Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Lake Bell

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Lake Bell is known for acting, directing and screenwriting, and now she adds children’s author to her credits! Inspired by her young daughter’s journey with epilepsy, Lake hopes “All About Brains: A Book About People” will normalize the conversation about neurodivergency -- something Sophia wished people were doing when she was a child! Lake and Sophia get real about everything from politics to parenthood, including the plight of being a night owl with kids. Plus, Sophia shares a wild encounter inside an airport bathroom that’ll have every woman wondering what she’d do in that situation. “All About Brains: A Book About People” is available at booksellers everywhere.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hello, Whipsmarties, today we are joined by one of my favorite, smart, creative, I mean, brilliant women who also happens to be one of the coolest chicks that I know. Today's guest is actress, writer, and director, Lake Bell, who is starring in the upcoming series, The Chair Company on HBO, and who has just released a book inspired by her daughter. The book is called All About Brains, a book about people, and it is a whimsical story that celebrates the ways all of our different brains make us special, in a lighthearted and you'll hear me crying, emotional exploration of neurodivor. The book was inspired by Lake's own daughter, Nova, and today we're going to talk about what it's like to be a parent of a brilliant and different kid, what both of our journeys with families

look like, and how she views her career as both a personal sense of expression and as a real responsibility because with a platform comes privilege. And Lake is so amazing at mobilizing her privilege for others in really beautiful and inclusive ways. Let's dive in with Lake Bell. I was reading so many articles about your audiobook because it fascinates me and also I feel like I needed to go back in time a little bit. And when you were talking about having a voice like you have a voice similar to my own. I was going to say you, yeah, you were on the list of unique voices. Well, just in terms of what it was like as a young actor, particularly not sounding like,

all the little ingenues. Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh my God, same girl. I feel it. Yeah. Well, I think it, I think, you know, definitely it's more, it affects more than you realize. Yeah. it's like, sure, you can look a certain way, you can imbue a certain amount of qualities that

is en jeune-esque. But then if your sound is different, there's like a jeune-se-cois that might or either get you the role or not get you the role. Yeah. Or have someone even in an interview situation or a meeting a potential partner for the first time, you know, whatever it is, you're like, oh, we're either going to get along or not. I mean, for me, I, you know, there's like a vocal chemistry, I think. Yeah. That happens that I can be highly adverse to certain sounds. Also because my ears, I think, are, I call, I say to my kids, I'm like, I have wolf

hearing, so you got to take it down a notch. Same sensitive, sensitive hearing, right? Which means I'm like picking up on all kinds of, you know, vocal little quirks and qualities and things that are, you know, what's also what's. not there, you know, resonance or like being really tinny, you know, and like pushing. I'm like, where's your breath, you know? Yeah. Like, I just, the science of sound.

The science of sound and the kind of emotional sort of qualities that I think really either pull you to someone. It's like a magnet, you know, you hear someone's sound and you're like, ooh, I'm attracted to that sound. or, oh, God, I'm just repelled by that sound. Yeah. Which is like, sorry, but, you know, it just is one of those things. I think it's almost like pheromones, you know.

Totally. I love that. Well, and I think about particularly the era we came up in as actors, we were in the height of sort of sexy baby voice. Yeah, that like Pereseltini sound. Britney Spears. Very sexy, very young, very nubile, I don't know. And I remember, I can't recall, I think it must have been the, maybe the second or third season that we were doing One Tree Hill in Wilmington. You came to do your show. Oh yeah. That's right. We were there together. Yes. And I remember hanging out with you. I don't remember if it was the apartment you were in or one of your castmates that used to be Dennis Hopper's place. It was yours. It was yours. And I remember just being like, this girl is so cool. And I'm so excited to be her friend. And then your show moved on. And then I was there, which was great, but I was there alone mostly.

And I was so excited years later to see you again and be like, hey, girl. And it was like the raspy ones are, we're still here. It is, it's interesting. And your sound has, just now that I'm thinking about your sound, your sound and my sound both have evolved. Like if we took a clip of us during those earlier years in Williamsburg, Williamton, what is it? Wilmington. Wilmington. I'm like Williamsburg.

