Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Kaitlan Collins

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

It's go time! Election Day is here, and CNN Anchor Kaitlan Collins joins Sophia to chat about what she's hearing from both camps, the gender gap, polls in 2020 vs 2024, youth voter turnout, and what it was like being called a "nasty person" by Trump. Kaitlan also talks about being prepared when things go off the rails, how CNN plans to cover election night, and when she thinks we will know the actual results. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hi, whips, Marties. I hope you're all taking care of yourselves, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, I'm trying my best over here. Tomorrow is Election Day here in America, and today we are joined for. a special episode by one of the most brilliant journalists I know who's going to give us her perspective from inside the newsroom. Today's guest is Caitlin Collins. She is an anchor on CNN. She used to be

the co-anchor of CNN this morning and now hosts the show, The Source. She started as a political reporter at CNN in 2017 covering the White House, and within just a few years, she became the youngest chief White House correspondent in CNN's history. On her show, The Source, Collins chases the facts, asks the tough questions, and connects with her sources so that viewers can get the very latest in prime time. She manages to secure exclusive interviews with political power players, including her recent attention-grabbing interviews with former Attorney General, William Barr, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak,

TOP presidential candidates, and more. In May of 2023, Collins also moderated CNN's live Republican presidential town hall with former President Trump, during which she pressed him on some things he apparently didn't want to be pressed on, and he called her a nasty woman. Today, I'm going to ask her how that felt.

Ask her what she thinks is going to happen tomorrow and this week, and, you know, ask her how she's staying sane in an election season. Let's get to it. I'm so excited to be here and to be doing this. Me too. I feel like people love this podcast so much and the conversations are just so good. And as someone who always tries to have like genuine, fun, interesting conversations,

you should be very proud of it. Well, I am so proud and that really means a lot. And I guess in this moment, I should thank our listeners that are here with us today. because if they didn't show up, we wouldn't be able to do this. So thank you for being here. Thank you to everyone at home. We're taping this obviously a little in advance. It's Friday, but this is going to air on Monday,

which makes my breath catch in my throat. I'm sure it does for you as well. You are so steeped in the news all of the time because of your job. But obviously, we are really, we're down to the wire on the election. Tomorrow's our big day, although thank God we've seen record. numbers of early voting across the country, particularly from women. So shout out to the ladies. Can you give us a little bit of your newsroom perspective and talk about what you're seeing as some of the key trends and the demographic shifts that we're seeing in 2024? Like from where you sit,

is this markedly different from the 2020 and 2016 election? I think it's a lot different because for one, the thing that I've heard from a lot of people I've spoke with, both on the Trump campaign sides and the Harris campaign side is don't look at 2020 as like an indication that you're kind of measuring what's happening right now up against because 2020 was such an anomaly with obviously the pandemic and how differently people were voting. And even the polling. Like I heard a really smart pollster, Democratic pollster say today their polling was different in 2020 because more Democrats were at home. Like obviously everyone was at home during COVID. So more people were answering the phone, which I thought was really interesting, actually.

And so I think like maybe 2022 is a better thing to look at the midterms there, which obviously did not go the way everyone thought they were going to go. They were predicting this huge red wave that did not materialize. And so in the sense of looking at that, I think what I'm most interested in on Tuesday is what the early voting has meant in terms of Republicans, one, because Republicans did not vote really early in 2020 to a great extent because Trump was basically saying you can't trust it and don't do it. And now they realize how much that hurt them. And so they've totally shifted. So a lot of Republicans are voting early. And does that cannibalize, though, their election day vote, which is typically when they have all these people come in and vote in person. So I think that will be different. And then I'm watching the gender gap. I think the gender gap could be decisive in terms of The Trump campaign is very clearly making a play for young men, and the Harris campaign is making a huge play for women. And so is that a game changer on Tuesday? Is the big question, one of the big questions I have looking at it? And I know there's a lot of objectivity are, you know,

