Drama Queens - Work in Progress: JURNEE SMOLLETT

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Award-winning actress Jurnee Smollett is a veteran of the big and small screen, and she’s not even 40 yet! The actress started her career when she was still in diapers and won a Critics' Choice award by the time she was eleven years old. Now she’s turning up the heat with her new Apple TV+ crime drama, “Smoke.” No stranger to tackling complex roles, Jurnee joins Sophia to talk about playing a brilliant but troubled detective in her new show, including her prep and research, the behind-the-scenes process of creating a world for her character, and what it was like watching it in front of an audience for the first time! She also opens up about her divorce, early childhood acting experiences, overcoming major working mom guilt, and her relationship with her siblings.  New episodes of “Smoke” drop every Friday on AppleTV+.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. This week, we are joined by an actor who I admire so much. Today's guest is none other than Journey Smalley. She is an American actress born here in New York, one of six siblings, and she has been working in film and television since she was a little girl, known for her roles in Lovecraft Country, Birds of Prey, Underground, and True Blood. She is here to discuss her brand new Apple TV show, Smoke. The show centers around an arson investigator who begrudgingly teams up with a police detective as they race to stop two arsonists. It is a twisted game of secrets and suspicions and journey stars opposite Taryn Edgerton in this incredible thriller.

Today we're going to talk about what it was like to film the show, work with the iconic Dennis Lehane, and a lot about what it means to juggle this life. Performing and acting and traveling and creating with motherhood and self-discovery. and you'll hear a little bit about the lessons the two of us have learned along the way. Let's dive in with my friend journey. Hi, honey. I'm so happy you're here. Hello, my love. How are you?

I'm happy to see you. It's been forever. I know. It's been a long time. You look fabulous. Thank you so much. You look fabulous. This press tour is working.

Oh, well, you know, I got a team of experts helping it work. We need it, especially when you got little ones at home. It's like somebody helped me look like I've slept. Right, right. And then, you know, the press tour, it's almost like you're running a marathon. As you know, you just sit in that room and you get asked a lot of questions. And you've got to make them feel fresh every time. Yeah.

Oh, I feel it. Well, I'm excited about the project. But before we talk about, you know, what's happening in life at the moment, I want to go backwards a little bit. Okay. Uh-oh. How far back are we going? Like all the way back. Okay.

Which is fun for you, especially, because you've been working since you were a baby. But I always wonder, like, when I sit with somebody, whether I know them or I'm just meeting them, whoever sits in that chair has an impressive resume, some cool new project, like something in the world. And I wonder if you could go back in time and hang out with your little self at seven or eight years old. Do you think the woman you are today would see herself in that little girl? Oh, yes, because I actually meditate on that little girl a lot. Really? Yeah, because I do believe so much of what we're doing is in response to our childhood.

You know, and I, I'm one of those nerds who's, you know, I'm reading books on attachment theory and, you know. Oh, me too. Yeah, so you feel me, you know. And so, like, all of the primary attachments we had and the core memories we had during those moments, I think about, you know, just in how I see the world. It's also how I construct characters, you know, when I'm approaching them. in my work, but yeah, that little girl, I mean, she, she was, she was a lot of fun. She was, she was a lot of fun. And there was a lot going on around me when I was six or seven.

How so? Um, okay, so I think around that age, my family, I was, I was doing full house. Or I just finished doing full house and my family had been, I had been offered. by the producers of Full House offered, you know, your seven, to do a spinoff of Full House. You know, my character resonated with folks for some reason, you know, but my pay grade. And so my mom said no to the spinoff.

And she said, I've got six kids. At the time she had five and one on the way. And she was like, I ain't doing no more damn TV unless they're all in the same show because y'all got me running around with all these different kids and I'm trying to be everywhere with all of them. She was very protective,

very hands-on. We never had a nanny or anyone else watch us other than her. And she was stretched thin. And so the producers, Bob Boyette, Miller Boyette,

they said, wait, there's more? Bring them all in. And so they gave us all our own TV show. She had us go into this meeting. That's how that happened. Yeah, she had us go

into this meeting. We performed shut them down by Public Enemy. I was Flav of Flav. Oh, my God. I did the Flav of Flav verse. I don't even know. Maybe I had a clock around my neck. I don't know.

