Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Carrie Preston

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

From a small-town girl doing plays as an 8-year-old in Macon, Georgia, to being a leading lady on her own hit TV show! Carrie Preston shines as 'Elsbeth Tascioni' in one of CBS' most successful dramas, a show she thought would never see the light of day!Carrie Preston is opening up to Sophia about reprising the Emmy-winning role of 'Elsbeth,' which viewers first saw on the small screens 15 years ago in "The Good Wife," and what it's like playing a woman of a certain age reinventing herself. She also shares her journey to becoming an actress, director, and producer and using her platform for good.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress. We have a guest today who has been dubbed the Queen of Quirk by the New York Times. and you know how I love a quirky lady. Carrie Preston joins us on the show today. I am so excited to talk to her

about how she built her unconventional attorney named Elzbeth Tusconi in her hit series Elspeth because this character actually originated in a guest episode on The Good Wife and just kept coming back for more, then appeared on The Good Fight, and then apparently think,

to a Colombo rewatch, the creators said, hold the phone. That's the show that Elspeth needs. I want to talk to Carrie about how she's carried this incredible character over 15 years, how she figures out how to make so many people in the world feel represented on screen, what brings her joy as an artist and how she found her artistic voice. It was earlier than you might think. And what it's like to figure out ways to use her platform for good, being so rooted in joy. From supporting the LGBTQ community with Glad to advocating for folks with Parkinson's

alongside Michael J. Fox and his foundation, Carrie really takes her goodness on screen to off, and I just can't wait to hear from her how she manages to balance it all. Let's dive in with Carrie Preston. Thank you for coming on the show. I'm so geeks that you're here. You're just the absolute coolest human,

and I'm, like, really amped about it. Well, I should say first that I was on a jury once for an indie film festival and hard luck love song. Yeah. Was one of the in competition, and it was like such an easy, this should be the winner for me.

Oh, my gosh. It did win. So there you go. Carrie, thank you. You and Michael, you guys were great together. Oh, thank you. We had such a special time making that movie. The two of you were just like electric together.

I don't even know. I mean, it was just like riveting from the minute it started. And it was brilliant. And the whole thing. It was great. Oh, thank you so much. That really means a lot. I really appreciate that.

Yeah, and you were awesome. Thanks. Well, you're so awesome. And I just, I love when I get to sit down with people who's work. I adore and who are just doing such cool things in the world. But I kind of like to go back to catch up to where we are. Because I feel like when you're a person who, you know, folks know, they love watching you on TV, you know, they know your body of work.

They know you and I know you as this person. But I wonder if, you know, you got to be in, you know, your own sci-fi movie and hang out with yourself when you were nine or ten you know like have a day in the park in the city with your younger self would you do you think you would see yourself today in her and do you think she would be like oh cool I see how I turned into you or did your life just take like a totally unexpected series of turns and you had no idea you'd be doing this for a living you know um i grew up in making georgia okay and you know that's a smaller town it's not it's not the smallest you know it's a but it's in georgia and you know um there weren't like

actors that were coming up in that town do you know what i mean it was it wasn't like that was the thing that you you would you would aspire to do was to be an actor yeah you didn't grow up like next to Times Square. I wasn't like going to the professional after school or any of that stuff. Yeah. But I'm definitely a little bit of what you might call a lifer.

You know, I started doing when I was eight years old. My older brother, John, he started doing community theater. And I was like, I want to be like him. So I started doing plays. And we had very supportive parents, my mom,

my mom's an artist she was a painter a sculptor and um did art therapy wow which I didn't even knew what that was I mean she called it expressive art she didn't get a degree in art therapy but she got it she got certified and expressive art which is very similar so she was doing that kind of thing my dad geotechnical engineer so he's like the left brain side of things wow you know and my mom was like the right brain side of things and luckily they They didn't try to fight us on that. Like, you know, they were like, you want to be creative. We're going to let you do that.