required as a journalist. You're not supposed to really bring your opinions to the floor. So if you don't want to necessarily bring them to the podcast, you just let me know. But I guess it's particularly frightening to me when we talk about the gender gap, that the group of young men, as you said, that the Trump campaign, the Trump and Vance campaign is going after, they're going after in this very Andrew Tatified way. They're going after men with really deeply misogynistic messaging, the way they're talking about women, the way they're talking about our lives, our autonomy, our economic value. I mean, the fact that you've got the vice president of the United States of America,

and the former first lady, Michelle Obama, having to get on stage and beg men not to let us die in the year 2024 is, it's so shocking to me, even though given what Trumpism is and what McConnell's been building the GOP into, it doesn't feel surprising, sadly. Is it surreal for you to look at how these messages work from inside of, you know, a news organization? Yeah, well, it's always just, you know, it's like, let's see if this, you know, like bold strategy caught, and let's see if it pays off. Because I think as someone who, you know, has reported, especially since Rovey Wade was overturned with the Dobbs decision, how women have shown up has been amazing to watch in the sense of just, it's like nothing you've ever seen

and no political strategist could have predicted it. And they didn't in a lot of situations. Like, I'm thinking of, you know, in Ohio in 2022, where, you know, they, they had an abortion measure on the ballot. And we saw just how there were voters who were women and Republicans that voted for the Republican candidate, but voted also for this measure to protect the right to an abortion and put it in the state's constitution. That was fascinating to me looking into that and what that looked like. That was more recently, but in the other ones we saw in 2022. you. And so seeing all of those measures since it was overturned has been interesting. I'm curious to see if it's still that energizing mobilization that we'll see on Tuesday. Does it? I've heard from Republicans who think like in Arizona where it's on the ballot that people will still vote for Trump,

but also vote for the abortion measure, which is interesting to me. I don't know if that's true. Like maybe it's just bluster. So we'll all be looking at those numbers. But I think just overall on the on the issue of of the strategy that you alluded to there. Like, it's like the Joe Rogan kind of podcast. Like, they're spending hours doing that. To take three hours to do a podcast in the final week of a presidential election is a big, that's a sign that they think that is going to be their strategy. And I was at the Madison Square Garden rally on Sunday.

That was like this eight-hour, you know, trifecta that started off with that comedian who made the joke about Puerto Rico that now has gotten them so much backlash. And I remember hearing it, and I've been to dozens of Trump rallies reported from a lot of them. And I was kind of, you know, it's kind of a moment where you're like, when you're reporting on news, you don't always know how big it is in the moment. Like, you can feel something as weird. A lot of us were looking around, you know, wondering why there was a comedian on stage at a political rally anyway. And to see how it's blown up since then. But it is part of their strategy.

I mean, they're just going all out for the young, male vote, mostly white, mostly non-college educated. And the question is, is that a demographic that can deliver the White House for him? And the answer might be, yes, their strategy might pay off. But if it doesn't, I do think it'll be a long, hard look for Republicans into, you know, their messaging to women voters, which I think has not been, not been, you know, it hasn't resonated from what we've seen. Well, because, you know, they want to end no. fault divorce, which dropped the death rate of women substantially in America. Women were able to leave abusive marriages, and they think that should end. They don't think we should

have a right to bodily autonomy. And just this week, we've seen two women die in Texas in hospitals of completely treatable and, you know, preventable reasons. It's pretty hard to argue that you're the party of family values when you want to defund education and you don't think kids should get to eat in schools. You know, Tim Walls, one of the things I love about him on the campaign trail is he's like, you think I'm a communist because I want to make sure kids in Minnesota have lunch? Like, really? Yeah, and my mom's a public school teacher for fourth grade.

And that really makes a difference, actually, for families. I come from not a wealthy area in Alabama, a small town, about 38,000 people. And school lunches are like, you know, it's a real issue in the summer because that's sometimes the only meals that those kids get that are consistent that they know they're going to get. So on that note, I think they have a powerful one. But on the women thing, I also have to remember, J.D. Vance just made the comment when he did Joe Rogan's podcast, that he was saying that, you know, states should decide abortions. He's previously, you know, advocated for a national abortion ban.

