Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Carson Daly

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Carson Daly has been a defining voice in pop culture for more than three decades, but despite his warmth, humor and openness in front of the camera, behind the scenes, he's struggled with potentially career-crushing anxiety.Carson opens up about his first panic attack which took place in his TRL dressing room and how he went from thinking he was “broken” to becoming a leading voice for mental health. Find out how he's turned his self-awareness into a superpower and uses his mental health toolkit to help others, even on live TV.Learn more about the Project Healthy Minds World Mental Health Day Festival at https://www.projecthealthyminds.com/.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress. This week, we have a guest that I admire so much, who I also have some major blast from the past, overlap energy with and a future upcoming project with too. Today we are joined by Carson Daly.

You know him as a defining voice in American media for more than three decades now. Where I first encountered him was on MTV's Total Request Live. I will never forget what it felt like to go with One Tree Hill to TRL for the first time and look through those windows in Times Square and be like, are all these people here to see us? What? He went on to be the late night host of Last Call with Carson Daily, and today he is the longtime host and producer of the Emmy-winning hit series The Voice, but beyond all of his incredible media success, Carson is compassionate. He has such an easy rapport with artists and guests and people he meets out in the street because he is such an open human being and a kind man. He's chosen to offer his platform. to really bold and honest conversations about mental health, first sharing his experience with generalized anxiety disorder

and severe panic attacks, and emerging as a leading advocate for destigmatizing mental illness, which by the way, we should call mental health care, mental fitness perhaps. That commitment of his is reflected in his work with Project Healthy Minds, where he serves on the board of directors,

and he hosts the nonprofit's annual World Mental Health Day Gala, which is a landmark event that blends storytelling, performance, and philanthropy to access care. And this year, I will be joining Carson and other advocates that he has gathered for World Mental Health Day, 2025, and I can't wait. Beyond his incredibly impressive public and philanthropic career, he and his wife are raising four children, and he grounds himself in major dadhood and makes sure that he talks to his kids about their mental fitness and health care, too. I can't wait to dive in with Carson Daly. Hey, how are you? How are you?

Oh, good. It's so nice to see you. I just love that we get to do this today, you know, ahead of your big event. And also the fact that we're talking about the future and we share such a particular blast from the past young career history together like for me

coming out of college a year early and starting work on One Tree Hill I don't think it hit me that the show was this kind of major deal until we came to TRL. Yeah. And I remember looking through the windows and being like are all these people here for us?

Yeah, yeah. And it was so surreal. So you you and the whole early part of your career also have such a special place in my heart for my own oh that's that's so special to hear thank you and it's and it's mutual

you know watching you know Hillary and you know and just you know even just the success of those shows at that time I don't know there was an immediate sort of linkage to the audiences between what we were doing at MTV and then what was happening on

the networks in the same demographic and to see the same you know we were all sort of playing to a similar audience and we felt very like all the boats rise in the harbor and so that was a special time for everybody i think you know yeah yeah it was really cool well it's it's interesting to think about the past because uh i don't share that kind of history with everyone who comes on the show but i do like to ask people about their young life and i'm especially curious about this for you because of the work you're doing in the mental health space. And because of the leadership that you've, you know, you've chosen to kind of take on for audiences, I think it's like, it's just such a cool thing for a human to do when

you've got so much on your plate already. But I always wonder if folks I sit across from like yourself, you know, who are doing amazing things in the world, if they got to go back and hang out with their young selves, you know, like if you got to walk on to whatever playground you frequented when you were nine or ten years old and hang out with kid Carson, yeah. Do you feel like you would see things in that child that really show you a throughline to the man you are today? You know, I do now.

It's a great question, and it's recently I've been doing a lot more reflecting, even going back to my childhood, which of course is a very strong therapeutic thing to do. Yeah. You know, my quick answer when I think of myself, if I could, you know, go into that playground at nine is I know now how I was feeling then. You know, I lost my dad when I was six and was too young, I think, for it to resonate. And my mom quickly, pretty quickly remarried my stepdad. So I had another man in my life by the time I was 10 who ended up being just this incredible influence. I always say that God bless me with two wonderful fathers.

but as I have discovered my own sort of mental health history later in life like Monday morning quarterback looking back on everything I realized that a lot of the sort of looking for like where this like nervous this anxiety that I have now I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder yeah and I and I find myself trying to trace it like well where is it because I lost my dad is it is it nature is it nurture and of course we know now it's kind of a combination of all those things. And so I've discovered a lot about my childhood only sort of recently, which is interesting, but I was always a really nervous kid.

And to answer the question, I would go to that kid on the playground and give him a big hug and tell him it's going to be okay. You're going to be okay. You're going to develop an incredibly beautiful sense of faith with God. You're going to have a beautiful family one day. You're going to experience lots of love. You're going to go through heartache, but you're going to have, you know, the assets and tools to eventually get on the other side of it,

it's going to be okay. Because I found myself when I was young really kind of asking that question. And even through my young, even through like my time at MTV, there was so much anxiety that I hadn't dealt with yet that at the end of the day, I think I was asking myself, am I going to be okay? I'm not sure I am because I don't know what's going on up here. Yeah. Gosh, that's really powerful.

You know, the healing that comes with learning. and understanding how, to your point, this sort of combo platter shapes you as a person, I think there's such a relief when you start to understand why you feel a certain way or what your diagnosis is. And it's really amazing, you know, so many of the things you said I want to dive into,

but I'm so touched by the way you just talked about your dad and your stepdad because a kid losing his father at five is such a profound tragedy. Yeah. And the way I hear you talking is an acknowledgement of that, but also so much gratitude for what came after. Absolutely, yeah.

