Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Melanie Lynskey

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Melanie Lynskey has viewers glued to their TVs with her on-screen work in Showtime's Emmy-nominated hit series, “Yellowjackets,” but she once thought the show would never get off the ground! The award-winning actress joins Sophia to discuss her ever-evolving career in Hollywood, women’s experiences in the industry, and why she thought nothing would come of “Yellowjackets!” She also opens up about overcoming her eating disorder, loving motherhood, why she goes to a psychic, and the deliciousness of being on a hit show in her 40s! Plus, Melanie revisits her time working with Kate Winslet on “Heavenly Creatures” 30 years ago, being obsessed with her hubby’s (Jason Ritter) show “Matlock,” and she and Sophia trade stories about meeting and fangirling over Megan Thee Stallion!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, friends. We have a guest you have all been waiting for, asking for, excited for. Today, we're joined by the iconic Melanie. Linsky on the podcast. Melanie has become an industry staple. She has amassed a plethora of gorgeous thought-provoking roles across film and television over the course of 30 years. And we are all

obsessed with her latest role starring opposite Christina Richie in the 10-time Emmy-nominated Showtime series Yellow Jackets. Soon, Melanie is leading a film called Pike River opposite Robin Malcolm, did by Robert Sarkis, which touches on the profound impact of a disaster in New Zealand. We recently got to fangirl her on HBO's critically acclaimed The Last of Us. And today, we're going to dig into what inspires her and motivates her as an artist, a parent, a spouse, and the coolest girl any of us knows. Let's dig in with Melanie Linsky. Well, hi.

I'm so glad you're here. I'm so, thank you for having me. It means so much to me. It means so much to me. I feel like life is so crazy. And since the pandemic, no one hangs out, which is okay because everyone, it's crazy. But I'm like, sometimes I just have to figure out a way to bamboozle people to come sit here. Just so I can squeeze you until you've missed you.

I know. know, I feel the same. Easton, this is obviously a side note, but like this woman, I've known for so long, you're one of those people I have that deep feeling with where I'm like, we never are in the same place, so we don't really hang out. But I am convinced, and I don't mean this in the way that fans say it to me, and I'm sure they say it to you, I mean it in a real way, where I'm like, she's kind of my best friend, only I don't know it.

Yeah, I feel the same with you. I feel like if we hung out all the time, you would know my, you would just be one of the first people I'd call. I don't see you a lot, but you make me feel safe that way, like the way my closest friends make me feel. That's the loveliest thing you could possibly say. And I feel so the same. And it's funny, and I felt it from the moment I met you.

I was just like, oh, yeah. I was like, oh, hi. Yeah. Where were we? You had that cute little house in like Eagle Rock or, or an echo park. It was an echo park for so long. Oh, it's cute. Because we met when you worked with Jimmy.

with my ex-husband. Yes. Yeah. You say that so gently and kindly. I love that. I don't have the same feeling about mine, so well done you. No, it's good. I'm glad.

My daughter's, like, fascinated with him. Wait, really? Yeah. I accidentally said ex-husband in front of her one day, and she was like, oh, mommy. And she was like, did you kiss him? Oh, my God. And I said, yeah, I sure did.

A bunch of times. Yeah. I know. I was like, and I kissed other people, too. it's good for her to know. I don't want her to have the like Prince fantasy or Princess fantasy, you know, like where she's like

there's one true love like I can't stand it. Womp, womp, yeah. Oh, how old is she now? Six. Wow. Yeah, so you're really in it. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really funny. My partner has kids. Oh, yeah. They're four and about to be three. and I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was something about, you know, blended family for us and her little best friend at school has two moms and one of the other kids at school has two dads.

And so everyone's, you know, there's all these different families and to kids it's so obvious. But someone said something in front of her about, oh, it was us, we were going to a wedding. And she was like, but what's a wedding? And we were like, oh, how do you, how do you explain to a four-year-old what a wedding is? Yeah. And we said, you know, you know how people have mommies and daddies.

Yeah. And usually, you know, if you don't have two houses with, you know, two mommies and bonus parents and GGs and Mimis and, you know, big extended families, some people just have two people they live with in a house. And sometimes the mommy and daddy or the mommies or the daddies are married. Yeah. You know, it's, um, and I'm like, how do you say it's a ceremony that it gives you a tax break? Like, I don't know how to explain any of this to a child. And so we showed her some pictures from weddings. And when we got home, we showed her pictures of our friends who got married and they're like very cool elder lesbians in their 60s. Yeah. This very cute wedding. And the immediate feedback was, wow, Auntie Cindy looks so pretty. And Auntie Michelle looks so pretty. And wow, look at those,

look at the big trees because we were in Palm Springs she'd very end of the palm trees and then she turns and goes this looks fun and we said yeah weddings are fun and she goes okay I'm gonna marry Ruby who's her best friend at school

and we were like so cute yes sure absolutely whatever you want oh my god I overheard my daughter the other day a babysitter who hasn't been with us for a while was there

and Kahi my daughter was like I have a crush on Levi and I'm gonna marry Levi and her babysitter was like oh I thought you had a crush on Ioni, who was her best friend, and she goes, well, she's my ex-girlfriend, but we're still friends. I heard Sophie just start laughing so much. Oh, like, it's so fun, the stuff they say.

Oh, my God, she's my ex-girlfriend. It's wild. You're like, where did you learn that? I don't know. Well, maybe now she has context for phase two. Yeah, exactly. I love it. That's cute.

But yeah, it's so simple to kids. Kids are not like, wait, why are two women marrying each other? They're just like, oh, yeah. They're like, cool. Yeah, these people are in love, those people are in love. Well, we are really, we're jumping into kids in real present. But interestingly enough, the place I love to start with people is connected. Because so many people know you, especially you, from the iconic nature of your filmography,

all the movies you've given us and the shows you've. given us. The treats you've given us as viewers, and I always think this question is more interesting for people with young kids, because I think about how an audience really meets you in your work, and I wonder about who people were before they were known. And if you got to kind of put a little wrinkle in time and walk into the park and see yourself at your daughter's age, would you see yourself in her like would you as an adult go oh there i am yeah uh and do you think you see that part of yourself in your kid i don't know that i do i mean i i see some of myself and my child and i just got emotional about it last night so i'm probably going to get emotional

again because i just she's a very deeply feeling child and her her need to express herself and say how she's feeling is so great and she can't sit around with an emotion. It drives her crazy and I was the same. Like I felt things very deeply, but I didn't necessarily have like a safe place to get them out. Like I'm the oldest of five. My household was very busy a lot of the time.