Williamsburg would have been cool. No. In Wilmington, you know, I bet those sounds have, you know, just the color of life, you know, has occurred where more rasp has coming out, you know, or, you know, also we've arrived in this space to speak in mics. So my sound, I'm aware of my sound being a little more juicy and a little more liquid than it might be if I'm kind of just, you know, talking to my daughter. I'm like, that's enough, you know? Like, maybe I'm not supporting my voice as much when I'm, when I'm parenting in chaos. But, you know, I think all of those things are just so sexy to me. Like, they turn me on so much. I love our, the things that we don't notice, you know. And so if we looked back on and

listen to our voices in those early episodes of those shows, I think they would sound different than they are right now. Oh my God, I would love. Well, that sort of leads me to the question I normally start with with guests because, you know, you come in, you're promoting something, you've written something, you have a film coming out, whatever it is, you have this gorgeous career and listeners know you as this person. And I always am curious if you got to go back in time and hang out with yourself when you were a kid, maybe when you were your daughter's age, would you see yourself in that little version of you? And because it's you, I also want to know, was that little girl obsessed with sound? Yes. So I have to say I was like unabashedly precocious and super into

dorked out nerdy stuff like that. And I used to put on these at Nova's age for sure, maybe even younger as a procrastination tool to go to bed. I did not want to go to a night person. And I was like, I got to entertain the adults. So it would be that thing of I put on voices and, you know, play Harry Belafonte and, you know, throw on an outfit and do a dance number, you know, musical number. But definitely interested in from an early age, being from New York, especially where you are surrounded by whether you like it or not, just. towns of the city, but then also of a thousand different cultures and a thousand languages, you know, and how people spoke. Even within New York, you know, you had just this

beautiful cacophony of accents and dialects and languages. And so I think that was very integral to my interest in not just culture, but character, you know. Yeah. So where do you think that bug came from? When did you know you were studying people because you wanted to play people? I think it was super early. I knew I wanted to be an actor before I understood what it is to be an actor. I just knew that I wanted to be characters before I knew that word. I remember in the 80s growing up in the city, there was always movie trucks on the side of the road. And it was usually, you know, there would be like Woody Allen movies being shot and whatnot. Or I just remember this particular one because I was on the Upper East side. So, you know, he definitely would have lots of things shot there. Anyway, so I would be pouting like this in the taxi cab, say, and my mom would say, what's wrong? What's, what's up?

I'd be like, I'm not even in that movie. And she's like, you're six. Like, you know. And I'm like, yeah, but I didn't even like, like, there's just movies happening. and like everyone's just making fun things and I'm not even invited and you know and she'd be like well when you grow up if that's still what you want to do you know you get to do that so i just remember being like knowing i wanted to do it i want to look that's so fun that thing that they do and i want to do that i want to write stories i want to be in stories um and so did you have that i think i did

weirdly. And it was an interesting thing because, you know, it sort of occurred to me more recently. Somebody asked me why I ride really hard for the crew at work. Like, you know, it was partially a compliment in the conversation and partially a call out of like, you know your job is to be focused on your job. You don't always have to be making sure everyone else has everything they need for their job like that's kind of their job and and so was this neat interesting thing because i was explaining you know when you are in a cast and certainly when you've worked your way up to being in you know the the first four numbers let alone number one on the call sheet like you do have to really advocate for your people and i think it was a a person pointing out to me maybe having

a slightly altered percentage of where my focus can go, just to ensure that I'm, to your point, like taking care of my instrument, doing the things that I really need to do for me as well. And I think it made me click into what it was like to grow up, going to work with my dad a lot, because he was a photographer for his whole career. I always say he was, and then I'm like,

he didn't die. He just is retired. Oh, my gosh. it's scary um but you know i i went to work with a crew dad yeah and so i got to see how talent behaved i got to see how visiting executives or creative directors behaved and i got to see how hard everybody else was working and how their behavior affected a set though wasn't often centered and so i really i cherish that and and so i think i i think i learned how to be a good crew person and then eventual producer from working with my dad. But I don't think I

clued into wanting to be a performer. I just knew art was fun. And then I think there was a period similarly to you, because I'm also a night owl, where I never wanted to go to bed. And so I would get caught watching Dragnet, like on Nick at night or reruns of Mr. Ed. Like I was, I've truly been a grandfather for my whole life, but then I realized if I could get my parents to hang out with me. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Then I could usually stay up a little later. Yeah, don't you like the show? Whatever show you guys want to watch. Yeah. And then I'd start doing like a, oh, well, why don't you let me do the voices? Oh, like, I'll give, I'll give you a performance as grandpa and all his friends in TNAC, you know. And like, then my, then I could stay up a little

later. And I had not thought about it in that way until I was reading your reflections. on how you became obsessed with voice acting. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God. We would have been cool little kid friends. For sure. We would have stayed up till like two in the morning. 100%.

I still want to stay up until 2 in the morning. I know. Well, now I'm having our kids. We'll be back in just a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. Okay, so this is my question for you completely. Yeah. They were taking a left turn, but it's perfect.

thinking about you and your two kids, now that I love someone with two kids, I am having to become a mourning person. Yeah. Because children are mourning people. Yeah, they just want to get up. And I am a night person. And I mean, even like diagnosed circadian rhythm by a sleep doctor, oh, you're one of the rare 8% of people who is a true night owl. How do you do it as a mom? You don't have a choice. You just shift it. You just don't have a choice. Yeah, you don't have a choice at all.