Do you find that with that loss and other things in your life that the gratitude practice, figuring out what the silver lining is, even of the worst outcome, enables you to kind of metabolize those things in a different way? Yeah, for sure. And I think it's really about, for me, it's about having perspective. And it could be on something that's, you know, sad, like losing, you know, something very gnarly, like losing a parent and the impact that that has on a young child. Or it could be something almost menial in your day. And a lot of my stuff is sort of faith-based in a weird way because I just feel like it's important to zoom out. And so I'm always like this. Well, things could be worse. I mean, like, I'm not the only one that lost a parent. I'm not the only one that lost this job.

I'm not the only one. There's so much suffering going on in the world. I mean, people's dispositions as our fellow humans, there's so much pain and strife out there that, sure, I can metabolize this given the compare and contrast. But I think it's important for me to do that, especially in like our business, where there's, you know,

not a lot of outside self-analization happening. I've always benefited from just being like, wow, man, I'm so lucky. But I had success late in life, too. You know, I was broke in my 20s. I valet parked. I had multiple jobs. You know, I didn't have money for my parents. I was like a rock and roll alternative DJ living in all over California.

And then I got to MTV. And like, so I kind of had this, this cavalier carefree attitude. I was like, I don't, this is all, this is just all gravy to me. You know, I've been, I've been 23 and, you know, lived on $17,000 a year. and found happiness with friends and family and life. So as my life has gone on and I've been really lucky to do a lot of cool stuff, I've tried to not lose sight of what's really important in life. And I do think going back to that, dealing with anything, tragedy or otherwise,

it really helps to just keep in mind the reality of what so many people are going through, not just here in this country, but sort of all over the world. It's pretty easy to find gratitude if you can expand like that. Totally. You know, it's really interesting you talk about it as a spiritual practice. because I think there's the obvious tie to whatever spirituality a person identifies with. I've had some people ask me why I'm so passionate about service work. And to me, I really have learned that community organizing is also a spiritual practice for me.

Sure, sure. I have my traditional version of it, and then I've come to learn that, like, the way I understand, you know, gratitude for being on this earth, the way I keep things in perspective, like you said, when I zoom out, is to remember that, like, being on this planet as a human is literally a community activity. Yeah. And we live better in community regardless, like you said, regardless of sort of where you fall on any scale, you know, fiscal, geographical, whatever, healthy community can really be the lifeblood of a person. For sure. And so it's it's really cool to hear you talk about the way you

always try to remember yourself in community, like almost in comparison. And I don't mean the you know, the comparison is the Thief of Joy comparison. I mean like just remembering to consider other people, remembering to be grateful for everything happening in your life, the good and the bad. That's that's really special. But I think I really like what you're saying. And I, and I, I'm envious of it. And it's something I've thought about recently doing more of, you know, it's one thing to just have the thought of like, well, yeah, my life's not so bad. So many people have it worse and then kind of move on with your day.

It's really a much richer, deeper next step to do the hard work and to get into community and to, I think the best thing you can do is service. I'm in such admiration of people who are in service to others in any form, you know, as simple as just taking time out of your day to help somebody. to, you know, the Catholic Pope that, like, was washing the feet the minute he became Pope of the poor or in any denomination. There's so many examples of acts of service, and we see it all over the place, simple volunteering. And that stuff that I really want to do more of because it makes me feel so good. It gives me a real sense of, like, to your point about not just giving back because it's a catchphrase,

but like I'm now really participating in my important role in this community on this planet. And again, to scale, it can be whatever somebody can offer, like, whatever you can do. No one's judging that. But it's, it's, I admire that. It's better than sitting on the sidelines. And that's not to, you know, to despair somebody who isn't in a volunteer program. But I know that I would sleep better at night and feel better about myself to be a part of that wheel. that is in service to others.

Yeah. Well, but I think, you know, even knowing that I'll see you soon at World Mental Health Day, it's like, what an amazing way to take what you've both been given and earned and offer it out. You know, you just said, like, your 20s were tough.

And I think sometimes, you know, people in these public life positions, you're not, you know, you're not public until you're doing decent, well so nobody really knows your struggle and it's like even even for you to talk fondly about you know bopping around trying to be a DJ figure it all out yeah I mean what a what a wild journey were you just were you that passionate about music did it feel like a calling like when it was so hard what kind of kept you on it the music yeah okay the music I just had it like it was

just the life blood of my soul always has been. I actually think it's tied to sort of the the sort of visceral nature that I experienced. Like when I have a panic attack, I've always talked about having panic disorder and sort of the physiological things that occur when you're having a panic attack. And those are things that you can talk about and learn about and deal with. There's tools for that. And they're all there. But there's another side of that. I mean, I think I was hardwired this way. And a lot of that side, the visceral reactions, the heartbeat, the level of cortisol and excitement as it raises quickly, almost as fight or flight, there's a beautiful sort of superpower side to that that I experience, that I love. And I remember that at a very young age,

and it was, and music was what drew that. Music, like, literally, like, moved me. And lots of different types of music, too. And so as I got older, I was like, oh, man, like, I just want to be around music. And I didn't really play it, but I loved it so much. I love the way it made me feel. I love the way that I could play it and other people would react, being a DJ. And so, yeah, I thought as I was trying to drop out of college and trying to figure out, my parents were like, well, if you're not in college, you're on your own. It's like, okay. And I've got roommates and I'm negotiating, you know, rent and all these things that young people do and debt. Yeah. I always had this voice. It was just like, stay close to the music. Like, just stay close

to the music because happiness, happiness, I didn't, I wasn't brought up thinking like, oh, you gotta like go get a job and get like a big fat salary and like get a house and, you know, be wealthy. And like that, those are the stepping stones to the totality of happiness in life. I never subscribed to that. I was never taught that.