I mean, I was, I was, when I was like six years old, I remember playing in the front yard and acting like there were cameras in the trees and then trying to act natural. Wow. Like, I don't know why. I don't know how that, but feeling like cameras were watching. so that was just something that I don't know was maybe ingrained to me but you know by the time I'm 12 I started my own theater company with the kids in the neighborhood you know I was that I was that kid who just was like I love to do this now I don't know if it was because I needed more

order in my life I don't know what it was but I I was gravitating towards it and I started doing community theater and I would you know and but I wasn't playing like the leads I was always playing the comic sidekick I was always playing like you know and I would put on the the fanny pack and the classes and the you know I would do the funny character voices I was already messing around with that not really knowing what I was doing wow it's so interesting that you say that every once in a while I think about moments in my own childhood where I go oh there it was where, you know, my parents would be out and I was finally old enough to stay home by myself and I'd be like doing a scene in the living room alone because I felt like, oh, I've got

a house all to myself and now I can work on this. And even now, I mean, this morning I was walking from one end of the subway station to the other to catch a train. And I was like, God, this whole thing just feels like a movie. And I catch myself realizing like if I was shooting this i'd have a camera on a dolly track over there and oh look at that cool and there's a guy with a you know a violin over here and i'm always thinking about it that way but i i didn't i guess i've never really even thought to talk about that until you just did and i went oh we do we do have a weird thing that we do i guess when we're artists yeah yeah i mean because otherwise why would we be doing it because it's a very hard business to get into so there must be you know

and to maintain and to be in yeah and to maintain and do it and do all of the peripheral things that go go along with it yeah no including the not getting the job part which is way more than the getting the job part oh yeah all of that stuff if we didn't have this i don't know original kernel of yeah this is this is what i what i need to do i at least need to try to do it or i got to be creative in some way and i've always felt that way like i got to be in some way. Like, even when I was younger, yes, it was the acting part, but I started directing and writing and doing all that stuff at the same time because I just wanted to make things, you know? And I would also make puppets and paint and make, you know,

because my mom was an artist, you know, we were always doing, you know, some kind of arts. So there was an appreciation for it and just a desire to express myself in some way. And so that has come in handy as my life has gone on in this creative pursuit because when I find that, okay, well, maybe I'm not being hired right now, well, I'm going to go ahead and make my own stuff. Right. There's that empowerment there that I think, I think it was nurtured. I'm lucky.

It was nurtured at a young age by parents who didn't try to talk me out. it by teachers who were like, yeah, yeah, you could do that. We don't quite know how to teach you how to do that, but we can get you to the places that can, you know, that kind of thing. That's really, really very cool. Because what I'm hearing you talk about is the fact that as the phrase goes, because you could see it, you were empowered to believe you could be it. Your mom was an artist, so you could be an artist. And I think to be given the tools to express, yourself from such a young age and then to have that natural inclination to want to use those tools be fostered what a cool um just what a cool series of empowering events that must have felt like as a

kid yeah yeah it did and and and also just the um the joy of it you know um yeah the you know how it is like when you when you key and when you're doing the role and it just starts to take over and you just feel like you're expressing something bigger you're in charge of giving something bigger to the world you know yes you know that the the the translation of what it is to be a human through you know through your your instrument you know I don't know that there's just something very thrilling about that. And it feels like a contribution. Yeah.

Yeah, I always, I talk about this sort of singularity I experience where it feels like for me, the journey into the character where it really comes alive in me, it's the amount of work it requires and the creativity and the excitement and the joy you're talking about. And then suddenly I feel feelings. that I know or not mine, but my body doesn't know or not mine. And in that moment, it's like those feelings can represent everyone who might watch it. At some point, I can give it away. And it's, you know, it's like the, it's like the two butterfly wings.

And I feel like I'm just in the body in the center. And it's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Like Martha Graham says, the body never lies. Yeah. You know, and so sometimes it can be a little, you got to like, work on your own mental health because sometimes

majorly like you just said your body doesn't know and so suddenly you're carrying some kind of trauma around that you actually don't have so yeah you have to like that's an interesting part of our job nobody ever really talks about is like you you really have to have some mental health practices if you want to stay sane and do this for a living it sounds like you got to build such a big toolkit from such an early age. But to your point, you know, making Georgia is not time square. Was it a surreal kind of

adjustment for you to leave home and come to Juilliard and be in the mix of this city and that kind of professional pursuit? Well, I got the great privilege and benefit of going to some undergraduate schools before. So I got to have a little bit of a bridge. Okay. You know, so I went to, first I went to the College of Charleston for a couple of years. And then I met a professor there who said, let's get you some stronger training than we have here. So they got me, he got me to audition for a very tiny, but very powerful little liberal art school in southern Indiana called the University of Evansville. And there was a professor of David Lutz who had started that program and fostered the

program and turned it into really a world-class little training wound. And so I went there for a couple of years and really got some really solid training. And one of the things that he and the professors there take great pride in is that they help place their students in the top graduate acting schools in the country. Oh. Yeah. And so they really have like an incredible rate still of student to, you know, Juilliard Yale, NYU, UCSD, like the, you know, some some really solid, solid training grounds. And I love school. I was one of those weirdos that just loved me too. And I couldn't say enough of it. So I just kept going, you know.

