Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Malika Andrews

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Let's take a moment to applaud Malika Andrews for breaking a glass ceiling in the sports industry! She's the first woman to ever host the NBA Draft, and also one of the youngest sideline reporters for an NBA conference finals telecast, plus the youngest to host the NBA Finals Trophy ceremony . . . and she's only just begun! The Emmy-winning journalist joins Sophia for a frank chat about her meteoric rise in a male-dominated field. She candidly discusses the impact of being the only Black girl in her class for most of her childhood, how her love of writing led her to sports journalism, and how she approaches maintaining a professional relationship with the players she covers, even during disagreements or uncomfortable moments. Malika also opens up about the struggle to maintain a healthy work-life balance, her 'quirky' hobbies, and her funny response to Sophia's most pressing question - can she watch basketball just for fun?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, friends, and particularly today, fellow sports fans, we have someone in the hot seat at Work in Progress today that I am so excited about. I am sitting down with ESPN's Malika Andrews. She made her debut as a sideline reporter during the 2019 and 2020 season. And in 2021, at just 26 years old, she became the youngest sports broadcaster to host the NBA finals trophy ceremony. She then made history again in 2022 as the first woman to ever host the NBA draft. She's won an outstanding personality, emerging on-air talent, sports Emmy.

She's appeared across multiple platforms on the Disney family of networks from GMA to SportsCenter to ESPN.com and radio. And prior to joining ESPN, she worked for both the Chicago Tribune and the New York Times. I am so jazzed to ask Malika all of my nerdy fellow journalist questions about how she studied, how she has achieved so much at such a young age. And my most pressing question perhaps, which is, can she watch basketball just for fun? on. Let's dive in with Malika Andrews. Hello. Hello. How are you? I'm well. Thanks. How are you?

I am doing just fine things. Are you from L.A. originally? I'm not. I'm from Northern California. I'm from Oakland. I was born and raised in Oakland. I went to boarding school in Utah, but I was raised in the Bay Area. and then I went to college in Portland, moved to New York, Chicago, L.A. So that was my winding major metropolitan city road. I love it. I was in Portland when my little sister, who is two and a half years younger than me,

called me and said, you know, there's a fun little television show I think you should watch. and that's when I was introduced, Brooke introduced us, your character introduced us, I guess. So my first experience with you and your work was her. And so watching you there and seeing everything that you have done and become since then has really been. I told Kendra that I was going to do this today. And she was like, oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Life kind of comes in these circles.

And so I think that that's really a very cool thing for me. Oh, that's so neat. Thank you so much for sharing that. And hello to Kendra. I love that nice little connection. Yeah. I'm so curious, what was it that made you want to go into, I mean, journalism, first and foremost, but sports journalism, because my weird winding path.

Yeah, we all have a weird winding. I went to school for theater, and then the theater department felt a little restrictive for me, and I wound up studying journalism alongside theater. And that really, I think, activated me as a storyteller, as an activist, as a writer, you know, all these things. And I can see how it all connects now. And I wonder for you, where did the journalism passion come from? So it's funny you say connects now because I think the things that I'm going to say about how it connected are not what I was thinking at all in the moment. What I knew at the time, I went to boarding school.

And I felt like I had missed out on high school because I went to, and I'm talking 20 kids going to individualized schooling where you go and you are going to school in a classroom and you work on your binder and you flip through it and you have to take three tests a week to stay on track. And that sort of was the experience of what it was. And so when I got to college, I really, I wanted to do college. I wanted to really stop missing out. And I was someone who, like, deeply, deeply feared FOMO. I deeply feared missing out. I deeply feared being left out. I deeply feared being different.

And now I kind of see all of that is I was the only black girl in my class growing up, except for Amina Lukman. And, you know, the education that I have, I always sort of felt like I didn't quite fit in, but I then for me it was just this drive of I want to go to parties. I never went to prom. I want to make friends because all of the friends that I had before I left for boarding school, they didn't carry through with me because I sort of just disappeared one day and didn't come back. And that feels like the end of the world when you're 14, 15, 16, 17 years old. Yes. So I was, I went to college, I think, with a loneliness that I was

looking to fill. And I was really lucky that I made a very good friend, Claire Duffy, in my freshman Dats class that I was terrible at. And she worked for the school paper. I always love to write. And that writing, though, was journaling for me when I was in high school. And I'm so glad I did to be able to sort of look back and see what I was thinking at that time because it was so different than what so many people in our country, how high school looks. But I knew I wanted to write. I knew I was good at capturing feelings with written words because I had the time to go over them and probably the time to perfect them a little bit before I shared them with people.

