Drama Queens - Work in Progress: In Case You Missed It: Jane Fonda

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

Legendary actress Jane Fonda found her calling for activism in the 60s and never looked back. At age 86, she continues to pursue change with a contagious enthusiasm and necessary urgency.  The Oscar winner joins Sophia for a conversation that explores her complicated childhood, her relationship with her father, and how she untangled herself from the pressures of Hollywood. A true work in progress, Jane also examines her resilience and where she hopes to improve in what she calls her final act. These days, Fonda is busier than ever fighting climate change and invites listeners to join the Jane Fonda Climate Pac by texting JANE to 40506. For more information on the important work she’s doing, visit JanePac.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, my friends in progress. Today is a very special day on this podcast. someone that I look up to so tremendously who is larger than life and so inspirational is taking time out of her day today to be here with us. Today's guest is Jane Fonda. You guys, Jane Fonda is an icon from her numerous Academy Award nominations and wins, by the way,

to her incredibly acclaimed career as an actor, a film and television producer. She, even revolutionized the fitness industry. I mean, hello, Jane Fonda's workout in 1982? You guys, this woman has done it all as a performer and as a leader, and most impressively, to me, as an incredible activist. Jane has used the privilege of her platform to stand up for other people for her whole life as an anti-war activist during the Vietnam War, publicly launching into anti-war work during the Vietnam era, Jane decided to travel the world and learn from people, whether they were Green Berets, indigenous leaders, women on the forefront of feminist movements for equity and equality. And now, for so many years, Jane has been leading on climate.

As young climate activist, Greta Toonberg said, our house is on fire and we need to act like it. Jane was so inspired by Greta, by Reverend Barber's Moral Mondays, and by Randall Robinson's anti-apartheid protests. She took all of that inspiration and launched Fire Drill Fridays in collaboration with Greenpeace in 2019. She started in Washington, D.C. with a series of peaceful actions and brought together frontline activists, youth leaders, indigenous leaders, climate experts, celebrities and activists and lovers of the planet to demand that our elected leaders act on the climate emergency. Since its inception, her movement to fight the global climate disaster has inspired millions of people to participate in nonviolent direct action and counted

more than 12 million viewers joining virtually during the pandemic. Jane has inspired people around the world. And as we launch into an election year, she is here to talk to us about what matters for the nation, what matters for the planet, and for our fellow Californians, what matters to us here in our home state. So let's dive in and learn from the icon herself. So many things I want to ask you about, you know, there's such a tremendous amount of work you do outside of, you know, the work that you became known for being such an incredible performer and, you know, an award-winning actor. And your activism has always been such a part of your identity. You've always spent the privilege of your platform to try to support people. And in recent

years, you know, you and I have really been able to spend some time together working on activism around the climate crisis and there's just there's so much that you do you know as the woman you are and with your pack and the way that you inspire all of us but before we get to where we find ourselves today i like to go back really to the beginning with people and and learn about where you come from because i'm always very curious if if now you know they say hindsight's 2020, if when you look back at your life, even into your childhood, you see the through line of this woman who was always going to lead. Do you see her in yourself at, you know, eight or nine or ten years old? You know, I guess, Sophia, what really matters and it's harder to remember

is the one, two, three, four-year-olds, you know, the really early stuff. But, you know, as I was, as I was approaching 60, which I considered my last act, I kind of divided my life into the first 30 years, first act, second years, and then the last act, starting at 60, I kind of, I became very concerned because this is the last act. Last acts are important. How am I supposed to navigate this? What should I do in this final act? And it occurred to me, and really when I was 59, looking at the next year that was going to raise the curtain on my final act, I thought, I just feel that in order to know where I have to go, I've got to know where I've been. And I began to research myself. And what I found, you know, I spent a lot of time, literally like I was

somebody else, objectively researching this person. One of the things that I hadn't really realized is that I'm brave, and I've been brave always from the very beginning. You know, it's the idea of resilience I find very interesting because you can have siblings born almost at the same, you know, in the same year or two of same parents, and one will be resilient and the other won't. It's very mysterious. I don't, I'm not sure that resilience is something you can learn. teach yourself. I think you're kind of born with it. And when I thought back on it, when I realized I was resilient is my childhood was very privileged in terms of having all the material things that I wanted and everything. But my mother suffered from mental illness

and my father was away a lot. And like all resilient children, I was able to like a radar, scan the horizon for any sign of a living being that could love me or teach me something. And I would glom on to them and they would, and yet love. A non-resilient child could be surrounded by love and not able to metabolize it, not realize that they can take it in and take it into their body. And so I was always resilient and brave. to hear you talk about your acts in the way that you frame them

and this idea of resilience I love that you can see it into your childhood and I think what's been really interesting for me is the shift into 40 has been it has been a shift into resiliency I think because I

really am finally starting to learn what I want and what I deserve and that feels like a big shift yeah yeah But I love hearing that 50 is so fabulous. I can't wait. You know, I wrote a book called Primetime about aging because, you know,