A room full of white men at Warner Brothers. And she had us perform this very militant song. And they gave us our own TV show, all six. Even the baby that was baking. in the oven. Oh my God. This is amazing. Yeah, so there was a lot, a lot going on around me, a lot of excitement during that time, a lot of newness. For the first time, like, we moved into a house that was really nice. I remember that, you know. So, yeah, that's that snapshot of my life during that time. Wow. And did you love it? Did you love acting, performing even from a

young age? I always did. I was always performing at home. My mom loved musicals and old films. Sound of music probably was on repeat throughout my childhood. American in Paris. You know, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Sid Chorice. I always wanted to be Sid Chorice with those long legs, you know. And so she would put down plywood on the floor in our apartment in Elmhurst, Queens. And she got me some tap dance shoes.

me and my brother Jesse would just tap dance all the time to these musicals so I know I always loved the art of performing and that exchange that you get when you're performing for someone right you know well it's so interesting because especially I think for a kid learning any skill like that that really puts you in your body it gives you a sense of agency really early you know you understand that you are capable to similar to sport and I liken it to sports too yeah I liken it to little league yeah absolutely little league a YSO like whatever it is I think what we know that maybe folks who don't work in this industry might be a little misled about is that when you are an actor or a performer a musician you know whatever you do like you're part of a team you're in a cast you work with a whole big crew of collaborators yes Like it's team sports and you've got to learn how to support the team but also stay in your lane. You need to be able to fill in for somebody if you're, you know, not able to do their job one day. And so I don't know.

I think it's pretty cool to hear about how early you were finding yourself in that work. I completely agree with your perspective on it. And it's funny because I find myself gaining so much inspiration from sports, from athletes. I watch it religiously. My son now has taken the sports obsession to a whole other level. But I gain, and I always have gained inspiration from the way athletes push their bodies, how mentally tough they are, the way they have to work with other personalities and collaborate. And the flow that athletes have to be in, you can, when you're watching a tennis match,

you're watching Coco, right? And you're just like, ooh, she's in the flow right now. Right? That's what we try to achieve on set or on stage. You know, you try to find that rhythm. It's like a musician, you know, a jazz band. Yes. They're improvving. They're in tune with their partner.

You know, the pianists can't go too far off without being in vibe with the basses, right? Right. So there is something about that dance that you have to be in with the cameraman or camera woman, right? Like the, with your fellow actor. It's very true. And I love that you, you have that same experience. Yeah, totally. And I think there's something really interesting too. All these little connections are firing in my brain, like you talking about the way you love to research, you know, for roles, but also for yourself as a person, you know, reading books on attachment theory, figuring out as an adult where your patterns come from from your childhood like i think that's

especially important for anyone who's a performer whether you're a performance artist or a performance athlete because you do learn to push yourself to extremes you do learn to put the work above all else and eventually you have to come to terms with at some point in your life like oh i'm so good at performing, I might not be feeling. And I got to figure out how to recalibrate that. Or it might be only allowing myself to feel when I'm performing. Oh, that. Yeah. And it's interesting, not that I want this conversation to be about this topic, but I just hear something in you that something in me recognizes. And I'm like, I don't know if it's when you've built your whole beautiful life. you realize you're not happy. I think there's a wisdom that comes when women take up their agency

and go through a divorce as we both have. Yes, we have. And I'm like, oh, whatever the thing is that I've really learned through this construction and then deconstruction process, I see in you. I see in you. And I know it's hard, but not to be cheesy. I'm like, I'm proud of us. We've clearly done some work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm proud of us, too, because it takes courage to say, I actually need more. And I want more. I deserve more.

Yeah. And society doesn't always hold space for those of us who feel that we're entitled to more. Yeah. Because it's like, well, you got this, this, and this. Sit down, shut up, be happy. Like, what you complain about, right? And so it does take a lot of courage to say, I know what my worth is. And I know what I deserve to receive in return.

So it's a risk. I don't know if I'll actually get it in this lifetime. But I feel that it's, I'm worthy enough to try. To try. That part. Yeah. And I don't know if, you know, I don't want to project my experience onto you, but I think especially when you do the kind of work that requires so much of you

and you do show up in big ways. in big spaces, when you know what a high bar you have forgiving and you realize that bar is not being met in return, I actually think it's a really brave thing to say. It's not about entitlement. It's not about, it's not even necessarily about that deserving, right? It's about I believe that I'm worth what I give. And if someone doesn't, you know, how do you let that person be the closest person to you in your life? You can't.

And that could be a toxic relationship. That could be your coworkers. That could be your agents or your lawyers, right? You know, I've found things like that have actually shown up and manifested in several different ways. Sometimes I find like, ooh, it's so hard for me to let go of people past their exploration date.