But I had no idea what I wanted that to be. I just knew, I was told I was bad at math, and so I believed that, and I felt I was good at writing. And so I kind of went with that. And because I had a friend who worked for the school paper, that's sort of the direction I went. And then at some point, I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but if I was going to be the odd one out anyway, let me be the person to decide it. And so in sports, I was so used to being the first and the only that in that space, I said, well, at least I know I'm walking to it into this as that. You know, there's only one other black woman covered in basketball in the country. And it was just at the time when newsrooms were starting to see that as a problem. And it's like, well, this thing that has been a problem for me, you're telling me that that's something that now people are saying,

this, this is an asset. I don't even know if that makes sense. Like, that's how I think about it now. Wow. There's so much I relate to in what you're saying. I went to an all-girls school, 55 girls in my graduating class. It's why I wanted to go to USC. It's why I wanted to experience Greek life. It's why I went to the games on Saturdays. The whole experience. And it was why, in a weird way, going and shooting my show, it was my first high school experience. I'd never had one. Yeah. And I know how much in my bones, I feel what you're saying, the intensity of the FOMO I had at that stage, at that age in my life, all of it. And I still just experienced that as a girl who didn't have what I thought was the normal experience. I wasn't experiencing it as the only black girl in my class or my boarding school or my, you know, like I know how hard it was for me to get over that loneliness.

And I was still not as isolated in my identity as you're explaining. So it's like I feel it so deeply I could cry. And I'm also like I know how hard it was for me and it wasn't nearly as hard for me as it was for you. And my God, like it's it's deep. You said you're, you know, the loneliness that you used to experience, Can you, it was only recently that I started to feel good about, not even wanting to be alone, but wanting to do what I enjoy doing, which isn't necessarily the hobbies that are expected of me or the things that are expected of me, and being okay with that, of being like

something. I'm like, what are your, what are your quirky hobbies? I'm dying to know. For spec riding. I have been an avid equestrian my entire life, and that's another space where there's just not a lot of people who look like me that do it. And I've found pockets, right? Like there's the Compton Cowboys here in Los Angeles that are really, really cool and awesome. And I am not that cool and not that awesome.

But horseback riding and skiing and like that's what my family did and enjoyed doing. but I just didn't see that as an option to live out loud without judgment, which sounds so silly. I recognize like how silly that sounds, but that's how it felt to me because that sport was reserved for an affluence that my family didn't have. My dad just so happened to be a ski patrolman. Like that it wasn't, it wasn't, and there was assumptions that were made based on

that that I didn't feel comfortable with because I already felt so different. And so I think that only very recently and still sometimes I find myself asking, you know, do people really want to know this about you or just because you don't post it? It doesn't mean it's not something that is a huge part of your life and existence, you know, all of this stuff. Of course. Absolutely. And look, I think, and we're all guilty of it, right? We assume that because so much is online, so much is in our faces, that we know so much and we know so little. We have no idea what's going on in people's lives. We have no idea what people's days actually look like. You know, we just have no idea when I think about how little the world really knows versus. versus how full and complex and beautiful and tragic and all of the things my life is. I know that's true for all of us, but I do think it's so special when you start to listen

to what your soul wants. And, you know, it's interesting you say that because my best friend has been getting back to a barn that she rides at in Detroit. Right. And it's something I really want to get back to doing too. And, you know, very similarly to you, it comes with this sort of assumption. And, you know, I didn't grow up in like a fancy riding world by any means, but I grew up for a portion of my life around horses. And the sort of like normalcy and the cowboy culture is so great is something that, you know, I think it's okay to say I want to do that more than I want to do this other thing that everyone wants to do. But I know what it's like to want to do the thing everyone's doing when you haven't had it. And I certainly did. It was why I chose such a big college. It was why, you know, I think in some ways I was able to play a high school kid when I would have been graduating college because I was that naive because I'd never had the experience. Right. You know. you're tapping into that, that thing. And I still, you know, honestly, up until maybe in the last five to seven years, when people asked me, where did you go to high school? I had to fight the instinct to want to lie. Because it's something that's very basic. You know, you said, where did you,

