Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Linsey Davis

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

ABC News Correspondent Linsey Davis wanted to be a lawyer but found herself on a different path. Now, she's an award-winning journalist who anchors ABC News Live Prime and "World News Tonight" on the weekend.  Linsey joins Sophia to talk about the moment she decided to pursue journalism and why, mentors who helped her along her journey, covering politics, and what it's like interviewing some of the biggest newsmakers in the world, including her thoughts on Hillary Clinton when the camera's stopped rolling.  Plus, besides being an accomplished journalist, Linsey is also a best-selling author! She discusses the inspiration behind her sixth children's book, "Girls of the World: Doing More Than Ever Before." See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, Whip Smarties. As you all know, I get particularly geeked when I get to interview journalists. And today's guest is an American broadcast journalist. that I respect so much. She anchors the Sunday edition of World News Tonight. She anchors ABC News Live Prime and is constantly traveling for ABC this year on the campaign trail. Today's guest

is Lindsay Davis. She graduated from Moors Town Friends School in New Jersey, earned a bachelor's degree from the University of Virginia, a master's degree in communication from New York University, and now travels the country making sure that we all know what's happening in our world. She's doing incredible election coverage this year for us. And in the absolute lack of spare time that she has, she has managed to write six children's books. Lindsay's latest book, Girls of the World, doing more than ever before,

encourages children to use their voices, talents, and intelligence to help the world and raise awareness of girls and all the amazing things that they do. And one of the things I really love about her latest book is she says she was inspired to write it by her son. She wants to make sure that both girls and boys are on the receiving end of positive messaging about women and girls and all of their capabilities.

I can't wait to hear how she managed to write this beautiful book that wrapped tears to my eyes while also making sure the rest of us know what's going on in our country. She's a superhero. Let's get to it. Well, Lindsay, I'm just so thrilled to be talking to you today. I have, like, such an Annenberg student journalism crush on brains like yours, and I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for talking with me, Sophia. I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, I have a bazillion questions I want to ask you, but I actually, rather than jumping into the things you're working on today, when guests come on the podcast, I like to ask them to take a little walk down memory lane with me, because I'm really curious to know when I sit across from someone as accomplished as yourself, if from your vantage point today, if you were to look back at your childhood and you saw

Lindsay at, say, 10 years old, do you see the through line to your career and life today? Or were you a completely different kid? That's a great question. I think, you know, I was always really curious. I was really competitive. I was really eager. I've always been kind of a take the horn, the bull by the horns kind of from kid, really. Now, I always thought early on, there were kind of like three stages of my thought as career-wise anyway. Early on, I really thought I was going to be a lawyer. I really wanted to argue cases in court, and that was definitely what I was going to do.

Then at some point, I guess early in college where my first year, I went to University of Virginia, my first year, you had to declare a major, and then I was like, oh, I'm so competitive that will it be difficult for me to have a job where a career where I'm winning and losing all the time because I would I felt like I was going to take the losses too personally and so I felt like maybe that's not going to be good for balance. Yeah. So then decided I wanted to become a psychologist. And then when I, so when I had to declare my major, I majored in psychology. And while I was at University of Virginia, I studied abroad in London at University of Westminster my third year, second semester. And that was the first time I had fulfilled

all of my college prerequisites for my major. So I was able to take anything that I wanted, and I took British literature among them, and I like a lot of writing classes. And while I was there, and this is the most unique epiphany for me that I think I've had. I was studying abroad, well, I, okay, so I was studying abroad in London, but in high school I had a Spanish exchange student. I was visiting her while I was studying abroad, and I ended up for some reason in the apartment by myself, and I was watching Las Notices.

I was watching the news in Spanish. At that point, I should have really understood Spanish really well, but I kind of did it. So it was kind of like Charlie Brown's mom. mom, like what I was hearing, like, want, want, want, want, want. But there was just this revelation that washed over me, and I was like, I want to do that. And there, like, I used to give, like, twice this happened where I was giving a toast at a wedding and people from the journalism field came up to me and they were like, you should be a reporter, you have a great voice, you have such