So, because I ended up going from undergrad to four years at Julia. Julia was at the time when I was there a four year program. And so, you know, that was an additional four years. But it was a really good way for a small town girl to acclimatize herself to that, what you were saying, large ocean of a place, you know. And so I had that, I had the, I had the. the, you know, the benefit of being in a school that could prepare me for it. And so having that kind of insulated vibe, but still being right smack in the middle of

Manhattan, you know, at Lincoln Center, you know, which had its wonderful, you know, benefits, which was going, getting to go see all those shows and, you know, around all those different artists at that school. Yeah. all the different disciplines, you know, really shaped me and gave me even more of an appreciation of all the fellow artists that, you know, I had the privilege of being around. What were some of your favorite things that you got to do as a student there? I mean, we were there, you know, from 8 a.m. until like midnight, you know, every day we were there. And so we would have these like classroom projects.

You know, so it felt like we were just doing these plays for each other and for the faculty and for each other. And so that we were able to feel like less of the pressure of performance. The school, the program is built to kind of lead you up to the public performance side of things. And, you know, to get you in a place where you. you feel free and stuff. And you're working with the same people. You know, you have your core class and that's who you go through this four years with. You know, for better and sometimes for worse.

I mean, it's a lot, you know, it's a little bit like boot camp for acting. You know, there's a joke that some people call it the jail yard school. Because, you know, you're kind of stuck in this like, you know, pressure cooker in some ways. I found it to be invigorating. I'm still very close to a lot of my classmates. And we had a crazy class, but along the way, we formed our own theater company. And we ended up doing a season, a couple of plays in between in the summer, between our second and third year of school.

And so that was like a really special thing, too, to get this group of people and take what we were learning. out into the world and that's really cool and the desire to keep going you know it's your summer break and all you want is more of what you're doing in school what a great indicator that you're on the right life path right yeah exactly that's so cool got to um because i was studying the classics you know i was learning how to do shakespeare and stuff from a from the very beginning of college, I started auditioning for summer Shakespeare programs. And pretty much every summer, I would go to, you know, Georgia Shakespeare, Utah Shakespeare, California, Shakespeare.

I would do, I would get to do Shakespeare. Even when we did our little Juilliard company, we did a Shakespeare play. So, you know, I was constantly cutting my teeth on, you know, some of the most, you know, iconic literature, dramatic literature that they're, the stuff that we all keep going back to. Yeah. Artists. I love that.

How fun. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. I imagine when you get to reflect you, you know, they say hindsight's 2020, right? Like you see everything so clearly. You see what you were. building and what you loved and was coming back to this character of Elspeth, did it kind of feel as exciting as the way you're talking about looking back on that Shakespeare period? Because it's not lost on me that you started playing this character 15 years ago and then played her

across two shows. And now you're playing her in this third show. It's like, it feels like a thing you get to revisit and build and build and build on in a war. world and maybe it's a stretch but in my in my observation in this moment I'm like hold on it almost feels like you returning to Shakespeare over and over and over again it's like you're getting to do a version of that now or does that track or does that feel crazy that tracks I hadn't really connected that those dots so thank you for that because it really it really is making me think about it in a in a way that feels like it's part of a longer trajectory you know um there's not a day that goes by that i'm not amazed grateful and humbled by getting to play this character

not a day goes by because it is um like you just said it's not lost on me it is really not lost on me um i'm i'm i'm a 58 year old woman who has been doing character roles my whole career happily supporting i've had played leads in movies etc indies and stuff but mostly i'm you know i've been there to support you know and happily you love it you know um love being trusted with those kinds of roles, you know, when I first started out, you know, everybody always wants to kind of pigeonhole you and tell you like, this is your type, you know? And so when I was young, it was like, you're the ingenue. And I was always like, okay. But I don't make that ingenue really interesting, because like I don't want to just play, you know, like the pretty young thing,