where'd you grow up? I grew up in Oakland. Oh, I grew up in the Bay Area, too. Where'd you go to high school? It's the natural next question that somebody else. Looking for community, right? And, no ill intent, but looking for community and something to bond over. And for me, that opened up a whole new chapter of my life that I wasn't always sure how I felt about. And when I talk about college, sometimes even I went to the University of Portland. I went to the university. Why did you choose the University of Portland? I went to the University of Portland because I had class sizes of six people and I hadn't taken in the SATs. And so coming off of that experience, small class sizes and something that felt

like I could re-assimilate and take tight sizes of was really important. And when I went to the university, it was beautiful. And the professors were interesting. And all of those things existed. But I didn't even allow myself to think about what a bigger school could look like because I was scared. I was scared that I was going to be outed as someone who didn't come through the same path as everybody else, and therefore I was weird. And the last thing I wanted after being different for so long was to be the weird girl. And so that sort of narrowed my focus very, very quickly. And I am so glad that I went to UP and that I joined the school paper and that I became a sports writer. And I love what I do. But it's interesting, the stories we tell ourselves and we've repeated so very often

about our journey, sort of just become your go-to truth. And every once in a while, sometimes you have to pause and maybe re-examine, are those the stories that have just been coming out for so long? Or is there something else there? And for me, it's probably a little bit about it. Well, and not a lot of people choose their university, perhaps, because they're healing from something. That's true. But you're talking about your healing journey. And I think one of the things that doesn't get talked about a lot is that healing can also be really painful. And it's important and it's beautiful. I mean, my God, I've been through such a period of this in the last couple of years in my own life. And, you know, I'm 40. Like, I'm in my 40s. I'm an adult. And I'm still working on

things. And I think when you find yourself wanting to maybe tell that bigger truth to say the things, oh, these things I was processing at the time were influencing my decision, I think that's kind of a mark of healing. I think that's a mark of, like, self-acceptance and a kindness to yourself. And how special that this thing that you were working on processing, not wanting to feel weird, not wanting to, you know, jump into too big of a pool at the time is exactly what led you to find your voice and find your writing and find sport and find all these things. Like, the thing that you might have looked at as a self-protective decision actually opened the doors to your whole life in a way.

Yeah. So how cool. The beautiful trips of life, right? Like, that's sort of how these things, when you're lucky, and I am so very lucky, you know, that's one of the things that I get to have happen. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. Well, and it's crazy too to hear about some of those things and then think about where you are today, you know, the list of accolades that we can read that, you know, we do in the intro for every guest who comes on the show. And it's like, I think about what I'm learning about you as a person. And then also the fact that, You're a literal history maker. I mean, you're the first woman who's ever hosted the NBA draft. And if I know anything about women, you know, knocking down doors and breaking glass ceilings, it's that no one's trying to give us any power. It's always something we have to fight for. It's always something we have to, you know, be twice as good as the men to get. And yet you managed to do it. You cracked it. How, as the sports journalist you are today, how, how, how,

did you overcome whatever obstacles were like laid in the minefield in front of you to to get there? What was it like to find out that you were going to do this? Because this was just in 2022, you know, it's like it's essentially yesterday. Yeah, it's, it's funny how time works. How did I do it? I stood on the shoulders of the women who came before me. I mean, truly, there's, I find that no one is able to um history is long and it's winding and no one makes it alone you may be the one who is the person who is the face of the change um but it's because um of doris burke who was able who became the first woman to ever call the NBA finals and was already on that trajectory It's because of all of the women who had put in that work that I was then able to sort of be the beneficiary of.

It's also working really hard and being good. And I think that it sometimes amazes me the ease in which I love when a player tells me they're the best. I'm the best at what I do because it comes out with such an ease. that I actually, like, I genuinely, that's admirable, that oftentimes the, in the sports world, like saying out loud, well, because I'm the best and I expect the best of me, that's something that I don't do. And we as women are not conditioned to do. But sports is. Sports is about beating your chest. And sports is about who is the best. And there are winners and there are losers. And that may make some people uncomfortable. And so I always admire when there's an ease

in which athletes say that. Now there's a conversation to be had about when women athletes say that, you know, what the response has been. Oh, yeah. Which is silly. But I think that that's it. It's like you don't, you don't do these things alone. But what was it like?

