Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Michelle Obama: The Conversation Continues…

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Michelle Obama reveals her TV guilty (and not so guilty) pleasures, her love of tennis, a good martini, motherhood and marriage. Listen to Michelle's podcast, IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Welcome back, everyone. Our conversation with Michelle Obama continues. I think your point about the fear, you know, it's so human to not want your children to hurt. And it's interesting, I've never talked about this, but you're illuminating something for me that in my adulthood, my mom and I have been healing because my mom went through a really, you know, my mom did not grow up the way I did. She did not have, you know, the life that I did. She went through, you know, immigration with her own mother, the classic beautiful Ellis Island story, but the reality was hard. And, you know, she lived in a housing project in the Bronx.

and sometimes had nothing to eat but a piece of bread and salt that she would make into a sandwich. And my mom had such fear about me suffering the way she suffered that there were ways she tried to protect me and it took a while for us to come back around for her to not understand

why I was doubting myself in this really important moment. And for us to unpack that I knew she loved me but I didn't always think she changed. trusted me. Yeah. And so I hadn't really learned how to trust myself. Yeah. And in that moment, we had this breakthrough as two women. And I learned about these things that happened in her childhood that she had shame about that she never wanted to tell me about because she never

wanted me to be scared that it would happen to us because come hell or high water, she wouldn't let it. And it was this moment where she saw me as more human. I saw her as more human. And we both we're like, whoa, you know, and then what will the next generation of children have because we have these tools? And I think there's such beauty in your willingness to share it, in the stories you've told us in the books, in the stories you're telling right now. Can I ask you a bit of a humorous question only because I am now lucky enough to not only love the best person in the world, but the best person in the world came with the two best kids in the world. And like toddler math is crazy, you know? And there are moments where I'm like, how do I, I am an actor. I can make up a

story, right? Like, how do I tell a story that is going to get this child to survive or sleep through the night or whatever? So if you don't mind me asking, now that they're grown-ish, like what's the craziest lie or tall tale you and Barack had to tell your kids to get them to do something when they were little. Oh, my goodness. That is a great question. Like, I don't know if there was a monster under the bed. You know, again, some of the, you know, Robinson wisdom was that our parents talked to us pretty straight about things. My kids will tell you, I am a notorious lecturer, right? Sometimes they'd be like, oh, my God, I'm in trouble. And we would, it's a sit down and you have a conversation about what happened what you know so a bedtime conversation would be uh first of all

you have to sleep in your bed because you can't sleep with me forever and none of us get any sleep so we all have to go to sleep you're right down the hall I know you're going to be scared but guess what you can get through I mean these are the kind of conversation. So I didn't tend to tell a tale. I actually talked about why it was important. And my mom always says this. Sometimes we don't give our kids credit for just really being able to hear the truth. And because sometimes that takes time. You know, there was often because I said so for sure. But I tended to try to explain why do we have to eat vegetables. I mean, you really do need fiber and roughage and you don't like it because your taste buds haven't but you have to take a

couple of bites you have to eat some of it and you're going to sit there until you do and i'm going to try to make vegetables that you like but part of dinner is the vegetable and if you don't eat the vegetable you don't get the dessert and then sticking with it so i tended to you know as my kids would say we would have conversations about everything because i I just assumed that if I really explained it, I gave my kids credit for being bright, not brighter than most, but I think all kids are really smart. And I think that they can understand, explain it at their age, their terms, their what have you, their way of seeing the world.

You know your kid better than anyone. You know what they know. You know how to talk to them. And I always felt, Barack and I always felt like we could talk to the girls and just explain the bigger picture because I think if they, I always felt like if they understood the context, then at least they could work with all the information, you know. I love that. So I love that.

I tended not to make up too much stuff, but I'm sure there's something that I'm just not remembering. Well, I'll have to check with Malie and Sasha and get back to you on that. Oh, I can't wait to hear if they have any stories. Well, and now that, you know, as you mentioned, they're in L.A., they're out having careers in the world. It must be so incredible to watch, you know, as a mom, these adults they've grown into. And I also bet being an empty nester is kind of fun because, like, you get to do whatever you want.

What is your 9 to 5? Who are you going to cocktails with? Like, I want to know what your life and your social life looks like right now. Man, it is whatever I want, Sophia. It's whatever I want. I love it for you so much. in my life that all of my choices are for me. But it's also a little scary because as a mom and a busy person,

I always had, it was somebody else's excuse. Why didn't I do this? Why haven't I gone there? Well, I have to make sure the girls are okay or my husband's president. So I can't do that. That's a good get out of jail free card. I'm so sorry I can't come. I'm married to the president.

