Drama Queens - Work In Progress: Jamie-Lynn Sigler

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

She lit up our screens in the iconic HBO series, The Sopranos and now she is inspiring people by opening up about her health journey. Jamie-Lynn Sigler joins Sophia for an emotional chat about getting the role of a lifetime at 16 years of age, dealing with health problems at the height of her career, why she kept her diagnosis a secret, and the many women who helped her on her journey. Plus, the actress tells all about her new podcast with Christina Applegate and the special bond they share.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello, Whipsmarties. Today, we are joined by an old friend and a big inspiration to me. Today's guest is Jamie Lynn Sigler. You know her. most likely from her iconic role playing meadow soprano on the hbo series the sopranos she has done

incredible work in film television theater i mean hello headlining a tour at msg she is just an unbelievable performer and also an incredible author in 2002 she wrote an autobiography called wise girl what i've learned about life love and loss that is so beautiful and this year she started a podcast with Christina Applegate, another incredible acting icon, who shares something really personal with Jamie Lynn. Both of them were diagnosed with MS, and they've started a podcast called Messy, based on their friendship and the lessons they've learned throughout their diagnosis and their journey with the condition. Jamie Lynn is so vulnerable and inspiring to me, and I know to so many of you. And while she juggles all of these incredible projects, she also happens to be a mother

of two amazing young sons with her husband Cutter. They are truly some of my favorite people to hang out with, people that if you ever are fortunate enough to be with at a wedding, you definitely want to hit the dance floor with. And not only is she so incredibly fun, but she is so incredibly inspiring. I've probably said that too many times in this intro, but it's true. I can't wait for you all to hear this conversation. It really left me feeling so excited and really reminded me about what's possible. Enjoy. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I I felt myself actually wanting to like dive in to questions immediately because I was like, I'm just going to start like blabbing at you and asking you everything anyway. So I'm glad I push

record fast. Great. So, God, I feel like we have so much to catch up on. And there's also just so much that's exciting in your world. I'm thrilled about the new project. I have a bejillion things I want to ask you about. But before we get into what's going on now, I actually really like to rewind with people and go way back because so many people know you as an actor and an advocate and all of these amazing things that you are. You know, you let us in on your life and your family and like all the exciting things you guys do. But I always like to figure out who guests were before we knew you and we've known you for a long time. So if you sit at this vantage point today and you look back, like you, you know, you TiVo rewind back to life when you were eight or nine, do you see yourself in Jamie as a little girl or were you like a completely different kid?

It's so crazy you're asking me this question right now because I, in, because of where I'm at in my life right now and especially in this. stage of my life where I'm finally realizing that I don't need to hold anything back and I don't need to hide. I wrote this letter to my younger self recently. And it's kind of like the beginnings maybe of a book. And I am still so much that girl. She's still in me. She that she is very insecure, she's very scared of the world. She doesn't know who to trust. She wants to be perfect because she feels she won't be loved yet she maybe wishes something was wrong because if something's wrong, people will love her. And I know that girl so well, but I want to tell her that while life doesn't

go exactly how she planned or wanted, it's so much better. It's so much harder, but because of that, it's so beautiful. And, you know, I recently had Edie Falco on our podcast, and she had said to me, you know, because sometimes I'd said, like, God, I wish I could just go back to that little girl or that moment in time and redo it and be who I am now. And she said, but who's to say you would be who you are now if you weren't that person then. So little Jamie on the outside had it all, but on the inside was just very afraid all the time. Yeah.

And not because of, you know, my circumstances. You know, I was raised by two wonderful people. My parents are still alive and I'm still very close with them. But, you know, my mom grew up in Cuba and came over as an immigrant. in Project Peter Pan during the revolution and had a very, very traumatic childhood. And then my grandmother came over a year later. And because of that and their intimate relationship, what helped them survive was it was them against the world and nobody else. We couldn't trust anybody else. And so that was, she thought she was protecting me,

but that's kind of the world that she thought I was going to be going into as well. And so it took a lot of unlearning. Like, a lifetime, you know, 40 years of unlearning of that. But even though she had that, I was also bolstered by this, like, beautiful community of community theater on Long Island, which became my home away from home. Mm-hmm. And I loved it so much.