In my mind, it was just like, stay close to the music, man. Like, wake up every day and sort of love what you do and you're already going to be winning. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. Do you remember the first record you bought? I remember I had a, I don't remember the record. I bought, so I have a sister, I'm 51 now.

I have a sister three years older, Quinn, and we're very close. Closer now than we were in Santa Monica in California, where we grew up in high school. We were a little different, but she had albums and I remember her. She had Rick Springfield working class dog. She had a Talking Heads album that I used to listen to. She had London Calling by the Clash, which became a big, big album for me. And then I had some tapes. I was really into Michael Jackson.

And I don't know it was weird. Like my mom is from North Carolina. She's from the South. And she was an actress. And so I don't know what her background was. She's an Army brat, but her musical taste was sort of all over the place. And then it became Army. It was like, if I think James Taylor,

to James Brown. Like, we had a lot of soul and funk, but then a lot of singer-songwriter, 70s, Fleetwood Mac, and all that kind of stuff. And I had just, the Eagles, I mean, I grew up with all of that. And so obviously great stuff and stuff that I still love today. But, yeah, there's a lot of music played in my house, and yeah, just great memories of it.

Oh, it's so fun. Yeah, you're taking me back. It's like my, all the Motown I listened to with my mom, my dad was a big Eagles fan. Yeah. I remember driving around L.A. with certain songs on. Me too.

You know, like the temptations blaring or Hotel California and the summer. It's so cool. It's really amazing how music can take you back in a way. And that era, you know, when you helmed TRL, even when our show came out, like the music was such a big deal. And the new video would drop or we'd get a crazy sync.

I mean, my God, I remember we got off of her very first album, We got an Adele song on our show. Oh, my gosh. And we all were like, who is she? Right. This person. Oh, my God. Right, yeah.

And it just, I don't know, it was such a cool era. When do you feel like you realized TRL was really a cultural phenomenon? Like, did you know from the minute you booked it, it was a career breakthrough? Or was it more when you saw what the show was becoming that you went, oh, holy shit, I think I'm going to be really part of music history now? Yeah, it was really more the latter. I mean, when I got to MTV, you know, they had just bought that big studio in Times Square. It's funny, when I got there, I was the radio, I was the nighttime disc jockey at a station in Los Angeles called the World Famous K-Rock, which is like, you know, the country's most influential alternative rock station. And it was for a young DJ, that was like the dream job.

And so I had that job and I was like 23. I worked six to 10 at night in my hometown. And that was like, you could have killed me right then and there. You know, like I was in my habit. To this day, one of my greatest job. of all time, love K-Rock. But when I got to MTV, they were going through, there was an article in the LA Times

I think the year I got there at 97 or 8, and they were like, what happened to the M and MTV? They were really, they were starting to do a lot of scripted stuff and the network was changing. And so we bought this, today's show like, ironically enough space and Times Square

and I got there and they brought in DJs with musical backgrounds. Prior to my term, a lot of the VJs that I grew up watching were really people that would go to LA and try and parlay whatever cable success they can get to into, you know, acting. And so they kept like losing. The turnaround was not good for a lot of the VJs. So the management decided they would go to like radio and find like more ambassadors of music,

more people that were. And so they found me at Krock and like, you know, you seem to know all these bands. You want to come and just do basically music on television. we have this new studio and I said absolutely and I went and so it was like this playground of like here we have New York City has this incredible backdrop we have this new studio that they want to do

a live premiere one or two hour show their flagship show out of you know like a like a Today show or like a sports center like this is going to be at the epicenter of the network VMAs fashion media loud all the programming is going to sort of run through this show it'll be a place

for music videos and so me and like to other people just kind of sat down and really formatted total request live, which at the end of the day was just this video countdown show, but it would be the hub for all of these things

that would come through 15, 15 Broadway. So to answer your question, like, we built it because we loved it and we were all so young at MTV. I mean, the executive producer of The Voice, the singing show that I host now in NBC, Audrey Morrissey,

like, she and I go back to MTV. There's so many directors and people working in our business that, like, were young. And, like, we're given all this responsibility and money, not personally, but, like, to build out these shows. You know, it's, like, go to Canton for spring break. And we were all, like, in our 20s producing cable television.

It was pretty wild. So just through doing that, like, if you build a day, they will come sort of method. Yeah, one day I was a kid with a sign. Yeah, I skip school. I'm from Jersey. The next day, it's like, I'm from Connecticut. I'm from L.A. And then it's just, like, cross the street.

I'm from Puerto Rico. And it was like, you know, M&M. And then hip hop sort of exploded in New York around that time. So a lot of things were happening. And TRL, that little show just sort of found itself at the epicenter of it. Yeah. It also was exciting. I mean, to watch and then wildly to be on eventually with you guys.

Because it felt really spontaneous. It was. Not like created spontaneity, you know, not like you see on reality. reality shows where they're like, well, you're all going to go to dinner and get in a fight about this, but we'll see what you say. You know, like, it felt genuinely unpredictable. It was. It was because we didn't know what we were doing.