Yeah, it's like so now, you know, I can't blame my, decisions and indecisions on anyone other than me. And I don't know about a lot of your listeners, but as a woman, I think if I'm honest with myself, I could have made a lot of these decisions years ago, but I didn't give myself that freedom, you know? I, you know, maybe I, maybe even as much as I let my kids live their own lives, I use their lives as an excuse for why I couldn't do something. And now that's gone. And so now I have to look at my, I get to look at my calendar, which I did this year, was a real big example of me, myself, looking at something that I was supposed to do, you know, without naming names. And I chose to do what was best for me. Not what I had

to do, not what I thought other people wanted me to do. And between you and me, that was an important test for me, just as a woman, as an independent person. Because like all women and a lot of people, I operate from guilt. What should I do? What is the best thing for everybody else, right? Because it's easier for me to say, well, I did this because it was what I was supposed to do, right? Yes. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors. my therapist gave me this trick that has really illuminated this for me because we were talking about stress and busy and this and that and I said you know and I need to do this and I need to do that and he said stop saying need to what do you want to do what do you do do you do do and how many

things that you actually want to do do you tell yourself you need to do that's right so you guilt yourself into doing them on time. Yeah. And that was like a woe for me. Yeah. Yeah. Is tennis one of your want-to-dos on your calendar this year? It is an absolute want-to-do because first of all, I don't want to do cardio. And, you know, I have just realized I don't like just straight cardio. But I love learning how to do something else, right? And I love getting cardio. I'm trying to figure out how to hit a two-handed backhand with top spin, right? The time goes by, right? And before you know it, I've sweat it for 90 minutes.

And I've had to unpack something. And I've been able to take my mind off of everything else other than watch that ball. Watch the ball. Hit it low, swing up, finish your swing, stay facing sideways. I mean, I just find that to be a bit meditative, right? So tennis is, look, right now, this point. podcast, IMO is what I want to do. It's not what I have to do. It's what I want to do. And I think a lot of this also has to do with me losing my mom this year. Right. And there's just, she was our last

elder, right? And now we're it. And me and Craig, my brother are looking at each other like, oh, okay, we ready for this? But I feel like it's time for me to make some big girl decisions about my life and to own it fully, right? Because if not now, when? What am I waiting for? What am I going to spend the next 20 years? You know, because, you know, the summers are, we're in summer countdown at 61, right? It's not so tragic, you know, if something happens to you and you're 80, right? Right. So, you know, now is the time for me to start asking myself these hard questions of who do I, who do I truly want to be every day? And that changes. So who do I want to have a lunch with? How long do I want to stay in a place? Do I want to travel? If a girlfriend

calls and says, let's go here, I can say yes. I can. And I'm trying, I'm trying to do that more and more. So what does it look like? It looks like whatever I want it to look like. And I still find time to, you know, give speeches, to be out there in the world, to work on projects. I still care about girls' education. You know, the library is opening in a year from now. Certain things I am and am not doing with the library. But the interesting thing is that when I say no, for the most part, people are like, I get it. And I'm okay. Right. And that's the thing that we, as women, I think we struggle with, like, disappointing people. Yeah.

You know, I mean, so much so that this year people were, you know, they couldn't even fathom that I was making a choice for myself, that they had to assume that my husband and I are divorcing. You know, that, this couldn't be a grown woman just making a set of decisions for herself, right? Right. But that's what, that's what society does to us. We start actually finally, like, going, what am I, what am I doing?

You know, who am I doing this for? And if it doesn't fit into the sort of stereotype of what people think we should do, then it gets labeled as something negative and horrible. Yeah. Well, there's always got to be drama if it doesn't look like other people's choices. Yeah, yeah. And I think for you, really for both of you, as a, you know, viewer from the outside, but a person who's been honored to know you for a long time,

I'm just like, God, look at them being happy. I love this. You're back and forth to Hawaii. Please, let my life be so dramatic on my 61st birthday. Can I just tell you, speaking of life choices and the irony is you reminded me of my own? You are telling so many amazing stories. You're producing so much beautiful content. The books are gorgeous.

I can't wait to come to the library. I will sob. You know this about me. And you will be like, it's not even your library. Calm down, but I will cry. But one of the things

that has tickled me and touched me so immensely in the last year is one of your many projects. It's the later daters. Oh my God. I have sobbed every episode. And let me tell you something.