anything that frightens me, I try to make my best friend. I try to know as much as I can about it and put my, and strangled it to death with love, what scares me. And aging scares me. And when I was in my 40s, I wrote a book called Women Coming of Age. I hadn't even entered menopause yet, but I wanted to understand. as much as I could before. And then, so in my 70s, I wrote a book called Primetime, which is really good. And writing that book, I did some research, and I found out, because I thought, you know,

our historic view of aging is you're born, you peak at midlife, and then you decline into decrepitude, right? And my experience wasn't like that at all. It was like my earlier life was not so good. And I feel like I've been on an upward trajectory. It's more like a staircase rather than an arch. And then my research showed me that there's been a really important longitudinal study of hundreds of thousands of people, all races, men, women, divorced, married, that showed that over 50, in general, people tend to feel a sense of well-being more. They are more able to view things from another person's point of view. They don't make mountains out of molehills. I mean, that is also assuming relative good health. Yes. Which not everybody can assume. But it made me

realize, oh, it's not just me. Aging, you know, life gets strangely easier, assuming health. Yes. Yeah. I love that. And what an amazing perspective, I think, to be able to really look at not only your own life and your resiliency, but to your point, to understand where your privilege is, to understand, you know, how to help spend it for others. You mentioned that, you know, when you were young, things were complex. You had a mother who struggled with mental illness. Your father was, you know, a wonderful actor. You grew up around the business, but as we know, being an actor means you have to leave your life and your family all the time. Was it natural for you to pursue a career as a performer?

Or did you have hesitations about it because you knew the inside baseball of how hard it could be? Oh, I didn't want to be an actor because my dad, you know, when he'd come home from work, he never brought joy. There was always a problem. always trouble at work. I mean, I never got the sense that this is a profession that could bring you joy. And plus, I didn't have confidence. And my dad thought I was fat, so I thought I was fat.

And all those things which put a big distance between me and the profession of acting. But then in my late teens and early 20s, well, I had to get a job because my stepmother didn't want me living at home. And I became a secretary. I got fired. I mean, I didn't know, I just didn't, I didn't know what to do. And then I met Lee Strassberg's daughter, Susan Strassberg, and she said, why don't you talk to my dad about being in his classes? And he interviewed me and he took me into his classes.

Wow. And he said that I was talented. And so that's what kind of got me interested in acting. But it was just because I didn't know what else to do, frankly. I'm not one of those people who, you know, dressed up and put on performances for her family and all that kind of thing. I just, I never dreamed. I never assumed. Everything that's happened in my life is beyond my wildest assumption when I was little.

If you had told me that at my age now, I'd still be, you know, working and everything like I am today, I would have said you were crazy. And so this is just all a big surprise and a cherry on the cake. It's incredible. One of the things that I'm proud about my life is that I very intentionally tried to grow. I didn't like myself. I wanted to change, and so I went about doing it. When I want to do something, I just go about it 100%. And that's allowed me to develop what wasn't naturally mine, and I'm very proud of that.

And now for our sponsors. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. I mean, you've got Oscars on the shelf. You've got social movements. You've helped to lead. You have this beautiful, accomplished career. And to your point, you're still working. And, you know, I just watched this interview that you and Lily Tomlin did together.

You're just razzing each other, you know, and you're the humor and the way. that you two play as these friends who, you know, play best friends on TV, I'm obsessed with you both and I, and I love hearing you frame it that way that you're going to go for it 100% and make it yours because my brain is going, well, of course, everything I've ever seen you do, you've done incredibly. And I think it's why so many of us look up to you in the way we do and are so enamored with you and, you know, I pinch myself like we meet up. to talk about how we're going to fix something or work on something. And I'm like, again, the kid in me who went to theater school and studied journalism

is like, yeah, I'm just here spending my day with Jane Fonda. What? Like, this is wild. It really is wild. And I have to just say thank you for the way that you've welcomed so many of us in and said, hey, we're in this together. How did you begin? Because people ask me sometimes.

They'll say, well, you're an actor, but you're so political. and why do you feel motivated that way? And are you ever scared? It's going to ding your career. And I'm always like, look at Jane Fonda. How do you feel like you had the courage as a young woman succeeding in our industry, you know, which does often tell you to stay quiet and, you know, be mysterious so you can be taken as a character? How did you have the confidence to step out and say, I, I wouldn't.

want to defend the world. I don't just want to tell stories about it. I really want to stand up for it. When was that shift for you? Well, it was not early in my life. It was in my 30s. I was pregnant. And do you have, have you had children? No, not yet. When a woman is pregnant, she's like a sponge. It's a great learning opportunity and a teaching opportunity. She just everything affects her, everything incoming. Well, I was pregnant in 1968. Everything happened in 1968, all over the world, and I lived in France, and I was pregnant when the Tet Offensive happened, and I saw that on French television, which showed more than American television did. Wow. I met some soldiers who had deserted from Vietnam. They were war resistors, and they were

in Paris, looking for compatriots to help them find doctors, dentists, clothing, you know, they were American working class guys who needed support. And they contacted me. They somebody gave them my number and I met with them. And I asked them about the war, which at that point, I had done, I didn't really understand it. And I assumed that if we were fighting there, that it was okay. I was naive and uninvolved. And I was, 30. And they talked about the war and what was going on, and they told me about the things that they'd witnessed, which were horrifying.

