

It's a great outlet. Great for emotional expression, just trying to find a way to process. It's about... Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what the character of Derek is, like, pushing in your arc. Because we have these little kids on our show, like, bad things keep happening to all of us. We get shot at school.

Parents die. We get dumped. You know, like, bad stuff keep... She put... We get dumped in that category. We get dumped. That is the end of the world. The whole spectrum.

But none of us are processing it. until this like older influence comes along and is like, y'all kids are nuts. Like you have to process, do the work, do your work. And that's important. Well, we talked about that, actually, Ernest, in one of our last episodes, watching your performance and what real Derek offers to Peyton,

we've spoken a lot on this podcast about how these kids go through these traumatic experiences. nobody sends them to therapy. Nobody helps them, to Hillary's point, process. And weirdly, you know, the grown-ups who were writing these storylines would write a lot of jokes. Like Lucas says in the last episode to Peyton, you know, when you guys have a moment and Derek is, you know, has his wall up, Lucas goes, oh, I liked the other Derek better. And it's like, the other Derek is literally a rapist. Let's not make jokes about this.

Sure. And what's so cool is that even though your arc was not as long as we all would have liked, you showed up and you grounded it in this way that really did say for the first time, you have to deal with this. You have to face it. You as a character, like, you know, even though, you know, Hillary was like, oh, my God, I hated the boxing. I think I looked ridiculous. But that was it. It was that moment. But you made her get in her body.

Do you ever that day, Ernest? Oh, my God. That boxing scene was so hilarious. Oh, no. Oh, it was so bad. We just kept trying to, like, punch, punch, punch, and then the breakdown. Oh, God. Oh, God.

It was great, though. We like to ask a lot of our friends who come on the show, like, where do you think your character is today? Hmm. definitely not in the military that's just my my sense um i don't know i immediately went to carpentry maybe it's because i'm waiting in the in the episode but um just something i don't know i get the vibe something that's very relaxing but also engaging yeah i love it okay uh we're going to It's been a wheel because this is a high school-oriented show. We like to do superlatives, most likely to.

Did you have superlatives at your high school? I couldn't tell you. In your yearbook? Oh, okay, here we go. Who's most likely to not forget your birthday? Ooh. Ooh. It's kind of nice.

So, Ernest, we do this for a character on One Tree Hill, and we do it for one of the cast members in real life. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I know it's tough because you weren't with us for super long so you didn't get to know all of us very well but you can take your best guess Who is most likely to not forget?

To remember I guess to remember your birthday The person that says that's another way of saying it That's 7 a.m. text. Yeah. The character I would say Peyton Oh, brother. Yeah. The actor I would say Sophia.

Yeah. Oh, that's so sweet. No, you're, you're, you seem like a very precise artist. She's organized. Thank you. We need to know what Ernest's real birthday is. What's your birthday? Oh, when is your birthday?

It's July 22nd. Oh, that's right. Oh, my God. Baby, like me and Sof. We're all born in 1982 in July. I remember now. Okay. Here we are.

All right. Happy birthday, brother. You're stuck with us forever. You're going to get text messages. I'm so glad. Hopefully we get to see you in person soon. Yes. I hope so too.

Yeah. And I'm looking forward to our artwork. Maybe I'll get that tattooed. No pressure, right? Okay. It'll be 30 seconds. Yeah, literally. But a lifetime of appreciation.

All right, honey. Thank you, Ernest. Get sleep. Thank you, Ernest. So good to see you all. So good to see you. me. I had a blast shooting those episodes. You guys

are awesome. Seriously. Thanks, we're happy to see you. See you. All right. Bye, buddy. Bye. I love it. Oh, I love him. I love him so much. Why didn't I get to keep him? I'm so sad.

Like, why wasn't he at Peyton's wedding? Why wasn't he like at all the things? I don't know. No. Well, I'm glad we got him today. Yeah. In our parallel universe version of One Tree Hill, he stayed forever. Forever.

All right, guys. What's next, guys? Ooh, next week we got season four, episode nine, Some You Give Away. They all sound so spooky this season. I'm like, after every single one we read, I want to go, dun, dun, done, done. I don't know why. All right, well, let the dread and sue. We'll see you next week.

Bye-bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Charing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. A smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with that. us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama, queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged

award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.