And it was, it felt, you know, I think when you're a creative person and you get an opportunity to, like, live in your creativity, especially at a young age, it just feels so effortless and feels like you're calling and feels like what you're meant to do and you really can't explain why. And I'm really lucky that I was able to have that as a little girl because I don't know what would have happened if I didn't. Yeah. Yeah, God, it's a big deal to have, you know, a place, a space, an outlet. And especially, actually, it's so wild that, well, thank you, first of all, before I say the craziness of the parallel. Thank you for being as honest and transparent as you just were. Oh, yeah. I almost don't

know any other way now, or I don't want to. I don't either. And it's funny, I just recently had a very in-depth conversation with a friend of mine who's a journalist. And she was like, God, I just thank you for being willing to be so honest. And I think what I've realized, is like if we're not being honest and we're not being vulnerable with each other, like, what are we doing talking? What are we doing taking up space? Because to your point, life is hard. And no matter what it looks like on the outside for anyone,

people are struggling and like the way you're talking about your experiences as a little girl, like my inner child is like you too. Oh. You know, I grew up with, you know, my mom came from a family with a lot of trauma and their immigration stories. My dad, you know, was an immigrant as well. And there's, there really is something, I think, to that and to that identity and to the, the wanting to be the perfect picture of the American dream. And I, from a very young age, before I even started performing, learned that, like, I had to be a perfect daughter. and a perfect, you know, neighbor, and there was a lot of fear, and it took me a really long time

to start living instead of trying to live up to expectation. Wow, yeah. And so when you talk about that, I'm just like, oh, I'm not by myself. So, yeah, and that's, that's, yeah, of course. And I think that's the beauty of being vulnerable. I think sometimes we can fear that our specific vulnerability will not connect with somebody else and make you feel even more alone because then you share and then you realize that nobody else feels what you will. That's never been the case.

In fact, I find the more specific I've ever gotten with my vulnerability, the more connected I have been with other people and the more universal it becomes. Because like you said, we all have hard things. that's part of the human experience. I really believe in my heart that we're here to evolve and grow. And whether in the end of the day, that's true or not, it's what gets me through my life. And I find that there's different paths that get us to kind of really the same places in life and the same challenges and the same roadblocks. And it's what shapes us and what makes us who we are, but it also makes us connect with other human beings, because what's the point

of life if you're not doing that, you know? Exactly. Exactly. And it's like, what an interesting thing when you layer, you know, the kind of connection you're talking about cultivating in your life. What is really universal is specific. And ironically, that's something I talk about a lot with work. Like, I think really, really incredible film or television, you know, for some reason, the show Fleabag is popping into my head. Like, that's an incredibly specific character. Yes. But it felt universal to so many people. Because of its specificity, you could go, well, I don't have her life, but I relate to the way she feels. And it's, I don't think it's any accident that that phrase comes up while we're talking about vulnerability and you're also talking

about your creative identity in theater, in finding a voice, in finding a space where you got to explore feelings and ironically didn't have to perform as perfect because the characters are never perfect. So in a way, they can be your outlet to learn. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's so true. Wow. I didn't even think about that. It really is an opportunity to play just human beings and they're flawed selves. And you see the beauty and the lessons and the arcs and the growth. And it's so crazy that we're constantly being fed these stories, right? On TV and in movies and in theater. And it's like we don't allow ourselves the room to have that same growth as humans. Like in real life. You think you're supposed to have it all figured out. And yet the characters, we realize. relate to are the ones that don't. Yeah. Oh, I've really felt recently that I have never felt more powerful than when I say, I don't know. Teach me. Show me. Like, I'm always willing to have my mind changed or my mind influenced. I used to, especially, you know, in our business, I think

when you grow up as a kid and you want to, you have to be a little adult and you've got extra responsibilities that kids don't have and you you kind of fake it till you make it and you pretend you've got it and you don't ask many questions and it kind of breeds you to never have an opportunity to be like oh i i i don't know and i and i felt so much pressure because of that and now i'll go into anything an audition room a job a lunch and and and not and and stand with the power of i don't know it all and it just feel safe in that and it's just been so nice to kind of, yeah, release that pressure off of myself. That's really interesting because when you talk about, you know,

finding your love of performing in community theater as a kid, and then I think about you, I mean, not just you booked a role, you booked the role of Meadow Soprano at 16. Was that both exciting and jarring? Was that an environment where you felt like you had to act like you knew everything because you were so young? Right. I imagine it was amazing, but probably a lot of pressure. Yes, but not any pressure that anyone there put on me.