It was really cool. I was proud of myself. You know, I think that being able to put my messes into, a neat package that I could put a bow on and say, here, look what I did. That felt really good. And to my perfectionist self, who needs a reason for everything for so many years, right, when I was going through stuff. And by the way, this isn't, I've said this before. This isn't like a before and after story. I've got tough days. You know, now I think we all do. But I was asked so many times what's wrong? And I didn't have an answer a lot of the time. It was just like I just feel

this thing that's too big to put a name on. To be able to have a name to all of it, right, to put it in a neat package of, well, I went to boarding school and I overcame these things and here I am doing this. For someone who needs things to be neat and needs things to come out right and to do the right thing. That in itself felt a little bit like a bomb that then allowed me to go back and re-explore some things that I hadn't already. Wow, that's really cool. So it's interesting because I mean, you're talking about processing in real time how certain achievements in your career allow you to go back and kind of reshift how things feel in your life and in your past, which again speaks to me on such a deep level where I go, oh, now I get that.

Right. I get that phase. I get what I put up with at that time. I get what I was seeking at that time, whatever it might have been. You know, there is such an added layer of pressure in any version of a public career. So as you're processing your very personal life, you're also doing it publicly. as an on-air personality, how do you handle the pressure that comes with the forward-facing parts of the job while you're both moving up the ranks in your career and also like

reaching back for these past versions of yourself that you're, you know, re-parenting, re-caring for, re-experiencing with. Like, how do you handle all of that? Some days I don't. Cool, cool, me neither, glad it's not just me. Right? Like, yeah, like some days I don't. But no, I think that for me, it's, I have therapy at 7 o'clock every Monday. And it's a little bit late. And I always feel like I need, but I need to make sure that I can fit it in. I don't, I don't have a neat answer to this. I'm like searching for the way to describe this. And the best that I can do it is saying that. every day it looks a little bit different. I'm in a really good stretch right now. I feel really lucky to get the do the job that I do with the people that I do it, particularly with everything

going on in Los Angeles right now. Anytime something like that happens, it sort of recenters you on what's important. I have the most incredible support system of work wives, of best friends, of the sweetest, kindest, funniest. Don't tell him, I said that most supportive husband in the entire world. And like I have this army of people that I can turn to that when I don't feel like I can, they remind me how.

And that looks a little different every day. But finding those places in between. I mean, I am, I'm not the hour that I spend on TV every day. I'm sure, like, I'm curious how this is for you, because when people have a, not only a perception of, of you, but also perceptions of a character you play, or maybe they don't even know you're, they call you the name of somebody that you've portrayed, how do you decide I have been put into this box, I want to let people know me because I think, I think I'm liking who I've become, but I'm almost afraid to put that version out because what

if other people don't like it? And I think that that's something that everybody sort of even more in like a social media world has to contend with. And that's sort of what I've, I've asked myself really hard questions. I've looked at the mistakes that I've made. I try to be better. Not all of that work is out loud, but it is loud in my own head and the space that I kind of take up and giving yourself permission to make those mistakes, to get back up, to have a bad day, to come back better, to say I'm sorry, to say, you know what, I did pretty good. All of those things are a radical act of self-love that I didn't have in my toolbox even a couple of years ago. And I think the thing about having to look at yourself, for me, having to

look at myself so intensely at such a young age, going to therapeutic boarding school, not just any boarding school, but being in sort of this group therapy environment, I wondered if I was the best version I could be. I did so much work on myself. And yet all of these things I still would like to improve. But maybe I just am, this is as good as I'm in a get because I did all this work. And I had to retune that to say, well, just because you worked really hard in like an intense environment for a concentrated amount of time, doesn't mean you don't deserve to get to go back and do it again. But I was afraid going back meant that I wouldn't be able to have normalcy. So I don't even know if I answered your question, but that's the pinball machine that

sort of is my brain when I'm trying to figure all of this out. No, I totally get that. And then not trip when I do it. Because if you trip, people say, ha, ha, you tripped. Oh, yeah. There waiting for you to trip. And so then I'm also trying not to be the person. And I'm trying to not be the person when somebody trips to say, ha-ha. Like, yeah. Well, I think it's really important. And look, I think anyone who's been through anything knows what it is to keep up appearances while you're trying to figure out your life. I think one of the greatest sort of moments for me of coming to terms with trying to do everything right and being so unhappy was not only having the wherewithal to admit that to myself, but really I think I was saved, as you said, by my community of women.