Mm-hmm. It's really hard to just go. Oh, it's so hard. Oh, this relationship has actually run its course. Mm-hmm. That was very hard for me. It's still hard, but it's less hard. I've gotten, I've walked it out enough, you know,

to be able to detach. But in studying attachment theory, I noticed my patterns were the inability to detach, you know, and go, wait, why is that, like, what was that, you know? And you do do your own self a disservice because not everyone is built for a lifetime walk with you. Sometimes it's a season or it's a reason. Or it's a lifetime. Or it's a lifetime. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too.

I had to really think about that a lot because I realized, and it's weird, right? There's something you can love about yourself, and also it can hurt you. Like, I don't like to give up on people. But sometimes that means I'm trying to hold. on to something that no longer exists. Do you feel that it's holding on to a potential? Like believing the potential and maybe not? Sometimes.

And sometimes I think it can be really, I think there's a difference between dreaming with someone and the dream being attainable in this life. You know, I really did a lot of work around, what do I want the future to feel like? What do I want a family to feel like? what do I want to build? Yeah.

And then I built it. Right. But I realized, like, I almost felt like I built a house, but the house was empty. Mm. You know? And. It wasn't a home. Yes.

It was a house. And it was great. It was like a Pinterest, Pinterest perfect house. Yeah. But I think particularly, again, as performers and also as women, like, at least for me, I can see all that stuff. I can see the attachment theory. I can see what I learned that was good and bad from my parents in their relationship from generational family stuff. I can see what I took from societal messaging and I can go, oh, I get why I really tried to be as like responsible as possible

and make this plan. But if the if the plan is hollow, if the house is empty, like, don't you want to go fill it? And so I don't know. I think I think there's a really important shift that's happened. Certainly, I really see it over the last decade. Like, we could have this conversation, you know, over a bottle of wine with friends. Over the last decade, I've seen far more people. And I think it had a little to do with me too. You know, far more people say, these things are not right at work. And then a lot of people, once they started talking about the right and wrong in their life, we're like, oh, I might actually have to talk about my life also. If I only center work and I don't center my life, what am I doing? And so I always think

it's interesting when us artists hit whatever point we hit where we realize, oh, I have to pour into myself, the way I pour into my work, the way I pour into my characters, the way I pour into my people. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it's a deeper resonance, that desire to model worth and what you deserve and the right kind of life because you're also doing it for your son. Yes. The stakes are definitely higher. I find after having a child

who learned so much more from your choices than what you say to them. He learned so much more from how I move through life, how I deal with disappointment or sadness. By watching you. By watching me. He learned so much about work ethic by watching me. he has now these goals and these ambitions

and he'll it's beautiful because he relates it back and he kind of mirrors himself to me he's starting to do that in ways that I was like oh my gosh like I don't know why I thought and it probably is my own bias

but I thought like oh if I had a daughter they would probably mirror but no I mean like he looks at me and it's like small things you know like he wants to get a six pack so he's like mommy teach me how to get a six pack you know like but but he's

yeah he watches my behavior a lot and is influenced by that so the stakes are yes way higher now and and I feel like the greatest gift I can give him is being my whole self

Alfred Woodard long ago gave me this book called Whole Parent Whole Child and it's a beautiful book. I'm going to write that down. And it talks essentially about that of you cannot be able to pour into your child and raise them to be their full best self if you, yourself or not. Yes. There is a stat.

A friend sent me a video that actually said that the highest predicting determinator of an adult's happiness is how happy their mother was. I've read that someone. Childhood. Yes. I've read that somewhere. That's major. It is major.

Because you know what? I found very early in Hunter's childhood, I was dealing and struggling with major mom guilt. You know, I'd nursed him for three years. I gave birth to him in my bathtub. I was like, yo, I'm a dude. Like my mom was, she gave birth to all six of us now. childbirth, you know, nursed us, believed in extending, extended nursing. And so like a lot of her philosophies and her standards, right, I was holding myself to. My mom's situation was so

different. Yeah. And very unique, right? She didn't have to ever have someone on set with us watching us because she was behind the camera and we were the ones in front. Right. And so in my situation, I'm the one in front. It's reverse. And so I'm going, well, you know, I want Hunter on set with me. I'm nursing. He refused a bottle because he got he got hype to it, right? He got smart

to, he got hip to the fact that, okay, like around six months, I remember, it was like, okay, if I take this bottle from my aunt, that means mommy might go to Target. So he started boycotting the bottle. Right. Smart.