like, especially in Shakespeare. Yeah. And when I first, got out of Juilliard, I got to audition for The Tempest, which was being done as Shakespeare in the park. It was George C. Wolf, the great director's first Shakespeare that he'd ever directed. It was Patrick Stewart playing Prospero. And I was auditioning for Miranda, which is, you know, one of the ingenues in the Shakespeare canon. But I was like, yeah, but if you're girl who's, you know, 15 and you have only, since you were a baby, lived on an island with a bunch of dudes, your dad, a monster, a family, you know, you're going to be like the pretty girl in the dress. Like, how are you going to know how to do that? No way. You're

going to be one of the lost boys. You're going to be a tomboy. You want to be, so I went whole hard on that, you know, hot off on my hair. went for the tomboy, the gamme, you know, thing and really tried to turn that character into somebody, a different interpretation of that role. And got, you know, got the part, got to do it. We moved it to Broadway and I made mad at Broadway debut doing that. And I thought, no, you don't have, you can be a character actor in a monogynous package. you can be is what we're always doing character acting i mean we're creating characters right

like aren't we supposed to be doing that we're not supposed to be doing the audience's interpretation of what the leading lady is we're supposed to bring who we are yes married well read on the page the text work that we do the work we do with the other actors the work we do with the director and create something that's fresh so i felt that And that's part of just because I went to school and I was, you know, taught to do the deep, you know, mining of the character. So when I got the role, this is all leading up to, when I got the role of Elsbeth, I tried to apply the same principles to that as I had to be Shakespeare roles. Like, what are we going to do with this character that makes her different? Yeah.

How are I going to bring myself, what am I going to do? How does this woman think? You know, just started doing that deeper work. and not just be now part of it was what was written but you know not just be like the the lawyer of the week like what can we do this something something singular and the fact they were given they gave me that license the world fantastic that always starts with the page but they gave me that license and then kept inviting me back to wow and then and then it it became this alchemy between what they were writing and what I was doing.

And, you know, here we are. But there was no guarantee that, like, we would get to do our show that would. Hey. Like, when they told me, this was in 2020 when Robert and Michelle, you know, reached out to me because it was COVID. We were all on lockdown. They were seeing the end of the good fight. They knew that that was going to be coming to an end soon.

and they were like, what are we going to do next? And they had been re-watching episodes of Colombo. And they were like, huh, maybe we could put Elspeth Tassione in a situation like that. Then simultaneously, Elizabeth Vincenelli, who's a writer at the New York Times, wrote an article about what she was doing during COVID, was watching episodes of Colombo. And the last line of the article was, we don't need a reboot of Colombo, just give Ellsby. Beth Tassione, her own show. No. Yes.

And then I'm just sitting there. Right? So Robert and Michelle, they saw that, Robert and Michelle King, and they saw that, and they were like, okay, that's like, this is weird because this is how we were thinking.

And then they started the process. But that was in 2020. And they called and they were like, do you want to do this? And I was like, yeah, I mean, obviously. Obviously. And then it just wouldn't happen,

wouldn't happen for years. And I was like, okay, I guess it's not going to happen. And then, you know, whatever a year and a half ago. And now Elspeth is back. When you look back to the beginning, you know, when you talk about that character work, you know, the ways you wanted to build her into more than just a lawyer of the week, what are the things that you started to noodle with 15 years ago that have become so core to your character now?

Yeah, that's a good question because I don't like to. revisit like my past work too much yeah my head I also am like oh I look so much younger you know I go to like crazy places everybody else it's really glad to have to watch yourself be a human on film oh my god mostly you're just in our bodies looking out so to have to look at yourself all the time it's weird it's a weird experience a weird experience and it can really mess you up so I try not to do that but before we started this the series that else about the series and I thought, well, just go back because I'd like to see, like, what I did back then. Because I don't remember it was 15, you know, I'd like to see.

So I watched Elvis's first appearance, and it was facet. First of all, it was like, I know what you, I know you must relate to this. It's like watching somebody else. Yeah, it's like, it's almost like watching your sister. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they look like you. Yeah, they look like you. familiar but also like a stranger like a stranger yeah it's like revisiting this person that you

used to be yeah or it's like maybe it's like my child or something there was something i felt very i felt very maternal towards her you know like this but um i could tell that i was you know i was finding my way i mean this was like a guest spot you know so and and you're there when you're to a guest spot, which I've done so very many of in my career, you're there to serve. Oh, yeah. You're there to serve what they need to do to be a support to those other actors. And I love, I love that. But there's a lot of pressure, too, because you can't go in there and start, like, mess and

around. You know, they, they've hired you, they've hired you to be the pinch hitter to come in, do, you know, do the same, because we don't have time. We've got to get this thing done. but I knew that on the page there was something that was a sparkle to this character that I knew they wanted me to do something different and even then 15 years ago Robert King said to me

we're thinking about her like a female Colombo and I said oh okay I think I know what that means that they want her to be unexpected unconventional all of the box they want her to be somebody that the audience and then the people around her don't see coming. So I just thought, let me figure that out.

