Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Mika Brzezinski

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Mika Brzezinski has been at the center of America’s political conversation for nearly two decades. She’s covered history-defining moments and propelled women of all stripes to Know their Value in the workplace and beyond.Now, she opens up about navigating relationships with both the Trump administration and her "Morning Joe" co-host/husband Joe Scarborough. Join the Know Your Value movement here and find out how you can register for the 30/50 Summit here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to this week's Work in Progress, friends. I know 2026 is off to a hell of a start. And a lot of us are wondering where to turn. Today's guest is someone I often turn to to help me make sense of what's going on in the world.

Her coverage is incredible. There's few journalists that have always. operated at the crossroads of influence scrutiny and national crisis quite like Mika Bresenski, co-host of Morning Joe, the long-running news program that is ripe with opinions about politics, policy, and people in power. Mika has been at the heart of the story for decades, from reporting at Ground Zero on September 11th to navigating a high-profile professional personal partnership to facing very intense scrutiny over engagement with certain powerful political figures. But she consistently sticks to her principles. She shows up and does the

work to defend democracy and to demonstrate her professional integrity while focusing on the issues she is most passionate about. One of her most impactful contributions in my mind and many others happens to be that she's turned her own battle with self-doubt into a movement for women called know your value. Know your value helps women reclaim power, redefine career timelines, and thrive on their own terms. And today, I'm going to ask Mika how she thinks we can do that as we hunker down for 2026 for the fight ahead out in the world and the battles we might be fighting at home. Let's dive in with Mika Bresenski. Hi, how are you? It's such a weird question these days, right? I know. It really is. I guess my answer is I feel blessed and I'm very concerned about everybody.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's a very interesting duality to live in. It is. It is. Well, let us dive in. Okay. Mika, it's so lovely to see you.

Thank you for taking the time to come on the show today. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. I'm thrilled. I always have the best time when I get to come on your show and it's fun to have you in my space now. Yes, here I am. I'm a little nervous, but I'm ready. We're easy-peasy over here. Obviously, there's a million wild things to talk about that have happened over the last week.

But before we sort of dive into the present and purpose and the good, the bad, and the ugly, I actually really like to go backwards with people because, you know, millions of people sit and watch you every day and have for years. and they know about your life and your career. But I always really wonder, when I sit down with people I admire, if you got to go back in time and interact with your younger self at eight or nine years old, would you see aspects of Mika as a little girl that are still present in you today? Yeah, I do. And I see some aspects that I wish I could have changed in my younger self. Maybe not as a little, little girl.

Absolutely. I was the daughter of refugees, two older brothers, and we were brought up to have goals and to contribute back to society to this great country that we are in. and I feel like I overcorrected on some of those things and would go back and tell myself to slow down, to do all those things, but much more slowly and to know what I know now. And that is that there's such a long runway in your life and career that rushing actually, it destroys the process and it creates um it actually it you miss the moment and so i look back at my younger self and i wish i could say hey you know what um you got to slow down and feel this and be here and take it all

in and be more mindful um it's sort of why one of the major components of the messages on my women's platform know your value is slow down it's a long runway and like the building blocks are are really important you can't like jump over three um so wo nelly um is what i would have said because i'm sort of born uh sort of uh wired to be always um accomplishing. And I think you can get in the way of yourself when you're constantly focused on accomplishing. You can get in the way of your joy or the sort of spontaneity that comes with. Or other people's joy. Ask my daughters. Tusha. They would tell you that. They would be like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. She's a lot. That's really interesting. But you know, I understand it. It's something.

I think when your parents come to a country, you know, you speak about your family being refugees. My dad immigrated here to go to university. And my mom's mother immigrated here when she was a young child. And the lore of coming here for the American dream is so strong. And I think what it gives you is such incredible grit and determination. And it makes you a service-minded person. and all of these wonderful things. But when you achieve or meet a goal,

and then the immediate question is what's next, sometimes you miss the moment to go, wow, I did this or I saw this, or I can stop for coffee with a friend today. Right, right. And I know how it happened, because when my parents came here, I mean, the family I grew up in,

my dad and my mom, speaking of Prasinski and Emily Benish-Brasinski, fleeing the worst of the worst, and coming to America with nothing. And so everything they did, everything was on the line every time. And there was no safety net. And there was no little bit extra saved here

or someone here to help you out. There was nobody. So their attitude was like, all hands on deck. let's keep going. We're so lucky to be here, but we've got to, we've got to build, we've got to create, we've got to make sure we build a framework for this. And so it was built into me that everything is on the line at all times. And actually, in this time, that is actually an important mindset to keep when you're looking at what is happening politically, which trust me, I'd love

a break from talking about. So I'm not veering into politics unless you want to. But my point is everything that happened is happening right now really matters and it's really serious in a way that I think many are still immune to or avoidant of. We're in it. And my parents taught me this is dead serious democracy. It's fragile and it's serious and it's based on values. It's based on beliefs, and it's based on everybody working toward the same thing and we're not there anymore. So they'd be heartbroken. But when they came here, and as they were bringing up me and my brothers, it was an all-hands-on-deck moment every day. And I get that.