a good delivery and storytelling way about you. Wow. But I hadn't really thought about it at that time, but just in this particular moment, I was like, you know, I could kind of combine my interest and curiosity about people and telling their stories. And people had always said, oh, you have this great voice, you know, presenter voice. And I thought, oh, okay, I could combine those two as a journalist. And then from that day forward, I just started taking the necessary steps pursuing journalism. I mean, I feel like now it's so interesting. I kind of fell into it. Like I didn't have this, you know, when I was co-anchoring with David Muir recently, and I know from a child, he would, you know, cut out cardboard box and present as a TV in his living room. And he knew

early on. And I didn't have that same drive, you know, for this and passion for this industry early on. But once it hit me, it was just like no turning back. And ideally, like this has been, I couldn't have thought of a better industry now that I'm in it like this is ideal for me that's so cool well that's another sort of totality right like the the aha moment for you was really clarifying it really was I and I guess I'm just that kind of person too where I get a mindset and there is no like I'm very focused I love that and and yes so it was it was just very clear and it just combined a bunch of things I love writing. I love public speaking. I love talking to people about their stories and just now it's so ideal. And I never was going to be a good like office person or cubicle person who's just

sitting in front of a computer all day. That just wouldn't have fit me very well. So it's ended up really working out. That's very cool. When you first started your career, were there folks you really looked up to in the journalism world? Or did you have like a mentor in your particular office. You know, it's funny. Many of my mentors never knew they were my mentors. So, you know, once I decided that I really wanted to get into this, I really did start paying attention to Barbara Walters and Oprah. Carol Simpson was always kind of on the TV on the weekends in our house and our local news was always on. And there are certain names of people who I really paid particular attention to but I looked up to them you know in the way of I'd how I'd watch like a

Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters interview how they their style but I didn't know them but I considered them to be mentors um Carol Simpson now we actually have a relationship which I think is so cool because she used to anchor world news on ABC news on the weekends and now I anchor on Sunday social text after the shows and give me her reviews and it's really and it's really really fun because she she really was a special mentor for me and so to have this full circle moment with her to actually be able to pick her brain about things is is just fantastic oh I love that I know what you mean you know I think for me the impact I experienced watching Oprah as a kid

is really it's what led me to start a podcast I thought is that right someone for an hour and ask questions. Like, I just want to do that. I want to ask people about their lives. And, and I really think it was her influence for me that as this sort of particular vertical of media developed made me go, oh, that, that feels like my version of the thing I was the most inspired by as a kid. I have to imagine she influenced countless young people. Right. And maybe older people too. You know? And she, and it's so interesting when I look at the through line, as you were mentioning before, for people like Barbara Walters, Oprah Winfrey, Carol Simpson, they all talk about how they heard so many knows, how it was like what they wanted to do was so out of the ordinary,

impossible, and how all of them kind of fed off of that. And that, you know, I mean, Carol has talked about and wrote in her book and so did Barbara Walters about, you know, how they kind of, well, Carol in particular, said how she, you know, ate, eight nose for breakfast. And that, like, healed her. And it was like, you think I can't, I'm going to prove you wrong. And so I just look at that, right, for all of them in their various, you know, different obstacles that they had, different hurdles that were unique to them. But I find them also inspiring. And to your point, I just think as so many people have been inspired by Oprah Winfrey, no doubt. I mean, she was in living rooms probably in a way that most people were not.

How do you think, because, you know, you talk about these trailblazers, you see how their stories really connect to those of us in our generation who, you know, whether it's a hobby side hustle like mine or a literal. incredible journalistic career like yours. You know, we, we know what women kicked the doors open for us. And sometimes I wonder about, you know, being able to occupy these amazing seats. In a way, it adds some pressure about the way you've got to perform and the way you've got to show up. And I wonder very often, for folks like yourself, you know, the news cycle now is 24-7. You're expected to be everywhere all the time. You're expected to be well-versed on everything all the time.

And, you know, you're also really proud to be here. And are there moments where it also hits you the toughness of it? You know, the human side of how emotional some of these stories can be and how heavy the news can be, how do you find the way to sort of balance your experience as a human that's affected by all of this and your pride and intellect as a journalist who is ready to go all the time. You know, I think there are kind of two different answers that I have for that. And one is it is so nice, like when we were covering the eclipse, just to talk about something that's refreshing and humanizes us all and gives us something to be awestruck about in a positive way where we're not covering, you know, the mayhem and destruction and death and murder or war, these, you know,

heavy issues. I always try and find a way to balance, and I'm taking your question in two different ways, but for me personally, because it is so heavy, I do think I liken, because I get this a similar question often in that, I liken what I do to, and maybe this is, maybe an ER doctor would say you were totally wrong. But I think I would imagine the first few times that they came in and treated their first person with like bullet wounds or lost their first patient or, you know, just saw the trauma in its most raw, pure form that it was probably like, whoa, this is heavy. This is a lot. But this is what I find up for. And now let me put my head down and do the job.