And you can see I was tentatively doing it, but it was there, you know, the kind of odd way in which she thinks and stuff. It was there, but I wasn't really letting the full freak flag fly yet. Because I didn't know if it was okay to do that, you know? Right. And so I did a couple of episodes at the end of season one. And then I didn't hear anything for an entire season. So I thought I blew it.

I thought, I didn't do enough or I did too much for something. So I let it go. I said goodbye. I was like, oh, well, I did it. It was fun. People seemed to like it. But, you know, that's it. And then they called me back in season three.

And they were like, okay, we have a whole work. Wow. And then I was able to go, oh, okay. And then I worked with the director and the show, you know, worked with them. and they kind of pushed me, you know, to go further with what I was starting to do. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because as someone who's observing, you know, from the outside into your world, I see that there's so much wonderful praise for your depiction of this character,

that people feel really seen and really represented, and they talk about how she is a really positive example of neurodivergence. and brilliance. And folks talk about, you know, she's got traits of ADHD and I'm like, thank you for putting us on TV to, you know, traits that could be identified as being on the autism spectrum. Are those things that you have studied and consciously thought about? You know, do you get into a Columbo-esque character with obsession for detail and pattern recognition and things that we now know are often signs of that sort of, like, neurodivergent sparkliness, did they come naturally because of something like you said that

was on the page and then you started to realize what you were representing or is it kind of a mixed bag of all of it? Well, I'm very careful and the writers and everyone on the show are very careful to never diagnose her. I find that that would then become a definitive. And then I would have to represent that thing and and then uh i would ultimately and we would ultimately not live up to that because everybody is different um what i find really fascinating about laying her is that and what people seem to respond to is that she is decidedly that who she is and It's a unique and singular just like anybody who's on what the spectrum of humanity. Yes.

And you know what I mean? And so I've honored, you know, that I'm given that responsibility, but also that gift of playing somebody that has that kind of mind that is so. unique, that is ingenious, and that also tender, vulnerable, mind, and smart, and extremely capable. What I love about it is that I feel like it's a story about a unique person who is interested with a amount of responsibility but it's also about a woman who's of a certain age who is reinventing herself yeah he isn't settled into she she's she's trying to improve herself she's trying to change things that she's done in the past you know to build that path the journey of self discovery of of learning self inventory what what I love what you're saying is it's

It's so universal. And then I imagine in a way because you can see, you see who she is, you have a representation to how her brain works in its own way. But I think the sort of ingenious thing about not, to your point, deciding on any specific term or specific diagnosis, is that by being in that spectrum, so many people get to see themselves in you on screen. Yes. In a way, being so incredibly specific about who Ellsbeth is allows you to be universal for so many people.

And I think you just put your finger on, I think, just acting, you know. And responsibilities as actors is as specific as possible so that it has become something that everyone can find a way into. Yeah. I think it's cool. That's why you're a good actor because you understand that. Oh, that's so kind. coming from you. I think about the women that you've built this world with as well. I mean, talk about the three of you, incredible actors, you, Julianna Margulies, the iconic Christine

Baranski. I once was at some event with her and she like walked by and I heard myself and I know she heard me. I went and I was like, oh, don't be the weirdo who like gasps because you see this amazing woman and and I think about these shows, you know, three of these shows. You know, three of these shows that have built out this world and your your creators you've mentioned them Robert and Michelle are they just the coolest people to work with it I feel as a viewer like they really love and respect women and our intellect not just our capabilities as you know mothers or leaders or whatever but but our prowess is it is it just what What's your sort of experience like on that side?

You know, how do you all work as a team? How do you figure out what you want the show to look like and feel like? Or have you just been doing it together for so long now that it's almost second nature? Yeah, I mean, well, the thing about Robert and Michelle King is they are incredibly strong leaders. and part of that leadership is that they empower all of their team. And I know this because I've also worked with them as a director because I've directed some episodes of The Good Fight. And so I got to be a part of the prep,

which is where you really see how the people who are in charge of the show convey what it is that they need the director to do. And so I also feel like they build like a real ensemble

of actors that they keep going back to and they enjoy working with. Like they find the people that they speak the same language as them and then they continue to employ them. When we went into Ellsbeth and this show got picked up to series.