It was just like live. It was live as live gets. Live, everyone was super unfiltered. To your point, everyone was young. And I respect the, and I miss a little bit that lack of polish. Like social media has made everyone so anxious about looking good, saying the right thing, not saying the wrong thing. everybody's like a little weird now and you guys it just felt right it felt fun at the time

were you a little nervous about it or because people weren't so used to um click bait backlash whatever fills in the blank did you also feel a little freer it's all we knew at the time I mean you know granted culturally things are quite different but it was also had a very well-natured thing about it. This is diversity in its finest. I mean, this is what it's, like, really reserved for. And I always took as sort of host of the show really more about hosting that space in the real world

when multiple genres and these worlds were coming together, you know, hip-hop fans and, you know, little teeny bopper, you know, Mandy Moore, 11-year-old girl, you know, I felt like the big brother of the show, like it was my job. It felt like the quad at lunch at Samo, where I went to high school where there would be like, you know, all sorts of walks of life, you know. Totally. And I'd be like, hey, come here, man.

Have you met this guy? Like, I was always that guy, like, almost like DJang. Like, I would play, you know, public enemy. And then I would always use, like, a Beastie Boys record to bridge me to get back into rock because it was, you know, like fusion. Like, I feel like that's kind of who I am at my core, just as a person, you know, on or off camera. So it's kind of the perfect job for me. And I took it sort of serious to make sure that inside that space of TRL, yeah, things did get a little dangerous.

Like, we thought it would be a good idea to have Mark Wahlberg and Eminem when they first met, like have an exchange, you know, like a late night show did. When one guest was leaving, another guest was coming because, you know, Mark was a white rapper and who was a very successful actor, and here's M promoting Aten Mile. And they definitely have something in common. Could there be a good TV moment there? And no, there wasn't. There was a very volatile, like, memorable moment that was, you know, pretty much

train crash. Whoopsie. Yeah, but like it's unlike today, to your point about social media, like, it's okay. It was okay. When you talk about bridging genres, bridging groups of guests, and like how you looked at it almost like the quad, you know, you think about that classic scene from Clueless where shares telling Ty, like who all the clicks are. Yes.

But instead of saying like, these people don't associate with each other, you were like, everybody, meet, hang. And I've read, you know, you've called yourself the babysitter for the latchkey kids of America. And I'm just like, that's actually exactly how it felt. Like you were the cool senior, everyone could trust in high school. And also you like took care of us all of our parents were at home and we were watching TV. There was a little bit of that. And I didn't, I never wanted to like, it's weird now because I sort of, I've said before,

I think I got caught up in the vapor trail of the success. of the show and the Backstreet Boys and Kid Rock and whoever else, Brittany, that was never my intention. You know, like, I executive produced that show. I was in meetings, like, changing the graphics and, like, trying to figure out how to, like,

Disney was stealing our numbers. Like, I was, my brain was somewhere else. I had been, like, you know, in the music department at K Rock, like, trying to break, like, crazy alt rock band. So it was important to me that, like, people got along and felt, safe and had a good time because that's just who I am.

So, you know, American Bandstand was a show for my mom for the boomer generation. It was the first time they could come home from school and see their peers on television. Like, you couldn't see other teenagers. Like, oh, what are they wearing? Like, oh, those bell bottoms are like, oh, look at how they're dancing. Look at out. We see it now, TikTok. Like, everybody sees too much, probably.

But that was a special time. And I think TRL, my era there captured a little bit of that. And I get that from when I see people to this day that are. just like, oh, I grew up with you or like, you were like my babysitter or whatever. And I'm like, I take that like very pridefully. Like, I'm honored of that. And I'm glad that that quad was, um, was a communal, uh, inclusive place where we had fun and, um, and are all better for it. Totally.

And then I think that, you know, there's so many incredible aspects to it, right? The fact that you were, as you said, executive producing the show really, introducing generations of young people to great music, really giving artists a platform. I mean, there was nothing else like it. And I think sometimes when everything looks so great, people don't know how hard it is. They don't know about the hours. They don't know about the pressure. And as you've opened up about your mental health journey, you've actually talked about how your first panic attack was in your TRL dressing room. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, we've touched on some milestones, like a loss of your dad when you were five and this, you know, struggling to make it in music journey that you had and then TRL happens and everything looks great.

Like you're by all means crushing it for anybody looking at you. And then you experience this major scary thing where, you know, your body doesn't feel like your own. Looking back on that, do you think those things are tied together? Do you feel like you really understand what triggered it? Like, how did you process it then and how do you feel about it now, I guess, is my... I had no idea what was happening. Yeah, I had no idea. I really had no idea what it was a physiological feeling of like losing my mind and, you know, this immense moment in time.

Like, can hear the crowd getting ready for T.R. all like very specific stuff I remember there was an old commercial with like a woman in a bathtub and like I don't know if you remember this or you might be too young but she's in a bathtub and like the kids are a bubble bath and like the kids are crying

and the delivery guys and the kettles like all these like stimuli things are happening and she starts spinning and it's like Calgon take me away she's you know it's like a pro lotion or something and I always thought about that commercial because in my first panic attack that's what it felt like

It felt like uncontrollably in my mind, all these things are happening. And I've experienced what we know now to be derealization and this incredible sense of fight or fight. Now, this is all years before I've gone to therapy and sort of learned that the model of anxiety is an actual real thing. So at the time, you experience panic disorder or panic attack for most of us. You go to the hospital and you do the EKG, you have everything. And then ultimately, the doctor comes to the room and goes, you're fine. And in my case, my doctor, Dr. Greenie, who's still a buddy of mine, he got me out of the table in the gown office. He's like, come sit in my office.

