Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Amanda Zurawski

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

The repercussions of overturning Roe v. Wade have been devastating for many women. One of them is Amanda Zurawski, who nearly died after being refused life-saving healthcare. Amanda shares her harrowing story with Sophia - one that should never have happened. Amanda was looking forward to being a new mom when the unthinkable happened: she suffered complications during her pregnancy. Doctors informed her that the baby wouldn't survive, but due to Texas' abortion ban, they were unable to terminate the pregnancy. Amanda went into septic shock twice before getting the care she desperately needed. Now, she's fighting for reproductive rights so that other women will never have to endure the same trauma she did.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, smart and dedicated and wonderful friends of Work in Progress. Today, we are joined by a personal hero of mine. Amanda Zorowski is a woman who lives in Texas. You've probably heard of her. Her water broke two days before the extreme Trump abortion ban fell in Texas. She was 18 weeks pregnant and devastated to find out that her fetus had absolutely no chance of surviving. And despite knowing this, doctors in Texas were too scared to give her the care that she needed to save her life. And Amanda, went into septic shock not once but twice. She is left with a permanently closed fallopian tube due to scar tissue. She suffered unbelievable loss and then unbelievable pain on top of it. Her and her husband are still hoping to start a family. But they have turned this pain and this honestly assault of women that has come from these Trump abortion bans into incredible and

breathtaking purpose. Amanda is one of the plaintiffs who sued the state of Texas for denying her necessary medical care, and she has been fighting for women and pregnant people around the country ever since. She has been able to show that this idea that doctors are so opposed to make, quote, good faith judgments without protection at the risk of being jailed, does not go far enough to actually protect the lives of women. Amanda is a personal hero of mine. She has become an incredible advocate in our fight for equality. And she even took the stage at the DNC, along with former presidents and first ladies and vice president Kamala Harris, to stand with her husband Josh and tell their story.

I'd also like to add a trigger warning to this episode. We do discuss miscarriage and pregnancy loss. And if it feels overwhelming to you, this might be a good time. to sit this one out. We will make sure that we have links to resources to places where you can get involved, volunteer, and even donate in the Instagram stories for this episode. So if you don't think you can handle listening to it, you can still get involved. I'm incredibly thrilled that Amanda is taking time from her schedule campaigning all around the country and advocating for us to sit down and have this conversation today.

I hope you enjoy it too. Hi there. Hey, Amanda, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm good. Gosh, I mean, first and foremost, really, I just want to say thank you. I can't imagine that going through what you went through and then being thrust. onto the national stage has been easy, but I know for myself and so many women that I speak to about your case, about, you know, the DNC, about all of it, that we just are so tremendously grateful for you. Well, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. It's not easy,

but it's been really healing, I think, to be able to channel such horror into something that hopefully it's going to change for some good. Yeah. But no, I appreciate you saying that. I really do. It goes a long way because some days are hard. Yeah, well, and listen, any woman who is willing to stand up for political progress, I know it takes a lot of heat out in the world. So I do think when we get to be together and just say, hey, I see you and really value you, it can help the sort of relentless experience of essentially getting, you know, punched in the back of the head.

every time you walk, you know, get on the internet. Yeah, well, I really appreciate that. And, you know, I just want to say folks like you that use your platform to do something good is just so heartwarming and, you know, not something I think we saw for a really long time. And so I'm really, really grateful for folks like you that lean in and are bringing attention to things like this. Well, I'm sure glad to be in the fight with you. And it's not lost on me that it's a bit of a, it gives me a little bit of a, it gives me a little bit

of whiplash to say, you know, I wish we didn't live in a world where women had to relive their trauma to make progress or, you know, for us to be treated as people. And yet, I know we do. And so the irony of having to say that and then say, for any of my listeners who don't know your story, could you give me an overview of your story? I'm like, I hate this and thank you. It's okay. I know. I know. It's been really actually, I think, good to talk about it so much because I think it helped be processed a lot faster than I would have otherwise. Yeah, my therapist and I talk about it a lot. Oh, wow.