And I didn't believe it. And they gave me a book by Jonathan Schell called The Village of Ben-Sook. And it's a small book, and when I finished it, that was it. My life, I realized that I had totally not understood what was happening. I totally wanted to join the anti-war movement that I had. been watching on television, and I did. And that was that. You know, you know, you owe. Once I understood, then I felt that I had to do something about it. So I, because it was soldiers that turned me on to what was happening. When I returned to the United States, I became involved in

the GI movement. It was active duty servicemen who were opposed to the war, and they had civilian supporters. But what really affected me, Sophia, was the women that I met, the activists, the seasoned activists that I met who were supporting the GI movement. I remember one outside of Fort Hood in Colleen, Texas. She really saw me. She really heard. She asked me how I felt.

felt about like, you know, they would send me onto the base with leaflets announcing a rally we were going to have. I would lead the rally. They was like, are you comfortable? She didn't, I never felt used. She wasn't opportunistic. I mean, it was weird in those days because Barbarella had just come out and I would go, I would be invited to speak at a theater and the headline would be, hear Barbarella speak. But the women were, Totally. They weren't competitive. They didn't treat me like a celebrity. Being with these women was like looking through a keyhole at the future that we were fighting for. And it was like a whole new world opened up to me of people with totally different values. I mean, my dad had great values and shows in many of his movies. But he was older and he could not have been an activist. It wasn't in his DNA. But these people really changed me. These people really changed me. These women specifically changed it changed me a lot and sent me on a path to try to become a different kind of person and and then when the controversy started hitting um part of it

sophia was i was viewed as which is true a privileged white you know celebrity daughter of all that stuff you know she'll she'll be a wuss push her a little criticize give her some shit and she'll collapse and I was like oh yeah just try me try me yes you think I'm an easy okay I'll show you and I just it was two things that kept me going despite the incredible controversy which really was very intense and very hateful and not totally undeserved I was determined to show them that I wasn't some privileged softity number two I was part of a movement I was not alone. And that's what really matters.

And it's what's beautiful about being an activist is you come into community with people who share your values. Yes. And, you know, I'd spent so much of my life having to, you know, being with people who I had to look perfect always. I had to be very thin, to be very blonde. I had to be very sexy. I had to do all. And so it's like all of what was interesting about me moved out and lived alongside in a shadow world that was the more interesting stuff was over there. And I was, you know, a fairly boring, conventional pretty girl that would do whatever the guy wanted.

And leaving that behind was a joy. Yes. The activist became a joy. Yes. Because you don't have to perform for the approval of others. You can actually use your passion to stand alongside other people. It does really change your life. I'm curious because, you know, it was the anti-war movement

that brought you into these circles that illuminated so much for you. And what brought me into activist circles was actually climate change. And pulling on that thread when you start to realize everything is connected. And for me as a young woman, it was climate change led me to the issues of women and girls around the world in education and, you know, disparities that happen with the isms, whether it be, you know, racism or homophobia or sexism. And you, as you said, once you know you owe, when you see how connected all these issues are, you can never unsee. How did the anti-war space bring you into?

climate defense and environmentalism. I spent my child my first decade in the ocean, the Pacific Ocean. I've always loved the ocean. And I grew up in the hills above Brentwood, the Santa Monica Mountains, looking out over the ocean and seeing Catalina. There was no smog. There were no freeways. Anyway, long story short, I've always cared about nature. I've always felt most comfortable in nature. I've always sought nature whenever I needed answers. I like being 14,000 feet up, etc. So the anti-war movement brought me to my second husband, Tom Hayden, who wrote the Port Huron statement and founded SDS, not the violent SDS, but he was a movement heavy, as they say. He was brilliant. He was charismatic. He'd written many books. I fell madly for him.

and we were true comrades during the anti-war movement and we did a lot of really good stuff together. And then, and I learned so much from him. And when the war ended, we switched our focus to economic democracy, the fact that corporations were really running the government. And in the process of shifting our focus and me trying to wrap my mind around economics, which is not my strong suit,

