Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Chelsea Handler

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Since she was a little kid she's given off big baller energy, by the age of ten she was in business running a successful spiked lemonade stand (true story!), and not much has changed since. Chelsea Handler is still hustling, hilarious, and unapologetically herself!  Fresh off her success hosting the Critics Choice Awards, the comedian and best-selling author joins Sophia to talk about prepping for a milestone birthday — turning the big 5-0 — and her gift to us: a brand new book that will bring laughter into our lives when we need it most! Chelsea also reflects on choosing to end her relationship with fellow comedian Jo Koy while love was still present, why she thinks women need retraining, and the keys to her confidence, all while keeping the jokes coming throughout!Chelsea's book, 'I'll Have What She's Having' hits bookshelves on her birthday, February 25, 2025.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, friends. I am so amped about today's guest. She is one of my favorite comedians, authors, philosophers on life. And she happens to be here today to talk about her seventh book, I'll Have What She's Having. Today's guest is Chelsea Hamler.

Chelsea has always been surprisingly vulnerable and incredibly outrageous. And in this book, she is capturing the antic-filled, exhilarating, and joyful life that she's led and that she's built. It's definitely a life that makes me think, yeah, I'll have what she's having. from talking about family loss, grief, relationships, and childhood, she is really sharing how she's discovered across this landscape, how to spend time with herself, how to meditate, how to be open to love, and how to end a relationship with dignity. She is a sister to so many of us and to so many of the women who rely on her.

And I can't wait to talk about the new book, Turning 50, and her. her palpable sense of joy. Hi, guys. Hi, cutty fatuity. I'm just up here icing my shoulder. What happened? A mess. I'm just a mess.

Did you have a ski fall? What's going on? No, no, I'm too good of a skier for something like that. I had an infection in my shoulder and I had it to get surgery. And now I have a pick line in my arm where I get an infusion of antibiotics every 24 hours for fucking four weeks. No. Yeah, girl, yeah, it's serious business over here.

Serious disease, infectious business. Well, are they also giving you stem cells? Why does your skin look like this? What's going on? You look gorgeous. I mean, you always look gorgeous, but like you're extra glowy. Probably because I spend about two hours a day in a hyperbaric chamber. Okay, so that's what I need to start doing.

Chamber glow, girl. Great. It's almost your birthday. I know. I'm going to be the big one. I can't wait. I want to do coast to coast. I'm ready.

Oh, my God. Let's go. I'm ready. We're going to bring your raging, dancing, cheering section. I can't wait. I know. I'm going to celebrate this year. I'm just going to celebrate.

all year long. I mean, especially with the backup we're living in, you know, we've just got to look up and look up and look for the bright, the rainbows in the sky. You have to. And, you know, I started to realize it's like I get so much creativity and joy and thoughtfulness from our community, from friends, from cooking for people, from gathering people. And I realized recently I was like, oh, I'm going to have to start not just being a sort of signal booster of the news, like online. I think I actually have to start. I don't even know how to do this. I'm like, I'm not an influencer.

I think I need to bring, like, just some purely joyful, dumb shit to Instagram just to help counterbalance the fire hose of nightmarishness that we're all on the receiving end of. It's pretty astounding what we're meant to, you know, deal with. and the amount of information coming at us. But, yeah, we got to focus on doubling down on love and being there for the people that really need us the most. And even for the people who don't, you know, people you know and people you don't know, but just show up in a different way, extra, extra kind, extra love.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like we can rage against the machine and then we need to be very teddy bearish with each other. Yeah, absolutely. You know about teddy bear. Who me? Just a little. I want to bring some people some joy and laughter today, and you know, because you've been

on the pod before, I love to talk to people about, you know, do you see versions of who you are in your childhood self? You've answered that question for me already. So what I would like is for you to take us back to a childhood story. But it was one, I've had the good fortune of seeing you tall a few times on stage, and it is a highlight in the book for me, as a reader anyway as well. When you talk about how you realized that you wanted to make money, so lemonade stand seemed obvious. And then you had a really, I would say revolutionarily entrepreneurial idea for a 10-year-old. Can you tell the folks at home what you realized? I started a lemonade stand when I realized my parents had no financial plan for themselves, never mind me. And I was already

kind of disgruntled when I was born and seeing that there were so many. other children in my family. There were five other brothers and sisters. And I'm like, this is expensive. Like, how can these people even afford this? And then I was like, oh, my God, this is my family. I can't believe I'm stuck with these people. So as early as I could, I was just trying constantly thinking of like schemes and ways to make money or how I could employ myself as an underage entrepreneur. So I don't lemonade stand like many people do. You know, lemonade business, obviously that's like, you know, low hanging fruit. And then I just was like, this isn't a lot of money, you know, like, I think we made like $13 or $14 in one day.

And then I was like, you know what we should do is just amp this up. There's an opportunity for a bigger profit of margin if we made it a hard lemonade stand. Then I got some gin, whiskey, and tequila, obviously from my parents' house. And I listed another 10-year-old who lived on ours, who was renting in the neighborhood that we were in. And I think his name was Nelson, yeah. And I called, I knocked on doors. I'd be like, hi, my name is Chelsea Handler.

I'm an entrepreneur. I'm looking for another, you know, 10 year old, 8 to 10 year old to be in business with me. I'd like to partner with someone. And brought Nelson out. I started grooming Nelson right away. I brought him to our lemonade stand. I'm like, do you know how to make like a whiskey soda? Like you need to figure this out because we're going to have lots of customers.