Okay. Well, I'm really glad to hear that, that there's kind of a progressive nature to it for you personally as well. Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it took a while, and I was in a pretty rough spot for a while, but we're here now. Okay. Okay. Well, for the, you know, for the listeners who are tuned in with us, Amanda's story is incredibly, you know, unique and also unfortunately not unique at all, given what Donald Trump and the GOP had been working to and then managed to succeed with, nominating three judges to the Supreme Court for the explicit purpose of overturning our protections to health care through Roe v. Wade. And the Trump abortion ban, that fell all over the country have affected so many of us. I mean, for our folks at home, one in three women today lives in a state

where she cannot access the health care that she needs. And we are a podcast where facts are facts and there are no alternative ones. And I want to be very clear that abortion is health care. And Amanda, your story is, I think, particularly heart-wrenching. for so many of us, because you do live in a state where your rights changed, essentially overnight. You were denied life-saving care in Texas because their abortion ban meant that when you lost a pregnancy, you were not able to have the procedure you needed to save your at-risk life as immediately as you needed to have it. Can you walk folks through what happened

and why you were denied care at that stage. Yeah, so you are exactly right that my story is horrific, but unfortunately is becoming more and more common the longer that these bans are in place. And in my state of Texas, there's almost a complete abortion ban that went into effect, as a matter of fact, two days after my water broke. So this was 22, and I was pregnant with a baby

that my husband and I wanted to, so, so much. We tried for about 18 months before we were finally able to get pregnant. And I made it to about 18 weeks and unfortunately suffered complications where we learned there was no way that we could safely reverse course. And so our doctors told us we were with 100% certainty going to lose the baby. Now, that in and of itself was the most horrific, awful news, of course, that anyone could ever, ever imagine. But then on top of that, you know, this was my first pregnancy. And I said, okay, so what happens next?

What do we do? And my doctor said, unfortunately, I can't do anything because terminating the pregnancy, even though the baby won't survive, terminating the pregnancy would be considered an abortion, which is now illegal. And she would be at risk of losing her license or even going to jail if she terminated the pregnancy. So I had to wait until either the baby's heart stopped or I met the medical exception in Texas, which is life of the mother. So essentially, I was locked in this hell of will the baby's heart stop or will I deteriorate the brink of death first?

So we're waiting for one of these two terrible outcomes. And what happened was I went first. So I three days later went into septic shock and nearly died. and my doctor had to stabilize me enough to deliver the baby, but then I went into septic shock again and ended up spending a total of three days in the ICU and a week in the hospital. Oh, my God.

And I want to, I want to, I don't know if the appropriate thing is to say, you know, I'm about to say something very technical and also upsetting to folks listening. I don't know if the appropriate words to use or trigger warning, But to be clear when a woman like Amanda, or like I would imagine many of you unfortunately have, if you look at the data of how often women experience miscarriages and pregnancy loss, complications, even fetal anomalies, the position you were put in because there was still connectivity from your body to the fetus. There was still electrical pulsing happening between the two of you, this baby that you wanted so badly that you knew was. not going to survive. For you to be put in a position where, rather than giving you the DNC you needed to preserve your life, to also preserve, let's be medically frank, the health of your

uterus for future pregnancies, you were put in a position where doctors had to look at you and essentially say, we're going to have to let this fetus die on its own and begin to decay in your body. And we'll see what happens. it is the most barbaric faked up horrific thing I have ever heard of and to know that you went through this

and were basically told to wait and then nearly died not once but twice I cannot fathom how any any leader of any party could claim to be pro child, pro family, pro anything other than control

and do this to people do this to women and do this to families. And in the days between you so graciously confirming that you would come and have this conversation with me and the day that we sit here recording, just today, ProPublica published news about another young mother, Amber Nicole Thurman,

who was also denied the DNC that she needed because her body had not expelled fetal tissue in Georgia. and she was begging the doctors to consider the life of her six-year-old son and what would happen to him if she died and they made her wait until she went into sepsis and then operated on her after 20 hours in the emergency room and she did die. We are literally killing women in America

to earn some sort of political points and I can't really fathom how that's pro-life. I also can't fathom how a party that would do this to women and also vote to take away the child tax credit from parents could claim to be pro-life, yet here we are. You went through such a trauma. How did you then decide to say, okay, my plan is to take legal action against the state of Texas. Was it in the personal experience of asking these same sorts of questions, or was it because you heard about how many other women it was happening to in your home state at the same time, or both? That's a good question. So from a timing perspective, I was probably

one of the first people impacted by this band, just because, like I said, it went into effect the same week that I had complications. So I hadn't yet. heard of this happening to other people. But my husband and I got to talking once I had recovered, but I was still in the hospital, we got to talking about how insane this was that this had happened and that I literally almost died. And we were talking about, you know, I am the best case scenario here because I have a job that will let me take time off work. I have a husband who can get me to a hospital. We have health insurance. We live close to a hospital. We don't have other kids that we have to worry about child care for. And we just kept thinking, you know,

if someone doesn't have one of those same privileges, it's going to be a lot worse. And people are going to die. And so in talking about how insane and barbaric this is and this was, we were like, we have to do something. Now, suing the state of Texas wasn't the first thing that came to mind because I didn't know that you could do. I had never had a lawyer before. But we decided we were going to start speaking out because we wanted to warn people. We wanted people to know this is what's going on.