And I don't know. It was just my husband and I were both with our daughter and like holding. her and listening to something that she was like outraged about and I was like gosh this would have felt nice to have two parents who are just on your level just like tell me about it tell me how that felt I understand that you're angry I'm so sorry you know I was like God that would have been amazing and I think I love the confidence that she has because of it I love the way she feels totally fine to talk about her feelings and she understands who she is and it just yeah so the little version of myself that never really felt like it was okay to do that I think also though

that's why I fell in love with acting when I was so young I was like oh you're allowed you can get on the stage and be whoever you want to be you're allowed to be loud you're allowed to be loud you're allowed to feel different things. I really did understand the aspect of taking something from your own life and channeling it into your work, even when I was quite young, the catharsis of it, you know? And I got kind of addicted to it. And so I don't know if I would have necessarily found it

to be such an outlet for myself if I had been allowed to express whatever. Right. Maybe if you hadn't been in that elderly, this daughter role, you wouldn't have found your art. Yeah. But that's so interesting that you know from not having had it, how to give it to your kid. Yeah. Yeah.

And I probably go a little overboard. But also, is there any such thing as going overboard when it's like listening to your child? I don't. I don't think so. Yeah. Because here's the thing that I think, and it's not like there's some. solution right or or some equation you know we're not talking about math but you know you mentioned she's six you're not um you're not over indulging a 20 year old yeah though i hope when your kid is 20

you love listening to her feelings you know and i hope she wants to talk to me about them of course but it's like what i think about especially when they're little is the the more you can give them and the more kindness you can show them and the more you can permit their feelings, the more you'll be able to help them refine those feelings and they're, I feel like we're the generation where all our therapists talk to us about having a toolkit, because clearly our parents didn't have any. And it's like, she will be more adept at using her tools sooner because you've given her the space to identify the feelings first and then eventually to start learning

what the tools are. I hope so, yeah. Like I remember she was like 18 months old or something and she fell down and she started really crying and there was a family member there who was like, you're okay, you're okay. And it was very hard for me to speak up

but I was like, we actually don't know if she's okay. Like that's not our body. I never like want to tell her she's okay. I want her to figure out when she's okay and you know for a while she would really react every time she got hurt even a little bit it was a bit like you are actually okay

but I also was like I'm going to let her figure it out and she's now much more resilient like she'll fall down and she'll be like I'm okay but I don't want to tell someone that they're okay like it's such an odd instinct for me and something that we just grew up with and being like you're

fine, you're fine. And then it's like you start to lose track of your internal compass that is telling you whether you're fine or not. I just wanted her to be able to decide. I think that's really beautiful. I think, and listen, I can't pretend to know what it was for our parents, but it really does seem like our generation of women was very much raised to have everything be okay as long as everything was people pleasing and polite and over. achieving and you got good grades and you made sure you looked nice and you made sure you took care of everybody else. Yeah, very much. And to unlearn that, to learn that you're allowed to be loud, to learn that you're allowed to express feelings, to learn that you're allowed to be angry,

that it's human. Oh, God, it's such a journey. Did art help you get there? Do you think? Maybe before you even knew? Yeah, I guess so, but I always had trust. trouble. It was always the hardest thing for me to access. And I think just because it's so ingrained in us as women, like to not be angry. And I never felt like it was justified. I never felt like the circumstances had warranted it. You learn to push things down. You're like, well, how did I play a part in this, you know, also like codependent and all that stuff? But I went to a place and did like five days straight of therapy after I broke up with Jimmy because I was going a little crazy and so I did a very intensive five days

and one of the things I had to do was just be angry. I had there were like all these plastic like foam blocks and I had to hit them with a baseball bat and initially I think I was just like oh you know like just that seems fine. mine. And my therapist was like encouraging me to go a little further. And by the end of it, she and I were both just weeping. Like she was standing there weeping with me because there were so many years that were built up of things I never felt like it was okay to be angry about. And I realized like, oh, I'm scared that I'll start feeling angry and then I'll just be bitter and angry forever. I didn't understand

letting it out and moving through it and being a more healed and healthy person. Yeah. And so that was the beginning of it. Wow. Yeah, it was great. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors.

I went through something similar. Leaving a job and knowing that I had to, but also being confused because we don't do that in our industry, right? And we certainly don't do that to protect ourselves who, how dare you, ma'am, you know?

And I went to a similar place. I did a five-day intensive and really had to start to figure out how to process. And weirdly, the thing that helped me begin to understand that I deserve to be angry was when I finally started to share with some of my closest people

and they were so taken aback and then so outraged and I was like oh I mean I felt like a baby because I was having something mirrored and learning that that's how humans feel and going oh I'm allowed to feel this and then it took me years to work through some of that

as you said because there was a period where I was like am I just going to be enraged forever but the weird thing is I had to learn that actually falling in love with my anger, like learning to cultivate it and listen to it in the way you talk about listening to your daughter. I had to listen to it. And when I loved it, it was like years of armor fell off of me. I felt the softest and most patient, but also solidly boundaryed I'd ever felt in my life. And I was like, Is this a thing people do?

It's, wow, yeah, that's so beautiful. Do we just get to do this? But I know, isn't it funny sometimes how it really does take someone else looking at you and being like, that is not okay for you to go, oh. Like, I, for about 10 years, I had a very, very restrictive eating disorder. And I was so unkind to myself and I would eat like a certain number. of calories a day and if I went anything over I would grow up I was never like a bingy person or anything like that it just was like very restrictive and I had a boyfriend when I was 21 and we were

living together and kind of was like something's going on and when I talked to him I shared it with people before and people had been like oh I hate my body too I have an eating disorder you know and I shared it with him and I remember him just looking at me and saying that's so violent and I never thought I was like oh he said I can't believe you've been doing that to yourself and then he just cried and he was like I'm so sorry you're so perfect you're so beautiful and it was this compassionate it shook me I just was really like it changed something like just to see somebody like witness it and just say like that's that's not okay and that was the beginning of like my recovery which was pretty yeah i'm very very grateful um yeah you sometimes do need somebody to yeah someone mirroring

you so honestly and authentically and from a place of kindness yeah not to minimize excuse you know It struck me earlier when you were saying, like, oh, yeah, all these sort of concessions that women get taught to make, and you don't even realize how many you are making. Yeah. I think something that happens to us a lot, too, to divest us from our anger is, well, it could have been worse. Yes. Oh. Yeah, that guy was a creep, but he didn't fill in the blank. Yeah, this was terrible, but you didn't fill in the blank.