I get that. And I know it even more now. I mean, it must, in a strange way, make you feel. for better or worse, like you know what you're in for right now. I think a lot of people, to your point about the disengagement or people that are still, for some reason, I can't make sense of saying, oh, well, it couldn't happen here. You know, it's happening here. And I think maybe because people have luckily known such relative safety or prosperity in America for so long,

they don't really remember where we come from. Correct. The ones that are still alive and old enough who say, this is exactly how it happened in the 1930s. They started with the stories, they started with the terminology, then they started with the deportations. It's happening, and I think for a lot of people, it's very hard to register that the boogeyman isn't a villain

who walks in the door. it's a whole system that builds on itself. Yeah. I agree with that, except I was just writing down a chronology here for you that is mixed into this. So we have people my age and older. I'm 58. My parents, for example.

I mean, obviously they grew up in and came here fleeing Hitler, understanding Soviet aggression and really seeing how difficult it is to build what it is that we have this democracy and to value it and contribute to it. My kids, perhaps you, you're younger than me. So as you talk about the loss of a sense of history in the younger generation, whether it's what's happening in our schools or technology, delivering stuff to us in morsels instead of complete books, that sense, that loss of our stories mixed with a generation that started their life at 9-11, financial crisis, school shootings,

becoming daily ritual, and COVID lockdowns, and now where we are today. this is a young population that has its own set of anxieties that we as parents who are saying don't forget our history please don't forget our history our lives depend on it our republic our country depends on it we're speaking to a young generation that's very anxious and has has their own set of experiences that I think lay into this very difficult landscape that we are in right now. I agree with that. That's an excellent point. Thank you.

Because I saw, of course, a meme yesterday that said, oh, look, millennials are on their 500th once-in-a-lifetime event. Right. And when you think about what that is for many of us, and then you think about the youth that are growing up after us, they this is almost all they know in a way yeah they've been told they have to just tamp the anxiety down and keep going so i think it can be hard to imagine that this is a time to ring the alarm bells because weren't so many other times that they've lived through as well yeah and i don't know if it's a desensitization and it might be a

you know, a combination and equation of all these things, but it really is fascinating to me. And I think about your perspective in particular, you know, a parent of teenagers, a refugee, you know, your dad becoming among all of the other incredible things that he did, President Carter's National Security Advisor. I mean, I can't imagine what the dinner table conversations in your house were like as a child. And I wish I could be a fly on the wall for the conversations you're having now with your own children. Do you think about that? The things you learned from your parents in that role and then the things you're now trying to teach your children from your own role as a trusted voice for the nation? Yeah. The household I grew up in was

absolutely fascinating. I mean, not only was my dad, a national security advisor, but my mom was a world-renowned sculptor, and she did these two-ton pieces using a chainsaw and massive tree trunks and they were shown around the world. And she had this massive studio in our house in McLean, Virginia. So it was always like art, politics, foreign policy, let's debate, go. at the table. Incredible. And multilingual, by the way, both my parents spoke three to four languages. My mother's mother spoke 11.

She served as a translator during World War II. So very kind of, I always kind of consider myself the runt of the pack, where my two brothers were very deep intellectuals. And I was, one's the Republican, one's a Democrat. So I was always the mediator in these family dinners. I'd find myself like cracking a joke at the right time to cut the tension or whatever it was. And then like look at Morning Joe. Here I am.

It's perfect. Yeah. The morning table discussions we have feel like my family dinner table discussions. And I felt that when Morning Joe started 20 years ago, almost, if you can believe it, I felt very at home. day one, five minutes in. I was like, huh, I found my home because this works for me. This is like what I've done. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too. And when you think about those things that the kind of middle, middle man, middle woman, you had to play in certain debates with family, you know, how it makes you comfortable on your show.