But he said that he has seen women who are making cakes and celebrating their abortions. And even Joe Rogan said, I haven't, I haven't seen that, like women, like, obviously having an abortion is a deeply personal decision, often a painful one. And you don't know why someone's making that decision. And I, as a young 30-year-old woman, have not seen any, I don't know anyone who's, you know, I'm celebrating my abortion. And so it was just, it was like a very tone-deaf comment as they're still trying to have. appeal to women that was striking to me. Yeah, it's all pretty shocking to me. I mean, it was shocking to me that, you know, quote-unquote comedian also made a joke that he thinks Travis Kelsey will probably be the next O.J. Simpson. And I'm like, I'm sorry. Are you suggesting that Travis Kelsey should unalive his girlfriend?

Because she's a pop star who's voting for your opponent? You know, and then Donald Trump's on the news calling for Liz Chana to be executed by a firing squad. I mean, it's like, I don't really know how much more egregious you need to be to the 51% of the population that you and I fall under. And clearly, we know there's a gender gap as there should be, and I wish more men were appalled by the messaging here. But I also know that the youth vote is a really key demographic in the election. They're incredibly powerful in the political landscape. Historically, young people don't vote in the ways that older people do. And I think it's been really helpful to remind young people like what you want your grandparents to make all your decisions for you. Like what are we doing? What are you seeing about the youth voter turnout this year? What do those numbers look like?

So I'm obsessed with this and we're talking about it tonight actually because they're both targeting different, you know, demographics of the youth vote, but they're both going after them because they are hoping that it'll be different and that they will come out in large numbers. We actually saw a higher turnout from from the youth vote. 2020 than we had seen in a while. But the question, it feels like one of those moments where it's like, it's like with Texas, like people always like, is it going to turn blue or not? And we're always watching it. And it's like Lucy the football. Like it never does. You watch Democrats get so excited and then it doesn't actually materialize. That could actually also happen on Tuesday. So we'll be watching that with the Senate race. But with the youth vote, it always feels like there's such mobilization and like they're there and you see these get off the vote efforts and you see it's happening on Instagram and TikTok and whatnot. And then it doesn't show up because they're

low propensity voters and they don't really show up on election day. They just, they're not driven to go to the polls. And so with the Trump team, this is fascinating because they're counting on those young men to show up on Tuesday, whether or not they do could alter the election. But then with the Harris campaign, you know, I noticed one thing that's been going around on TikTok that you just have to remember how young these voters are. A lot of them, this is their first election. And eight years ago they were like in junior high or in high school and the access hollywood tape is actually having a resurgence on tic talk right now by all these all these young voters who are are seeing it and have never heard it which to me is stunning because like everyone else has it like memorized

because it was such a shocking moment before the election in 2016 it's all these young voters who never like you just have to remember they are they were young when this happened they were like 13 they were paying attention to the news. And so, you know, how does that, you know, shift their opinion, if at all? That's really interesting. Is that amazing? It is. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible.

Do you feel like you have a really good perspective on what the top is. are for the youth vote? I think the youth vote is, it's different. It shifts because like, you know, obviously with older voters, and most voters who are actually likely voters, it's economy, immigration, and democracy is actually higher ranking that I think a lot of people would give it credit for. We saw that in a CNN poll. It was the third ranking issue a few months ago, which was kind of amazing to me because the whole, you know, common, you know, conventional wisdom is that it's nice to talk about, but if you're actually worried about paying your bills, that's not what you're thinking about. But for younger voters, I think that there are issues that are just

totally different to them. Like gay marriage, climate change, all of these things are, they're like givens to them. Like there's not, you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of young people who are like, yeah, the climate's not changing or this isn't climate change is a hoax. Like, and that was such a fight for so long in politics with Republicans. And so I just, think that they're thinking of it differently. But I think the economy is big for them because they're coming out and they're not satisfied with their jobs, entry-level jobs or where they're, you know, upward mobility. And they can't afford homes. And that is just not something that, you know, of like our parents' generation, they never had to worry about it. Like our parents had homes by the