Really smart. He was like, oh, I see how I'm going to get the cuddles I want. He's like, I'm not doing this. She's not passing me to auntie or uncle or to daddy. It's going to be her. I want directly from the source. Yeah. You know, and so he started refusing the bottle.

And so, you know, me shooting Lovecraft Country or Birds of Prey doing stunt rehearsal, he's right there, you know, in the trailer or at rehearsal. And I had to have help. And I felt so much guilt about the fact that. that like, oh my gosh, I got to go and do this scene. It's a really emotionally challenging scene. So for the next hour or so, I need him to stay in the trailer. He can't come on set because he can't see Mommy like that, right? And you need to focus.

And I need to focus. You need to do your work. Right. I need to do my work. But I dealt with a lot of mom guilt that wasn't processed. And I didn't really know where to put it. And it really was that philosophy of that book of, giving yourself the approval to feed into your well, to do your, to pursue your passions,

to take the bath where you need to take the bath, to go to Target when you need to just have alone time, right, or whatever that thing is, giving yourself the approval to do that, knowing that if you don't, you will run out of gas and that doesn't help him. And that helps no one. That serves no one. there's no Mommy Olympics, there's no award that you're winning at the end of the year for sacrificing. Yeah, exactly. And it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. You need to have endurance in order to be present with him and play with him. And it's okay. You know,

it's okay for him to see me pursue my dreams. It's actually a beautiful thing for him to see the sacrifice that I make for my work and how hard. I work. It's okay for him to see the image of a woman being the breadwinner. It's okay for him to see me being ambitious and passionate and going baby. You know what? Right now, mommy has to go in this room and I have to study this scene. But when I finish, I'm going to come out and we're going to play catch. Right. Like giving him those boundaries and the parameters I think is healthy and I've had to process and give and be kind to myself over the past few years because of course there's moments where he's like no why I want you like kids you know of course

and there's sacrifices that my work requires that he make yeah but there's also a lot of benefits that he he gains from from what mommy does and the kind of life I can provide for him the travel that he's he's been able to be a part of I mean like Like, he went to the Steve Irwin Zoo in Australia. Hello? Got a private tour. Got to pet a rhino. DJ the rhino.

He got to pet. You know, like all these experiences. He got to meet Steph Curry last year. Hello. Okay? Yeah. And so as he gets older, he's slowly starting to appreciate what I do and actually find respect for it and gratitude. And that is a real muscle that I'm trying to.

strengthen in him, which is hard in kids. And it's hard in kids who grow up with a lot, you know, to understand that, yo, to whom much is given, much is expected, right? So, like, we got to give back. We got to go and volunteer. We got to, we got to do all these things because look how blessed we are, man. It makes me think about something, what a crazy sentence I'm about to say. I don't know, a month and a half ago, I think. We had Michelle Obama on the pod. My drop. I know.

Just your shoulder off. I was literally like, what is happening? And I asked her about motherhood. And she said that her mother had this phrase that, you know, has echoed for her whole life. I'm not raising babies. I'm raising adults. Amen. And that thing to give your kid evolving agency as they evolve, to show them.

to show them how you move in the world as an adult, as a responsible parent as a dedicated worker, as a volunteer, as a human that, for you, your little boy always knows he can come to. Like, that raises a generation of adults. And I think about, at least for me, you know, my parents didn't know any of the stuff we know now about how to raise babies, how to talk to them,

what to do for them. They didn't have the language or the tools, yeah. And a lot of the research wasn't done yet, you know, all the things. And I think about the learning and the unlearning that our generation has had to do. Unlearning is very key. Unlearn a lot.

A whole lot. Oh, boy. And I just think about, like, how cool our kids are going to be when they're our age because they've just had more research. sources and information and opportunity to imagine themselves in these spaces they see you or us in. Evolution.

It's cool. Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah. And now for our sponsors. Thinking about family and like, you know, the examples we set, you talk about how your mom was the one behind the camera, you know, and it led into this amazing. world for all of your siblings. I mean, six kids and y'all are all in this industry in some

facet. Does that mean? Not all anymore, but at a point all have, yes, yes. When, was that this amazing thing when you got to do this show together? But then as y'all started growing and going out into the world and working in these different arenas, did it almost mean you got to spend less time together as a family? Oh no. Honestly, we were like, we were, we were like a pack, a herd. That everyone went together, you know, like my mom, if one of us got a gig, right, like a movie or a TV show, instead of her flying there, it got to a point where she would ask the studio for the money that they were going to spend on the flights, give her the cash, and she would drive us all there in the suburban. I mean, she was, she was, she was gangster, you know, she was very strategic. She was very smart. but also she had no one to watch us.