I would be failing as if I didn't acknowledge the fact that not only did you learn to listen to all people's perspectives, but you have traversed this role across a generation where things have really changed and then also not changed a lot for women like us. And I think about when you begin your career, you know, the more overt barriers for women in your industry and certainly in politics, And the ways that we've seen a kind of expansion of access for us and now an immense backlash to that. And, you know, these attempts at a retraction, how did you begin then when so many women were told no, asserting your authority in those spaces that men thought they should dominate? Well, I didn't do it or I didn't do it well. and it is exactly the reason I started Know Your Value about 18 years ago because I worked my butt off to make it in this business, started in local news, working overnights, working crazy hours. I worked every job in this business that one can have on camera, reporting, radio, TV, corresponding.

local news anchor, local news reporter, a magazine show, you name it, I've done it. And I noticed that every time I got a new job or signed a new contract or got fired and then started again somewhere, I didn't cut a very good deal for myself. I didn't even know my value. I had no idea how to argue it, I hired agents and that was not productive, actually, to have someone else speak for you. It's one of the biggest pieces of advice I give to women now is speak for yourself. No one is going to care more about you and your value and the value you need to bring home for your family than you. No one's going to articulate it better. No one but you.

And if you can't, you need to learn. And I struggled with this, and I cut so many bad deeds. I even cut a really bad deal for myself from Morning Joe. And I realized if I, we were just talking about my family and how incredible they are, multilingual, I mean, they pushed us to educate ourselves and to go to the finest institutions and to try and get the best grades. My brothers did me, not so much, but they pushed us to learn so much. And yet I couldn't speak for myself.

and yet I kept doing the same thing. I kept not being able to do what the guys did. And so my answer to you is I did not do a good job at this, and it was frustrating to me because I said to myself, my gosh, with all the support and education and incredible family legacy that I am so blessed to have, I can't do this for myself? My God, what is a woman who doesn't live in a major,

like New York or D.C. or L.A. or whatever, or even does, but it doesn't have the skills, doesn't have the education, maybe doesn't have the confidence, maybe doesn't have the support of the people, like a group that loves her and then supports her and loves her no matter what, you know, all those things that kind of build you. How do they do it? And the answer was the don't. And so I created Know Your Value to start talking about how you advocate for yourself, what that looks like, what that feels like, what that dresses like, what that eye contact is like, what those words are about you, and why you should use them all the time. And I remember when I first created this and I started doing events, I noticed it honestly looked like a light bulb

was going off in the women's minds and the audiences around me. And they were young women, older women, women who were very successful, women who had not had a job yet, women who were trying to get back in, women's of all shape, sizes, backgrounds. And they all were like, yes, I need to know this. Even despite that some of them had actually made it to a certain level in their career, like I had. And it started a conversation that's really grown into a global network of events, conversations, and sort of mutual support in the know-your-value community so that we can kind of empower each other to step up for ourselves. Yes, it's so important.

And in every industry, in every vertical, I spoke about this recently with Vivian 2, who you probably know from Instagram as your rich BFF. She's giving all the young women financial advice. And I said, listen, you know, you talk about these zones of privilege, right? These cities where you can pursue a big career. I'd been on TV for 20 years before I was paid equally to my male co-star. 20 years. That's a long time, Sophia.

And it was a fight to get what I was worth. And I had to have the conversation to shocked faces of people in power that said, if you're going to reserve twice the salary for a yet unpicked man to play my co-star, yeah, it's a problem. Why aren't our salaries going to be the same? And because it wasn't, oh, well, we got so-and-so and he's, I don't know, won an Oscar or something. Like it wasn't that conversation. It was, well, we don't know who he is, but he's a man, so.

Right. And it really taught me, you know, ever since that experience, as much as, all the women in my life have advocated for each other and tried to advise each other. That experience for me made me the person that says, let me print my contract out for you. Let me get you the points in my deal memo. Let's figure out. And now every woman I know shares where I'm at, what I'm getting, how I got there. What should I be asking for?

I love it. And it really, it changes our lives. And the men have always been encouraged to do this. But there's something I think that's so societal. And I want to, I don't want to tread lightly, but I want to be careful because my fear is that if you undo certain aspects that I think are good for us, you know, prioritizing others, dedicating yourself to service. We don't need a society where we care about each other less. Just look at us now. Yeah. But women, you know, an author that I know wrote this in a book and said,

the greatest compliment we give women as we say, she's so selfless. So she is without self. And I will never forget reading it and thinking, oh, I will never again compliment a woman I admire and say, God, she's just so selfless in X arena. I say, I really admire her commitment to service in X arena. I really admire her fight for justice in X arena. I will never call a woman selfless again because I don't want us to be encouraged even subconsciously to erase ourselves. Yes. I do.

