Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

It's a podcast crossover! Real-life besties, former "Grey's Anatomy" co-stars, and "Call It What It Is" hosts join Work In Progress! In this fun chat, Jessica and Camilla share their journey into acting with Sophia, including their audition experiences for "Grey's Anatomy," the inside scoop on why Jessica was … not a fan of Camilla initially, which one of them auditioned for "One Tree Hill” but never got a callback, and their work in progress! Listen to part two of the conversation on Call It What It Is —out now! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, Whipsmarties. This is a very special episode because it is actually not only a crossover of podcasts, but a crossover of this podcast. and TV. Today we are sitting down to have a conversation with Jessica Capshot and Camilla Ludington to talk about Grey's Anatomy, me going to work on Grey's Anatomy, and I'm also going to go visit them on Call It What It Is, their new podcast. Camilla and I have not worked together on the set

of Grey's, but we have crossed paths in the Breezeway, and it is such a fun set to be on. She is an icon. Dr. Joe Wilson is this vulnerable, strong, funny character. And that's because of Camilla. And not only does she do amazing work on Gray's, do you all know that she embodies Lara Croft in the Tomb Raider video games? From animation to the screen, she's just an incredible performer and happens to be one of the most fun humans to be around at work. And Jessica Capshaw, an icon, Dr. Arizona Robbins, come on. She starred on Grey's Anatomy for nine seasons, happened to work with my best friend from my first show, The Inimitable Hilary Burton, and has starred in some of my favorite series in films,

from Hulu's Tell Me Lies to Netflix's The Holiday, the L-Words, Bones, The Practice, Blind Trust, and more, she is a chameleon and at the same time, one-of-a-kind. And the two friends have teamed up from the halls of Green Sloan Memorial to your podcast feed to launch their new show, call it what it is. As real-life besties, they navigate the highs and lows of life together. From distress signals to successful moments, big and small, these two are there for each other. And on their show, they'll tell us what that looks like. From a thousand pep talks, a million I got yous, some urgent I'm Coming Overs, and more,

laughing through the tears and problem-solving over glasses of rosé sometimes tequila whatever floats your boat they know life can get even crazier than a season finale of gray's anatomy let's dive in with jessica and camilla We've had so much coffee. Oh, my goodness. It's a situation. We could be in the ER actually at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I set my alarm this morning for six because I was like did the trick where you get ready before the kids are up.

And then I just magically appear in the kitchen. This time I actually really did do it where I got breakfast ready. And then I felt like I was like in the Dolly Parton song where I was like working 9-5. You got on the train with all the commuters, got into Grand Central. Came up and got ready. here at I Heart. Yeah. I love that so much. Well, the irony is that I'm now talking to you from L.A. because I've been working on Grace. I know. I can't wait to dive into that. I know. It's so fun. Okay. I have a question for y'all because I normally like to go backwards before we catch up in

present day. Did you both know you wanted to be actors? Like, did you grow up little theater babies? or did you have totally different plans and now you've made the world's most iconic television show? I knew I wanted to act from a super early age. I was four years old and I watched The Wizard of Oz

and I knew that I wanted to be Judy Garland, not Dorothy. And my parent, nobody in my family were actors at all. And my mom thought I would turn into this stage brat and she was like, that's not what you're doing um and then i just loved it so much that i think that i like sold her on the idea and um was doing theater really young so like little you know community stage

productions at like you know nine 10 got my first first agent when i was 11 did theater studied at italia conti then came to new york and then eventually ended up in los angeles and doing you know auditioning for one tree hill and not getting it by the way did not get that job

not happy about it we blew it yeah well I really wanted to because you guys filmed in Wilmington right North Carolina

and that's where Dawson's Creek filmed and I thought that this was my Dawson's Creek moment because it was like

the show that I loved and then I don't even think I got a call back oh no it's okay and then

here I am with you lovely ladies You're promoting all the things. Yeah. I grew up. Totally different story. Totally different story.

I grew up as a little one very, very shy. And I don't know that I ever dreamed that I would be bold enough to tell a story, but I always had a lot of stories in my mind. And the bulk of my acting was done with myself in the bathroom mirror. I would imagine circumstances. and then I would, you know, act them out. And then I was surrounded by the world of acting. My mom was an actress, and we were on the road all the time.