There's always a couching of, well, it was unfortunate, but not awful. And, like, sometimes awful things are just awful. Yeah. And in a way, this man who just had never been taught to minimize his feelings, I'd bet, didn't minimize yours and so you could stop. Yeah. It wasn't like, oh, well, you're trying to be an actress and all actresses are on a diet or whatever gross, disgusting thing they love to tell us when we were young. You know, the industry was so toxic and so icky. Oh, my God.

and I bet there are so many women who were given, well, you're just, you're just strict with yourself. Oh, you're just very disciplined. It's like, no, I'm being violent with myself, actually. Yeah. That's a big shift. Yeah. When did that develop for you, if you don't mind me asking about it?

I never want to. You know, like around early puberty. Okay. Like I already was very, I was like a very regular child. I don't think my mother would mind me saying she has had issues with her eating and I think you know you see particular things being modeled and people not eating there was a lot of like weird food talk in our house and you know I already felt so self-conscious and so aware of what my body looked like and not being like a stick thin little child just a normal

regular child and then my body started changing and I like freaked out. I just was like how can this happen? I already was trying to make peace with what it was and I also felt very vulnerable and then I was reading some like teenage girls magazine like bulimia and I was like oh this is a great idea. Oh god. I just seemed like such a quick fix. Quick fix yeah and then I um yeah it mostly was just very very restrictive which i was raised for you know and yeah the very long yeah 10 years of just thinking also thinking about food so much yeah thinking about my body so much looking at myself in the mirror like as parts parts of a body like this part that part what's wrong with this what's wrong with that and not taking myself in as a human being which also like

breaks my heart like i not do this thing but there are some mornings i look at my daughter and i just think oh my god she's so gorgeous and i always say to her i think that you got more beautiful in the night and she like runs over to the mirror and she's like i think i did like looks at herself she's like oh, I think I did get more beautiful, and I'm like, I think so. And then I have Jason, so I'm like, do you think she got? And he's like, oh, yeah, I think. Like, I just want her to know, like. That she's amazing.

You're so beautiful. You're so perfect. And she's never looked at herself with anything other than, like, love. And she's only six. You know, the world is coming for her. But I just remember just whittling myself down and being so aware of all the things that were wrong. and it was such an exhausting way to live and boring. And it was interesting because I was a little feminist.

Like I read so many, I read everything. I had read so much feminist literature, and I was very aware of, like, the issues with body image and society and, you know, women's rights, and we were living in the era of, like, third-wave feminism. I felt very excited about, possibilities and I still felt the need to make myself smaller. Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes I wonder though about that, how much you can know and believe about the world and what the world deserves and what your friends deserve and what women deserve. And somehow it won't settle for you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, it took me a long. time and really wondering how I had a moment where I woke up and went,

how is this my life to go, how have I paid so much attention to everyone else's well-being and community well-being and the well-being of a set and of friends and family and coworkers and all of which I love. I don't want to give that up, but why haven't I paid attention to mine? How have I erased myself in my own spaces? And I, I don't think we're taught to pour into ourselves. And it really feels, and I don't know maybe our parents felt this way, but it really feels like our generation of women

wants to shift that for our kids. Yes. Like we really want this to be, you know, a tipping point. Yeah. And maybe it's part of why there's this crazy backlash against us because they're like, oh God, they've had a generation of access and they really want to use it.

I'm like, yeah, yep, we do. Absolutely the reason. And then you see, you know, in society, suddenly, like, being extremely thin is, like, becoming really fashionable again. And, like. Well, making yourself small. Yeah. And it's like, oh, that's interesting. Well, it's interesting to me, too, when I think about this, because I think about my favorite women to watch and preparing for today.

I was like, oh, my God, how could I've forgotten? The two of my favorite women to watch. made one of their first movies together. You know, we were, you were, yes, 15. Oh, yes, heavenly creatures. Crazy. And I think about especially these projects that you and Kate Winslet have been doing, these conversations you've had about women's experiences in this industry,

the incredible bodies of work you both have, and how somehow we're in a moment where the whole industry is like, these women are having their moments Melanie Linsky's getting her due Kate Winslet has a show that finally deserves her like you guys have you've sprinkled magic dust on all of us and it's not lost on me that

you did that project together when you were in the midst of trying to figure this all out for yourself that both of us you know I don't know her personally but she shared many of these things it even feels like oh these incredible women are

helming the most successful projects in entertainment and really taking up their space. And then, you know, the sort of backlash to our autonomy and liking ourselves seems to be so strong. And I'm just like, no. This is my side of the seesaw. Yeah, me too. I, it's crazy to me. I'm just like, oh no, we can't let go of it. We just can't. No. I do have to say, like, when I worked with Kate, and I was 15 and she was 17, I was so in awe of her. I just adored her.

We had very, like, big sister, little sister vibes. Like, I worshipped her, and we were very, very close, like, best, best, best friends. And to watch her work and to just see, like, she was the most beautiful. beautiful woman. I didn't know people could be that beautiful in real life. Like I just was like, this is crazy. She just looked. She was so gorgeous. And then, you know, she went out in the world and she started working. And it just felt like the natural order of things. Because I was like, I've met like a genuine movie star. And then she started to become a movie star. I was like, that makes sense. That's what should happen. And then to see, I guess it was mostly after Titanic,

this crazy backlash that she had to endure and the way people talked about her body I felt like I was living in an alternate reality I was like no but that

like it was so bizarre and people commenting on her body and I was like that's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen but don't talk about anybody like that but it just I just, it felt like backwards world and the fact that she had to endure that and she did it with so much grace and so much care for other women at a time when it was not spoken about. People were not sitting around talking about body image because nobody had different bodies and she didn't even have a different body.