And we made a killing. We made so much money because the parents started drinking. I said you can't serve anyone alcohol that's under 10. You know, obviously I have some standards. But we made a killing. And I remember after the first week, like, Word had spread like wildfire. Like everyone was coming to our lemonade stand on Martha's Vineyard. And obviously now I know it's because we were the only hard lemonade stand.

And they, and we made like $359, I think, was the number that we made in our first week. $3.59. And then I gave Nelson his commission, which was $3.59. And he was floored. He was like, thank you. He's like, wow. I feel like I'm like, you have, Nelson. Stick with me. Stick with me and I'll show you the way. Incredible. Incredible. I would imagine that half the people who rolled up were really excited to get sassed by a 10-year-old at the same time they were getting a cocktail.

Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of, you know, piss and vinegar that I was spewing from a very young age. Even as a very young child, even when I was two and three years old, I felt like a woman. Like I felt like a woman. Like I felt like a woman. woman. Like I wanted to be, I wanted a briefcase. I wanted a suit. I wanted heels and I wanted a business. Like I just wanted to own a business. And I remember being so frustrated being a child. I just wanted to grow up. Like I just hated the idea of being so dependent and on my parents and being so together to them. And, and I just could not wait. I knew that I knew better. You know what I mean? Of course. If I were the one in charge of finances, we would be fine. So, like, I just wanted to start that as quickly as possible.

I love it. I feel like our little kid selves would have been friends. I did the same thing. Like, by the time I was eight, I looked at my parents and I was like, I love you both. You're fucking lunatics. I got to make other plans. Like, I just, I don't know. I think there's something about some little girls that come into the world like grown-ups.

And I'm glad that so many of us have found each other. Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that. And I think that there are so many like-minded, so many more like-minded people, you know. That's what L.A. and New York and places like where we live are, you know, a melting pot of so many different types of people. But, yeah, I take a lot of pride. and it makes me very happy, I guess less prideful,

more happy to be connecting with like, like for instance, so many other women who don't want to be mothers or don't want to be women who really don't even see that as like part of their future. It's like so refreshing to hear so many people talking about that. You know, I love that.

It's like when you speak up about something and all of a sudden you start to hear other people that feel the same way about something, it's quite encouraging, you know, to realize, the non-alowness of your opinion. Yes. Well, and especially because I think for women,

there's been this sort of prescriptive, this is what your joy will look like list. And, I mean, I know for me even, it's almost two years ago now, like, finally being like, I don't, I think I have to say this out loud. Like, I did the list and I'm so unhappy. And then the number of women I knew from every walk of life that were like, oh, me too.

Oh, me too, me too. Did you hear so-and-so's going through this? You should call her. Let me put you on a text with my friend who's also, and boom, like, you have such a huge community. And sometimes I think the, the barrier to entry is just that you haven't said what you need or what you're afraid of or what you're experiencing out loud. And the minute you do, it's like all the, all the barriers evaporate. yeah yeah it's absolutely it's there's always another person or another group of people that are going through whatever you're going through and that's something that women can't hear enough because people feel so alone you know when they feel like oh they're not worthy or they're not doing this right or it's like we all feel that way even the most confident people in the world feel that way so it's nice to remind each other that there is a you know there's always a community for anything even if stuck on toes there's a community for that too. Listen, we don't kinkshame here. No, no kinkshaming. Speaking of, it's the most perfect segue

for the title of your book because as soon as I saw you were going to call it, I'll have what she's having. I thought, yes, she is. And it's going to come out on your 50th birthday. And it really feels like a love letter to yourself and to so many women. I mean, I feel it as a member of your community, I'm sure so many readers who don't know you personally, but have followed you for so long, we'll feel that. Is it also a little bit of like a birthday present to yourself, this one? Well, it's becoming that way. You know, I didn't think on it, publishing it on my birthday, but when we were going over dates and my birthday was one of those dates, I thought, okay, I could have like two minds about this. I could be like, no, I'm not going to let, I'm not going to work

on my birthday or I'm not going to let my birthday be overshadowed by because it's such a big birthday, like be overshadowed by work. And then I was like, no, but this is so me. Work and my life are always kind of intertwined. They're always mixed. It's not like I'm a private person or I'm precious about my personal life. I've never been that way. I'm always kind of feeding it up. So it is kind of turned into a birthday present for myself because it's my seventh book. I am really in the mode of really injecting optimist. into other women and confidence who are always asking me about my confidence. And it's like, I don't know where my confidence comes from. All I know is that it can be infectious. And like,

when I'm around confident people, I feel even more confident. And when I'm around people who are not confident, I want to inject them with like this. I want the substance for confidence for girls, you know, like I want everyone to know, like you can, it's kind of a practice. And to actually really it's just so much more optimistic to be confident and not to be arrogant that's a separate thing but confidence is really just knowing who you are and not being apologetic for it and knowing that you're a good person i think so many times in our lives we question whether or not we're good people just because we're having negative thoughts about a situation or about another person or repetitive or, you know, and I feel like that kind of, I know for me, I'm always like,

oh, God, am I a bad person for thinking that? It's like, no, you're not a bad. You're only a bad person if you act on those feelings. Of course we have emotions that run across the human spectrum, jealousy, of envy, of disdain and love and all of everything that comes in between. But it's good to embrace those feelings, understand. them acknowledge them and then like you know move forward because and and i think the thing that's lacking so you know the most in our world is confidence yeah and i think because we've just been