And he's like, how's your life? Like, everything okay? Like, you might be burning it both ends at empty. Like, what's going on? And that was the beginning of sort of understanding that I need to make some lifestyle changes. I have a whole lot to learn. And I have a lot to discover about myself. And then that's really where your journey is.

Yeah. From the moment you experience, let's say, in my case, that panic attack at TRL, that was my first big, red flag mental health symptom from the time you have somebody has a symptom of a mental health issue to when they actually go and get help the time that elapses in this country is 12 years i mean 12 years sophia that's that's crazy like if you know if you fell on the playground or fell at work and you know hurt your right how how quickly would you be in urgent care to see if you have a broken and you'd be there within the hour you know like yeah so we don't look at mental health the same way we look at physical health

these days, and that's a big part of our push to help break that stigma to normalize it. Because I was somebody who lived for over a decade with this feeling like I was broken. Like there was my brain, I thought like I really thought I had problems. And then on top of that,

I'm of the age where we didn't talk about mental health when I was growing up. And my only frame of reference was one floor of the cuckoo's nest, the movie. Like the stray jackets and lobotomies and like taking pills that make you like, you know, numb, like, there was a real black and white thing. Like, I was like, if this is happening, I'm feeling these ways I'm feeling, I have no idea

what it is, and something's really wrong. I don't even know how to articulate it to somebody. I'm a communicate to a person. I could have gone to my mom, but I didn't even know how to explain it at the time. Right. That's why sharing these stories has really become such a powerful tool because it wasn't until I read a story that Kevin loved, the basketball play. wrote about having a panic attack during an NBA game.

I was like, oh, my God, that's exactly what happened to me during a T.R. Like a high profile, high stress event. Same thing. And he articulated it so well. And I was like, yeah, me too. Like, that was me too. And I feel like, you know, the more I've told my stories that that's the response I get, especially in the last, you know, however long it's been almost 10 years now.

Like in the airport, it's like Fight Club. Like, I've been on TV every day since 1997 in some capacity. doing something stupid with videos or whatever, you know, my job, like, so dumb. Lucky to do it, like, whatever it is. On in the middle of the night, on the late night show, introducing you to a band, whatever it is. But like more people now, it's like Fight Club in the airport. So I'm in LAX or JFK, everywhere I am, people are like, hey man, thanks for talking about that mental health.

Like the mental health thing is the thing. And it really makes me realize how many people are suffering in silence. And I don't want them to see, like, oh, if you can see that loser, on TV that you've seen for 20 years on TV that you thought had a perfect life if you can learn like realize that like it's a struggle for him still every day and like he's got things to work

through and they're no different than working out in this gym you know your body it takes work and if someone else can if I become that like hey if that loser can do it I can do it then that's why like having conversations like this is so it almost goes back to what you were saying about service

and community like it feels like I'm so happy to answer anybody's questions that they might have for me about dealing with mental health in service to them. I don't know if it'll be useful information, but I'm so willing to share, even at the risk of somebody thinking, you know, I'm an asshole or crazy or whatever label they want to give me. I don't really care. And now a word from our sponsors. We exist in a world where anything you say, someone's going to criticize you for, but you keep going because of the people like the folks

who've come up to you at airports. You keep talking because you don't want people to feel alone. And it's like whether it's mental health, whether it's a relationship struggle, you know, obviously it happens to men as well. But I think especially for women, the importance of speaking up about, you know, harassment or assault, it, it changes the shame other people feel. Yeah. Because suddenly they don't feel alone. Great point. And, you know, you said that when this first started, you thought that you were broken. Yeah. Yeah. To learn that you aren't changes everything. When did you, when did you get different

language for that? Like, what did you learn about mental health or anxiety or panic disorder or maybe, maybe all of it that helped you understand that it's a an experience, a condition beyond your control, that it's not your fault, that nothing's, nothing's, quote, wrong with you. Like, when did you start to get that? Probably the best day of my life getting that, that affirmation and information. And that was when I was diagnosed. God, I wish I, his name will come to me. But the first doctor I saw was in L.A. He was a former director of psychology at UCLA and has a, has like an OG really smart guy and in learning about him later has lots of great early connections to cognitive behavioral therapy and as I sort of research where I needed to go to

speak to talk about all this CBT to me personally it's all personal stuff you know some people yeah so this is just what worked for me um I kind of wanted to cap it I was like let's let me to talk to somebody for 12 weeks and like, let's see how this goes. And so when I went and first sat down with the doctor and I think I filled out like a questionnaire and then it was just like, okay, yeah, no, you have GAD. So let's come in and we'll talk about that and then it looks like you have some panic disorder. He said it's so mildly. I'm like, wait, what's GAD?

Like, this is a thing. Like, it's like, I have, oh, like it just came back. Your blood, your labs came back and you have, okay, yeah, you tested positive for COVID and and you've got, oh, you've got some pneumonia. like it was like that sort of language to me like now all those nights of feeling broken it's like oh what's what's g-a-d that's the thing like yeah like being like it's and then through the process of learning about the model of anxiety going back in history and and learning about animals and learning about fight or flight and learning about all of these things you learned that and i learned that i which i never knew it was i wish i had that it is possible for your brain to play tricks on your body that's a thing That's a thing. Yes.

Your brain can tell your body there's an imminent threat to you. Yep. In the same exact way, and you will experience that physically in the same way as if it really was. If there was a bear right here and I'm hiking in Malibu and like there's a bear, that same physical reaction, it's as real. So that was a big language breakthrough therapeutic moment for me, not only learning about anxiety, but also. realizing that when I started to feel these physical reactions, I could get to the place where I knew, like, oh, that's not true. It's not true.