And so we just got connected to people who were in this fight. And through some of our early advocacy, people said, you know, really you should consider taking legal action. And we were connected to the Center for Reproductive Rights, which is the organization that represented us in the lawsuit. And once we met with them and understood what this would look like and what it would mean,

we were like, all right, this feels like the right decision. Wow. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors. How did those first initial meetings go? Because I imagine you're still in the, you know, you're in the fog of loss. You're dealing with grief. and walking into these rooms, you and your husband, and having to talk to all of these attorneys and these advocates. And were they really focused on Texas, or were they also

trying to give you a lay of the land nationally so you all could put this into context? Did it sort of feel like you'd signed up for a law class all of a sudden? Maybe all of the above? Yeah, all of the above. I'll be honest. In the first meeting, I did not take it seriously at all. I thought it was kind of crazy that we were even meeting with these lawyers again. I had never had a lawyer before for anything. I was like, I've never sued anybody. I was like, what are we doing, Josh to my husband? I'm like, what are we doing? Um, but then after about five minutes of meeting with our lawyers, they explained what it would look like. And there was just something inherently about them that I trusted. And it almost feels like, you know, when you go on a really

great first date and you're like, oh, we just click or you meet a new friend. And you're like, oh, we just, we mesh. That's how I felt, even though it was just via Zoom. Turns out my instincts were right. But they explained to us what was going on across the country. And the more we talked to them, the more we realized that, okay, this really is a win-win situation with this lawsuit because either we win the case, yay, or we lose the case, but hopefully we create enough of a splash and enough of awareness that people are really

outrage. And then Texas is clearly showing us their true colors and they're showing us how much they don't care about pregnant people. Hopefully that will get people really upset and they'll start changing hearts and minds. Maybe we'll even change some votes. And then the farther it went along, we realized, okay, actually what we might be doing here is giving courage and a voice to other people, not just in Texas, but in other states who might also want to take legal action. And so it just kept growing and growing and growing along the way. But every step along the way, we were like, yeah, this is this is going to change things. Like, no matter what happens, we think that we can have a positive outcome from this. Exactly. And is it ever sort of overwhelming to feel like

you are now one of the public faces of the fight for reproductive rights in the nation? Or has has continuing to, you know, take every step as it comes and, and continue moving your way up this fight, do you kind of feel like you've built a team and you're not doing this alone? Again, yes to all the above. It can definitely be overwhelming sometimes. I also sometimes get imposter syndrome because I recognize that, like, I'm very new to this fight, relatively speaking, and there are people who have literally been fighting for 50 years. And so I just want to call attention to that, you know, that people have been doing this work on all scales, on all fronts for a really long time.

Now, I do feel like I've joined this club or I've joined this team and it's a really deep bench and these people are really, really incredible who are doing this work. And, you know, the way that I got to it through loss is not how I ever would have chosen to get here. But now that I'm here, I'm really glad to be a part of this team because it's a community. It's a family and it's actually really beautiful. And it really states that all of my new friends live all across the country, but it also gives me a reason to travel and visit with these folks and continue this work together. Yeah. Well, one of the things I think is pretty impactful about, you know, this reckoning that so many people are having with

how you can't really say, oh, I don't do politics because our entire life exists because of politics and policies from the roads we drive on to the health care we have access to, you know, whether or not we have clean water that comes out of the faucets in our homes, these things that I think for a long time a lot of people thought, well, the adults deal with that somewhere else, and that's not really for me. And it's really kind of a shock to the system when you realize, oh, if not me, then who? But I think it's also, if I may, really important when folks like yourself show up in this way.