targeted to like almost have have that taken from us yeah well in this weird way we've conflated confidence and conceit and it's like yeah don't be a conceited asshole but you deserve to be confident. You deserve to be proud of yourself. Do you need to walk through the world with pridefulness being used as like a as a club to hit other people with? No, but you deserve to be proud of yourself. And I think I think this idea of how, oh, we have to renounce anything that, that, you know, could possibly be seen as egotistical. It really just feels like a really insidious way to strip women of their confidence, of their willingness to celebrate themselves, to keep them, you know, small or afraid. And it's like, we don't need, we don't need to be wasting any more time doing

any of that. Yeah, no, I agree. Like, that's out the window, okay? We need to be building blocks, building back better is what we need to. Yes, building bitches back better. Building bitches back better. I like that. And now for our sponsors. I love that you've been so frank, and you said you're not precious about your personal life, but you know, it's a weird thing to be a person in the public eye and to have, when you try to keep things private for yourself, they kind of can often get eaten up. When you share things, people are like, no one was asking. It's like, no matter what you do, somebody's going to tell you you you to do it wrong, which might just be, again, being women. But you seem to have found this

really cool flow in your life where you're really willing to tell it like it is. You're willing to kind of pull the lid off the lessons, you know, admit the hard stuff, talk about what's great, and you really are doing it, as you said a few minutes ago, with this incredible, I don't even want to call it energy. It's like the whole thing is really fueled on this positivity that you've found and I'm inspired by that point-blank period. And then there's the other layer of you're also doing this entering 50 when so many women are essentially, you know, whisper-warned that they're going to become irrelevant.

And it's like you're hotter, funner, more relevant than ever. Do you love the way this whole phase feels because you're booking every tradition in the book or does it also just feel sort of silly that people ask you questions like this in the first place because what the fuck are these traditions and where did they come from? I mean, I will say that I feel very,

and I talk about this in the book, I feel very happy that I had enough belief in myself that I did not listen to other people steering me in the wrong direction. Like many times in my life, life where I got advice or was told not to do something. Don't do that. Don't do this. Don't do that. And I'm not very good at, you know, taking direction and listening to other people, especially when they're men, obviously telling me what to do. It's like you're not in a position to tell me

what to do. And it's kind of been my vibe the whole way, you know, throughout my life. When I started my career, it wasn't like, oh, it wasn't the conversations we're having now and understand and, you know, the impact of white male supremacy that it has on, you know, all of us and the kind of trickle-down effect and how. No way. I was kind of blinded. I had blinders on. I was just like, I'm going after what I want. It doesn't matter if I'm a man, woman, child, whatever. I'm doing this. And I was just so, like, intent and focused on what I was doing and having a good time and having like this party of a TV show and I wanted to have all my friends on and that's what I did. And I didn't really notice, you know, a lot of the things that we're talking about now

that are so front and center. Right. So they started happening until the conversation started flowing. Like I remember my friends would be like, you know, once you hit 40, you're never going to work again. And this was like 20 years ago. I'm like, that's a terrible attitude. And they're like, well, it's not an attitude. It's a reality. I'm like, it doesn't have to be your reality. That's just that can be a reality or you can just decide you're not going to you know that's not going to be the way that you're going to operate so i always kind of had that kind of attitude but that is pretty naive because just because something doesn't happen to you or impact you directly you have to be conscientious and conscious of the fact that it is happening to millions of women in the world all the time

every single day in all mediums of business and and entertainment and whatever you do in the world that's male dominated, everything is, except for women's soccer, you know. So I think, like, I think that I'm very, I'm grateful that I didn't allow myself to be pushed around and that I didn't allow myself to, like, even when I bought my house in Majorca, I remember, and I put this in the book because, like, my business manager was a guy, my manager was a guy. There were, like, three other men in my life were like, that's a terrible business decision.

That's way too much money. Don't do that. the Spanish economy is terrible. And I remember hearing their advice one after another after another. And after the sixth one, I'm like, I've never been more convinced to do something than I am to buy the class in Spain. Like your negative attitudes have convinced me that I definitely must do it. And once again, it turned into a huge, huge positive life decision. That book has given so many people great times, great vacations.

I've provided so many people with, like, vacations of a lifetime at that house. I've written two books in that house. The Spanish economy went through the roof the year after I bought it. So I just always go back to that when I'm like, I'm not an indecisive person, but whenever I am on the fence about something, I know now, think, like, sit with yourself, be quiet and understand, like, what is the answer right now? Really, what is the truth? What is, because only, only each of us know what is right for each of us. It's nobody else who can give you that information. So the closer you get to a dialogue with yourself and an understanding and the knowing that all women are talking about, the better, like, the better your life is going to be.

Yeah. I like that. Sit with yourself. Be quiet and really listen. because we don't, that's not a lot of advice that we get. It's always, well, what will this mean for your career? And how do you think it'll impact that? And what's the bottom line going to be? And there's always a question about how you're supposed to couch your decision. And this moment to sit and not gatekeep that the way to really figure it out is to figure out what you want, what your answer is,

not necessarily what's popular, not what, not whatever they've put on the list that's supposed to make you happy when you check all the boxes. It's you. Like, listen to yourself. And you talk about it in the book in a way that really hit home for me because I had to ask myself a series of the same questions. When you talk about your, the relationship that you had with Joe Corey, and how you did it differently in terms, even of how the public was let in. And again, there's that like, do you let people in so they know what it is or do you keep them out and then they just gossip about what it is? I don't fucking know.