Because as it was happening to me, it was happening to a bunch of friends around me. And when I realized we were all in versions of the same boat and we were all in similar pain and we all had made it look so good and it wasn't it was in a weird way it gave me permission like when my best friend called me you know my best friend who is my sister she is my family her son is my godson like she is my person and when she was like I can't do this life I built anymore and I was like I can't either and then another friend called and another friend called and another friend called, and everybody was, I was like, wait a second, I'm not failing. I'm just having to admit that I'm not happy.

And weirdly, the way that I wanted to love my people through their unhappiness made me realize I deserved to be loved through mine as well. But isn't it interesting when you see your stuff reflected in somebody else, your response, anyone's response is usually compassion, but to yourself? It's judgment. Yeah. Because you look at your own, you know, quote, shortcomings. It's like, oh, I'm failing.

But when a friend is in pain or a friend is struggling, you're like, oh, my God, you're struggling. I'll do anything I can to help you. Yeah. And so it is really interesting. And I think for me, figuring out how to help my people made me help myself in a better way. And what it really did as well was it forced me to say, why do I care what anyone else thinks of me? All these people were cheering for me when I was miserable. And if they're not going to cheer for me getting free or getting happy, what is the cheering mean?

Right. And so I think, I don't know, I think when you have things to, you know, heal from or process, which clearly we both do. And I actually think everybody does. I think we are, we are fortunate. Our generation has, has access to the language and the tools about mental health in ways that prior generations haven't, but it also means it's kind of our task to shift the way we live and relate to ourselves and to others. And it's a big one. I think we're really lucky to kind of all be in it together, but it is tricky. And I think it's especially tricky when your job requires public presence and public life because you don't, you don't get to take a sick day,

you don't have a day off, you don't get to have a bad day. And I think maybe because so many people are worried that they're the only ones having bad days, that's where that ha ha comes from when people trip. Yeah. And it's the thing I think we need to ditch immediately. Mm-hmm. And before I forget to say this, because I wanted to say this to you three times

in the last four minutes, I'm having an aha moment talking to you like this, even in the ways, by the way, that I perceive you and what you do, I'm going, oh, now I understand why you're so good at striking this balance as a journalist between, covering who these athletes are and their personal stories with their performance on the

court. Like, duh, of course. It's because you are doing the same in your own life. And of course it is. I appreciate you saying that. It really, really means the world to me. There is no compliment that I take more than when a woman I admires who's had to walk through a fire tells me that they see mine, both the fire I've walked through and the fire that's within me like that, there's nothing that means more to me than that. When I was listening to you talk about that kindness

and how it's judgment for yourself, but a kindness towards other people. You know that phrase, treat others the way you want to be treated? Yes. I just, just as you were talking, I said to myself, maybe I need to treat myself the way

that I strive to treat others? Yes. Because my goodness, are we so tough on ourselves? And I do think that what's the balance between perfectionism being something that drives you and something that also is like a little bit debilitating and you need to shake in order to be happy? Yes. Because I, when I moved to Los Angeles, I told myself the story that all I had time for was work. And it requires this singular focus.

And it does. The athletes that I cover are the best in the world. And so I do believe that you need to match their dedication to the sport with how you cover them. That doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes. that doesn't mean that there aren't stories that 22-year-old Malika I would cover differently than 30-year-old Malika. But these breaks that I had in the day,

I would just sit and work and wait for games to come on versus those two or three hours using them to do something I really enjoyed outside of work because I do think everything is a balance, right? And balance, like when I say balance, I don't mean work-life balance because I sort of think we need to get away from that. Everything is sacrificing at all times.

There is no balance, particularly for women. But what I mean is finding a recipe that works for you that allows you to be the best and happiest version of yourself at work. And so for me, those ingredients were my husband, horseback riding, and reading. That combined with work is my recipe for success. I'm not happy if I don't. feel fulfilled in my job and that I feel like I'm doing my best there. But I'm also not happy when my time with my husband continues to suffer or I don't get out to the barn or I haven't

write a book this week. Like there is a darn you lights, but there is a, there's a recipe to all of that. And I think that that's sort of what I'm working to find. Like that's, that's what it is, it's just working to find that. And that's not a weakness. Like, that's the other thing is, like, meeting that, I think is something that, like you said, we're finally, it's finally encouraged and okay. Yeah. But it doesn't mean figuring in and out ain't hard. No, it's very hard. And I mean, for me, you know, growing up, I spent the entire decade of my 20s on a show. And, you know, when you're filming a show and you're at work, 15, 16, sometimes 17 hours a day, you get trained to work yourself in a way that is not sustainable.