Yeah. And that's a really big discovery that you're like, wow, the brain's pretty freaking powerful. Wow. And then I loved it. And then I sort of, you know, at least I love all my therapy. And it didn't, like, it wasn't a quick fix-all. I didn't, I still had to fight through, you know, I've talked to. about like when I wake up every day, even now, I feel like I have a cookie sheet filled with water

and I have to like walk gently to not slosh the water over. That's kind of my GAD baseline. And then as like more information comes in my day and oh, you've got to do this and you've got to host this and you got to fly here. And I start to get a little like, am I going to be okay? And it starts to get a little more wobbly. And now when the water starts to slosh over the cookie sheet, that's kind of the panic setting in. And that's that model for me for years could have led me to sort of a gorophobia. I mean, I was headed in a direction because what we do is we shut off. Our worlds get smaller.

You know, I would have panic attacks. I had one in Aspen, Colorado. I was like, hmm, that's a trigger. I better not go to altitude. I'm not going to altitude. Oh, I had one in this restaurant. Not going there. Long car ride.

So I can't, I'm going to be stuck. I would be able to get out. Like, I can't do that. You'll start canceling plans. It starts to shrink your life. It starts to shrink your life. And I swore this is happening simultaneously with, you know, making a commitment to therapy and really learning about this

and trying to help. myself and develop tools. I made a promise to myself that I would not let this thing shrink my life. And I'm so glad I made that commitment. Yeah. Do you feel extra passionate about that? I mean, obviously you deserve not to have your life shrunken just for you. Sure. But you were talking earlier about your family. And, you know, to have a big family, to be a dad to four kids, I would imagine there's also kind of a like a mission in fatherhood where you say, I've got to make sure I don't model fear of my own mind for my children. Totally.

I've got to make sure I model healthy communication, having a toolkit, going to therapy, like things that will raise healthy people who maybe won't have to deal with as much as our generation as, you know, like how do you think that? Do you talk to them about anxiety yet? Absolutely. I talked to them about my, yeah, my 16-year-old for the last three years has come to our project Healthy Minds. big gala that we do in New York City.

I mean, I have three girls. I have girls 5, 11, and 13. I'm a big communicator. I mean, I, every time there with me, much to my wife's chagrin of rolling her eyes, because it's like, oh, God, here's another, like, teachable moment, you know. I'm like, your mom graduated from Wisconsin.

She's smart. She's got the degree. I dropped out of college. You come to her for homework, and you come to me for the University of Life. I'll teach you how to, you know, I taught my 13-year-old girl, she was going to like a Sabrina Carpenter concert. I'm like, you know how to do when you get out of the garden.

You got to go get a hot cup of coffee. You don't need to have to drink it, but just hold on to it because that can be a weapon. If you see somebody sketchy and there's a problem, going, oh, that's really smart. Dad, how do you know that? I'm like, University of Life. You know, they don't teach you that in college. You're like, we used to be in these streets in New York. Yeah, exactly.

You used to be in this. And so, yeah, like any moment that I can make it a teachable moment. And I do. I'm so lucky that in New York, which is just like my favorite city is my backdrop for that because there's so much diversity and there's so much to point to and so much culture and so much about that I try and teach my kids about life

and like so again like I find myself saying you know don't be like me you know I have a I probably am not as worldly traveled as I might have been because I'm a bit of a home body because I still don't like it makes me nervous you know

but I don't want them to be like that so I'm like open your wings fly go see experience travels the best educator meet people love people talk to people there's nothing better than that and um i think i talk about it more passionately because i didn't really have anybody talking to me like that because again it's generational my dad was like get a fucking job you loser like oh yeah like yeah you're gonna go to like you know you're going to go to the redding festival and watch a bunch of bands like do how much that plane ticket is there

where are you going to stay how are you going to eat like i can hear my dad in my head and and like you know i try and be more encouraging to my kids of like Yeah, man, go do it. But also get a goddamn, get a job. I say that, too. Yeah. Well, you have to kind of do both. Like you said, it's really, that balance is so important, right?

I mean, balance to me is just like, I don't have my new rooms for, much room love for tattoos, but it's always been one I wanted to get was balance because it keeps coming back to me in so many ways. But it's such a beautiful thing to find that in whatever duality, might be talking about that harmonious point is usually in the middle right it's we're missing it now culturally politically but that delta that there's that sweet spot in the middle that that where we find balance and we've gotten to the um or the fulcrum if you think of you know two kids on a teeter totter and we're just teeter tottering so much now but it's that fulcrum like that's where the love is and um i don't know that's a it's a good place to be yeah it's beautiful also i just i love

the word choice because fulcrum's such a good one and I'm like see look at us college dropouts still on top of it oh you're darn right nail in the SAT terms okay that's right what was that on the SAT no because I didn't take it I don't know I feel like it probably would have been um you know you mentioned that you involved the kids in project healthy minds and and we were talking about how we're going to see each other soon at world mental health day yeah can you tell our friends at home about the project how you got involved you know what are the What are the goals of the festival? Like, give us a little bit of info.

Yeah, totally. So, you know, when I made a conscious, there was a moment on the Today Show where I sort of was outed with my story about my anxiety and they did a piece on me, which is weird when you are, you know, work for a news organization and you usually report on entertainment stories and news stories. You don't ever really want to be the subject. But in this case, I was, I'm like the Al Bundy of the Today Show. Like anything with mental health or bad backs, I have a back surgery.