So I was on film sets from when I was five, six years old. And then I think that I fought it. I was kind of like, that's too predictable. That seems like, you know. And I remember, I just remember seeing other people that were daughters of going out to the world and daring greatly and being totally just, I mean, this was before, I mean, I don't know if people think nepo babies are cool or not. I still sort of don't understand the complexity of that, but it seems like it's a positive, negative thing. Like, there's

attention for it, but at the same time, there's, there's questioning of merit and integrity on some level. And that was happening in my world. So I was a little bit like, I don't need to put myself out there and be bad. That just needs to not happen. And so, So in very typical Jessica Kapshoff for M, I vetted myself with all the acting teachers I could find. I want to wait a summer camp. I was like, but no, but am I good is what I wanted to know at the end of summer camp when I went to... We still want to know that, right? We're still waiting to find out.

We still don't know. We still haven't decided. I don't think that ever goes away, does it? No, that's what I'm saying. No, no. I feel like it never goes away. Also, by the way, there's some people who do think you're good and some people who think you're terrible. All you have to do is go on the internet. Internet is a terrible place.

No, it's a very dark worldwide web. Yes, that's true. No matter how long we do this, you know, they'll call cut. You'll look at your coworkers and be like, well, that okay. And as long as the people you're acting with think you're great and vice versa, the internet can crawl in a hole and die there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember lots of times after takes, the director would say, you know, sort of like a compulsory thing. They'd be like, that was great. That was good moving on. And I would always sort of pause and look at whoever I was with and be like, I'm not really shooting or aiming for good. Can we go? Like, could we? How do we? How do we? There's that sort of like work ethic piece of me that wants to keep going. And then you went on a network show and you realized, no, we're going to move on. Yeah. We're just going to move on. Or the difference being your first season and your life. where you're like, and we can go. I'm so curious about this because, you know, Jessica, you joined Gray's in 2009.

Camilla, you joined in 2012. And in the same way you talk about, like, not getting, you know, One Tree Hill. I think about all of the shows. We've all auditioned for, all of the jobs you want to get. And most of them, you don't. Like, when you're a successful actor, what do you book? 3% of all your auditions or something? What was it like to join a show like this?

Because people will ask me about my show, and I'm like, we didn't know anything. We didn't know how long we were going to be on. By the time you stepped into Grays in both of your respective seasons, like the show was such a juggernaut. Was it a different experience to go up for the job, audition for the job, show up on set? Like, what is that journey like for both of you? My story was a little nuanced in that I had been a huge fan of the show, like appointment television, watched it on the night. And then it wasn't until the fifth season that, or maybe no, maybe the fourth where I auditioned. And I went in, I literally had a baby two weeks prior,

but my agent called me and said, there's this part. And she said, I know you would, I know you don't want to go out for anything, but I know you would also kill me if I didn't tell you that there's this part coming on. And I said, you're right. I am. So I, like, I mean, I tidied up real quick. And I hofted over to. Did you mean hoof it? Huffed it over to those studios. Is that an expression?

Yeah, I used my hooves. And ran over. And I was like, hey. And I showed up in the casting office. And I did everything that I could to get the part. And I didn't. And then maybe about a year later, there was another part. And I thought, well, now this is going to be it.

And I went in and I auditioned and I didn't get it. And then my agent said, but they really do like you. I'm like, yeah, they don't like me that much. And they sort of stayed on them. And lo and behold, we got a phone call that, you know, there's this part. It's a three, it was offered a three episode arc on the show. And when I came on, I was still just a fan. I came on as a fan and I was acting, but I was like looking around and just sort of

wanted, I was like simultaneously wanting to do something really great and at the same time just like blend in so no one could get rid of me. And that's what I did. And then it just sort of went on to another episode and another episode. And then that was throughout the entire fifth season. And then I was brought on as a regular in the sixth season. Right. That's what happened, Sophia.

Nod, Nod, Wink. Yeah, three episodes. Tell me. Yeah, yeah. And then you're stuck with us. Yep. For me, the journey was a little bit different. I had never auditioned for it before.

But I had just tested for a pilot of Shaughness that didn't end up going. It was one called Gilded Lilies. And yeah, I went to network And it was between me and another girl And I didn't get it. And then I ended up on True Blood And True Blood finished. But I had to go to Comic-Con

because I play Lara Croft in all the video games. Well, in three of the last three video games. So I went to Comic-Con on the Friday And I got a call on the Thursday saying Shonda Rhymes wants to put together a new intern class. Can you come on tomorrow to audition? And, you know, now they can't do it. But it was like literally, you know, the last minute like,

hey, you have a bunch of sides the night before and you got to come in the next day. And I couldn't make it. So I was like, damn, I can't believe I missed that. And then I was still at Comic-Con for the weekend. And then I got a call saying they can't find this one part. Would you come in on the Monday? And I was like, I can make that. So it was between me and about six other girls.