She was tiny. That's a good thing. But she was forced into this position and she stepped into it so gracefully. I remember at the time being, like, so furious on her behalf that she had to do that, but also just an awe of the fact that she was able to, and she wanted to uplift other women, and I knew it was a struggle for her. I knew how she felt about her body was a struggle. And I don't know.

I wonder if she, like, came to accept herself more because she was put in a position of lifting up other women and making other women feel seen. but just like how difficult that was for her and how unfair and at a moment where she was just like stunning the world with her talent and of course someone has to like take you down

when you're like literally on top of the world and in the biggest movie of all times someone has to be like Ben this thing an invented thing that's not even wrong with her and I don't know I just have a lot of compassion for what she had to go through and she's still doing that

She's still like such an incredible spokesperson for women. It's really, like for all these years, it's pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's such an odd thing to be, because it does feel like they want to put you on the pedestal just so they can enjoy knocking you off. Oh, yeah. Was the moment of making that film because you all were so young

and hadn't quite exploded out into the world of the industry yet? Did you know it would change things, or did it feel a bit like summer camp? It was my first job. Wow. So I just, I couldn't believe I was on a movie set. And Kate was like very professional and she had been working for a long time. It was her first movie, but she'd done a lot of television. And so she was really telling me how things worked.

And I remember her saying, like, what are you going to spend your money on? It wasn't very much money when I look back. But like, I was like, I'm. spent this money and I realized like she was thinking she was going to get another job she was going to I was like this is it for me like I'm going to keep this money in a bank account to last me for the rest of my life um which is so funny um but she was you know thinking about like jobs in the future and I was just I couldn't believe I was there I felt like I'd won a fan competition or something yeah we'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our

favorite sponsors. Well, so what happened next? Because, you know, your filmography is over a hundred titles long. Is it? Yes. Oh, that doesn't seem right. I was like, my goodness gracious, it's a factoid that I read and went, okay. It's crazy.

And you have been part of such iconic things through your career. and I've also heard you talk about how you know it's it's been gorgeous and it never quite did the the globally explosive thing like this until yellow jackets but you're like one of the most prolific successful actors ever how does that is it just hard to have it sort of resonate the things you're doing or is it that actor's stress of every job, you're wondering if you're ever going to get another job. Yeah, it's that thing. Okay. And I never had the goal of being famous. It's, I'm very shy. I'm, I don't like it.

I'm very grateful now. I don't get recognized very much. And when I do, somebody's very specific and they know exactly, it's either they know exactly where they know me from and they have something very specific to say. Or it's someone who's like, did you go to such and such college? And I'm like, I did it. and they're like thrown off by the accent. So I can kind of still move around and just be normal in the world.

I was always so afraid of not being able to do that, you know. And I never sort of being like a true famous person. It feels like a prison. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. So this has come sort of like as close as I would ever want to get. And it's very strange.

But also manageable. But it's also so cool as a fan of yours and then as such a fan of the show to watch what you ladies have built and to watch the hunger for it, the reception of it, the excitement around it for women who, you know, when we were in our 20s, they were telling us by the time we were 40, we'd all never work again. I know. And you're like, sorry, I'm just owning the hottest show on TV at 44. You're welcome. Is it sort of delicious? It's incredibly delicious. It's so great.

I love it. I love it too. And I just think there's so much opportunity. Like a very dear friend of mine in New Zealand created a show. She just turned 60. She created a show that she's the star of. It just got nominated for a BAFTA for Best International Show. It's called After the Patti.

Your name's Robin Malcolm. Oh, yeah. Whenever it comes out here, it's so, so, so good. And she's, like, sexy and great and funny, and she made it happen for herself. And it was everywhere it's aired. It's been huge. It's been so popular.

Wow. Because, like, there's a hunger for it. People want to see stories about women who are not, like, 25 years old. No disrespect to 25-year-olds. But, you know, it's, people want to see stories about women who are, like themselves. Yes. And I want to see stories that aren't just about high school. Yeah. And I understand the irony of saying that as a girl who got famous on a show about high school. Yeah. But it can't just be that. And when I look at our, you know, small to overlapping large groups of friends, we are all so much

hotter, better looking, funnier, and more interesting than we were 20 years ago. And I think 20 years ago we were pretty cute. I think so too. But we're better now. Yeah. And I want this I want our world reflected well, and I want the girls that are playing the high school girls now to know, like, we're here, we got you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I want that so much. What is it like doing that sort of dance with yourselves and your younger selves on the show?

You know, because obviously you're shooting in, I would imagine, different locations. Yeah, different times. Do you get to spend much time with the ultimate? or ego high school kids or not really? We try to. We try to see each other whenever we can. Sophie and I are really close. And my closest friend on the show was Saman who played Lottie and hers is Courtney who plays Lottie.

So the four of us would get together a bit, which was really cute and fun. Oh, that's so sweet. And a thing that I found because I was very concerned with like being an advocate for everybody and I reached out and I was like, if you need anything, I'll be your spokesperson, whatever you need. And they're all kind of like, oh, thanks. They were like, that's so sweet. But they did not need me at all. There's an agency that they have that is just inherent and a way of standing up for themselves that I love.

I love it. Yeah, nobody's like, is it okay if I say this? They're just like, well, I'm going to say something. and I just, I'm like, okay, you really don't need me. Do you feel like you learn from them too? Yeah, oh yeah, very much. And I always wonder about this when you're on a show that has just changed the zeitgeist in the way that Yellow Jackets has.

Did you know, like when you read the script, did you think, oh, this is one of the best things I've read in years? Or was it the sort of arc of season one? like did you have a clue before it came on and you saw the reception or were you sort of taken with it the way the audience was I thought it was really good yeah I thought the pilot was so well written I also had an infant and I was interested in being in half of a show yeah I was so tired I was like that sounds great that sounds great by the way I agree yeah I'm like how do we do more of what you're doing.

Oh, please. They're like, and half of the show will be this other timeline. I was like, I'm listening. Oh. But I just thought the pilot was so good. I have no idea how many people

they offered it to before it came to me. No. But I'm very, but no, I know that there were. Really? Yeah. But I'm very grateful. Thank you to all those people who passed. I just was, I'm, I just loved it.