They were so, if I think back, like so loving and so caring and so gentle with me. And Robert, who played my brother on the show, especially in those first couple of, years. But me, Jamie, was like, you know, put up this front that I had it all together and now I'm cool because I thought that's what I needed to do. But that whole experience just I, this isn't one of those moments where I wish I could go back, but I understand that it wouldn't have been the same. But I just, I really wish that I let people in more during that because while it was 10, years of the most incredible, I got paid to go to the best acting school, right? And I just got to work with the greatest people and the greatest material and have some of the most incredible, like,

once in a lifetime experiences because of it. My personal life was in shambles through those whole 10 years. So it's, it ended up becoming like a really safe place for me to land similar to my community theater where no matter what was going on in my personal life, whether I was, married and changed my name and now I'm divorced. I'm back to Sigler and I'm this and I'm this size and now I'm this size and they just welcomed me no matter what and that's so beautiful what it is and it was and I'm it's I'm like just now starting to grasp the professional aspect of like what I was a part of and really understanding it because for so long it was just about the personal experience and the family that I was able to have there and the support that I had

that I really needed during that time in my life. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. Do you feel like, because to your point, you know, nobody ever knows what's going on in your life. They only see, you know, the perfectly edited episode with the soundtrack and the quick cuts and things. Did, was it jarring to be on such a popular show when you were struggling at home? Or was it, was it like a great escape for you? Like to be on something so big and it hit the zeitgeist in such an incredible way. I mean, it feels like you had lightning in a bottle Yeah.

Was it, I love that it felt safe for you to go to work. Yeah. But do you think it made you feel like you had to perform a little more in your life or, or no? Well, I already was because I was hiding a pretty significant diagnosis of MS. So I think what it really hit me the hardest when the show ended. Because I was already in the groove of Meadow. Yeah.

I knew her, I got her. She was second nature. I mean, it's 10 years, you know? I mean, she was literally in my body, in my soul, in my breath. Like, it was easy to slip into her. But in my personal life, I was starting to pretend all the time. I was covering up. I was being somebody that I wasn't.

I was lying. I was hiding. And so when the show was over and I started auditioning again and putting myself out there. I couldn't be real. I wasn't doing good work because I had no idea how to be authentic in my own life. So how the hell am I going to be authentic in my work? And so it was like it was another 10 years of a real struggle. I got to do and be part of wonderful projects. And every once in a while I could get in a flow but like it was very difficult for me because and not because it was oh I'm I'm doing projects that are not you know regarded like Sopranos I mean

that like you said was lightning in a bottle and I'm never going to like try to achieve that again but it just felt like maybe I don't know how to do this maybe it was just like a fluke that I'd have gone that because I was just so all over the place in my personal life that I and I was no longer a kid and I didn't have the extra care and people weren't like they were ready for me to be a grown up as they should have and show up and do my stuff and I just I was lost I was completely lost and that was a really really hard transition for me yeah well and I think I think that's something we don't get to talk about a lot you know, the incredible gift of playing someone for 10 years. When you talk about how it felt to play

Meadow, that's how it fell for me to play Brooke Davis. It was like, she's a part of me. It feels like I have a sister, but I don't actually have, you know? And it's so jarring to try to get someone out of your body so you can make room for someone else. And if you have stuff going on, where you feel like you have to be the professional everyone expects, the performing can actually take you out of authentically performing on camera. And it's like a weird self-exploration that you have to do, and nobody teaches us to do it. We just have to like learn it by doing, which is so strange and surreal. How, so hold on, because when we think about the 10 years you did the show, you started at 16, do I have it right that you got diagnosed at 20?

Yep. Okay. Yeah. So halfway through the show, essentially, you get this diagnosis. Did you tell anyone there or were you like, I can't tell a soul and you just had like a family member or a doctor? How did you juggle this? So my parents and my fiance at the time were in the room when I found out the news. So I had been diagnosed with Lyme's disease at 19.