But it was a difference for you. And I've been so touched by how beautifully and gently you've talked about how it was wonderful and successful, even though it wasn't the forever thing. everyone thinks it's supposed to be. And you talked about how you had to listen to yourself and know, oh, what this person wants is not compatible with what I want. And so I have to choose me. Because the other option is you shrink yourself or you compartmentalize yourself or you abandon yourself, right? Like that's the energy that I've gotten from the kindness with which you speak about that and the frankness that you manage to speak with at the same time. Yes. I think that,

you know, if you're not like growing and changing, right, what are we doing? We're just becoming we're the same. Like, I don't want to go through the same relationship I was in 10 years ago. I want everything to be like one and done. Like, I don't need to learn a lesson twice. I would prefer to learn once and be done. Make the first time the last time. And I don't think about relationships like that but I am so much more mature than I was when I was in my 20s or when I was in my 30s and I'm not like to me a romantic partner a lover all of those things are wonderful things to have in your life they're wonderful and they should be additions not subtractions to your life and I can't imagine myself at this stage in my life ever being upset at an

ending. Like just to, I've been through too many things to not know that it's okay for things to end. It doesn't mean that anything failed. It means that you're healthy enough to have your own back. And that is kind of the way that I go about things now. Like that was a, you know, I didn't want to break up with Joe Coy. I was in love with him when I broke up with him. We were in love, but it was very clear to me. He had a very different idea of what that meant than from what I, then what I meant and I'm everyone knows how I feel about everything so there's causes and there shouldn't have been to him either because I am an open book and I'm not going when I make decisions a lot of the times I think about if this is something that I would put up with for my nieces or my

you know or the women in my life like is this something yes as a standard to whether or not I should be dealing with it and at that point in our relationship it just became clear we are not on the same page. He expected a lot more for me than I was willing to give in any relationship. And I didn't choose myself. And I chose myself knowing, okay, bring this, bring it on. Bring on the fucking pain because this is going to be so painful. You're leaving someone you love and, but also knowing I'm going to be okay.

Like it's, you know, we go through so many breakups in our lives, wondering if we are or separations or breakups, even with friends, wondering if we're going to survive. If we're going to be, the answer is yes. Yes. Okay. And to know that before you make the decision and while you're making the decision is such a strength that why do we keep ending up where we started? Like there's so many times where a breakup, I'm like, no, no, you're holding on so tightly. Like I don't want this.

I don't want this to end. It's like, I didn't want that to end, but I knew it had to. So I had to end it. And but with also with a ton of gratitude about. the experience in it of itself a ton of gratitude about him opening my heart to even be in a position to be spreading love and Instagram and talking about how much we love each other like I love doing that I thought that was fun I'm like I can't believe I haven't been doing this my whole life no and people who are for us you know people would run up to us on the streets of New York

or in L.A. Oh my God if you found love anyone can find love I'm like yeah let's go everyone totally and so it was very warm like warm-hearted the response from the public and i had never experienced that kind of like support and i was like this is fun so it brought out all these wonderful things that i didn't even know about and i instead of being upset or mad at him for not understanding me and not getting it i just kept reminding myself of all of the good things that came from that relationship you know in it in a big way he really reminded me of who i am and who I've always been, and I had kind of lost track of that. I kind of gotten off of, you know, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, M.O.

in life, which is just to, like, just to be a hustler and to be a lover and to, like, really just have this big, loud, brave life. That's always wanted when I think back to me as a child. I was just like, I just can't wait to get going, like, to get it going. And now here I am, and I'm 50, and it's going. And I've, I got it going. And I have five years or 30 years now in this industry. I would say 25 very successful years in this industry where the scientific, like the data

shows me, okay, you're capable, you're smart, you know how to get the life you want. Now you have it. And now what are you going to do with the next 20, 30 years? Yes. I don't want to say 50 years because, of course, I don't want to live to 100. But I just read this thing that if you can get, if you live through the next 10 to 15 years, there will be enough, like, scientific innovation to get you to live to like 120. And I'm like, who the fuck wants to live to 100?

I don't want that. No, I can't afford that. Nobody can. Nobody can. I just want to live to, like, a nice old age that feels happy for me, but be healthy. Like, I don't need to live to 120, but if you told me I could get to 80s. healthy and never have to deal with cancer, I'd be like, whatever that is, sign me up for that. Yeah, that's right.

No cancer would be a nice bonus. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too. I love the whole perspective that you just shared, because I remember years ago I got to write this article talking about you know the pressure women are underdefined love and to me it's always bothered me that people treat a breakup like it's some kind of a failure like like you said like an ending is a bad thing because even if you are one of the people who wants the you know you want the paper list you want the who's my person who's my happily ever after okay well every relationship theoretically before that person has ended so you're going to tell me.

me most of your life, if it's been endings until, you know, this positive thing you've asked for is a failure? Like, no. Lessons. It's like books that you've read and lessons that you've learned. You know, I think every, like you were saying earlier, every time you share a piece of your life with a person, a romantic relationship, a friend, if you evolve out of that, that just means you're growing. And there's no way you're going to grow on the same path with everybody. But what a gift to be in any kind of relationship for any length of time that has encouraged your growth. Absolutely. And also growing is saying goodbye sometimes, is letting go.