And I'm trying to think if I've ever heard of a man being described as selfless. So, I mean, yeah, that's kind of interesting. Yeah. He's powerful. He's tenacious. Right. And not to undermine, like I learned some of my best skills on self-advocating from men. They're encouraged to do it and they naturally do it.

And I want us to naturally understand how to do it too and not. Yes. You know, I have found that this, my industry is full of really supportive men who also cut really good deals for themselves. And there's things to be learned from. So I, again, in the community that I've built, I try and talk about the part of the equation that we can control. You know, the part where we need to come to the table for ourselves, step up and say it. and how do you practice that? Lift up other women.

Help them. I mean, there are tons of different situations I can think of in the past 20 years where there was maybe a woman I worked with who was struggling with getting a new contract. And I would pick up the phone and negotiate for her in front of her and like show her how it's done. And it's good practice. I'm like, I'll do it for you because I want to show you, first of all, how naturally it needs to come. I want to show you your value that I would do this for you. I will, I'll find a way to invest in you if necessary.

Let me show you in any way I can. And you find that you can use these opportunities when you're lifting up other women to practice your own skills on self-advocating. Like I get very irate on behalf of other women. Yes. And really get in there and get my hands dirty. No one's, you know, going to fire me for sticking up for someone. And if you are, I don't want to work for you. Well, that part.

You know, we've done it like both Joe and I for people on our team. Like, we just get in there. And we don't give up on people. And then that sort of makes them spread, you know, pay it forward. And for me, especially with younger women, it's about showing how it's done. in the beginning of know your value, it was almost like a permission structure. Women were so shocked to hear that this was something they could do and should do. I mean, I literally, I was like light bulbs going off and we were in bad shape.

I think we're in better shape now. And now the setbacks are coming from our political situation. Yes. And, you know, on the legal front, I think we're women are, are practically under attack. And so we have different challenges. But in in in terms of professional development, we were making some really good headway. Yes. Well, I think that's part of the reason that you see the backlash in the political system. You know, it's not lost on me that we're talking about major gains for women in 1973, 1974, the 1980s in the 1980s in terms of reproductive autonomy,

being able to sign a lease without a man, being able to get a small business loan without a man, you know, these are within one generation. And I think this momentum women have chosen to build with each other, organizations like yours, advocacy like we all do, is very scary to the old power structures and they go, uh-oh, we've let them in and look what they're doing and they're moving very quickly. And so they want to take away from us anywhere they can. And my sincerest hope is that, to your point, the good guys among us help us fight that fight too, not just in our negotiations, but also in our voting booths, you know, also in our legislative systems. We need that so, so much. Yeah. No, I'm very concerned about my daughters, futures, their lives, their children

someday. I'm, you know, they don't have the rights that I grew up with. That's crazy. It's crazy. where we are. And now for our sponsors. I think about how relevant all of this is, you know, to both work and home for you. Because you and Joe have been doing this show together since 2007, you know, in the, in the course of this career, a personal relationship blossomed. This is your life. This is your family. You know, he is clearly a wonderful support.

support system for you, as you've said, he's a great ally for other women in your workplace. But I'm really curious in this big life you've built, when you reflect on it so far, what do you think made him and makes him such a great match for you on and off the air? Wow. Well, first of all, I think he's just on a professional. This is the easier part. I think he's literally the most talented man on television in the world of political analysis and news. Name one who comes close and I've always felt that way. And I felt like when we met and when the show started, we both sort of were better together than we were doing our separate shows that we did alone. and it was a lot of people said to me,

oh, how long have you guys known each other? And I was like, I met him an hour ago or yesterday. You know, I mean, like, I don't know what you're talking about. And so that came first where everyone was sort of like having this reaction to how we were. We were so natural together on the air. And he is literally the kindest person. person I will ever know. He comes across so confident and people, I think, tend to think things come easy for him.

And I see what he does to lift people up. Every single person on our show, when we started Morning Joe, and this reflects in his life as well, he is always making sure that he puts the person, he's speaking with or the people he has on the show or the person he's introducing to or someone in his, above himself. And he's always in service of others. And he does it so well that people don't even know it's happening. I can't tell you how many careers he's revived, including, quite frankly, when we started our show, a lot of us were like, where do we all come from? We all, well, yeah, all left or been moved out of different slots and different jobs.