Yes, you never would have chosen to wind up on this team going through the loss you went through. But you also are relatable to so many of the women in the country in ways that some of the folks who've been doing this for decades, aren't because there are other people who will say, well, I don't know that I'm not sure I know enough about that. Maybe it's not appropriate for me to have an opinion. And we really need everybody. We need everybody to say, no, I'm pretty sure not killing, you know, women, not denying health care to pregnant people. That should just, that should just be, whether you're new to the

fight or you've been in it from the beginning. And I think our different types and timelines of experience are so valuable in that way. So I don't know. I would never look at you and everything that you have done in the last two years and think you are an imposter of any sort. I think you are such a hero. I think you're incredibly brave. I think you have figured out one of perhaps the most impactful ways in our generation to turn pain into purpose and to inspire other people to do the same and I am yeah I'm just really grateful for all of it well I really appreciate you saying that and I think I think you really hit on something that I like to talk about which is that you know for a long time I think people have felt like oh there's nothing I can do politics is this big machine my vote

doesn't really count you know all of those types of things but I think we're seeing that's just really not the case and one person's voice can can have a huge impact, whether it's, you know, just the conversations that you're having around your own kitchen table or in your own communities. Like, those are the conversations that change people's hearts and minds and ultimately their votes because we know that folks need to see real people attached to these issues, whether it's you or someone you know or someone you saw in the news. That's how we move the needle. And so I hope and I do believe that people are starting to realize, especially with this election season, that their voice really can make a difference. And it is important to get

involved. It's critical. Yeah, it is. And I think especially when you start to realize that no matter how big the system seems, it's just made up of each of us as people. You know, we all know about speaking of Georgia, the, you know, scandal, the attempt at overturning the election, the begging to find just 11,800 votes. We're a country of 332 million people. And when you, you know, realize what the election can come down to and and and the effect that who is in charge can have on on who gets to live i mean literally who gets to live who gets to survive it's it's hopefully the sort of aha moment that will like you said get a lot more people involved i'm i'm curious for you because you talk about you know your timeline the the relative newness of this kind of advocacy for you

and you know now you're out on the campaign trail with the vice president of the united states yeah i i know i've been lucky enough you know as a californian to have her hold so many elected offices in my state and i've seen her advocacy for women and for the LGBTQ community and for you know safety and community and reform and all these things for so long and it was so cool for me to see her be elected as the VP. It's such a personal battle for someone of an office of that level in a way we've never seen before. You know, she's the first president or vice president. I ever even visit a reproductive care clinic. And I guess I'm just wondering, because she can seem so much larger than life, what, what is it like for you just to sit, you know, two women and have conversations

chance about what this fight looks like and especially her perspective, you know, being a leader for so long, is it sort of surreal? Is it way more normal than you would expect? Is it again, all of the above? I have no idea how this podcast has turned into a multiple choice quiz, by the way, but here we are. I was like, I don't know. I've never done this before, but I guess it's all the things. I think you must know that I used to be a teacher, and I love a multiple choice question. Perfect. No, it's great. But yeah, it is, it's surreal that it stopped being surreal. You know what I mean?

Like after the fourth or fifth time that I got to spend time with her, I was like, oh, now it's not so weird when I see her. Not that we're like gal pals, you know, hanging out on the weekends, but I have been very, very fortunate to spend a decent amount of time with her. And I love the opportunity to talk about her as a person because she is. so genuine and personable and kind. And I think we saw that. You talked about this after the D&C. She just brings this joy in this energy. And it's like just mind blowing that she has been such a breath of fresh air. And I want to tell you two stories. One is I had been out on the trail

and it had been a particularly grueling schedule. And I was home for like 20, hours. And being out on the trail can be tough. It's not glamorous. It's a lot of work. And I think she must have known what that's like. And so I was out taking my dog for a walk and I get a call that says, what does it say when it's not blocked, unidentifiable or whatever. I identified call her. I don't know why I answered this call. That is so unlike me. But for some reason, I answered it. I said, hi, this is Amanda. And on the other end, I hear Amanda, it's Kamala Harris. And I was, what? She just called to check in and say, you know, we know that you're out on the trail and you're working hard and thank you.

And I mean, we had this five-minute conversation and she was just a real person that cares about other people. And she takes this very, very personally. The other thing I want to tell you is I was very lucky that I got to take my childhood best friend Molly with me to an event at the White House where I was introducing the vice president. And as part of this, we got to spend some time with the vice president. And my friend Molly was just beside herself and she was very nervous. And when we walked into the vice president's office, Kamala Harris says, hi, Amanda, from across the room. And my best friend just screamed because she couldn't contain her excitement.

And then when we got up to see the vice president, it's a long walk because it's a big office, Molly just started flat out crying. Just bawling. Just bawling. And Tomla just gives her, you know, this big hug and shakes her hand and says, you know, these beautiful things about how our girlfriends are our chosen sisters. There are our chosen family. And she said, I know how much you're supporting Amanda and everything she's doing.