It's still sort of this question whether it was a misdiagnosis or could that have woken up a dormant MS gene. We'll never know. I'm done trying to figure that out. I'm just moving forward. So I had had this kind of flare of similar symptoms that I had had the year prior. So I had gone to the hospital just for some testing, not expecting anything. So my parents, like I said, were with me, my fiancé, and I was told.

this news and I think it was like either the next day or a few days later I had had my cast physical before you know you start each job you kind of go to this doctor and they you know give a general physical and they're like are you well enough to work great and I had gone to him because I didn't know what to do and I said I think I just got diagnosed with MS and he's like yeah I don't think you should tell anybody about that and I'm not going to put this down. I, you know, I think that, you know, nobody was talking about it back then. I didn't know anybody. I had never really even heard of the disease. And nobody in our industry, especially, you know, was working or talking about anything like that. This is a really long time

ago. So I just followed that advice because I also wasn't that symptomatic at the time. So it wasn't, it just wasn't something that I thought about or that I had to think about all the time. And so no, I told no one. I told absolutely no one. The very last season, um, I started having, so I should back up a little, I went through a divorce. I got married and went through a divorce. And that was really hard. I wasn't even telling anybody about that one day, literally in the makeup trailer. I think the makeup girl was like, we haven't seen, you know, AJ around. How's he doing? And I just started. bawling because I just couldn't hold it in and I remember them all coming around me and I

remember in that moment I was sitting in my hair and makeup chair and I had the hair and makeup team around me and I don't remember who else was in the trailer maybe edie because it was always her and I early in the morning and everyone was just wrapping their arms around me and I remember thinking you can tell them you can tell them you can tell them and I just couldn't do it I just was so scared I had already told them one secret I couldn't share too Yeah. And so the stress of the divorce really took its toll on me, as it would on anybody. And I'm 24 years old. And I started having these symptoms like I couldn't hold my bladder, having to feel like you have to like rush to the bathroom. So all of a sudden we would be doing a take and I'd be like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I got to go pee. And they would be like, what the, what is going on with her? You know? Yeah. And Jim Gennelphini pulled me aside one day. and he was like, what's going on?

I can see that something's happening and I felt like tears welling up in my eyes and he was just the most, like, loving, gentle presence. It's just, there's not enough words to describe him. And I told him. And I said, I'm so fucking scared. I don't know what to do. And he's like, so I remember him putting his like big paw on my shoulder.

And he's like, whatever you need. I'm not going to tell anyone, but whatever you need, you let me know. We never talked about it again. I remember then about a month later, we were doing one of our photo shoots, and Edie confided in me that she had been fighting breast cancer at that time, and she showed me that she had been wearing a wig, and I couldn't believe that I didn't know, and I was looking at her, and I saw myself, like, oh, my God. You just shot this whole season and we're fighting cancer and I didn't know.

And so that was the moment that I told her. And then I told Aida Titoro, who played my aunt on the show one time when her and I went to lunch. And remember I feeling a relief that just some people knew at work. Like some people knew, I didn't have to talk about it. Again, we didn't really discuss it with each other, but it was just a small bit of comfort that for those last two seasons. I had these three people that, God forbid, anything happened. I knew somebody understood what was going on with me. Yeah. And it's very poetic. But the very, very last time I was ever able to run physically was when I shot my very last shot, which is the very last time you ever see

Meadow when she's walking, running across the street, which is crazy. Like my body just held on just long enough for me to to finish that job. But yeah, I just, I didn't know how it would be received. I had also felt already like such a burden on that show. Like I had an eating disorder in the beginning. I had Lyme. Then I got married and then I got divorce and I was like, I just felt like it was probably going to be like, oh, another thing with this girl.

You know, I just, I couldn't. help but feel that way and so god then telling them i had a mess like what would that mean they'd had in my head they would have had to fire me and then you know floundering like i said once the show is over the way i was i mean there's no way that i could ever even then on top of that tell people what i was dealing with you know i just it just felt like the right decision i don't think it was but it gave me 16 years to begin my journey of acceptance with it. It gave me time to see what this disease would mean for me and my body, which is hard.