time they were 30 years old. And so I think that has been a huge, a huge thing for them as well. Yeah, I think what's been really interesting to your point about even that tape resurfacing on TikTok, I've been really relieved to see some younger, more financially minded influencers on TikTok being like, hey, if you're not super happy with the economy right now, like, you know we're still living in Trump's tax policy, right? Like tax cuts he gave to billionaires or why your taxes are so terrible. And I was like, wow, guys, yes, you should probably make sure everybody knows that. Just like I think it's really great. that, you know, we're able to talk about the fact that the Harris Walls campaign has plans to aid first-time home buyers, you know, to help people kind of close that gap between our generation and our parents' generation. They're focusing on, like, the sandwich generation even with health care for parents, making sure you can be a home carer, especially if you have an elderly parent and young kids.

You know, these are things that really feel like they matter to folks. pierce some of this idea that the right wing is better for the economy, even though all the economic data for the last hundred years disproves that. I am really curious why you think that message seems to stick. Is it one of those things like Trump says that you repeat a lie enough and people will believe it? Or is it just that that's what they've made the focus of their campaigns for so many decades now that everyone kind of plays the word association You mean just like why voters trust Trump on like the economy and stuff? Yeah, because like he added 25% of the entire United States national debt was created under Donald Trump.

Like when you think about that, you know, in the 200 plus years we've existed, that in four years, 25% of our debt was made under one person, that's a pretty alarming statistic. So why do voters trust this guy, this bankruptcy king about money? Yeah, it's that. And it's like they just view him as a. very successful billionaire, even though he has declared bankruptcy a lot. He never would release his taxes. It was the New York Times that had to get access to parts of them. It is, it's a fascinating thing because also, you know, okay, in this moment right now, if I went home, which obviously Alabama is a very conservative state, but if I went home and said, okay, you know, how's everyone

feeling about this? My dad would say, well, I'm voting. This is just an example. If my dad's listening, I just don't. I'm not revealing his vote. This is just hypothetical. But if I said, you know, how do you feel at the economy? My doubt would be like, it sucks and I can't do this. And it's like, actually, your 401k is doing better. You're, you're not at risk of the Harris tax policy plan. Like if you make under $400,000. Same thing that Biden argued. The capital gains tax part, I think, concerned people. But she's kind of like dialed back on that after we heard from economists weighing in. But on this, you know, gas prices they'll say gas prices are so high right now the u.s is producing more oil than it ever has in the nation's history yeah and and but it's something that the white house doesn't often tout because it's not popular with progressives who care about the climate and want to see changes there but it is a fact it is happening and so we have republicans on all the time who say you know kaitland it's the economy that people are worried about and it's like okay but can you point to something and they'll point to energy prices and it's like

it's one of those things where I think so many lawmakers and politicians, not just Trump, but they say it all the time. And voters still feel like a malaise because of all the inflation and everything coming at a COVID, which look at how the U.S. did compared to other countries. We fared so much better than most other countries because of Biden and Harris's plan. Well, and no recession, you know, the Fed's monetary policy. And so it's all of those things. But it's like you can tell people all. all the facts and the numbers. And it's how people feel how they vote. And so I don't know, I'm not a politician thankfully, but I think that's probably got to be one of the most frustrating parts as being like, well, it's fine. So I don't know why you feel this way. Because you can't, you know, if you have a friend who's frustrated about something, you can't just say, well, that's not real because it is how they feel. So it's like, how do you talk to them in that sense of it? Yeah. Well, and I think there are certain things that hopefully are breaking through,

even the fact that Vice President Harris said she would go after companies for price gouging. And then suddenly you saw all these big corporations and grocery stores lowering their prices. And everyone was like, oh, so it is an inflation. It was a choice because y'all are bragging about your, you know, record breaking financial quarters every quarter on your earnings calls. So I know those things because I'm a news nerd. I know you know those things you work in the news. It is hard to see what's breaking through to voters. But clearly there's, you know, a lot of anxiety, and we do know that there is a lot of fear on the right that they're, you know, uniting around hate campaign isn't working because all these ballot boxes are getting set on fire in, you know, Washington and Oregon.