It's not like we had a lot of friends or extended family. She didn't have people she could leave us with. And my parents separated when I was 12. And so I have to say, I think that's one of the reasons why I'm so close with my siblings. There's six of us and I have five best friends in them. I mean, I can show you my text threads of like the sibling text chain. It's just, it just, girl, just comes in. Everyone's always talking

Like the conversation is always You know Which is so close But we were all we had You know And if I had an audition Then jazz was doing my hair And Jake was maybe making the omelet

You know And Jesse was running my lines with me Like it was It really was This beautiful microcosm of everyone supporting everyone. There was no jealousy.

There was no competition. It just was not allowed. And everyone was expected to serve the cause, the mission. And it really was, I think, about survival because when you think about it, this became the family business. This became the income.

It became the way we were able to take care of each other. My father and mom separated, like I said when I was 12. He worked for Pacific Bell, AT&T. He was a blue-collar worker. he didn't he didn't make enough to support us and certainly didn't you know give enough child support to support us it became something where it was us kids going out and working and my mom finding us gigs and us live in paycheck to paycheck in a sense

until you know my brothers got older and they started working regular jobs to contribute but you know it it was um i don't even remember what your original question was I feel like I'm going on the tangent. But I love it. I think that's one of the beautiful things about very unconventional childhood. Yes, she was behind the camera. But I learned so much about the industry from her. Yeah. You know, she just was so unwilling to sacrifice certain things and unwilling to sell integrity,

unwilling to just take things because they were paying really good. You know, I was offered a number of jobs that she said no to. That, it was either with someone who was a really awful person. And it would have put me in a very compromising situation or getting me out of a very awful and toxic work environment. And yes, but like I said before, she was behind the camera. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. I mean, it's such a lesson in, you know, business. Yes. And remembering, like, no matter how cool the set is or the job is or whatever, like, it's a business. And I love that, you know, y'all have been able to stay so close. I ask because I think about how much I love what we do, but how often it takes me away from the people I want to be close to. Oh, no, it's so true. It's like yesterday.

My TV show Smoke premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival, which is very exciting. Awesome. It played so well. But it was also the same day of my niece's fifth grade graduation. Yeah. You know? And so everyone's sending me pictures of her. And, you know, I tried to FaceTime.

But yes, that for sure is part of the sacrifices is missing out on how many birthdays. or primary moments, are you missing? Mm-hmm. How did it feel to premiere the show here? That was a full-circle moment. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, in a number of ways. You know, when you work on something for so long

and then it's like your little secret, it's your little baby that you've birthed and then you get to share it with the world. So it was awesome. It was awesome to watch it in front of an audience and get the feedback. And it played incredibly well. You know, it was quite thrilling. Yeah.

Okay. Will you tell our friends at home what smoke is? So smoke is a crime thriller for Apple TV Plus that premieres June 27th, created by Dennis Lehane. one of our premier writers. I mean, I don't know that you can write crime thriller better than Dennis. And I've been a fan of his since Mystic River and, you know, Gone, Baby Gone and Shutter Island and so many. Blackbird, which was on Apple as well. But anyway, it's based on true events in which an arson investigator played by Taryn Edgerton is paired with a trouble detect.

perspective, played by myself, and they are assigned to investigate two serial arsonists, and through this investigation, begin to suspect that each other are not who they claim to be. That's so juicy. Also, crazy fun fact, because when I was reading up on the show, it's centers around John Orr, and back in the day, I played his daughter in a movie with Ray Leota. Wait, what? Yes. So of all the like things we could be talking about today. Oh my gosh.

It was like, I think it was maybe my second job. Wait. I was at USC and it filmed in L.A. And I would drive from class and I would go to shoot this movie. and I was on set with Ray Leota and John Leguizamo, who I just... Who's in our show? Like, come on. Like, this is so...

It's crazy. So I'm so excited to see it, you know, because as a young actor, to think about, like, you know, how do you imagine what this sort of story would do to a kid when this happens in your family? Wow. And now I get to watch my friend be on the adult side. Oh, my goodness. investigating it and I'm just so amped. I know.

That's crazy. I know. It's so fun. Wow. Full circle. Come on. Yeah. It's really, really.

It's so cool. He was an interesting person. Yeah. The podcast, Firebug, that this is loosely inspired by is wild if anyone wants to listen to. I'm like, wait, I want to listen to that. You should listen to it. It's, he was writing a book, you know, about an arson investigator who's secretly an arsonist. And so that element is in our show as well.