I began to realize how chauvinistic the movement was and I began to focus more on women's issues and I became friends with Gloria and with Evansler and women who made me become an embodied feminist and for a long time that's what I focus on all the time being an environmentalist but I didn't devote my life to that it was more about women's empowerment and equality

and I've traveled the world on behalf of that struggle. And then I realized that the climate crisis was happening now. This wasn't a future thing. And that very specific things had to happen fast. We had to cut our emissions in half, and we had to stop all new fossil fuel infrastructure, no new coupling or fracking or mining and that we had to keep the warming at a certain level or we were going to it was going to get out of control beyond what human beings could do

tipping points were going to happen when it was about five years ago that I decided this is the existential meaning this is what is going to determine our existence or not and women bear the brunt of it and so to confront this is also working together with women. And women are the main forces and the solutions to the climate crisis for reasons that that we could spend an hour talking just about that. And when it hit me and it, you know, books are always my epiphany. You know, it was the book about Vietnam. It was Naomi Klein's book called On Fire. That literally I read it, I put it down. I got on the phone. I call Annie Leonard, who is my mentor and who was at that time running Greenpeace. And I said, I'm going to, I want to move to

DC and Ray's Hell about this. I want to do something that's going to really matter. And together with Bill McKibbon and Naomi Klein, we figured out what became Fire Drill Fridays. Yes. And I had been, before then, I'd been so depressed because I knew that I wasn't real, that was the, it was the summer that the sky was brown, orange in California. Yes. We're falling dead out of the guy. And it was like Armageddon. And, you know, that was when I realized this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. Like this year, I can't even imagine working as an actor. This is the most important election that we've ever had because it's going to determine the future. And so this is, you know, this is full time for me. And I'm surrounded by brilliant people. You know, I have a small

team of about six people on my Jane Fonda Climate Pack. And so I feel I'm working in community with people who teach me every day. And I'm exactly where I need and want to be. It's great. That's wonderful. So how can you tell for our friends listening at home who might not know about Fire Drill Fridays what it is and how long you ran it and what you all were doing? because my goodness, did I ever love watching you? That's like the greatest part about us being in this Internet age is just being able to see what everybody's doing. And the number of times I watched you

getting escorted off Capitol Hill in the handcuffs, I was like, Jane's the coolest person I know. So will you tell the listeners about Fire Drill Fridays? Well, in the 80s, there was a movement against apartheid in South Africa. It wasn't just every week. I think it was every day. They would engage in civil disobedience outside the, in D.C., outside the South African embassy.

And it grew huge. It got really big. And it worked. And so Bill McKibbon, the founder of 350.org and brilliant writer and activist, he suggested that we copy that. I'll only do it every Friday. If the young activists who were already including Greta Toonberg, would welcome me into activism on Fridays.

And our goal was not so much to influence the government, but we knew that about 70% of Americans are concerned about the climate. But they've never become active. They've never joined a rally or a protest. They said because nobody asked them. So the great unasked, our goal with Fire Drill Friday was to inspire and mobilize the unasked to become active. And they came from all over the country, people who had never been part of a rally before.

That was the one thing that I just loved about what we did. And we were in D.C. for about five months. And I also loved the fact that I would bring celebrities there who sometimes they spoke, but most of the time they were just there to interview frontline voices. Indigenous people, people, you know, who are the most hardest hit by the question. climate crisis. People whose voices aren't heard and that, I was so proud of that. And then COVID hit. So I had to come home and we started doing Fire Drill Fridays online for two years during the COVID pandemic. And, you know, we had 9 million people in 2020, 10 million people

in 2021. It was pretty great. And a lot of them were turned into activists. And we did our last virtual fire drill Friday this month, January. I was with Naomi Klein. She was there at the beginning and it was a nice full circle. And then as part of, in a way,

fire drill Fridays, I've been working with Greenpeace on a documentary about what oil and LNG fracked gas is doing in Texas and Louisiana. People to the climate, to the environment. And we're working on that.

And we're not doing any more virtual fired roll Fridays because we're still calling on the people that became activists, but we're focusing so much on the electoral. Yes. At the end of the five years, Annie Leonard and my team looked at each other and said, you know, the problem is, this is great. And we need more and more people to become active. But there are too many people in elected office, both in Washington and in states, of the states who block good legislation because they take money from the fossil fuel industry. So we have to get rid of them.

So we started the Jane Fonda Climate Pact to elect climate champions and try to get rid of the oily Democrats who are the moderate Democrats who take fossil fuel money and won't vote for good legislation. And this year we're focusing on California. Wonderful. We have really, we have 10 wonderful candidates here that we need to get into all. Yeah. It's taken too long to make stuff happen here. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. I think that's a really important thing to point out for the folks listening. We see so much debate and infighting in our political system. And we do know that so many members, particularly of the right, you know, the GOP or bought and paid for by big oil and fossil fuel. industries, I think it's incredibly important for people to know what you just brought up, that there are also folks on the Democratic side who, because our political system is so broken,

because we did not defeat Citizens United, because these people have to raise, it's something crazy. It's like, you know, $40,000 a week or something just to stay in office. I mean, it's, it's wild how broken the system is. And the broken system sort of of, you know, it's like it ripples out into everything in our society. We see the effects of who's making the decisions, who's paying for legislation. And the climate is not something we have time to debate about left versus right, Republican versus Democrat. We've got to unite on this. There's no planet B. There's no second option. If we warm past a point, everything changes. crops are devastated, food supply collapses, clean water is over, and this will affect every single