Like any, like, dad problem, like, dad bod, can't lose the weight in the middle part. Like, that's my, that's my sweet. That's my jam on the today show. I cover that, right? And so mental health became, right around the pandemic, I had made a conscious decision that I wanted to really get some skin in the game. And so I met this guy, Phil Schumer, who went to Michigan. It was a go-getter, worked, he was like the youngest intern for the Economic Council.

in the White House in the Obama administration. He had like, worked at Black Rock for seven years. And like, I meet this guy. And he's just like, got his shit together. And he was with Logic, who's a rapper and a buddy of mine. And Logic did a song, 1-800, which was the National Suicide Hotline. And he did it on the VMAs. And we found out that the, when he did that song, that the National Call Center experienced a 50% spike in calls.

Not like a week later on the heels of Logic doing that song, but during the VMAs. 50% people were calling like there was and so Phil and logic were partnering on this new nonprofit that was going to be around breaking the stigma of mental health a millennial driven nonprofit New York it was a startup their goals were simple they were like why isn't there an Expedia for mental health like why isn't there a door dash why is it so hard to find access to care this should be a tech thing we have to build an algorithm that like it should just be like an app like you know if you need to go talk to somebody and it should be really smart and culturally relevant and all the things and so I was like you guys are speaking

you know music to my ears and I end up getting involved and I'm like whatever you want so it was nice to put all my philanthropic give back eggs in one place and the people of project healthy of minds are great and so this is the third year of our world mental health day and festival and gala, and it's just this, you know, 24, 48 hours of all really cool stuff and breakout sessions and meetings and, you know, stuff that you can read about. And then I host the gala at night. And, you know, we give awards away. And it's just been really, like, rewarding to do the work in this space and to share my story.

You know, the suicide part of this has been something that's really reared its ugly head to me personally in the last, I don't know, year and a half, because if you look at the spectrum, of mental health issues, and it really is that, there's a lot out there. But to learn and to see how many people are dying by suicide and what little we know about it, and in my research and working with the National Suicide Foundations, that's a, that's, that really, I feel like, requires some attention now. It's just really scary. And so, yeah, like we, um, We kind of dive into all of it and now have this great app at PHM that people can go and get access to help.

There's still a lot of work to do. It's like it's a moment, but we need this to be like, you know, a big movement. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. To your point, you know, stigma has to change. It's so weird to me that we live in. a culture that's so obsessed with physical fitness, but we don't, we don't respect mental fitness. I agree. And in a way we denigrate it, I actually learned, you know, on my own journey and looking through modalities and trying to build out my mental fitness toolkit, I landed on,

you know, the right therapist for me who happens to be a CBT expert. And so there's CBT and DBT, and I'm like, I'm a research nerd. Yeah. You know, I finally understand that all the the things that made me super weird as a kid and that made me really attracted to community service even because it's about other people. It lets me do something, but it can be about everyone else. You know, I like, I understand now that that's my like cute little neurospicy brain being like, oh, I want to read the white paper. Like I want to read the American Medical Journal report on. And like, not everybody wants to do that, but I do. Yeah. You know, you do that. And it's like for me, you know, learning about not only my stuff, but how it's,

it fits into the larger ecosystem of mental health, what goes on with people, how they're treated or not. Not only do we need to change the access, we need to change the way we think about these things. For me, I actually think the top of the pyramid of the kind of person I want to be around, the kind of person I want to work with, the kind of person I want to be in a relationship with is someone who takes care of their mental health. Yeah. Not someone who pretends it's not a thing they need to pay attention to you know. And that feels like it needs a cultural shift. I agree and I think that reminds me of Dak Prescott who has been very vocal

about losing his brother to suicide the quarterback for the Cowboys and I remember when that happened there was a sports reporter or two that treated it like a ding like because he was showing so much emotion and they were making point of how going to be America's quarterback and showless you know and be so you know like he was crying in an interview

about this tremendous tremendous lawsuit he had had and I remember just thinking like this is everything that's wrong like not just in sport but like in the world like if i if i were jerry jones or if i was the owner of a national football and my quarterback you know my sort of what we deem now is like this gladiator on sunday who's impenetrable to me that's a leadership skill that he that he emoted and that he was honest and he was vulnerable and that he is currently dealing with his mental health these are the people that you want to be around that's who you actually want to lead your team not the guy who puts on the straight face and does what we've been doing for hundreds of years

and just, you know, pushing it down deep inside and, you know, and just ignoring it. Yeah, and then winds up beating someone or doing something insane. It's going to transfer somewhere. Yeah. So, yeah, that's a part of the work that we're doing as far as breaking the stigma is just, yeah, those. And that's really where the work needs to still go. I mean, it also bothers me in, you know, black and brown communities and in rural communities. I mean, first of all, the stigma is even greater for, for, for, for, for, for,

for a lot of those folks and their access to care is harder than others. So, you know, it's like, I don't know. Yeah. As much as we want to feel like we're making some progress, there's still a lot of work to be done in a lot of areas where people, you know, really, really need it. Yeah. But I think that's a really important thing.

And I think therapy teaches you that, right? To be able to hold the duality of things to say we're doing all this work, and this is our goal list and this year this is what we're up to and we haven't done enough in these arenas and we're going to look at that too and I think that's amazing. You know, it strikes me

I've talked about your career and family and all the wonderful work you guys are doing with Project Healthy Minds and then it makes me think about that first panic attack you had and you were mentioning hosting the voice. Do you think that having been through that in a voice of your own with TRI?

does that shift the way you work as a host because you know the kind of pressure not only you can feel but that your contestants are under like does it does it shift your relationship with the contestants on the show and how you make sure they're being cared for well i now i know um i know the symptoms and i know panic and anxiety when i see it especially in young people because having lived it for so long so i've interviewed a lot of pop stars actually and I, and I've seen it, I've seen it come on, like, when they just are sweating all of a sudden. I mean, I can just see it. And so that sort of dual citizenship, if you will, does buy, I'm very aware of it. And now I, now it's just like, hey, let, you know, I'll go to a commercial break and, you know, and just like, you know, take a walk. Like, I know it's going, you know, like, just trying, or with the artist on the voice. Now, I still have, I still get nervous. I mean, you know, being on in front of millions of people is never an easy thing.