And I think after, well, it's not that you become desensitized to it, but you start to almost normalize I guess that this is the baseline of my job and this is what I can expect every day so you're not like blown away by it right but it's still there are still stories that stick with me and people I remember years later and those times where you are really for me choking back the tears you know of a mom who's you know lost their child or you know I mean there's so many different scenarios I can I can bring up that I really find touching in and a lot of it for me I have a son who's now 10 and when I became a mother things started hitting differently you know school shootings just these moments that at one point where it was like it's about them and in a way

it I think makes me a better reporter when you realize it's about us and and I started kind of you know feeling that that's really beautiful and the other direction I would say with regard to women in particular and doing the job and realizing there's so much on the line I have to go back to and this is something that's really nice like I was preparing

we had gotten up to the day before of doing a presidential debate that I was going to moderate this year and it ended up being canceled because Nikki Haley had decided she wasn't going to debate Ron DeSantis anymore if Donald Trump wasn't going to be on the stage and

and Carol Simpson texted me Simply, you know I know. And we then, that started a conversation because there are very few people who would know in that moment like what it's like to prepare in such a way for something that then doesn't happen when you were feeling a lot of pressure because we had talked before about when she moderated her first presidential debate, she was the first woman of color to ever do so. and she talked about how she had women who were like reaching out to her saying don't let us down and she said and then she had black people who were reaching out to her like don't let us down and she said in some way she felt like it wasn't about like she was like just for me on a personal level as an individual I wanted to succeed but now I had a whole race that was on top of me and I had a whole gender that was you know I was carrying this week and it can feel like a

burden, I think of the two bees, really, it's like half burden, half blessing, right? Because it's a gift to be able to be the face or at the forefront of, you know, whatever, be the first in some way. But there's also many times, I think when you're a minority, and that might be by race or gender or religion, a number of different ways for sexuality, I think sometimes you feel like, gosh, if I feel they're going to close the door for the next person. Right. And as a black woman, you know, I do feel that weight still. That if I somehow am a disappointment, it's not just for Lindsay Davis.

It's not just for the Davis family, but it is for, you know, perhaps the black community, perhaps for women. And so there is a different, it hits a little differently. And I'm always mindful of that. And that's why it is nice to have, you know, going back to your original point about the kind of mentor. It is nice to be able to commiserate and have a conversation with someone who's been there and who knows, you know? And that's why it felt so good just to get her text when she said, you know, I know. Because she did. And there are very few people sometimes who can relate.

And so sorry for the long-winded two-direction answer, but it kind of just struck those two chords with me. No, I really love it. And I appreciate it. I think the specificity of experience is something that as I've aged, I've realized, is so important. And, you know, I saw it back in the day when my mom was ill. And it's like her doctor said, make sure you have a support group. And she said, I have great friends. And he said, no, no, no. You need a support group of other people that are also on chemo. Because nobody knows how it makes you feel like somebody who's also on it. And I've seen that with, you know, friends that are pregnant at the same time with their first babies. And I've seen it with friends in my friend group going through divorces. Like, you need people who are going through what you're going through. And when you are often the first or one of one in a room, like you have been in so many ways, you need those women who did their version before you to help you process those feelings. You know, that's such a real thing.

you should just be able to show up as Lindsay as a journalist, but you are showing up as a woman, as a woman of color. Like there are these added identities because of histories of oppression that many of us have gone through in our own ways that change your experience. It's different for you than it was for Walter Cronkite. It just is. That's really, that's so cool that you have somebody who even knew to send you that message. Right. And I can't agree with you more in that I was thinking when you were talking about with your mom and going through chemo, when I had my son, I ended up with preeclampsia the day that I went into labor. And I had not had high blood pressure during the whole pregnancy, but that day it was an issue. And my blood pressure still wasn't going down even after I

delivered and they had to keep me in the hospital extra time. And I ended up, there was a male coworker I had whose wife had had a baby, maybe a few months before mine, and she had had preeclampsia. And that was the first time I had heard of it or knew anybody to have it. So I reached out to him, and I was just like, I feel like everything that happens to me, like, I'm looking it up and WebMD is not your friend, you know, because it's like anything that happened. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm about to die. Yeah, anything on WebMD leads to cancer.