Like if not everybody is meant to be in your life forever. Like we have to stop being on to each other. Like some people are just supporting characters. Some people, some people, you're a part of their story. You know, it's not about you. It's about them maybe. Yeah. And not to be so like just to accept the reality.

of the situation, accept something if it's not working, it's okay, then it's time to move on. There's, how many, like, what, 300 million people in this country alone? I mean, there are other people out there to serve your needs and your purposes, and I'm not just talking about romantic, I'm talking about family, and it's okay to take breaks, and it's okay to, like, to look at people as, like, a temporary thing. Like not every, there's not, we, I don't know why we attach such permanence to things because nothing is permanent. So I don't know that idea in the first place. And I think sometimes the pressure of the permanence that we ascribe to something can actually trap us there. Like,

I know that that is true for me in the last couple years of my life. I, you know, I've said this. I did everything I was supposed to do and I did everything right and I checked every box on the list. and then the train had kind of left the station and looking back because like hindsight's 2020 right like in the moment you're just dealing with your life and trying to hear that inner voice but when I look back I can see these moments where if I'm really honest and it breaks my heart a little bit I abandoned myself I knew what I needed I knew I deserved better I knew the answer had to be different but plans were made and promises were made and I thought they had to be kept, and I thought if I can just work harder, if I can just maybe shrink myself a little bit, if I could be more amenable too. And all I was doing was continuing to cut myself down. And by the time I realized I couldn't move without feeling like I was cracking eggshells. They weren't just on the floor. They were all around me in my life. I was like, how the fuck did this happen? Like, how did I get here? And sometimes I think that

the pressure that it all puts on us, it gets so loud that we can't hear that voice. We can't hear you can't hear your inner self say you love this person, but you got to go. And I think it is so fucking crucial that we talk about it and that we start giving not only ourselves permission, but like you said earlier, by talking about it, other people feel permission to talk about it too. Absolutely. And honesty, you know what I mean? To be really honest with each other as women is also integral to like to being a dutiful woman to other women. Like, you know, some of us play things off like, oh, it's okay or they don't want you don't want to share, you know, or you don't want to overshare. You don't want to burden other people. And so then you're kind

of, you're kind of begetting this like lie because being truthful about your own situation. So how is that supposed to shed any light on another woman's situation or another friend's situation? You're not even really telling the truth because you're too ashamed to actually sit down with your thoughts and go, am I happy? It's like, how do I feel? Who, like, you have to get to a place where disappointing other people is not your problem. And for some of women have the biggest issue with that. We are so allergic to the idea of anyone being inconvenienced on our behalf. It would have been calling off your wedding, even though I'm sure before your wedding you had those

feelings, some of those feelings, you going through with it was because you didn't want to inconvenience all the people that were going to be there, right? And that's what we do as women. We are trained to make sure that our feelings come last. And I need a retraining program because our feelings should come first. Absolutely. Because it's the same as the adage, you know, when the oxygen mask come down, you have to put yours on first if you're going to help the person next to you get theirs on. Absolutely. And by putting myself, you know, I talk about therapy in the book and I talked about it a lot in my last book and we've spoken about it at length. Like therapy teaches you. It's so I, the irony of therapy is so funny because

I went to therapy with the intention of like getting out of my own ass. I'm like, I need to get out of my ass. Like I'm so far up my own ass. I need a break. And the very act of going to therapy is actually talking about yourself at infinitum for months, years on end. So the act of getting out of your own ass requires you to really crawl up inside your own ass. Yes. Catch 22 because you're like, wait a second, I was trying to get away for myself, but here I am again. But once you do put in that work and once you do actually go to therapy, which is hard and brave and tough, feeling a lot of the time, because nobody wants to go in and unearth all of this stuff.

But when you do, what you come out with is just a much less apologetic person. Like, no, all of this is not my problem. I'm my biggest problem. And if I can get myself on straight, then I'll be able to do so many great things for so many people in my life. But if I'm not being truthful, then I'm like a limp biscuit. How can I help anything? Yes, absolutely.

And I think one of the things that I've learned in that space that's so important, like, you can't heal it. You can't get past yourself if you don't really go in and, you know, pull all the threads and see what you're made of. And for me, the aha moment when I was like, how the fuck did I get here? I was like, I had one rule for myself. It was, I am never going to have a life like X, fill in the blank. I'm also learning, like you said in your book. I'm like, there's things I'll keep to myself because I don't need to hurt other people. But I had a very clear directive for myself for 20 plus years.

I will just never have a life like X. And then I woke up and was like, how did I get here? And I went, oh, I said I'm never going to be wounded, like fill in the blank. And what I didn't do was actually go and clean out and suture those wounds. So all I've been fucking doing is finding the claws that fit my wounds. I said, I'm not going to do that, and I wasn't even paying attention to how easily they just slid into those already open spaces. And I was like, damn, I made a rule, but I didn't do the deeper layer of self-work and introspection. I didn't go to the center of the thing that

hurt me. So I got hurt in the same fucking way. Whoa. And that for me was just so revelatory and it was almost like in that moment when it when the whole illusion of it came crashing down and like you know the the hologram if you will was gone and I was just like standing in the dirt and then I realized how many people around me were also in the dirt like holy shit not only did I have people to talk to but it was like finally the moment where the universe was like are you done trying to do that would you like to see what might actually be good for you and I was like like, oh, fuck, the only way, the only way to the other side of it is to go back to the beginning and walk through it. Yeah, yeah, right. And also, like, that's what you're talking about.

You know, it's like a circular, you're having a circular conversation, you're repeating patterns, you're doing things over and over how you got here when you know so much more and you know better. So, yeah, I don't know. I think I heard Maria Shriver say at first, the first, make the first time the last time. Oh, I love that. Like disciplining children, like when they make a mistake or do something really, you know, unacceptable. She's like, you make sure that they know that that's not allowed to happen again.