And we all ended up, if you look at like Morning Joe 19, 20 years ago, it was like Joe knew how to make a symphony work. And this symphony of conversation of positive, civil, idealistic, hopeful conversation that also includes political prognostication. and he's able to move everyone forward, challenging them every step of the way in a gentle enough way that their best comes out. And he does that in his personal life and with his family as well. He's always bringing the best out in people. And the only thing I'll say is the part that I can't explain is that we're together 24 hours a day.

And we're just so happy. And that's, I don't really know what that's about. Yeah. But when you find that, you know, you cherish it. Of course. It's not, I can't really say, like, he brings me ice cream. I don't know what it is, but it's just we're always together. I can, I'll have him come in and say hi.

Aw. Wait, but he won't, oh, but he won't have headphones. Come say hi to Sophia. Behind that wall. Oh, I love it. You know, I think after a couple of years or 20, you might be like, I need a little space. That's just not how we are. It's a little weird, we'll say.

People are like, how do you do this? Are you together 24-7? And we're both like, yeah, okay. And that's how we like it. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's something really incredible about that sort of lightning rod experience when you are an adult. And suddenly you realize like, oh, it's, it's you.

Wait, what? And I don't know. I've now come across enough couples who've had the experience and you just go, oh, this is something. And then, yeah, you don't want to waste a minute. And I think that's very cool. I am curious for you to, because, I mean, you just, you know, waxed poetically about your connection.

how do you figure out, did you have to set ground rules for how you would manage disagreements or differences of opinion over stories or at work? Or has it always just felt like even when you don't agree, you can understand each other? So Sophia's asking how we manage disagreements, especially on the show. Or does it just, I'm going to give him an headphone. Can I do that? Yeah, give him an AirPod. I love it. And say hi. I was just talking about how we're together 24-7. This is so fun. By the way, you just got a belated holiday gift in the way that this woman is talking about you, too.

It's so sweet. It makes me want to cry. It's really something, and we do spend so much time together. And we do manage disagreements pretty well. But the way we manage our disagreements are by being very... straightforward with each other. Yeah. It's very sacred. And I let her win.

Best of the time. Happy wife, happy life, honey. Happy wife, happy life. No, you know, the funny thing is that we balance each other out very well. I think in the past, we were both a bit more passive, aggressive before we met each other. And that we'd say, well, let's just keep the peace and let's sweep up. everything under the carpet. And so when we met each other, we were just very straightforward.

And it's very easy to say, you know, hey, we never go to bed, angry when you fight all day. We don't fight all day now. But if there are any problems, we get it right out of the open. But we have such a trust in each other that we have each other's best interest in heart. that helps. But sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it hurts really bad. I'm a musician and I write songs because I've been doing it since I was 14 years old. You didn't tell her this, did you? I did not know that? Oh, good. You have to go on Spotify and look up Joe Scarborough. So good, Sophia. I have been living under a rock. So Mika is my biggest fan and biggest supporter. And she

pushes me. But sometimes, very rarely like this past weekend, I'll play a song for and I'll go, what do you think? And I think it was Sunday. She listened to the song and I'm thinking, she's going to really love this one. Head and hands at the end. She goes, what am I supposed to do?

I said, just tell the truth. Sweetie, just tell the truth like you always do. She goes, it's awful. But, you know, in person, be like, you're like, wait, what? She doesn't know what she's talking about. But then again, because we trust each other so much

and then I'm spending the rest of the day going okay how do I need to rearrange that and that's it helps it always helps to have that person that can tell you no that you know is in your corner you know well and I was saying this to Mika

before you came in I think there's something really there's something so special about your life and the future it sets up for you when you have that you know settled adult experience and suddenly this person who sits in front of you all day, you go like, wait a second, it's you? Oh my God. And there's, I don't know, you, you already had so much under your belt in your

rhythm and it's, it's really cool to see you guys. And I like getting this moment with you too, because I love coming on the show and being like, well, the thing about democracy, but this is also really fun. Yeah, no, we are extraordinarily blessed and we know it every day. We wake up, I will tell you we wake up at 4.30 every morning. And at 4.30 every morning, we go, oh, my God. We have to do this. And then at 431, we're like, okay, we're grateful. We have a job. Yeah. We're together. And yeah, so we're blessed. Very, very blessed. Yeah. It's great to see you. I'll give you. Go. All right. Thank you, sweetie. Okay. So sweet. He is sweet. So good to see you. She says you're sweet.