And it's like, I remember my ex-husband, who's awesome. Scott was saying, you know, he knew I was a night owl, and he's like, let's, you know, try for a kid. I'm like, yeah, totally. But what if they're, what if they're like early birds, you know, like you? because my, he's just like, he'll be up at five. Oh, no. And I am, he knew I was such a night owl. And he's like, I'll take care of morning shift forever.

Don't worry about it. So you have a kid and guess what? Your boobs are on morning shift, whether you like it or not, meaning you're attached to your boobs and therefore morning shift occurs. And then you're just trained. And the truth is, when you're. pregnant you are the reason I feel like the reason why the body keeps you up all hours of the night and in the morning and everything is because the body is just training you to just you sorry you're going to have to be doing feedings every two hours this is part of the training system that we put

in place and so the pregnant body just kind of starts training you and then by the time you're deposited on the other side of this like epic life moment of childbirth, you are, you're like, I guess I'm a person who's up all night and also in the morning. Oh, I know. And then you start to taper off a little and right when you get comfy, it's like there's sleep regression, you know, and so you're just needed. And the truth is, like, you're chemically, you're chemically connected to the progeny and the being that is wanting sustenance and so your brain you know your body's just like all right

it'll give you sustenance i guess i'm doing yeah it's just like in the same in a similar way you know it's different because it doesn't have the chemical component but i love what we do so much right like i it is so hugely a part of i feel so grateful and privileged to be able to be a writer and a director and create these stories as an actor and oh wow, get to be a part of this creative ecosystem, you know, family. And so when they say you have to be on set at 6 a.m. to be in hair and makeup,

you're not psyched, but you totally do it. Yep. You wake up, you got to get up at 5 because you're going to have to get picked up by the van at 515 and then the location's X amount away. So you're just doing it. Yep. There's no, it's, there's no quite, you just do it. And I think the adjustment of anything in life as an adult, you know, it's just that. But I hear you. Yeah. It is, when you're like, body wants to be asleep at certain times, you know, you just got to. You just got to do it. You just got to do it. Oh, that's the thing. Yeah. It's been really interesting. And I've nerded out a little bit on the, you know, the sleep prep where I'm like, okay, this is when I got to turn my screen.

screens off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm watching TV, it's not even, it's not 1019. If it hits 1021, it's like a little gremlin who's jolly. Yeah. In me is like, it's my time now. Yeah, yeah. And I just, I want to reorganize. I want to do laundry. I want to watch television. I want to watch eight episodes of television. Yeah, you got to get the whole season. It's just so crazy. So I'm kind of like, okay, I got to wind down at 9.30. I'm going to put on the blue light glasses. Yeah. Two and four. Oh, snap. Yeah, about to be three. Okay, so you're in it.

Oh, yeah. And my partner's the sweetest human in the world because she's like, you missed the like warm loaf of bread, sleepy baby stage. Like you came into this world, our world with two toddlers. And they're just like up all the time and absolutely amped. And they are my favorite little humans. Like they're so funny and so charming and wonderful and wild.

And my godson is right in the age. between the two of them. So it's just like a pack of babies everywhere. My two best friends have have recent one-year-olds. And it's just like, that's a lot. It's a lot. We're having the most fun. Yeah. But yeah, I was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't get the like mostly napping phase. There's just, it's just, you sign up for the sleeplessness. You do. Yeah. And then you realize, I can't believe that I'm actually, I'm getting through this. Yeah. Like you do. Anyway. Yeah. I also will say in, in some of the. the, you know, as stressful as things have been in our day job world where no one knows what's

happening to our beautiful industry in the times where we're not on set hours and things like this are scheduled early or late. I'm like, ooh, it's nap time. I'm going to nap too. That changes my life. The world is exhausting right now. You know, so it's, gee, what do you mean? You mean 2025? Is something going on? Yeah. I mean, I just feel like. Like the, the endurance race that we've even been on since COVID, you know, is really, you know, it's, if you, you know, Carpe Napdom, you know, I just like, if you have the great and beautiful privilege to rest, please do that for your own health and well-being. Yeah. Like, if I get in a nap a month, I feel like there should be a thing in my little health app that I can, I want like a button that gives me a gold coin. like in Zelda.

Absolutely luxury. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like to nap is to say that you're worth shutting your system down and taking that time to be that loaf of bread, as it were. Yeah. Well, I will never forget many years ago my therapist saying to me about a friend's recently born kid, would you ever let that baby go without sleep? Would you ever let that baby go hungry? Would you ever, you know.