And she's just such a real, compassionate, relatable person. I mean, she's just, she's incredible. Yeah. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. It's something I'm so grateful like you to have seen up close. And the thing I always like to say to people when they ask me about her is I'm like, listen, she's the same. She could be on the national stage talking about what families deserve and what works and you know, all the work they're doing and give this incredible speech or you could be one-on-one in her office or, you know, on the side of some event and she'll just check in and ask how you're doing. She is the same, whether there are, you know, a fleet of cameras pointed at her

or no cameras in the room. And it's so special to see. We know that the other candidate isn't like that. You know, he gets caught on camera calling women fucking bitches and talking about sexual assaulting them and, you know, bragging about Project 2025 and how they're going to take over America and never have to vote ever again. And I'm like, how is this even a race? How is this even allowed? You know, you've got this person who will call a woman who went through an unspeakable tragedy because of the opponent's policies, because of a Trump abortion ban. And she'll just call you and you're walking your dog to check in on you. And this guy is like, out trying to figure out how to deconstruct America and sell off the country for parts to

like the highest bidders in foreign autocracies. And I'm like, what? What is this conversation we're having exactly about like who's more fit to lead the country? I know. Well, and just take a look at who they pick for their running mate, right? You've got the guy from Ohio, whose name I don't even want to say spreading vicious lies and rumors which are inciting so much hate against his own constituents by the way bomb threats against the people he's elected to represent it's such a dereliction of duty yeah and it's the same i feel the same about watching that happen in ohio as i feel about what you've gone through and what so many other women have gone through i'm like you're literally willing to get people killed yeah to to what to incite the worst people in our country

to do the worst things to other humans, that's what you're willing to do to win. You're that power hungry? I know. Meanwhile, you've got Tim Walls showing up to his state fair, rolling up his sleeves, passing out corn dogs and ice cream. Like a man of the people cares about his people, wants to take care of people. I just, I mean, I agree with you.

I can't let myself go down this rabbit hole too much because it's frightening. But how are we here? Like, how is this even a race? I don't understand. There is no choice to me. It's so obvious. Well, it feels like that, right? It's like, sometimes I look around. Is everybody taking crazy pills? Like, where? What's your happening? Seriously. But, you know, I'm really curious, particularly for you, you know, people will ask me, because there's this like big misnomer, right, that you do what I do for a living and you're some crazy elitist. And I'm like, so hold on, the billionaire from reality TV with a plane

convinced everyone else that the rest of us who like only have health care because we're union workers or like somehow the elite ones like what's going on but you know I I think I feel so passionately about this because I've had the good fortune of living all over this country for work I spent 10 years in North Carolina I've lived in Texas I've lived in New York I've lived in California I've lived in New Mexico like I feel lucky to know people like you're talking about through your advocacy. And I know people in so many parts of this country and so many parts of the world also through this work. And what I know about us is that we mostly have the same goals. Like we'd want our families to be safe. We want education to be good. I'd prefer to drive on

roads without potholes than the other way around. Like kind of basic. You know, health care access would be great. I'm really wondering for you as a woman living in Texas now, you know, you are just statistically more surrounded by right-wing leaning women or women who vote that way anyway than I am, you know, today when we're speaking, I happen to be in New York, although it's getting to be more of a toss-up here, which is a stressful conversation for another day. But like, what's your experience in terms of the conversations you have in your hometown, down in your home state? Do you think it's changing now that people understand the real impacts of those judges and what they've done? Does it still feel like an uphill battle?

I mean, I think it's still going to be a lot of work. I think we're still going to have to fight pretty hard, but I can tell you that I have had firsthand experiences not only in Texas where I live now, but also in Indiana, which is where I'm from originally. That's where I grew up in very similar political landscape, conversations like the one you and I are having and like the ones we're having all the time are moving the needle. And like I said earlier, it's these personal stories and putting a name and a face to these issues that I think is what's going to change people's opinions. And I mean, just look at, you know, how often we hear the word abortion now on mainstream news at the DNC, right? A main pillar of the, of the, of the

the entire convention, I think things are changing and they're changing rapidly, but we are going to have to put in the work and we are going to have to realize, you know, obviously we want a Harris Wall's administration, but when they get elected, the work will not be over. We will still have a fight to suit up for. But I think people, I mean, we know statistically, we know the data that most people don't support these extreme abortion bans. And so, I think that's become very clear, and it's because of the conversations that we're having in our own communities. Yeah. And I think people starting to understand the facts. You know, I believe it's 93% of abortions happen in the first 20 weeks. You know, it's early stage experiences that make up most of that type of health care. And, you know, I was really, heartened to hear, I have been really heartened to hear that more people, whether it's, you know, Secretary Buttigieg doing what he does best on Fox News, or even the conversations that we were seeing in the debate, people saying, listen, someone who has to have a late stage abortion isn't