And even now, I have to work on getting outside, taking a break, going for a walk, like just stopping, because I will do the same thing. I will sit and I will read and I will work and work and work all day. And that's not really a life. And so finding, you know, to your point, not the balance, but making sure that there's not just one ingredient in the recipe is so important. And I won't tell him about all the praise. We'll hide this episode from him. And now a word from our sponsors.

It's not lost on me the way you talk about your husband and the way you light up when you speak about him. It sounds like you have such a great partner who helps you claim, you know, your joy outside of work, who also happens to be a sports journalist. So I would imagine has a great purview into what work takes for you. How do you guys keep your personal and professional separate? Mm-hmm. Or do you have like a, I need to ask you a work question

right now and then like put your work hat on, put your husband hat on. Like what is, how do you do it? Yeah, we definitely definitely have the, I have a work question. I think that there's a, there's a, Dave is a sports journalist and so I think there's a baseline of understanding that comes with the irregular hours that we both have to work and I think that that's speaking the same language is very, very important, but it also can make it so that if you're not intentional,

you can fall into constantly talking about basketball. Now, basketball is always on in our house because we genuinely enjoy it and we love it. And we try to be very specific about, okay, now we are going to turn this off. Okay, when he is talking on the phone to somebody, that I know that is a work call for him, his sources are separate than mine. Like, those are very, we're very specific about making those separate. But I think whatever the common language that you have with a partner is, that's, I think that's the secret sauce, right? Like, that's the thing that's really, really important.

And, you know, Dave, going back to the writing piece of it, I think that's one thing that I've always best communicated writing things down. And he is a beautiful writer. And every time he goes on a road trip, he'll leave me a note. And I get to read it. And that's reminiscent for me of when I was younger, you know, that was something that my family did for each other. We would leave each other notes. And now to have that whenever he goes on a road trip, because we talk every day And we have all the, you know, everyone is texting all the time now and we talk on the phone and all the stuff. But he does travel for significant portions of the year. I think having separate hobbies, he likes to play pickup, I like to ride horses, and then coming together with something, everything is still new to talk about at the end of the day, even if you watch the same basketball game.

So he's a very, very special person. And he is very kind. He is more friends than anyone I know. And I think that's because so many people see how special he is. He had 12 groomsmen in our wedding. Yeah, we made no cuts. And that was actually, actually, we did make cuts. That was down from 16.

He wanted 16 and we went with 12. So the man has a lot of friends. And I think that's because he just has this light to him. That's really wonderful. But I don't talk about him a lot. because I also want to protect, there's a protection there. And I think that sometimes folks, you can, it's easy to confuse not posting something with not really and truly feeling deeply about something. So, you know, I think that's what it is too with him.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important to keep aspects of your life for you, to keep those things. you know kind of sacred i mean to your point things get so picked apart in general it's like how much do you really want to open for more of that and and again even people who seem super open like some people think i'm really private and some people think i'm really open and i'm like i'm that means you're doing something right i vacillate and i'm like there's so much of my life you know nothing about and i like that way and and you know listen we're women in media and i know this to be true, and I also know you've talked about this a little bit, that being picked apart as a woman in these public spaces is really hard. And particularly for you to be one of the women

in such a historically male-dominated field, how do you kind of protect your peace? Because you protect your peace with your marriage by making sure a lot of your private life is private. How do you protect your piece with the requirement to be online and on camera? Do you have like a, I don't read the comment section rule? Yeah, that is a very important rule. I do not read the comment sections are trash. Common sections are closed because I, you know, it actually, advice that I got from a colleague of mine was you have all of the people around you that can tell you to your face with the intention of helping you to be better, both when you've succeeded and both when you have left something to be desired.

There are stories that I come away from that I think, wow, I really, really feel, and I hope that the subject felt that we did them justice. And I hope that the audience felt entertained or moved or I really think the production staff came together and did a fantastic job there. And then there are other stories that I walk away and I think, you know what, that wasn't the right angle. That detail wasn't necessary. I'm not sure that was fair. And I try to, I always tell players, I make sure that I show up to these games. I show up when, you know, Janice and I had a conversation about this recently where he was talking about on a podcast how he had walked out on me in a press conference and he and I had a conversation. He messaged me and apologized later and he and I had had a conversation about it. And I said, you know, I wanted to ask you a question that press conference just for you to see that I was there and I do want to show up even when things aren't peachy and roses. And we had a really good conversation about that, the two of us.