And it was this sort of serious. of questions and she said, why do you as an adult woman think you deserve less care? And I went, oof, because we would. We would do anything for our kids. We would do anything for the kids in our village, our friends' kids. Like, we show up for them in these ways. And yeah, on the on the off month that I get a nap in, I'm like, look at me, self-care. Yeah, I mean, I feel, I think the main thing is you feel guilt. I think as a parent, I, you know, I'm a parent of children with some learning differences and I'm divorced, I'm a single mom, you know, I were 50-50 with everything, you know, so it's like there's this sense of I need to be doing something. Also, as an activist, as somebody who gives a shit about the world and how oppression is just reeking through every orifice of this. of every systemic system, I don't know, space, place,

all of it, countries, continents, world, I mean, environment. I mean, so through that, I think, you know, do I feel personally, at least I can only speak for myself, that I can feel a sense of guilt of how dare you rest. How dare you rest when so many cannot? So that's where I come from. And I go, hey, guess what? You know, it is my, it is my responsibility to take care of myself in order to take care of my children in order to be an activist, in order to be a human who supports the values that I believe in, you know?

Yeah. So it's like, you have to do it. You have to. And I think one of the things that's so important about that is to take time for joy. not just because you as a human deserve it, but also because joy is fuel. How are you supposed to keep fighting oppression? How are you supposed to advocate for our equal protections under the law if you're just fried all of the time?

I do think, yeah, I think it is, I think joy is essential. I think that I'm trying to show my children. I mean, that's the other thing through the lens of being, a parent and being, you know, able to show up for these young minds and say, hey, look, here's how I live my life. I hope that I can't say to you, read more books if I don't read books, you know, it's like

you must be a mirror and a model and thank God for them for that reason, you know, because I am also saying I will do, I will experience joy as well because part of the. human condition, you know, sort of feeds on and needs joy. It needs sadness. It needs mourning. It needs activity, you know, all these things. When you think about all the things you've created, you know, characters and stories and, you know, from the books to the movies, and then you make this shift into writing a children's book. To me, it reads like such a love letter to your kid and to other people's kids. Was it easier do you think to do because you've written so much before or did it almost feel like it had more weight because it's for her? Well, it's interesting. I felt writing

all about brains was very intuitive and easy for me because it really was born from a place of listening. Nova was, my daughter has epilepsy and I see. say she has epilepsy even though she is seizure-free currently because she has a genetic mutation. And so once you kind of have seizures, just say you have epilepsy, just for the sake of honoring your brain systems. Nova, because she has this genetic mutation, will always carry it. And how it has shown up for her from a neurological standpoint of how her brain functions and how her brain functions and how she interacts with the world and interacts with academics and how she enters with social emotional interactions. You know, it's present in a multitude of ways that are, you know,

that, sure, you could write down on paper, but to live it, it feels so unique to her. And it's what makes her great and what makes her a poet, you know, and all of those. superpowers, those unique qualities, as it were. When I look at her and I experience her as a little person who is coming up, the way she takes ownership of it and lives in it is what I think really inspired the book because of how she speaks about her neurological differences to her peers. And so it was so easy to kind of like listen and then digest and then, yes, even as a screenwriter myself and how I sort of take on writing, which is through the lens of different characters,

I could use her as that sort of beacon of little narrative. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. Okay, so this makes me really curious. Loving words the way you do and grammar the way you do. What were the things that Nova started to say to you that made you realize, oh, that's, that's a new phrase, that's a new way of thinking. The way you experience your genetic makeup is something I want to write down. She, there was a moment where she had a seizure and she apologized for it. And I think that it caused a massive reframe, need to reframe the narrative of epilepsy in our lives and in our family.

This is not something we apologize for, right? Seizures, we explained to her, are electrical misfires really in the brain that it's simply that, you know, all of our brains are comprised of this mysterious. electrical energy that is hard to map out precisely. So anyway, with Nova, you know, in explaining these electrical systems, she sort of digested that as, oh, there's like this sparkling magic that's happening. So it's like this sparkle, right, this like, like the sparkler that occurs because that's electric, it looks electrical or something, you know, it has a sort of personality of something that is

sort of bright and a speck of light, you know, and... I feel special. I feel special. And it sounds special. So then her explaining it to peers is what I think

got me really excited to think about, oh, how could I explain this? How could I show this experience? Like, Nova's experience. like her experiential sort of flavors of how she feels what an epileptic, epileptic convulsion feels like, that's interesting too. You know, she would start to explain to me, yeah, because I'd ask, I'm like, what does it feel like? I'm just curious, I've never had one.