Which is really scary for what's going to happen on Tuesday. What happens there? Because we know that some states, and obviously they know, too, all of this is public information. We know that in some states, it's been less than 12,000 votes. And there could be thousands of ballots. in those ballot boxes that are in very progressive zip codes. How can public officials identify those voters? How do they rectify the situation? Have you heard of any precautions that are going to be put in place across the country to stop this from continuing to happen? Like, what do we do here? We actually talked to Marie Glucent-Camp Perez. She's a fascinating politician for people to know, lawmaker for people to know who she is. She represents a really competitive district in Washington.

She was elected in 2022, because I interviewed her, maybe 2020. It was either 2020 or 2022. And she, her family owns like an auto repair shop in Washington. She ran because she was frustrated. She's a Democrat, but she's very moderate and has a very, very, she flipped a red seat. So she's very middle of the road. But it's her district where the ballot boxes were set on fire. And she was so, her quote was pissed off when I talked to her about.

about it because she was like, these people did their duty. They went and voted. They took the time after like picking up their kids and going to the grocery store and doing this. Yes. And now it's like we have to find them and track them and make sure that they know that something happened. I saw they like laid out all the ballots. So they were trying to identify people who had not reached back out to say, hey, I cast my ballot here the other day to find those voters. But you make a good point overall. And something crazy I learned the other day, these poor election workers, who are volunteers doing their civic duty, going to help to ensure that you can go cast your ballots. Because it doesn't matter who's running, what the issues are if you can't actually

vote. And they are under such threats, largely because of Trump and his allies and how they handled the 2020 election. But in Georgia, the Secretary of State there ordered lanyards for all the poll workers. There's 3200 precincts that have a mobile panic button and them so they can push it. calls 9-1-1 if they're having issues. Wow. I just think that's crazy in the United States of America that we have to have mobile panic buttons for our poll workers. For election workers.

You don't know what could happen. Yeah. Well, and I saw a great effort that was gaining some traction this year where a lot of veterans were signing up to go and be poll workers because they were like, oh, you want to come threaten the democracy we risked our lives for? Not here. Oh, that's really funny. soil. And I've loved it. You know, a lot of the guys behind vote vets have been advocating for

this stuff. And I'm just like, yeah, you guys, like a lot of, I don't think people realize that so many folks who work at the polls are actually military veterans. Yeah, that's actually really interesting. And it's just, we've seen it. Like, it's not a made-up thing, a made-up concern. It's a hypothetical. We've seen it happening in Florida and in other polling places where it's a real issue. And so it just, you know, Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss, the two Georgia election workers who still have not gotten a dime from Rudy Giuliani, I just think about them because they lived in their community and what happened, how much they were lied about impacted their lives that before, like now they've won and they won their court case and everyone can see it. But at the time that no one knew, you know, Ruby Freeman talked about how she was scared to go to the grocery. store. Yeah, she was scared to leave her home. And people were showing up at her house. And it just is like nuts to think about in the sense of how, you know, a citizen who's done their duty is being harassed like that. Yeah, it's pretty alarming. You know how that feels, though. I mean,

granted, not on the scale, certainly, of what Ruby Freeman went through. You know, the attacks on her were unconscionable, but you hosted a town hall on CNN. You interviewed Donald Trump. It was 2023. And he didn't like that you pressed him, which is your job. And he called you a nasty person, his favorite insult to, you know, throw at women. He calls us bitches on the golf course, but on the news he'll call us nasty. How did that feel to you? Obviously, you kept your professional hat on, but what's it like to have the former president of the United States call you names and incite the kinds of violence that he does from his crowd personally for you?

You know, I have covered Donald Trump for eight years now. And even long, I met him in 20. 2015 when he was running. And I think from covering him, I just knew, I know his playbook. Like I, I, in that town hall, really, I basically could have predicted every answer he gave. You don't always know exactly, but he just always repeats himself. So you have a pretty good idea of where he's going. But in that moment, what we were, and I had, you know, this had happened to me in the briefing room before or just in the moment's the White House. they banned me from the Rose Garden an event at the Rose Garden once because he didn't like the questions I had asked

when he was in the Oval Office. And so it wasn't my first rodeo, basically. Right. But in that moment, we had been asking him about the classified documents investigation, and he had obviously taken them. It was before he had been indicted.