It manifests differently for everyone. So it gave me the time I think that I needed to figure out how to set the boundaries that I needed and how to speak about it. Well, and I think that's what you're speaking to right now is so profound, and it is something a lot of people don't have to deal with when you are such a public person, whether it's a diagnosis, a divorce, you know, any stage in your personal evolution, you know what an example you can set, you know you can be a safe harbor for people by talking open. openly and you also have to learn to be a safe harbor for yourself before you can do it for anybody else and so you know there's there's like a there's a real there's a both and in that yeah and some people I'm sure would say you should never have to talk about it and some people would say you should have told everybody right away and it's like enough the only voice that actually

matters here is yours and you did it the best way you knew how and you did it while coping with all of the pressure that people in our industry have to cope with, but certainly that young women have to cope with, which is, you know, men are allowed to fail, fuck up, be imperfect, have addiction, get divorced, get other people pregnant, do whatever crazy shit they do, but the minute a woman does anything that's like less than perfect, she's a pariah. And so, you know, it's like a particular brand of nonsense we go through. And yet, you've arrived in this place where you have survived all these things, where you have thrived through these things, where you have built this big, beautiful life. And you have chosen to share.

Yeah. I'm really glad you shared on your own terms. Thanks. And how has that, how was that shift? I mean, was it, did it feel? feel like leaping and not being able to see the net below you? Or were the 16 years kind of enough that you felt ready to take that public step? Like, what does that like? You know, in hindsight, I think that those 16 years mainly were what the biggest takeaway for me was how much I could trust other people. Because right, when I told you, like, I was kind of raised to be told that I couldn't, especially women. The group of women that I had around me makes me so emotional to think about that like held this secret for me and covered up for me and held me and pushed me and sat with me and cried with me and made me talk about the hard stuff because I always wanted

to be the strong positive one and never talk about it. Like they are the ones that got me through those 16 years, no doubt. And so being able to build that safety net of community around myself that I had never felt in my life that I so desperately always wanted, I think is what gave me the strength to ultimately say I have MS. I wasn't expecting like the world to stop. I mean, And like, you know, maybe for somebody who would glance for a minute and I'd be like, oh, wow. But it was a big moment for me because I didn't have to, I was starting to harbor feelings of shame around it. And, you know, when you hold a secret for so long, you can't help but sort of have these ugly feelings around it. And the catalyst, which is super weird, to get me to finally, because my friends at that point, and I had also told my representatives,

because I was also at work now, it had physically manifested the point where you could see that something was up with my walking. And I would, I had all these little angels around me sometimes. Like I did this pilot once and there was a stunt guy that could see that I was having struggling and we were in a group and we were supposed to go across the street really fast. And he's like, hey, I'm just going to grab your shirt and hold you while we move

so you can keep up with us. And I was like, for sure that was a guardian angel because I was freaking out inside how I was going to do this. I had to get this scan and it looked like I had had a herniated disc. So I was like, oh, my God, this is great. I can blame my walking on my herniated discs how I can get through this next job because, you know, people start saying, what's up? What's going wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? Sorry to lose track for a second. So I had this friend who had seen this hypnotist that was really helping her lose weight. But he was like the hypnotist of the stars and it helped, you know, I think Oprah had seen him and

he helped Matt Damon quit smoking and this and that. And she's like, Jane, I don't know why, but like, go see this guy. Maybe he could help you with your feelings about yourself and this disease. And I remember I was walking up the driveway to go see him. And I was looking down as I was walking. And he said to me, why are you looking down when you're walking towards me right now? And I said, because I'm embarrassed and I don't like to watch people watch me walk. And he was like, okay, let's go in.

And I remember we talked for like two. minutes and then he put me under hypnosis I don't know what he said to me I don't know what happened but I came home that day and I said to my fiance my husband I said I think I'm ready to talk about this and he's like what what like they had been begging me for so long and I was like I think I'm ready I feel safe with the group of people that I have around me and my life that if nothing ever comes my way again, I am fine. I am blessed. I am great. I have more than I could ever want from this life. Like, I'm going to take, I'm going to take this chance and see what happens. And it was a beautiful, scary, wonderful moment when I did. It was, you know, whenever you share your