It's bad. Yes, yes. And I have to give so much credit to his wife who really was like, Lindsay, I felt the same way like as I was saying I really wanted to get out of the hospital and as soon as now I'm home I feel like I should be back in the hospital and I just I don't know I feel like I'm about to die and I'm going to stroke out and she was like we did the same thing I told Jay stop the car turn around let's go back to the hospital but anyway I was kind of like okay so it's okay that I feel crazy it's okay that I'm feeling you know having these thoughts and she had that empathy to say yeah I was there

and I just I just so agree with with what you're saying and many people I've you know, I've talked about before having a preeclampsia and then as a result, that postpartum anxiety and people were like, well, why are you sharing it? And I was like, because someone else sharing it, like, saved me. And so I want other people to, again, to try to kind of normalize. And I think that that's so important, as you pointed out, just in all facets of our life, to know, like, you're not the first person to go through this, you know? Somebody else has felt this way and done this and had this reaction and it's it is so reassuring yeah that's really special we'll be back in just a minute but here's a word from our sponsors and you know I think people can forget

with people that are in positions like you they look at you as being like top of your game top of the world right really you know you know probably unaffected and you're like No, no, I still need a whole support system, maybe even more because you're going through these things while also shouldering this career, this responsibility, but, you know, moderating presidential debates. How do you even prepare for something like that? Obviously, whether it, you know, gets pulled as an event or not. Like, what is that process like for you as a journalist? Where do you even begin? Well, we have a great team. And fortunately, I had done it twice before. So I would say that first time I was doing it, I was just like all nerves, you know? But I just preparation was the only thing that could kind of get me out of that. And so I all of a sudden on that day, I mean, I had prayed, I had researched and I just had like a calm and a confidence the first day that I did it back in 2019. So I felt like this now, was going to be my third time and it just felt like, okay, now we, we know. So what are the topics that we really want to cover? How are we going to divide it up between the other moderators? And then it's kind of like just having people who will do some really deep dives on the research on, let's say we're

talking about abortion or gun control. Like what is like, give me every comment, every statement that that person has ever made about abortion. Tell me everything they've ever said about gun control. And that way, you know, we can say, well, you know, five years ago, you said this, but now on the campaign trail, you said this, how do you square those two thoughts, you know? So a lot of it is just kind of really knowing somebody's stance and maybe how it's shifted over time and just really just kind of trying to pin down someone's belief somebody's, you point of view. When you think about all these interviews that you've prepped and researched and been so

ready for, is there one, it could be presidential or otherwise, is there one that stands out for you as being one of the most memorable moments of your career? Again, I have such a hard time just giving you one answer. I know, I'm sorry. I feel like it's like asking a parent to pick their favorite child or something. You're like, what? Well, one thing that I'll say, there are two series that I, one that I created and one that I brought back, revived from Charlie Gibson and Peter Jennings. So theirs that they had done years ago was called Who Is? And they sat down with all the presidential candidates and they wouldn't ask any political questions. So it was really more about like, so tell me what it was like being a middle child. You know, tell me.

me what when you were in college you aspire to be, you know, like, how did you know when you were first falling in love with your wife? You know, it was just like getting to know the character rather than their politics because we all knew kind of, for the most part, we know kind of what people think about guns and abortion and war or whatever it might be. So this was really getting to know the person. And so we had a chance to do that this past election cycle. And that was really interesting to me because I really, like to just get to know people. And so that's an overarching general.

And then one that I had done years ago that running mates and I only talked to the spouses. I sat down and did interviews because this is the person who knows them best. And you're not just getting like the sound bite, the stump speech or whatever. You know, you're really like, what does he like as a dad or what does she like as mom, you know, Or what, you know, you're just kind of getting those intimate details about a person. But to answer in a specific way, and just because I have a political mind still on at this particular moment, one thing I thought was fascinating.