And we were asking, you know, why he took them and what was happening with that. And he very clearly didn't want to answer the question. And so he kind of gave his talking point, and then tried to move on. But then, you know, the art of journalism is in the follow-up question. It's often not your first question. It's your follow-up that really makes the difference or the news.

And so he clearly didn't want to answer that. And I kept pressing him. And so his tactic is kind of to divert and say, you're a nasty person. But in that moment, you have a choice. You can either respond to that, which certainly is a human response. I think a human impulse is to say, okay, like when someone calls you a name, But, you know, being there as a reporter, you have to think, okay, I'm here, fans of his are watching, detractors of his are watching. How do you maintain your credibility as a reporter

and also not get knocked off your line of questioning? I think you can never take the bait as a reporter. And that's probably one of the best things I've learned. This just happened when I interviewed Carrie like the other day. She kept making these digs about my age or, you know, what I meant to ask. And in that moment, it's easy to see how you you could be like, okay. But I think as a reporter, you've got to stay with your line of questioning and keep going because they want you to go and get in that fight because then they're not being asked the question they don't want to answer.

Right. Oh, it drives me a little crazy, but I also love it. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors. Given the rhetoric, the temperature, the nastiness, if you will, that you face in rooms like that one with him and what you just mentioned with Kiri Lake in Arizona. Like, is it a drastically different thing for you as a person, not just a journalist, but as a person when you prep to go in a room and you're interviewing someone, say,

from the Democratic side of the ticket? Like, or do you always feel kind of the same? I think it depends because there's certainly somewhere. Republicans who, you know, would never go there and would never, you know, they have decorum and, like, you know, they want to have a substantive back and forth. And maybe you don't agree or maybe they don't like, you know, the questions, but they're willing to play ball and come on. And, you know, we try to do that at 9 o'clock every night. We have people from both parties on because you've got to ask everyone a question. And like, you know, Democrats are taxpayer-funded officials, too.

And like, we always like to press people because I just think if you get paid by the taxpayers, you should have to answer tough questions. And honestly, sometimes they usually like it. Like, I think, you know, they're out in the political arena for a reason. And they like, they don't want to just do an easy interview. Like, they like to get pushed. Like, well, why do you think that way? Or why is this the best policy? And so I like when people show up to play and they want to engage and have a good, a good engaging interview that people want to watch. But it is when people, you know, are willing to go off the rails that you kind of have to be prepared on anything. And, you know, it kind of depends on who you're interviewing. You can get a sense

of how they are in that way. And if they're going to, you know, you never know where an interview is going to go. We had Trump's transition co-chair on the other night, Howard Lutnik. He's the video of Canter Fitzgerald here in New York. He's an amazing story about, you know, 9-11. He wasn't in the office. And he was one of the few who survived. And just this incredible story he's kind of like a pillar in the new york business community and he's running trump's transition and we had a mind we were going to talk about you know staffing and personnel and what's this going to look like and you know we prepare pushback and like what do we think they're going to say what are we going to say back to that my team and it went on this like

totally left turn into vaccines and like conspiracy theories about vaccines which like we were not expecting at all. And like, you know, you've got to fact check that at the moment and push back on it because, you know, you can't just let someone come on air and lie. Yeah. And so in moments like those, really what I try to do in every interview is just be as prepared as possible because you never know where it's going to go. Yeah. Well, I mean, even that stuff, you know, you've got all this RFK running around saying he's going to take over the, you know, the CDC. And I'm like, what we don't need is a resurgence of a measles epidemic. There are certain. things we should, I think, just be able to agree on and then build forward.

And think if you're the scientist who came up with that vaccine, you're like, really, I put all this hard work into, like, saving the lives of children and now I have to deal with people who want to undermine it. This close to eradicating polio, and now we're dealing with this because of these Yahoo's. And, you know, it isn't lost on me that a lot of us on the, you know, more sort of progressive side, if you will, of activism and organizing have been working on forcing the U.S. to meet the EU's food standards for so long. I'm like, I think you're going for the wrong side here.