You know, the first thing I did was I texted Christine Bransky and I texted Juliana Margulies and I thanked them because I wouldn't be here without them and that I felt this great responsibility and privilege of kind of picking up the baton and carrying it forward. Robert and Michelle did this. same thing with one of their former writers who had been with them Jonathan Tolens they passed the baton to him and John Collins is our showrunner so their exact producer

runs our show he runs our writer's room he's the one who has really created this world he took what Robert and Michelle did with the pilot honored it and then they gave him him the power to really shape it into his show. They're involved, of course, but John is our, is our guy. When he comes to set, I call him Daddy. He's very receptive to any input that I need to have, which is pretty, I don't really have that much than I need to say, because the writing is so great. And I do feel so great about it.

but if I have a question, very receptive. So there is, you know, this sense of not controlling, but leading. Yeah. Gosh, that's beautiful. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too. It must just be the kind of place that constantly makes you feel like you get to grow. I mean, I think about, you know, even as you. you said, you know, you're, I can't believe you're 58. That's, I mean, I'm like, what?

But, you know, at, you talk about your early career and everyone's looking for the next ingenue. And it is really profound to, at least for me as a viewer, and I would imagine for you as an actor, to continue, the fact that you're continuing to build your own world, you know, in an industry where we've all been told, well, once you're 40, you'll never work again. And it's like, I'm going to work forever. And look at you. You're building this space and this show is so wonderful. And the reception to it is so wonderful. And, you know, you get to work with people that you love. You get to be partners with Jonathan. You know, your husband came and guest turned on your show. It's like you look like you're having a really good

time. I am. I'm having the time of my life. I am. And when I'm not, you know, because it's hard. The schedule is, you know, it's a tough schedule. Like, you know, we're doing those episodes in eight or nine days, and I'm in pretty much every, you know, scene. So it's, it's, I don't have very much, and whenever I'm not on, whenever I'm not saying words, I'm learning other words.

And so it's, you know, it's, there's a lot of juggling. But I'm like, I've always been a multitasker. I mean, I think that's one thing that Elspethyone and I, have in common is that we both are pretty good at multitasking yeah I love that so I can bring that you know to to the character and stuff but I am having the time of my life because that it has come at this time I'm I mean I said I was 58 I will be a 58 in two months but I feel like I'm already 58 but 57 I will be 58 in two months but yeah so I feel like you know it's not I don't want to waste a moment you know well you're

You're on fire. As long as they'll let me do it, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do it. Does it, does this experience at this stage? Because to your point, you know, you've been a working actor for a long time. You've got an incredible career. But does this moment, you know, the toughness of the schedule, sure, but also the excitement to be doing it and you so clearly love the work, the writing, all of it, does it shift your perspective on your own midlife?

Does it kind of reconstitute for you what longevity means, feels like, looks like? Yeah, yeah, it really does. I mean, sometimes I have these thoughts of like, why did I give this? I just somebody give me this responsibility when I was like in my, you know, where it was I had this endless amount of energy. And I thought, well, because that wasn't the time. like you know and and it wasn't lined up it wasn't lined up when I was doing shows in my 30s that they were all like all the leads were like dudes you know so you know what I mean it was just like

yeah it had to be now it had to be the time when you know I was going to be the show that comes on after Kathy Bates yeah you know like it just sort of needed to be that and maybe I needed to have a little bit more of the maybe I needed to be a little more seasoned to bring you know some of the I don't know just some of what it is to be at this at this late in my late 50s and doing this you know it's a different person than was back then and um I also think it's just tremendously interesting sorry to cut you off there but I'm like wait it's so cool yeah I know I feel that I feel that way and I feel I feel a responsibility to represent a woman of that age who's not attached to a man, who's not about, you know, beauty on the outside as much as she is about beauty in the brain

and love and joy and positivity and overcoming things and beyond things. And just all, she's infectious. It infects me. Yeah. Yeah. And everything about her, you know, from the way her brain works to even the way she moves through the world, I mean, I'm obsessed with her obsession with tote bags. You know, it's such a fun little quirk. It's a detail that is fun for me as an actor to think about you coming up with. And I, you know, I love having like the big motivational artistic conversation. And then part of me is so

curious. Like, what do you think is the weirdest thing in her back? Exactly. But we did a whole episode where we had a Konmari type person played by the brilliant Mary Louise Parker, who I'm obsessed with. Icon. I mean, the icons that I've gotten to work with on this show, beyond. Beyond. But anyway, she makes me go through my toes. And I was very worried. I even said to John Tolens, I was like, I called him. I don't usually do that, but I called him and said, I am worried. I don't know if we want to open up the mystery bag.