vulnerability, I cannot imagine anybody that just doesn't feel the love that can come back at them. And I did tenfold. And it was beautiful. And I was very surprised, too, to hear, like, so many people in all walks of life and all different careers and occupations were hiding it as well. Like people reaching out to me saying, yeah, I'm afraid to tell my boss or I'm afraid to tell my friends because you're so afraid of people limiting you, judging you. And like I had said, I really needed to also figure out what this disease was in my body

because I don't want to go with like, I don't know, like, I'm 22 years in. I know, I know, which gives me the confidence to fulfill all the roles in my life. Right. But what the, also that moment began was my, it was actually, it was as if I had just gotten diagnosed that day. Like, I'm like, okay, now I'm going to know what it's like to live with MS and have people know. and there was a really long adjustment period of me still not wanting to ask for help, me still sort of moving through life the way I had been for those 16 years. It took some time.

Wow, that's really profound, that it felt like a re-diagnosis or like a new thing. And now a word from our sponsors. You coped in secret for almost 20 years. Yeah. And now you have all these years under your belt, which in a sense you're saying felt like starting over, where people know, do you find little shifts? Like, do you no longer feel shame about the days you're physically presenting? Do you feel more comfortable asking for help? like how how does the adjustment because as you say you know what this disease is in your

particular body yeah how how do you think the adjustment has shifted your experience now that you know everyone knows i still hate how i walk i still i'm working on that um i still get frustrated. I still get sad and mad and feel bad, but I let people help me. And I talk about the hard stuff that I never did before. You know, I had teamed up with Novartis and created this like three-step guide that we have. It's at reframingMS.com because what I have found in these moments is that these like three steps that I constantly come back to have really been helpful for me and the first step is reflect and that means just like sitting with those really hard feelings that we always want to push away like the grief the grief for my old body

the grief for my old abilities the sadness the depression and then reflect like okay this is this is part of my life but I there's still a lot of things I want to do. Like, there's still a lot of, I'm a mom and of two active little boys. I still want to be very present in their lives. I have a husband that I love and I want to go on adventures with and I still love to act and I still want to do that. So then the third step is reframe. Like, how do I do those things? What do I need to accomplish those things? like at work, I'm so grateful the past couple of jobs that I've had have really allowed me to just settle into the creative and not worry about the physical.

Because Sophia, like, probably for 20 years, all I cared about was getting through the day physically. And like the dialogue and the actual creative was like so on the back burner. So one of my last jobs, like, to say like, yeah, you know, if you can park my trailer, like a little bit closer and just have a chair nearby in between takes or or scenes so I can kind of sit. And then it just became this like well oiled machine that I realized I wasn't a burden. I wasn't extra. I wasn't, you know, a problem. And I kept getting asked back. And then they made me a series regular. And then I shot this other pilot, which unfortunately never went where

after I got the role, people were like, you know what? We're super inspired by you, Jamie. What if this character gets diagnosed with MS in this show and we go through this journey with her. And I just like, these are things I never thought possible. But also, because of the way it's affected me, I am finally bringing out a cane, which is like, you saw me at Ryan's wedding. That was like one of the first times that I brought it out with me. Because normally I would always hang on my husband or friends. And I'm like, you know what?

I'm like so, I'm going to give myself the support. that I need because when I wasn't, it just like, I don't know, like I was saying, I felt shame and I felt less valuable and I felt like less of a person. And it took a lot of like the help that I'm saying is is the talking, the being vulnerable with my friends of being like, Jamie, like we don't see this at all. They've helped me figure out how to go to concerts with them. They're like, we will drop you off, we will go park, you know, they make, they have forced me to still participate in my life. And because of all these experiences, which I think is a lot of the reason I'm going to believe is why this is part of my life because of the position that I'm in

and the experiences I've had of being in secret and having to figure out and be creative to share with other people now. Because to know, especially, since we've created our podcast messy, like to connect with the MS community in particular, to be able to share with these people what they're going through and for them to feel seen, I for so long just thought I was the only one in the world that felt this way or was going through something like this.

And I'm so honored to be able to share my experiences now because nobody should ever have to go through that or feel that way. That's the thing, right? Is whatever it is, and you know, you're bringing up such universal experiences, whether it's MS or any diagnosis, whether it's divorce, you know, anything that sort of undoes your plans, there is so much shame when you stay stuck. and the minute you begin to cultivate community, you realize you're not alone.