I went in. I auditioned for Shonda. She was there. And then I was the first one in. and they asked me to stay behind, which is always, you know, is a good sign. And then one by one, the other girls left

and it just ended up being me. And this should be good. This is me. And then I found out that it was between me and another girl in New York and then about four days later, I was on set.

And it was super intimidating. You're absolutely right. Super established show. Very intimidating. But I was to say something about that, which is that I, for me, and in my experience, coming on the fifth season of the show,

it was a huge success. And it's actually an even bigger success now. So when I was there, people were still chasing like, what were the ratings last night? People were still talking about what the ratings were like. People were still talking about the ad dollars. People were still talking about very quintessential how we've made television for the past 50 years type of mindsets, right? It was not super expansive. It was only starting to, you know, social media was taking hold and there were conversations happening between shows or characters

on shows or people on shows and the outside world. And then the most magical thing of all that came along was streaming. And so what I saw in the 10 years I was there was this explosion of this show becoming multi-generational and its watchers and its viewers and it's whatever the right word is for that. But people watching it and then watching it again. So when you say you're coming on to a juggerna, it's like it was to me. I mean, it was my dream come true to come on to the show. show. And it became even bigger. So it's wild to me to sort of look at it now and just see the presence that it has. And again, just like the, you know, the mothers and daughters that come up and say, you know, or people who got into medicine because of it. Even the last two weeks

where I got some something that says we're in the top 10 of screaming worldwide. Yeah. Wow. Which is insane. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. It's. It's. It's. such a cool thing to be a part of. I went to the table read last week for this latest episode. And, you know, first of all, like, so cool to see everyone there. It's 21 seasons in. The bar is so high. Everybody loves each other. Everybody's laughing. Everybody's giving this thing there all when they could be coasting. And, like, Debbie Allen goes to walk by and I'm like, hi, Debbie. Hi, I'm Sophia Bush. I just want to introduce myself. And she grabs me by the hand and goes, girl I know who you are and I was like yeah yeah and she started laughing at me and I was like I just

gasped in Debbie Allen's face am I okay yes yeah wrong with me and everybody was giggling and I just was like whoa this is this is a really surreal experience and it's so cool that you all it's just so cool what you all have built it's really beautiful I love and I love what you said which is exactly how I feel when you're in our table reads you're can tell and then this happens on set. Nobody's phoning it in. Everyone's still 21 seasons in, giving it their all. We genuinely love our characters and we're especially in this climate right now so appreciative of just the work. And there's, I don't work with anybody that's kind of blasé about it. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too.

Do you guys remember the first day you met on set? Do you know the story? No. Do you know that we didn't like each other? Stop. It's true, Sophia. I know you're looking at me thinking, how could you not love me instantly?

But Jessica did not. Jessica did not like me. What did she do? Exactly. There's a story about something I did. Can I tell it or are you going to tell it? Well, I mean, I think it's your turn to tell it. But also at the, I mean, we can completely tell the story.

I think that the real takeaway is that, um, you've got to give her the juice, though. Don't just give her the takeaways is that now you love each other. No, that's not the takeaway. Okay, what's the takeaway? The takeaway is that you need to be a flexible thinker. Wait, who was the inflexible thinker? Me. Okay.

Okay. I really appreciate that. Yeah. I. There we go. I mean, Sophie. Okay. So I had been on the show for, I guess, like two or three seasons.

And I had had my baby girl. And I came back to work really right away. And I think that I was dealing with a ton of different things that some others feel as well or not. Who knows? I was like not in my body. I was super like insecure about all things. I mean where your brain is and like was I going to remember lines and did I look the way that I wanted to look and did I could I show up and not have my mind somewhere else and just like all the things about like when you go to say like when you tell work like I'm going to go have a baby but you have this weird thing that kicks in at some Pavlovian response to old cultural tropes which is like but I can still do my job like I'm going to have a baby but I'm to be exactly the same. I'll still be able to do my job but you're like oh wait no. I'm actually not at all the same person and I can still do my job, but how I do my job might be a little bit different.