I loved it so much. And I was just like, yeah, this feels right. And then we made the pilot. Everything felt great, and we just heard nothing. Not like, good job, it looks great. What? Nothing. We heard absolutely nothing.

And then it was the pandemic, and I was just like, well, I guess nothing's happening with that then, it seems like. Just like nothing at all. And then I was on a call with my psychic, and all I wanted to talk about was whether I was going to have another baby. and she started to tell me that there was something going to happen in my career because it didn't happen when I was 25 I thought well that's never going to happen she said that's coming

and you've already done a bit of it and I was like I did a pile of but I don't think it's going it's like oh no that's it's going okay well I want this woman's phone number I'll give you her phone number she's amazing I'm giving her phone number to so many people and now she's impossible to get an appointment No. She makes time for me.

But yeah. So I had that kind of a heads-up. Wow. Because she's never wrong. But it didn't make any sense to me. I was just like, I don't think so. I'm 44 years old. We've heard not a word about this pilot.

It's been nine months, I think, at that point. Like, nothing. It's so crazy. Yeah. And then what, you got the call and they said you need to move to Vancouver in 60s? Three months later. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

In one month, please, like, pack up your child. Yeah, exactly. And your baby. Yeah, in the middle of a pandemic. Yeah. Oh, my God. Wait. I have all these questions about your coworkers and female rage and all these thoughts.

And I'm like, hold on, when did you start seeing a psychic? Tell me everything. Oh, my therapist, I had a therapist who was, no, you should talk to. No. Yeah. I love this. I know. And she's been very, she's very healing.

Okay, because a lot of people get very judgy about these things. And then there's also a part of me that thinks, look, there's so much we know, there's so much we know we don't know about science and the universe. And we know we're this teeny tiny galaxy and this giant, you know, McFlurry of galaxies essentially. Like there's so much out there that we can't possibly understand. When I think about the things we know that our grandparents didn't know, that doctors didn't know.

Oh, yeah. I get excited about possibilities and, energy and and I think there are people who are tapped into shit that a lot of us aren't yeah but how do you i mean i'm sure there's a little bit of a feeling of well why not if my therapist says it to me but how did you make the leap to say oh fuck it i'm just going to book an appointment with a psychic and see what happens i just was too curious she was a very unconventional therapist she passed away a few years ago. Oh, I'm sorry.

But she did a lot of weird. I was in group therapy with her. That was always a fun time. Was she your five-day person? She'd sent me. The first time she met me, she sent me to the five-day place. Oh, I like her. It's my kind of broad.

It's not super professional. But I don't feel like you'd say lady. Like, she feels like a broad. She's a broad. She was a broad. Yeah, I like a broad. She really was. She really was.

But yeah, the first time she met me, she was like, you know where you have to go. And she, like, called them. And I was like, we've been. talking for 20 minutes. Are you sure? But I trusted her. Is it time? Yeah. Wow. It was very strange. And then how do you, I'm so curious about this.

How do you kind of mitigate the maybe, maybe not that comes from a psychic? Like people will say, it can be fun. Take it with a grain of salt. But then I'm obsessed with things. So how do you let it be additive and not make you paranoid? I think because I talked, she's very good at talking about energies, how to deal with particular people, the types of energy that's going to be coming towards you. Like if there's somebody you're having difficulties with, she can tell you, like there was one coworker I was kind of like intimidated by years ago.

And she was like, just sit there and say nothing. And I was like, that's so rude. And she was like, it's not. Like, he needs a little space. I just couldn't figure out. I was like, I want to be friends with him, but I'm sort of nervous. Like, and she said, just say absolutely nothing. Yeah.

But I did. I just like sat in the cast chair. And then one day he goes, you know what I love? You don't come in here going, blah, blah, blah, blah, feeling like you need to talk. It just really, like, feels really calm. And I feel like you're just waiting. for the time to be right and then we like we're still very dear friends wow like she just knows i don't know yeah she just knows things about how people operate so a lot of it when i

talk to her as that is just you know energy or she can read the energy around like a project that might come up and yeah how fun she's very she's very fun and now for our sponsors So that's something I'm curious about because energy is important on a project. I try to explain to people that being cast on a show is essentially like having an arranged marriage with 15 to 25 people. Oh my God, yeah. Because you have to be immediate family. You have to have to have great chemistry. You have to somehow know how to communicate with everyone, even though everyone communicates differently.

And they're total strangers. Yeah. And they're going to ship you off somewhere and you're going to live together. Yeah. It's so true. you had to marry everyone on Big Brother. Yeah. It's confusing.

Yeah. And I'm really curious because you do. You've got these parallel storylines on the show. And it's this big group of women. And I do think we're in different time where we get to be additive to each other instead of encouraged to behave like, oh, there's only room for one of you. So compete, ladies. Yeah.

How do you, how does it feel energetically with this big, group of women and then this sort of younger group of women that you guys want to look out for yeah but who are teaching you things too do you did you have to sort of sit down and go okay guys I know we all come from the early aught's absolute nightmare of Hollywood but we're going to be cool and be friends or were you all just ready I think we were all ready we were all very very grateful for the job which is a nice thing and it was also during COVID, we couldn't really hang out very much. Yeah, wow.

So we would, do you know, Marco Polo? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'd leave each other, these Marco Polos. We were just talking. Like, and it would be at different times, like mine would be when my daughter had finally gone to sleep, and it would be spring sitting next to her in bed. Julietts were, like, roaming around the streets

and the cameras, like over here somewhere, she's like, yeah, so anyway, you know, and they were all, Christina's were always driving. She was like, I'm fine. I put the camera somewhere. Yeah. They were all, like, such, like, a microcosm of our personalities, but we just witnessed each other, like, how each other's days were.

And then we just started talking about our families, our past, like, who sexually harassed us. You know, just everything came out. And it was so bonding. And so then by the time we were at work together, We're like sisters. And also I'm grateful that we all wanted to do that and trusted each other enough. And then, you know, I know people have had arguments

and it's never going to be easy when there's a group of people who are so close-knit. But the younger cast is like that too. They're so close. Yeah. Like at Samantha, who plays young Misty, she had a baby shower during production last season. And everybody was there.

was like really a special time to see how well we all knew each other. It was really special. What a cool, what a cool moment. I know. I don't know if you're allowed to tell us, but I, you know, the data. We have all the numbers, including, you know, your filmography. Season three was the most watched season. Are we going to get a more?