So do you think it's more interesting, serious about what's in the bag than showing, showing what's in it. You know, because it's sort of like, we don't want to talk too much about her brain because it's more interesting and surprising to just watch her do her thing.

Yeah. And he assured me that, you know, that we would do it. it in a way that was responsible and I was and I you know I said well we need to at least talk about her emotional connection to it that it's not just just carrying a bunch of random things around right there's a real thing carrying them around and I always think about it in terms of um it's like a security blanket or it's something that you know makes her feel confident armored it's like armor

that she's bringing out into the world and and that just means that there are a lot of things in there that she thinks that you might need that could be a sandwich because she's got hungry later and some string cheese but also you know some you know the encyclopedia Britannica an abacus like just whatever it is that she thinks she might need to help unlock something you know and so I think about it that way and then and I've talked about this before I made the decision pretty early on that when Ellsbeth shows up to solve the crime, to make the arrest,

she doesn't have the bags. Because she isn't even... She's not in the process of solving. Right. I love that. She's not encumbered, and she's, you know, stands in her own, you know, confidence and truth in that moment. Wow. That's very, very cool. That's very cool.

Are there other things you've found her through in terms of decision making? Like, do you know what her favorite cocktail is? Does she have a favorite snack? Is there like a must have wardrobe item for her that goes along with her toolkit in her bags. You know, some of the things you've selected for her that we might know or that we might not. Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I, there's, we have the most genius costume designer working in the business, Daniel a lot, awesome, who's costumed, good wife, good fight, Elspeth, like the through line, the character doesn't exist without him. I show up and stand there like a paper doll.

and he hands me the character. Yes. So I totally completely trust him. Our fittings are epic. The closet that he builds for me is it takes like almost half of the whole, you know, thousands of clothes. And they're just so so delightful and so specific. We started coming up with this idea that because Elizabeth has moved to New York and

she's such a tourist and she loves New York so much. Yeah. Wherever she goes and whatever crime and the world of the crime that she goes into, she gets a little something from it. Yeah. You know what I mean? So we find like tote bags from the, or a little, look, we had an episode about tennis. So I have like a little brooch sometimes that I wear the tennis racket.

And then the, like, towards the end of the season, Dan came in and he was like, don't you think Elfeth is probably playing pickleball by now? I mean, I would have never thought of that. But I'm like, of course she's playing pickleball. Because everyone's playing pickleball, and I'm sure she's terrible. But she's going to go in there and try to do it. So he had this little brooks that was pickleball, a little pickleball paddle. And we just put that on.

So he, I work so closely with the costume department and with him. You know, I'll come, I'll find some, some knitted thing. Then I'll say, don't you think that she needs to be wearing this? and we will put that in there or you know a certain boat or whatever and so we find those little details together as far as like

way earlier on and good wife Elspeth said you don't want to see me drunk you don't want to see me drinking so she doesn't drink so that's right but she but she love Shirley Temples so the prospect

what they will do with a Shirley Temple for me like we will show up and they'll say do you think there's a place for for you to have a Shirley Temple if we do like a scene in a restaurant or a bar and so we did this we did this episode that was set in a restaurant it was about a chef played by the again another person I worship Pamela Adlon played a chef brilliant and we're in this like super high-end restaurant and um they had you know Shirley Temple and I was like no let's put it in the tiniest little glass

because all the food is tiny yes it's a tiny Shirley Temple and then I'm going to try to drink it yes so they put it there and I was like they're going to cut this but I did this whole latte with this whole

bit with the trying to drink the thing with the thing and the little umbrella and stuff and just like having the hardest time with it and thankfully they kept it in the cut they're putting a lot of my little I call them L's bits They probably cut the hell's bits because, you know, they have to sort of the time and plot and story. But when they keep my little moments in, I'm always very, I feel victorious.