And a hunch. I love a little drive-by drop-in. It's so lovely. You know, something I'm really curious about sort of expanding on this. And I know people want to know about it now. And I think about it in terms of you have commitments as journalists. You have personal opinions. You have a, sometimes a requirement that you leave your opinions at the door. to do your jobs. You know each other's opinions more intimately than most because you're married. Yeah. When you come up against a moment, like the big explosive thing, where, you know, you've both been incredibly vocal critics of our current president and his administration, rightfully so. But in 2024, you went to Mara Lago to meet with him. People were very upset. I'm not going to lie, you know, as your friend and sometimes guessed, I was like, what are they doing? And then I was like, oh, right, journalism.

That's, yeah, calm down, Sophia. And I, and I've thought about you guys a lot since then because you signed up to inform the public. And sometimes that means putting your personal opinion aside. And the internet is hot and angry all the time. But, you know, now it's 2026. and I think we're far enough past it. I'm curious how it felt for you. You know, everybody wants to know if you were chastised enough

or some people will say, well, what did you expect? But I'm less curious about the Internet's opinions and more curious about how you figure out how to be a human with feelings and also do your job. Well, that's kind of a daily challenge because every day there's a new challenge. something new that is that we have to address. It's such a difficult time.

And the reaction to the meeting that we had and quite frankly, ongoing conversations that we're having is, I guess, painful because I don't know what, you know, I don't think the solution is not talking. So that'll never be a Morning Joe solution to like cut off yourself from people who are in power to try and understand what's going on to help move the conversation in any way we can in a positive direction that brings smart. voices to the table that help understand what's happening, but also say what it is.

Right. All of that involves doing your job and making calls and meeting with people. And so, you know, it is something that would do again and I would do again tomorrow. Right. The one thing that I think that we and me especially, I realized when this past election and Trump won, I don't know how many times I can light my hair on fire and tell people that when he says he's going to do something, he means it. And it's been very frustrating and hard to communicate and hard to sort of distill, which is, you know, our job, it's sort of like help people understand what is going on. Joe is really good at prognosticating in politics. We all bring different expertise to the table. But the one part that has been frustrating is the, and this people on all political backgrounds, all sides of the aisle, both sides of the aisle are, I think, guilty of, of saying, well, he doesn't really mean it.

I mean, I can't tell you how many people I spoke to who definitely. understood the concerns of another Trump presidency, who were experts on our show and off our show with deep knowledge of history. And this is what they do. They study this. Who did not think that he was serious about retribution. Who did not think he was serious about tariffs. I know there are a lot of Trump voters that I spoke to myself in the state of Florida, for example. when prices for a service jumped 60% and you'd ask why and they'd say, well, you know, the tariffs, and I'd be like, but you voted for him. And now this is happening to your business.

And the Trump voter would say, well, I didn't think he was serious about it. And I'm just thinking to myself, this is the part of this that I'm still working through. And I invite help on understanding. Because I grew up in a very realistic family that is like, thinks the worst first and prepares for the worst. And when someone tells you who they are, my job is to believe them. Yeah. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. It's really interesting.

You know, the entirety of what you just said gives me a few thoughts. So I'm going to try to make sure I get them all out. one being, I really thought about this for the two of you. And it did shape and shift, you know, even some of my maybe unconscious thoughts about journalists when I saw him starting to ban journalists from the White House, ban the AP, welcome conspiracy theorist bloggers. And I was going, oh my God, we have to have our journalists, our real true journalists there everywhere all the time. you know, thank you for doing your job no matter what. And then when you say the second piece about why people don't take him seriously,

I feel the same way as you, Mika. It makes me crazy for a decade. So many of us feel like we've been screaming into the void, warning about what's coming. And the sort of duality I sit with and the way I try to talk to people who might be coming around to reality, or who also want to talk about it is, you know, I think we're in a strange, it's like riding a seesaw. Yeah.

Because so many of the things he says are so unhinged that you think someone's going to stop him, but no one will. No, no, it's, no one's coming, Sophia. No one's coming. Because he loves retribution and everyone's afraid. And it's this, the duality I see is on one hand. You can't be afraid. Yes. I will never be afraid.

I will not do it. And me neither. And I think that's why so many women and you see women in leadership in Congress and the Senate who aren't afraid, but a lot of these men are running with their tails between their legs. Yeah, I know. But what strikes me is on the one hand, he runs his companies, his failing companies, his fraudulent companies, like organized crime syndicates. He always has, has always said what he? means, said disgusting things about people, barred black people from his buildings. He has always done these things. Out in the open, by the way, you know, been charged over and over again, had to pay

settlements over and over again. He's the most indicted, I mean, political leader, I think, ever. And on the other hand, he's this gruff, not well-spoken, sort of blubbering guy from a reality show. and I think people think of him like a cartoon villain more than they think of him as a serious person. So everyone assumes like, ah, that guy's kind of joking. He talks a big talk, but it makes me think of what President Obama said years ago.