person, no matter what you look like, how you vote where you live, but it will always affect communities of color, at-risk communities, and women first and worst. And I think for us to just agree that these facts are facts and that we've got to do something about them is one of the most pressing issues of our time. So for our friends at home, you know Jane and I agree, and I'm sure you're all nodding your heads while you're listening to us, that we are not exaggerating when we say this really is the most important election of our time. The elections have gotten more and more fraught and more and more dangerous, and we are on this razor's edge now of making sure women get to maintain their rights to bodily autonomy and that all of us get to live on a planet

that's actually inhabitable. So when we talk about 2024 and the incredible work that you're doing, Jane, with the Jane Fonda Climate Pack, I really hope everyone listening signs up to come with us. We've got a lot of work ahead. And

it is a national issue and a global issue, certainly. But for our friends in California, Jane, I would love for you to talk about what's happening with Senate Bill 1137 because what happens in California will set the tone for what happens in the rest of the country in terms of how we stand up

against these big oil polluters. And so if you live here, we need your voice on this. And if you don't live here, we need you to pay attention to this race because what happens here will definitely come for you next. So that I really want to dig into with you because you hosted an event recently and educated so many of us in L.A. about this. And I just want everybody to know what you're teaching us about. Thank you, Sophia. There are 2.7 million Californians live next to an oil well. They suffer because of it. Their health, cancer, heart disease, lung disease, asthma, kids, miss months of school. And they've been fighting and many of us with them to create setbacks, which means a law that says no oil wells or fracking pits can come within X distance from communities.

because right now they wake up and look out the window and there's an oil well right outside their bedroom or all around their playing fields and so forth. And finally, Gavin Newsom, two years ago, passed a bill, signed it, Senate Bill 1137, that said that created a 3,200-foot setback within which no oil wells could go. And historic and a lot of celebrating. And the next week, the oil companies began to gather signatures

to get a ballot measure on this year that would overturn it or prevent it from going into effect. And they spent $43 million gathering signatures for this. We're told they're going to spend $200 million to win. We don't know why exactly. I mean, can there be that much oil still left in these communities? But maybe it's just, don't tell me what to do kind of a thing. But at any rate, they're really fighting it.

Maybe because when we win, we have to win, it's going to set a precedent that they don't like. And so we are working like hell, organizing the state in California, raising money to defeat the oil companies who are lying to people. They have wonderful slick ads saying that if Senate bill 1137 passes, their gases are going to go up, et cetera. It's not true. No, that's not how it works. So we have to, we have a person named Chris Lehman who's running our campaign.

who's done 22 referendum battles and won them all. So, you know, we have that. And the campaign is going to be announced in March with together Gavin Newsom and Arnold Schwarzenegger, which is really great. Wow. And I'm doing an art auction in April right after they announced the campaign

to raise a lot of money. It's on April 9th. But just be sure you all who are watching to vote for maintaining or creating the setback, the 3,200 feet. Don't believe the lies that the oil companies are going to put out about why that's a bad idea, because we can't keep doing this to people. The bill not only prevents new oil wells from coming close to communities, but it demands that the oil companies clean up the wells that are already there, make them less, you know, leaking more safe in terms of the

air and everything else. It's a big success. I want to say something. about, you talked about the political situation being broken. I've been very critical of Joe Biden and I've been very angry with him, but what I've been finding out recently is that there is

so much being done that's fabulous and very important that it's not sexy, it's not front page news, It's little things that have to happen in order for the transition to renewables to go forward. Yes. And nobody knows about it.

And it just shows how critical it is that we reelect Joe Biden. And also, I mean, example, I just spent three weeks down in Texas and Louisiana working on this documentary. And it's just like being in the belly of the beast. It's worse than, I can't even describe what it's doing to the people and the environment there. And we were going to have a big protest in D.C. in a week. And Friday, this last Friday, Joe Biden's administration announced they were putting a pause on LNG exports. This is huge. Huge.

It's huge. It throws into question the exporting of LNG, which, you know, which we never used to export this stuff. It all happened, started, and when Obama lifted the export ban in 2015. And it's just, what it shows is that Joe Biden can be pressured. You know, he creates a context where you can pressure. Fascism offers no context like that. There's no terrain in fascism where you can be a righteous activist and do the right thing and have an official agree with you finally.