That's so much fun. And, you know, it isn't lost on me that you, with this platform that you've built, you've, you know, not only leaned into such great content, but you use your platform for advocacy. You know, you support LGBTQ rights with Glad. You work with the Michael Fox Foundation and support folks battling Parkinson's. You know, how do you decide what you're going to lend your time to and how you're going to show up? Yeah. I can think it's just, you know, being raised by people, my parents were very much about, you know supporting acceptance love um and uh and and and advocating for um people who maybe don't have a

voice or people who disenfranchised um and you know early early on like in college and stuff i always feel like still am feel like even though i'm married to a man i'm very much part of the queer community. So I felt like I want to bring a voice to them, especially now when their voices are being taken away. Early on in my career, when I started directing, I started making movies and projects for the LGBTQ audience. 20, 25 years ago, there wasn't as much content. And so And I wanted my, my producing partners and I wanted to make, you know, projects that were less about maybe romantic relationships and more about, you know, a coming of age or we made a movie called Ready Okay about a little boy who wants to be a cheerleader and just mother and how she's struggling with her kid being different. And so, you know, making something that you could show at a P flag meeting, you know, something that you could show at a P flag meeting, you know, something that you can. could take your parents to and go, this is, this is, this is what I'm going through.

Yeah. You know ways to do that and tell stories that way. I do believe that stories have the power to change the world. And so we, as artists are responsible for changing the world a lot of the time. And so I feel, you know, a lot of privilege and responsibility in telling those stories and bringing them to light. And then also, you know, my father passed away. from complications from Parkinson's, so I'll watch him go through that for 20 years.

One of my best, best friends has Parkinson's. My, you know, a cousin mine has Parkinson's. Like, it's, there's a lot of people we have Parkinson's in this world, and they're making great strides. Michael J. Fox, I remember I did an episode of Spin City way back. We got to, you know, meet Michael J. Fox, and when he was first starting to deal with Parkinson's and just being so impressed with how he was using his platform. and he said his organization has made.

It's just so important to keep an eye on that so that we as, you know, as the audience and we as fellow humans can continue to support that and bring a light to that so that it continues to grow. Yeah. It's beautiful. And I think when you get to harness, you know, the attention that your job comes with and help make sure you can transmute that toward other folks who need it. It's such a gift that comes with all the other crazy stuff that, you know, we do and

deal with. And yeah, it's always really exciting for me to see the things that people are so passionate about. Yeah, I know, I know. And I do it in a quieter way, I think, maybe than some people would wish. But I just feel like I want to be, you know, I want to just do the work and be authentic to, to the, to the activism, um, still being, you know, myself, which is somebody who is just a loving and, you know, joyful person, you know, who I've got out in the world as well, you know, somebody who's appreciative, appreciative of, of, um, the place that I'm, you know, privilege to be in as well. I think that's great.

And now a word from our sponsors. When you sit and you think about, you know, continuing this show you love, being in this place in your life that you love and, you know, what comes next, what feels like your work in progress now? Um, I mean, I'm constantly, um, trying to do this, do a, a, a spiritual work, you know, I'm, I, I like my, my parents, we weren't, we weren't religious per se, but we were very, and, you know, my parents were always, um, you know, my parents had a commune at one point, you know, we were very, like, trying to find an alternative way of thinking. Yeah, I love that. been interested in mindfulness practice, Buddhism, you know, meditation. And it took me a long time to get to a place where I had like a daily practice because

I'm a hummingbird. I'm really hard to like settle. I feel that. And so that's my work is that I'm constantly trying to ground down into mindfulness and and finding compassion and empathy for myself and for and that's sort of my daily um i just started a what i'm calling a grad a grad a text thread with my closest some of my day ones my rider dies um girlfriends and you know we're just every day we grab a text and it's just all you got to do is just three things just three things right you're

grateful for and it really does open up a conversation and open up a way of looking at your life and looking at the world and trying to be aware of constantly aware of you know not everybody has the privileges that I have and you know figuring out a way to harness that empathy and compassion for the good. that's beautiful because you're you know you're talking about the things out there and the things in here and I think it's special to try to hold all that space it's special work it's necessary I think especially for where we are in the world right now which is kind of divided and yeah well I so appreciate it I mean I'm I'm so inspired by you as an artist and it's a real treat to get to sit and

just be inspired by you as a human. We all love the show. Thank you for all that hard work and all those crazy hours. You really, you bring us all a lot of joy. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for that. Thanks for such a lot. Beautiful nurturing conversation. Oh, thank you. Thank you for joining us. It means a lot. This is an IHeart podcast.