Yeah. So here you are a six-year-old, you're experiencing something I have never experienced. And she's like, okay, well, you know, she would explain that there was kind of a, a tingling in her mouth, so sparkling in the mouth kind of, and then that things go black and that she doesn't, so then she says she's out, and then she comes back and she, all of her body is tired. So it was like, oh, this is such great information. Wow. And then we started talking about it in this way of like, this, you don't have to apologize for this. This means you're just operating on a level of

you are like a shaman like you are when you have these sparkles you got to let me know because that means you're sparkling more magic than I am right now and maybe everyone in the room or maybe anyone on the block so let me know girl because when you're

sparkling like I because I had to write it down anyway in a log so when she would feel them come on because some seizures just so you know are like not all the big fancy grand mall ones where you fall down and it's a whole thing. There's also myoclonic seizures, which were the little mini ones that she would get,

which were more stuttered in the mouth. So you, uh, uh, uh, uh, like that. Yes. So when you're trying to experience, say something and it, it, it trips up. It looks like an electrical, um, like a, yeah, like a glitch. Yeah, a glit. Yeah. So she would have those.

And then that was really interesting because I was like, okay, thank you so much for letting me know that you had a mini, you know? Yeah. And she'd be like, I'm just like really smart today. I'm like, oh. Oh. You know, so it became that instead of sorry. But what an amazing thing that you as a parent were not only able to reframe it to get her out of the feeling of needing to apologize for herself.

You know, because we all know the crazy research about how much women say sorry all the time. So to help stop that impulse, but also to take the fear away for. her because you turning this into something sparkly letting her know she's doing something and you want to know about it to take that what I would imagine at first caused a lot of terror and anxiety for your child and to help her feel powerful in her body instead like makes me want to sob it's it's what the book is about so it's like it me too I mean the second I saw her shift her perception of seizures and report one to me while she was in the other room, come running in and say, I'm smart today, you know, like, I'm firing on all cylinders.

You know, it's like, oh, you have a mini. All right, girl, look at you. You know, was such a great moment. And so I think that the book, with that same respect of our neurological differences that we all imbue in some shade. And that's my own feeling is like, I said to Nova, I say to Nova, all the time, like, everybody's walking around here and everybody's got a thing. You know what I mean?

You don't see it, but they've got it. Some shade of something. Of course. I'm dyslexic. Like, I'm not running around going on. As an adult, I got diagnosed with ADHD. I was like, wow, okay. So does Nova.

A lot of things really make more sense for me. I wish I'd known this as a kid. Sure. Maybe I didn't have to white knuckle through. the like overachieving tendency of my neurospiciness mixed with like growing up with an immigrant dad okay um but that that was so special even for me as an adult reading the book as Nova opens up for our listeners at home to her class in this beautiful children's book so many other kids in the class begin to share their thing. Yeah. And to read about her classmate sharing about her ADHD,

I was like, oh my God, I needed this book. It made me feel so emo, even in my adult body. And what it really, I think, beautifully reminds readers of is this thing you're saying, that you remind your kid in the world, that everyone's got their own particular brain. And I find it. really refreshing in a time to relate to our earlier conversation, which might sound sad, but I think is actually really beautiful. In a time when our exceptional leaps in our medical and psychological practices mean that more and more people learn what their thing is, our advancements, our ability to see people is actually being attacked. Yeah. And it's being scapegoated so that people who want to make a bunch of money selling you non-approved vitamins

can convince you not to get the vaccines that you need. It drives me crazy, you know, because people want to talk about that, but they don't want to talk about the fact they, you know, they like to say, oh, Farm is a billion dollar a year industry. And I'm like, yeah, the supplement industry is over $4 billion a year. So who do you think is grifting? The doctors or the people who don't have to adhere to medical standards. So it's like for me, it hit home. You know, you're not talking about politics in the book.

You're in a kid's classroom. Yeah, but we talk about meds. We talk about medication. Exactly. And what I loved is that without having to get overtly political, what you're doing as a mom is celebrating your own kid and everyone else's kids for whatever they are and how lucky they are to know.