And this interview I did was March of 2020 with Hillary Clinton. So it was after she was, you know, no longer in contention for her president. It was all over. She wasn't going to run anymore. And she, you know, and Donald Trump had just. become president and my husband and I are in the process of running

a half marathon in each state and right before it just so happened because I was interviewing her on a Monday and I think that Saturday we had run in Little Rock Arkansas. Little Rock Arkansas is where Bill Clinton's library is and the airport

is named after Bill and Hillary Clinton. So while we're getting situated and everything which can be My favorite part of the interview is before we start, the official interview. And while we're getting micced up and the lights are getting adjusted, you know, you're just kind of getting to know the person, just very, the introduction. Yeah.

And so I was telling her, you know, I was just in Arkansas and saw the library and this and that. And she was asking, well, what brought you there? I was telling her about the half marathon. And then it was over and, you know, you always have the handlers who are pulling somebody away and like, okay, that's it. no more time. And what I thought was so fascinating about Hillary Clinton was her hamlers were trying to whisk her away. And then she just sat there and said, so where's your next half marathon?

And I was saying, you know, oh, it's in Denver, Colorado. And she said, you know, if you can, you should get there a little early because the altitude, you might have difficult running. And the fascinating thing about it wasn't the interview with her. It was her as a human being because I always was kind of so known that she'd, she'd, struggled, at least from perception anyway, as, like, she wasn't this, like, human person, you know? And I found this really striking, and this is politics aside, this was not about, again, her stance on whatever. It was just like she was very maternal.

She was very interested. She was very engaging. She has this great laugh and funny. And I felt like she never was able to get that across to the American people. So that was just, as far as political interviews, that was one that came to mind as one that stood out to me after, where I was like, wow, she's really such a human. And I think that we never, many felt we never got to see that, that side of her. Yeah. That's really special because she is.

She's so kind and funny. And you realize people don't really know. Right. And I think that does speak to the. immense pressure particularly put on women and especially women with ambition. Yes. Yes. You know, there's such an incredible amount of judgment. And it makes me curious about your latest project, which isn't about, you know, your news career. You're writing children's books and you wrote this beautiful book called Girls of the World, doing more than ever before. And I find it really

special that you talk about how important it is not only to make sure girls see themselves as capable but to show boys that girls are also capable and so do you think that your own journey as a woman in this sort of space of rarefied air and you know having interviewed women like her who faced you know gender oppression like has all of that led to you wanting to write this book or was it something else that inspired you all together? You know, it was really kind of a number of things that came into play. This is my six children's book. My son had really, in one way or another, inspired the first five.

And indirectly, I guess I could say that he inspired this one. Because I started realizing early on, because, you know, he's only 10 now, but he has very definite ideas of that's for girls, this is for boys. there is a separation of church and state there are boxes and and that was interesting because that wasn't something that I felt we were talking about at home I mean this was even like I remember taking him to a birthday party when he was maybe four and it was a little girls party and at the end she gave out party bags that were pink and purple and even though there was really cool stuff inside he was like I don't want that bag pink and purple those are for those are for girls

like and he just has had and over the years and I've kind of tried to push back and challenge him on you know where do you think like why do you think that that you're never going to cook you don't have to learn how to cook that that's for girls that's for your wife to do you know like huh um but I think that that's so strong in society and boys get affirmation every day and in a way that girls don't and just to play off of that particular word that you use with regard to Hillary Clinton, ambition. I think that that's like a dirty word when it's applied to a woman. But for a man, it's great for a man to be ambitious, you know.

But a woman who has drive and, you know, she can be construed. It's like she's too bossy, you know. It's negative. And so I really, it became important to me to have positive associations with girls from an early age that's plant these seeds of positivity with, let's be bold let's be strong let's be brave and those are all words that we tend to hear associated with boys yeah and i just felt that my own parents were able to do a really great job and pouring into me this belief that i could do whatever i wanted in life and somehow i believed

them um you know i just there was there was never a consideration that i couldn't and i just feel that there are a lot of parents who want their kids to have that same thing and they may be pouring it into them or they may not, you know, perhaps this is for the child who isn't hearing this anywhere else, isn't getting it anywhere else, or it's for the child who

this is just going to be a reinforcement. But either way, I just think that it's so necessary and it's even like I said for my own son, it's important for him to read a book like this. I think that people see this book and think it's