The presidency does not make you the man or person you are. It reveals what kind of person you are. And so we've given someone with, these mafioso tendencies, keys to the castle. And now we're watching him and his friends pillage the world and the economies and our resources and destroy the rights of women because we stand up to him. And it's tough. Yeah, I will say that I think of me before the election, this past presidential election and me after.

I was like on late shows, on The View, I was going out everywhere. I think I was screaming, actually, warning people about this. I mean, I put myself out there and felt as invalidated, I guess, as anyone else who, you know, does what we do, felt when he won the election. And but I also, I never didn't take him seriously. I knew what was coming. And it is painful to be covering some of the things that we are witnessing that is happening to our fellow people, these ice raids and different ways that people are being marginalized and hurt in these deportations. how it's impacting the media, my former employer CBS and other places.

I mean, this is all incredibly painful to watch. And I've been realizing that this is a whole new beginning. I got to gird up and there's no, there's no like pulling back and resting or going part-time or doing anything like that at this point in my life. The only thing I can do is go to work and stay centered and stay focused. And try not to lose it because that's losing. Not going to be afraid, not going to be afraid to use my voice, not going to be afraid to engage at the same time, to learn as much as I can, and to try and bring the best information

I can to anyone who wants to hear it in a very polarized media landscape. It is a daily set of decisions. Yeah. Well, and a daily practice, I imagine. Every day is different. Yes, but listening to you talk and get impassioned. It's the same sort of passion I heard in your voice talking about encouraging women to know their worth. And in a way, it strikes me that what you're saying is you know your worth and you know the value of good, honest communication that speaks. truth to power in a moment like this. And I know I speak for a lot of us when I say we're very,

very grateful that we have you in the fight and, you know, that you don't succumb to the pressure or the fear that they are trying to instill in so many people. Yeah, well, it's hard. I'm not going to say, you know, it's not, uh, this is hard. This is hard, but it's not impossible because this is the United States of America. That part. And you know, it's interesting. That's not funny, but it almost, the passion for it charms me in a way because you made me giggle recently. You were asked about, you know, the things you get to do as a professional in your 50s.

And you said, well, now I get to say, fuck it. I couldn't say that before. And do you feel a little bit of fucking energy right now? Like, I think you have to to stay in the fight, right? I will say that that is the only way to go. It's the only way to go. You absolutely, let me just say that we talk a lot about the Republicans who won't hold the line. And I feel like one of the major lines where they could have held it was January 6th.

And they, the bed. Because that was honestly the opportunity to draw the line. And everything else that has happened since is because they didn't on that. That was simple. That was simple. And they failed us. and for me it's like now none of us have a choice but to hold a line

to have the fuck it's like you said and to drive forward and to not be afraid let me tell you being afraid or what these Republicans are doing it will not serve them well it will it will be horrible for them in history in the history books but probably before one thing we know about Donald Trump is if if he senses that you're afraid, you're done.

You're done. So you have no choice but to have that. And that's what I mean by sort of every day is different because you don't know what's going to happen. It's very unpredictable. But that we all knew was coming when he won. Anyone who's surprised about what is going on now was not listening during the election, during his first term, during his, he, campaigned out in the open and everything that is happening, he absolutely told us was going to happen.

So don't, I, I, you know, you're not going to see me being shocked. Yeah. Ever. How do you, how do you think about the midterms coming up this year? Are there stories you're paying attention to? Are you watching what the pollsters are saying or are you just head down doing the work, not paying attention to any of the noise? I'm very concerned about the midterms on a number of levels, and I'm watching everything around election security, claims of fraud, how potentially this could be dragged out. So there's uncertainty. What different ways Republicans with nefarious intentions could take advantage of our great.

country and our system of laws and elections. And I'm hopeful, but I am eyes wide open about how we move forward. And I urge everybody to plan their vote and to think about their vote and to think about the midterms now. And don't forget and spread the word and do what you think is right for this country. If you don't like what you see is happening, it is our last best hope at expressing ourselves. And I hope that Americans are inspired by their opportunity to cast their vote and say how they feel. Me too. Me too. Well, I should say thank you so much for being such an amazing supporter. If I am a voter all these years, it means a lot to us. Oh, I love I am a voter. And I have my I'm a voter suitcase, my eye on a voter boots. I'm a fan. We love you. Thank you. You know, I agree with you.