But Dennis really has created a heightened and fictionalized version of that. And my character is really the birth child of Dennis's mind. You know, when I met with him, one of the first things he said to, one of the earlier things he said to me was, you know, we all say we want to be happy. And yet, why are we consumed by the very things that want to destroy us? And that's my character in a nutshell. She is metaphorically playing with fire. I mean, there are these elements in her life that are just dangerous that she's drawn to. And it's interesting because I know, I don't know that it's unique to me, but I definitely can see myself and those struggles in the past, right?

Totally. Where you are going, I know this is not healthy for me, but I'm choosing it anyway. Yeah. And I'm hoping that it doesn't turn out how I'm afraid it will. Right. And it does. It's like when your blind faith or your desire to see the good just bites you in the act. Yes. Yes. And that manifests in so many different ways.

It could be a toxic relationship. It could be our toxic level of ambition, being a workaholic. It could be the childhood trauma that we still have in process and the way that manifests. And so Dennis has woven all these very complex layers into my character, Michelle, who's a detective, former Marine, who. finds herself in a relationship with her boss, who's the captain of the precinct, who's married. Oh, boy. Who leaves his wife for her, only for Michelle to then say,

she no longer wants to be with him now. Oh. And going back to attachment theory, you know, I spoke to a therapist just specifically about Michelle. And she's very much so in avoidance. which I'm not You know

I've historically I've been attracted to avoidance Guilty as charge Had a couple of those myself And so It was so fun To weave those elements

Into Michelle Someone who has She has real childhood trauma She has a mother wound A deep betrayal that happened when she was young with her mother and it was beautiful

to be able to weave that in to the way she sees the world the way she attaches and detaches in those patterns Yeah How do you How do you begin to build a world For a character

And I like I want to ask you this question That I like to ask Because I know you're a research nerd And so am I So I'm like, girl, tell me about your practice Like where do you start You know, when you make, when you get this information, former Marine, now a detective, making bad choices, probably a little addicted to the chase, you get this nugget, I would imagine, because Dennis is brilliant about her childhood. Like, how do you begin to build her house?

I begin answering all the whys and the who, what, where, why when. So that's really where I start. You know, what do I know about her environment? What does the text tell me? I fill that in in her biography And any holes that the text doesn't tell me I go to the source Screenwriter, Dennis Lehane in this case Ask him questions, pick his brain Okay, so what happened to her? What is this? Why does she do this?

And all the questions he gives me Any holes left, I fill in myself Through research, through either speaking through experts in this case I spoke to not just therapist, but I spoke to former Marines. I trained with a former, a veteran who served in the military, just had to be an expert in weaponry, honestly, because she deals with guns a lot. I interviewed firefighters and arson investigators. I read the firebug podcast, you know,

watch documentaries, which then leads you to other films of this topic. And, So honestly, it's really about filling up the well. And then I also just have several coaches that I work with. I have a physicality coach. I have, you know, my acting coach. I have my fitness trainer. And for this, I'm normally journey. I can, my weight, I can tend to be a little bit on the leaner side.

And so because she's a former Marine, who is working in a very male-dominated field, who has a little bit of body dysmorphia, who dealt with insecurity from her weight when she was a child. It manifests through her during these crazy intense workouts. So I went to my trainer, Jeanette Jenkins, and was like, I got to put on muscle. I got to put on weight.

And so I put on 15 pounds of muscle before we started shooting. By the end of shooting, I'd put on 20 pounds. crazy way of eating of like eating five meals a day. I was going to say were you just like taking hard boiled eggs to the face? Oh my gosh. And like these protein powders and like the weight gainer shakes and yeah, just eating in between takes and snacking all the time and trying to have a calorie surplus but doing it in the right way and the healthy way as much as I could.

I wasn't eating donuts and doing it like that, you know, which I would have loved. But I also break out. I had to like watch the skin, you know. And yeah, it was, it was awesome to be able to just physically transform and feel stronger. Because that was the goal is okay. Because then you feel like this person. Yes. There's a dominant presence that she needed to have when she walks in a room.

Yes. And, you know, how does she? What's her posture? How does she walk? Like, what's her gait? All those things are affected, you know, when you feel stronger. And, man, Jeanette, she got me, she got me up to, I could do a hack squat, lifting 260 pounds by the time we were done. And she got me feeling incredibly strong. So. That's so cool. Yeah. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. When you think about that, you know, love for research, one of the things I love about the way you speak about your work is that you're never afraid to shy away from real themes that are in it, especially when you're doing a lot of these historical projects, you know, whether it's the order or Lovecraft country.