You know, it just doesn't work that way. So voting for him is not marrying him. It's just a pragmatic decision that you make so that you aren't dealing with fascism. And there's no protest vote this year. We have no room for what happened in 2000, which won't push. We have to hold our nose and vote Democrat and all the way down the ballot. And I think what's incredibly important to remind people of is that, because, people will say, well, but I don't agree on this issue or that issue. Everybody has a fill in the

blank where they say this is not the candidate of my dreams. And I get that, but you don't get to root for a team that isn't playing in the Super Bowl to win the Super Bowl. Pragmatism is required for progress. And to your point, we have a candidate who is a fascist who wants to roll back rights for everyone but rich white men and literally sell off the country for parts and become a dictator and has said all of this out loud this is not exaggeration he's said if i win i'm never leaving so okay dictatorship or you have somebody who is willing to compromise sometimes with people we don't like which upsets us but he's trying to get things done he's made incredible progress despite plenty of things we disagree with him on you know including the willow project for us climate activists

He's passed more legislation that is more comprehensive for more people in America than any president in 60 years. The Infrastructure Act has been one of the greatest revitalization projects for the nation in history. And yeah, there's all sorts of stuff we could all complain about. But to your point, when we make noise and we tell this administration what is important to us, they go and legislate on it. They go and they listen to us and they go and do the work. And that, to me, is the difference. You have to elect someone who is going to work on your behalf, not harm for their own gain, and then who will admit when perhaps they haven't made something a top five priority

that they realize their constituency wants them to and they go do it. That's the whole point of having elected officials in representation in the first place. So I think it's incredibly important, as you said, to be pragmatic. and if we want to build this utopia we believe is possible, we have to make the pragmatic steps to get there. And if we want to have an option where we can vote for a third-party candidate, well, then we should make one of our causes passing ranked choice voting nationally. But we can't pretend we have these possible outcomes that don't exist

unless we do the work to create them. It's our job as voters to go out and pressure and create progress. And so I say we go do it, and I say we do it this year on climate and on our rights as women, first and foremost. I love you. I love you, Jane.

For your parents, activists? You know, it's really interesting. My parents, when I first started really putting my neck out there, you know, publicly for political projects, were so nervous. But then I started to really think about, you know, where they come from. And my dad moved here in the 70s from Canada to go to art school was very, you know, anti-war. It took him until I was 13 years old to become an American citizen.

So when people say like, oh, do it the right way? I'm like, do you even know what that means? Like, I had to help my dad study for his citizenship test when it was finally time. My mom's family immigrated through Ellis Island from Italy. You know, they had their own American dream story. My grandfather was a Navy man. A lot of beauty around the idea of what this country could be for people. You know, when we strive to be a more perfect union,

which I think is what us activists are working towards always. And they will say, no, they weren't. But they totally were. My mom was, you know, incredibly independent and progressive. And, you know, my dad's this artist immigrant, like, interesting man who has always sort of seen through some of the, you know, insanity, particularly in our health care system, because Canada has great, you know, universal health care. We spend the most on sickness of any nation in the world and we have the worst health outcome.

So if we had a better health care system, that would be. great for everyone and cheaper for the government. But I think now in our sort of adult friendship that we have with each other, they're in their 70s and, you know, I'm now in my early 40s. They sort of see where I get it and they think I'm an anomaly. It's a little, it's a little both and. Oh, but they support you. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think they used to be scared, you know, to your point. The pushback is scary for parents and for parents, you know, to read with the internet, you know, the way the trolls are and the bots are, people are disgusting. And I think they were nervous, but much like you, the harder people push at me and

tell me to be quiet, the more I'm like, oh, watch this. And I think eventually they just meant, that's our kid. Like, that's who she's going to be. Yeah, my dad was nervous too. You know, probably like your parents, he remembered the 50s and the witch hunts. Yes. And he was worried that that was going to destroy my career. But, you know, whenever I would learn something about Vietnam, like I had a young soldier. I was at a military base in Northern California. And this very young guy, he could almost not talk above a whisper,

trying to tell me that he had killed a child and, you know, the stuff that I'd heard. And I, so I would go home and tell my dad, I had no money, so I lived with my dad, you know, after I left France. And I told him about this. And he said to me, if you can prove that that's, that this is true, he didn't believe it. He said, they, kids, they wouldn't tell you if that was true. And I said, if you can, he said, if you can prove it, I will lead a march. on Washington. And so I brought some green berets to talk to him and hours. But it, you know, my dad, it was a generation. It wasn't in my dad's jeans to lead marches or anything like that.

But he worried, however. I was friends, anyway, that's never mind too much. I talk too much. No, I love it. It's also, I think it's really powerful to hear stories like that. that, especially from someone like you. You know, you, you are this woman in our world, Jane. You've inspired so many of us. You're larger than life. And I don't know, I find it really touching and eye-opening to hear about, you know, your dad just being worried about his daughter. I think sometimes when you reach these upper echelons of, you know, industries, when you are an Academy Award winner, when you are a lifelong famous person who can call a president who, you know, leads these marches and does these things, people forget that you're also one human woman who has persevered through fear

to stand up for other people, who has been willing to risk her privilege in order to weaponize that privilege on the behalf of others. That's a big deal. Privilege doesn't like to be given up. And I think when you are willing to say, well, if I lose it all, it was worth it for this, that kind of calling, much like resilience, what you were saying earlier, can't be taught. It comes from inside of you. It's a fire that, you know, maybe you know the source of and maybe you've just learned to you let fuel yourself. But it is something that really knocks us over when we look at it.