It's like, you know, if you get on a plane and you're not a little bit nervous to fly, if something's wrong with you, you know, it's like it's not a normal thing. No, you never get used to knowing what's on the other side of the camera, to be clear. Like for anyone listening, you never stop feeling nervous about it. I'll also never sure it's going to come out of my mouth. I speak like very freely in the real world. Like, I swear a lot. I'm stream of conscious.

I'm a radio DJ so I can edit pretty quick. But, and I love live TV for that. it's exciting and it's a chance to communicate in a different manner. And I think you can show a lot more authenticity just by talking without having to read a telepromp or whatever, but I do that also. But yeah, to your point, I think I'm hyper

aware of other people's feelings in general and it's really a great thing to have to be able to sense that somebody else might be struggling and to be able to, you know, offer them a couple of tools or just put an arm around them, someone who just say, I know what you're going through, give him a hug or like say,

hey, let's just do some breathing really fast. You know, you can calm your nervous system down pretty quick these days just by, you know, breathing. I feel a lot of people forget to breathe. Yeah, I have to remind myself all the time. Yeah, it's wild. It's a wild ride. Yeah. On a pure entertainment level, just because I also am a really big fan of the voice, you're kicking off season 28, which sounds nuts and thrilling.

Can you give us just like a little tea on what we can expect? God, it's so much fun. I can't believe the show's been on as long as it's been on and it's just still doing well. There's so many talented people in the country and they have these great stories of wanting to pursue their dreams and it's never too late and it's just always inspiring to be around

but yeah, season 28's great. We know we have Snoop Dogg has been such an interesting addition to our show because we're a singing show but he's just been great. He's been really emotional. I think he's actually brought a lot to the voice. So I would point to season 28 really just to watch snoop dog he really is a wonderful part of the program now i'm glad

to hear that now yeah for you and this could be about work or you know cause work or your personal life what do you feel like is your work in progress these days my work in progress is i'll say two things you know finding balance you know my life is just so i don't have a nine to five you know i just traveled from LA to New York nine straight weeks commuting for a job and now that has stopped and so my life will be different. So it's never the same. I wake up and I don't know if I'm at the Universal Hilton or if I'm in my home on Long Island. I'm tired at odd times because I've lived this by coastal lifestyle just in the last like three months. But that'll end and I'm not going to complain about it because I can't. And so there's just a lot of internal dialogue that I have about

finding that fulcrum, you know, finding balance for myself, I'm getting, you know, I structure's good for me. I need that. I'm excited now that I'll be here for a minute in New York and I'll be able to, you know, I get up at four in the morning for the Today Show every day. So I got to put my, I read books to my five-year-old and we go to bed at like eight o'clock. And I'm looking forward to getting back into, like, a routine is important. You know, I'll be in my health center and I'll, you know, get back to working out and cold plunge and do all my things and meditating. And I love to go to my church here and the community there. And so, you know, my work in progress is really just like this, this holy trinity

of physical, spiritual, mental, you know, balance. Like, how are these three things in my life as they orbit around me? How am I making sure that they're all being, you know, taken care of? You know, as part of my pray when I wake up every day, I always say, like, I want to be the best husband I can be today. I want to be just a 1% better. I want to be a better father. I want to be a better global citizen.

I want to be a better Christian, in my case. I want to be a better coworker. So give, you know, thank you, God, for this new day. I got 24 hours. Let's just keep it simple. Let's not look too far ahead. And let me be the best version of myself for your will. Not to benefit selfishly for anything.

I'm not looking for anything. I'm going to wear this black t-shirt again tomorrow. But whatever happens in my day, whatever comes across my desk, my phone, let me be a vessel for good for the world and let the answers that come out of my mouth be beneficial to others. Those are the things that are always like works in progress for me in like just 24-hour compartments. Yeah, that's beautiful. That's weird, but yeah. No, I think it's wonderful. It's just true, you know. Yeah, I'm so grateful that, you know, I've gotten to share some really meaningful moments in life with you, and I can't wait for World Mental Health Day.

Yeah. I'll see you there. That's so sweet. We'll make sure our friends at home listening to this hang have all the resources to follow along, you know, online and on social as well. Why don't you just be a psychiatrist at this point? Because you're very good at it. Thank you.

You can charge a lot for this, you know. I know. My therapist isn't cheap, but he's worth every penny I pay him. Yeah, exactly. You know that. You could charge that for your guests. So it was a really fun conversation. And I really appreciate it.

Your willingness to go there and offer the platform for people to have these sorts of dialogues are so important. So thank you. I appreciate you too. And I do really mean it. I think it's so incredibly impactful when somebody who's got like a great career, they could just keep to themselves and keep to their families says, like, let me use this audience for good. So thank you for that. Don't buy the Instagram bullshit. Not everybody's that happy in that picture.

Life doesn't look like that. So don't buy into that. Yeah. There's real conversations to be had out there and listening to people is so important. So you're the best. Thank you. Thank you, my dear. I'll see you soon.

All right. Bye. This is an I-Heart podcast.