But here we are. Everything is upside down at this point, and we're almost through it. You know, tomorrow's going to obviously be a very big day. I'm curious how you're preparing for election day, but also for the week. Yeah. And when do you think, given the early voting numbers we're seeing, when do you think we're going to know? Or is it too soon to say, even now? Well, as far as preparing, I'm always like, okay, you know, how can I brace myself for what

this is going to look like? I'm mentally preparing for it to go on for a long time, you know, in kind of the situation where you prepare for the worst, hope for the best. And, you know, we're going to go. I'll be in Florida at the Trump headquarters tomorrow for the, as the results are coming in. Abby Phillip will be with Vice President Harris's headquarters. So we're kind of like stationed to, you know, in real time on CNN, be able to say, here's the mood in the campaign right now. Here's what they're looking at in these numbers that are coming in. And when you're each in those different locations, but as you said, you're stationed on site, you know, you've kind of got a divide across the country. And then what? For the folks at home

that are like, but how does that work? You're patching in live to a studio and doing shows together, right? Yeah. So we'll have, and then we'll have like John King and the Magic Wall, like looking at all the numbers and Jake there if you know as we're getting numbers what are we calling and so basically it's just CNN on election night is at its best because it's like we have so many resources like we're so prepared we've been doing rehearsals everyone's kind of like you know this could happen or this could happen or this could happen Trump could declare victory prematurely like he did in 2020 like we're just kind of game planning all that I know um it's crazy that you have to even have to like think about that but um so that's basically it and like we'll be texting in real time and being

like here's what we're seeing here's what we're hearing and um so if you're watching you'll be able to see all those updates of like what's going on on the ground and then i don't know how long it's going to last i don't think we'll know on tuesday night i think everyone feels pretty maybe we will but everyone feels pretty consensus from what i've heard from my sources it's going to take a little bit just because the counting of those mail-in balance they can't some of them they can't start counting in some states until 7 p.m. And so, you know, these poll workers are doing the Lord's work. And they really are. Like, they seriously are. They deserve like, you know, all the treats of the world. So maybe by Thursday, you know, last year, or in 2020 last election, it took until 20,

it took until Saturday when we found out. Yeah. We had a pretty good idea, though, on Thursday and Friday. If you're looking at the numbers, I think they just wanted to be 100% sure. They wanted to feel good because public trust is so important. And being able to say, we'll see it and called it. I believe them. And, you know, it really was the difference maker, I think. And so we, we worked so hard to get it right. That's what people at home should know is we're looking at every inch of this. So we'll see how long it takes. The question is, you know, is it all going to come down to Pennsylvania? We're going to be hanging out there for a few days. Georgia, North Carolina. You know, we don't, you never know. And you know what the other thing is, there's always surprises that happen.

in the numbers or in the Senate races, you know, who's going to control the Senate, who's going to control the House. So we'll be like digging through all of that. Yeah. Woof. Okay. So maybe we assume that we'll know at the weekend, Saturday or Sunday. And if we know sooner, then we're thrilled. Exactly. And I think the one thing that is so important for people to know is just because we don't know on election night doesn't mean anything's wrong. It takes time to count and there's a lot of ballots and they want to be sure. And so it's not a sign of like, you know, you're like, why am I still waiting? This is weird. It's normal. It's just because we're such a big country. Yeah. And turnout is going to be so crazy. I heard a pollster say he thinks

about 170 million people will vote. So we'll see. Wow. Like that's, he said that was like the high number he thought. That's amazing. Do you think, I guess, the better question is what do you think? How do you estimate from what you see every day, how we as a society get to move forward after such a contentious and abnormal and historic election? Do you maybe have two different answers depending on who wins? Or do you think there's kind of a roadmap forward for Americans in general? The problem is with that, I don't, one I don't know, and I'm always hopeful that people will rise to the occasion. But I think when you look at the polling, if it's accurate, and even if it's two points off, the country is basically split. And most people