You make the first time and the last time. But I think it's applicable to everything in life. Yeah. I want to make sure, I don't want to go to summer school. I want to go to Mallorca. So I don't get my lessons in. I got it. Okay, I got that loud and clear.

I don't need that for a life or yes, be open-minded. people can reappear, blah, blah, blah, but I don't want to learn lessons twice. No, absolutely not. And you know what? It even goes down. I started doing this thing that a friend's mom told me, like, I don't know, maybe two years ago. I was talking about how I have this tendency to make piles. And I've, like, learned, you know, that women with ADHD do this.

And my friend's mom goes, oh, I can undo that for you. And I was like, I'm 40. What are you going to undo for me? And she goes, every time you pick something up, you just have to say, I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to touch this twice. And I was like, say it again. And now it's like if I pick up the thing, I'm like, well, what I'm not going to do is put it down

somewhere and then have to fucking pick it up again. That's a waste of my very valuable time. And it is like changed the way I live in my own house. So make the first time the last time and don't touch it twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. You know, from your emotions to your things, it's like it's so good. And I think it changes the way you move. And you talk about something.

else in the book that I love, which my brain relates to changing the way you move, because you said that eventually you ran out of the fuel of anger and the drive it gave you, like the kind of, I don't know if you want to call it, you know, the shocking aspect of comedy or the teasing bit of it or the judgmental commentary, however you want to define it. but that really struck me that you were like, oh, I can't, I can't run my motor on that type of fuel forever. It feels so healthy, but I also understand that some artists get really scared when they feel like they've run out of something. Like, I know actors who've gotten terrified when they get sober because they're like, I'm not going to be a good actor anymore. It's like newsflash, you'll be a better actor.

Yeah, newsflash. It's like fat people, fat comics who lose weight. They're like, we're not going to be funny anymore. You're like, no, your brain is the funny thing. Yes, yes. But I wonder for you, was there a moment in realizing you'd kind of run out of this initial supply that you talk in the book about how you ran your first show on it and all these things? Were you ever afraid that you weren't going to be able to do what you do off of a more joyful fuel tank or no?

Yeah, I never wanted to be this person that I am. Like I would never have thought in my 20s or 30s, I'm going to go to therapy. I'm going to meditate. I'm going to have a gratitude journal. Like all of that was like, fuck off. Like, I don't want to hear about, you know, I don't want to hear about chakras. I don't want to hear about magnetism, field work. Like, no. You're like law of attraction. Yeah, right. Exactly. Law of attraction. Like that all sounded so, ooh, woo, wah, LA, dumb, dumb. I'm from New Jersey. I'm fast. I'm, you know, like, I'm not like that. And eventually, you know, you realize I, by educating yourself that these things that I just

mentioned, all of them are a great, great things to have in your toolbox as an adult person. And while I no longer fueled by anger, you know, it was a very confusing time when you go to therapy and you kind of learn all this stuff about yourself and then you have to, then you have to absorb everything you learn and then you have to apply everything you learn. So it's like a process. And I didn't want to stay in therapy for like, you know, I went for two years and then I was like, okay, there's got to be an end date to this. I don't want to be somebody who's codependent with my therapist. I don't want to be every week.

I'll come when there's, you know, I have a therapy appointment today this afternoon. But I do therapy like incrementally now. Like when I have an issue, I'll start my therapist for a couple times and then I won't see her for a couple of months or a year, you know? I have the baseline to understand how to handle my own problems. But at the time, when I first delved into therapy in that big, giant way, it was like you're kind of auditioning different versions of yourself. You're like, well, if I'm not born anymore, I have to take the good qualities of the old me and implement the new qualities of me that I know are going to be less harmful and hurtful

to others. I want to protect other people. I want to protect myself. And you're just kind of like boggling together this kind of new persona or personality of your own. And I remember finding myself like, myself auditioning different versions of this personality like okay I'm going to go to this dinner party and I'm not going to talk I'm not going to be the center of attention I'm just going to be

a guest and I'm not my opinion is not that important like just sit back relax and enjoy the show and that felt weird I'm like this isn't me either like there were so many times where I'm like who am I like I want the best versions of me combined with all of the things that I've picked up and then eventually it does click and you realize anger is not my fuel you know my fuel is it doesn't have to be that yes I can get angry with the best of them but I don't wake up angry even with this like shoulder injury that I have like it's such a pain in my ass and it's such an inconvenience but I'm also like every night I go to bed I'm like thank you for my shoulder infection thank you I'm sure this is teaching me something I don't know who's being I don't know

if God is in the sky or I'm thinking my mother that's dead. I don't know who I'm thinking, but I'm just saying I'm grateful for everything, the good and the bad. And that's my positioning now about everything. If something doesn't work out, thank you anyway for the experience. And it's not empty gratitude.

It's like I understand now that not everything happens the way that you want it to, not to attach yourself to the outcome of things, but rather go through it with grace and be graceful. You know, be graceful about the achievements, about the disappointments, and be happy and encouraging and understand, like, if I don't feel confident or strong one day, if I'm having these weird, icky feelings to know that that's temporary too. And in those moments, that I will find the confident, strong version of myself probably

tomorrow when I wake up and that it's in there and it's in me and it's not going anywhere. So by not being run on anger, I am a lot more, I have just more expansiveness. Like I can, I'm, I'm more patient, you know, I'm understanding. And, you know, if I need to get angry, yeah, no problem. But my main source of fuel. Yeah. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Yeah.