And I don't know. I find it so humanizing to be reminded that your dad was like, kid, what are you doing? Be careful. And you said, I'm going to do it anyway. I think that's beautiful. I was friends with Angela Davis, and when she was put in prison here in California, I went and visited her. And when I came back from that visit, my dad called me into his office. And he said to me, if I find out that you are a communist, I'm going to be the first person to turn you in. And I just, I remember running to my bedroom and pulling the sheets over my head and crying and crying and crying. You know, later I could look back and understand he was worried. He'd experience the McCarthy era when people were destroyed. Yes.

Well, and people who are dangerous to power are often persecuted. I mean, when you think back to Salem, women who had these whisper networks who, you know, new medicine, were persecuted for it. And when you think about that terrible stain on American history, what McCarthyism did to so many people, what it accused people of simply people, who were progressive, who were not enemies to the government, but who wanted to see change.

You know, it's not dissimilar to what we see the former president of the United States doing now, calling to jail and execute his detractors. You know, this is very scary stuff. And when you look at these cycles of history, it's terrifying to be in the midst of it. And I imagine your dad was very afraid. I don't know what a what a cool thing from this moment to be able to look back at your legacy you've been able to prove exactly the kind of progressive that you are exactly the kind of American that you are you're you're pushing us toward that more perfect union where everyone

is safe and everyone is represented and and I I think the way you've been able to teach people that that comes down to rights and equity and the way you've seen. centered climate on that and really reminded us that that is the ground zero for our existence. It's incredibly powerful. I'd get such a kick out of it if your dad could see you now, you know? Yeah. You know what makes me sad? Maybe above all else is how human beings have become so alienated from nature.

we just we don't understand that we depend on nature for our survival and how healing nature can be for us you know if if if that weren't the case there would be no climate crisis just like if there was no racism or patriarchy there'd be no climate crisis it's part of a mindset it's like nesting dolls with the climate yes you keep discovering all the other parts to it. Yes. It happens when people, men in particular, have a hierarchical view of everything. You know, certain things matter more than other things.

Nature is way down here along with women and dogs. But, you know, white men are up here. It's, it's, these are the people who, or this is the mindset that looks at a beautiful forest and thinks flooring. Everything is for something. else that will make money transactional. Yes. We have to work hard to get back to renewing our relationship with nature.

That's why listening to Indigenous peoples are so important. Yes. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors. How have you learned from indigenous communities? How did you begin to make... in Roads as a witness in those spaces and to uplift those voices and what have those relationships taught you? Well, it taught me early on that just showing up is important, showing up respectfully.

The very first thing I did, leaving my family in France and I had made a trip to India because that's where people were going, like the Beatles. and Mia Farrow to find truth. And what I found was, I don't want to join an ash ram or smoke pot here. I want to join the Peace Corps. I just realized I'm an activist.

I came home and there was a magazine called Ramparts, which was a left wing, wonderful magazine, doesn't exist anymore, with a native woman on the cover, her fist in the air, against a white wall that said, better red than dead. And the article was about why Indians had occupations

had occupied Alcatraz. They wanted to seize Alcatraz and turn it into a cultural center. And it talked about the history of white settlers trying to destroy a native people. I really wasn't aware. I'm sorry to say, I was already 31 years old. My father had been at all these Westerns,

but I didn't really know the history. And I read it, and it was an article written because of the seizure of Alcatraz, but it gave the whole history. So I said, what was I doing in India? I didn't, you know, there's issues right here I have to deal with. And so I went to Alcatraz during the occupation. And I met a lot of Native American people there. Then they referred me to a fight that was going on in Seattle for fishing rights for the Salish, Kootenay, the tribes up there. That was the first time I ever got arrested was seizing a fort there that they wanted.

wanted to turn into a cultural center and succeeded. But I just, I went from tribe to tribe to tribe to reservation. And I just met a lot of native people and talked to a lot of native people. And at that time, the American Indian movement was, was prominent. And they were not, they were, they were not believers in holding on to the war dances and the ceremonies and the sun dances and the prayers so much. there was a big split. Do we try to assimilate within the Indian movement, or do we maintain our culture and our past? And then years later, being at Standing Rock, and seeing how the ceremonies and the sun dances and the prayers had helped so many young people with

addiction and alcoholism and so forth, that they came all the way back to wanting to embrace their traditions. And I just thought that that was very important and very beautiful because I've been part of that whole transition and arguments. So that I know enough Native American people to know that there's a unique sense of humor that I love. And it's just absolutely moving to me, how they've endured an attempted genocide on behalf of the white settlers, you know, being moved from land to land, having their children kidnapped, put into Catholic schools, and so forth. I feel like if I was an indigenous person here, I'd want to have a machine gun.