It's because it takes what we should do and gives us what we could do. it is a story turning love on its head and I did the thing that we do as women and I did everything I was supposed to do for everybody else and I did the checklist that Steve Harvey told me to make and I showed up and I did the coaching

and I did the classes and I did the therapy and I built the life and I got to the end of the list and I was like I am so sad and miserable I'm going to exit my own life stage left and I'm going to start over and I was like can I do this at 40? Yeah. And then you're out here making the show about people in their elder years finding love. And I was like, we can do it anytime. And how fly are these people? I mean, they're amazing. They are just, you know, and full of confidence, especially the women. Yes. What made you want to do this? Well, you know, higher ground, our production company, you know, we are all things. You know, that's the whole point of storytelling is embracing all types of storytelling. not just sort of the tear-jerker serious kind of documentary things, which are very important.

We've done some amazing stuff in that category, but it's about touching everyone in every way. And unscripted programming is, it's an important genre now. Reality TV is a part of life, and I'm a fan of reality TV. And so it was very important for our company to reflect, not just my husband's, taste, but mine as well. But I said to our team, but there's a way that I want to do it, you know? Yeah. It's got to be about learning. It's got to be about adding value. And at my age, my friends who are not married, they are the later daters. And we spend a lot of time sitting around talking about how do you get back out there. What do you do, you know? And so I'm just so

pleased with the production team. We worked with the folks who create love on the spectrum and another Netflix unscripted show. And it's one of my favorites, that queer eye. So when I talked to my team about the kind of unscripted stuff that I love, you know, I wanted to walk away crying and feeling whole, right? I talked about queer eye. You know, those were the models. I talked about love on the spectrum. And I think that our team, you know, delivered with later daters. And it's such a fun show for everyone to watch me. I've sat around watching it with my girlfriends. I've sat around watching it with my girlfriends and their daughters. And it just, it just sparks the kind of conversation. And it reminds us that life goes on. We are, we, in our

50s and 60s plus, we are entering our best years. And I want women in particular to embrace that part of themselves. So I'm very excited. We're hoping that Netflix will renew it. We're in conversations now for what a second season is. So I will tell all the listeners, let Netflix know if you like it. It's up to them as to whether we do a second season. Yes. Okay, let's get the people listening to the podcast posting about this. That's a good side of social media.

Yes. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too. This is a perfect segue into a few rapids. fires, I want to ask you, what is, it can be a guilty pleasure or just a pleasurable TV show? Is it reality? Oh, oftentimes it is reality, you know, because when I go to TV, I just want to turn off. I am a, you know, well, white lotus is not reality, but I am a white lotuser. I am a real housewives person. I love the dating shows, you know. Okay. I don't. agree with them all, but, you know, I love to watch. My kids will have me watching the girls. What's

the one where they're all on in a, I'm forgetting the name of it, but I only watch it with them when the couples are on an island. Is it Love Island? Love Island. Yeah, where they have the British version and the American version. Yes. I watch that only with them because I'm as amused at their feedback and their commentary as I am with what's going on. Oh, that's so fun. So I'll go to reality TV. Okay. If, but I loved what was, this is my menopause brain,

uh, running point, the new basketball. Yes. So good. And what was the, the, the, the, the, the one about the, see, I'm so bad with names. It's okay. Nobody wants this. Fabulous.

And the resurgence of Adam Brody. I mean, our early-aughts boyfriend, that felt really, really nice for me, for sure. And I love shrinking, my favorite, favorite with Harrison Ford. That whole cast is amazing. I love that showrunner. I'm a Ted Lasso fan, too. Me too. So those are, that's the kind of, I need light.

and Barak and I we sometimes argue over what can we watch jointly because he likes death and darkness and then every I said you know you like the plots where everybody's sad and then they die you know

wait but this is like Ashland and I I want to watch a rom-com because I'm exhausted and all she wants to watch is murder date line documentaries about murder I'm like this is a trauma response I don't know what we're doing here I want to have a cocktail laugh while we watch TV. And I'm also

like a big HG TV fan because that's like my golf. Okay? Barack puts on golf like to have the sound off. If I just need the TV on, oh, I love... Home Renno. At home, Reno, I love all of them. Do you watch

In With the Old on HBO Max? No, I haven't seen that. Tell me about that. Oh, it is a home renovation show. But the whole thing is that in every episode they go to some different city in the country and you watch a couple, a family, parent and child renovate an old historic property? I've seen the previews. I have to watch one of those. I'm obsessed. Okay, all right. I'm obsessed

with it. Okay, we've stayed on TV for a beat. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay. Are you coffee or tea? Tea. Caffeinated or? Camamile in the morning. Every now and then, like, once a week, I'll do an espresso. Oh, oh, she spices it up a little bit. Every now and then. I'm not a big, I don't need caffeine. I don't, you know, what I will do is like if I'm doing a speech or I need to pick me up, I literally take a sip of a diet Dr. Pepper or a Diet Coke. I can't drink a whole one. So I don't need caffeine or sugar that much.