having it because they want to. It's not a, it's not a, you know, decision made on a whim. It's because of a fetal anomaly, it's because of devastating medical news. And I think that might actually be what makes these insane lies from Donald Trump more insulting to me. You know, he has this extreme rhetoric and he says, you know, abortions are happening in the ninth month and babies are being executed after birth. And I was very glad Lindsay Davis said, in no state is that legal. Infanticide is not a thing anyone has legalized ever anywhere. Right. It's insane. saying that a presidential candidate would say that, but here we are. I feel bothered as a woman who has friends and, you know, acquaintances in the fight like yourself who've experienced pregnancy

loss, hearing a presidential candidate say that, you know, people are just having these abortions this late essentially for fun because it's not true. And it's so flies in the face of the work and the hopes and dreams of families that are trying to start or expand their families? What is your reaction, you know, two years into this journey that you are on as an advocate? What does it feel like for you to sit and watch him make those claims from the debate stage? It's so infuriating. I think prior to my experience, I would have maybe scoffed and said something like, oh, my gosh, that's ridiculous. No one does that.

But I agree with you. It feels very personal now. And it's just so disgusting to me that he would make up these lies just to, I don't know why. I don't even know what his purpose is, what he thinks he's accomplishing with that because it's just simply not true. But it is, it does feel like a personal attack. And also the fact that he refuses to acknowledge that the bands that are. allowed to be in place today as a result of him and his administration are having other impacts too that are really, really horrible that are also personal to me. For example, I now have to use

IVF to have children because of what I went through. And so when Alabama and the Supreme Court there ruled, you know, the way that it did that halted IVF services, I just, I was so furious. and I'm like, they just want to make it all about control, like you said. Like when we need an abortion, we can't get one. When we want to have children, we can't have them. And it's just so infuriating because it is all about control. And it's just so backwards and it's just disgusting. Oh, it makes me so mad.

Yeah, it's horrible. And I mean, having been through a long and exhaustive journey with fertility myself, I think about the amount of time and the resources and the trauma and the emotional exhaustion and the sort of reckoning that so many people who go through whatever their unique experience with fertility and fertility treatments look like. And the fact that as you said, because of the side effects of your being forced into sepsis to get the care you needed, you now have to rely on fertility medicine to start a few. family. It's like they want to withhold your future from you, regardless of how much work you're willing to put in for it. But if, God forbid, you have a medical emergency or you were caught by surprise at a time when you simply are incapable in your life and you need to make the right decision for you. Yep. They don't want you to be able to do that either. And it's... I think the thing

that stings the most for me is that these decisions are being made by people that have no experience or knowledge of what they're talking about. They have not gone through this. They haven't experienced it, yet they feel that they have any sort of leg to stand on that they can tell us what to do, even though they've never been through it themselves. They have no awareness, no knowledge. That to me, I think, is the worst part. Yeah, it was very surprising when the GOP started voting against protecting IVF. And you started hearing all these elected men from that party saying, you know, well, we're just trying to make sure people can have babies. And it's like, do you know what IVF is? Exactly. Do you? Oh, dear. And you realize there's a reason politicians

shouldn't have an opinion and pass these sorts of laws that change our access to medical care because they're not doctors. I know it can feel incredibly heavy. And I know, a lot of it is doom and gloom, and I don't want to act as though it's not as serious as it sounds because it is. And yet, I also know that we're all in this fight because we believe there's a way out of the darkness. We believe there's a way forward together. And I'm really curious what you want to share with people in terms of what makes you hopeful or what you think they should be paying attention to because at this point you are on the campaign trail you are sitting with so many experts whether legal or medical or you know in in the political sphere and i wonder what it is

that makes you feel like you can keep doing this i love that question and honestly it's the people that i meet while i'm out on the trail while i'm advocating um while i'm listening it is the people that I meet. It's the people who are fighting in their own communities. It's the people who are providing abortions where they can in their own communities. It's the people who are shepherding patients as they make this really, really difficult decision and take action. And also, I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's the politicians, too. I have met so many wonderful people who are serving our country and they are really fighting for us. And as ugly as the other side can be, it really brings me a lot of peace to know that there

are so many people that are looking out for us and that are trying to protect us and to protect our country, you know, all the way from my own city council up to Kamala Harris. I mean, there are really, really wonderful people that are working for us. And, you know, the more that I travel and the more people I meet, the more I realize that at their core, most people are really good. And even though this is really hard, I like to say that it takes it out of me. It puts me to bed at night, but it also gets me out of bed in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, right?