know what they are, whether they have anxiety or one kid is on the autism spectrum or your kid has epilepsy or another kid has ADHD. They are being celebrated for the ways they see their world, their friends, their classroom, their teacher. And I just like, it really makes me want to cry. It's beautiful. Thank you. I appreciate that. I feel like we are in a time where I think what keeps me up at night is not understanding how, I mean, the core of our humanity and what makes us human is caring for other humans and being in community with other bodies, regardless of their brains, their shapes, their colors. It's like we're, you know, religions. And I feel like anything short of ultimate you know anything short of ultimate, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I really, I, I, I, I really look

around and I'm just like, you know, yes, my book has this generosity of, you know, Spirit, as anything that I'm going to write in my life, will always have that. Because I think of, you know, if I can impart anything, I mean, in the lives of young minds, but also in parents as well, I just feel exhausted with the idea that somehow it's radical to be inclusive. Yeah. What strikes me constantly is this is the whole point. The point of evolving as humans

of becoming a more globally connected society, of having our most successful social media app be for picture sharing so you can see where and how other people live. The whole point is to be nicer to each other. and people can sell this really old world tribalism through fear and I'm like wouldn't it be so much nicer for us all to not be afraid and just I don't know be able to go to the doctor and breathe clean air like doesn't that just sound better yeah I mean I was just talking about this

with the front of mine who's an activist and it's like I you know the systems you know it's like oh we want to burn the systems down I'm like The systems are like a knot. It's like your hair. It's like knotted hair. They're tiny, tiny knots. It's not like you can sit down in an afternoon and kind of like undo them, right? And there's thousands and millions of them, these systems, you know.

Yes. So we have to be within the systems radically conscientious and active. and um and kind and and and unrelent you know relentless with our um radical compassion yeah i think about it you know the difference i would say from becoming an activist in my 20s and the version of that for me today is to use your knot analogy it's not just that it's knotted like your hair It's your hair. If you burn it down, you burn with it. Yeah.

And so the most radical kind of care is to sit with people and help them untangle their knots. And I actually think that when you're younger and less patient, the idea of burning a whole system down sounds cool. But when you, as you get older and you actually learn to hold more things to be true at the same time. It's nuanced, for sure. The nuance matters. and actually the way to be radical is to stay in the fight for your whole life. Yes.

I think about activism. And also using voice, right? Like coming back to voice. Yes. But I think about activism is the longest marriage I'll ever be in. Right. You know, I am dedicated to this place

and how we leave it for our kids first and foremost. And if you treat your activism like your greatest love story, it's also going to be ugly sometimes. It's going to be, it's going to require patience. and like that. Disappointing sometimes. Yeah, that's what I want. And I, you know, someone, some might say it's ironic for two divorced women to be sitting here having this conversation. But I actually think it's part of how I, how I came to that analogy. Because I went, oh, I get it. This, this is the thing that I will actually be the most patient with. I'm much more willing to wake up one day and say, oh, I'm in the wrong thing and move along for myself.

But for us, I'm like, oh, no, I'm, I am married to this fucking country. You can't get rid of me. I mean, you are stuck with me forever. I'm married to, I think, you know, it's interesting when you talk about that, the activism. Well, you say I'm married to this country, right? And I'm like, I think. This planet, maybe. Yeah, maybe I'm married.

I'm married to the planet and to the, you know, to humanity, right? where it's like, I can't, first of all, I can't unsee what we've seen, right? Not possible. And I am in solidarity with you. I feel the same way. I do think that, you know, I'm kind of thinking like, why is it so ironic, the two divorced women talking about that? I actually think it makes all the sense in the world. You know, I'm so grateful to.

to be in the space now at my age, I'm in my 40s, and I know who I am, and I understand that that little activist was inside me my whole life, you know, and showing up in different ways and feeling like I wasn't invited to the party of active, I wasn't even allowed to be participatory, and it didn't feel like I, I mean, my mom was definitely showing me some forms of activism, but I think that how great that we get to write our own path and then use our voices to be betrothed to this, you know, to the cause of all bodies, you know. And now for our sponsors. So much of your.

work in equity, you have focused in our industry for women and with women in film and everything that you do. How did you find that kind of home for yourself? It's interesting. I've served on the board for nine years and then I had to cycle out and women in film and I had such a tremendous experience there. I think realizing that obviously culture moves with culture right so in order to um in order to really move things um from you know in a way that alter how people think or open the minds of how people think we have to utilize storytelling and so it felt like women in film was and is still an organization really worth um supporting because it's helping create culture and

And so there are these, and also highlighting where there are massive inequities within our industry, which is the industry that I love and care about. I think as I have expanded and had to cycle off of the board, I still support women and film tremendously. And now I am, I'm working with Women for Women International, who I love. and I stay within organizations that I think are empowering and building a positive system of support for women in their communities where they are marginalized but also just without infrastructure. So I think that's where my voice and life force energy lie and also I'm with you and looking around and seeing the gross

discrimination of our within our country and the pain and oppression that has been here since this country was founded that is just a loud and front and center. Is it kind of crazy to you that we've essentially had one generation of virtual, I'm not going to say actual equity for men and women, but like, closer than ever before. You know, like, my mom couldn't get a credit card without a man's permission until 1974. Right. So we're really the first generation. You know, granted, we know women get funded less.