feel pretty strongly. And so what we do know is how polarized we are. So on election day, one person's team is going to win and one person's team is going to lose. And how people deal with that, you know, accepting a loss is a real thing. And, you know, And we saw that in 2020. It was so sad to see, like, and this is why, you know, anytime we have on someone who's an election denier, we always ask them about it regardless of what the news is that day. Because it's like, if you're a taxpayer-funded official and you've got this platform and you're misleading people who trust you because of your position, I just think that's, you know, one of the lowest things that someone can do. And so I just, you know, obviously if Harris wins, she said she would accept the outcome. Trump still waivers on that and says, you know, if it's free and fair, which obviously it was in 2020. So I think that's the thing to watch after is what does the environment look like after? Do people accept it or are we going to, I mean, you know, both campaigns have a ton of attorneys already stationed in the battleground states because they're preparing

for it to be one of the most litigated elections in U.S. history. And in 2004, when this happened, you know, Al Gore accepted it and, you know, gave a concession speech and said, you know, we're accepting the decision of the Supreme Court. And that was not a given. And so, so I don't know. So we'll see. But I do think, yeah, things are not over on Tuesday night. This is going to be a story that we're still following up until the inauguration and beyond that. Right. Well, there's obviously a lot to think about, a lot to prepare for. As you said, you've got a lot to sort of rehearse. and make sure you're ready for any outcome. It's a lot of work and it's mentally taxing. I'm curious if you feel like you can also take a step back and insulate yourself a little bit, or if it's just all in, all election,

you'll catch your breath when it's over. Because normally I like to ask people, you know, at the end of an interview, what your work in progress is right now. But I don't know if you even have time to think about it. that's a great it's a great question and you know i'm such a political junkie that i love the election because i think the one thing that we've been talking about polls for two years now and the one thing that we'll learn on tuesday is like how do the people how do people actually

feel what did they actually decide what do the numbers look like and who showed up where so i love that because i love it's always really informative and i think you learn a lot i think as a reporter, you know, who is covered two historic elections already and now approaching the third, I always just think, how can I do my best? Like, how can I be the clearest? How can I see as someone who studies this every day? How can I see what maybe other people who are busy and at home are tuning in? Like, how can I help them understand it and think about it and process it? Like, I just want to be of service in that sense. And so that's what I'm thinking of going into election night is best reporting, clearest reporting, cutting through the bullshit.

Like, that's what I think is, is our responsibility as reporters. And so that's what I'm going, you know, I always want to get better at every election. 2016 was crazy. 2020 was crazy. I was at Trump campaign headquarters in 2016. I was at the White House in 2020. And I'll be back at the Trump campaign headquarters tomorrow night. And so, you know, doing my best there is like my goal right now. And then I'll catch my breath like in January or February. Well, we'll talk about our personal work in progress, maybe around the holidays. Yeah, I love that. Okay, good.

Well, thank you so much. I'll be thinking about you tomorrow, you know, you and Abby, my fingers are crossed for you guys. I hope it is, I hope it's a good night for us all. I hope it's, yeah, I just hope everyone's, you know, respectful and not. violent. We're going to make it through it. Patient. But thanks for having me on. This has been so fun, and it's such an exciting time. And it's great to talk. And I just love how much you know and care about it. And I think that's, you know, it's always really inspiring for people. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you said it. We're political junkies for sure. And I think my, you know, for me, once I realize that

every single thing I touch, do see, you know, observe, smell, experience in the world. is the result of policy. I was like, oh, I have to know everything about how all of this happens. And so if I can, you know, play any part in supporting the work you all do and reminding people that the political is personal, it's like, then everything's gravy for me. I'm thrilled about it. Yeah. And the more involved you are and the more you know, like, people really can individually make such a, such an impact. I think sometimes people feel powerless and I think reminding people that they're not. And that none of this is a given is so important. Me too. Thanks for taking the time. I know you guys are swamped. It means a lot. Thanks.

Yeah. I'll talk to you soon. Okay. Bye, guys. Thank you. Thank you.