Did you know, because I always think it's really easy to see it all in hindsight. Did you know at the time were you able to talk about it with that kind of language? Like, oh, I'm trying on new versions of myself. Like, I'm leaning into my listener. I'm going to lean into my graceful, gentle soul, human. And were you talking about that in that really active therapy process, or did it kind of come to you later as you felt like you, you like re-adjusted. In my brain, it's almost like you readjusted the spine of yourself. You know, you clicked everything back into place. Like. Yeah. No, it was definitely after. Like it was like, you know how you go to school during the school year and then you have the summer. And the summer is meant for children to absorb what they've learned during the school year. Right. And that's how therapy was for me. I got all this information. I understood it. It made sense. It was logical and linear. Here. Then I was like, okay, now, now what? Do I just change my personality? Or am I still allowed to be

parts of me? And, you know, and the answer is you don't change your personality. You just change the way that you are in the world. You know, your person there. And it's your behavior that matters. So a lot of like confused. And it was definitely after therapy. It was like socializing. Like I had this new way of like engaging and socializing, which was like just not like in your face and not assertive and not inserting my own opinion into things that didn't involve me. And I was like, well, this isn't that fun either. But I've definitely found a balance. It's like you can be all those things, but actually have a really fun disposition. You know, when I walk into a room, I want to like have a good time.

If I'm going out, I want to have fun and I want other people around me to have fun. So it's more with like that intentionality now. I love that. And how do you feel like you know when to check back in with therapy? Because I know I'm curious about that and I bet there's a bunch of people at home who might be scared to ask someone in their life that question, but who would love to hear you talk about how you know, is there a feeling? Is it an increase in anxiety? Like what is it that makes you go like, all right, it's been a couple of months and I should, I should, I should, check back in. I should go back to the mental gym. Yeah, totally. Great question. I think it's definitely

of anxiety. Like if I'm very equitable with people or everyone like my schedule is too crazy and I'm not handling it with a plum and like, I'm like, okay, something's going on with you. If people are really annoying me, then I know I need to talk to my therapist because I don't want, you know, I've learned to have patience for people who I don't respect. You know what I mean? I have patience for people who I don't find intelligence. Like I can't deal with that now. I can deal with someone I think is stupid and sit across from them and be respectful. And if I'm able to do that, then I'm, I check in. Then I feel like, okay, I'm fraying a little bit. I need a refresh. I need to center myself. And I think the feeling that I feel the most is the way that is best describes it is when I feel

grounded. Like when I feel in my own body knowing that I am the tree, you know, I'm not a leaf. the tree. You can't not because I'm so solid. It doesn't matter what you say or what you do or what you take away from me. I am a tree. And when I don't feel that way is when I check in. Yeah, it's like you can tell that something's just starting to get a little off balance and you want to get it right side up again. Yeah. Like for instance, this shoulder thing, you know, I was like I spend my wistler, my winters in Whistler usually. And I was, I was coming back to L.A. and this kind of thing happened. And it was obviously not planned. I had to have shoulder surgery for this infection. And so because of it, I'm getting like intravenous antibiotics every 24 hours. So I haven't had a drink in, I don't know,

three weeks and I won't have one again for another two weeks. And I'm like, oh, that's a nice break from drinking. I wouldn't have taken five weeks off of drinking, you know, like, oh, well, that was probably somebody to take a little break from drinking, you know, like all of the little side things. It's like, oh, we never, not we never, but as people, it's hard to look at the situation as a whole and find the like little nice silver linings to things because we're, and I could be sitting here just bitching about my arm all day and complaining. And believe me, there have been days where I wanted to do just that.

But now I know in my life, and when I do that, when I'm in that mood, don't leave me. your house. I just in my bed and I'm like, let me just put on some TV or read my book and just don't interact with others. Whereas before, I'd be like, oh, it's okay. I can hide it. And I can be in a good mood. And it's like, no, you can't. You can't hide it in the shitty mood. Everyone knows. Everyone knows. So, yeah, but I, I'm definitely much better at looking at the whole picture rather than page of the book, you know, and being like this. It's like, well, there's another page after that. You know, you talk about that in the book that you really had to come to terms with the power of your vibe. Like if you're in a bad mood, people will feel it.

If you are feeling confident, you said it earlier, you can inject confidence into others. Another thing women are not encouraged to embrace is their power. How do you feel like you got really into the power of your vibe? I mean, I really like myself. And I used to think that was such an. embarrassing thing to say, but I just am going to keep saying it because I want everyone to like themselves. Yeah. Like, I respect myself. You know, I have a standard of, of operation and the way that I operate in the world. And I, I have high standards for my close friends and my, and lovers and

relatives, too. And, you know, and I'm not the most, like, you know, if I have a problem, I say I have a problem. It's not like I can be the other way a lot. I'm very kind of forward. Forward conflict forward facing like if there's a conflict let's like hash it out but i do have a deep respect for myself and i and i i know i've taken the time to learn so much about everyone that it was just the right thing to do to also take that time to learn about yourself like you can't really have judgments about other people when you don't know where you're coming from And once you realize where you are coming from, the judgments kind of diminish and fall because you realize you're your own experience. And to have respect for the way, the respect for the way you've

handled difficult situations, to have respect for your work ethic, to have respect. Like, whatever it is about you, you know, you don't have to be me to respect yourself. You have to be somebody who's willing to look within and look at, look around and look at yourself and go, what are the things I admire about myself? I love the fact that I'm on time. I love the fact that I, that I, if I say something, I'm going to do something. I love the fact that I'll have an honest, difficult conversation with someone that's a friend or not a friend. Like, I love the fact that if there's a room of 20 people and somebody has to land a plane,

I would be like, it probably should be me. I mean, that's a plane. But, you know, like, I like that. I'm so capable. Yeah. These things are okay to say about ourselves. It's okay to talk about what we love about ourselves. It's kind of beautiful.