I don't know. I hope so. I want to know. I know. We're all a bit panicky. I can't. I mean, well. we gotta call the psychic

yeah I'm scared to ask her I haven't talked to her for a few months oh my gosh oh my gosh when you this is gonna seem like a weird tangent but my brain made the connection which was well it's kind of the inner knowing

right and then I was like oh I wonder if that's how you felt when you met Jason and I was like I realized I was just gonna ask you did you feel like you just knew when you met Jason and you're like ma'am what is this segue but it made sense in here I understand. I understand the connection, you know?

Yeah. Did it feel very different to you, you know, when you guys met each other? Or was it, because I know you did movie after movie together. Did it take a while for you to go, oh my God, wait, is it this guy that I know? Well, we, on the first movie was when we, like, got together. But we were both in very chaotic. We both had, like, just gone through breakups, like, just. and it was, I don't know, everybody seemed kind of like background noise to me.

I just couldn't focus on anyone or anything and it felt so chaotic and my husband moved out of the house. Like it was just. Well, yeah, because you were going through a divorce. Yeah, and it was so, and it was even before like the divorce, Jimmy and I took a long time to sign divorce papers because it was just so depressing. Every time we hung out, we were like, let's do it next time. It just felt it was a very easy process, but I'm just assigning.

No, I get it. I also think that's, listen, that's adulthood. Nobody decides to get a divorce until they've been on a torture train for a pretty long time. Yeah. And when you say it's time and someone moves out or you both move or whatever, that's a long time coming. and I don't know well and maybe it felt different for you too I'm like maybe I'm projecting

my experience and also the experience of a bunch of my friends who weirdly went through it when I did oh that's interesting it was a really weird summer speaking of I watched a video by a psychic who said 2023 was the year of the great divorce like 1929 was the year of the great depression

23 was the year of the great divorce and if you actually look at the records I'm like I am a basic bitch that I got divorced in 2020 race out and everybody else. I think we survived it. Well, but I find it so interesting because when you meet someone or reconnect with someone or whatever it is in that absolute chaos, I think maybe it's easy to think, oh, this is a sweet

rebound moment or a nice distraction or whatever. But also maybe it's the moment you meet the love of your life. I don't know. I mean, it ended up being that. But if someone had come down and been like, that's the love of your life, I would have been like, oh, I hope not. I don't he's not doing very well like he was such a mess

so cute but he was like such a mess I don't know I barely kind of noticed it like I was like it seems sweet I just had too much else going on totally and then one night he was like you know when I went through my breakup like one of the things that was really great for me

was like kissing someone like when you realize you can kiss someone and i was like oh okay like it just felt so weird and inappropriate yes me i know i was like what and he was like i don't know just never mind you were wondering just thought that was like a helpful thing and i was like and then i realized like well i'm free to i guess like it feels too soon yeah but all right and so then that happened and then it was very weird we could say like I don't know, it's like the spirit of our daughter or something, which sounds weird when you're talking about kissing each other,

but something happened. You like felt something. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. Not just like, oh, that's sexy. Like, it was like kind of like an, oh, no, sort of feeling. Oh, God.

Yeah. Like, I'm not even going to get to have the slutty rebound sex. I know. I was like, well, there that goes. Yeah. It just was, it was very, I think also neither of us. were anywhere near ready for it. Yeah.

And I just didn't want it. But when it happens to you, it happens. Yeah. And it's weird because, you know, things are so clear in hindsight. Yeah. When I think about that, oh my God. By the way, in the absolute chaos, being like there could be no worse time. No.

Realizing that I loved my partner and being like, Oh, God, I have, there's no not trying to do this. Yeah. I've given myself every reason not to, and now I'm going to, I guess. Yeah. And I had a, not a spirit of a wise six-year-old, but what I had was like a, I felt like something passed through me, if that makes sense. Like I took a deep breath in a way I never had before.

Oh, that's interesting. And I went, uh-oh. Yeah. But thank God, because it was complicated and it was hard. And I think if I hadn't had that feeling that made me sit and be quiet, like you'd been on set with that man. Just wait. I was like, I'm just going to sit in my chair and I'm going to wait.

And I don't know why. Because I probably should run. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit here and I'm going to wait. I sat and I waited. And now I'm like, like, I'm too old to say I know what's forever and what the future holds but I'm like I've just I've never I've never taken a deep breath like this so yeah that's nice I Jason and I were talking the other day and I was like everybody's boring like people are great I love people I love meeting people talking to people but there's no like oh what would that

be like you know like isn't it weird when you're like I genuinely want to just hang out at home all I want to do I mean this is lovely it is by the way you know what I was about to say is I'm like what I would really love is for you two to come or we'll come yes then I'm like oh my god other people that are so happy at home I'm like do you want to hang out in my home or maybe we come to you exactly it's just that yeah we have to do that and I'm set otherwise I know I feel great like it's wild okay wait I love knowing because I adore him and you know I adore you yes and he adores you too oh my god he's just the most wonderful and I just think about you know We used to run around L.A. and go to auditions together when we were babies.

And so it's like I cherish him in that sweet childhood sort of energy. Yeah. But it's funny to know that you were like, not him. And that everything was a mess. Yeah. Because on the internet, you guys are a couple, you know, your couple goals, the hashtag, the thing. Oh, I hate it. Which is probably so annoying.

But it's also because it's really undeniable how lovely you both are. And you're lovely together. And you're just very genuine about all of it. I think how much you love each other and how silly life is. Yeah. How do you, do you try to ignore the internet or does it amuse you? I think it amuses Jason. Jason is more like online than I am.