entirely for girls. And I would say, you know, it's just like for all of my books, leading up to this, this is super inclusive. I mean, and we have girls who are all different colors, all different, you know, two who are in wheelchairs, one who has a prosthetic leg, different religions. It's so important. And this has always been for me to be inclusive in my books. But I often think that we are, as a society, so quick to, we, want to digest and understand things by putting them into boxes. There's not a lot of gray in society. And so like my first few books, for example, had black and brown characters. And I think that quite often people thought, oh, well, these are just four black and brown kids. And this couldn't

be further from the truth because quite often, I think, you know, one, for me growing up and for my own son, we have books with all different colors of characters, you know. And I think that that's important, especially for people who live in an area that may not be so diverse. I think that one easy way to dispel all these isms that we have, whether it's sexism or racism, is to put a book or a toy, a doll in a child's hands of somebody who doesn't look like them, so that it's not unfamiliar. So because quite often we fear what we don't know. And so anyway, it's another very long question. I'm realizing that I'm super long winded because, you know what? So, yet like rarely am I I'm always the one asking the questions I'm yeah that I'm answering

questions and now I guess I have all of this pent up to to put out there um into the world but but yeah I just wanted girls to have that affirmation and not you know when you hear like oh you throw like a girl like that's a bad thing but boys will be boys and that's an okay that's like anything that they do is acceptable and I just felt like it was kind of time to to change that I love that and now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. And I think, you know, words, as you're saying, like ambitious, I loved that when you talked about reflecting on your childhood, one of the words you used to describe yourself was competitive, because a competitive nature is also something that's really

judged in women and in girls. And I mean, we've, we've seen it even with the sort of hysteria around some of our greatest athletes, the Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark narratives out in the world. I was like, hello, these women are gladiators. Let them be these top-of-class athletes and respect them for it. You know, and it was astonishing to me that college-age women had to say, we don't have beef, but we are competing when we're on the court. Like, y'all, know that, right? I was like, this is a trip that they are having to give people a lesson in women's athletic ability while they're in the midst of March Madness. Like, are we really doing this? We're really acting like these girls aren't competitive out there? And we never do that with

males. I mean, can you think of a synonymous scenario? I can't where, you know, we were hitting these two males against each other in this way. And it seems like it's a false narrative, you know, when you hear the two of them talk about it. Absolutely. And I think it's important to hear them speak on it. Just like I think it's so important for you to talk about the fact that you wrote this book because of what you saw and that, yes, the book is for little girls, but it's for little boys too. It's so important that we begin to see each other as more whole beings capable of all sorts

of ambition and feeling and emotion. And I do think the younger we get to learn that, the less we have to unlearn in our adulthood. Exactly. Yes. I've thought that with regard to, again, all the isms. Kids don't start out with these ideas of what's good and what's better and what's different. You know, I always think of my own son when he would go off to summer camp and he's meeting kids for the first time. He would never come home and say, tell me somebody's race or religious. or viewpoint, it was like, they love Legos too. They love Star Wars too.

Kids often think about what we have that unites us rather than as adults. I think we often think about what we have that separates and makes us different. And kids look with better eyes, you know, and it's something that I think that adults have to try and rethink and get back to the basics of just that pure way of looking at the people around. us and the world around us. Yeah. Well, that means girls of the world is for all of us, too, not just the kiddos in our life. Exactly. Yes. And I'm always mindful of the parents who are reading to the kids, that there's going to be a good little takeaway message for them as well. Indeed. As you look at your year ahead, and in particular for you as an incredible journalist, I imagine the election is a big part of it. What feels like your work in progress for 2024?

You know, I really need to find more balance. That is something that I've really been trying to be extra mindful of this year in particular. Because, you know, I'm realizing as we just celebrated my son's 10th birthday that, you know, in theory, like in eight years from now he's going to be in college and out of the house. And so we've actually had more time with him living with us than. remains on the clock for us. And it's just going so fast that I really want to be more present for him. And for me, in turn, I think quite often I have a hard time saying no. And that is something I'm trying to get better at just to not cram my life.

I tend to put on this cape and try and be superwoman and get everything done. and fit it all in, and then everything just ends up being rush, rush, rush, and task, test, task, and cross it off. And so that's my work in progress is getting a little more breathing room into my life and primarily being able to, you know, go for the little runs that I like that clear my head and go to the school activities and really just be more present. Yeah, a little breathing room. I love that. Thank you so much. I hope we get to do this again sometime. This was fun. I hope that I didn't, you know, give you too many answers. No, you're perfect. Thank you. Thank you for the time.

Thank you.