And it's so easy for you to say to. Ashland, right? It's so easy for you to say, these are the things I love about you and for her to say it back to you. But I don't think we spend enough time telling each other, like telling ourselves, good job. Like, wow, you handled that great today. You handled great. You know, patting yourself on the back. And that should be kind of occurrence for all of us. Yeah. I love it. Is this sort of immensity of joy and the great. greatness of the vibe? Is it what inspired another book? Well, the book would happen when I was in love with Joe and we were dating and it was very public and an editor reached out to me and said,

Chelsea, you have to write about your love story. Like, the women need to hear this that you found love at age I was, 44 or something or 45. I don't know. And, you know, we want to hear about it. Like, it's giving everything to hope and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, sure, I'll write about it. Yeah, I would love to write a book about love. Like who, you know, how funny is that? Yeah. And we broke up. And then I was like, well, let's just forget about the book. And she's like, no, no, no, just sit on it and see if anything else, you know, is spurred from this. And then I was able to watch myself through this breakup and see how dignified I was being and how graceful in an area where I had never been graceful before within breakups, you know, just flash talking and

yelling and screaming and blaming and you fuck you and you know they're going to regret the day all of that nonsense and so it was so nice to actually extricate myself from a relationship never really tell anyone what happened never back him i never once went to his social media and looked to see what he was doing even when people are like he's doing like i just got rid of all of that behavior and that made me so proud. I was like, maybe I should write a book about breaking up. And then when I started thinking about it, I was like, you know what? This is a perfect example of I had this guy in my life. I thought I was going to be with this guy and I was done with men forever. And that was my guy. And now it turns out that's not the guy. It didn't

work out. So instead of being my love story or the story, he's part of the story. He's not the story. You're the story. And he's part of the story. And I thought that's a great way to look at all of the people that come in our lives without resentment and without bitterness and with love, you know. It strikes me that it is a love story. But it's, it really, really is a love story about this ever-evolving version of you. You know, the fact that you got to watch yourself in new behaviors that you could be proud of, that you could say, I'm doing a good job. That's the kind of love story nobody is telling us to have first. And I think it's, I think it should be. Just like you were saying earlier, like women should be taught to prioritize

themselves. I think we should learn how to treat each other like we're our first. We are our first love story. Yeah, totally. I see you out there supporting all the women's sports and I'm just saying, you never know what might be right around the corner for you. Recommend an 11 out of 10. Another straight woman bites the dust and becomes a lesbian. Listen, listen. I can't wait for you. you guys to finally get to properly hang out it's going to be so fun let's go already i mean how many times do you text me and then i never i'm like yeah let's go and then i never hear back from you i don't know what your problem is you're like i'm here let's get together and then i know and you know what i am terrible at is the oh okay so she's here and then i'll be back in 10 days and so then i'll and then in 10 days i'm

like i'm like a i'm like a fucking dog with a chewy in front of my face i've forgotten that we're going to be back in the same city. I actually just started last week working on a thing where when I do that, I immediately put a reminder in my calendar. Good, good. And my poor assistant is like, what are, what are all of these things popping up? And I'm like, oh, no, it's a reminder for me, but also I've added you to the calendar reminder to make sure I've done it because I have the attention span of a nap. Of a mosquito. I'm learning. It's growth. That's right. So we're going to do it. So you're in a joyful moment.

The book is coming out. Big birthday. Like, things are pretty yummy. Yeah, I've got a special coming out on March 24th called The Feeling. You know what that's about. Oh, I know what that's about. Yeah. No, I've got a big gear ahead of me.

I planned it this way because I wanted to like hit it hard when I'm 50. It's kind of a reset. I'm going to do a bunch of stuff I haven't done in a long time, work-wise. personal like what like i want to do some acting i told my agent so i've gotten to some um i've been given some opportunities that i'm like i think i'm going to do this i think okay stuff that i'm not that comfortable with like i've been doing my podcast my books my stand-up for so many years because i love not having a boss and having to report to anyone you know i kind of tell me about it yes of course you know i'm not really good with a lot of direction but i figure i would just flex some you know new muscles

this year. And I wanted, like, I've gotten myself this far, like I said, and I want to see what else I can do while I'm vibrant, you know, while I feel this alive, while I'm feeling positive and happy. And, you know, the darker things get around us and the more odiousness that's out there in the world, the more compelled I feel to just keep drumming up positivity, however we can find it. That feels really amazing. So does that, would you say that now, that that feels like your work in progress to constantly mind the positive? Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I feel that really like so much stuff. We're not even halfway through the year and so many devastating things have happened. And I think showing up for the people that you can show up for is just the most valuable thing you can do. Double down on your love. double-down on your commitment to people and double down on your reliability, you know, just to be consistent with people and to be really compassionate. And it doesn't sound like a strong

fighting tool, but it's an necessary tool to get ready for whatever we need to get ready for. I love that. Yeah, the double-down feels like a good North Star. Yeah. I love it. I'm so excited for this big year for you. Thank you, honey. This is an I-heart podcast.