And I'll need to go a little easy on myself. And I was not yet in that mindset. I was not going easy on myself. And I think what we all know is that when you're not going easy on yourself, you likely aren't going easy on others. Isn't it interesting how that works? A-ha moment. So social media had just started, which I think I also was a little bit, weary of like oh you can just be captured in any moment people can say things about you not say

things about you blah blah blah anyways um camilla and i were working together it was a large scene we were all sitting around the cast chairs um we did not know each other very well she was she loves this part gorgeous and fun and had this contagious laugh and everyone was so excited to work with her Yeah. And, Shonda Rimes had gotten a food track with burgers and I had gone out to go get one and we were all sitting around. Can I tell the story from here? I mean, sure she can.

I'd like to take over. Please, Sophie, if I may. Yeah, sure. I was sitting, gorgeous, stunning, mining my own business in my cast chair. Glowing. And I, Shonda Rimes got a food truck. She got a burger truck. I thought, I'll go outside, and this is great.

I'm going to snap a picture and I'm going to tweet it and say, thank you, Shonda, for the burger truck, right? I mean, I'm still recurring, I think, at this point, right? So I'm like, I know, got to be thankful, grateful, you know, it's a polite thing to do. I snapped a picture. I did the tag. I put it on Twitter, and I sat back down on my seat.

Not thinking about anything else. This monster comes storming in. The story gets bigger every time she tells it. The stormin does get exaggerated every time. This volcano came in erupting, and she was like, who posted the picture? And what I truly did not know, truly, is that she was in a sliver of the picture to the side was just like Capshaw, motoboting like four burgers.

And like, I did not know. I thought I was taking a picture of the truck. I didn't know that you had like the family bucket of fucking. shots of burgers. She's doing one shot. It's just took one. She was doing burger shots and I posted it. And she thought it was pure sabotage.

I thought it was burger sabotage. And she was taking me down. Yes. And I really, so I deleted that so fast. And it was icy that first season. Which is. It was terrifying. But also.

Terrifying. Completely confusing because. I'm not an icy person And you don't have to You don't have to meet me I mean I would like to know any other person That would describe me as icy

So I don't know I wouldn't describe you as icy now But long story short We hate each other, Sophia Great And then how did you become best friends Because clearly now we're here Yeah

We're here Well after that incident I imagined a bunch of things About who she was She probably imagined a bunch of things that I was. We told ourselves that story on a loop. And to both of our defenses, there were multiple people around us that would say to each of us, like, no, she really is so great. I swear, she really is. And so those seeds have been planted. And then we'd organized a dinner. We shared a bunch

of mutual, you know, cast and crew friends. We'd organize a dinner before a rap party. To all go to and then go on to the party together. And people, a bunch of people couldn't make it. They canceled on us. Yeah. That's how popular we were. Just us. Did you guys wind up on a date? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love this. Yeah. It was a sexy Hollywood off Hollywood Boulevard date. It was a Katsuya Brentwood sushi date. Yeah. It was Hollywood. Was it Hollywood? I remember being in Hollywood. Right on Hollywood and Oh, you're right. No, no, no. It was. It was Hollywood. And then we were forced to reconcile. But then we just loved each other. Yeah, we did. I love that. Then it was done. All done. And then I was just, yeah. And then I think, I think that you know when you're on um shows like you can you can get along with everyone you can burger shop i don't know why i still got it yeah um and you can and you can and you can respect people and you can you know be able to work with them and everything else um and friends even but then there's like just certain people that you are like got it like i get you you get me

and i and and yeah and i think that that that that happened and then it really was like and time again, we showed up for each other because I would love to say, and I don't think it's inaccurate to say that being on these shows is a dream come true. And what can also be true is it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work and it's really hard. A lot of ups and downs. A lot of challenges, a lot of different personalities. Yeah. And you don't think about the fact that there's, there's so many different worlds conspiring to make it happen, right? And so you're, you know, everyone's on a different journey but it's all for the same goal

and so it's like you don't know what people are going through and you don't know you have no idea what's going on with the challenge that Crafty's dealing with today or like you know the art directors that you know haven't gotten you know notes two hours ago that they're trying to make happen you know like this

and you know where the UPM's head at is when they've already you know they've just found out that they need to make something magical happen and so you know not every day is easy as a matter of fact it's It's work, you know. And to be in that kind of environment and know that you have, you know, a couple people that you can go to and be and have an inflexible mindset and not have them, you know, off with your head. Honestly, because some of those days, you know, where you just feel raw.

Yeah. And you just need to knock on that trailer door and just spill it all. And know that it's not going to also go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And be unreasonable and have a temper tantrum and go boneless and cry, scream at the sky, you know, and have it actually be of no import five minutes later.