We know our movies get made less, like anywhere or whatever. We know, we know all the stats. But I'm like, God, we just started to get like a little bit of freedom. We had one generation of us who could get a credit card and file for a no-fault divorce. and now y'all want to roll it back. Are you that scared of us? I mean, I mean, even, you know,

there is such flagrant, misogyny and white supremacy in this country that is baked into the bedrock of so many. many of our systems that it is like, I think, if anything, it's most recent that the awakening of us all realizing, certainly as white bodies, to realize that this shit has been going on from day one. It's like when you have the privilege of not, you know, people who say, oh, you know, I'm not really political. And I'm like, well, that's because the system's working for you.

Yeah. Okay. You don't have to be. That's a privilege to not be political. So I think understanding that and being thoughtful and not being overly self-righteous, you know, but the idea that you're just like, I'm aware and I'm wanting to be a part of educating myself and being supportive of real and true. equity yeah and and realizing that the scarcity mentality yes yes lie and when you feel like oh god if if we achieve this will i lose that's what they want you to feel yeah i mean it's like no if we win we all win yeah if if if some are not free then we're not free yeah like so yeah because then it's

just an illusion yeah it's it's it's like but you have to like really um I mean, certainly, I think, on our generation, too, I think that, like you said, there's this, oh, we got to, we can, we can vote and we can get. Look, we won all these rights and now they're set. It's like, they're not set. We got to hold on to them. You got to hold on to them. And then also be aware that so many other marginalized groups are in a constant state and have never, still still not thriving.

So it's like, God damn it. You know, it's like we have so much work to do, but then at least we have megaphones, you know. And I, you know, I really try to, even in non-megaphone ways, I try to like live my values as I walk down the street and sit in the subway and who, who, you know, like how I interact, how I pick up the trash from the, you know, to help this old woman across the street. you know, like trying to show, and also with my children. I'm like, yeah, this is who we are, okay? Yeah. This is like, this is where you're from, okay? Totally.

So. Yeah, it's little things. It's like, it's funny that you say, you know, you pick up the trash or you do this thing. You set an example when no one's watching. Also, because it's who you are. Totally. You live your values. And the other day, I was on a couple of planes last week.

And I had a layover in Denver. Flex. You know, sick. Layover was great. And I went to the restroom in the airport, as one does. And, you know, it's like midday. The whole countertop in between every sink is wet. And I had like a three hour layover. And I got extra paper towels and just started like drying up the countertop. And I saw this woman at the other end of the counter, like kind of look at me. And I saw her pause. I was doing the thing where I was really watching out of my peripheral, which I think I've gotten good at because it's like on. set. I need to know when the person I'm not supposed to see is coming. So I turn at the correct time for camera, you know, to not fuck up the shot. And so it's so stupid, but I'm like, ooh, I have a really wide purview here. And I like, see her and she takes a beat and then she gets a couple paper towels and starts drying. And we literally met in the middle of the counter and looked at each other and just nodded. And like, went about our day. That's some girl

shit. It was, oh, girlhood is my, it's my, it's my, just my joy. These countertops. We were like, you know, we did a nice thing. And nobody saw us, but I saw you and you saw me and this is cool. And it's like... She's a huge One Tree Hill fan too. By the way, if she was, she played it so cool. I have no idea. But like, it's just little things are capable of having such a ripple effect.

And you can pause and be generous in your space at any time. It's so true. And I feel like, look, not every day. Some days you're going to be like, I'm pissy today. Oh, totally. Sometimes you're the nightmare person at the airport, but like, we try. But, but for the majority of the time, yeah, I mean, you know, people, I say to my kids, too, I'm like 99.9% of the people as you walk down the street are good.

Yeah. They are. I mean, I'm just telling you, there's a, you know, 0.1% okay, that are like born bad, I guess. I don't know, whatever that means. It means maybe like, you know, they want to harm or something. something. But otherwise, I mean, people are pretty good. They're going to look different than you. They might have differences like you got differences. And it's okay. I'm just telling you, you don't have to like fear the world. Okay. Because this is the problem we're growing up because

I have to, I have to manage myself as well. Where it's like, you know, how do I not fear the world, the world? You know, we have so much anxiety. We're reading. In the news, and you're just like, there's a thousand ways to die today. Yeah. For everyone. Yeah. And it's just like, Jesus Christ. And you've got to come back.