And instead, as a people, they tend to want, they're still trying to teach us, still willing to step up and try to teach us that there's another way of relating to nature and another way of viewing things if we're open to listening. And it's why, you know, with Fire Drill Friday, there were so many indigenous voices, especially young indigenous voices that I had on. And it was really beautiful. Yeah. One of the, sometimes when I'm trying to learn, you know, as you speak about, you show up in community.

When people ask me, you know, how do you start? I say, find the helpers. Go to the people you want to learn from. Show up and shut up. And learn from them until you know enough to be able to speak up. And one of the things that really helps me when I'm trying to learn about a populace or a community or a particular issue is I try to make sense of what affects me so emotionally through statistics or math because math I find to be the only non-emotional

thing. And that stat that indigenous peoples currently make up 5% of the world's population but are responsible for the stewardship of 85% of the planet's biodiversity. The fact that any of us are going, well, let's see what they know. It's like, no, they know everything. And we, and to your point, we must learn how to relate better to the planet that we live on if we would like to remain guests here because we are. You know, the world, if we break it and humans can't live here anymore, the planet will recover.

We just won't. And I hope that eventually we pay attention in the way that, you know, you have been teaching us to pay attention to the wisdom in these communities for so long. You know, I love that you say, you say to people, go to the people who you want to learn from, yes, I like that you call for community because you want to go fast, go alone, but you want to go far, go together. that's critical. And I love to encourage that. Yes. And I think the most powerful thing I've learned in the last, you know, 20 years of being in spaces like this is slow is fast.

Because when you move quickly, when you go alone, you make mistakes and then you have to backtrack and start over and rebuild and take that down because you did it wrong and learn a new way to do it. And if you move a little more slowly and you move in community and you really assess and build. correctly, you'll get there faster in the end and you'll get there with everyone by your side. And that, you know, that, that I think changes a life. So Jane, what do you, what do you want us to do? Our listeners, our groups, as we get into 2024, a lot of people are nervous. A lot of

people feel overwhelmed. That's, you know, by design, that's what fascism does. It makes you tired. What do you want listeners to know? What's the one, you know, site you want people to visit or the one thing you want people to sign up for to prep in community for this big fight we have ahead together this year? One thing that you can do is join me on my climate pack. And you do that by texting Jane to 405.06. Okay. I'm going to do it right now. What people need to do is join an organization that has a track record, preferably that has diversity in it. You don't want to join an organization that's all white men. I'm sorry, but. Yeah, they haven't proven a great track record, have they? My favorite ex-husband, Ted Turner, always says, we've had our chance and we

it up. Now turn it over to women. Exactly. Will Ferrell just said that recently, too. I'm like, see, look, they're waking up. These men, leave it to us. We'll do it. Anyway, join an organization and take action to stop fossil fuels and to push us in a direction toward alternative energy, sustainable energy, meaning wind and sun. Because this climate crisis is real and we have to act fast and we can make a big difference. Indeed. And for our friends listening at home, we're going to make sure to share some links and resources with you in the show notes and also on our Instagram stories this week. So we'll make everything easily shareable and easy to follow. I really want to be respectful of your time, Jane, even though what I really want to do is just drive over to your house and sit on your couch and talk to you for the rest of the day. I would love nothing more. Okay, great. I'm going to come over soon. But I have for this interview, I have one final question. for you. It's my favorite thing to ask everyone who graces me with their time. I'm curious

in this moment in your life, what feels like your work in progress? Oh, my relationship with my children. That's, I'm sure, sounds strange. But one of the things that I've learned is that it never ends as a parent. It's never too late. I was not such a good parent when my children. When my children were younger. They are now very much adults. They both have children. And, you know, when you're my age, you spend a lot of time thinking, when I'm on my deathbed, what am I going to regret? And then try to focus on that. And my main thing on my deathbed is going to be, do they know I love them and do they love me and are they okay? And so that's my thing. Besides the climate crisis is, is trying to be okay with my kids and my grandkids.

That's beautiful. Do you ever feel like because your life has had such big callings and you show up for community in such a big global way, it maybe takes a little longer to get into the one-on-one and the personal, and when you're always getting called and pulled in so many directions, you don't get to spend a lot of time at home, much like you talked about with your dad. And I think it's actually, I'm processing what you're saying in real time.

So forgive that my question is becoming more of an observation. But how beautiful that you also are in a stage where you get to come back inward more. Yeah. Wow. It's not even so much having the time. It's when you do have the time really being present. You know, as opposed to, I got to write that letter to someone or I've got to go to that meeting, you know what I mean? And when you're, when you're my, you know, my daughter was a tiny little baby when I became an activist.

And so, you know, it's not right to feel justified to not be showing up because what you're doing is good. Bullshit. You've got to find a way to do both. and the chances are if you do both things will turn out better the activism and the child that's beautiful yeah there's always the opportunity to recalibrate yeah all the wisdom you'll always bring it i love talking to you jane thank you so much thank you This is an I-Heart podcast.