It's just needing to be something that you need to like get out. Yes. But I think it can be really hard because what you're really talking about is it's like the family dynamic, right? Where you can get in a fist fight with your sibling and then 20 minutes later your best friends again. there is this kind of like deeply intimate familial experience you're having when you're on a set but you're with strangers but you have to relate to each other almost like a family because you have to keep things really high functioning but you also can't risk a fight or a misunderstanding because then it'll derail the ship for not just the cast but the whole crew so what I think

my friends and I have realized over all the years we've grown up together is that we spent a long time feeling like we were kind of in tandem. Like maybe we're so super close or maybe we're strangers. And then we were like, oh no, there's best friendships and complexity. And sometimes you want to punch someone. But if anyone from outside the family said anything about anyone inside the family, even the people you might want to punch today, then you would punch the person outside. Like it's a crazy dynamic. And I think to your point, when you start to understand how to have really respectful acquaintanceships and then find. like your real best friendships and everyone can love each other. It's like you've, you've

sort of won the lottery of humans. So congratulations lot of winners. You did great. No, it's so I agree with you. And it's, it's, it's such a hard thing to describe for people that have not experienced it because also your job is to have chemistry with these people on screen. Right? So it's like maybe there is a day where you're like, I can't even look at this person. And yet then the next moment, you've got to really sell it. And your job kind of depends on selling that you're in this intimate moment, female, male, whoever. And you've got to make it work.

And you can't bullshit it, right? Because you can tell. So that's also just an element that's, I don't know what other job you have to do that sort of specific mind gymnastics, emotional gymnastics, sometimes with. Yes. It's kind of incredible and kind of insane. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, that's all of it.

We talk about this. Yeah. I mean, yeah, and there's just so many different touch points, you know, from when you, you know, from when you wave a load of the security guard to when you're on set to when you're coming home. I mean, I think you probably encounter upwards of 50 to 100 people in a day. You know, it's a lot of all day. More. Yeah, it's a lot of people. Yeah.

Well, we have just been, Camilla and I have been together for seven days straight. Yeah. Yeah. All the way from Palm Beach, Florida to New York. We've been in the countryside of New York. What are you guys doing? Having sleepovers at my house with my family.

We had a convention. No, no. Like a women's, you don't call it a convention? No, like a summit. A summit. We had a summit in Palm Beach. That we also used as like a girl trip. Nice.

Sweet. A little work and play. Yeah. I love that. A little education. Instead of going back to Los Angeles, because I'm not in the current episode, you have just to spoil it for me. Tell me what's happening. I have some things.

I just came, I just went straight. Instead of coming back, I went straight to New York because she lives in the countryside. Beautiful. In the countryside. I love that. And, but her, her, her biggest wish was to watch a holiday. movie with my girls. She was like, can we all put on cozy holiday pajamas and watch a movie? And we did it. And we did it. It was very cozy. Yeah. And she came and watched the girls

ride horses. And they just truly like my eight-year-old who hadn't spent as much time with her because the 14 and 12-year-old will grab my phone and text her and then they'll send each other videos and blah, blah, blah. And the eight-year-old just hadn't had as much crossover. And I was like, I wonder how this is going to work. The Josie's going to, like, I wonder if she's going to feel like she's drafted along. I don't know if the three days will be, what will it be like? And I was putting her to bed the night before Camilla left, and she looked at me with like the super, super sweetest eight-year-old eyes. And she said, does Camilla have to leave tomorrow? Yeah, we have fun. Oh, baby. I felt like I was in little women, Sophia. That's my dream. I was really, it really is like

little women. So cute. It was really cute. Super cute. Listen, I know how to, I have a seven-year-old so I know how to. Yeah, she does. I know how to chill with an eight-year-old. Great. But you know, not everybody does that. I mean, speaking to your point of, like, how you find your people. I mean, and you don't need to. I would be boring if everyone was the same. But it is so beautiful and unique to have a friend come in and be like family and just, I mean, asking questions like really on their level and wanting to actually know what the answers are. And then now we're in the city. I told, oh, I love that. I get it. It's like my, my best friend Hillary from my first show, her little girl is she's mine like we're besties she sends me care packages she draws me pictures

how old is she is about to be six and george is like so yummy and yeah we just are obsessed with each other and then george met my girlfriend and was like sophia will do games with me and ashlin is a soccer player because George started playing soccer this year and she for now from every game she runs by Hillary and is like send this to my girls like on video and I'm like my

girls I die and she'll be like mom are my girls coming over this weekend and I'm just like truly the what it has done to my soul I'm like well I could die happy tomorrow goodbye that's real cute

and now a word from our wonderful Consors. Guys, I almost forgot because basically I just want to talk to you and also make plans to come over for holiday movies. But I do have a question that I actually ask everyone who comes on this podcast, which is what, for each of you, what is your work in progress? Oh, my God. What isn't? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is my work in progress.