It sort of freaks me out a little bit. It is funny because I think if that him from that period of time could see this, he would be so shocked he'd be like what is happening who's this guy like professing his love like he was really trying to be like cool single guy I know I know

it was really he did his best sweet it was a real journey sweet baby I know sweet baby but we were in couples therapy like three weeks after we met each other with the same therapist amazing yeah what did she say in our first session she figured out

that she was also seeing Jason and I was like oh well then I guess you can't be my therapist she was like ah she's like coming together let's see what happens I was like okay okay you're you have no boundaries oh my god amazing also I love you I wish my therapist had no boundaries I keep trying to get him to hang out with me and you won't and I'm like Trevor you're married to a woman I'm dating a woman it's so not weird like let's all go to lunch and he's like no it's not ethical and I'm like but why it's like we talk about our partners all the time and I want to like I don't know it feels weird that I don't know her and he's like it's not weird for me stop stop this is how it should be that is more normal I don't like it

that is more normal I mean my therapist was like bringing a shaman in now and again I'm not mad at it like I think we need the shaman for this issue as deeply nerdy about science as I am I'm also really into the mystical. It's like the pendulum really swings both ways for me. Yeah. I'm very into the mystical. Like I like it. We moved a little while ago to a new house and my organizer

made this box. She said, and I'm making a box that's going to be called mystic box. And I was like, oh, what? She was like, it's for all your mysticism items. And I was like, I don't think I have. And then I was like, oh, my God. Many an item. So many. And that's not even the crystals.

Oh, my God. And the tarot dicks and i have a good one for you oh do you i'm excited okay oh i'm excited and now a word from our sponsors that i really enjoy and i think you will too i love being in my 40s and i love what love feels like in my 40s and I love our world of even work in our 40s. What does it feel like for you? Like to be

here and so present and I don't know, are you kind of in love with your 40s too? I am. I think like a big surprise, not surprised but like if I'm being super honest, I love being a mother so much

and so a big part of my time I think in my 40s because I had my daughter when I was 41 and then I was like I just I want to do that again and I haven't been able to so that's taken up a lot of I guess I have not had as much appreciation from my 40s because I felt a little bit of a ticking lock on this thing that I think I'm starting to make peace with I have the greatest kid in the world just give everything to this little person yeah um so that's been the only kind of like um about that

but otherwise just feel I'm very grateful to be parenting at this age even though it's meant that another one hasn't been able to happen

because I just I know myself I know her I know her dad I love her dad like it's not a relationship where we're trying to figure things out or figure each other out

it's very calm right and I just and work has been so surprisingly wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. There's a... I never like to say a settled feeling because I always feel like using that word is so close to

settling down or settling. Yeah. You know? But it's like an ease. Like there's more of a rest in how it feels maybe to be in this stage. Very, very much. And I didn't think that was a thing I was capable of. Like, I remember that same boyfriend who helped me through my eating disorder, we like went on a vacation.

And I was sneaking away to the pay phone to call my agent because I knew, he was like, just relax. It's not time for work. And I was like, totally. And then I'd be like, does anything come in? Like, what happened with that audition? Like, I was so worried about what's next, what's next, what's going to happen. Yeah. And I couldn't imagine, even all through my 30s, I felt that so much.

Like, what's coming? How is it going to be received? what's the next job and you know I know part of that is being in a place where work has been easy for the last few years which I'm so grateful for but it's also just being happy yeah and when I go to work I'm like do I really want to leave my house do I really want to not be able to volunteer at school for a few weeks and not do drop off and not drive her home and hear about her day and everyone who's annoying her and everyone who she loves and, you know. Oh, it's so crazy.

We had a biting incident with one of Ashes' kids not doing it, having it done to them at school. And I was like, what is this feeling? What is this rage? What is this? Like, I will punt a small child if they don't stop doing this to this kid who is magic to me. And I was like, wow, this is, and I called a lot of my friends who have little kids.

And I was like, nobody told me about, like, the defensive rage part. One of my girlfriends goes, you know that adage about how a mom could pick up a car? Yeah. I was like, yep, ding, ding, ding. Yeah. Understood. Got it. That's what it is.

It's so true. The angriest I've ever seen Jason, I think, was we were in Atlanta. My daughter, like, met a little friend on the playground. He was a boy. He was like maybe 18 months older than her. He was maybe four and a half. She was like three. And he said to her, you just sit in the corner and I'm going to be playing.

And you just watch me playing. And she was like, I'll play. And he was like, no, no, no. You just watch. And I'm going to be. And so she sat there. And I was like, and Jason was like, get out. Like he was so, he didn't like yell at a child.

But he like, he was like, come on. Get out of there. Like, don't play with this kid. And I was like, you got to take it down a notch. But he was so furious that anybody would like tell our child to sit in the corner and just watch it. She was like, he was like, no. I was like, what a metaphor for the patriarchy, my God. Truly.

On the topic of saving the world, if you have to be stranded in the woods, and now this can be person or character with one of your yellow jackets castmates. Like back to the apocalypse question. Who are you picking to really help you survive? Or character? Gosh, they'd all be very, very good. I do feel like Christina is very practical. And she would be good in an emergency, I think.

I like that. Yeah. If you could reboot any classic 90s film or show and star in it, what would it be? I don't like that. Oh, I shouldn't say that when my husband's on a Matlock. I like that. You know what I think of that as is more of a. reimagining. It's a reimagining. Or perhaps even

a chapter two. Yeah, it's so different. It is. The Matlock is so different. And it's very fun and I'm obsessed with it. I am too. Do you have an answer for this? It's such a good question. I do. And the weird thing is it hit me this week.

Moonlighting. Oh, that's so good. Come on, right? See, my favorite show when I was maybe like 10 but that's not quite when was 30 something that was my favorite show

but I think that's late 80s that's okay it's close enough it was my favorite show oh I loved it and I also really loved LA law oh my God

LA law was so good so good yeah is there a good flashy legal we could be like sexy lawyers you know

I would like to play a lawyer I would too I never get to do stuff like that why I always have a shitty car. I'm always like in a plaid shirt or like mom jeans. It's because you are so emotionally

available as an actor that people are like, let us see her, let us see the darkness. And you're like, give me a, you want a power suit? I do. And a nice heel. I do. And to put some shitty lawyer named Zach in his place. I never have to wear heels at work. Okay. Never. Hollywood. I'm like, who do I address for this part? If you're listening. Hollywood. We'd like to do a law show. Thank you. Yeah, and you should be on it.

I love it. My dad still can't believe I'm not a lawyer. He's like, you just, he's like, you were made to argue on behalf of people. I'm like, you're not wrong. That is true. That is true. What's a role?