I know both of those things have happened that both I have done well and both that I need to be better and that the subject deserved better and I have the real-life producers, the real-life people, the real-life friends, the real-life family to say, you crush that

and, girl, that, no, we need to walk on that next time. What I was looking for in the comment section was for my worst fears to be echoed. If I thought I looked bad in a dress that one day, it didn't matter if 20 people told me I look great. The one person who told me I didn't, I was like, I knew it. Thank you. Zero, zero, zero, no profile picture, you know, like that, thank you. That's what I was looking for. And that you don't need. Have a circle that can echo back to you the good and put up the red flag and say you need to be better because that's what I was looking for in those comments.

Yeah. It is really weird how it doesn't matter how much of it's good. It's the one that's bad. It's like the worst kind of confirmation bias a person can have because it's pain and it's cruelty. And it's like sometimes I'm like, what are we doing with the internet? But, you know, it's also part of our job. You mentioned your, you know, your kind of workwives and your circle of women. And who do you lean on for support when you, exactly when you say these things? Like, yes, comment section closed, goodbye, we're done with you. But when you want feedback, when you want encouragement, when you want someone to give you constructive criticism, you know, who do you turn to first?

Yeah, I'm really lucky. And I've said that. I realize how many times I've said that on this podcast. But I really truly believe it. I believe when we're talking about recipes, which that's now what I'm going to say. work life balance is out. A recipe for happiness is in, for my vernacular, because I just don't think that balance can exist. I think that a recipe and happiness can. My coordinating producer of the show is a woman, Hillary Guy, and one of the main analysts on our show, Shanae Guma Kay,

is also a woman. And they are my two angels. I don't have a devil. I get an angel on each shoulder that whenever there is something, I know I can turn to them. And when Gail King and Oprah for Gail's birthday, I think they were doing a podcast, maybe with Melinda Gates, and Oprah had said something to the effect of, a friend, there can't be jealousy. There just have to be this unbridled cheering and support. There can be good-spirited competition.

but jealousy cannot be a factor in a true and meaningful friendship. And, you know, Claire and I, my friend that got into the paper with me, still one of my best friends. We went up for the same editor-in-chief job of the college paper. One of us got it. One of us didn't. And it's continued without any jealousy and just pom-poms out and support system on. Chenet, Hillary, like, I really feel like I have that. Yeah.

And that's not something that's always there. I think that just like any one, there's always different circles of people who provide different things. But I'm really lucky to have that. Because I do think that's true. I think that there has to just be a sturdy, strong, unbridled backing. And that's my circle of women. I love that. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

Do you still, or can you? Or is it maybe like a work hat and a home hat thing? Can you watch basketball just for fun? No. I mean, that's not true. I can watch non-NBA basketball just for fun. However, when I'm sitting in the stands and, you know, a big play happens and I'm there just, I'm not working, I'm sitting in the stands, I feel like I've forgotten how to clap because you can't clap on press row. And I feel like when I clap, I like move my hands.

Like I don't because I don't clap. I don't clap at sporting events. When you're on press row, you're on press pro. You have to be very professional. And now when I clap, I feel like I'm massing my hands together in a way that I don't even, why can't I figure out how to clap like a nor. I overthink clapping whenever I'm sitting in a game because I can't, I'm so not used to. That is so ridiculous. But when I go to like a musical or something, I'm totally fine clapping.

But a sporting event, I'm like, these claws don't mesh together. Well, because I bet with every clap you feel like you're breaking the rules. I'm like, what am I doing here? But it's, yeah, watching the NBA specifically, I will never lose the like childlike joy of seeing, literal superheroes because most human beings cannot do physically what these folks do

what these men and women do. But yeah, it's a little hard to fully remove especially because people say well who are you a fan of it's like well I'm a fan of the people now because I know them you root for good people

and the NBA is just like chalkful of good guys WMBA is chock full of fantastic women and so you like you root for good people to succeed and so it's always a little bit you know there's always a winner and a loser but it's like dang i like this this player oh man i love that player didn't want to see him so you know that's uh but i'll work on my my handbrushing god the wmba

finals last year oh my gosh they're just a nail battle we get seven we get seven we get seven games of this beautiful delightful torturlessly close games and it's going to be it's going to be incredible My little sister covers women's basketball, too. So it's sort of fun to get to visit homework. I'm a diehard Liberty fan. And, God, that was quite a nail biter for us. Yeah, I was ironically, you mentioned road trips. I was on a drive literally the night of the last game.