You realize that this thing that you're going through is meant to teach you something and might really be meant to make you a more whole version of yourself. Absolutely. Isn't it interesting that you rediscovered your creativity once you let everybody in on your secret? And I think about that, like the big life shift. for me, you know, on the divorce subject in the last year is like, oh, when I was trying to act like everything was perfect, I literally lost myself. I felt like I became a paper doll. Like I just, I went flat. And then I started to let people in and I realized how many other people I knew

were going through it at the same time. And, and suddenly I became like three dimensional again. Yeah. And everything feels different, including my relationship to my work. That's great. And it's so surreal. And like, I love hearing you talk about it, you know, what you and Christina are doing. And also the way you talk about what you and your husband do with your boys. Like, you're doing this big thing in the public and you're also doing this big thing in your home. And I'm curious. you know, as a person who doesn't have kids yet, but has always, like, desired to do that, I wonder how, like, when I would imagine, you know, like you said, your boys are rambunctious. Yes. You guys are, you know, having to run around after two of them, and you've got everything going on. And then you and Christina are talking about your experiences with MS. And, you know, for our friends at home, messy, the wonderful podcast that Jamie Lynn started is with

Christina Applegate, who we all, you know, know, know, who just crushed it at the Oscars this year. God, she made me laugh so hard. She's the best. Just the best. And did it, was there any part of you that was nervous to undertake this other vertical of work? Or did it just feel like the next right thing? You mean messy? Yeah. No. Messy has been the most fulfilling thing ever, work-wise. Like this came from Christina and I having for over a year really long phone conversations where we would laugh. I mean, nobody makes me laugh harder than that woman. We cry and we were being vulnerable and honest in ways that I had never been.

Yeah. And she needed a light at the end of the tunnel a little bit, which I think I was able to to give her. And I needed somebody to be like, you're going to say this is hard today. You're going to say that what you just did was not easy. You know, you're going to say what you're feeling is, it's unfair. Like she gave me the permission to have, to take the time to have those feelings. And so these conversations, like, were so wonderful and we were getting to know each other. And one day she said to me, Jane, I think we need to put these out there. And I said, are you sure? And she's like, yeah, this is the time. I am done. I have played the role of Christina Applegate for 50 years and I'm

done playing her. I'm ready to be me. I'm ready to put it all out there. And it's just so inspiring to watch her just own everything she's feeling unapologetically. And, you know, for us to be able to reflect and and commiserate and support each other. other. It's, I think it's also just a beautiful representation of female friendships and what they can do for us. And also I think that you're going to, you're on this journey of two women that and you're like you said, we all can relate to this or having to accept something that's hard. Accepting a hand that was dealt that you wish you didn't have, but you do. And there's nothing you can do about that and what we are doing with that, with that acceptance. Where are we going now?

What are we, you know, you're, you're really catching us in two different stages, but also in this pivotal moment where her and I both are like, screw it. We're going to, we're going to push through and we're going to see what life has to offer. She calls us disabled babies, like, you know, and cracks the best jokes about it. But it's just, it just feels like it was the most organ. it came together so organically and in such a way that you know when you're like feel like you're just like riding this wave and you have no control but you know it's right it's just it's just one of those moments where like we have no expectations we have no like grandiose dreams of like how much money will make or where it will go or what we will do we are just putting ourselves

and our hearts out there and just trusting that it's it's it's what we're supposed to be doing right now. Well, what it sounds like you're describing is really being in flow. Yeah. And it's so interesting to me to hear you talk about it this way because you're also talking about the fact that she really helped you write your own permission slip to have all of your feelings, not just the perfect ones. Yep.