I don't find that I drag in the morning, you know, so I drink tea because it's, I put honey in it. And it's like, ooh, it's a little cheat. Yeah. That's that, that you don't need coffee in the morning. That's that Robinson motivation. Early alarm clock training. She's got it. I'm up.

What is your go-to cocktail or is it a glass of wine? Oh, vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives. Oh, olives. Very cold. My girl. Barely any vermouth. I love it. Very dry.

Barack introduced me to that drink. I didn't drink drinks until I started dating him and then he dated or, ordered a martini in one of our first dates. And I thought, ooh, so fancisticated. He's a man about town. No, a martini's also such a sexy date drink. It is. And it's so clean and I love the glass.

And the olives aren't bad if you're hungry. They're really not. It's nice to have a snack and a cocktail. Just before the pandemic started, I was on this trip. I went to Paris for a week with my best gay guy friend. And we were like having a time being like, oh, wouldn't it be cute if we were in love with each other? we are but not like that and we were having martinis and we were like should we move here this summer are we going to meet the loves of our lives in paris and then the world shut down and we were

like well well we'll always have paris like in the movies if there were to be a museum about you and your life what would the merch in the gift shop to be oh you know other than a nice martini shaker it would be well you know it's too soon, but there will be a gift book in our museum, especially from me, but it's too soon to announce it, but at some point we'll talk about it. But it would probably be something wearable, right? I mean, I'm a fashion girl, and I think that everybody would everybody loves a cute t-shirt that's kind of with a with a nice saying that was kind of cool and edgy you know that that was fitted you know it was yeah something that i would want to wear right yeah it'd probably be a t-shirt

speaking of speaking of the fashion girlies did you see that collab that mccaleen thomas did with marfa stance that jacket company oh yes i was like well i'm ordering myself two trench goats Good stuff. Okay. I want to talk to you forever. I also want you to go to the beach because you're doing whatever you want and you deserve it. Well, right now, I want to talk to you. Well, but this has just been absolutely lovely. Until I can take you for a martini somewhere we're in the same city,

I will let you go back to your day, but not before I get to ask you my favorite question to ask everyone who graces me with their own. time. As you look at the world ahead, the year ahead for you, what feels like your work in progress? Oh, for me personally? It can be personal, professional, anything you want. I think I'll stick with personal because right now that's what I think I have control over, right? And that's what the work is. It's me focusing on being the best me that I can be because when the world feels out of control when the problem seem big, as I've said in the light, the best thing is to go a little small and to start with what you can control. And for me, it's my health. It's my mental health. It's my choices, my decisions in life. I think I will continue to offer my advice, my direction to people. I will tell people to vote. I will express what I think when the time comes, but I've learned that I really can only control me. And if we all kind of do that,

control me, my orbit, the girls that I brought into the world, my daughters, helping them become amazing people who were thoughtful and empathetic and not afraid. You know, if we all just did that, we'd be in a good place. So I'm going to keep working on the me that is always the work progress because we are always still becoming and that won't change so yeah i mean that's the hope right if we if we stop becoming we're probably dying yeah yeah so how lucky are we to be on the adventure let's let's continue to be blessed to feel blessed and grateful for that and find our happiness and joy there um yes and not rely on things that are external that we don't have control over We've got to redefine what happiness is these days, right?

And I'm having a lot of those conversations with the young people in my life as well. It's like I think we've kind of gotten out of whack. And when Craig and I were growing up and your mom was growing up, happiness was you got ice cream, you know, every now and then, right? You got maybe one birthday party your entire life. We were happy because we got three toys at Christmas, you know, and we were happy. So I'm trying to teach my girls how to right-size their happiness and not to base it on external stuff and likes and influencing and money. It's steering us in the wrong direction. And it's not making us kinder and more.

empathetic. And I want to lead with that. And for the people in my orbit, I want them to practice that. So I got to keep working on it, too. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. Thanks for having me, babe. An absolute joy. It's so nice to see you too. Now you have to reciprocate. So you've got to come and hang out with me and Craig. Oh, my God, I'd love to. And make sure you're, we want listeners, want your folks to listen in and in questions and tell us what they think and you know if for no other reason they're making me happy because I get to talk to them so it keeps me connected so I'm looking forward to it oh well we can't wait we'll play we'll do more things all right indeed I'm here thanks so much thank you it's great to be with you

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