Well, listen, I love the question so much because it is so, it almost seems like it's, it's only now really being talked about that this, in this way, right? The two things can be a masterpiece and you can and you can look at the things that you've done well and be proud of them without, you know, running the risk of sounding arrogant. Because we're stepping into a time where it's okay to be able to say, I think I did this really well. And then there's all these other things that are happening at the same time. they're like, I'm working on that. What's yours right now? I'm working on not futureizing with my kids. That's hard for me.

And there's, that's really difficult for me. And I'm trying to be more in the, I mean, everyone says this, I'm trying to be more in the moment. But I have a really hard time thinking ahead always. And often worse. case scenario. And so that's just something that I've done for, yes, that's something I've done for a while. And I, especially when it comes to my kids, I actually think that sometimes it's

not even giving them the benefit of the doubt in not, in theorizing that this is going to go terribly wrong. Like, have a little more faith in this. Yeah. So maybe just also spiritually having a little more faith generally and also not futureizing catastrophe. Yeah. Would be really, I mean, I laugh, but like it's, it's something that I do. And so I have to, you know, in therapy, I learn what story you telling, what else is true. What's really true, you know. And that helps me. But that's, that's going to be my work and progress journey probably for maybe forever. And that's okay. And that's okay. At least I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. What about you? I take questions very seriously, by the way. That's why that long, prolonged pause. That's what I love about you. I would say that I am working on really believing that hope can serve as an anchor and a buoy.

that hoping for things can help you stay super grounded in who you are and also allow for you to want more. Yeah. And that I think is, it seems like it's their oppositional thoughts and forces, but I think that they can come together and be true at the same time. And the weaving in and out of them is really. uncomfortable for me, you know? So that's, that's something that I think I'm working on. I love that. Do we get to ask you that back? Sure. Oh, gosh. I relate to what you talk about

in terms of having a hard time not thinking about the future. And currently the question of hope is hard when I think about the future, but I also, I just believe in us. And so I'm trying to, trying to commit to knowing, recording, you know, being as honest about what's going on around us as possible and still believing in us, leaning on us, knowing that, you know, generations of women who've come before us have fought battles and we're going to fight them for the generations of women that come after us. And in the midst of that, not to forget to be in love with my life because it took me 42 years to be really, really happy and to, you know, look at the kids and the friends and the love in my life and go, no matter what is going on, I'm still so lucky to be right here right now. And that the ability to hold the both and at the same time is my consistent. practice and journey, I think. I really relate to that. Yeah. I relate to that a lot. It's tough.

Yeah. It's tough. But like when you think about, you said, you know, you might be thinking about what could go wrong. A friend of mine was like, every time you ask yourself, or you think about what could go wrong, I just want you to ask yourself, what could go right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's a wild practice. And so that's, that's definitely, you know, part of it for me. You know what's been really helpful to me is so far almost everything I've really worried about, other than one thing, has not gone wrong in the way, like, when it's come to like my family. So my sister, I always think about my sister. She's like, Camilla, we have a track record of being like 99% wrong. So I hold on to that.

I futureize and I'm like, you know what, though? The forecast is probably wrong. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Like I'm a terrible weatherman for my own life. And I'm okay with that because I assume it's going to be cloudy and thunder on the weekend. You know? And I got to lean out of that.

Yeah. It's real tough, though. It's very tough. I know. I know. I see you so optimistic, though. And I think that's... You're very optimistic.

I am. I am. Well, I just feel like I say it all the time because I feel like it's true. It's like everything will be okay in the end. And if it's not okay, it's not the end. Like there's just, I think you just keep going. I think that's what we, what we connect over a lot to is just being people that whether through our childhoods or our adolescents or our adulthoods, like, we just keep going.

Like, if you want someone to get up the hill with, we're going to get up the hill. Yeah. Don't know how. It might not be pretty. But we're going. We're going. We're going. We're going.

Well, ladies, we're going. And I'm clearly coming over for a movie. Perfect. Yes. I love it. Do it. Come on over. Friends, I am having such a good time with Jessica and Camilla.

I am not ready to be done. So be sure to tune in to part two of this hang on their podcast. Call it what it is. This is an IHeart podcast.