Not just the nice ones. Yep. And I think that is something. And wherever that culture comes from, and I'm sure it's worse for women who do what we do for work, because there is a lot of. a performance to it. And God forbid you have a bad day or say something's hard, people tell you you're ungrateful. The horror. So, you know, you really kind of divest from your anger or your frustration. And to be able to reclaim that, I think, is actually really healing, especially for

women, whether that's around relationship or disability or any of it. And I love that as you are reclaiming that other side of yourself that maybe you used to think you had to hide or be ashamed of, you're also like, oh, what's bringing me the most joy is like a full three-dimensional honesty with my friend. Yes. And it's, and it's, and it kind of goes back to that letter that I was writing myself where it's like you, you know, you always, it's interesting that life gave you something, especially in your body that is, it is the most imperfect now. And you, you, love yourself the most that you ever have in this imperfect body. And I truly do not know who I would be without MS. And I don't want to know. As much as it breaks my heart to struggle

physically the way that I do, I just, I know this was meant to be part of my journey. And I am, I'm grateful for it. I really, really am. And I'm, it is an honor to be able to have the platform that we do to share. because it is feeling exactly what you said it is healing used to be so heavily focused for me on the body right i would always see healers and this and that i would i've i have tried it all yeah and healing has nothing to do with my physical body anymore to me it's it's healing my heart myself my soul who i am and understanding that i am a perfectly imperfect human being exactly as i should be I am loved no matter what I'm coming into a room with.

And that is okay. And it's liberating. It is liberating to feel like I'm not judging myself all the time. You know, I'm giving myself grace to be all the colors. Yeah. Oh, it's so, it's just so cool. Oh, well, you know, it's what we, I wish for you and anyone. And it's, and again, I think it's like really what we're trying.

to do with messy is just really, you know, share our experience just so you can hear yourself in our words, you know? Totally. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. So how do you guys, how do you sort of build the podcast? Because obviously you co-host it together. you're talking about your journeys, which are incredibly unique, yet very universal. So how do you pick guests or conversation topics or like, how did the two of you do this? It's messy. There's like, there's no format. It's not very structured.

When it comes to our solo episodes, her and I will text each other a lot during the week with our producer Allison. Alison Bresnik, by the way, who says hi. One of my favorite humans. She's the best. And we'll be like, you know, for instance, we have an episode coming up on body image. And it is so good only because like, oh my God, I'm so proud of Christina and like just where she led this episode. But it was like, you know what? I felt insecure at the Emmys and I want to talk about it.

We're like, great. And it was just an hour of two women just being open about body image. body issues and how we felt in all the different ways and our past eating disorders and things like that. You know, when we had E.D. Falco on, it was an opportunity for me to hear how she perceived me during that time. And it was just the most beautiful healing, lovely conversation. We have Martin Short on.

And it's 60 minutes of him and Christina laughing and reminiscing. And at the end of it, I can look at Christina and go, you just had an hour remembering who you are. And MS does not define you. and you are still that funny, hilarious, loved actress. So it runs the gamut, you know. It's really kind of all over the place and specific and not specific. It's just you're really listening in on an intimate conversation between her and I

that has not a lot of planning going into it. I love that. Yeah. I think that that's actually one of the coolest things in this line of work. What we get to do is really, you just. just get to follow a thread and be curious about it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think I went to India with Ryan, our friend Ryan, last year, to shoot this documentary.

And we lived at this ashram. And the main takeaway and the thing that just kept getting repeated from all the beautiful people that we met there is just stay curious. Just stay curious about everything, about life, about circumstances. about people, about yourself, it's really, it's really, it's really the key to life. Yeah. So when you think about that, you know, all of these lessons you've learned and this 20 plus years of this layer of yourself being part of your experience, your family, your work, you know, all of it, when you look out from this place that feels like you're in so much flow

and like you're in such a beautiful position, what, when you think about, I don't know, the rest of the year, say what feels like your work in progress right now? I am loosening my grip on life. I used to feel, especially, you know, in our career, in our industry, like you feel like you want to control as much as you can because you have so much little control.

Yeah. And I'm just loosening my grip. and I want to just kind of trust what's going to continue to come in and out. And when an opportunity rises, I will work hard like I always do and I will show up in the way that I need to. But just knowing that what is meant for me is meant for me and what's not is not. And I have that community and that safety net around me. And I'm just this season of life, it's the worst my body has ever been, but the best that I have ever been. and I feel it's crazy that I'm also the happiest I've ever been in that moment.

And it took a lot of work and a lot of, like, not work. Do you know what I mean? A lot of work and a lot of trust and a lot of letting go. And I'm just really grateful for it all. I'm so happy to hear that. Thanks. Thank you for joining me today. Oh, thank you for having me.

It's so nice to talk to you. This is an I-heart podcast.