Then you take a nap. Then once a month, you take a nap. Once a month, you take, well, maybe once a week. If you can. I think it's really cool, though, that you, it sounds to me, like you are constantly able to claim the good, not just for yourself, but because you're also modeling it for your kids. Yeah, I think it's kids, but then it's also like, oh, like you said, you guys were wiping down those counters. And there's just something about that woman's going to then walk on to her.

You felt better, right, that you had a comrade in that. And you come, oh, I believe in society. Yeah. I'm like, see, people are good. Yeah. So you're having that feeling. She's having that feeling. Yeah.

And then she's going to, you know, that's going to ripple, like you said, to the since she's sitting next to, you know, in Denver or whatever. So the point is, I'm with you. I think that when you feel helpless, it's like, yes, you're going to do all the, you're going to go to the protest. You're going to go, you know, you're going to call your representative. You're going to, you know, write a check if you can. You're going to buy a T-shirt in support of X, Y, or Z.

And then you're going to pick up that piece of trash. You're going to wipe down a counter. You're going to smile. You're going to have a, like I had a conversation with a guy who came. onto the subway and just was immediately wanted to start talking about the subway cars. And the models of the subway cars, he was a delivery

guy, but boy, he had all the answers. Sounds like the little boy in your book. Yes, totally. There was totally, and I was thinking, you know, I'm always under the impression that, like, since I have some neurodiversity, you have some everybody in this room has some neurodiversity. They're looking at us and wrap it up.

But the point is like the whole, you know, this man walks in. Clearly, like, he's got some stuff going on and I'm like let's get into it. I was like, you're kidding me. This was boring. Okay, so these were made in Japan. What parts were made in Japan?

We just went into it. I love that. Put down my book and we just like had a great conversation. And, you know, the New Yorker in me is like, this is what I fall in love with New York every time. I'm here for that reason because you can, you can, you can like participate with the city or you can sit back. It's there for the taking. Well, you can engage or watch. Totally.

And I like that you can do whatever you want on any given day. And I like that you got the encyclopedic coverage of the subway cars today. I really didn't realize. I was like, oh, yeah, the ones with the orange and the yellow seeds. That's different making model, right? Yeah. It's like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I had to really get it. Those are my favorite. I know. The like 70s Technicolor subway cars are my favorite. Those are usually, yeah. Those go deep. I love it. Okay, we have to take a subway ride before you go home.

Oh, indeed. I'm going to do it tonight. Honestly. Same. So tell the people. I know we're coming up on time because my poor producer is like, ladies, you're not at lunch. Stop talking. But tell the people where to find the book, where to find the audio book, even though I know it's been a minute since it came out, but it's my favorite. And about the new show.

And then I promise I'll let you go on the subway. So first, all about brains is the children's book that you can purchase on pretty much any bookseller right now, also at Simon & Schuster kids. But then, yeah, I mean, you could go into the Barnes & Noble's, as it were. You could go on a mega site, which I will not even mention. Nope. We'll go to bookshop.org. Yeah, you can go to Libra or whatever. But, yeah, you can go to a multitude of local.

small bookshops and purchase it. The strand if you're in Manhattan, one of the best. Yeah, yeah. It's actually, it's kind of, it's everywhere. And I highly recommend it. And the age range, because a lot of people ask me that, it's anywhere from like four years old to 12, basically. But obviously, you also enjoyed it. You're a full grown woman. Yeah, it made me cry, so that's cool. The age range goes well past 42, everyone. Oh, past 42. So, So, and then inside voice, my obsession with how we sound, is an audiobook that I highly recommend with Pushkin. It's still available with Malcolm Gladwell's Pushkin, but also on, I believe on audible and anywhere you can get your sort of audiobooks. So that's a fun listen, lots of really

exciting interviews and whatnot with some of the most iconic voices. And then the show that I'm doing is called the chair company with Tim Robinson, great comedian that I adore, and I'm so jazz to be a part of this series. It comes out on HBO in the fall. I can't wait. I'm so excited. So we're caught up on all of the work. And for my last question for you, it can be a work thing, but it might also be a personal thing. You've got a lot kind of cooking at the moment. When you look at the sort of landscape of life right now, what feels like your work in progress? My work in progress will be forever being a parent, I think.

Being an activist, those two are in me, whether I like it or not, on a cellular level, on a daily, from the second I wake up in the morning, as I go to sleep at night, you know, these are the, those are the two tenants of my work in progress as a person. I would say as a woman, but I think just as a person. And so I know they're both a privilege, too, you know, the privilege, as you spoke of, to evolve, but really to evolve within these tenets of activism and mothering and being what it is to be a present and I'm not going to say good mother because I think that's unfair I think just to be a present mother with love you know and I'll let you know if that changes at all I think it's really

beautiful thank you god I got a stretch yeah This is an I-Heart podcast.