It's like the thing that, oh, makes you so mad you could just burst into a ball of flames. It's also that fire that, like, it becomes the camp. fire, you know, the fuel that keeps you moving. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it would be a lot easier to not be doing this, but, you know, I just feel such a passion and such a purpose. And I also feel like, okay, we've made it this far. How could I not keep going? How could I not continue in this fight? Now that I know what I know, I can't stop. I won't stop. That's really cool. I really appreciate that. And now for our sponsors. What brings you all joy? I mean, I know it's very heads down. It's very policy focused. You know, we, we, and I say this with no hyperbole to our friends

listening at home, you know, this really is. The elections have ratcheted up, right? They've gotten more and more consequential, but like, this is the one. We either, we either protect this country, for everyone, or we lose it to Project 2025, and it's over for most of us. And I think people don't understand how bad it can get. So I don't want to make light of it, but I also want to honor the person that you are and your whole big, beautiful life and, you know, your joy and your career and your marriage and all of it. And so what's bringing you happiness? What is refilling your cup, you know, for Amanda. And then what's doing that even in your house? Like, for you and your husband as you navigate all of this. Like, what's bringing y'all joy? How are you

staying sane? I appreciate that question. Some days are harder than others. Definitely our people, right? Our circle. My family and friends have been so, so, so supportive, which has been, I think, the only reason that we can continue to do this, and especially at this pace. It's been really remarkable. I remember very shortly after we lost the baby and I was out of the hospital. I was talking to my dad on the phone and he said, how are you and Josh? And I said, we're doing okay, you know, I don't know how to answer that because we just went through something terrible.

And he said, look, I just want to, I want to say, you know, things like this can can sometimes bring a marriage closer and sometimes it can tear a marriage apart. And I said at that point, you know, so far. It's only brought us closer. Like we're doing okay. The two of us are doing okay. But then over the past two years, like it really has brought us so much closer. Every decision that we've made, we've agreed on, we haven't done anything that the other one

hasn't been comfortable with. We have really been lockstep. We really, really are a team. So we bring, we bring each other a lot of joy and our families do as well. We have two dogs that are, I can't believe they're so quietly, peacefully asleep. being right next to me right now, but they bring us joy and, you know, just in the rare days that we're home together and we're not traveling, just living, living life, grilling out and, you know, hanging out, watching football. Yeah, it's like, it's that sort of proverbial, like, I just

got to make sure I keep touching grass. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you got to stay a little bit grounded in your world. Do you think past the election about what you want to do next? Or does it feel like everything's pointing to go here and then we'll reassess afterward? I ask because as we talk, I'm like, well, are you going to run for office? Like, what do you think you do with all of this? But then I'm also reminded that you're doing so much. and that you're so in the fight. And it may have to, I don't know, maybe it's the outcome that dictates what you do next. I think yes and no.

I think a little bit of both. I am fully in this fight now. And actually, I quit my day job in May so that I could do this full time, which was a really good decision. And, you know, right now for the next 50 days, I am focused on this election. and not just the presidential election. I've been active with the Colin Allred campaign. He's running for Senate here in Texas and Ted Cruz. So just helping pretty much any Democrat I can from now until the election is what I'm focused on.

After the election, yes, I do think the outcome will probably dictate a little bit about where I go next. But I think I'm in this fight now and I don't see myself getting out of it. So I definitely could see a future in the political world. old now. I don't know if that looks like, you know, for maybe my state party or my county party or maybe it's someone else's administration. Maybe it's running for office. I think all of the doors are open right now. So we'll just kind of see what shakes out. That's really cool. I think he would be wonderful for what it's worth. And also, yes, go Colin Allred. He's just the coolest. He's awesome. And he's just like Kamala Harris in that he's a real person that is so nice.

and so genuine and he just cares about people. Like he's just a good person. That's who you want in office. That's who you want leading the country. Yeah, absolutely. People that are willing to show up for their neighbors. Like it's not rocket science. How can we myself and all the listeners of this podcast support you in between now and the election and even after? I think, you know, 50 days on the one hand, feels really far away, but it also feels very close. I think we just have to keep the momentum up. I really do not want people to become apathetic because this has been such a charged election

and people are tired and I get it. But we have to land the plane. We have to finish the job. And so continuing to talk about the issues that are important to, obviously for me it's reproductive rights, keeping these stories alive, keeping these conversations going.