Well, this is always a funny question because I'm like, this came from one of our producers who's never had to audition for anything. What's a role that you turned down that you still think about? Well, I was never in a position to be. Well, like when people say, how do you choose your roles? You're like, I am auditioning trying to get a job. I know. I will say it's been a long time since I have auditioned, which I feel very grateful for.

Which feels correct. Because I'm bad at it. I hate it. I hate it. I think it's a separate skill. It is. And it's like, I'm never going to have the experience. I don't care who I'm reading with that I'm going to have with you in a scene.

Neither. When you surprise me with something you think. Yeah. Or, like, it's alchemy between two people. and the audition is inherently hollow because the other person isn't there. Yeah. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Yeah. Like a chemistry read I'm fine with. Same. Yeah. But just an audition. Uh-uh. And especially when they give you like all the crying scenes. And it's like 12 pages by tomorrow.

I know. Oh, my God. No, thank you. Yeah. Okay. I think this is a long list. But who has been the celebrity fan of yellow jackets that's just tickled you the most or surprised you the most?

Gosh It's really nice that it's been received So well God, I actually don't know I don't know why in my brain I have this vision of Meryl Streep Telling you how much she loves yellow jackets I don't know if it's happened

But I feel like it should It's not happened Okay Well in my brain that would be the really fun one for you That would be a really fun one I think it's true I think it's true I was at a party and Megan the Stallion was like, I love you.

And I said, I love you. And she goes, no, you don't. And I was like, do I do. Do I look that uncool? Like, yes, I do. I was like, I really genuinely do. She's so cool. She's so cool.

The fact that you said that, okay, we're officially now the Megan the Stallion fan club, means I have to tell you what happened. So this past year, Elton John does his big fundraiser during the Oscars to raise money for the AIDS Foundation. I went. I turn around and Megan the stallion is eight inches from my face floating by in this like marigold dress. She's so beautiful. And I go, she's so beautiful. It's like crazy. I lost control of my physical body and gasped that loud into her face. And I, and she turned and I went, sorry, I love you. And she goes, oh my God, girl, I love you. And I was like, not possible. And she was like, what? And her friend was like, no, she really like, she likes your show. And I was like, wait, what? And I was like, we have to take a picture. Nobody's going to believe me that this happened. And we took a picture. And then for the rest of the night, I'm like, she's just really a nice lady who probably is so nice to everyone who loves her and makes you feel like she knows you and loves you. And I saw her yesterday. And I walked into a room and she went, Sophia, hey girl. And I was like, oh my God, she meant it. So I'm telling you that. She's amazing.

It's true. She likes serialized television dramas and she meant it. Okay, she meant it. That's nice. She was very sweet. She's an icon. Yeah, I could not have been more awkward. And then I stood there for a minute and then I was like, can I get you a drink?

She was like, okay. There's no like buying, you know, you just get a drink. I can't be. She can get a drink. She's fine. She's like, thanks though. You're like, cool. Well, I don't know.

I was such a nerdy kid. like I don't know how to I can't be in those rooms I can't be around famous people and my best friend it's horrible and my best friend goes to things with me and she'll be like stop it you're being so weird you are also a famous person

and I'm like not like Megan the stallion like I can't I don't know why suddenly I lose the ability to be regular because I'm like well do I tell you about all the things I know that you've done that I think are great or is that awkward so then do I not tell you so then do I pretend that I don't know about you

So I feel like I become the, like, clown car version of myself. Yeah. It's not a good look for me. I'm sure it's very adorable. It's not great. But I know what you mean. Like, it's a really, it's very hard to know how to behave. Well, I can't wait to just start running and hiding behind you at a word.

Please. Please, yes. Because I'm the more awkward person. Perfect. Great. Stand in the corner. When you come out from behind me, you'll seem really collected. No. Really cool. I just, I'm going to take a page from the psychic and just be quiet.

That's all so weird. I know. You're just like, I've never felt more awkward in my life. But she was right. Well, and now you're friends with this man. I'm dying to know who it is. I can't ask whilst the world is listening. My dear, my favorite thing to ask,

people is and it can be personal or professional it can really be anything that comes to mind but right now for you in this lovely moment in your life what feels like your work in progress oh gosh there's there's so much I feel like I still am learning to accept good things It sounds a bit silly, but I had to admit that to myself the other day. Yeah. Like, you don't have to sort of struggle through something. You can ask for things to be better. You don't have to be better.

Well, this is, like, better than my wildest dreams. You know, it's just allowing yourself to want good things and good people around you. And, like, I don't know. I just sort of, it's so hard for me to accept positive things happening that there's a part of me that's like, well, that's enough then, that's good, thank you so much. I had, and then I was like, no, I want good things to keep happening and I... And to multiply. And yeah.

And so I think it's that. And then also just every day with my daughter, just trying to be a better parent to her and learn more about her. I love it. I mean, it's sort of interesting, right? You'd never want her to feel like she had a finite amount of good things. Oh, no. So. Yeah.

There's an interesting, like, re-parenting of yourself that happens. Yeah. It's kind of cool. It's amazing. And I remember Sarah Paulson said that to me years ago, who is one of my very wisest friends. And she always, like, she would be a therapist if she wasn't an actor. She just always has the most perfect thing.

And I remember being very anxious about doing something after work or something like that and feeling very guilty about being away from my child. And she pointed out to me that, you know, when you've had any kind of, like, neglect is a big word, but, you know, you felt sort of things missing in your life. you can really try to over-correct with your kids. And she said you have to understand that, like, having your own time and doing something for yourself is not neglect. It's very natural.

It's actually really good for her to see that. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I am kind of over-correcting. And she doesn't want a parent who's just like, well, I'm just going to be here with you whenever I'm not actively working for the household. You know, she's seeing her mom have a life. Yeah. Yeah.

And the thing is, the love you model with your spouse will teach her. Yeah. The love she sees you give yourself will teach her. The love she sees between you and your girlfriends will teach her. And I think it's really special to remember that, you know, if this is neutral and your upbringing felt like this much was in the red, you don't want to go that much farther into the green. Yeah. You want to get like just on the other side of the neutral in a way. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's full but easy. Yeah. And that's a really, that's a beautiful observation. Me. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me.

I love it. This was so fun. It's so fun. This is an I-Heart podcast.