I think it's important to remind people that that is a great way to mobilize. You know, if I had it my way, we would have a no Kings March every Saturday until that man was out of office. But I also know that a lot of people don't have the timer resources to stop their lives every week. But to plan the day, the stoppage that you go and make your voice hard. heard in the booth is one of the most important things a person can do. And also a lot of people voted for him. And don't close yourself off from connecting. And don't judge. I think that, you know, the way we come together as a country and as a people and the way that we perhaps spark positive change is, you know, have an open mind.

A lot of people who voted for Donald Trump had their reasons. And I think there's always the danger in judging people. And I urge people to try and understand each other to really listen. And you don't have to agree. Just listen, hear each other out. That will help. We don't have to fight. But I think not talking is just as bad as fighting.

Yeah. And, you know, I understand that everyone has their own experiences and their own thresholds, but I will say, I've got an old friend, we don't see eye to eye, we've taken breaks over some of the knockdown dragouts we've had over where we don't see eye to eye. And when a lot of people said, like, let it go. Just let it go. I said, I don't, if I give up on someone I've known for 20 years, how am I ever going to get along with a stranger, you know?

Clay, yes, don't give up on each other. Yeah, and I said it to her, and we've done a lot of work. And it's been really formative for us both. And recently, she has said some things that have meant the world to me and really made me say, like, this is why I didn't want to give up. And I think at your own pace, in your own time, but the only way we're going to get through this is if we start to remember that what goes on in your house doesn't have to go on in your neighbor's house but your neighbors and you better start acting like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm curious for you. You know, it's a, it's a big year and I know it's an enormous sort of world and timeline to look out on for all of us certainly, but especially for you as a journalist. So it doesn't have to be professional. You know, we've we've talked about a lot. of that, but maybe it is. I just wonder as you look to 2026, what for you, professional or personal, feels like your work in progress? Oh, that would hands down be the 3050 summit in Abu Dhabi on International Women's Day. It's so cool, Mika. It's so cool. This summit is absolutely remarkable on every year it gets it enriches and it becomes more multi-dimensional and I am blown away by it I literally just find myself at a loss gasping at a loss of words when it comes to

the energy the feedback and the value that women from around the world are getting out of this event and this is the partnership I have with Forbes and my platform Know Your Value. We start in New York celebrating the 50 over 50 honorees from the United States, but then the 30-50 summit in Abu Dhabi, every international women's day, it's a three-day event, three-and-a-half-day event. And it's in our fifth year, it is a cross-cultural, multi-generational mentoring summit. And we had women from 49 countries last year. Every year it grows.

We have the most incredible connections made, the most incredible messages and lessons that we teach women in the region and women from around the world. And we share ideas and experiences and we invest in one another. And I have found that every year, there are several, like, blow my mind stories of what happens there, whether it's belief. Jean King, Gloria Steinem, Hillary Clinton, and Olena Zelenska on stage together, talking about soft and hard power and women in the world. Or it's two women who I gave just by surprise, free tickets on the Kelly Clarkson show with a certain eyeglass company who started Vontel Eyewear

and they brought their selfie sticks and were dancing on stage at the Louvre. in Abu Dhabi, and they are telling me that they just got a major investment because of who they met at the summit at one of the networking sessions. And I'll end by saying, I knew I was on to something two events ago where I was in the elevator and there was like a 22-year-old young woman in the elevator. And she was like, this elevator has to go faster. And I was like, are you okay? She's like, I just, I have to get to networking. I have to get to the networking session. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, that's amazing because networking is like a bad word.

Like, nobody wants to go to a networking thing. And she was like, I have to be there. But the networking is amazing. And it's fun. And it's like very, the payoff is incredible. Everybody walks away, if not with like an actual job or an investment with like such an incredible new lease on their life, as to how they're going to drive forward.

So I'm always working toward that. That is my sort of work in progress every year. I want to build it not necessarily bigger, but deeper and more valuable and more special and add more value for the region where we visit and bring together this incredible collection of ideas, voices, shapes, sizes, ages. I love that. It's beautiful. That's what we need more of in the world for sure. I just, I'm ready for the women to be in charge of everything. So we are. You tell me where in when to be. I'm in. Yay! You should come again. I want you there. Oh, well, thank you so much. Thank you for taking your time today. I just, I adore you and I really appreciate all of your thoughts and insight and everything that you're doing for us out there in the world.

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.