Like, it offers, I think, the opportunity to share history and even things that are loosely based on history to invite an audience in and to encourage them not to shy away from who we are, from, you know. And how we got here. Yes. You can uncover the things that as a society we often want to tuck away, like in the corner, keep in the dark. Yeah. And how do you kind of layer the historically relevant jobs with your love of process? Like, do you ask, you know, a director to put you in touch with a historian? Or is it very much the similar thing where everything you find in the research leads you to another thing and you're just trying to get as much of it in your brain and body as you can by the time the camera rolls? When I did the order, I did ask them to put me in touch with a few former special agents, which they did. It depends on the project.

And, yeah, who can help me and who's a resource? Production is typically very beneficial in that way and have a lot of resources at their disposal and encourage that sort of research for you. Yeah. But a lot of it is self-motivated and you're right. It is, okay, it could be a YouTube clip that takes you down a path and then that leads you to something else. And it really comes down to the level of curiosity the individual has. And I have an immense amount of curiosity about humanity and what drives us and what motivates us. It just helps me understand my own life more.

And I do think that as part of the reason that I do what I do, storytelling to me and art is essential because it helps us understand humanity. If we understood patterns in history more, I think we wouldn't be where we are today. I agree with you. You know, if we, if more of us knew about, unfortunately, Nazi Germany, right? Like, we would be able to recognize real rhetoric and real talk of a dictator currently, right?

You wouldn't be saying, oh, no, it's not that because it is, and literally the quotes match. Literally match, okay? Yeah. And so I do feel like it's the job of the artist to just tell the truth. And how do you tell the truth? You just do the research, right?

You dig deeper, you ask the questions. Yeah, and you know what you're carrying into the room with you. Yes, exactly. gives you more confidence. I find in the times when, like when I was younger, and I don't know that I had as much technique as I do now. Yeah.

Those moments, I think I can watch the work and go, oh, I see why I was there because I didn't know you had to do this and this and this. You know, but I also have to say I give so much credit to, a lot of the individuals I've actually worked with along my career that I just kind of stole their technique really

like you know asking them questions okay well how do you do this well why do you do this and then going all right I'm gonna try that out what's one of the best answers you've gotten to that question

like from someone you have worked with who you admire what was a oh that's really good I'm gonna keep that great debaters he directed the film that I was in and it was like taking a master class and he a lot of the tools I mean I literally you know when you're working with someone like Denzel you better keep a notebook and literally taking notes every single day of what he says or how he directs me or little nuggets he he gives me

and it was you know him who first told me about this idea of writing a biography for your character knowing everything about your character even down to the kind of sheets they sleep on. What do they eat for breakfast? It helps you think like the character so that on the day, whether you're improvving

or not, having no dialogue, there's something going on in your head. Yes. Because if you're thinking about the boom operator whose shirt is like rising up as they're holding the boom or like Jerry,

you've got to pull that tea down. Or if you're thinking about the fact that the director's eating the donut that you wish you could eat right now but you're not going to do it you know if your if your head is not actually thinking the thoughts of the character the camera will see it you can just get lost and it's and it's it's like a bliss or euphoria yes that you're able to feel absolutely it's it's like a feeling of weightlessness yeah when you're in the flow yeah it's beautiful when you think about that like the joy of what we do being in that flow you can obviously reflect on the people you've worked with

and the sets you've worked on that have continued to build your toolkit yeah do you feel like looking back there is a role you've played that in hindsight you realized changed you in a way that you didn't expect? I really have developed a very spiritual relationship to my instrument. And I really feel that all of them come to me in a moment that I need them the most. In a moment when there's something in myself, I have to exercise through them. There's something that I'm struggling with. There's a pattern I'm in or there's a block, you know, in the pipes.

And so I wouldn't pick one. I think they're all in evolution. And if you pull out one of them, I wouldn't be who I am or where I am today. Right. Even the bad ones. You know, you learn a lot from the bad ones. Totally. And even the toxic environments, dare I say.

I learned at a very early age how to recognize toxicity how to recognize how adults enable toxicity being in environments where it's like you know when you're a child in the industry unfortunately any child is going to be exposed to certain adult behavior

that they shouldn't be and I learned a way of protecting myself and recognizing it And, and so I am honestly grateful for it all. Yeah. And that might, for some people, strike, you know, accord as like odd. But I truly am grateful for it all.