I think that's going to be critical. And then also making sure that you vote, you help other people get to the polls. I think everything we can do to make sure that we elect pro-choice candidates is critical from now until November. And then as I said before, you know, no matter what happens, the fight won't be over. There will still be work to do. And so I think, you know, I'm hopeful that we'll be able to have a quick party, a quick celebration, but then we're going to have to get back to work. And so stay vigilant, stay informed, pay attention.

And then, you know, whatever speaks to you, whether it's volunteering, whether it's donating, time more money, I think those are all things that anyone can do. Absolutely. And that's just it. It's any extra bit of engagement and whether that is, like you said, having these conversations with your family and friends, signing up for a shift phone banking, donating what you can, all of it really does matter because every. single vote matters. And, you know, somebody said something I thought was great. They were like, look, a vote's not a love letter. You've got two candidates. That's it. You've got to vote for one of them. And in reality, who would you trust? Even if you didn't agree with them, who would you trust to be willing to sit with you and come up with a compromise that works for everybody? I don't really think there's, you know, I don't think there's a question there. I think there's only one answer and it's the sort of thing that I think is an important reminder

because yeah, there's a lot of us that are fully team Kamala ready to go. I cannot wait to see a president Kamala Harris. And I always want to make space for folks who are coming into this differently or later than us and just say, look, at the end of the day, you don't get to root for a team that's not in the Super Bowl. Like, this is it. This is our Super Bowl. And we've got to make sure that we have leadership that actually cares to listen to Americans, that actually cares about the, you know, votes in states that will put the things we vote for on the ballot. I mean, you've seen this. You know, I'm sure it's something you guys talk about a lot on the reproductive rights tour,

but there's states where voters have put protection for abortion on the ballot, And these states are refusing to put those amendments on the ballots. They're trying to sue in their state courts not to do it. And it's a literal refusal to listen to the will of the American people. And that's not what our elected officials are supposed to do. That's exactly right. Well, they're trying to ensure that these measures don't get on the ballot because they know that they're going to win. Because people, every time we see abortion rights on the ballot, we win.

And they know that. And so they're trying to prevent it from happening, which is, to your point, completely not how this country should work. Yeah. So at the end of the day, I'm like, I think authoritarian have to be shown the door. We can disagree and we can debate and we can really crunch together on how to get to the best solution for the most amount of people. But what we can't do is ignore the will of the American public. It's just, it's a no for me. Yep, that's a hard pass.

Hard pass. Exactly. Well, Amanda, I'm curious, you know, there's obviously so much going on in these 50 days and in the last two years of, you know, work you've been doing and processing that you've been doing. And of course, as you said, so much to be done even after the election. We have such a long way to go to restore protections for people to pass smart policy, even like paid family leave to take care of families of this country. But for you, when you kind of pull back and, you know, grill out with your friends or walk the dog or, you know, whatever the touchgrass might be, just for yourself, what feels like your work in progress right now? Oh, I am just a constant work in progress. I think, you know, something that Josh and I are still working on is building a family. And as I mentioned, we're not going to be able to do that probably just by chance. We're going to have to put a lot of work into that. But it's something that we're moving forward with. And, you know, we're really, really hopeful.

We've had a lot of bad news in the last two years, but we've also had some good news. So we're hopeful that one way or another will still. be able to grow our family. Yeah. Well, I will definitely keep my, you know, my fingers and toes crossed for you guys. I really, I really hope that on the other side of a lot of heartache, there's a lot of joy. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Of course. And by the way, speaking of being a constant work in progress, I'm like, join the club, sister. Aren't we all though? I think we all. I think we are. I really think we are. Well, I just can't thank you enough for taking the time today. It really means the world.

And I know that it's not easy to continue to have to share your story. But you are absolutely changing hearts and minds. And you're doing such a service to people who might not have otherwise understood the reality of what these bills look like and what they do to people to families. And so I just want to add my voice to the probable cacophony of thanks that you. here out in the world, you absolutely deserve all of the gratitude. Wow. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And, you know, like I said, I really appreciate you and everyone in this community for all of the hard work that we're doing and folks like you that can use your platform for something like this is really hardening.

So honored to stand with you and by you and just so grateful to be part of this. Likewise. It is an honor. This is an I-Heart podcast.