I planned this trip months before. There was like no way I could change the timing. And we had to use my hot spot and like get online to walk. And, you know, and it was just so. so stressful, but so exciting. And there was a moment where, you know, out in the middle of nowhere in the desert. I was like, this is commitment. Like, we've got this game on, like, pulled over on a highway. Because there is no missing it. And it was, it was very funny to me. It was, it was a fun time. I love that. That's the best kind of, there's so few things in the world, though, to walk into an

arena, to look around, to see grownups, screaming their heads off, jumping up, and down nowhere else and no other sector of life do you get that than in sports and so that's kind of what's so cool is it just brings this joy for people um that's what sports is in its best that's what i love about it there is nothing like a playoff game there is nothing like a finals game um there's nothing like a game seven where it's all on the line down to one thing or a game five um there's nothing like it there's nothing like it it's the coolest thing in the world and um you know to be able to, not to sound cheesy, but like every time, I remember one time, I walked on to set. I, I've grown up on ESPN, right? I came to ESPN. I was 21, maybe barely 22. And I started as a

writer. I worked my way up as a writer. I covered the coronavirus. I eventually was given MBA today and I remember walking into the studio one day because I forgot my laptop charger because I forget my laptop charger every day and all the lights were out and it's this huge studio and you know television sets the steel is this massive pieces of awesome equipment and we're the only show that comes out of our studio studio H in Los Angeles and I remember walking in it's quiet and the desk looks really little at the center of this enormous studio and thinking, oh my goodness, every single, every piece of equipment, this desk, this chair, all of this is for me.

It's for us, it's for the show that we create and the producers and everyone, but little me, that that girl that didn't feel like she belonged or wasn't sure where things were going or if she was good enough to have in that moment of quiet, like, oh, wow, this is, for me, which is such a responsibility and also so much fun, was just a very, very cool thing to be reminded of. I think sometimes we just remind ourselves of that. When you walk into a place and you say, oh, yeah, this is for me and because of the work I did to set it up and set myself up. Yeah. You get to remind yourself that you've arrived in a place that used to be a dream. You know, when you hear the, you know, remember when you dreamed about,

what you have now. I think that's very, very true. And I try to ground myself in that constantly because it's so easy to look toward the next or tomorrow or the whatabouts. But I think if you can just sit in that for a little bit, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. It leads me to get to talk to you. It's amazing. From this place, from sitting in that place where you get to really let it land and feel that kind of joy. What feels like your work in progress this year? What's ahead? Oh, that's a good question. I'm really content with continuing to sort of get better at what I'm doing. I really am excited about hosting the MBA findings. which is something that just, like, I get a little bit giggly even just saying that.

I'm really, really excited for hosting the NBA finals and the draft back to back. That just feels like it goes from the pinnacle of sport to literally getting to capture people's childhood dreams coming true and achieving generational wealth and upward mobility for a lot of families that otherwise wouldn't be able to. Yeah. Like that, that to me is like the coolest month of my year. And I really am looking forward to getting to do that. Last year was the first year that I was sitting in that seat.

And so I'm really looking forward to doing what I hope is an even better job this year. That's something I really look forward to. Oh, that's so exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. And thank you for today. It's, it's really just been such an absolute pleasure. I've loved learning even more about your story than what I got to read about ahead of our interview. Well, thank you. I appreciate you making the time and the space and I would

I would do the little hold the finger thing if I, yeah. I love it. Yeah. Well, we'll have to go like get a bite to. eat and hang with your sister or something soon it would be so fun yes i would love to i would love to i would love to and um if you're if your friend in detroit is ever up this way and needs horses ride oh my god i have got horses to visit we will take you up on it oh charlie is my horse okay yeah so he's um i thought my husband Dave thought it would be funny to name a horse charlie horse like a class tracks yeah so we went like this, Harley. Great. He's got dad jokes. We love it. Anytime. He's that, but

but yeah, it's awesome. Thank you so much for the time. Thank you. Have an amazing rest of your day. Have a beautiful rest of your day. Bye. Podcasts.