It has created me and it has given me tools in my craft, and my character, and my characters. But like my actual character, it has built my own character, you know? Yes. I feel that too. And, you know, yes, working with wonderful people teaches you where to set the bar, but the toxic experiences I do think are invaluable. Would I wish them on anyone? No. But what it teaches you, you know, I know what to look out for in a way I could not, had I not seen them. the bad side. Yeah. I am a better co-star and producer. Yes.

Because I know what bad ones look like. Yes. Yes. And I do think if you choose to take what you wouldn't wish on someone else and what maybe you wish you didn't have to experience, but turn it into a learning. It can fuel you and it can actually support people around. you in an even better way.

Yes. And that, I just think, is how we figure out how to make lemonade out of lemons, right? Yes. And I really, I feel it's so important for us to lift up the ones who are not that way. I remember I was doing the burial with Jamie Fox. And he is. Who's lovelier than him? I mean, come on.

Come on. The loveliest. The loveliest, generous. I mean, pours into everyone. He produced it along with his producing. partner, Detari Turner, and Foxhole, their company produced it, they made sure that the majority, if not all of the department heads were women. It was a woman director and writer, woman DP, like, I mean, unbelievable set, right? But there was a moment we were doing a scene, and there was someone on set who disrespected a crew member. And Jamie stopped the take. And he gave a long speech about how we will not tolerate anyone, disrespecting anyone. There is no rank.

We are all linked, he said. It was so beautiful to see this man who's, I mean, this man is so talented. He's a freaking alien. He's so talented. But to see him hold everyone accountable in such a gracious and beautiful way, I mean, it was a moment I'll never forget. Like, as great as his performance is in that movie, and it is phenomenal. And I loved, you know, it was a joy to work alongside him. It was that one moment that I will remember the most, though.

That's what makes you love him forever, right? Right. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think. Because it's not just the beauty of what he does. It's the beauty of who he is. Amen.

And it's why he can have longevity. It's why he can have, you know, he's at the top of the game still. right and having done it for decades yeah um and so yeah i i think i think all of the experiences i welcome because it it has taught me and it has made me grow yeah oh i love it well when you think about what's next i mean like you said the you know the show premieres it's like your baby goes out into the world but also it's it's done yeah you know it's finished and then you're on to the next, whether it's a personal thing or a professional thing, like, as you look out at what's coming, what feels like your work in progress? That's really good. I really am on the

vision board, it is about becoming very intentional with stepping behind the camera, producing, directing, ushering forward stories, whether I'm in them or not. I'm, I'm, I don't need to be a little, but like helping to expand the gaze of who gets to tell our stories. Yeah. Who gets to define who we are as women, who we are as others, right? Like I am not interested in continuing to complain about the problem if I'm not going to help solve it. Yeah. And I see that we have come so far in the industry, you know, I don't know that decades ago.

I would have been able to even have the opportunity to play a role like Michelle in Smoke. Yeah. Who is so layered and complex and flawed. Yes. It would have been. Oh, you mean she wasn't described as likable? Girl. Right.

Burn the word to the ground. Right. Right. And that she can be many things and she can make really questionably ambiguous. She can make morally ambiguous choices. yeah right and and she doesn't have to be all knowing or all strong yeah i mean the strong strong women come on i'm over it i'm bored god forbid strong black woman i'm so bored with it just give me flaws yes because flaws are truthful let us be messy let us be messy let us break the law

let us you know run away from the person we should actually be with let us do all the self-sabotage of the world because I want to see myself up there. Yes. I want my niece to see herself up there. I want my friends to see themselves up there. Like, I'm not interested in the girlfriend who has to be the ear for the man's plot being pushed forward.

Right. Right. But I'm also not interested in the robot who's all powerful and all good. Yeah. Because none of us are. You know, so that is my intention is to work with filmmakers and collaborators who push me, who help me grow. I just want to continue to grow and be better. Growing up, my mom always had me reading these biographies of the greats like Catherine Hepburn, me, you know, her autobiography and studying their patterns.

And you're not going to have longevity if you stay stuck and rigid and doing the same thing. How are you evolving and changing? And that's what I'm interested in being a work in progress. I love it. Well, congrats on the show and all the things, really happy for you.

Oh, thank you. I'm very, very proud of you. This is a beautiful platform you have. Thanks. Yeah, it really is. We enjoy it. We got good people over here. Come back anytime.

I will be back. Okay. This is an I heart podcast.